Understanding Vedic Cosmology

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
transformational spiritual experience. … … … … So now, we will discuss about the science and scriptures part. And again, I will speak some broad principles through this PPT, and then I will address the specific issues which need to be raised.
So the first point is that if we consider scriptural wisdom to be a large whole, that scriptural wisdom will fall in three broad sections. One section is that which is in agreement with science. Second is that which contradicts science.
And third is that which transcends science. So, an example for each, say agrees with science. For example now, science is slowly discovering that consciousness does not come from the body, from the brain, it comes from the soul.
So there is evidence coming up for that. So that is which agrees with science, or rather science agrees with it. Then contradicts science, so currently science is saying that man came from monkeys.
The evolution theory is there. And then transcend science is, when you say there is a spiritual world, there are so many Vaikuntha planets, and then there is Goloka Vrindavan over there. So, this doesn’t contradict science, this is just beyond science.
Because science operates using material instruments, and it sees material effects. So something which is entirely in the spiritual world, so Krishna has six opulences. Actually there is nothing, science cannot talk about it at all.
That is just beyond the reach of science. So, now for us, which is the most important among these three parts? It is that which transcends. Because ultimately we ourselves, and our emotions, and our lives values, they are beyond the reach of science.
What happiness that we want, that ultimately science, as we will discuss a little later, science doesn’t even actually understand what is happiness. So I will talk about this later, but ultimately our most important part of scripture for us, that which is relevant in terms of our goals and values is that which transcends scriptures, transcends modern materialistic science. Now the word science can in a broad sense be used to mean Prabhupada said, Krishna consciousness is a science.
So now here when I am using the word science, I am using it to refer to modern, materialistic, naturalistic science, modern science basically. I am using it in a qualified, limited sense over here. Now, to some extent, some facts within the scriptures which are scientific, for example, the earth is called as Bhugod, this may give us faith.
Oh, the scriptures are also scientific. They also give scientifically valid knowledge. Or say the description of the embryo is there in the third canto, how it grows in the mother’s womb.
This is quite scientific. That may give us faith. And that which seems to contradict science, that may cause us doubts.
Certain things which scriptures are speaking, are they right? Or how do we understand it? So one aspect of this might be the cosmology part. So now for us, the primary, although these are like all three are divided equally, it’s not that the scriptural knowledge is equally divided among three. This is just a diagrammatic depiction.
Most of the scriptural knowledge that is important for us is in the transient science realm. Now how do we see the part that is having, say, contradicting science? That’s what we will discuss. Now before we go into that, the first point will be, is there something that actually transcends science? Many people have today, almost like a religious faith in science.
What do you mean by religious faith in science? If science says something, it must be true only. And, so this is actually this, science itself does, cannot say that anything that cannot be told by science is not true. That idea, that science has a monopoly on knowledge.
Science has a monopoly on knowledge. That means everything that needs to be known and can be known, that can be known only through science. This idea itself is not scientific.
This idea itself, there is no scientific proof for that. That everything that is there to be known, it can be known only through science. Simple example, if there is a very expert brain surgeon, he knows all parts of the brain of a person, very systematically.
There are many surgeons. His wife is upset with him today. Say, come dear, I will do your brain scan to find why you are upset.
No, isn’t it? That’s useless. So, at that particular point, scientific knowledge is of no use to understand a person’s emotions. The scientific approach is valid, but it is having its limitations.
Now, we are not talking about spiritual side. Even from a material point of view, there are limitations. Scientific approach doesn’t solve everything.
So, surely even from the material point of view, there are areas which transcend science. There are areas which transcend science. So, we will discuss about this.
So, let’s see first the part which transcends science. Is there something like that originally? And then we will move forward. So, when there is a contradiction, there are three possibilities.
Now, we are talking about this part, the contradicts part. So, what are the three possibilities? One is that science could be wrong with respect to Darwinian theory of evolution. There is even empirical evidence.
A doctor, Michael Kramer has written a book called Forbidden Archaeology, which documents evidence from a scientific point of view showing how science is wrong. Then science could be incomplete. The Big Bang theory is not entirely incorrect.
The idea that from a small point, things expanded, that is valid. Now, from Mahavishnu’s body’s pores, the universe has come out and expanded. That is how it happens.
But the idea that there was nothing before that and nothing started the Big Bang, that is incorrect. So, in that sense, this particular theory is incomplete. And the other possibility is that science and Vedas are observing from different scales.
That is Vedic cosmology. So, I will explain this as we move forward in the slideshow. This is how we will understand the contradiction part.
But before we understand the contradiction part, we need to recognize that science does not have a monopoly on knowledge. This will become scientific fanaticism. Most of us think of religious fanaticism.
But there can be scientific fanaticism also. Scientific fanaticism means, science has its utility, science has its value. We have technology, we have laptops, we have mobiles by that.
So, science has its kshetra. It has its jurisdiction where it works. But, if I say this is the jurisdiction of science, that doesn’t mean this is all that exists.
There is more that exists also. And science doesn’t have jurisdiction on that. So, how do we understand this? See, the world of science is the world of gross material reality.
If you consider this whole thing to be reality, science studies only gross matter. It doesn’t study anything beyond gross matter. Now, for example, I can make a cooking machine by which I can make all the recipes in a perfect way for making a rasgulla.
The cooking machine can make a rasgulla. But can the cooking machine tell me the rasgulla is delicious? The sweetness, how much sugar has been added, I can tell by that. But the experience of sweetness, that is the experience of the sense object.
So, the experience of the sense object is something which can be had only by consciousness. So, science can analyze, for example, now I can use a computer, say I can use Photoshop to make a beautiful image with exact, perfect color combination. Now, the science can tell me, okay, this has 33% red, 32% blue, 17% black.
But can science tell me this image is beautiful? That is the experience which can be had only through consciousness. So, mind, emotion, soul, God, ultimately these are outside the jurisdiction of science. To look at it another way, so now, what is the operating platform of science? See, we know that there are three levels of reality.
There is gross matter, there is subtle matter, and then there is spirit. So, what happens is, science studies only gross matter. It studies only gross matter.
There is spirit and there is subtle matter. Science doesn’t study that. Science doesn’t even know how to study that.
For example, now scientists can come to know that if a person is asleep and he is dreaming, then what happens? They can observe through sensors that the eyes are moving very rapidly. Then you can know that person is dreaming. And I can look at the part of the brain, which part of the brain is active, okay, this neuronal cells are firing, this part of the brain is firing.
But then what the person is dreaming? No brain scan can tell me that. I can know that the person is dreaming, but what he is dreaming, I’ll have to wake up and ask him, what are you dreaming? So, that means, science thrives on objectivity. Objectivity, observe what is quantifiable.
But there is much in human life that is not quantifiable. The whole medical science is meant to free people from pain. But the whole medical science doesn’t have a pain meter.
It doesn’t have a pain meter. Isn’t it? See, I have a fracture. Now the doctor can see, okay, your bone is misaligned this much.
But the misalignment cannot tell the doctor how much pain the patient is suffering. Does that hurt you? The doctor has to ask the patient. So, here, the point which I am making is, science may be very sophisticated and very successful within its jurisdiction.
But we shouldn’t be misled by its successes into thinking that its jurisdiction is everything. They are two different issues. Science success within its jurisdiction is accepted.
Technology works in many ways. But its jurisdiction is not everything. So, as an example, we can do sophisticated surgeries using science.
That’s fine. But, the whole purpose of medical science is to remove pain. There’s no meter to remove pain.
Or for that meter to become happy. No scientific instrument can measure happiness. How happy is somebody? Is happiness not a reality? Is pain not a reality? These are realities.
Important realities of our life. In fact, not just important, they are driving realities of our life. We want to avoid pain and experience happiness.
But these are beyond the jurisdiction of science. Because they happen through the interaction of the soul and subtle matter. So, the soul and subtle matter, they are not studied by science.
So, science may be able to find out, okay, when a person laughs, this part of the brain is active. That is fine. But that activity or that part of the brain is not happiness.
That is the result of happiness. So, the very important for us to understand is that there is a huge realm beyond the scope of science. And that realm is actually very important for us.
Our emotions, our happiness, our sorrows largely fall in that realm. And it is, now the spirituality is actually not just a study of spirit. It is a study of all the three realms together.
The scriptures study all the three realms together. They study, talk about matter, gross matter, subtle matter and they talk about spirit also. So, they talk about all these three together.
Now, what happens with science is, it studies gross matter. But even while studying gross matter, here there is this. So, what happens is, that when science studies some matter, now how long can science study? You cannot study for infinite amount of time.
We have only finite time. For example, if I want to study the, ok, how is the solar system, how is the universe? From, with modern scientific instruments, we have observed them for only a few hundred years. Even according to science, the universe is millions of years old.
So, the time span for which we have observed it is very limited. So, here is an example to understand the consequence of this. Imagine, I have three points, I have taken three observations.
And if I take three observations, now if I want to make a graph based on this. So, what will happen? Second graph, third graph, fourth graph, fifth graph, sixth graph. So, what happens is, here there is, there is certain observation that is valid.
But there is extrapolation of that observation. You know what is extrapolation? There are points which are there, but you extrapolate from there. So, when there is extrapolation, the extrapolation is not valid.
So, what happens, especially with respect to these two fields, the theory of evolution and the theory of Big Bang theory. This is origin of life and origin of the universe. Now, these two theories, they, the sample for science to observe is very limited.
Because how many years have we observed the species, how many years have we observed the universe? So, the sample is very small and the extrapolations from that are very large. So, what is happening here? So, from those three points, I can draw any graph that I want. And that graph, is it based on the evidence? No, it is based on the extrapolation.
So, many times science gets subjected to non-scientific extrapolation of scientific data. Non-scientific extrapolation of scientific data. So, actually speaking, the origin of life and origin of universe are subjects which are very difficult for science to talk about.
Because the data that is observed is so little. A simple example to understand this, say, suppose somebody from some other planet decides to do a survey of the Earth. And they send one spy on the Earth.
And that spy comes to Mayapur Dham, to Prabhupada Samadhi Auditorium. And that spy is, say, at the background over here, hovering in the space and observing. And he observes from 10 o’clock to 1 o’clock.
And then, that spy goes back and tells, you know, I did a survey of the Earth. And I found that the Earth is populated by male human beings between the age of 20 and 30, who are all engineering students. Now, is it correct? It’s correct.
The observation is correct. The extrapolation is totally wrong. So, here, what is the problem? You know, the observation is made for limited time and over limited space.
For limited time, over limited space. And it’s vastly generalized. And that’s what makes it wrong.
So, similarly, with respect to science. Now, that same spy, if he waited over here, maybe for one week, some other people will come and do programs over here. Let’s say, some Bengali children will come and do a program over here.
So, if you wait longer, you will see something different. Similarly, if he just observes here, goes to different points, all different kind of people are there. So, if we observe a limited space for limited time, and then generalize, that is not valid.
So, that’s what happens with respect to science, especially with respect to these two fields, cosmology and archaeology. Archaeology means origin of life, if you look at it that way. Cosmology means origin of universe.
So, the observation is just on the earth or in the vicinity of the solar system. It’s a very small space as compared to the universe. And for a very short time, few hundred years.
So, we really can’t get a valid understanding through this. So, again, the point is that there is much that is beyond the reach of science, even in the material realm. So, earlier what I talked is, there is the subtle material realm and the spiritual realm, which is beyond the reach of science.
But even in the gross material realm, because our observation has been done for such a small time, what can be observed is very limited. Therefore, there is much on which science cannot be sure about. And that’s why, if you look at serious scientists, they don’t consider Darwin’s theory of evolution as a actually scientifically proven fact.
Even the scientists don’t call Darwin’s theory of evolution as the Darwin’s law of evolution. They call it Newton’s law of motion. Because it’s not been proven and it cannot be proven.
Nobody is calling it Big Bang law. Even in science, there is a difference between theory and law. They are just theories.
Laws means which are more or less soundly proven based on observation and mathematics. So, as far as evolution is concerned, there is no mathematics over there. It’s just speculation.
So, here the important point is that we can use science and consider science as valid within its jurisdiction. But just because science is successful in its jurisdiction, we shouldn’t hand over to scientists the authority to judge everything about our lives. Is this point clear? Just because scientists have given us some things, which are working, which is fine.
But they have their jurisdiction. And in that jurisdiction they can work. But just because they are successful in their jurisdiction doesn’t mean we give scientists the authority to decide everything about everything.
About God, about soul, about consciousness, about origin of life, origin of universe. These are actually, either science has no jurisdiction or it is on very tentative shaky grounds. That’s why if you see that way, there is even from Pratyekshananoman, which is what science is based on, one can come to scriptural conclusions also.
But these are ultimately tentative. So, now after discussing this, I’ll discuss this part, I’ll go forward to understanding some of the… So, how does scientific progress work? Again, this is an important principle. This is when the scientific knowledge expands.
So, now you see there is something which is beyond the knowledge of science. When scientific knowledge expands, it expands in one dimension. It is not expanding in all dimensions.
That means our knowledge of matter and material realm has increased. But despite our huge explosion of scientific knowledge, there is not much knowledge of the soul. There is a famous morning walk of Srila Prabhupada with Professor Benford.
So, Prabhupada asked this Professor Benford, so, what is the current scientific knowledge about the soul? So, he says, currently there is no scientific knowledge about the soul, Professor Benford says. Prabhupada says, that means there is no scientific knowledge. He says, no, no, no, Swamiji, scientific knowledge is of a different category.
He says, for example, they are on a walk, he says, here now there is this grass and now we have two big volumes describing how this grass grows. Prabhupada says, even without your volumes, the grass was growing. So, then this Professor Benford says that, you know, if God didn’t want us to study the grass, why did he put the grass there? So, Prabhupada says, my point is, you study the grass and you forget the God who put the grass there.
So, scientific knowledge is in that sense focused on one chunk of reality. Like here, it’s expanding but it’s focusing on one chunk of reality. What is the chunk of reality? That is gross matter.
It is not studying subtle matter, it is not studying spirit. And even within gross matter is a problem. What is that? It’s porous.
It’s based on assumptions which are unproven. There are many holes in this knowledge also. There is a popular book on science called From Certainty to Uncertainty.
That is the name of the book. It’s written by Dr. David Peat. So, he says, at the start of the 20th century, scientists were sure.
Now we know almost everything. But by the end of the 20th century, quantum physics has so much complicated and confused things that that book quotes one scientist. He says, the quantum is the greatest glory and the greatest shame of modern science.
It’s greatest glory because it has revolutionized so many fields in which we are working. And greatest shame because we still don’t know what a quantum is. So, actually speaking, it is porous.
There are a lot of holes in this. Again, this is not to criticize science or scientists per se. It is to recognize that there are limitations to their knowledge.
And to point out the limitations, if a person is an honest scientist, he will also admit, yes, this is beyond the scope. This is something which you are uncertain about. So, beyond that, it leads to incomplete understanding.
It is imperfect because these three things, existence, purpose and value. Why do I exist? How did I come into existence? Why do I exist? What is right and what is wrong? Science cannot tell us anything about this. What is right and what is wrong? I cannot tell anything about this.
Now, currently, you know, in America, there was a famous Roe Vade case in which they decided to legalize abortion. Legalize abortion. Now, there is a strong movement come up which is saying that, okay, if the child in the womb can be killed, then there is no scientific reason to avoid killing the child outside the womb.
That means, what they are saying is, if the child is born physically handicapped, mentally retarded, or the child is born and the parents are not, the mother especially, if many times children are born outside marriage, the mother is not in a position to maintain the child, the mother doesn’t want to maintain the child and there is no one to adopt the child. If there are situations like this, if you can kill the child within the womb, what is wrong in killing the child outside the womb? Now, when they propose this, this was proposed in an international biological journal, it created a big uproar. How can you kill a child like that? They said, actually speaking, biologically, if you use the reasons to kill the child inside the womb, you can kill the child outside the womb also.
So, the point is, we cannot let science decide moral issues like this. The value of the sacredness of life is something which science doesn’t comprehend. So, it can’t decide that.
That’s why it leads to incomplete understanding. So, now, I discussed about, you remember that three parts, that which agrees, that which contradicts and that which transcends. So, now when I talk about contradicts, I explained that there are three possibilities.
One is that science is incorrect. Science can be incorrect because there can be non-scientific extrapolation of scientific data. Or it can be incomplete because the data which we have is not sufficient.
Or there can be a multiple parallel perspectives to the same situation. So, here, let’s look at the parallel perspectives. So, now, one aspect of Vedic cosmology is the whole idea of the moon.
Did man go to the moon or not? So, first of all, the Vedic sages talk about different scales of observation. Now, to understand this, consider a simple example. Say, if I take white chalk powder, white chalk and I take black charcoal.
I make both of them into powder. Now, and mix the two powders. So, what do I get? I get a grey powder.
Now, if I look at the grey powder with my eyes, I see a grey powder. But if I look at the same grey powder under microscope, what will I see? I’ll see white particles, I’ll see black particles. Now, what is the reality? Is it white and black particles or is it grey powder? Well, what you will call reality will depend on what you can see.
It depends on the scale of observation. See, God has given us a particular scale of observation so that we can function. A car is ultimately made of atoms and molecules which are moving around and it is made of quantum from the quantum point of view.
But if I was crossing a road and if instead of seeing a car, I saw quantum waves over there, what would happen? I would be knocked down and I will die. Or if a man is attracted to a woman, instead of seeing the woman’s body, he sees all molecules running up and down in the body. So, see, for our functional purposes, we have been given a certain scale of observation.
And at our scale of observation, we consider something to be the reality. But that thing, when it is observed from some other scale, it will seem different. And at that scale of observation, it is like that.
So, therefore, the same object can be seen differently, not just differently, contradictorily. If you say that something is grey powder or it is white and black, it is contradictory. But the same object can be seen contradictorily depending on the scale of observation.
The same principle applies to Vedic cosmology. So, which is real? Actually, it depends on the scale of observation. So, now, when Vedic cosmology talks about, say, Bhu Mandala and Meru Parvata and so many other things, we need to understand that there are two main sources of Vedic cosmology.
That means, in the Indian wisdom tradition, in the Vedic tradition, there is cosmology talked about in two sorts of books. One is the Puranas, like we have the Bhagavad Purana. And then there is the Jyotishya Shastras.
They are also called as Siddhanta Shastras. So, for example, there is a book called Surya Siddhanta, there is Soma Siddhanta. Like that, there are various books which talk about cosmology.
Now, these two talk about it from two different sources. So, Puranas talk about cosmology from a divine scale of observation. It’s a God’s eye view or demigod’s eye view of the cosmos.
And the Jyotishya Shastras talk about it from a human scale of observation. So, and it is quite similar to modern cosmology. So, here I have given two examples.
There is a book called Surya Siddhanta and it gives the distance between the earth and the moon. And actually speaking, that distance is almost identical with the distance that modern science has found out. And this was given thousands of years ago.
Similarly, there it is said 253,000 and the modern science says it is 252,710. Science also says that the exact orbit is not fixed. Sometimes the distance keeps increasing slightly.
So, that variation is certainly within the understandable limit. Similarly, the earth’s diameter is remarkably accurate. 7,840 as compared to 7,926.
So, now if these were all unscientific or illogical, how could they have such accurate measurements? These are just few samples. There are many such things which are given in the Siddhanta books, Surya Siddhanta and other Jyotishastra books, which are remarkably accurate. So, and both of them are the part of the same tradition.
So, at one level it is talking about say ocean of milk and all these things. But the same tradition is also talking about things which we can see and which agree with our scientific observations. So, there is the dynamic within the tradition to understand that these two are from different scales of observation.
So, therefore, if we say that did man go to the moon or not? Narasimha Prabhupada himself said that he made different statements. He said they didn’t go to the moon. They may have gone not to the moon but to somewhere else.
Or they may have gone to the moon also. Once or twice he said that. So, Prabhupada’s emphasis was that they don’t have a proper understanding of cosmology.
So, now if I say, I know mathematically 3 plus 3 is 6. So, if somebody tells me 3 plus 3 is not 6, then it’s wrong. Then that person has to tell me what happened actually. What is the answer that you got? Was it 7 or was it 5 or was it 6 or was it 8 or what? Then I can tell what sum that you did wrong.
So, one thing is sure, if 3 plus 3 doesn’t give 6, that is wrong. So, similarly, if man claims to have gone to the moon, the moon is a, the Chandraloka is a higher dimensional, higher level planet where there are demigods living. Now, if the man claims to have gone to the moon and not experienced that, then there is something that is inadequate.
There is something which is incorrect over there. So, what is that? So, Chandraloka, if they didn’t go, then what has happened? There are different ways to understand this. So, first point is that Chandraloka, whenever the demigods come to this world also, they are invisible unless they allow us to see them.
Only when they give the drishti, we can see them. So, the demigods and their lokas exist at a higher realm. So, the Chandraloka that is described in the Vedic literature is a higher realm and even if I travel in three dimensional space to the moon, assuming for argument’s sake that they went to the moon, still they will be only in the three dimensional plane only and when they go in the three dimensional plane, they cannot experience the higher reality.
It’s like if there is a city of Mumbai, the city of Mumbai is a multi dimensional reality, but if I project the city on a map, then what happens when it comes on a map? It’s just one small place on the map. Now, if I want to go from Pune to Mumbai, if I just move my finger from Pune to Mumbai, do I experience Mumbai over there? No, because I am moving within a two dimensional projection. So, therefore, the point is that even if man claims to have gone to the moon, still man has only gone in three dimensional realm and in the three dimensional realm, the higher dimensional reality cannot be experienced and that is why they didn’t experience any of the things that they should have experienced if they had actually got access to the moon.
Prabhupada gives a simple example on the point of say, somebody comes to Thar desert and he looks around and he says, nobody here and he goes back. He says, there is no life on earth or not Thar desert or Sahara desert, somebody comes over there. So, the point which he is making is that if we come but we don’t get access to what is actually happening over there, then we don’t understand what is really there.
So, a person does not experience the people and the skyscrapers and everything that is there on that planet. Now, it’s also possible that when they went to the moon, actually the moon is a higher level planet and unless the devatas allow access, they will not be allowed. Now, there is a story of Trishanku.
Trishanku wanted to go to swarga and he went to Vashishtha. Vashishtha said, you can go to swarga but do punya, in the next life you can go to swarga. He said, no, no, no, I want to go right now, in this body.
He said, that’s not possible. Then there was a rivalry between Vashishtha and Vishwamitra. So, he said to Vishwamitra, he said, can you send me to swarga? Vashishtha could not do that.
He said, oh, I can do that then. Then he started doing tapasya and he said, as he started doing tapasya, this is actually a technology, high technology, it started rising. Rising, rising, rising, rising, as he went up, you know, swargaloka radar station sorts, unidentified flying object coming.
Then, Indra said, what is this? He said, this is a earthly being without karma is coming. Send him down. So, Trishanku started coming down.
Vishwamitra said, why are you coming down? Go up. And he went up again and again Indra said, come down. So, poor, Trishanku became like a tennis ball.
Between earth and swarga. He went up and down. And finally, Vishwamitra’s merits started getting exhausted.
And then he started saying, he said, ok, if he doesn’t allow me to go to swarga, then I will create my own planet. He started creating his own planet and then he was keeping Trishanku over there and suddenly found his merits got exhausted. And then the whole planet started falling.
And they prayed to Lord Vishnu, please help me, please help me. And then because he was a great sage, Lord Vishnu came and told him that you don’t squander your mystic powers like this on trying to send unqualified people up there. But anyway, you have created this, so I will maintain it.
That’s why we have Trishanku. So, that is the story. But the point of the story is that unqualified people are not allowed access.
Just as Indra was sent down from there. Similarly, somebody wants to go to Chandraloka, they might not have gone there at all. They would have diverted to somewhere else in the universe and they just thought that they had gone to the moon.
Now, or they might not have gone at all. There is strong case that can be made for this based on empirical evidence. There are several videos that are available.
It was one video that was broadcast on old Fox television. Did man go to the moon? And there is Bill Kaysing who has written a book How NASA Mooned America. Moon means fooled America.
So, there can be empirical case made for this and those of you who are interested, you can contact your local devotees. There are the evidences which are quite reasonable, which make a strong case for doubting the claim that they have gone to the moon. The whole point here is that it is the Chandraloka exists in a higher realm and we may or may not be able to go there.
It is quite likely that we didn’t go there. But somehow or the other if we go there in the future still we can’t get access unless we have the right apparatus. See, for the soul who is spiritual, for it to interact with the material world he needs the right apparatus.
So, our physical body is the apparatus suitable for earth. It is not suitable for the higher planets. So, now beyond this another point is so, I mentioned this science works with respect to technology but we said the spirituality also works.
You know, you see giant Hare Krishna, you feel your desires transform. So, different things work at different levels. So, largely science focus on externals.
Improve external work, external comfort, external control. But spirituality, it changes the internals. So, science can improve things but spirituality can improve people.
Science can improve things but spirituality can improve people. So, therefore science may have its validity. So, that there is much beyond the world of science.
This is Arvind Schrodinger quoting. He is a Nobel laureate. He says, I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient.
It gives a lot of factual information, puts all our experience in a magnificently consistent order but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. What all is silent about? I said there is no measure for pain, no measure for happiness. That’s what he says.
It cannot tell us a word about red and blue. You cannot measure, oh, this is beautiful red, this is jarring red. It can’t measure that.
It cannot tell us about bitter and sweet. Hey, this sweet is not cooked nicely. This is cooked nicely.
Science cannot tell us. It cannot tell us about physical pain and physical delight. It knows nothing about beautiful and ugly, good and bad, God and eternity.
Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. So here, a Nobel laureate scientist is telling that science answers to questions outside his jurisdiction, he doesn’t take them seriously. And why should we take them seriously? Here is a scientist who is the core of science, he is telling, he is saying that there is a jurisdiction beyond science and if science goes into that jurisdiction, I don’t take it seriously.
So we also needn’t take science seriously outside the jurisdiction. Within the jurisdiction it works, that’s fine. So now, so here this Abdul Kalam quotes this in Ignited Minds, he says Heisenberg told Einstein, again both of them are Nobel laureates, he says, you know in the West we have built a large, beautiful ship.
It has all the comforts in it but one thing is missing. It has no compass and it doesn’t know where to go. So, modern society is like that.
Modern society is just based on science. You know, we have got a lot of things, gadgetry we have got, lot of control we have got in terms of say flying or mobile or cell phone or whatever but what is the purpose of life and how to achieve that? It’s completely silent about that. So Vedic scriptures offer us a more complete cosmology.
A cosmology in which not only what is arranged over here but what am I doing here and where am I supposed to go from here? That is what is told by the Vedic cosmology. So those of you who are interested in cosmology, this is a book written by Sadaput Prabhu, Dr. Cheryl Thompson, Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy, that describes in detail the Vedic cosmology, how it works. This is a little technical.
I won’t go into this detail now. So, the point is the universe is so great, even in science we cannot understand it very easily. And despite years and years, science is still finding it difficult to understand it.
Therefore, we need humility in order to understand that that the world is not so easy to comprehend, especially the universe. And the Vedic cosmology gives us a far more complete understanding of where we are and where we are supposed to go. So now a few other questions which are commonly there about say the question comes up about eclipses.
So the Vedic scriptures say that Rahu is there and Rahu devours the sun or the moon and then eclipses occur. Actually speaking, if we look at it carefully what the Bhagavatam says, Rahu is not just a person and sun is not just a person. And it seems very simplistic.
One person is going and devouring some other person. No. Rahu is the predominating predominating lord of a particular planet.
And sun is the predominating lord of a particular planet. And Rahu is an invisible planet. Invisible planet means that because it doesn’t reflect light, we can’t see it.
So therefore, now actually in the Siddhanta scriptures the planet or planet orbit of Rahu is also described. And described where Rahu is at different positions. And although we can’t detect it, by its orbit we can detect it.
So it is described that actually speaking in the Siddhanta’s books, the explanation that science talks about, that okay sun comes in between, then the moon comes in between, then this eclipse happens, solar eclipse happens, this happens, then lunar eclipse happens. All of you know that explanation. That same explanation is given in the Siddhanta books before modern science discovered it.
And not only that explanation given, that explanation works. India has one of the most ancient astrological and astronomical traditions by which Indian jyotishis were predicting eclipses with accuracy even before western astrology and western astronomy came up. So the orbits we are describing, they also work.
So how does it work? That Rahu and Ketu, they have their own orbits and they complement the influence that is caused by sun, moon and earth together. That means say the sun is here, the moon comes in between and the earth is here. So sun, moon and earth.
So according to science, what happens? The moon comes in between, so the sun gets blocked. That’s fine. So the Vedic scriptures also talk about it.
But they say this is not all that happens over there. Rahu has its own orbit and Rahu comes also over there. So actually speaking, if you talk about the shadow of an object, when you talk about shadow, there is ambra and there is penumbra.
Ambra is a darker covering and penumbra is a much thinner covering. So now when you talk about one object, even today in scientific circles, it is a topic of discussion and debate whether one object can cause such a thick shadow that another thing can get blocked. Now the sun, moon and earth, even according to the Vedic science, are thousands of miles away.
So whether the shadow will extend over so much distance and whether the shadow will be so thick that things can get blocked completely. Now there is no scientific experiment which can actually demonstrate the accuracy of this explanation in terms of its completeness. So the Vedic sages said that Rahu and Ketu, they also come along and they have their malefic influence.
Malefic means negative influence and they block out the light. So this explanation is from a parallel reality point of view. It’s additional reality which modern science can’t perceive.
Now some people say that, ok, ok. Now another point is, is sun closer to the earth than the moon? Actually, Prabhupada says this in a few places. Some of you might have heard about this.
It was question asked also in there. The thing is that in the Vedic scriptures distances are not measured simply in terms of geography. There is only one aspect of the distance.
Geography is one aspect but another aspect is the vertical dimension. The vertical dimension is in terms of consciousness. See when we say heaven is above, now if I am in India and I say heaven is above, I go to South America and say heaven is above.
No, actually above will be two opposite directions. So where is heaven exactly? So, so we may use our sense of geographical time and space very simplistically and say heaven is above. But that above is not like our time-space and direction of above.
That above is in terms of karma. So there are certain planets which exist at a higher karmic altitude. Geographically they may be in different situations.
They are in a higher karmic altitude. And that is why that vertical dimension is something which needs to be understood. So the Vedic scriptures place planets according to hierarchy in terms of how much people have evolved in their consciousness.
So consider three flats. Say flat A is on the ground floor. Flat B is on the 20th floor of the next building.
And flat C is on the third floor of another building far away from flat A. So see this. So here is flat A, flat B and flat C. Now in terms of horizontal distance which is closer to flat A, B or C? B. Ok. C is much further away.
Now if I calculate in terms of the effective distance that is the diagonal distance. Flat B is much higher. So the distance will vary.
The horizontal distance may not always be the same as the effective distance. Therefore, same way if you see over here, the earth is at one particular level. The moon is at a higher level.
The sun is at an intermediate level. So as compared to the vertical dimension, the moon is further away from the earth than the sun. But in the horizontal direction, the sun is further away.
And therefore the effective distance even according to Vedic cosmology, it works out that the sun is further away. So there are these different dimensions and what happens is we have been acquainted only with the scientific world view. And a scientific world view is just one map of reality.
It’s one map. One way of looking at the world. The map is not the territory.
Suppose, you know, I want to go from here to Mumbai to meet my friend. And I take a map and then I go along the journey and I come to Mumbai. And when I come to Mumbai, I find out, now as I use the map, my faith in the map increases.
You turn left, okay, you’re coming here. You’ll come to a river. You go right, I come to a river.
You will come to a bridge, go across it. And as I keep using the map, my faith in the map increases. But then, when I come to Mumbai, and I look at Mumbai, you know, sorry, I look at the map of Mumbai and then in the map, till now the map has guided me very well.
But when I come to Mumbai, I come to my friend’s house and then I meet my friend over there. He says, oh, welcome, welcome. I look at my map.
He says, my map? It doesn’t show that you exist. Therefore, you don’t exist. See, this is so ridiculous, isn’t it? So, the map has its utility, but the map is never a complete picture of reality.
So, that way, map is useful, but it is useful in its own jurisdiction. So, what has happened with people today is that they have used science like a map and it seems to work. Okay, I dial somebody’s number, I can talk with somebody.
And then, like that, I keep moving forward, keep moving forward. And then, when you come to soul, to God, look at science. Science doesn’t say anything, therefore, it doesn’t exist only.
That’s, again, invalid. So, Vedic cosmology is talking from a different perspective, which is much more complete. This is how actually the science describes from a particular perspective.
And the earth, the moon is further away from the earth in terms of the vertical dimension. So, same point, flat B is much closer. Diagonally, flat C is much further.
So, modern science, as I said, is super speculative with respect to cosmology. Why super speculative? Because it is, actually speaking, it is small sample and large extrapolation. So, Vedic cosmology, in its way, it’s coherent.
It makes sense if you look at a complete model. It is holistic. It gives an understanding of who I am, what I am doing over here, where I will go after death.
And it gives a higher dimensional, more complete perspective. You want to add something? So, here there is a question that if the moon is further away from the sun, then how does it come in between? See, this particular diagram that I had depicted over here, that depicts only one part of the reality. The moon has its own orbit.
And those of you who are interested in cosmology, you can study it more with these books. So, their orbits do interact even according to science. Even according to Vedic science, Vedantic science.
So, in their particular orbits, they do overlap. And that’s how the Vedic explanation also of cosmology is there. So, this is prepared by IIT Chennai devotees.
Very nicely prepared this presentation. All the other devotees also told what gives them faith and what causes them doubt. So, should I read this for you? I’ll go to the doubt part directly.
I’ll just add one point. Yes, please. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna.
See, just like all of us sitting here now, imagine suddenly a cat comes here and sits in the class. So, the cat cannot understand what is going on. Is it not true? Because his level of development of his brain is not that much to comprehend what is going on here.
So, this is one explanation Prabhupada gives when he talks about reaching to other planets. The distance between earth and other planets is not only you know so many miles or so many light years distance, but it is also consciousness distance. So, even if we happen to go to another planet, we will not be able to perceive the things on the planet because of our lack of development of the consciousness, which is called punya, as we say.
But when that punya is performed, you go there, immediately you get the eyes to see what is going on there. Another explanation is like in your eyes, with your eyes you don’t see any bacteria right now. Before 16th century, nobody knew there was bacteria.
But then when you have electron microscope, then you are able to see creatures which are not visible to our naked eye. So, even on this earth, there are many creatures which we don’t see with our naked eye, but with some instruments we see. Similarly, just as our ears have limitation, eyes have limitation, the devatas, it is said, the devatas can change their form at will.
Like Brahma’s body is made only of intelligence, it is said. Similarly, different planets have creatures made up of different substances also. And the level of existence and the level of facilities for enjoyment, everything is totally altogether different.
So, Prabhupada writes about this, by mechanical arrangement it is not possible for one to reach another planet, but even if man does, sometimes a man appears to be doing something extraordinary, because if a living entity very desperately desires to do something, then God may give sanction also. Like you see, Hiranyakashipu wanted to desperately become number one in the world. Of course, he was given that facility and he misused it and then he was destroyed subsequently.
Similarly, sometimes man appears to be doing something extraordinary. And even if he lands on another planet, yes, he is allowed to land there, but he can’t perceive the happenings there. So, there are several questions.
IIT Chennai has prepared a very nice presentation about science. So, they have given many points about how science has its problems, its limitations. And then they have asked some questions.
So, here there is a quote of Einstein, where he says that science and religion, they have their jurisdiction and they have their limitations. So, one without the other is incomplete. And we need to get a complete understanding.
These are the questions from devotees here. What is the source of all energy? Energy can’t be created or destroyed, then how does it exist in the first place? The Vedic scriptures explain that even matter is eternal. And when we say, how does it exist in the first place? In the first place, there is no first place.
That means, if something is eternal, then there is no beginning. So, matter is also anadi, without any beginning. But its manifestation is cyclic.
That means, sometimes matter is created, sometimes matter is destroyed. So, just as Krishna is eternal, his energy is also eternal. And that energy is manifested when there is creation, that energy becomes unmanifested when there is destruction.
It’s like, you say, we can have a chapati floor from which sometimes chapati is made. Sometimes the chapati is taken and it’s put back in the floor. So, like that the energy is manifested and unmanifested.
So, we don’t say that, some people have the idea that God creates something out of nothing. God can do anything, but God doesn’t do that. There is matter existing, He just arranges matter in a particular way.
We discussed about the moon. What about higher dimensions? Yes, science is talking about many higher dimensions, but as I said, in the string theory, it is becoming extremely speculative. And the higher dimensions which we just talked about are higher dimensions, not just in terms of mathematical analysis.
There are higher dimensions which can be perceived by elevation of consciousness. By purification we can perceive those dimensions. So, can science explain these higher dimensions? There is a methodology for everything.
And for doing a particular object, I have to adopt a particular methodology. Otherwise, the process becomes very difficult or it is almost impossible. Say for example, if I want to weigh my weight, measure my weight, the method is to stand on the weighing machine.
I say, no, I don’t want to adopt this method. I will find some other method. Okay, then what I may do is, I will get one kg weight, pile them up on one side of the weighing pan and stand on the other side of the weighing pan and then cut those bricks according to what size is required to balance the two.
It is a much more cumbersome process. So, the point is for gaining a particular measure, a particular process is required. So, weighing without a weighing machine may be possible in some cases.
But in many scientific cases, if I want to measure, okay, what is the speed of an electron when I have a high energy particle accelerator. If I say, I won’t use the particle accelerator and I want to measure the speed of the electron. Is it possible? There is nothing I can do by which I can measure it.
So, even in science, for particular measurements, particular apparatus and particular procedure is required. If I don’t use that, if I want to measure the distance of a distant star that is somewhere in the sky, I have to use a telescope. If I say, I won’t use a telescope, then what do I have to do? Okay, I’ll sit in a spacecraft and I’ll keep my distance on the speedometer and I’ll keep going all the way there.
That may take me several hundred years and I hope I stay alive, then I’ll measure it. So, for measuring particular measures, for measuring certain data, certain instruments are required. Similarly, if you want to talk about higher dimensions in terms of the higher planets that exist or the higher levels of consciousness that exist, the apparatus and the procedure for measuring them is purification of our heart.
If I want to know whether Krishna exists or not, okay, I can do some scientific research, I can show this particular design is so complicated, it cannot have come by itself, therefore it must be designed. So, I can say that much that God exists. But if I want to know, how does God look like? There is no scientific process by which I can do that.
What is the process? That is scriptural process. That is also in its own way a science. I have to purify my consciousness, I have to chant Hare Krishna, I have to connect myself with Krishna and then in my consciousness, Krishna’s Smriti will come, Krishna’s Smriti, Krishna’s revelation will come.
Then I can see. So, science has a jurisdiction and its progress will not necessarily extend its jurisdiction to higher dimensions. It can use better understanding of matter and spiritual dimensions.
But the higher, subtle material and spiritual dimensions require a separate process to access. Are cloning, cross-baiting, etc. safe? Many scientists themselves are saying that they are not safe.
There is lot of danger in that. And the legal and the ethical complications in these are enormous. That’s why even from the Vedic point of view, playing around and manipulating nature is at best useless, at worst dangerous.
At best it is useless, nothing will come out. At worst, something dangerous will come about. Therefore, it is best to avoid it.
Can we really live without science, without electricity, etc? The important point is, when we talk about Krishna Consciousness, it is not that we have to give up science. We have to give up the faith that science can make us happy. We don’t have to give up science, we have to give up the faith that science can make us happy.
Or science can give us complete knowledge also. So, there are some devotee community projects which are also living without electricity. But that is not essential.
You know, we are not enemies of electricity or enemies of science. We are devotees of Krishna. That is our primary focus.
And whatever is uncool for Krishna’s service, we will use it. So now, science also, if we see at one level, it is the scientists, many of them tell that actually like when Gauss discovered the laws of electricity, he said, I didn’t get these laws by my own hard effort. I got them by the grace of God.
So, even the scientific knowledge at one level is to the extent where it is giving us working material principles which are in agreement with the overall understanding of life as given in the Vedic scriptures. They are also in one sense what Krishna has given to the scientists because of their desire to know. So, it’s also within the jurisdiction of Krishna and it can be used in Krishna’s service.
So, we have to give up our unwarranted faith in science. Not that we have to give up completely science but our unwarranted faith in science. That’s what we need to be careful about.
So, why condemn science when it is helping to propagate Krishna consciousness? Again, it’s not that we are condemning science. If at all there is any condemnation, it is of science’s unwarranted claims. Science has the jurisdiction but when science goes beyond its jurisdiction and makes unscientific claims, that is what is condemned.
Why should the Prabhupada condemn scientists saying they are fools and rascals? I explained about the usage of the word fools and rascals. With respect to scientists, the Prabhupada’s point is very simple that science is meant to give us data based on observations and then make theories. So, if there is no evidential proof, how can a theory be accepted? If you look at the theory of evolution, the evidences themselves are extremely debated.
And so Srila Prabhupada says if something is debated, then you are publishing in textbooks as if it is absolute truth. That is something which is misleading people. Srila Prabhupada when he met several scientists on a personal basis, he was quite warm.
But if somebody is propagating misconceptions and calling those misconceptions as science, that is debatable. That is condemnable. What do Srila Devaraj feel on how we can synthesis science and Krishna consciousness? Srila Prabhupada himself gave us the model.
In the Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 1, chapter 5, verse 22, Srila Prabhupada says, There is a verse, He says that, actually all branches of knowledge can be used to glorify the Supreme Lord. And he said that the scientist, instead of denying the existence of God, should use his scientific knowledge to prove the existence of God and to spread the glories of God. So, as devotees, if any of us has a very active and deep interest in science, then there are devotee scientists also with whom we can, after we become solidified in our Krishna conscious practices and in our basic philosophical understanding, if we have interest in scientific research, we can find out which are the fields from devotee scientists where we can go deeper into research.
So, essentially, the existence of God, the existence of soul, these are two very very important fields where devotees can do research. So, that means what you can do, one way is, science can be used to show how the fundamental principles of spirituality are scientific. The existence of God, existence of soul, the transformation by the process of meditation, all these are tangible which can be empirically observed.
So, there are ways in which they can be synthesized. Now, this is for those who are specializing and going in that research. But apart from that, for all of us, as students of science, after becoming spiritually inclined, what should we do? For us, science is basically a source of livelihood and a source of respectability.
Different people can have different professions. So, we have a profession as a scientist or as a technologist, as an engineer and we use that, and that position gives a certain steadiness and respectability in society, we can use that to share Krishna’s message. If an IIT student talks about Krishna consciousness, people hear.
In one sense, Krishna says, So, all of you are prominent, not just IIT students, IIT, NIT, prominent colleges all of you are from. So, you can use scientific knowledge not just for your material livelihood, but also, apart from that, you can use that knowledge at the respectability that comes from it to bring honor to Krishna’s message. In material life, the same studies people do for what purpose? To bring honor to their own ego.
I am so great, I am so intelligent. But a devotee wants to do wellness studies so that he can bring honor to Krishna, bring glory to Krishna. So, we can use science as far as it is required for our professional purposes, but we need to know that it has its limitations and Krishna consciousness offers us much broader principles that include science as a subset within them.
Do you want to add something? There is one madam in Pune, Mrs. Sujatha Vaidya, she has a camera with which she can click the aura coming out of a person’s body. She has clicked the aura of sadhus and common people. If the aura is reddish, a person is in passion.
If the aura is blackish, he is in ignorance. If the aura is yellowish, then a person is in sattva guna. So, she has done a whole doctorate research on this.
We invited her to our temple in Pune and asked her to give a presentation to 500 students in Pune. So, she gave one whole presentation for about two hours. This is an example of how the field of science can be used for studying certain things said in the scriptures like rajoguna, tamoguna, sattva guna can be scientifically captured and shown to people.
There is another field called psychometry. Psychometry means, for example, you give your kerchief or the dress that you wear, the pen that you use, chapels that you use. Using the psychometry, they can tell you what type of person you are.
What type of nature you have, what type of qualities you have based on studying them. Psychometry is also a study based on the aura emanating from a person’s body and the things that he uses. So, in the field of science, there are many new things coming up like this.
There are other fields like ESP, extrasensory perception. There is clairvoyance. Then there is… So, science can also study spirituality like out-of-body experience.
Now, currently, Chandracharan Prabhu is working on creating some hundred videos which will become internationally acclaimed in the years to come under the guidance of His Holiness Bhaktiraswami Maharaj. So, they are going to produce videos and show it in Discovery Channel. And their main field of study right now is out-of-body experience and near-death experience and reincarnation studies, which can also be very scientifically studied.
So, if any of you from the field of science, you have a great inclination to do research, there is MS in Consciousness Studies. More than 14 universities worldwide are offering MS degree in Consciousness Studies. So, we could… many… There is one David Brann Wolf who has studied the effect of Hare Krishna Mahamantra in a person’s body and mind and system.
A whole bulky doctorate thesis studying the effect of Hare Krishna Mahamantra very scientifically. So, there are many fields like that combining science and spirituality. And you can consult Chetan Charan for more.
And another thing you asked, how can science be used? Like you know, like morning we were watching at 7 o’clock Lord Narasimhadev. As the camera is taken closer and closer, you get big close-up face of Narasimhadev. So nearby.
It was so nice, wonderful. Even if you are standing in front of the deity, probably you cannot get such a darshan. So, you can use science to magnify you and expand your Krishna consciousness.
Hare Krishna. So, we heard in the creation session that the universe in the beginning while emerging from Mahavishnu was the size of mustard seed and it expands. So, something similar is stated in the Big Bang Theory also.
Can you say in a way that the Big Bang Theory also explains about creation as per the Vedas? Yeah, I mentioned that there are similarities. It starts from a small point and it expands. Second similarity is that there is, according to Big Bang, there is a huge explosion.
So, from the Vedic perspective Sahaikshita, the Lord glances and that glance surcharge, energizes matter and then it starts expanding. From the Vedic point of view, there are also not just one universe, there are many universes. So, these are similarities.
And in that sense, the Big Bang Theory is similar but there are substantial differences. According to the Big Bang Theory, there is nothing beyond the universe that is expanding. It doesn’t recognize that there is an initiator and sustainer of the whole process of expansion.
It initiates by the glance of God and it is sustained under His supervision. So, therefore, the Big Bang Theory is incomplete. What the Vedic scriptures talk about is the Big Glance Theory.
The Big Glance. The glance of Lord Vishnu is what starts off everything. And that’s how it begins.
Now, as far as parallel universes is concerned, science talks about it and Vedic scriptures also say there are Ananda, Koti, Brahma and Ananya. There are millions of universes. But, there are again differences between the two.
Why has science proposed these parallel universes? There is a reason for that. That, you know, science originally proposed that the universe is as it is now if that was how it was always. Then, if the universe itself is eternal, then there is no creation, there is no need for creator.
That’s how we can do away with God. So, originally the scientists preferred by scientists, here in this context we are referring to primarily atheistic scientists. There are theistic scientists also.
So, atheistic scientists, they prefer this steady state universe theory. But then they found the galaxies are moving apart. They realized that means they were together at one time.
So, they said the universe has a beginning. And actually when the point came up that the universe has a beginning, that was as close as science can come to proving that there is a creation and there is a creator. Because there is beginning, from beginning it has spread forward.
That means it’s a creation. Then scientists came, the atheistic scientists came up with the idea that actually this whole expansion happened by chance. Boom! There is an explosion and everything happened.
But then there is a problem with that. They said that maybe by chance everything came together perfectly. But then they found that all the arrangements of the various planets are so accurate that it couldn’t have happened by chance.
For example, there are many examples of this. If the universe would have just uniformly distributed as cloud. But why did planets form? Why did satellites form? Why did galaxies form? Why did solar system form? They don’t have any explanation about any system by which it could happen.
And as scientists came up with more and more evidence of very great orderliness in the universe. Not just in terms of the structure of the planets, but in terms of the fundamental constants also. That means the ratio of the mass of the strong gravity force versus the weak force.
Strong atomic force versus weak force. Like that. Various constants scientists found were so remarkable.
They could not have been by chance. So again the evidence proved that if it cannot be chance, it has to be a plan, it has to be a design. But still the atheists and scientists said, no, no, no, we will not accept this.
So what they came up with now, the idea that if all the parameters have come out right in this universe, that is by chance. But the chance possibility is very low. Oh, no problem.
As low as the possibility, there are that many universes. That means the idea of parallel universes is primarily propagated to avoid the possibility of chance. So if I throw a dice and it falls six, the possibility is one out of six.
But if I say there are six dice being stolen, being thrown, then somewhere it will fall six once. So like that they are saying there are millions of universes and one of the universes, all the parameters came out right. And all the other universes, they are all coming in different ways.
So actually the parallel universe theory has no observational basis. It has no observational basis, not just according to current research, even according to future research. Because they are parallel, they can never be observed.
That’s why there is a famous astrophysicist, John Wheeler. So once he gave an astrophysics class and then after that one of his students said, this theory is very difficult to understand. So he says, don’t worry.
If you miss a bus, a girl or a cosmological theory, don’t worry, because in a few minutes a new one is coming. He’s a materialistic person, it’s a typical joke. He says, just as a bus comes and going, so cosmological theories keep coming and going.
So they are very speculative about this. So there are multiple universes according to Vedic cosmology, but each universe has its own laws. It’s not that in this universe everything is right and everything else in other universes is chaotic.
Each universe has its creator, each universe has its laws and there also things are operating accordingly. So the whole concept of parallel universes is more in the realm of science fiction than science. There is very little if any scientific basis for that.
So can you please explain about aliens? Are they present or not? Yes, of course. Dr. Richard Thomson has written a book called Alien Identities. Richard Thomson is Sadaput Prabhu.
He is a prominent scientist disciple of Srila Prabhupada and he has described various researches by various scientists about this phenomena of aliens coming and many of their descriptions. For example, he compares the description of alien spacecrafts. You know, they have this saucer-like spacecraft which come and suddenly they go move this way, move that way, come this way, go that way.
They can move in ways which modern science can’t explain. Because according to the law of gravity if I am moving this way, if I want to go another way, slow down, stop and then start moving in the other direction. But these seem to move in remarkable ways.
So he compares this with the motion of the spacecraft of Shalva when he attacked Dwaraka. In the 5th canto of Srimad Bhagwat, in the 10th canto, Shalva is a king who has his own spacecraft which is given by Surya, by Shiva. And his spacecraft moves in unpredictable ways.
And remarkable matches are there in that. So there was a MIT scientist. He decided that all these alien abduction stories are coming.
I will prove all of them are false. And he started interviewing all these people. He thought all these people are saying that oh I met aliens or alien spacecraft came over here.
It must all be bogus. That was his assumption. But as he interviewed over 2500 people he interviewed and all of them were mentally and physically healthy and well educated in respectable positions in society.
And he emerged a changed man. So I forget his name now. Stanley King or somebody like that.
I have a question on my website in this. There I mentioned that on aliens. So basically after he wrote the book, then even mainstream scientists have started taking this seriously.
So according to the Vedic understanding, earth does not have a monopoly on life. Life exists in other realms also. And even in the Mahabharata it is described that some of these other beings they come to the earth to attack the earth or take over the earth.
So the aliens sometimes people have the fear are the aliens good or the aliens bad? So aliens are both. There are devas who are good, there are asuras who are bad. So the point is that aliens surely exist and their existence is being demonstrated increasingly by modern science.
And many of their behaviors are also similar to the behaviors that are talked about in the Vedic literature. The Vedic literature talk about 8.4 billion species and there can be different entities from different realms who can come to the earth. That’s how actually neither modern science nor western religion can explain the existence of life.
These pictures show no life of any sort at all. I explained that the life exists at a different realm over there and that realm can’t be observed with our gross material senses. Of course now mainstream scientists have also proposed that even if we claim to have gone to the moon what about under the surface of the moon? There might be underground life.
We have not investigated that possibility. So all that an honest scientist can say is that life as we know it has not been found in the universe as we have observed it. It’s a conditional statement.
Life as we know it can’t be observed, has not been observed in the universe as we have seen it. So beyond that general theory of relativity says that if you can travel with the speed of light, you can go out of time factor. It means you can go in future and past.
Is it true? See the concept of time in relativity theory itself is an issue of huge debate and philosophers and scientists are themselves at loggerheads on this. The concept of time science treats as just another dimension. Like we have length mass, length, width, height, width like that.
They say time is another dimension. But there is a fundamental difference between time and other dimensions. And that difference is time’s flow is in one direction.
In length, I can go this way, I can go that way. But can I go backwards in time? Conceptually also it’s an issue. Time is not just like another dimension.
Krishna explains time is time I am. Time is a manifestation of Krishna, a non-personal manifestation of Krishna. So even scientists are divided about the issue of time travel, especially in the backward direction.
Say imagine a person X goes 100 years back and he sees his grandfather over there. And then the grandfather has not yet married and he goes and kills his grandfather there. Then what will happen? The grandfather will not marry, grandfather will not have his child and he will not have his father.
Then how will he be born? So actually speaking, the idea of time, as science understands it, science tries to reduce everything to its material measurable components. Science is material measurable at one level. But it’s not like other measurable parameters.
It is the energy of Krishna and Krishna manifests his omnipotence to the flow of time. So we can’t reverse the flow of time. That’s why the idea that can we travel in the past? If you want to say that can we see the past? Yes, there are trikalagya sages who can see the past.
But whether we can actually travel into the past, go into the past when the world is as it was, that is not possible. But we can get perception of the past and trikalagya sages, trikalagya, that means, trikal is bhoot, bhavishya and vartaman. Past, present and future, they can see all these three things.
That is one of the minor ashtasiddhis. The 11th canto of Mahabharata describes this. Scriptures speak about bacteria and viruses, only ants.
yas tvayindra gopam atveyindra maho svakarma So indra gopa that is described is a microbe. It’s a microscopic organism. Scriptures do talk about microscopes also.
Now the heliocentric, geocentric, I explained it briefly. I won’t go into the whole detail of that because the whole point is, it’s from a higher dimensional perspective. On my website, there is an answer to this question.
You can look at it later if you want. So again, can time machine be created? It depends on what we mean by a time machine. If the idea is that we can travel backwards, backwards is not possible.
Forwards is possible. Forwards is possible in the sense that we can get to see what is happening in the future. If we get the ashtasiddhis.
The ashtasiddhi, not the ashtasiddhi, one of the siddhis, that itself is like a time machine. But it’s not a gross time machine on which we sit and we go over there. It’s a subtle time machine in terms of that our mind’s consciousness gets expanded by which we can move forward in time.
There are a lot of questions about this geocentric, heliocentric. See, maybe I’ll speak a few words about this. Geocentric, heliocentric, this was an issue of big debate in, geocentric means earth is the center, heliocentric means sun is the center.
This is an issue of big debate in western scientific history. So, Copernicus and Galileo had the idea that the sun is at the center and the earth is moving around it. And the catholic church said no, no, that’s not true.
So, apparently after some observations were done, by which it was proven that the earth is moving around the sun. So the thing is, subsequently as researchers have moved forward, what they have understood is that we know for sure there is relative motion between the earth and the sun. There is relative motion.
Now, but who is stationary and who is moving? That is something which science itself is not sure of. Because, according to Einstein’s relativity, time-space is a continuum. And if time-space is a continuum, then in that continuum, what is actually in motion? See, generally what we think of when there is motion, okay, I am moving but the world in background is stationary and that is a frame of reference through which I am moving.
But if space-time itself is not the way it seems, as that’s what relativity theory is saying, then who is moving and how it is moving, that becomes a debatable issue. So from the Vedic perspective, the Vedic perspective also recognizes relative motion. There is relative motion between the earth and the sun and by that relative motion, seen from the Vedic perspective, the phases of the moon, the eclipses, the seasons, all these can be predicted and they have been predicted.
Vedic astronomy and astrology, it works. So, the models are two-fold. Again, it depends on from where I am looking.
If I am looking from the human perspective, it will seem to us that the sun is the center and the earth is moving around it. If I am looking from another perspective, from the Puranic perspective, actually it is said that Dhruvaloka and earth are in one axis and from the higher Deva perspective, all the planets are like a chandelier, they are moving around the Dhruvaloka. So, it’s a very different way of looking at it and you can look at the books.
There are these two books by Siddhartha Prabhu. They can study these books and if any of you are more interested, you can contact me separately. I can give you these books and I can tell you how you can study it further.
What do scriptures say about asexual reproduction as in bacteria? Sri Prabhupada explains in the purport of 3.38 that when the soul exhibits too much lust, then its capacity to exhibit lust gets decreased. Just like when the soul goes into the body of a tree, what is the sexual enjoyment for a soul in the body of a tree? Actually, there is no contact. Some seeds are coming from somewhere and the seeds touch some part of the cell and reproduction happens.
So, if one tries to engage in sex in a very indiscriminate way, then what happens is excessively indiscriminate, the capacity for sexual enjoyment is also taken away. So, in some species, the capacity for sexual enjoyment is taken away completely. Sex is one of the ways in which the soul enjoys in the material world.
But when the soul does extremely sinful activities and enjoys it without any restriction, then when the soul is abusing the sexual faculty in this way, even the sexual faculty is taken away. And that’s how there are species which talk about a sexual reproduction. That’s how these species happen.
So, because of their karmic reaction, they are deprived even of that facility to enjoy the pleasure of whatever little pleasure is there in mating. Can you please explain about time difference between different planetary systems? Time is the energy of Krishna. And as the energy of Krishna, what is the purpose of the energy? Actually, that is to give the conditioned soul the facility to enjoy and suffer according to his karma.
So, on the earth, the time flows at a particular rate. In the higher planets, the living beings have greater punya. And because they have greater punya, so, they can enjoy, they can enjoy more according to that rate of flow of time.
So, basically, modern science, even philosophically, there is a debate. Is there something called time existing which can be measured independent of the quantity? I see this is the time, but this is only the measurement of time. In science, there is a debate.
We measure time in terms of the motion of the earth around the sun or whatever. That’s how we measure time. But is time a separate entity existing apart from the ways by which we measure it? Vedic scriptures say yes.
It is the energy of Krishna. And so, our scientific conception of time is very much based on our capacity to measure time. Without the measurement correlation, we can’t conceive of time as an independent reality.
If I am getting too philosophical, don’t bother about it. This is only for those who have asked this question. The point is that time is a separate energy of Krishna.
And time as an energy of Krishna, he arranges that it flows differently at different rates. And that differential flow allows different souls to experience their karma in different ways. That’s why.
This is a long PPT of a full class, but I’ll just quickly go over this. This is the Vedic time model. So, modern science has an idea of time that is cyclic.
It is linear, you know, just move this way. But according to Vedic scriptures, time is cyclic. Satyuga, Tetayuga, Dapariya, Kaliyuga, it comes back again.
And all our measures of time, day, night, morning, afternoon, evening, summer, winter, rain, sun, they are all cyclic. So, cyclic understanding is more in harmony with nature. So, this is the western approach of time.
This is linear. The Vedic approach is cyclic. So, ultimately, time is the energy of Krishna, who is the absolute reality.
So, this is how time flows at different levels. So, here below we have the four yugas, Kaliyuga, Dapariya, Tetayuga, Satyuga. All four combined together is called as Chaturyuga or Viveyuga.
Then, this, we are in the 28th Chaturyuga. Like this, there are so many Manvantaras. And then, beyond that, there is Kalpa, which is the day of Brahma.
So, how old is our universe according to the scriptures? It is 311 million 04 trillion years old. 311 000 04 trillion years old, where Brahmaji is 51st year, 1st month, 1st day. That is his age right now.
So, there is, I am not explaining this right now. I am just showing that there is a systematic understanding given in the Vedic scriptures. Similarly, there is a Yuga Sandhya that is described, which is at the beginning and the end of every universe.
And then, we are talking about the, this particular day of Brahma. So, how it works out, all the mathematics are there. So, those of you who want, you can take this from me later.
This is how the day is given. I am just rushing through things, because things, there are lot of questions to answer. But, I have again a class on this Vedic time on my website.
Those who want, they can take it. You want to add something? Okay. thespiritualscientist.com You want to add something? Just one or two questions.
Is invisibility of human beings possible? Yes, if the human beings can acquire some siddhis, they can become invisible. There is a possibility. Now, how do the siddhis work? There is subtle matter.
Radheshyam was talking about ESP, extrasensory perception. So, modern scientists have found that the mind can influence matter in ways that physics can’t explain. How is that? For example, this is a common topic.
At a gross level, what has been indisputably documented is that, if you have a random number generator, it can generate any number from 0 to 9. The probability of one particular number coming is 1 out of 10. But now, if you have a person standing in front of the generator, and he wills, let 6 come, let 6 come, let 6 come, let 6 come, and he wills it. Now, what scientists found is, in Princeton University, they had a whole laboratory for this sort of research.
If we do millions of trials like this, then there is statistically significant increased occurrence of the number 6. So, over 1 or 2, it doesn’t come out. But over millions of observations, the percentage of 6 coming out doesn’t remain 10. It becomes 12, 13, 15, 18, 19.
In some people, it becomes 20, 25 also. So, it increases. Now, how it happens? It shouldn’t happen, but it happens.
And what is surprising is, that person doesn’t have to stand in front of the number generator also. He can be in some other number and just wills, let this number generator come like this. So, it happens.
On top of that, they tried, let the number generator be in America and let the person be in England. And across the Atlantic Ocean, the effect happens. So, not only that, let that person will on Monday and let the random number generator be played on Friday and still it happens.
So, now, that it happens is indisputably documented. How it happens, it’s incomprehensible for scientists. So, what does this indicate? That the mind interacts with matter in ways that modern science can’t explain.
Now, what is also known is that our thoughts, if you have positive thoughts, generally people have good health. If people have negative thoughts, their health tends to go bad. Now, this is again well documented.
So, our thoughts affect external gross material objects. So, in the case of siddhis, what happens is, Prabhupada says there is prapti siddhi. Prapti siddhi means somebody just extends his hand and from Kabul he will get a delicious fruit and offer it to you.
You may say, this is impossible, this is fantasy. But actually how it works is that there are higher dimensions and with higher dimensions the distances become less and less. Just like if there are only two dimensions, if I have to go from this, if I have to go from this end of the rattan to that room, then I go down and I go like this and I climb up.
But if I go diagonally, I can go faster. If I include one more dimension, the distances decrease. So, from A to B, if I go right angle, here, here and then C, the distance will be A, say this is X and this is Y. But if I go like this, it becomes X, it becomes lesser, the diagonal distance is less.
So, X square plus Y square by square root of that. So, if you introduce a third dimension, the distance becomes less. So, like that the yogis get access to higher dimensions.
And that’s how, the yogi is sitting here but through higher dimension he can right now from here go to Kabul and get the fruit. So, siddhis are something which are acting through the manipulation of subtle matter. So, when the yogi gets the capacity, then through the subtle matter he makes himself invisible.
That means he is there but he makes himself invisible by not being present in the gross three dimensional realm. That’s how invisibility is possible by yogic siddhis. But these yogic siddhis, Prabhupada explains, they are more or less like material technology.
They are not anything very significant in the sense that science also does some of these things and even if science can’t do something which siddhis can do, ultimately they are material. They cannot transform our heart, they cannot take us back to our heads. Does the 8.4 million species include aliens or only those living entities that exist on the earth? Is it possible that a living entity may get an alien body within his or her life birth? See, now when I said aliens exist, they should not be taken a license to say that everything that is depicted in E.T. movies is real.
There is a difference. There is science and there is science fiction. And much that is depicted in the idea of aliens is science fiction.
But there is, beyond all the hype, there are some substantial things that are real. So, yes, the 8.4 million species include aliens. Now we may have some fanciful conception of what aliens look like.
Little green men, something like that, people have the idea. But that is a conception that is formed more from scientific movies, science fiction movies, than from real life experiences. In most real life experiences, whatever people have talked about, the aliens interacted as if they were intelligent, often more intelligent than human beings.
So, the appearances, now we have to understand that outside the human species, there are other species which have the Kaal, the Roop Parivartan Siddhi. They can change their Roop. So, even if the aliens appear to us in a particular Roop, that can be a temporary Roop that they have taken.
So, we don’t have to think that that particular form has to be included in the 8.4 million species. That can be just a temporary form that they have taken also. We’ll take one more question now.
When all the technology was written, written to us in the form of Vedas and Puranas, so why people mostly use the scientific method? It’s a good question. See, the Vedic scriptures classify knowledge in terms of spiritual knowledge and material knowledge. This is Paravidya and Aparavidya.
So, now in Aparavidya, there are two ways to manipulate matter. One is by harmonizing with those who are the controllers of matter. That means if I want rains, what do I do? We satisfy Devatas, we do Yajna and the rains come.
The other is we forcibly try to manipulate matter. So, when Ravana was travelling in his Pushpaka, so at that time when the Pushpaka is going, there is no tail of smoke behind the Pushpaka. There is no pollution caused by Pushpaka.
Why? Because when Ravana is using his, Vimana Shastra is itself a full book which talks about Vimanas. That is, so the Vedic technology, it uses access to the beings who are controlling subtle matter. They are Devatas who control matter.
So, when we satisfy them, we get powers and we use those powers. In modern times, what has happened is because we have disconnected ourselves from the Devatas, we don’t do Yajnas. So, instead of controlling matter through the natural way, in terms of satisfying the Devatas and getting the power from them, we try to control matter in an independent way.
When we try to control matter in an independent way, that has karmic consequences. So, like airplane causes a pollution. So, in the Vedic times also technology was there, like Brahmastra was there, so many technology was there.
But, because they were harmonious with the principles of nature, they were not hazardous. But modern times, we put the controller aside and try to find out, ok, how can I control? And then, that leads to disaster. That’s why Martin Luther King, he said, we have guided missiles and misguided men.
So, Krishna consciousness has given us the intelligence by which we can learn to guide ourselves and we can guide others. So, that is the primary gift that Krishna has given us. All the misleading desires that are there, we can get rid of them and we can reorient the journey of our life towards Krishna and take as many souls as possible with us.
Thank you very much. Thank you.