Democracy and Impersonalism

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya Narayanam Namaskritya Naram chaiva narottamam Devim Saraswatim Vyasam Tato jayam udheerayet Nashtaprayeshwabhadreshu Nityambhagwatasevaya Bhagwateeruttama shloke Bhaktir bhavati naishthiki Krishnaya Vasudevaya Devaki Nandanayacha Nandagopakumaraya Govindayanamonamaha Reading from Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 4, chapter 21, chapter entitled Instructions by Maharaj Pruthu, verse number 6 Pujitah pujayam asav Pujitah pujayam asav Tatratatra mahayashah Tatratatramahayashah Pauranjanapadamsthamstham Pauranjanapadamsthamstham Preetah priyavarapradah Pujitah pujayam asav Tatratatramahayashah Pauranjanapadamsthamstham Preetah priyavarapradah Pujitah being worshipped Pujayam asav Offered worship Tatratatra here and there Mahayashah With a background of great activities Pauran The noble men of the city Janapadan Common citizens Tantan In that way Preetah Being satisfied Priyavarapradah Was ready to offer them all benediction Translation and purport by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swamishila Prabhupada Translation Both the important citizens and the common citizens Welcomed the king very heartily And he also bestowed upon them their desired blessings Purport A responsible king was always approachable by his citizens Generally the citizens great and common All had an aspiration to see the king And take benediction from him The king knew this And therefore whenever he met the citizens He immediately fulfilled their desires Or mitigated their grievances In such dealings A responsible monarchy is better than a so-called democratic government In which no one is responsible To mitigate the grievances of the citizens Who are unable to personally meet the supreme executive head In a responsible monarchy The citizens had no grievances against the government And even if they did They could approach the king directly For immediate satisfaction Om Gyanatmirandasya Gyananjana Shalakaya I am personally not at all qualified To speak on Bhagavatam And certainly not qualified to speak on the topic of leadership Which is being discussed over here But on the instruction of Vaishnavas As a service to them I will try to speak something So here we are seeing Prithu Maharaj as an exemplary monarch Being honoured by his citizens And Prabhupada is of course Whenever the theme of monarchy comes up Prabhupada's unique contribution In his exposition, in his presentation of the Vedic literature was That he presented it in comparison to modern society And as a superior alternative to modern society So Prabhupada compares monarchy with democracy So yesterday many devotees got initiation So many of them got the names ending with Ananda So Radheshyam Prabhupada and I were discussing in the morning So there was someone Ananda who is very respectable over here So just like Chaitanya Mahaprabhu took sanyasa in Mayavada Sampradaya To get respect and then he smashed Mayavada So like that devotees will have names with Ananda They will get respect from that and then they will refute That Ananda's teachings So since impersonalism is very widely spread from here Today I will discuss on the topic of democracy and impersonalism How actually democracy stems from and perpetuates An impersonal understanding of life in general You see, everywhere, wherever there is activity To be done based on inspiration Inspiration always comes from an empowered person Never from an organised institute Although we have democracy which is a form of government In which there is a cabinet of ministers And the chief person has to be elected, has to protect his power Still, when the political parties have their rallies Whom do they advertise? It's not just congress or BJP or so and so It's the person who is leading them And so that the whole propaganda It may be referring to one organisation But the propaganda is always centred on a person Because it is a person who is charismatic It is never an organisation that is charismatic Just like if we also organise a programme And we do a say we do a prerana programme And we say prerana programme organised by ISKCON And we don't tell who is the speaker The charm is not there Some people will come But not as many if there is a charismatic speaker And if we advertise a charismatic speaker Even the impersonalists advertise their personal leader Isn't it? They are teaching impersonalism But everywhere they show the person So everywhere inspiration comes from a person An empowered person Rarely from an organisation Same way in the government When a person is to be a When the government is a system But heading that and inspiring the citizens Cannot be the system It has to be a person Now of course there is a serious problem When people are empowered Empowered people can become corrupt They can become autocratic And in fact the whole idea of democracy Resulted because there was in the west Experience of empowered leaders becoming very corrupt So if we look at western history That was in 1789 There were two simultaneous things that happened There was a French revolution Where the king was removed And in America at the same time America adopted a charter of rights That means the first time in the world history A major nation adopted a Democratic form of government Before that everywhere in the world The known form of government was Was monarchy Of course that monarchy might have been a Cruel monarchy, might have been a good monarchy That's a different issue So in that towards the end of the 18th century For the first time this happened that They tried to remove one head And tried to put a panel of people as the head Now even then they have a prime minister or a president But he doesn't have as much power As a king would have So why did that happen? Because in Europe the kings at that time Were stinkingly corrupt Like when the French revolution started The peasants were starving They had no food And they did a protest rally and went to the king And they said give us bread So the king came out in his palace And he came with his queen And they were just enjoying life And the queen was So the king and the queen were so disconnected with reality That the queen said You know you want bread If you don't have bread then eat cakes They had no idea of what poverty was They had no idea of what the people suffering was And the citizens got so angry They just stormed the palace Destroyed the palace and gullitined Cut off the heads of the kings And then after that the idea of democracy came up Now Abraham Lincoln He was one of the presidents of America He said democracy is a terrible form of government But it is the best among terrible forms of government That was his idea Because they had no experience of a divine monarchy So he said yes it is a terrible form of government But it is the best among terrible forms of government That was his idea Because he did not have experience of better alternative Now what to speak of the kings In Europe there was a parallel authority Of the Christian clergy, the priests The pope was more powerful than even the king And in fact the different states in Europe The kings would be appointed by the pope And they were subordinate to the pope But if you look at the history of the Christian religion Some of the popes were terribly corrupt They would live in terrible luxury And they would take the collections Which were meant for god and use it for themselves And one particular time The catholic church started selling indulgences Selling indulgences means what That if you do a sinful activity You have to give an atonement Do some atonement for that They said that actually Now the atonement involves some physical fasting And some accepting some suffering But they started selling Ok if you commit this sin You give us this much money and you are free from the sin You give this much money and you are free from the sin And then And even if you have committed a sin in the past You give us this much money and you are free from going to hell also So this was appalling Of course in some sects of the church this is still going on But they were perpetuating material indulgence And they were themselves material indulging And that's why in the church also there was a rebellion Against the catholic church And there was protestants who came up And then the church became fragmented more and more In India also if you see Now in Indian history There is a sort of mysterious black hole In Indian history Where 5000 years ago we have Parikshit Maharaj And the Vedic kings Who were ideal Raj Rishis And then Then the only clear knowledge that we have of Indian history Is about 2000-2500 years ago When Buddha came and then Ashoka was there And Chandragupta Maurya was there And under Chandragupta Maurya and some other people India was largely united But basically what happened After the Kurukshetra war was That basically the central monarch in Delhi Or Hastinapur at that time Became weak Even at that time There would be many kings Like in Mahabharata war also we hear There was a king of Madras was Shalya The king of Panchal was Drupada or whoever But they were all subordinate to one king Who would do the Rajasuya Yajna So what happened after the Maharaj Parikshit Subsequent kings They could not hold their Maintain their hold on their subordinate kings Means what The subordinate kings Rejected the authority Of the emperor on top And then gradually what happened The kingdoms started getting fragmented Fragmented, fragmented Then there were big states Then there were small states Then there were small, small Groups of villages Which were ruled by one king And that's why Actually it's a great tragedy How the Muslims would come and conquer India Because they were not very How many thousands of Muslims can travel And come to a foreign land They were not very great in number And India is Even at that time it was so populated And the Indian kings Were to a large extent Dharmic But what happened was Because there was no one central authority There was no one person So these kings were fragmented among themselves And they could not have a United front against the invading Muslims That's why they conquered one, one, one, one king And eventually You see the Muslims came from The west But they came right the way up to Bengal over here That's why when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's time was there Nawab Hussain Shah was ruling When India got independence Bengal and Punjab These were the two states Which although they were largely in India They were not in Pakistan But they had They had almost equal Hindu-Muslim population And that's why Punjab and Bengal were divided into two So half of Punjab went to Pakistan Half of Punjab came to India And half of Bengal became Bangladesh That's why Some of our devotees when they go to Bangladesh Some of the holy places Just like the border is here And just a little distance away Are many of the holy places of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu But then just to go there We have to go through the permit Go through, get visa and everything But the point is The Muslims could penetrate here so much All the way across the Indian heartland Why? Because the Indian kings were disunited So what happens is When empowered authority can certainly become corrupt But if there is no empowerment If there is no empowered authority Then what happens? Then everything collapses Then everything collapses So now although there is a prime minister The prime minister is actually a figurehead Prabhupada uses the word figurehead Figurehead means That he is just For show's sake he is a head But he doesn't have much power Because he always has to worry Whether in the next elections I will get elected or not Or whether my subordinates will vote for me Whenever there are resolutions to be passed So because he is insecure He cannot take any strong measures And because he cannot take any strong measures He cannot really do any good to anyone Now we know when Srila Prabhupada spread his call Ultimately from the spiritual perspective It spread because There was the empowerment by Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Through Srila Prabhupada to his faithful followers But from the sociological point of view The scholars who studied ISKCON They said one of the key reasons For Srila Prabhupada's successfully spreading ISKCON so rapidly There is practically no other religious organisation Which has spread so much so fast In just 11 years Now we had Prabhupada established centres in practically all the major continents We had Rathyatras in all the major cities We had millions of devotees from everywhere So they said how is it possible? Because Prabhupada was one empowered leader And Prabhupada empowered his leaders So it was basically because of empowerment So without empowerment Nothing dynamic can happen Nothing extraordinary can happen If you look at any revolution throughout history There is always one inspiring empowered person If people are not empowered They cannot do anything good It's one thing to say that they will do bad If they are empowered That's true That's possible But if you don't empower them They can't do anything So the idea in democracy is that Because people may abuse their power So don't empower them But this is basically the impersonal idea Because form When we get attracted to form It leads to suffering Let there be no form Because relationships lead to conflicts Let there be no relationships Because activities lead to bondage Let there be no activities This is basically what? Impersonalism This is Mayavada So Mayavada or impersonalism When it is applied to the realm of governance It takes the form of democracy Because when a person is powerful He becomes corrupt So don't give him power Don't give him power Of course this is a simplistic analysis And we can go deeper into it This is not the forum for that But the principle is this Democracy basically depersonalises the government Highly And because of that Several things happen One thing is the leader who is at the top He can't do much Secondly the subordinates The citizens Don't feel inspired Because there is no inspiring leader Who can actually make changes Even if he wants to So if you see All over the world nowadays Where there is democracy The voter turnout is very less Because people are disillusioned Whether this leader comes Or that leader comes They know there is not going to be much difference Why? Because Mostly the leaders are corrupt And even if the leaders are good They don't have the power to do anything In the democratic system They don't have that power So We see how much impersonalism Has percolated everywhere So in Vedic If you see the kind of royal welcome That is being offered to Prithu Maharaj Something similar Is offered to the Prime Minister When say he comes to a country There is a whole army They stand with their guns raised And then they shoot the gun In the air Honour him And then they bow down They salute him And in this way This is a standard thing There is a reception Royal reception A grand reception For a person who is in power But So in that sense it's similar Of course Prithu Maharaj's reception Is much much grander But the principle is That In the modern society The king does not have much power The leader does not have much power And that's why He cannot really do much good So Hare Krishna So impersonalism Is partially right And partially wrong Partially Hare Krishna Partially right means They do recognise The impersonal do recognise That material form Is a cause of bondage Illusion Material activities Lead to suffering Material relationships Cause so much stress and Agony That part of their analysis is right Similarly The part of the analysis Which came from the western As well as Indian history That yes When an empowered person Is When there is an empowered person He becomes corrupt He becomes autocratic That part of the analysis Is right But what the impersonalists Forget Or reject The Brahmavatis forget The Mayavadis reject What? That there is Spiritual form There is a person Who is perfect And those who follow him Will also be perfect To the extent they follow him Perfectly They will be perfect Just like when we take To a spiritual path Yesterday many devotees Got initiated When people want to take To a spiritual path And they want They have to take initiation They are afraid Now what if I choose A wrong teacher What if I choose a teacher Who may Who may not lead me properly People have that fear But the principle is what That there is One supreme leader Who is in charge of this world He is perfect And it is his instruction That I should surrender To an authority It is Krishna who tells In the Bhagavad Gita That we should go to a guru 4.34 So very important was Prabhupada would quote it very often That means When we are surrendering To authority We are not just surrendering To that particular authority We are surrendering to God And God is a perfect authority So if we have faith in God As a perfect authority Then with that faith in God We surrender to our immediate authority Now there is the possibility As is rightly As people fear That a spiritual teacher May not lead me properly So Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswatha Thakur Wrote a famous essay called Drishya Drishta Vichar Drishya Drishta Vichar The seer and the seen So he would say That the conditioned soul Thinks that he is the seer And the whole world is To be seen by him That means he is the enjoyer And he is to see and enjoy All the objects of this world But he says the Vedic scriptures teach that The Lord is the seer And we are all meant to be seen by him We are all meant to be seen by him So when we come to darshan We don't come here to see the Lord We come to be seen by the Lord So there in the seer and the seen He say in that essay Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswatha Thakur says That That One need not fear That one may Be misled by a spiritual teacher Unless One himself Consciously or unconsciously Wants a misleading teacher That means If a person is sincere Sooner or later He will come to a true teacher But if he is If he himself wants to be cheated Then he will be cheated So in principle If we understand the point that there is one supreme authority And actually I am submitting to him When I am submitting to my Immediate authority Then we don't resent that principle Our experience In this world is always of Imperfect authorities When we are small children We think our parents are perfect And then we love our parents And we obey our parents But then as we start growing up We start seeing that our parents also have imperfections And we have teachers And we find the teachers have imperfections So we have experience In our life of imperfect authorities And because of the experience of imperfect authorities We cannot put faith In any authority But the problem is That we don't have direct experience Of Krishna as authority Who is perfect So again this is Mayavada Because the authority that I have experienced is imperfect There cannot be any perfect authority That's also impersonalism So yes there is Krishna Who is a perfect authority And to the extent Somebody is following that perfect authority To that extent he is perfect So the Essential difference Between the kings who became corrupt in the west Or in the east And Between kings like Pruthu Maharaj or Parikshit Maharaj Or Maharaj Yudhishthir Is that These Vedic kings Were Devoted to and were following The supreme king The perfect king Krishna In fact who is Actually qualified to be a leader Only one who is Willing to be led by Krishna Only one who is willing to be led by Krishna He is qualified to be a leader And So the real solution Is like Yes material relationships Material qualities, material forms All lead to suffering So the diagnosis is correct But the prescription is wrong The Mayavadis diagnosis is correct But their prescription is Give up all forms, give up all relationships That prescription is wrong The real prescription is Find out Where there is perfect form Where there are perfect relationships Where there are perfect qualities So same way, yes the diagnosis Is that authorities when they get power They become corrupt, the kings have become corrupted But find out Where the real Prescription is Find out where there is a perfect authority So God, Krishna is the perfect authority And one who follows him Becomes a perfect authority So the Solution is not to reject the Principle of an empowered leader But to find out How an empowered leader can be Trained in a way in which he will not become Corrupt, that's why Venkata Prabhupada Went to the west, he said that I have come here to look for Brahmanas Brahmanas means people who are Spiritual, intellectual In quest of the ultimate truth of life And they are seeking That and living in harmony with that So Now this Applies both ways To the extent a person To the extent a leader is following God, to that extent he is perfect And when we become devotees Many of us become preachers To some extent we also become leaders So when we become Leaders, what is our Qualification? Actually for being leaders And not that we also become misleaders It is to the extent That we are ourselves being led by God So the basic level of Being led by God is Following his Instructions, so when we take initiation We commit ourselves To those activities Which will enable us to be led by God See What is it that makes, what leads Most people? It is not God But it is their material desires It is Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Mohamad That is what is leading most people So when we take a vow I will not do these sinful activities That means I take a vow That I will not be misled By these Anarthas in my heart And when I chant my rounds Basically what does it mean? Krishna Engage me in your service, that means Let me be led by you So basically actually if you look at it From this perspective Initiation means actually We are being prepared, trained To become leaders And Bhakti Siddhant Swetakar Would use Enormous opulence in Krishna's service In fact here He was a Here in Calcutta itself when he preached He was a revolutionary preacher of truth He would use Rolls Royce cars And he would wear a suit boot And he would have such opulence And technology for preaching So when people would criticise He would challengingly ask Who do you think God has created The opulence for? Is it for materialistic people? No, God has created all the resources of this world To be used in his service And who is it that is using it in his service? It is the sadhus So therefore He said all the best conveyances Of best appliances Best technologies Should be used For Krishna's service By those who are dedicated to his service So in principle To the extent A person is led by Krishna To that extent he can become a leader And Understanding this principle and following it Deeply enables us To actually Do things To subordinate ourselves to our leaders And to mould ourselves To train ourselves, to purify ourselves So that we can also become leaders And we see this principle If we look at the Ramayana Dashrath Maharaj was the king When Dashrath Maharaj Felt that I should retire now We have seen many times In the Vedic culture, the kings have great anxiety That I don't have a son That is not just A material anxiety Oh I don't have any child like people have But you think I have to hand over The kingdom to a responsible Successor So that would be their anxiety So then he consulted his courtiers His ministers The sages also like Vashishtha And they all agreed that Ram, his beloved elder son Was the most qualified to be the king So Now Did Kaikeyi Hate Ram? Actually Kaikeyi loved Ram Kaikeyi loved Ram As much as she loved her own son But Kaikeyi was misled By Bantra And she never really hated Ram She had Nothing against Ram per se But when she had to choose Between Ram And Bharat As king She decided that Bharat should be the king And then She had Ram exiled to the forest So When Lord Ram was exiled To the forest Dashrath Maharaj passed away Because of The agony of separation And then when Bharat came To know about this, Bharat was so angry With Kaikeyi and he said If you had not been a woman I would have killed you today But I cannot kill you Because you are a woman I reject you as my mother You are not my mother You are the goddess of destruction Incarnated in our family To cause the ruin of our family I reject you And he walked away Shatrughan wanted to attack and kill Mantra Because she was the cause But then Bharat stopped her No, she is a woman, we cannot do that But then when They went to the forest At that time Bharat Maharaj He was not yet coronated as the king But he was going to be the king So everybody was calling him Bharat Maharaj So he said that Lord Ram We requested Lord Ram Please you take the king He says I can no longer I can no more take the royal throne Then can a goat Take the ornaments Bent for the elephant He says I cannot do that But Lord Ram said no He says I am duty bound To my father I have to follow my father Then yes if our father's word Is to be followed Then his son has to be exiled I will stay in exile and you go back and become the king You see now In modern times If there is a If there is a wealthy businessman who passes away The sons fight I will be the successor Here we see between Ram and Bharat also there is a fight But the fight is not I will be the successor, you be the successor That is the fight that is there But eventually what happened Lord Ram persuaded Bharat you be the king But what was Bharat Maharaj's mood He went and put the Bharat Bharat He gave his own Sandals And they were enthroned by Bharat And Bharat was ruling as a Representative Of Lord Ramachandra So Bharat Maharaj was Understanding that Lord Ram is the real king and I am merely His representative And he ruled Very well It is described in the Ramayana that he ruled As well as Lord Ram ruled after he came back But he did not take Any of the opulence for himself He Did all the responsibilities Of the king without taking any of the Facilities of the king, it is very difficult to do that So there are different Ways In which Renunciation is expressed The Mayavadi The Mayavadi idea of renunciation is I am so renounced that I don't touch money I don't Have any contact With material opulence, yes that is one level Of renunciation but a Deeper level of renunciation is to understand That Actually when I am saying I am a renouncer I am still very much I conscious Isn't it, I am a renouncer That means I think I am an independent Entity Who exists independent Of any authority and I renounce all this But a devotee's understanding of renunciation Is much deeper A devotee not only just renounces The external world But he renounces that ego That sense of an independent I A devotee renounces that by understanding that This world belongs to Krishna And I belong to Krishna So the world Belongs to Krishna and I belong to Krishna And because I belong to Krishna It is my duty As a servant of Krishna To offer the things of this world to Krishna And to offer the world Things of this world to Krishna If I am their representative I may have to accept them So Prithu Maharaj is accepting so much Honour over here The Vyasa Puja of the spiritual master The spiritual master Accepts honour Worship So one time when Srila Prabhupada was in America One of his Disciples mother came there And When she met Srila Prabhupada She said Swamiji Your disciples worship you So She was almost accusing Srila Prabhupada How can you take worship Don't you have any shame How can your disciples worship you Prabhupada said yes The disciple must worship his spiritual master I also worship my spiritual master And Prabhupada showed her the photo And Prabhupada said I would bow down to him So the principle is not That the guru accepts worship But doesn't keep it for himself So that lady when she came She had no conception That somebody would take honour Not for oneself But for somebody else That people don't have any experience at all How can you let yourself be Worshipped But yes Prabhupada said I am taking worship on behalf of my spiritual master Like the tax collector Or the Viceroy Who would collect the tax on behalf of The king in Indian government So here Prithu Maharaj Is accepting all the respect And offering it to the supreme lord Of course in case of Prithu Maharaj It's slightly different because he is himself Ashaktavish avatar of the supreme lord So the principle here Is that Mayavadi idea is that Let there be no personality Let there be no form Let there be no relationships And therefore let the government also Be impersonal And that's what leads to the idea of democracy But impersonalism Ultimately leads to chaos It leads to disorder It leads to suffering It doesn't solve the problem So it is our As Srila Prabhupada wanted His followers To become leaders So it is our responsibility To purify our hearts To dedicate ourselves Like I said in the initiation lecture A solemn and serious vow To dedicate ourselves to the process of purification A solemn and serious vow To dedicate ourselves to the process of purification By which actually we can become Worthy to be led by Krishna And then we can lead others As Krishna says A qualified leader Does not have to know everything that is there in the world But what he needs to know is How can I move towards Krishna How can I take others towards Krishna And that Krishna gives If We serve Krishna with devotion So It is our great fortune that Among all the thousands and thousands Of Social, political Cultural And pseudo-spiritual leader that were there We came actually in contact with The true leader Srila Prabhupada And Srila Prabhupada's Success was not that just he was a leader One aspect of Srila Prabhupada's success Again if you see The idea of The philosophy which says Srila Prabhupada is the only Leader and there are no leaders apart from him That's also actually impersonal In the name of Accepting Srila Prabhupada Srila Prabhupada's success was not just that he was a great Leader but his success was also that He created great leaders So we see many of his illustrious Disciples are themselves Great leaders so we are fortunate And everybody Is actually being led by something Or someone Mostly it's their own material desires, their own ego Or others material desires, others ego, whatever But we are fortunate That we came in contact with a Pure devotee who is led by Krishna And who is also Teaching us how to be led by Krishna in our life And To the extent we follow The instructions of the devotees The instructions of our authorities externally The extent we show Krishna that we want to be led The more Krishna will start Leading us internally Actually a brahmana Is rarely Subordinate to any authority A brahmana is independent But why is he given that independence You know this In Bengal itself there was Arya Samaj, there were so many people like that Especially the followers of Ambedkar, they hated brahmanism They said these brahmanas were So corrupt, these brahmanas are the cause of The downfall of India But Why were the brahmanas given so much Power, so much freedom, so much honour They were independent Because they chose to be dependent on God They chose to be led by God And that's why they were given that Independence, but unfortunately when those brahmanas Just became Materialistic brahmanas, naturally the evils Crept in, and which is what all These so called reformers saw They never saw the original brahmanas Who were pure, but Prabhupada Was like a sage Who was transposed From the Vedic ages into modern times You know he was pure Like the ancient Vedic sages were pure But at the same time He was there in the Kali Yuga And he knew how to present Krishna Consciousness Preach Krishna Consciousness in Kali Yuga How to convert Kali Yuga Souls into devotees That was his genius And just as Here, Prithu Maharaj was Offered affection And he gave blessings Similarly we see whenever Prabhupada would come To any airport There would be Little dozens of jubilant devotees Eager to welcome him Eager to garland him, eager to dance for him So the reporters would come And the reporters would be flabbergasted What is happening? They had not seen such welcome even from a film star Or a pop star or whatever Now film stars when people come They don't love the person They love basically the abilities And they want to exploit That person for their enjoyment But even for such a person they would not see Such extraordinary welcome So they asked Prabhupada One reporter asked Prabhupada I think it was in San Francisco airport Swamiji you got such an extraordinary reception Is this a regular affair at every airport that you go? So Prabhupada replied I am not really concerned about What reception I get I am concerned about what reception The message I have got gets So Prabhupada Was not taking all that reception for himself So Prithu Maharaj Is not taking all this for himself He is saying that yes If devotees are eagerly receiving their spiritual master What does that mean? That means they are happy and vibrant in their Krishna consciousness And they are eager to welcome a person Who is giving them more Krishna consciousness So That affection, that reciprocation That welcome, that is a sign of the health Of Krishna consciousness Of the devotees and seeing that The spiritual master is happy So Prabhupada writes in the NOI He says that the Krishna consciousness Movement is nourished by the Six fold loving exchanges By giving gifts, receiving gifts By sharing the heart, by hearing Others share their heart By Giving prasad, by honouring prasad So this is what is being Done over here The citizens are Offering their gifts, they are offering their words of Appreciation for the Exemplary leadership that Prithu Maharaj is showing And Prithu Maharaj is Redressing their grievances if they have any He is giving them maledictions This is So In the Vedic monarchy Although the name is monarchy Or the name is there is a king Who is absolute authority and there are citizens Who are subordinate to him But the essential relationship is not the relationship Of law, it is the relationship of Love And that's why we see Prabhupada's disciples They were ready to work so hard for him Risk their lives And absolutely surrender to his authority How would they do that? No law could have made them do that It was love When Shila Prabhupada's Disciples were living in London In John Lennon's bungalow So he had Given them an outhouse to live and he said You renovate this place and then you can also Stay in this place And he See from his bungalow These devotees were working with such Extraordinary zeal Day and night they were continuously Working, working, working And they transformed the Whole thing in a few days in anticipation That when Prabhupada would come So When Shamsundar went to meet Shila Prabhupada Went to meet John Lennon and he said Now Shila Prabhupada is going to come Soon So Would you like to meet him? He said yes, certainly I would like to meet him He said I would like to ask him What is the secret That makes his followers So dedicated to him What is the secret? Because he had so many Fans but none of his fans were so dedicated to him So what is the secret that makes his followers so dedicated to him? So He didn't know that, that was love, that was spiritual love Prabhupada was Radiating, sharing Krishna's love And the devotees were reciprocating With that So when there is no love When there is only law that is seen Then Monarchy can certainly Become autocracy, it can become dictatorship And it will appear a terrible form of government But when the principle of Love is underlying everything The king loves the citizens, the citizens Love the king Then monarchy is a Far more congenial And far more effective Form of government Than the democracy which tries to Rule on law but in which the king is powerless And the citizens are dissatisfied So this is Sri Prabhupada's legacy To us That he has taught us That love is not just for relationships In the family but love permeates Everything, love permeates all relationships Including the relationship between the Authority and the subordinate, the government And the citizens and it is That love by which Sri Prabhupada Attracted so many devotees And by a fraction Of that love that we have got through his followers We have come to his lotus feet And we can try to share that With others as much as possible for us So I seek Your blessings so that I can faithfully Follow my authorities And myself become gradually led by Krishna So that I can also help others in whatever Small way is possible So I will summarise Started by talking about how Inspiration always Comes from an empowered leader Never from an organisation Whether it is a democratic Party or whether it is an Impersonalist organisation They always advertise a person Now empowered Leaders can become corrupt Become corrupt and that happened in the west That happened in India But if the principle of an empowered Leader is rejected Then what happens? Then the leader that comes in If he is disempowered he cannot do anything And that idea is actually Mayavada Because the leader with power is bad Give him no power Because forms are causing suffering So let there be no form, let there be no relationship So Mayavada Applied to the realm of Governance takes the form of Democracy Then we discussed How How can there be a pure leader There is a perfect leader Krishna And one who follows him Perfectly he is a perfect leader And the pure devotee Like Srila Prabhupada is such a Leader and by following him we can all Become leaders And to the extent we become such leaders To that extent we can actually benefit the world And in such leadership The following is not based on Law, it is based on Love and that's why The surrender, the dedication And the productivity, the output That comes from this is far Greater than what can come from any material Counterpart Whether it be in governance or whether it be in In the corporate world Or even in family So essentially the relationships are based on love And even the king And the subordinate subjects That's also a relationship based on love And those loving relationships Are the basis of our spiritual life Thank you very much Is there any one question Yes Thank you very much For a wonderful class I I I 100% agree about this Subject that monarchy Prabhupada mentioned is higher than Democracy My question is Then why Srila Prabhupada In Escon When he left he made this governing body commission And left whole Escon To be led by like Democratic organisation And And he found in his Spiritual masters organisation It was failure because They tried to make one person Acharya But in history we see That Sankaracharya They had also one after another Acharyas Till now there is one Acharya Sankaracharya In Swaminarayan also They have one after another Swaminarayan Acharya All Sampradaya is like that But Prabhupada saw that Recent Modern Civilisation Everywhere in the world The monarchy has gone Most of the places I don't know exactly but Everyone believe now in democracy So because of this time Place and circumstances Prabhupada also then compromised That traditional Idea of monarchy and mad Escon to be led by Like this GBC Did Prabhupada Compromise in that Vedic standard Of monarchy Why now Prabhupada very much Strong if you make One Acharya it will Collapse like gaudiya math So This is my question why Prabhupada Made GBC Which almost like democratic Organisation Yes Thank you Actually it's an important question Hare Krishna I didn't have time to address it in the class But Ravindra Swaruprao One of the GBC members has done an elaborate analysis Of this So the first point he makes Is that There is the Administrative hierarchy And there is the spiritual hierarchy So In the spiritual hierarchy The autocracy is still preserved The monarchy The Guru is still the monarch The Guru has authority over the life of his Disciple and for the disciple The Guru is a representative Of God so that Has certainly been preserved by Srila Prabhupada It is not that What a disciple should be doing Is decided by democracy By a number of people A person can have many shiksha gurus But he has only one diksha guru Only one diksha guru So Spiritually speaking The spiritual chain of authority Of there being one monarch One authority that has been preserved by Srila Prabhupada With respect to managerial aspect From a practical point of view It was not that Srila Prabhupada Made a GBC after he left Srila Prabhupada made a GBC Even when he was present And if I am not mistaken it was in 71-72 itself Almost 5 years before he left And at that time itself He had handed over Much of the management To the GBC And Srila Prabhupada also told the devotees You should follow your logo of GBC authority And only if you have some serious problems You would let them come to me So I feel the spiritual hierarchy And the administrative hierarchy are two different things Administratively speaking Because it is such a big organisation Although Srila Prabhupada was Extraordinarily Unprecedentedly Empowered But still even Srila Prabhupada several times Said this is not one man's work To manage a worldwide organisation With millions of devotees And more than 100 temples Srila Prabhupada also wanted assistance So that is more of an administrative Arrangement So if there is one Acharya To look after, to supervise Everything everywhere in Iskcon The demands on that One person would be huge And if you see As I was telling earlier Although there was One emperor For the world Still there were kings And the kings Would be the authorities In their local zones The king of Madras Say Shalya was actually the king And he was worshipped as the king And for the people under him It was not really very important That he was subordinate to Yudhishthira Maharaj He was There is no doubt about it But for them he was practically speaking all in all So that sort of system Where there is a hierarchy Of authorities Was there even in earlier times So from the administrative point of view Dividing the world into zones And Almost if you see to a large extent We talk about a nuclear family and a joint family So Every Iskcon centre Is like a nuclear unit Now it depends on the leader Within that particular centre How he will expand that centre And Prabhupada wanted it like that At one particular point In 1971-72 The devotees were trying to centralise authority But Prabhupada opposed that He said don't centralise, don't kill individual initiative And that in the history of Iskcon Was a very significant time Significant decision by Shalya Prabhupada Because of which the growth of Iskcon was not choked So from the Administrative point of view For the purpose of convenience For the purpose of The leaders not becoming overburdened By too many Responsibilities So the GBC is administrative Authority Now of course The gurus Are also in one sense under the GBC There is no doubt about that The spiritual masters are also Members of the GBC And ultimately the GBC is the governing Authority of Iskcon But if you see that's more Because of the administrative necessities Of a global movement Rather than Because of some Kalyuga deficiencies of The solar Kalyuga time-place circumstance It's more of a Administrative necessity And yes even Vedic times when we say a brahmana Would be independent but still The brahmanas would also have a body And the brahmana Body would come to a particular Conclusion and then they would decide So it's not that the GBC is unprecedented GBC also The The kings in Vedic times would have Two kinds of ministers One would be the political ministers Who were like say Dashrath Maharaj had Sumantra Who was like his political minister And he had Vasishtha Muni Who was like a spiritual advisor, spiritual minister So they would have in their court Two kinds of bodies And that the bodies Together would give the decision So yes the group Of spiritual leaders working together May not be very common but it is not Unprecedented There are precedence for that also In the past also it has happened And One factor might be that because of Kalyuga Srila Prabhupada May have Or his spiritual master may have felt the need for Some specific or special System but more than the More than Kalyuga Because we have Kalyuga Here More than Kalyuga it's more of Administrative arrangement Even now if we see The primary inspiration of devotees Comes from Srila Prabhupada And their spiritual master That kind of inspiration Cannot come from the GBC From the body So the body is there And it is important to have a body So that The devotees Can in a united Way coordinate the international Mission to some extent But every spiritual master Has his disciples And he has that Authority over the disciples and that authority Is based on love So that is the basis of The expansion of ISKCON Does it answer your question? It's more of administrative necessity Rather than a spiritual A compromise Okay There are a lot of questions So how long should we go on? Who is Yes Yes Thank you for a very wonderful class And The point you brought about The relationship That's very excellent And the essence of our So basically I want to appreciate And secondly what Ashray Goran Prabhu has Put the question and you replied So in that I would feel that What Srila Prabhupada did And because He is Beyond our Understanding So under some In these type of Finer issues We cannot make judgement On some one particular Aspect It is beyond our Conceiving Capacity That how and what he has decided And what is the governing You know principle in that So this is the Humble opinion Thank you so much It's wonderful class Ultimately we should follow Srila Prabhupada He told that we should do this So even when we are following GBC We are following one authority Srila Prabhupada told us to follow GBC You want to add something? I would like to add something And perhaps if no one else Has anything else to add I would like to ask one question So coming to mind The principle that Prabhuji raised is Where is the monarchy In ISKCON That was essentially the question So we see Monarchy president In the form of Temple president Prabhupada set up the system Temple president Vice president Treasurer So in the temple The temple president He serves as a monarch He is the bottom line The GBC Will give so many guidelines And policies Set the ball in motion But when it comes to applying The situation according to Time, place, circumstances And people The temple president He makes the bottom line decision And then devotees should have faith And not authority As representing GBC Representing Prabhupada Representing Krishna So in the form of temple president On the local level We see monarchy is present May I ask a question? I was very interested In many different Topics that you covered And one that particularly Struck my interest Was this concept of Intervention In others karma By representative of God And you brought the concept of Selling What is it called? Indulgences Selling indulgences So We see In the Vedic system The spiritual master Gives Diksha And he accepts the sins The previous karma of disciple So that's intervention In the disciple's karma And then we see in the Christian world That the Christians Some Christians explain That Jesus died on the cross Freeing us from our sins That's intervention In their karma And as you mentioned today In that Christian Administration The activity of selling Indulgences, giving money And freeing them from sin Intervention in others karma So could you kindly comment A little bit more on the general principle Of intervention in karma By representatives of God Or spiritual authorities And maybe compare and contrast Those three different levels The Vedic, the Christian ethos And then the Materialistic so called Christian ethos Firstly There is This question is How does Intervention in our karma take place So if somebody says that You have done this particular sin Now you give the church this much money And you will be freed from the sin Does that actually work So This is actually a perversion of Atonement Atonement means there are certain Things prescribed in the scriptures That may be the Vedic scripture or that may be the Biblical scripture By which One basically expresses To God that I did something wrong And I admit it I am sorry for it and I am ready to suffer for it So it's like a criminal surrendering to the Policeman rather than the policeman Having to chase and catch him and punish him So that act of the criminal having Surrendered Weighs in his favour eventually when he is brought for Judgement that he admitted and Surrendered so he will get a slightly lesser sentence So that principle Of admitting one's sins and willing to be subordinate Willing to Take punishment for that that is actually The basis Of God's intervention That we accept it And we are ready to Ready to take the suffering for it Now this can happen at a material level And at a spiritual level At a material level when say people Use Jyotisha To find out okay now Shani is bad in my life At this particular time so I will wear this Sort of Jewel or something like that So this what does it actually do It doesn't free us From that particular sin But it re-sequences our Sinful reactions and our good reactions That means Say if in my life's journey I am at this particular point At this particular point I am going to get ten forms of problems From different directions Financial problem, relationship problem, health problem Mental problem, this problem That problem and I will become completely Overwhelmed by that So that is because of my own past Karma which is coming to me through Shani say Saturn then if I appease Saturn at that particular time Then Saturn has no Capacity to stop that karma for coming To me but Because of my appeasement of Saturn All of it doesn't hit me at that time So then it comes To me maybe in a much smaller scale Which I can manage But the remaining karma is still there And it will come to me later That's material intervention So that's through the principle of atonement But beyond that What Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita That is that means here Basically I want to go on with my material life And I don't want the material Reactions to come to me or I want to check them But in When we surrender to Krishna I don't want to go on with my material life I just want to turn to you Krishna I want to live the life That you want me to live And then you guide me then actually Krishna Takes away the sinful reactions And then also Krishna may or may not Take away the sinful reactions Krishna basically uses Our reactions to free us from material Existence at that time So sometimes our karma may still come to us Devotees may also meet with accidents Devotees may also get cancer Devotees may also have relationship problems But through it all Devotees go closer to Krishna As well as Radhaman Maharaj Was telling that there is anxiety In the life of a devotee and a non devotee But a non devotee's anxiety Only leads to Frustration and misery A devotee's anxiety Leads to purification and Greater shelter of Krishna That's the difference, both of them have anxiety So Prabhupada gives the example That Policeman beating a criminal And a mother beating a child It's beating, both of them is beating But one is in law, the other is in love So the karma May come for both of them in one sense For a devotee and a non devotee But there is a world of difference Between the two So therefore that is Third level as I said Materially there is bona fide way of doing it And what the church was doing was not bona fide at all Now spiritually There is a bona fide way of doing it if you surrender to Krishna And follow him But in much of modern Christianity It's only a namesake One accepts Jesus as a saviour And one goes on with one's life And Jesus doesn't say that That alone Will lead to freedom, Jesus says You will be judged by your works I think in Paul or John's there is a statement You will be judged by your works, so actually We have to mould our life according to the teachings of Jesus Only then Jesus will Take the reactions Same way Prabhupada said one time One person came just for initiation Took initiation and never came back And Prabhupada said I never initiated him I never initiated him at all Although he attended the initiation ceremony He got a name, Prabhupada gave him the beads Prabhupada said I never initiated him So we cannot cheat Krishna It's to the extent we reorient Our life according to what he is Teaching, to that extent He will remove the suffering from us So Rudayana Maharaj tells the principle of karma Says that The principle of karmic reaction Or karmic suffering is That God gives us The minimum Suffering necessary To bring about a positive change Which will not be brought out By any lesser suffering The minimum Suffering necessary to bring about a positive Change which will not be brought About by any lesser suffering So the purpose is not Suffering, the purpose is The change So sometimes a certain quantity of suffering Has to come only then we will change So if a devotee is ready to change Himself then Krishna doesn't have to give the suffering Because Krishna is not personally Particularly interested in the suffering He is interested in the change in the heart In the change in the life of a person Does that answer your question? Thank you very much, we will talk other questions We will take one to one.