Dasha Mula Tattva 9 – Association is the way to liberation

Gita verse-by-verse study Podcast

Yeah. Hare Krishna.

Hare Krishna. So, welcome to our discussion on Dashamudra Tattva. Now we are discussing the we need a connector.

We don't have. We can switch this off. So, this is Tattva 6 Tattva 6 Till now in the Dashamudra Tattva the absolute truth is internal energy external energy internal energy and marginal energy has been talked about.

So, now how the jiva who is trapped in maya can become liberated in Krishna that process will be mentioned in this verse. yada brahmam brahmam brahmam brahmam means while wandering in the middle of existence harirasa galad vaisnavajanam harirasa galad vaisnavajanam If while wandering in the middle of existence the soul comes in contact with Vaishnavas what kind of Vaishnavas? harirasa galad those who are relishing the rasa of Lord Hari not just nominal superficial Vaishnavas but those who are deep Vaishnavas who are relishing the higher taste of bhakti of remembrance of Krishna of love for Krishna then kadachit sampashan somehow kadachit sampashan he comes in contact with them sees them tad anugamane syad ruchiyat yutaha and doesn't just see them but tad anugamane decides to follow them and syad in this way the soul gets ruchiyat yutaha gets taste tada krishna vritya tajati shanakair mayaik dasham at that time krishna vritya the soul becomes attracted to Krishna becomes situated in Krishna and shanakair thereafter gives up tajati mayaik dasham the situation of being in maya the soul gives it up svarupam vibhrano vimalrasa bhogam sakrute and the soul attains svarupa thereof vimalrasa bhogam and then after that pure rasa the soul relishes for all time here the journey of the soul transforms into an odyssey by association journey can also be a just a wandering going here going there without any purpose odyssey is a purposeful journey where a person is going in a particular place so our wandering becomes a odyssey when we come in the association of devotees what is the first sutra of vedanta sutra atha to brahma jignasa so for this sutra ramanacharya has actually written a 100 page commentary and in his shri bhaksha he explains primarily that yes the soul should do brahma jignasa but what will make the soul do brahma jignasa is it that the soul naturally think of the absolute truth no the primary impetus for brahma jignasa comes from those who are already doing brahma jignasa and he says implicit in the exhortation for brahma jignasa is the exhortation for sadhu sangha this principle of sadhu sangha is actually a universal principle whether it is vaishnavas or whether there are advaitins even shankaracharya says that three things they are foundational for liberation first he says the human form of life second is the association of the saintly and the third is the desire for liberation only when these three are there after that the soul can say I have had enough of this material world I want to get liberated I have had enough human form, association and desire for liberation we could say that as bhakti sadhakas we don't talk about desire for liberation we talk about desire for Krishna or devotion but the principle is the same so human form we already have and we are fortunate that we already have some association and if in that association we get the desire for Krishna then our mind will move straight onwards towards Krishna our desires are not just linear they are triangular our desires are triangular triangular means normally we think of desires as that say I am here there is a sense object over there I look at the sense object and I desire that sense object so we think of desire as a linear thing between me and the sense object that is true at one level but that is not the only truth say consider suppose an Indian goes to America Indians are mad about cricket in America people don't even know cricket you know when the world cup was then 2011 at that time just before the finals Radhakumar was travelling somewhere and so some journalist some reporter asked Maharaj I know the cricket final is there so what are your thoughts about this so Maharaj said I come from America and for me cricket only refers to an insect he said that but he said I did that actually India has given me so much and India has given me so much spiritual wealth and wisdom and Indians love cricket so much therefore I offer my best wishes to the Indian cricket team so the point is that America people don't know much about cricket why is it a problem today Hare Krishna Hare Krishna so say an American comes to India now American may have no idea about cricket but if that person stays in India and sees there is cricket match and there is cricket mania everywhere and by seeing people seeing Indians how they are maniac about cricket that American also starts getting hooked to cricket so in this case the desire if the person just saw cricket I don't know so the cricket match is here the American is here and Indian is here so American sees how excited this Indian is this is a sixer this is a clean bowl and he also gets the fever so the desire doesn't develop just by looking at the cricket match but it is a triangular desire between us those who have the desire and the desired object so our desires often develop in a triangle not just in a linear way and this applies especially to spiritual desires so for example if we study the Bhagavad Gita we say ok there are millions of books in the world read this book ok it's just another book we may not feel great taste just by looking at the Bhagavad Gita or just by reading the Bhagavad Gita but if we associate with those who are absorbed in the Gita those who have great taste for the Gita recite the verses relish the verses contemplate the verses and live the verses of the Gita then by associating with them we will get that taste so this at one level describes the linear flow of desires when we contemplate the sense objects how the desire grows we get the desire for the sense object but there is Prabhupada in one lecture offers an alternative reading of this verse when he says that so one meaning of Sangha is attachment another meaning of Sangha is association so means that in association our desires develop so those whom we associate with accordingly our desires will develop so if you associate with those who study Shastra we may sometimes come to a temple some people come to a temple just for sightseeing people who are not familiar with the culture of deity worship they may come to the temple and see this is a nicely decorated statue but if they associate with those who are worshipping the deity as Krishna gradually they will also get a reverential attitude towards Krishna how will this happen? Sangat Sanjavite Kamaha so it is in association that our desires develop because our desires are triangular unless we associate with those who have strong spiritual desires our desires will not develop much and here the point that is made by Bhaktunath Thakur is Brahmam Brahmam the soul is wandering in mortal existence and Chaitanya Chaitanya Tamta also says the same thing that that when the soul is Guru Krishna Prasade Paye Bhakti Lata Veech so it is by the mercy of Guru and Krishna here Bhaktunath Thakur uses generically by the association of devotees of Vaishnavas now there is there is a cultural appreciation for sadhus and there is a spiritual appreciation for sadhus cultural appreciation means that ok if we live in a spiritual culture or in some kind of culture where spirituality is respected then there is a tradition ok you should respect some sadhus you should go down with them and use some donation to them but that is often not very transformational because if it is just cultural then it is nominal you go down, use some donation and go away but spiritual means we live from them what does association essentially mean see association is not just physical proximity association is essentially a transfer of desires when do we associate with a person when we get the desires that they are having only then we have associated with them otherwise we will be physically in proximity but if our desires are untouched then we are not associating with the nature so the association changes our desires and to the extent the association changes our desires to that extent actually we are associating so in many ways we can't avoid the association of non devotees when we live in this world but we don't have to associate with them in the sense of taking in their desires we can have a functional association functional association means I have to do some function, I have to get some work done there is a functional association where we don't invest ourselves emotionally in the activities in the environment so with non devotees whose values are different from or opposite to ours we can have a functional association but with devotees we shouldn't have a functional association now among devotees also we cannot have an intimate association with everyone but there should be some devotees at least with whom we have close association again close association essentially means that in our life there should be at least one devotee whom we trust more than our mind there should be at least one devotee whom we trust more than we trust our mind normally whenever we hear anything that anyone says I am here, my mind is here and it is through the lens of my mind that I am perceiving everyone so I may think oh this is a short tempered devotee this is a very judgemental devotee this is a loose devotee now whenever we see someone our mind readily passes a comment about that person it is very freely passing comments about everyone so normally we see everyone through the lens of the mind and then if somebody criticises us this person is envious or this person is judgemental or whatever and then we keep distance from that person yes and it is not that we have to unnecessarily be subjected to criticism we don't have to be unnecessarily subject to criticism but sometimes we at least need someone we see everyone through the mind but we need someone by whose association we will look at the mind now evaluate is this mind's paradigm true? is what the mind is saying really true? so maybe I am lazy it may be that we have some anarthas and we need to at least be aware of those anarthas so that we can gradually correct those anarthas so close association doesn't just mean when we meet some devotees give them a tight hug that's not necessarily close association close association means how much we value what they say and how much we can evaluate ourselves that means evaluate our mind in the light of what they say it is do we really need the bike? can you hear me behind? yeah so we need someone with whom we can who can help us catch our mind normally we say that we are not our bodies that is like a basic philosophical point and if we do a little introspection we understand that yes there is a side to me which is beyond my body but to understand that I am not my mind takes time and quite often distancing ourselves from our mind it happens when we are in the association of inspiring devotees because then when we are associating with them what they speak and then they reveal ok this is the reality but this is what my mind has been saying and this is how the mind is speaking like this we catch the mind in action when we are in the association of insightful devotees so insight it is a common word nowadays but what it means is the sight that goes in, insight it doesn't stay just at the surface it goes deep in so when we associate with insightful devotees they give us the sight, they give us the gyana chakshu which goes inside normally we think of the external means what is outside in this world so for example this table is external, this computer is external and internal means what is inside us but this notion of external and internal is actually misleading because it is based on a bodily conception of life from the soul's point of view the mental is also external for the soul the mind is also outside so that means it is not that everything that is inside me is me everything inside me is not me often inside me what is speaking is my mind it is not really what I want to do sometimes the mind says eat this, sleep, go here, go there and afterwards you want to, why did I do that that is because my mind was prompting me to do it so our spiritual desires which are cultivated in the association of devotees often they become curved or even crushed because of the mind's whimsical ideas and to counter them we need insightful association this is the mind speaking, check it, stop it and then counter it so in the association of devotees, here Bhaktivedanta says especially those devotees who have taste for Krishna those devotees who have taste for Krishna in their association we also acquire taste krishna rasabhavitamati kriyatamedi kuto pilabhyate Rupa Goswami says that attraction to Krishna taste for Krishna if you get it anywhere kriyatamedi kuto pilabhyate wherever you get it at whatever price you can pay pay it and get it janma koti sukruti nalagyate even if you do sukruti for many many lifetimes one will not get it but if you are in the association of devotees it is the only price for that is greed and that greed we get in the association of devotees so if we see, I was talking about the differentiation between cultural attraction and spiritual, cultural appreciation of devotees and spiritual appreciation of devotees so we see this especially in the life of Prabhupada when he was in India, there were many people who would culturally appreciate him when he wanted to go to America, Sumati Maharaj told him that Swami if you want to speak about Bhagavatam why do you have to go to America, come to my house everyday I will hear from you for Bhagavatam so Prabhupada did not want that kind of hearing he said the cultural ritual, yes you have some Bhagavatam, Prabhupada wanted people who dedicate their lives to the Bhagavatam so that cultural appreciation is also good but we wanted what sadhana requires, what serious spiritual advancement requires is a transformational association so when we associate with vibrant spiritually advanced devotees our desires get transformed see, one significant difference between Hinduism as is practised in mainstream society today and Krishna consciousness is, for most Hindus bhakti is a part of their life for ISKCON devotees bhakti is their life bhakti is just one part of their life some morning you wake up, do some puja, that is good it's better than atheism, it's better than just rank materialism but that is not really sadhana bhakti, that is good so what Sri Prabhupada offers is that very serious practise of spiritual life and when bhakti is just a part of someone's life then people they don't appreciate so much the dedication of a person's life they appreciate more ritual specialisation they think, oh if somebody can recite verses very clearly somebody has memorised a lot of verses, that's a great scholar somebody can sing very nicely, very good somebody can do aarti very artistically, very good they think these are what is very specialised this is what makes a person special so when there is only a cultural appreciation of bhakti then one looks only at some cultural artefacts now your singing skills, your ability to perform certain rituals and you think that is what is bhakti so often many devotees, even within our movement many people equate when I was in America I had met Keshavarthi Maharaj Keshavarthi Maharaj is also a scholarly person so we were discussing about the state of scholarship what are the forums where a devotee can practise scholarship how a devotee can grow in his life so Maharaj mentioned this point and many devotees equate scholarship with memorisation of verses if you can memorise a lot of verses that means you are a scholar no, Vedavis can memorise more verses than you I am not in any way minimising memorising of verses it's very good if you can memorise verses but the point is that alone is not scholarship scholarship means the capacity to analyse the capacity to apply, the capacity to connect verses the capacity to present scripture in a way that is appealing to people that is relevant to people, that is inspiring to people when a person knows a lot of verses then often the class becomes not a class of inspiration it becomes a class of performance I know so many verses and everybody, you just watch how brilliant I am so that is not, and I am not saying those who memorise and quote a lot of verses have necessarily that motive so that is not the point I am making the point is that when we have more of a cultural appreciation for devotee association then our focus becomes when we are associating with devotees we look only for what can this devotee do which I can't do so we think of that devotee speciality only in terms of some specialisation what makes a devotee special is that devotee must be having some special skills sing very nicely, recite a lot of verses, do some decoration nicely all these are good and all these specialised skills are important for doing devotional service in an attractive appealing way but just specialised skills do not define an advanced devotee what defines an advanced devotee is not ritual specialisation but overall dedication it's not ritual specialisation not that the devotee specialises in one particular thing but it is overall dedication, the life is offered to Krishna and when that is offered that is what connects one with Krishna and that is what enables one to move onwards towards Krishna Krishna Prabhupada would often say that his purports are his devotional ecstasies now the question comes up that sometimes his purports seem to be very basic he is talking about foundational points again and again so what does it mean Prabhupada doesn't talk so much about bhakti also many times he glorifies bhakti but his purports seem to be very basic so devotional ecstasy we have to understand what it means devotional ecstasy is not that which gives us ecstasy it is that which gives Krishna ecstasy of course when you give Krishna ecstasy we will also get ecstasy but what is Prabhupada's primary focus now Prabhupada could have written purports where he is just talking about Radha Krishna's eccentric pastimes but Prabhupada's focus was to help people come closer to Krishna so whatever misconceptions people have Prabhupada tries to remove those misconceptions and when those misconceptions are removed then the souls move closer and closer to Krishna and when his lost soul comes closer to Krishna that makes Krishna happy that gives Krishna ecstasy so in that sense when Prabhupada's purports they remove the obstacles between the conditioned soul and Krishna and that is how they give the opportunity the facility for the soul to go closer to Krishna and that's how they give ecstasy to Krishna that's how they are devotional ecstasy of Sri Prabhupada so Prabhupada himself his defining characteristic was his his overall dedication, tireless dedication to Krishna's service and that's what attracted so many people all over the world and we see that the devotees there are different kinds of inspiration there is definitely, if we have certain talents if we can specialise in certain fields then we should definitely specialise and if we decide to specialise in a particular field, say if we are inspired to sing then we can find out who are the devotees who can sing very nicely and we can learn from them, we can get inspiration from them but we should know that our specialisation itself does not mean devotion it's a way in which we can serve and thereby by that service our devotion will increase it's important that all of us have a stable service and stable service often develops when we have a we have a specialised service which we feel inspired to do that is good, but just expertise in service does not necessarily mean advancement in devotion the two are related but they are not automatically one and the same thing expertise in service can give us inspiration by which we can keep doing the service consistently and by doing that service when we please devotees we please Krishna, we get their mercy and then there is advancement in devotion yad karoshi dashanasi yad juhosi dadaasi yad yad tapasthasi kaunteya tat kurshu madharpanam Krishna says whatever you do you offer it to me so that is the mode in which we whatever services we do we do those as services and another important point is that when we come in the association of devotees what are we coming for that means sometimes when people come first to the association of devotees, nowadays people can easily go and search on Google search for ISKCON controversies you can find hundreds of things so now sometimes actually you can also search for credibility of internet google searches if you search for that you will find that usually what happens on google those which are the most extreme views they often get highlighted so much of what is there is not true but there are some things which are true also so yes there have been some controversies some scandals, some tragedies there are many wrong things that have happened but we have to know, somebody can just focus on that why should I belong to such an organisation so the thing is, just like Krishna is a Kalpataru yatha maam prapadyante taam sathayiva bhajam similarly Krishna's organisation Krishna's movement, ISKCON is also like a Kalpataru so we will get what we want from ISKCON if somebody comes here for power a person can get a lot of power if you stay here for a few years you become a councillor, in which ever organisation you enter into a room and everybody will offer you obeisances you can get power, you can get respect you can get money and like that if we want controversy, we can get more controversy than what we will get in the material world also but if we want Krishna, we will get Krishna also so it's up to us what we are coming here for so if we keep that purpose in mind to the extent we keep that purpose in mind to that extent we will grow in our body if we lose track of that purpose then even within Krishna's movement we can get lost so to some extent we could compare an organisation, Krishna's movement we could compare it to a stock exchange if people have money and they want to increase the money that they have they come to stock exchange and they invest the money so there are different people who have money and there are people who are expert in investing and increasing the money so if a person comes to a stock exchange find a trustworthy broker, invest the money and the money can grow but in that same stock exchange, if a person is careless that person can lose the money also so like that we have some stock of Shraddha with which we come to Krishna's movement when we come to a stock exchange we cannot say now I have invested my money, the stock exchange will take care of everything no, it is my money and growing that money is my responsibility similarly it is our spiritual life it is our bhakti and growing in our spiritual life nourishing our bhakti is our responsibility our spiritual master is there to guide us our counsellors are there to guide us but ultimately it is our choice it is our responsibility Prabhupada gives the example of others can help us but how much can they help us he gives the example that suppose somebody in India it happens that suppose somebody is driving a car and sometimes the car doesn't start only and 5-6 people in the neighbourhood come and they push the car from behind and the person from inside is trying to start the car moving around the wheel and people from behind are pushing and then the car starts off and then the car moves so here there is a cooperation between the person inside and the people pushing outside but suppose the person inside you know he just goes to sleep and the people around him say why should we keep pushing or worse still if the person inside puts a brake then people from outside will say why should we push so like that we have devotee association and devotees will push us to some extent but we can grow only when we also want to move in our spiritual life if we hold on to our own conceptions our own attachments if we don't want to develop interest in Krishna then devotees also stop pushing us and we can't move forward much so if it's my car which is not starting starting the car is my responsibility others are there to help me so like that for me to move outwards in my spiritual life my spiritual growth is my responsibility primarily and devotee association is there to inspire me devotee association is there to push me onwards but if I don't push myself then they will not push me much how long can they keep pushing me so even in devotee association we always need to remember that my spiritual advancement is my responsibility and just as if we invest money in the stock exchange we remember that this is my money and I have to ensure that this money grows I have to make sure I can take guidance definitely where to invest money which stock broker to take guidance from where to invest money but it is my money and ensuring that the money grows is my responsibility so like that it is our Shraddha and our Shraddha needs to grow and we need to associate with those devotees in whose association our faith will grow if we associate with devotees who are always negative this person is like this, this person is like this this person is like this we may be physically in association of devotees but when we are associating with people who are very negative very critical we will just lose inspiration we will become judgemental sometimes we feel that yes I will associate with devotees but I want devotees who are not conditioned I want advanced devotees if there are advanced devotees I will associate with those devotees if we look for an ideal circle of devotees we will keep looking for the rest of eternity because the only ideal circle is the spiritual world and even if we somehow found an ideal circle in the material world somewhere we would not be allowed entry there because we are not ideal so we have to live in the association of devotees sometimes once I was giving a class when we practise spiritual life we have to tolerate many things I was talking about tolerance basically so what all do we have to tolerate one devotee raised their hand yes we have to tolerate devotees so I said yes that is true it is a good realisation and when we advance further we will realise that devotees are tolerating us so it's both way when we live in the material world because of our nature, because of our weaknesses we create problems for others and others create problems for us sometimes but knowing that we are all in the same journey we keep moving onwards and if we find that certain devotees their conduct disinspires us then we should keep a distance from them and associate with those who inspire us and move onwards in our bhakti and Rupa Goswami in Bhakti Samaj Sindhu says that we need Sajati Ashay Bhagwat Bhakti Samaj Sajati Ashay means those devotees who have the same kind of desires that we have we need that kind of association one of the easiest ways to give ourselves an inferiority complex in bhakti is to associate with those devotees whose interests are different from ours suppose you know we are not very good at memorising verses and somehow we have, our memory is not all that strong and if we associate with some devotees who are really brilliant at memorising verses I can never become like this and that will simply discourage us if we associate with some devotees who are very good at managing and organising things and we find that we can't do it we will think I am useless so we have to find out what are the things which we feel inspired to do what are the things that we are good at and associate with devotees accordingly so when we associate with those kind of devotees who who are doing the things which we feel inspired to do what we feel inspired to do we cannot just decide immediately it takes time for us to recognise it but then by that we can learn and move onwards in our spiritual life so when I always had a desire to write a lot even before I was introduced to Krishna Consciousness essay writing and things like that I would love a lot so when I came to Krishna Consciousness I started writing but 15-20 years ago practically nobody was writing nobody in the second generation was writing at that time nearly no one and even the first generation readers were not writing much so I would write some articles and nobody would care for it so at that time I was in Pune and then in times of India there is a spiritual column called Speaking Tree so there I used to read that column even before I was introduced to Bhakti for many years I used to read then I wrote an article and I sent it to Speaking Tree and then it got published in Speaking Tree I was so happy I thought it was like a childhood dream come true for me then I told other devotees my article is published in Speaking Tree how can a tree speak? utter incomprehension so here I achieved something wonderful what is this? they just couldn't connect with it then somehow I kept writing and at one time Jaya Dvait Maharaj came to Pune so then I showed him, I had made a compilation of all my articles and I showed it to 20 articles that were published in Speaking Tree and I showed it to him, he was so happy he says this is what Sri Prabhupada wanted us to do he wanted us to send our message in the mainstream culture and then right in front of me he read 10 articles he said this is a good point, you could have put it this way, you could have put it this way and then afterwards I asked him are there any books which I can use for improving my writing and he gave me a long list of books and none of those books were available in India also at that time this was 10-15 years ago Amazon and things like that were not there so then 3 months later when I had come to Mumbai Govind Prabhu met me and said Jaya Dvait Maharaj has given me 5 books for you so Jaya Dvait Maharaj had gone to America, he had remembered and he had sent 5 books to Govind Prabhu, 5 books to Bhima Prabhu and 5 more books he sent to Rasraj Prabhu like that I got 15 books so at that time it struck me that he is into writing when he was doing writing and editing he did it in a very dedicated way, Prabhupada told him do what you are doing and train others to do what you are doing train others to do this also so he has taken that service so I felt that it was Krishna who arranged for me to just otherwise I would not have even thought of giving him that book my compilation of my articles, I gave it to him and he was so encouraging so we have to find out all of us devotees who are like minded and then in that whatever we feel inspired to do we will be able to continue doing and we will be able to move onwards so we often think of association, just any kind of association will do any kind of association is good and we should value all devotees but at the same time it is unrealistic to expect that all devotees will appreciate necessarily the same things in bhakti it is not that other devotees are wrong or bad or anything like that it is just that we are all different individuals and it takes time for us to recognise what our interests are, it takes time for us to recognise who are the devotees whom we feel inspired by in a sense in which we can dedicate ourselves to serve like this so here Bhaktivinoda Thakur says that what happens when we associate like this that we give up the conditioned life and material existence we give up when by associating with devotees by following in their footsteps we live then we also get ruchi and when we get ruchi gradually gradually our swaroopa is awakened so this awakening of swaroopa is of course a very lofty stage but it is also a gradual thing at the very least we start understanding that serving Krishna is my natural condition realising swaroopa does not necessarily mean that we have to realise who I am in the spiritual world, that may take a long time but even if we just understand this point that yes my natural condition is to serve Krishna and this is the condition in which I am peaceful, I am joyful I am fruitful, I can do things tangibly in Krishna's service so then that itself is situation in swaroopa and Bhaktivinoda Thakur says Bhaktisanshu Thakur says that when the soul becomes convinced about serving Krishna at that time the soul becomes free from the burden of enjoying this world so he uses the word burden of enjoying this world we think enjoying is something wonderful but actually when we have to enjoy this world that desire to enjoy creates so much anxiety, so much uncertainty so much complexity in our life so when we become convinced that serving Krishna is what I am meant to do then the burden of enjoying the world goes off Prahlad Maharaj says that in the pursuit of maya sukha, what is the soul doing? Bharam, it's a big burden the soul is carrying and a soul who carries a huge burden maya sukhaya bharam udvahato vimudhaan vimudhaan means the soul is mudha is a fool, vimudha is a empowered fool empowered fool nowadays the other day I was talking about shopaholism addiction like alcoholism shopaholism addiction there is another addiction which is a very prestigious addiction and that is the addiction of workaholism workaholism work, work, work, work it's glamorised, somebody comes early in the morning and stays till 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock so dedicated so yes there are times when we do need to work hard and we are not talking about being lazy but such people, Bhagavatam says that don't just waste your life in kutumbabharanena in maintaining your family and in sense gratification but there is, nowadays people are so caught up in their life that we have to maintain our body, we have to maintain our soul, we have to maintain our family so a devotee sadhakas day has to be divided into these three parts, we earn a living so that we maintain our body we take rest, we do exercise we eat food, that is for maintaining our body we have a job for maintaining our family and maintaining ourselves financially and then we have a sadhana for maintaining ourselves spiritually so all these three are there but sometimes in workaholism people get so consumed by their work that they neglect leave alone neglecting Krishna and the soul they neglect even their health, they neglect even their family so Krishna says knowledge in the mode of ignorance means to think that one thing is everything so their work becomes their whole life and this happens because people don't have a sense of balance in what they are doing so I was talking about workaholism here because that when we are practising bhakti it is something that brings balance to our entire life just as somebody may become a phenomenal success in professional life but if in family life that person's relationships are wrecked, a person at home is on divorce or the children have gone into drugs then success in one field of life doesn't compensate for failure in another field of life success in professional life does not compensate for failure in personal life it is better to have modest success in both walks of life rather than outstanding success in one walk of life and pathetic failure in another walk of life so just as success in professional life doesn't compensate for failure in material life sorry, in personal life similarly success in material life can't compensate for failure in spiritual life so we have different walks to our life and we need balance in all these walks so bhakti is the path of balance and in the association of devotees when we live then we can pursue our spiritual life in a balanced way and we learn that we take care of various limbs of our life and especially if we are the association of devotees, mature devotees then they help us to become balanced otherwise we tend to become extremists doing this too much or doing that too much and in that way we burn ourselves out but if we are in the association of proper devotees they give us guidance and then we move onwards steadily towards ultimate growth so I was talking about swaroopa so when we are situated in swaroopa when we understand that my function is to serve Krishna then whether it is our direct sadhana whether it is taking our family responsibilities whether it is doing our job I am serving Krishna Krishna doesn't say that just by chanting Hare Krishna you will attain perfection Krishna says by your work worship him and when you do this you will attain perfection by this also so bhakti means becoming situated in our position as a servant of Krishna and then bringing that service attitude in all walks of our life and thus moving onwards steadily towards Krishna so I will summarise started by talking about how this shloka, this shloka is talking about association leading to liberation of the soul and in association I explained that brahma jijnasa that desire for spiritual enquiry comes from association so HAD, what is that? human form, association and desire desire for liberation or desire for Krishna whatever it is and our desires are not just linear they are triangular and association is not just physical proximity it is transfer of desires and association is not just there can be cultural appreciation of devotion cultural appreciation of devotees and there can be spiritual appreciation of devotees when there is cultural appreciation then we look only for ritual specialisation and ritual specialisation has its role in bhakti it can provide us a niche in which you can practise bhakti comfortably and then we can advance but expertise in service is not the same as advancement in devotion expertise in service can lead to advancement in devotion so if we have only cultural appreciation of devotee association then we look for ritual specialisation we don't value overall dedication but bhakti is not just a part of our life, bhakti is our life it needs to permeate our entire life that's why we need to associate with those devotees for whom bhakti is their life and when we associate with devotees even in devotee association we need to know that it's our responsibility to advance spiritually not anyone else's responsibility just like if my car is not working I have to start my car, others can help me but it is for me to ensure the car starts or if I invest my money in the bank in a stock exchange a broker can advise me but it's my money to protect it and make it grow is my responsibility similarly our shraddha stock it is for us to make sure that it advances when we come in Krishna's movement Krishna's movement is also like Krishna a kalpataru if you want money, if you want power, if you want controversy that's what we will get if you want Krishna and we will look for those devotees who are focused on Krishna and then in their association we will also move onwards towards Krishna and in the conclusion we discussed how we need like-minded association, not just association but like-minded association otherwise we will get a sense of insecurity and inferiority complex in devotee association also and if we have like-minded association then in that association we gradually learn we become situated in our swaroopa that means we understand what I am meant to do is serve Krishna and this service to Krishna permeates all the walks of our life not just our sadhana but our job our family responsibilities they all become permeated and we achieve a balance. Success in professional life doesn't compensate for failure in personal life similarly success in material life can't compensate for failure in spiritual life but bhakti enables us to achieve a balance in purposeful alignment of all the aspects of our life Thank you very much.

Are there any questions? Usually we say that those qualities or those part of the question is that we cultivate us in doing those service that we find nourishment from and there is doing those things which although we may want to do we are not capable of. So sometimes we are told that we should associate with those devotees who have the qualities which we don't have and by that association we can develop the qualities. The word qualities is a very broad word and we have to understand what it means.

So for example there are in Vedic culture also Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra. So it is not that if a Vaishya associates with a Brahmana the Vaishya will develop Brahminical qualities. Vaishya will have a Vaishya pravratti and society also requires Vaishyas.

So we cannot change our core nature. To expect to do that itself is unrealistic. That's the first thing.

So what I was saying is that whatever our swabhav is we serve according to swabhav. But irrespective of what our swabhav is there are certain attributes which are required for serious sadhana. So for example if we associate with those who wake up early in the morning, we will wake up early in the morning.

Now if we associate with those who sleep late then it will be difficult for us to wake up. So in terms of bhakti sadhana there are certain activities which are good and we can develop those qualities by associating with those devotees who are doing it seriously. But in general we need to focus on our strengths and grow according to our strengths.

We have to be aware of our weaknesses so that we don't succumb because of them. But worrying too much of our weaknesses it can actually make us very disheartened. Because we can't really give up our weaknesses very easily.

That takes a long long time. We have to be aware of our weaknesses. But if we try to transform our weaknesses into our strengths that is quite often an impossible task.

It takes too much effort. So usually focus on our strengths and be aware of the weaknesses. So if there are serious weaknesses then we may have to work to at least bring them to an acceptable level.

But focus should always be on our strengths. Any other questions? Anything related to the lecture today? Very rare and we associate one but we just in the form of hearing only. So how do we get more association with senior devotees? So how to in that scenario also help? So how can we get more association with senior devotees or if we don't get association with senior devotees and we have mostly our equals and how can we maintain our inspiration when we don't get much association with those who inspire us.

Association is not just in terms of time. It's in terms of transfer of desires. So if we associate with those who inspire us even if it's intermittent association but it can carry that inspiration with us.

And nowadays we can hear classes anywhere and we can make notes and refer to those notes. That way we can inspire us. So association ultimately depends on our initiative.

So if we are very inspired by senior devotees then we can find out some way in which we can serve that devotee more. We assist that devotee in their services. Usually the best way to get association of some devotees is to assist in their services.

Then that way we can get their association much more. And that way we can move on. But even if there is not much association, we shouldn't become discouraged by the fact that, okay, I associated, I got inspiration.

Then the inspiration is gone. That's natural. See, the inspiration is like energy.

So it is just like, you know, I ate food today. I got a lot of energy. But I don't lament that tomorrow morning I don't have the energy.

It's natural the energy will go away. Tomorrow morning I will eat again. So it is not unnatural that the inspiration will decline over time.

That's the natural way things are because energy when it is expended, it is lost. But every time we assimilate the energy and expend the energy, there is, it's not just a loss. There is also the building of the body that happens.

It means that physically we eat food, we get energy, we expend the energy. The energy goes away. But in that process if you are doing it regularly, slowly the body is getting built up.

Muscles are growing. But still it's not that the growth of the muscles can at any time substitute the input of energy further. It's not that one day my muscles will grow so much that I can stop eating and still I will have a lot of energy.

So we always have to take in energy. And we need association of devotees. So if we find certain association very inspiring, then we should orient our life in such a way we can get that association.

And as far as not getting much association of seniors, that is true. That is true for everyone. Even during Prabhupada's time, Prabhupada's disciples, how many of them got Prabhupada's association so much? Only in the early days they got Prabhupada's association.

Later on most of the inspiration came from Prabhupada's disciples only, senior Prabhupada's disciples. They did not get so much Prabhupada's association. So we do, in one sense when we associate with our equals, although they may not inspire us in the same way as our seniors, but they can inspire us in a different way.

Because sometimes when we associate with seniors, the mind is so devilish that it can misinterpret it in whichever way you want. Now if you associate with senior devotees, you may think, oh they are so advanced. They don't have the struggles that I have.

So I can't be like them. So yes, I will admire them and that's all that it is. But when we associate with our equals, then we see they are also going through struggles which I am going through.

And yet they are persevering. Or if we see sometimes they commit mistakes and fall, we can learn from that also. Oh this is not what I should not be doing.

So, we have to learn to make whatever circumstance that is there is anukul to us. See bhakti means anukullese sankal prathikullese varjanam. That is Sharanagati.

So, one is if there is some association that inspires us, we should try to get that more and more. But apart from that whatever association is there, we have to make it anukul for ourselves. That means we approach that association in a way that will inspire us.

And then we can move onwards steadily. Does it answer your question or ask question? Okay, yeah, okay. How do you make consequences change? Is it better to become a paper dust and not give it a proper name? Okay.

You know what? I think I am going to go. Okay. So, is it better to become a stable brahmachari, stable grahastha than a bewildered brahmachari? Is it that if we hear too much negativity of brahmachari ashram, we become disheartened? Or sometimes we may hear too much glorification also.

Sometimes I say that just become a brahmachari, you are 50% liberated. So, how do we arrive at a proper decision? First thing is that it is very easy to try to reduce a complex situation to just simple polar opposites. Like when America declared a war against the Middle East many years ago.

The American president says that those who are not for us are for the terrorists. No, that's not true. You know, there may be people who are against the terrorists but they are against this particular American war against terrorists.

So, it's not that the only two options are that there is a stable grahastha and there is a bewildered brahmachari. There can be a bewildered grahastha also and a stable brahmachari also. So, we shouldn't reduce complex reality to just simple extremes.

That's the first point. Now, regarding the ashram, I feel that overall we spend too much energy on the ashram that actually so much energy we spend on the ashram that we get distracted from the ashram. The purpose of the ashram is to take ashram of Krishna.

And we lose track of the ashray and we think of the ashram only. This ashram or this ashram. Actually, if we focus on the ashray, that means we try to practise bhakti as seriously as we can then dadami buddhi yogam tam yenam apayanti te.

Krishna will give us guidance about how best we can serve. So, getting too much caught in this or this, this or this, this or this. That indecision that actually in some ways sattva guna and tamo guna look similar.

Rajo guna person is running around, running around, running around. Sattva guna person is sitting, tamo guna also person is sitting. But, where a person sattva guna is sitting, at that time there is internal illumination.

Sarva dwareshu dehejvin prakashyam upajayate. There is clarity of thought internally. But a person in tamo guna, there is internal not illumination but confusion.

Or there is internal just passivity. So, it is that we as sadhakas at our stage, when we have a lower mode within us, we can't really take decisions immediately. So, the most important thing is to try to practise bhakti seriously.

So, there are two levels. One is Krishna directly guiding us from within, dadami buddhi yogam tam. Second is, just by situating in goodness also, there is prakashyam upajayate.

And both can help us to understand ourselves, understand our situation and make a decision. Now, as far as say brahmacharya, brahmacharya is being 50% liberated or something like that. These are occasional statements that Prabhupada may have made somewhere.

But we shouldn't make them into any absolute truth. It is not that just by joining a particular ashram, one can get liberated. Or one can even go half way towards liberation.

One has to live throughout one's life in that ashram. So, such statements, we can take them as an inspiration. But they should not become like the basis for the decision.

The basis for the decision has to be understanding our own nature. Understanding our own inclinations. So, based on that we take certain statements are fine.

And as far as again being bewildered as a brahmacharya or being stable as a karastha, actually it is not just the ashram that brings stability or that causes instability. It is as I said, it is our swabhava, it is our nature and it is our connection with the ashraya that brings stability in our life. And if we are acting in a way that is not according to our swabhava, and if we are not really taking shelter of Krishna, wherever we may be, we will be unstable.

Even brahmacharya ashram also one can be unstable. Even grahastha ashram also one can be unstable. Usually, and another point is, rather than thinking in terms of, within our movement also, there is this dual dynamic.

Now, bhakti is transcendental. Varanashram is not transcendental. Varanashram is ultimately material.

It can be used for transcendental purpose, but it is material. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says, naaham vipronasi narapati. I am not a brahmacharya, grahastha, vanaprastha, sanyasi.

I am not a brahmana, kshatriya, vaisheshudra. So, now, within the traditional culture, so, there is the, you could call it the Vedic view and there is the Vaishnav view. From the Vedic view, the renounced order is higher than the householder order.

From the Vaishnav view, it is one's commitment to Krishna, it's one's bhakti to Krishna, that is most important. Now, often, these two can create a conflict. So, from the point of view of the, from the Varanashram perspective, so, brahmacharya ashram, we could say, is higher than the grahastha ashram.

But from the Vaishnav perspective, it is not. From the Vaishnav perspective, both are paths towards Krishna. And quite often, depending on whom we are associating with, the Varanashram perspective may be given undue importance.

So, if you are associating a lot with grahastha, they may say grahastha ashram is better because it's stabler. If you are associating with brahmacharya, they may say brahmacharya ashram is better. But you have to understand that rather than considering this as multilevel, like brahmacharya ashram as higher and grahastha ashram as lower, you should see these as multiple, not multilevel.

Within Varanashram, it is multilevel. But ultimately, we don't want to stay in Varanashram. We want to go in the transcendental path.

And in the transcendental path, both are paths towards the same goal. And yes, in terms of the facilities for practising direct bhakti, brahmacharya ashram offers much more facilities. So, we stay in the association of devotees, we stay in the proximity of the deities, we are serving Krishna constantly.

So, in terms of facilities, there is no doubt that brahmacharya ashram offers far more facilities for the direct practise of bhakti. At the same time, it's not just in terms of the movement, contribution to the movement. Even the brahmacharis cannot contribute much if there is not a community around it.

So, grahasthas also play a very very important role in the growth of the movement. And grahasthas contribute in a different way. Their contributions may not be so directly visible.

But in terms of, people come to brahmacharis and they may hear classes, they may like them, but they want living examples also. And grahasthas can contribute in a subtler way in one sense, but it's also equally important. And so, that is from the point of view of contribution, we shouldn't think too much in those terms.

If we can contribute more towards brahmacharya, that's excellent. But that is not, as grahasthas also, there is a lot of valuable contribution that is to be done. And in general, yes, it is true that grahastha ashram is more stable than brahmacharya ashram.

And actually, even in the history of ISKCON, in 1979 some survey was done, at that time something like 93% of the devotees in ISKCON were staying within temples. Most of them, at that time grahasthas were also staying in the temples. But 93% of the devotees were in the temples.

Now, if you see, 93% are staying outside the temples. There is a complete demographic shift within ISKCON. And still the Krishna Consciousness movement is growing.

It is growing. And it is growing quite stably also. So, it's not that we have to choose only one particular ashram.

Now, as far as the facilities for practising bhakti, as I said, in grahastha ashram there are distractions, many more distractions. So, there is a distraction for financial anxiety is there, distraction for taking care of family members is there, distraction of, lot of opportunities for sensual distractions are also there. But with all these, one also has an opportunity to practise bhakti in a way that is not very demanding.

So, in general, we have to, before taking this decision, we have to experience bhakti. We want to experience life in a particular ashram. And VTA to some extent we are experiencing life, to some extent like a brahmacharya.

But what we should focus on is the experience of bhakti. And after we get the experience of bhakti, we see how much we feel inspired to do, at what level we feel inspired to practise bhakti. And thinking about, you know, which ashram will liberate me in the future, that is too much long term thinking right now.

Right now, we should think about which ashram can I practise lifelong. If I think that, ok, Ram Jaya Ashram, I will get liberated after 30 years, but then 30 years is not a small time. 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, 50 years, whatever you are going to live, it's not a small time.

And if we find it very difficult or very incompatible, then we will be miserable. But if we can practise joyfully, one of the most important things is if we find some service, if we feel inspired to do, especially if somebody is a brahmachari, gets a taste in preaching. Brahmacharis can do many other services also.

But if we get taste in preaching, then we will be self-motivated. And self-motivation is very important in brahmacharya ashram. Because initially there will be our seniors who will guide us, do this, do this, do this.

But as we grow in our spiritual life, it's not that the seniors are constantly, are you doing this, are you doing this, are you doing this. It will depend on us how much we create goals and strive to achieve goals. So, to some extent if self-motivation is not there, then the mind can make brahmacharya life into hell.

Because that idle mind is there and it can make really life hellish. So, to some extent that self-motivation is not so much required in grahastha life. Because one is already has to earn for a living.

So, that is a necessity. And when the family obligations also come up, there is no one else who is going to do them. So, one has to do them.

So, if we find, even in brahmacharya ashram also there is association, there is inspiration. But one has to have that capacity to take a lot of initiative on one's own account. When we are grahasthas, then we are in a sense pushed to take up the initiative, pushed to do things.

And that also helps us to grow. So, if we feel inspired to practise brahmacharya life in a steady way, without too much difficulty, we can continue. But rather than just letting statements from here or there, that grahastha ashram is more stable or brahmacharya ashram leads to liberation.

No, we have to see what is the best for me. And regarding negativity about any ashram, well, usually within the Krishna conscious movement, depending on where you are, either you have too much negativity about brahmacharya ashram or too much negativity about grahastha ashram also, whichever way it is. So, that is a peril everywhere.

Because generally speaking, the conditioned mind likes to live in extremes. The conditioned mind, if something is good, the conditioned mind makes you think that is the only important thing. And something is not good, that means it is like untouchable.

You should not even consider it. But it's not like that. The conditioned mind tends to go into extremes.

And that is something which we have to avoid. So, yesterday also, yesterday we talked about journal writing. So, journaling helps a lot.

Journaling means, not just we sit down and write for hours, but if we feel, ok, this is the grahastha ashram, this is brahmacharya ashram. What are the advantages for me of this? What are the advantages for me of this? And we write it down and keep it there. So, generally, if thoughts are there only in the head, just keep going round and round in the head and they create mental congestion.

Just can't do anything properly. So, when you are thinking, should I do this, should I do this, should I do this, and I think, just write it down, get it out of the head. When a new thought comes, then write it down.

When a new thought comes, don't start thinking about that thought immediately. Just get it out. Put it out and then there is a time to think about things.

When we are in the heat of the moment, when we are running around, when we already have anxieties, this ashram decision needs to be taken in sattva guna. But what happens is, when we are in rajo guna or tamo guna, at that time we start dwelling on it. And that sort of thinking, rather than leading to any decision, leads to further indecision.

And instead of moving forward, we sort of sink into ourselves. So, this sort of decision can become like a black hole which consumes our consciousness. Just get suckered into it.

So, just write down. Any thought that comes in, you may decide, every week I will spend half an hour thinking about this issue. And at that time, write things, whatever you have written down, keep it in one place, go there and look at it, this, this, this, I didn't have thought of this.

And this week I practised, I got some more thoughts about this. And if we find that for us, say, if you write it down now, and right now you find that for you, the pros of grahastha ashram seem much more than of brahmacharya ashram. Fine.

Then keep writing like this, see after six months, once again. And some more new facets may come in. If after six months you find everything is rapidly changed, terrible, that, that, then you may think, maybe at that time I was exposed to too much criticism about a particular ashram, that's why my views were like that.

But if over a period of time of six months, one year, we find that our thoughts overall stay in the same direction. So, there is always going to be a sine wave in our thoughts. But the sine wave also has a basic platform around which it goes up and down.

So, if we base our decision either on the crest of the sine wave or the trough of the sine wave, we will not take a sound decision. That's why if we keep observing ourselves and observing it's not just in the head. And if we just try to observe, think about our thoughts, we can't think about our thoughts like that.

It's good to get them out. Then we understand the average level of our consciousness. And if that stays more or less similar, then we are quite sound in making the decision according to what we are doing.

And we can make out this was a crest, this was a trough, this was a crest, but this is the overall amplitude. And that way we can over a period of time take a steady decision. And if while we are doing services, while we are practising bhakti, the thought comes, should I do this or should I do that? Don't dwell on that thought.

If only some fresh direction is coming, fresh insight is coming, fresh facts, factor to be considered is coming, just note it down somewhere. But dwelling on that can, as I said, the ashram is meant to take us towards the ashram. But the ashram can distract us from ashram if we get consumed in the thoughts of that.

So, keep the focus on ashram, then Krishna will reveal how best to move forward. Thank you very much. Prabhupada Ki! Jai! Gaur Bhaktivinoda Ki! Jai! Gaur Premananda Ki! Jai!