Bhagavatam study 15 – 1.4.1-13 – The questions reveal the questioners level

Thank you Vishwamit Bhagavatam chapter 4 1.4.1 yeah so so the speaking the Munis who had assembled for a long time for performing sacrifice 2.1.4 the elderly head of the assembly Kulpati Kuladasan means a dynasty, it here means an assembly. Sutam.
On to Suta Bhavruchaha. One who was learned. Shaunako Abravit.
After Suta Goswami spoke, what was spoken in the previous chapter, Shaunaka, she who was the elderly head of the assembly, and was himself very learned, and who was head of the assembly that had gathered for performing prolonged sacrifices, he spoke, Shaunako Vacham, Suta Suta Mahabhaga, Vadano Vadatam Varam, Katham Bhagvatam Punyam, Yadah Bhagavan Shukaham. So Suta Suta Mahabhaga, you are very fortunate. The repetition indicates ecstasy, repetition indicates reverence.
Vadano Vadatam Varam. Vadano. Please speak this.
Vadatam. Vadatam means those who are capable of speaking. Varam.
You are the best among those who are capable of speaking. Katham Bhagvatam Punyam. So Katham is how or what.
But Katham is story. So here is Katham Bhagvatam Punyam. The pious story of the Bhagvatam.
Please recite it, he is saying. Yadah Bhagavan Shukaham. As it was spoken by Bhagavan Shukaham.
Just as Shukadeva Goswami had spoken it earlier. Please speak it now, he is saying. Now.
So. We are moving from the background discussions which were happening. So there was the overview of the Bhagvatam in the process of in terms of how it how the process of devotion service is is the top most process and how it works that was discussed in the second chapter.
And in the third chapter discussed the object of devotion, the various incarnations of the Lord and it indicated also Krishna’s supreme position. So now Vishwanath Rishi is asking please speak about the Bhagvatam as it was spoken by Suta Goswami. So in what period? So in what time and what place was it spoken? Sanjodita Krishna Sanjodita means inspired by.
From where was he inspired? So now he is talking about two levels of origination of the Bhagvatam. One is in terms of a conversation and the other is in terms of literature. So the Bhagvatam as a conversation took place between Shukadeva Goswami and Parikshit Maharaj and as a literature it was composed by Vyasadeva.
So here he is asking the second level of origination. He says where did Vyasadeva get the inspiration to compile this and where and when did he actually do it? So it is said that a wise person has six friends who, what, when, where, why and how and these can teach us all a lot. So accordingly it is said over here that here he learned like this.
So similarly here Sanatoshi is actually asking where and when? It’s a natural human interest when we hear about some incident, we want to know its location, time and space. That gives us some orientation to grasp it. So if we hear bomb has exploded and we want to know where did it happen? When did it happen? Or if we hear that a particular book has won the Nobel Prize in literature.
Who wrote it? When was it written? So place and time helps us gain some rooting in grasping the complex reality of this world and in navigating the complexities of this world. So here it is said that Sage Vyasadev, his son was a great yogi, maha yogi. He was equipoised towards everyone and he did not have any He did not see any vikalpas.
He did not see any alternatives. Vikalpa is alternative. Nirvikalpa means not seeing any alternative.
That means seeing only one thing. So he was absorbed in oneness. Was fixed in one reality.
He was fixed beyond ignorance. Nidra is ignorance here. He was very deep, unexposed and he moved around like a fool.
So now sometimes when a speaker asks a question when a person, the audience asks the question, one of the first questions that comes in the speaker’s mind is how much does the questioner know? That means at what level should I answer the question? Is the questioner also a seasoned person who knows the fundamentals very well and knows some advanced stuff also or is the questioner a neophyte and I have to start from the basics. So now Shana Krishi is asking a question where and when did this happen? But then he is also telling that he is not utterly ignorant about Shukadeva Swami. He knows.
The details he is mentioning. He was the son of Vyasadev and he was himself an advanced yogi who was fixed in impersonal realisation and he acted as if he was a fool when he was moving around in the world. … … … … … … … … … So this was described as incident which is repeatedly cited to demonstrate or to drive home the comparative positions of Shukadeva Swami and Vyasadev, Vyasa and Shuka.
So it said that … … … So earlier while offering obeisances to Shukadeva Swami, Shukadeva Swami had said how when Shuka left home, his father went after him and called him. But only … … So he had said that only the trees responded. That means Vyasa’s son did not respond at all to his father’s call.
He was so utterly detached. Now that same incident’s continuation is described here that as Suta was going away Vyasa followed him and then he came to a place where … … … … … … … … … … … … the beautiful damsels who were there … … They covered themselves. But … … … So when his son had gone, they did not cover themselves.
… … Jagadus Tavaasthi Like Rukhs Vikshan, seeing this he asked them, you know, Jagadus and they replied Tavaasthi In you there is Tripum Vida Nathusutasya Viviktadushthe Tripum, in you there is a differentiation of man and woman but Nathusutasya Viviktadushthe but in his hand he is utterly purified and he does not see the difference between man and woman So Women are often so much subjected to wanted and unwanted male attention that they over time develop a conscious or subconscious radar by which they can sense the motivation underlying the male attention So, for example if a man is externally La Saudi Mary cultured but actually is internally lascivious then over time certain glances certain voice intonations certain dublin tintards all these convey and women also are sharp enough to pick that up so that way here these women they are not as beautiful but they were shrewd with respect to understanding motivations and they said that they saw they saw they saw that he they saw that he there was just no lust in his eyes at all just like when a small infant is there and then the infant actually drinks milk from mother’s breast and mother falafel doesn’t feel shy when exposing her breast to an infant and similarly when children are very small children may themselves be unclothed and they may go to especially when small babies are there or little grown up are there the children may just walk into that women’s women’s chamber and the women may also not be properly dressed they may be just have come from bathing or they may just be dressing but the women don’t feel shy they don’t need they don’t feel the need to cover themselves nor do the children feel anyway affected by that because you know the lust is not entered into the equation only at that time so like that the these young women beautiful damsel who are devriya it is said devyo they are beautiful women they did not feel the need to cover themselves with sutra went by sorry the sutra of Vyasa that is shuka went by but when Vyasa himself went then they saw now Vyasa was a very respectable person he was a sage and it’s not that he had lust within him but the point was they felt that he is just chukadeva swami is just like a child and we need to we don’t bother about anything with him whereas Vyasadeva is a respectable person and we need to be careful in the way we deal with him that’s why they covered themselves so this example conveys that although shukadeva shuka was the son of Vyasa but still he was actually at a spiritually much more exalted level than Vyasa so his spiritual level will be talked about it in various ways here it is talked about in terms of utter detachment from the world and that utter detachment was seen by how not only did he have no lusty desires but even those observing him did not feel any sense of embarrassment when they saw him so we will see later that Vyasa himself heard from shuka and bhagavatam was spoken sampraptah kurujangalan unmata mukta jadavad vicharang jasah vaye so katham alakshitah paurahi so how was he recognised lakshitah lakshitah is characteristic that which helps us to recognise katham alakshitah paurahi how was he recognised by the citizens paurahi is those who reside in the city sampraptah kurujangalan when he reached the various provinces the provinces of kurujangalan unmata mukta jadavad so he act like unmata man muka is muka is one who is dumb the word dumb can mean one who is foolish or dumb is also one who can’t speak jadavad so overall he was acting like a stunted who was acting like a like an unintelligent person vicharan gajisah vaye when he moved around in hastinapur so now it is mentioned that shuka left his home and went away so now the question is raised where did he go and what happened when he went there so he went to various places kurujangal provinces he came to hastinapur so how did people receive him over there that is the question that has been asked by shanak rishi so katham va pandave yasyam rajar so here pandava now the word normally it is used to refer to the sons of pandu but here it is used in a generic sense to refer to the descendants of pandu and another specific descendant that is parikshit so parikshit is the great grandson now of pandu but just as the word kaurava became a generic reference to refer to the various descendants of kuru so similarly here the word pandava is used in a generic sense to refer to all the specific descendants so how did this pandave yasyam that pandava that is parikshit rajarsher muninasaha so how did this rajarsher meet this grandfather and that’s how what made the samvada possible tata tata is affectionate form of address and prabhupada uses his cultural his translational creativeness to render tata as a darling so it’s a not just a formal academic relationship between Suta Goswami and Shanak Rishi there is their teacher student but the teacher student bond was also one of affection not just of remuneration I pay you remuneration and teaching no it was affection so affection is tata you see that when we are talking about just technical subjects even then sometimes a bond is formed between the teacher and the student but when subject we discuss is actually close to our heart that means the closer the subject is to our heart the closer is the bond that is formed between the speaker and the audience if somebody is just explaining the instruction how to operate a particular new machine is coming a company and then the representative of that company is coming giving a training seminar to educate the employees about how this machine works that is not really related to the immediately in a personal sense related to the speaker’s life or the hearer’s life of course if the speaker has passion for that particular product then that speaker’s passion may touch some of the hearer’s hearts but if the speaker is a motivational speaker speaker speaks some things from one’s own life experiences and then that creates a greater bond between the speaker and the audience greater means not just intensity but in terms of more of intimacy also so now when we speak about Krishna then Krishna is the closest object to our heart as speakers and when there are sincere seekers then Krishna is the closest object to their heart also and naturally so when someone when there is the sharing of Krishna between the speaker and the audience that is no longer just formal didactic kind of sharing it actually leads to the greatest level of intimacy between the two that it leads to great intimate bonding between the speaker speaker and the hearer and if the two already have an affectionate relationship then that affectionate relationship becomes even deeper Krishna also refers to Arjuna is that father and that is addressed in the Bhagavad Gita also and now it is coming here also so the affectionate relationship between the two yatraisha sattvati shruti so sattvati shruti is that which is sattvata is situated in truth sattva is truth sattvati is that which is in truth sattvati shruti so that that literature which is the topmost truthful literature so how was it that speaking became possible because of their meeting so how did their meeting takes place so so here he speaks another feature of shuka’s detachment he is telling him so shukadeva swami earlier he said that he was so detached from women that he did not even see the male female difference now another thing is that specifically the question is raised that how did him speaking the bhagavatam must have taken some time and how was such a prolonged between between shuka and pariksit possible because shuka was famous for not staying at the house of householders for own so as much time as was required for milking a cow that much of the time those who are householders are attached to householder life that much time he would wait mahabhagas tirthikurvam sadashramam and even during even during that much wait he would transform their resistance residence into a place of tirtha so there was an enormous potency by which just by staying at a particular place he would purify that place that was shukadeva that is the glory for him all of us but at the same time he would not stay so if the milk had already been milked then he would just take the milk and he would leave but if the milk had not been taken from the cow then he would just wait for them to give out the milk for them to get the milk from the wait milk to the for them to give out for give them to give the milk for them the for them And now he is giving some background of Parikshit also. So Prahuru Bhagwatottamam, it is said that about Prahuru, it is said about him he was a Bhagwatottamam. He was the topmost of the Bhagwatas.
Thus Janma Mahascharyam. And he was not just a great devotee, but his whole life, his birth itself was Mahascharyam. How his birth was amazing, greatly amazing, that will be described later in the Bhagwatam.
The Lord himself intervened to protect him. And his activities are also, they are also wonderful. So please tell us about that also.
So while telling about the meeting between, how the meeting took place between these two great people, please tell us about how he was, about his birth and activities too. Anadrityadhirajshriyam. So, Sasamrath.
Samrath, he was a great emperor. Kasyavaheto, that’s person who had sovereignty over the whole world. Kasyavaheto, with what intention, with what objective? Panduna Manavardhana.
He, who was actually enhancing the glory of the Pandu dynasty. Panduna Manavardhana. Prayopavishtho.
Prayopavishtho. So he sat and fasted. So prayopavishtho is a vrata of fasting to death.
So why did he took that vrata? Upavishtho. Ganga, yeah, went close to Ganga. Anadrityadhirajshriyam.
Anadritya. Anadritya means? So, in one sense, aadha is to respect, aadha is to disrespect. So here it is used, not in the sense of disrespect, but neglect.
He had royal opulences. And why did he give up those royal opulences? Adhirajshriyam. Adhiraj, which he had acquired the kingdom.
Shriyam, with great opulence. Normally, if somebody has a flourishing business, then that person will give up the business for some greener prospects. But suddenly that person has a big business, and the business depends on that person.
Why would such a person give it up? He is asking this question about Pariksitra. namantyatpadniketamatmanah shivayahaniyadhananishatravaham kathamsavirahashriyamangadustyajam yuvaishatotsrashtumahosahasubhih namantyatpadniketamatmanah namantyatpadniketam So, unto his feet, others would bow down. namantyatpadniketamatmanah His own feet.
So, he now is analysing, okay, why would a king leave the kingdom? Is it that someone else conquered the kingdom and this king had to flee to save one’s life? No, it’s not possible. All the other kings would bow down to him. namantyatpadniketam shivayahaniyadhananishatravaham So, they were recognising him to be so powerful that they would offer tributes even his enemies would come and offer tribute.
Why? Because they knew that he was such a shivayah. It was not because of force that they would offer. They knew that he was such a great king that by surrendering to him it would be for their own benefit.
kathamsavirah shriyamangadustejam So, kathamsavirah, such a great hero, shriyam, he had opulence, he was heroic, anga, anga is referring here to Suta Goswami, dustejam, so such a shriya, wealth is very difficult to renounce, yuva, he is in full youth, it was not even that. Yes, kings are expected to renounce the world when they become elderly, that they take the vanaprastha, but he was doing it in yuva, and aishatam, so these are all desirable things, which he had, utsrashtum, utsrashtum means he gave it all up, and then ahos, it’s an explanation of amazement, sahasubhihi, so why did he want to give up everything, including his life? So, he is talking about the various qualifications of Parikshit, which in one sense, the previous was talking about his spiritual qualification, that he was bhagavata uttama, now this text is talking about his, a few verses ago, the spiritual qualification we talked about, this is talking about his material position and material qualification, enemies were going down to him, he was young, he was wealthy, he had a long life before him, and why would such a person go to this world? It’s the most unlikely of events, normally say if a cricketer is at the top of the sports, and is not even old, maybe the cricketer just started playing at the age of 17, 18, and has come to the peak by 25, 26, and then that is not the time when anyone retires, when people go to 35 or 40, when their performance starts going down, and their energy level starts going down, then that is the time they retire, but if it’s someone at the age of 25 or something, then that person will not retire at all, so why did he retire at such a time? This question is something which naturally will come to a person, and that is the question which is being asked here by Shukadev, by Suttasutra Goswami, by Shaunak Rishi, so 12th text, शिवाय लोकस्य भवाय भूतये यउत्तम श्लोक परायणाजनः जीवन्ति नात्मार्थमसवः पराश्रयम् उमोच निर्वित्य कुतः कलेवरम् so, not only, further qualifications of Pariksit are being described, that when he was living, he was not living for himself, he was living for others, शिवाय लोकस्य भवाय भूतये he was doing benefit, auspiciousness for the people, भवाय भूतये they were flourishing, that their material and spiritual development was going on, यउत्तम श्लोक परायणाजनः and he was a person who was devoted to उत्तम श्लोक, जीवन्ति नात्मार्थम now he is further talking that, this is the general characteristic of those who are devoted to उत्तम श्लोक, जीवन्ति नात्मार्थम they do not live for themselves, असवु पराश्रयम् they live for others, मोच निर्विद्य कुतः कलेवरम् so when like this, when they are living for others, why would anyone want to actually give up one’s body? so yes, if one is entangled and one wants to renounce, that is, that is understandable, but if one is not, but one is not entangled, one is actually living for the sake of others, now Krishna and the Bhagavata has told Arjuna that, do not renounce the world, set an example for others, लोक संग्रह so that is what Parishad was doing, so why would such a person renounce? 13th verse, तच सर्वं न समाचक्ष्व पुष्टोयद एह किञ्चन मन्येत्वां विषेवाचम स्नातं अन्यत्र चान्त सात् so, तच सर्वं न समाचक्ष्व we know that, तच सर्वं न समाचक्ष्व you can clearly explain all this, पुष्टोयद एह किञ्चन that, whatever you have questioned, you can explain all that, मन्येत्वां विषेवाचम you can explain the meanings of words, subjects, the import of the words, स्नातं अन्यत्र चान्त सात् you are fully acquainted except अन्यत्र चान्त सात् some portion of the Vedas, so, he is telling over here, in some of the Vedas, the recitation is considered very important, the potency is considered to be present in precise recitation of mantras, that is one of the main differences between the Shruti and the Smriti, Shruti is heard and the idea of hearing means that there is precise recitation that is required, whereas Smriti is that which is remembered and that indicates that one understands the import and then explains the meaning according to time, place, circumstance, so we are asking विशयेवाचं we feel that you are quite qualified to explain the meanings of the subjects that we have discussed, that we have raised over here and so we are asking you to speak and your relative expertise in चन्चान्त सात् in the precise metric recitation of some sections of the Vedas that is not important because that is not the relevant subject over here, so in some cases, some of the Vedic sounds, especially the Rig Vedic sounds are considered to be like formulas, to the extent the sounds are precisely recited, to that extent the power is present in them, but the Smritis, especially the Bhagavatam, its essence is not in the precise recitation, it’s in the semantic assimilation, semantic assimilation means that one has to understand the meaning and convey the meaning and so here the reference to Shrutas disqualification is actually done to point out that it is no, to underscore that it is no disqualification because this is a different subject, now say somebody is, somebody is speaking in physics and within physics, that person is more into theoretical physics and even if that person doesn’t know about the latest applications that have been developed and in terms of that person doesn’t know how this particular application works, how that person is not an engineer but if theoretical physics is being discussed, you know the engineering physics doesn’t really matter at that time, so similarly here it doesn’t matter what exactly is happening in terms of Shukadeva Swami not knowing a particular subject because that is not relevant over here and in general if we want to understand and transform our lives, not just, not just develop the power through recitations, precise recitation, precise recitation can give us some power but actually the real transformation of the heart happens when there is reorientation of our world view and that happens when there is assimilation of the world view, so for that assimilation, a transmission of meaning is important and that transmission of meaning is what Shraddha Krushi is reassuring, is assuring Suta that you are qualified for doing that because you understood the meaning of Shraddha Krushi. Thank you.
We will continue in our future discussions.