How can Lord Chaitanya have initiated Saint Tukaram when they lived at different times?

by April 21, 2012

From: abhaycharan das

SP says in introduction of SB that Lord CM  initiated Saint Tukaram . But LCM appeared 500 yrs ago, and it is said Saint Tukaram was there, 300 yrs ago. How  to reconcile these two facts?

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  • Chaitanya Charan das
    April 24, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Comment received through email by H G Vrindavan Pr, author of the book Sant Tukaram:

    Dear Chaitanya Charan Pr.

    Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Guru and Gouranga.

    Wonderful philosophical explanation. Here are some additions

    You can read in my book Sant Tukaram on page 100 how Sant Tukaram is initiated.
    Lord Krishna hears his sincere prayers to accept him as disciple. At that time Lord Krishna is thinking Tukaram does not belive in Advait philosophy so he is not going to accept anyone as Guru who is advaitvadi. So Lord Krishna appears to Tukaram in Dream and initiates him.

    Sant Tukaram writes “Maniyela swapni gurucha updesh dharila viswas drudh mani.”
    and what was that dream he explains.
    And another abhanga Sant Tukaram says ” Mazya Vithobacha kaisa prembhav aapanachi dev hoy Guru ” means My Lord Vithal is so loving He becomes my own Guru. That is Lord Krishna who appeared as Lord chaitanya and initiated many devotees in various ways( as you have nicely explained) through his siksha and became Guru of many disciples.
    “Jive daya name ruchi vaishnava seva ” is the basic of Lord Chaitanya’s teachings which we see preached by Sant Tukaram in his abhangas.

    Thank you very much.

    Your servant

    Vrindavan das

  • Ravikant Jagtap
    July 21, 2013 at 10:47 pm

    Srila Prabhupada mentioned in Teachings of Lord Chaitanya (In Introduction of Lord Chaitanya) about Tukaram Maharaj as follows:
    “On the banks of bhima he spiritualized one tukaram, who became a religious preacher. This fact has been admitted in his abhangas which has been collected in volumes by Mr. Stayendra tagore of Bombay civil service”
    Lord Chaitanya enacted His pastimes in this world from 1486 to 1534 and Tukaram maharaj was present from 1608 to 1650 (there are some differences in opinion about date of birth of Tukaram maharaj amongst historians).
    One has to understand that Lord and His devotees cannot be bound in time and space.
    Tukaram maharaj in his abhangas explain about his sampraday which is as follows…….
    Satygururaye Krupa maj keli,
    Pari Nahi Ghadli seva kahi ||1||
    Sapadvile vate jaata gangasnana,
    Mastaki to jana thevila kar||2||
    Bhojana maagti tup pavsher,
    Padila visar swapnamaji||3||
    Kaahi kale upajala antaray,
    Mhanoniya kaay tvara zali||4||
    Raghav Chaitanya Keshav Chaitanya,
    Sangitali khun malikechi||5||
    Babaji apale sangitale naam,
    Mantra dila Ram Krishna Hari||6||
    Maagh shuddha Dashami pahuni Guruvar,
    Kela angikar Tuka mhane||7||

    From: Guruparampara Abhang

    But we may not find any clear connection with brahma gaudiya sampradaya from his abhanga.
    It is also accepted in his biographies written by different scholars that Tukaram maharaj came back from vaikunta to initiate a disciple named Sant Niloba.
    By another abhanga written by this disciple of Tukaram maharaj which is as follows
    Mukhya mahavishnu chaitanyache mul,
    Sampraday fal tethuniya||1||
    Hansrupi bramha updeshi srihari,
    Chatushloki chari bhagavat||2||
    Te guj vidhata saange naaradaashi,
    Naarade vyasashi updeshile||3||
    Raghav chaitanya kele anushthan,
    Tyashi dvaipayane krupa keli||4||
    Krupa karuni hast theviyela shiri,
    Bodh to antari thasaavila||5||
    Raghava charani keshav sharan,
    Babajisi purn krupa tyachi||6||
    Babaji swapni yeuni tukayaala,
    Anugrah dila nij priti||7||
    Jagadguru tuka avatar naamyacha,
    Saampradaay sakalacha yethuniya||8||
    Nila mhane maj updesh kela,
    Saampraday dila sakal janaa||9||

    From Nilobaray Gatha
    Abhang no. 884

    Here we find a clear indication of his connection with brahma gaudiya sampradya. Sant Niloba and Tukaram maharaj were from sampraday which is popularly known as Chaitanya sampradya in maharashtra.
    Varakari sampradya recognized in many parts of maharashtra was started by sant Gyanehwar maharaj and this sampradya accepts tukaram maharaj as prominent acharya and a great devotee of Lord Panduranga.
    Even many followers of Tukaram maharaj accept this fact that Tukaram maharaj was spritualized by babaji Chaitanya and babaji Chaitanya left this material world before birth of Tukaram maharaj but they didn’t know who this babaji chaitanya is.
    If Tukaram maharaj can come back to this planet after going to vaikunta to initiate his disciples, than why cannot he come before his birth to accept initiation from lord Chaitanya?
    As Srila Prabhupad mentions in teachings of lord Chaitanya “chaitanya mahaprabhu spritulaised one tukaram”. It indicates that when Chaitanya mahaprabhu was carrying on His pastimes in Pandharpur then Tukaram maharaj appeared there to take initiation from Him. When Tukaram maharaj was performing his pastimes in this material world then at appropriate time Chaitanya mahaprabhu appeared in his dreams to spiritualize Tukaram maharaj.
    So we should have 100% faith in Srila Prabhupada’s words.

    • Mangesh
      July 23, 2013 at 10:55 am

      thanks chaitanya charan pr for nice explanation and thanks to Ravikant pr for more clarification

    • Chaitanya Charan das
      July 23, 2013 at 11:09 am

      Thank you, Ravikant Pr, for this elaborate and important comment.

  • Krishna Gaur Das
    July 23, 2013 at 8:07 pm

    After hearing Chaitanya charan pr & comment of ravikant pr this is simply amazing.we have got enough reference to at least for our own faith in prabhupad words.prji plz spread this as much as possible,then it will really become in real sense “Jai Maharasthra”.thank u very much prji

  • Mandar Peshwe
    April 16, 2015 at 2:46 am

    Sant Dnyaneshwar and Sant Namdev were also great devotees of Lord Krishna and they did nama sankirtan in 13th Century much before appearance of Lord Chaitanya in 15th Century. This can be seen in their historical narrations. Were they also initiated by Lord Chaitanya

    Sant Tukaram also did nama sankirtan in 16th century/

    • Chaitanya Charan das
      April 16, 2015 at 6:56 pm

      No, there’s no record of their being initiated by Lord Chaitanya.

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