Dasha Mula Tattva 12 – Enter higher rasas by purification, not imitation

Hare Krishna.

So our discussion on the Shambhool Tattva now. Last two Tattvas we'll be discussing today. So ninth one first.

So the tenth, there are three parts to it. 10 A and B, 2 parts. So, let's go to the 9th one.

10 A and B, 2 parts. 10 A and B, 2 parts. So, we get the mood, of the mood, we get the mood similar to the mood of the intimate associates of Radhakrishna.

Prithivahan manifests in the heart. Paranande Preetin. And that love which brings the supreme happiness, Paranande.

Jagat Atul Sampad Sukham. It is incomparable with any other opulence of this world. Aho, just behold this, how wonderful it is.

Vilasa Khe. And such pastimes, vilasa, vilasa means to delight in. So, in this delightful pastimes we can participate in, we can delight in.

Tattve Paramparicharyam. So, the supreme service in the form of the associates of the Lord, Salabhate. So, essentially the verse is saying, when we become situated in our swaroopa, we at the culmination of sadhana bhakti, when the bhava of prema for Krishna awakens, then we follow in the footsteps of the liberated associates of Raja.

And therein we gain realisation of the parananda tattva. This is known as vilasa and there is no gain greater than this gain. So, here Bhaktivinoda Thakura is talking about the supreme liberation that comes through devotion.

Now, Bhaktivinoda Thakura wrote two main books. One is the Chaitanya Shiksha Amrit and the other is Jaiva Dharma. He wrote many other books, but these two are his primary books.

So, among these two books, through these two books he has given systematic theology of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. So, he among all the respondent acharyas of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Shila Prabhupada. Bhaktivinoda Thakura was the most systematic theologian.

Systematic theologian means that systematically developing one concept, second concept, third concept, fourth concept and starting from the basics, from the universals to the lofty, to the confidential aspect. That sort of systematic presentation of Gaudiya Vaishnavism he has given primarily in these two books, Chaitanya Shiksha Amrit and Jaiva Dharma. So, if we see Shila Prabhupada's writings, Shila Prabhupada's writings are mostly flow of consciousness writings.

Flow of consciousness writings means that Prabhupada reads the purport and he explains the purport. So, the same philosophy of Gaudiya Vaishnavism is there, but it is the topics are distributed according to the purpose. So, it is not that by one we can read one book of Prabhupada, any one book and step by step from the basics to the advanced we can understand the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness.

We have to read a wide variety of books and then we can understand it. So, Prabhupada's style of writing is different and Bhaktivinoda Thakura's style of writing is different. Just like if somebody comes say regularly every day for one year for Bhagavatam class, that person will get a general understanding of the class.

But if a person comes say for one week for Journey of Self-Discovery course, in that what happens the concepts are taken systematically one by one by one. So, Prabhupada's books are like the Bhagavatam class. So, we get the general understanding of the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness, but just as the Bhagavatam class it is not that the previous day, the next day, the next day.

It's not that a theme is being built and systematically things are represented. So, in that sense Bhaktivinoda Thakura was a systematic theologian and we see that in this also. So, of course, Prabhupada had his own style and Prabhupada had his own focus.

Prabhupada's focus he had only 10 years with him and he had to make the Gaudiya Vaishnava legacy accessible as much as possible. So, he focused not on writing a book about systematic theology, but on commenting on the scriptures. So, relatively speaking, see every Acharya makes his own contribution.

Bhaktivinoda Thakura did not write so many commentaries on books. He wrote one book called Bhagavatar Kamarichi Mala which is a thematic analysis of the Srimad Bhagavatam where he takes the various themes of Srimad Bhagavatam and places them in a context and gives verses which talk about those themes. But to write a commentary on the Bhagavatam, it's a huge work.

Or to write a commentary on, Bhaktivinoda Thakura wrote a commentary on Chaitanya Sharitampat. And Amrit Prabhavaksh is there. And he wrote a commentary on the, on the, on Bhagavad Gita.

Actually, he wrote two commentaries on the Bhagavad Gita. But those commentaries are actually not exactly commentaries. They are Vidvatranjan and Amarsikranjan.

Basically, when he read Vishwanath Chakravartak's commentary on the Bhagavad Gita, he translated it. And while translating it, he also gave some additional comments to it. So, that, that means his additional comments along with the Bengali translation of Sarartha Darshini, Sarartha Varshini.

Sarartha Darshini is his Bhagavatam commentary. Sarartha Varshini is his Gita commentary, Vishwanath Chakravartak's. So, his, that is his Sanskrit.

So, when he translated that from Sanskrit to English, sorry to Bengali, along with that he gives some additional points. So, that is his commentary on the Bhagavad Gita. That is called as Asikranjan.

And then we read, we read Gita Bhushan, which is Bhaktivinoda Thakura's commentary on the, Gita Bhushan is Baldev Devji's commentary on the Bhagavad Gita. So, Bhaktivinoda Thakura translated that into Bengali. And while translating that, he also wrote some comments further on that.

So, don't get caught in the names too much. The simple point I am making is that Bhaktivinoda Thakura did not write as many commentaries as did Akshila Prabhupada. Bhaktivinoda Thakura, so different Acharyas contribute to expanding the tradition in different ways.

So, Prabhupada focused a lot on writing commentaries. And many of his small books, if we see, they are not exactly written by Prabhupada. Science of Self-Realisation or Journey of Self-Discovery.

They are basically lectures and conversations of Prabhupada which have been compiled together in a thematic way by his followers. So, Bhaktivinoda Thakura focused on systematic theology. Prabhupada focused on scriptural commentary.

And in that way, the different Acharyas have contributed differently. So, Dashapur Tattva is also a condensed work of systematic theology. Where he is presenting the themes of Gaudiya Vaishnavism in a systematic and progressive way.

So, within a traditional Indian context, if somebody, I want to know what does Gaudiya Vaishnavism teach? So, these ten tattvas which he has said, these can be used as a ten-point summary. Because today when we present it in the modern imposed context, we may have to present it in a slightly different way. But this is how he is doing systematic theology.

So, now here the point being made is that there is, in the Gaudiya Vaishnav Siddhanta, understanding that replication is the means to realisation. Replication means what? Replicate, means to do again. What is done earlier? We replicate or duplicate it.

So, the idea is how does one enter into the spiritual world? How does one become fit to attain the eternal association of the divine couple? So, to realise one's vanupa, there is replication. So, replication means what we would do in the spiritual world, we do here while we are doing sadhana. So, just as say the Gaudiya Vaishna, just as the Gaudiya Vaishnavas in Vrindavan, the Vaishnavas in Vrindavan they are absorbed in Krishna, similarly we strive to be absorbed in Krishna.

So, this is the way by which we can attain the spiritual realisation. So, here I will talk about in terms of how this verse is applicable to us in the modern day Krishna consciousness movement. We will look at the three major historical phases of Gaudiya Vaishnavism and how Gaudiya Vaishnava practise evolved during these three phases.

So, if we see, Rahishya Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was present and even after he left, Gaudiya Vaishnavism was present primarily in three places. One was the Vrindavan area where the Goswamis were there. Second was the Bengal area where Chaitanya Mahaprabhu himself was there.

And the third was the Uttakal area. So, now if we see each of these places had its own dynamics. So, when the Goswamis went to Vrindavan, the Goswamis, Vrindavan although it was close to Delhi which was the capital of the Muslim rulers, still Vrindavan was also close to other places which were centres of learning.

You know, there is Kashi, there is Ayodhya, all these places which are very holy places. So, there now in Vrindavan, there were very few Bengalis over there, not in North India. So, when the Goswamis were sent to Vrindavan, they were practical.

They wanted to establish the legitimacy of Krishna consciousness, of Gaudiya Vaishnavism there. Suppose somebody tells you that you have to go to America and start a preaching centre there. Now will you start a preaching centre and preach in Marathi over there? Obviously not.

If you have to do any kind of outreach there, you have to do it in the local language. So, in North India, Bengali was not the local language. But then all the books that are written by the Vaishnavas in Vrindavan, they are all written in Sanskrit.

And the books written by the Gaudiya Vaishnavas in Vrindavan, all centre on Radha Krishna. The Rupa Sanatana Goswami, none of them wrote any book specifically on Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Because in Vrindavan, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was not known so much.

He had just come for two months and gone. So, if they want to establish Gaudiya Vaishnava Siddhanta, they focused on Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. They focused on Krishna.

Their books are about the pastimes of Krishna, about the tattva of Krishna, about Bhagavata. On the other hand, in Bengal, the Gaudiya Vaishnavas, they wrote mostly books about Lord Chaitanya. And the books written by the Vaishnavas in Bengal were not so much philosophical.

They were biographical. Chaitanya Mangal, Chaitanya Bhagavata, Chaitanya Charita Mahakavya, altogether 24 biographies of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu were written. Just within 100 years of his departure.

So, all of them were in Bengali and all of them were primarily biographical. There was not much philosophy in them. And then if you see this, so in between Bengal also, there was an inimical Islamic ruler over there.

So, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu told the devotees in Vrindavan to build temples at the holy places where Krishna, Radha Krishna had performed pastimes. But Chaitanya Mahaprabhu did not tell any of his associates in Bengal to build temples. No, he did not tell.

We don't see any temple built at that time. At that time, there were small, small temples were there. The first temple that was really, a major temple that was built was what, at the birthplace of Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Bhaktisansha Thakur built the temple.

At the, sorry, at the birthplace of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Bhaktivinoda Thakur had the temple built over there. So, because the atmosphere was inimical, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu encouraged Harinam Sankirti. And most of the temples which were there in Bengal, which were there, they were mostly like house temples.

Temples inside the houses of people and the small altars. Now, in Orissa, there was a royal patronage. Pratap Rudra himself was supporting.

Because that patronage, the bhakti culture was very visibly and lavishly celebrated and shared. So, after Chaitanya Mahaprabhu departed, then the devotee, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu himself did not write much. The different devotees started writing down, what exactly was the teaching of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu? What exactly was the sadhana that Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu taught us? And then, there is Dhyana Paddhati.

Dhyana Paddhati is the method of meditation. So, Krishnadas Giriraj Goswami wrote a book called Govinda Leela Amrit, where he described the different leelas of Krishna. It's a very esoteric book.

But he described how Ashtakali Leela and how one should perform meditation. So, those who are absorbed in Dhyana, they remember, okay, what is the time now? And what is the pastime that Krishna performed at this time in the spiritual world? And accordingly, according to the pastime that Krishna is performing in the spiritual world, they time their meditation accordingly. So, in the morning, Krishna is performing, say, Sankhya's pastimes.

Vatsalya's pastimes, and they perform Vatsalya's. They will remember those Vatsalya's pastimes. Like that, they time their meditation accordingly.

And this was how Gaudiya Vaishnavism was practised for several centuries. But when Rupa Goswami and Jiva Goswami were there, at that time, Akbar was the ruler. And he was a little intolerant.

About 50 to 100 years after that, Aurangzeb came and Aurangzeb devastated everything. Vishwanath Chakraborty, he was born, brought up in Bengal. And he got a vision, he got an inspiration to go to Vrindavan and to recreate everything over there.

So, he recreated everything. But in the meanwhile, he and Vandividya Bhushan, they recreated things in Vrindavan, but in Bengal, things had got deteriorated. So, for 100 years almost, after Vandividya Bhushan, before Bhaktanath Thakur, Gaudiya Vaishnavism, as it was purely understood, was lost.

So, now, by the time Bhaktanath Thakur started reclaiming and restoring Gaudiya Vaishnavism, the socio-political reality of the world had changed. Islam had been beaten back and it was the Britishers who were ruling. And Bhaktanath Thakur was openly appreciative of Britishers.

That was not just because he was working for the Britishers, but because he said that under Islamic rule, we could not practise Bhakti openly. Initially, the East India Company, which was ruling India, they had a policy of non-interference with religious affairs. They said, we have come here for business and we don't want to interfere with the religious beliefs of people.

Because if they rebel against it, then our commercial interest will be lost. So, for many years, the East India Company actually respected the religious affairs. So, whenever Jagannath Rathyatra would go, they would have British employed policemen.

And just like when a Prime Minister comes, you have a Royal Guard which honours. And then bullets are shot to signify the welcome. So, like that, the Britishers, they assisted, the British government actively assisted in the celebration of Jagannath Rathyatra for many years.

So, Bhaktanath Thakur appreciated that. He was Bhaavad Rani. He was Sarag Rani.

Whenever he saw that something is favourable, he accepted that. Now, when he practised and taught Bhakti Siddhanta, the Gaudiya Vaishnava Siddhanta, he focused primarily on its universality. On its universality.

Universality means that how does it apply in the whole world. Although Chaitanya Mahaprabhu talked about Prithvideha Chaitanagaradi Gramme, that holy name is spread all over the world. But the Acharyas after him, they focused primarily on the intellectual audience or the popular audience within their local specific environments.

And Bhaktanath Thakur wrote books for, his primary writings were in Bengali, but he also wrote books in English. And thereby he tried to share, You can go and take rest. You can torture yourself.

You can take half an hour rest. Then you can come back. See, any of you who retired, I know it's a long day.

Already two classes. You can take rest and then you can come back later also. So, Bhaktanath Thakur, he focused on the practical aspects of Gaudiya Vaishnavism in terms of how one should practise sadhana.

So, the focus was not on meditation or esoteric pastimes. The focus was on doing the practical activities of sadhana by which you will become purified and qualified to do that kind of meditation. And Bhaktanath Thakur stressed this all the more.

He is, one of his popular saying was, Raga Marga Pooja Lavan. He said that the Raga Marga, the path of meditating on the esoteric pastimes of the Lord, that is something we should worship. We should not try to imitate that prematurely.

So, his focus was on, he was quite a challenger to convention in that sense. Now, when he went to Radha Kund, people expected him to speak esoteric pastimes of Radha Krishna. But he spoke on philosophical, basics of philosophy.

Why because he said, without siddhantic understanding, the esoteric pastimes, when we imagine that we are relishing them, actually we will perceive them as material. We won't perceive them as spiritual. So, that's why, Raga Marga, what is it, Pooja Lavan, something like that.

Last word I don't remember, Raga Marga. Raga Marga is the path of Raga Bhakti, that is Pooja, it is meant to be worshipped by us. So, now, Bhaktisiddhansa Thakur, what he emphasises, practical performance in devotional activities.

And by that, he said that we become purified. We cannot prematurely imitate the advanced stages of devotion. And that's what Srila Prabhupada emphasised.

Srila Prabhupada was in that sense quite radical. If you read Chaitanya Amrit, parpod after parpod, where Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is in esoteric symptoms of ecstasy, exhibiting. He is in a trance-like state where he is imagining, or not imagining, envisioning.

Imagination means something is not a reality. We try to think of it like that. Envisioning means that what is a reality, but we focus on it.

And that comes to us as a vision. So, here he was, consciousness was transferred to higher levels of reality, where he experienced Radha Krishna's pastimes. Prabhupada in those parpods says that the way to enter into such Radha Krishna's pastimes is by sharing the glory of Radha Krishna all over the world.

By sharing Krishna consciousness all over the world, what will happen? We will develop the mood of service. And by that mood of service, when we please the spiritual master, when we please the Vaishnavas, they will bless us and our consciousness will get elevated. So, here the point is that the way Shastric Siddhanta is to be applied in one's life, that will be living from person to person.

So, Gaudiya Vaishnavism is a vibrant tradition. And the way, even as I said, even in Bengal, even during Mahaprabhu's times, the way Gaudiya Vaishnavism was practised in Bengal, in Orissa and Vrindavan was different. And similarly, over the generations there have been some differences.

The essential principles remain the same, but the practises vary. Some people say that, actually if you don't, some people means, some other Gaudiya Vaishnavas who consider their traditional followers of Gaudiya Vaishnavism and they say that, no, we have to meditate on the past in the Radha Krishna. Without that, how can we develop affection for Radha Krishna? Without that, how can we actually develop love for Radha Krishna? And how can we enter into their pastimes? So, Prabhupada's point was that we have to focus not on imitation, but rather on purification.

So, not on imitation, but on purification. So, when we imitate some things. So, at that time, it is largely something which is imagination-based.

We don't have much realisation of that. So, sometimes there are some devotees, there is one disciple, Akshaya Prabhupada, he came to Vrindavan and then there were some other Gaudiya Vaishnavas who felt, oh, you know, Swamiji, then Prabhupada was called Swamiji at that time. He says, Swamiji is teaching you very basic things.

So, he said that, no, you come to us, we will reveal, this person, I will reveal your Swarupa to you. And then you can practise Bhakti according to your Swarupa. So, he said, I went to him, so, I will reveal my Swarupa to you.

So, I will reveal your Swarupa to you. Then some of the other devotees went to him and they started asking, they started, so, he was in a small room in someone's ashram in Vrindavan, and they asked, what are you doing? So, he was chirping like a parrot, no, like a peacock, you know, he was trying to produce sound like a peacock. And he was moving his neck back and forward, like a peacock moves its neck back and forward.

He says, what are you doing? He says, I have got an advanced Guru now. And that Guru has revealed to me that my Swarupa in the spiritual world is that I am a peacock. And I am practising right now, how to be a peacock in the spiritual world.

So, now, Sri Prabhupada, when he heard this, he actually was very displeased. And when the devotee came back, Sri Prabhupada told him that, actually, if you don't give your body conception, first of all, you cannot imagine such things, you will not make much future advancement. Sri Prabhupada actually preached to that devotee and he understood.

So, at one time, within our movement itself, some devotees, they said that, without going outside the movement, they said that we can focus on the esoteric pastimes of Radhakrishna. So, they formed a club, a group called the Gopi Bhava group. So, what they did was, all the esoteric pastimes of Radhakrishna, they said, we will read them together.

And Sri Prabhupada said, he said, who told you to do so? Then they said, no, Prabhupada, but we want to develop attraction for these things. He says, yes, we develop attraction, but focus on purification first. So, it is not that Krishna, we focus on one particular pastime of Krishna and we do it to other pastimes.

Why should we focus only on the Madhurya's pastimes? See, how it is with respect to Madhurya's pastimes? You know the example of Urdhumoolamadhashakam, that this world is like an upside down banyan tree. Now, suppose there is a mango fruit on that tree. In the reflection, we see the mango fruit, but it is not there.

We see it, but it is not there. So, now, for the very advanced devotees, what happens? Prabhupada Swami says in a prayer that, युद्धीनां यथा युणां युणां जो युद्धीनां यथा, मनो भीरमते तत्र, मनो मेरमतां तोई. He says that, just as a boy is naturally attracted to a girl, or a girl is naturally attracted to a boy, let my consciousness be attracted to you.

So, what does this mean over here? That if a person has really understood this world is a reflection and the spiritual world is the reality, then for that person, when a person sees a man or woman trying to enjoy over here, the person remembers, oh, actually this is a imitation, this is a reflection. Radha Krishna has passed away with the reality. So, when we see the reflection, rather than getting attracted to the reflection, we need to remember, this is the reflection and this is the reality.

Let me aspire for the reality, not for the reflection. But for that to happen, we need to be convinced this is the reflection and that is actually the reality. If you are not convinced that this is the reflection, then what happens for great devotees is the reflection reminds them of the reality.

But if we are not purified, the reality reminds us of the reflection. That means we hear Radha Krishna's pastimes and our sensual desires get aroused. Because we see Radha Krishna's pastimes at a material level.

So, that's why Prabhupada said don't focus on those pastimes at all. In the Prabhupada Gems Krishna book, in which he talked about some of the confidential pastimes of Radha Krishna also. But not only those pastimes, he gave all the pastimes of Radha Krishna and there also he gave adequate philosophical explanation of those pastimes so that people would not misunderstand.

Now, the process of philosophical conviction and devotional purification. Philosophical conviction. Conviction means we understand with our intelligence.

एवं भुद्धे परम्भद्वा संस्थप्यात्मान्मात्मना जहिषत्रुप्महावाओ कामरुपंदराजा Krishna's in 3.43. Using your intelligence, be situated on the spiritual platform. एवं भुद्धे परम्भद्वा Understand that you are transcendental. and संस्थप्यात्मान्मात्मना Fix your consciousness on the spiritual level.

That's what he talks about for the sake of transcending lust, going beyond sensual desires. Now, this is philosophical conviction. We are convinced that I am not the body, I am the soul.

We understand that this is the imitation, this is the reality. The reflection, this is the reality. This is the reflection, I don't have to be attracted to it.

And devotional purification means that we go beyond just the conviction. This is reflection, this is reality. We actually become attracted to the reality.

And we no longer feel such strong attraction to the reflection. And that way we move onwards steadily towards Krishna. So, जगद अतुल संपद सुखम् At that time we experience the Sukha, the happiness that is जगद अतुल.

It is incomparable in this world. The Bhagavad Gita also talks about this. यं लप्द्वा चापरं लावं मन्यते ना देखंतका यस्मिल्स्तित्तो लुखेहं भुरुणाति जाधेते यं लप्द्वा Once when I teach this, चापरं लावं मन्यते ना देखं that there is no gain in relevance, one becomes convinced of this.

When one is convinced thus, then one marches steadily towards Krishna. I want to attain this Krishna. So, for a devotee, this conviction, without that, if you try to trespass into the advanced stages of bhakti, Bhaktiswaran Siddhartha Kulk would quote a biblical saying in the bhakti context.

The biblical saying was Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. Where angels fear to tread. That means angels are cautious.

It's a dangerous place. I should not go there. So, angels fear to tread, but fools rush in there.

What is the danger over there? So, like that, advanced past tense, when they try to trespass to Dada Krishna, they have to be very carefully, reverentially accessed. So, when one rushes into the premature, then one becomes like a fool. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

By serving spiritual master, by assisting in this mission, by practising sadhana bhakti, we become purified. And when we become purified, then gradually we start realising more and more the eternal relationship between us and Krishna. And as we become situated on the spiritual platform, then our sarovar becomes manifested.

So, as devotees we don't need to worry about advanced use of devotion. We need to focus on advancing in devotion. We don't have to worry about what are the advanced uses of devotion, where will I, how will I get there.

We focus on right now, taking one step forward, taking one step forward, taking one step forward. And eventually we will realise what we need to do to attain Krishna and what we, how we need to purify ourselves, how we need to move onwards. These things will all be revealed as we keep moving onwards towards Krishna.

So, I'll summarise. I started by talking about how there are, how when we are situated in our sarovar, then we, on being purified, realise that the, we follow in the footsteps of the pre, of the advanced devotees and we relish the supreme treasure of life, that is Krishna pre. And then here, we discussed how replication, in Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition, replication is the means for realisation.

That means, the way the pastimes are performed by the advanced devotees, the eternal associates of Krishna, when we meditate accordingly on them, then we also gradually develop that mood and realise the eternal reality of those pastimes. We discussed also the different ways in which Gaudiya Vaishnava was expressed, in different geographical areas, Bengal, Vrindavan and Odisha and also in different historical epochs. So, in the time of Islamic rule in India, in the time of British rule and in the time of Shri Prabhupada and thereafter.

So, the acharyas, according to time, place, circumstance, according to the level of consciousness and realisation of people, present the same essential principles, but according to, customised to help the people at that level get elevated. And, just as, if we say that we have to move from the reflection to the reality, then we have to be convinced that the reflection is the reflection and the reality is the reality. But otherwise, we will, if the reflection reminds us of the reality, the reality may remind us of the reflection.

And that way, we may get misled, we may mislead ourselves. So, rather than trespassing into advanced levels of devotion, we focus on whatever bhakti we are practising right now. And we do it step by step and by incremental progress, we will eventually attain the loftiest levels of devotion.

Thank you very much. Are there any questions? Maybe you told about the, different, different, organisations are there. And in that organisation, we came in its con, for scenario that we got some correct path.

But those who are trying to do something for getting a pure and real knowledge, but because of, other organisations which are, not focused on the, progressing path or, like that. But they got by that, so, they are misdirected. So, how we understand that, means that their, choice is wrong or, Okay.

Sometimes people go to various organisations and those may not focus on the ultimate siddhanta. So, how can, these people who are following this, how can we know that their choice is wrong? Or how can we tell them, explain to them, that their choice is wrong? Firstly, when people take to some, join some organisation, the philosophy is only one part of the reasons why they join. Many people join because it gives them a sense of community.

It gives them a sense of cultural continuity. It gives them a sense of, connection with something higher, even if it is not the highest. So, the philosophy plays one aspect in it, is one aspect of that decision.

So, as devotees, when we, try to share Krishna consciousness, we should focus on building bridges, not on, not on breaking walls. What that means is, say if, say we are on a particular mountain, we are practising Gaudiya Vaishnavism and we are now, we have come on one particular mountain. Somebody else is practising something else.

They are somewhere else. So, initially if somebody is committed with some other organisation, rather than trying to, trying to justify how they are wrong and we are right, we focus on, getting them, at some level, appreciate spirituality, as it is presented in the Gaudiya Vaishnav tradition. And gradually we can appreciate, yes, somebody going to a spiritual organisation that is actually good, because how many people have spiritual information in today's world? There are not many.

So, we can appreciate them and then we can share with them, how here there is a systematic structure for practising spirituality, there are young people practising spirituality. We have to see what is it about Krishna consciousness that they may be attracted to. And try to give that in the presentation.

So that, at the very least, if they are there and we are here, we build a bridge between them. And then, after we build a bridge, gradually they start climbing across the bridge and they come to Krishna. Now, you know, after they come to, later on, as they slowly become committed, they have to make a choice.

Should I choose Krishna or should I choose to follow this particular bhava or whatever it is? And, if they have got enough experience of Krishna, then they will become committed to Krishna. They have some taste of Krishna consciousness, they have understanding of the philosophy, they will commit themselves. So, at that time, the bridge that has been built, that can be broken.

They won't go there. But, you know, just when the bridge is built, and they are not even started off, that time you break the bridge. And they will stay there only.

So, what does it mean by we have to build a bridge? See, if somebody is going to some organisation, they already have some level of faith in that organisation, in its teachers, its principles, whatever. So, our challenge is not so much to break their faith there, it is to build their faith in Krishna, in Krishna's devotees. And when this faith in Krishna's devotees becomes strong enough, then the faith can challenge that faith, when it is required, right? But, if they are in the middle of the bridge, and that time you break the bridge.

And they will just fall down. And somebody is worshipping Ganesh, say, and then we have a big fight with him. No, Ganesh is not supreme, Krishna is supreme.

And that person will start thinking, you know, this is all so confusing. Different Puranas say different things. Better not get in this business with me.

And that person becomes an atheist. You know, our purpose is to eliminate people's faith. It is not to destroy people's faith.

So, we have to be sensitive. So, people have different kinds of faith. And Krishna also accommodates different kinds of faith.

This is in the chapter. There are some people's faith may be in goodness, some may be in passion, some may be in ignorance. Wherever they are, we try to elevate them gradually.

So, basically find out, within Krishna consciousness, what is it that may attract them. And even if they don't become attracted to Krishna, if they are appreciative of Krishna, that itself is Ajnaana Sukrti. And that will prepare them for coming towards Krishna.

But if you want to look from an objective point of view, why should their path be considered not correct and our path considered correct? It's not our path, this is Krishna's path. And we have a parampara in which the knowledge is coming. We have extensive coating of Shastra to establish what we are teaching.

Before coming to ISKCON, I also went to a few organisations. And their books when I read, my search was not so much physically going to organisations, because it was more of reading books of various organisations. I found there was good wisdom there.

And there were some inspiring quotes and some nice points there. But they were very little based on scripture. So, the potency of such organisations is based primarily on the charisma of their leaders.

So, it is not based so much on scripture. There are traditional mathas and panthas that are there, that is different. But many of the modern, those which are prominent in today's world are spiritual organisations.

They don't quote much Shastra at all. They are primarily focused on some sort of self-help message, some inspirational message, motivational message. And feel good, just be peaceful and joyful, things like that.

And people get attracted because they want it. They want to be heard because Rajoguna fries out people. And they want some relief.

So, if something offers in Satoguna, they will be attracted to that. So, our focus should be on, if we want to present Siddhanta, at appropriate forum we can present Siddhanta. But it should not be in a confrontational way.

First, we have to build their faith in Krishna. Then gradually their faith in Krishnetara will be challenged and it will be transcended or it will be connected with the ultimate faith in Krishna. That will happen gradually.

So, this one devotee, the prominent congregation leader over here. So, now, so he was, his whole family was a follower of a particular, very famous and respected Baba in India. And respected in the sense that he was also, he also talked about some regulative principles.

He was not a, he was a really really good follower, as Satoguna at least, not transcendent. And then, there was, so he started coming to Krishna Consciousness, to the temple also. And then he was in the dual mode.

Should I go there or should I go here? It was not just that he was a spiritually pure person, their whole family was connected with him. So, his parents, grandparents, they were all connected with him. And he was also talking about Bhagavatam, talking about this.

So, at one time, at that time, there was some accusation made against him about some scandal. So, now when, so this was the days when Maharaj, Rana Maharshi was also there. Very easily available to devotees.

80s, 80s, 80s or early 90s. So, when Maharaj came to know about, one devotee told him, this is the news about this particular accusation. So, Maharaj called all the devotees and said, when he comes to your temple, don't speak about this to him at all.

Our normal salary would be, if there is a person, other guru is accused of something, see, we have told you he is bogus, isn't it? See, now you saw this. No, he said, don't speak about this. And this devotee later told me, that when he came, now after that, wherever he was going, you know, he was going to office, because everybody knew that he was following that Baba.

See, you know, this is what happened to him. This is what happened. Do you know about this? So, he was feeling so… Actually, ultimately, later on, that accusation was proven to be false.

It was baseless. But he said, when he came to the temple, nobody mentioned him to him. Everybody was so nice, so polite, so gentle.

And what happened? You know, he felt, yes, now here, people care for me. People don't just care for increasing their numbers. They care for me.

So, he, after that, became very devoted. And then Radha Maharaj told him, one time, this programme was there in his father's house. So, Radha Maharaj told him, you go for that programme, and offer your obeisance to him and seek his blessing.

Tell him that I feel inspired to practise Bhakti in his school, and I seek your blessings from you. And he, when he saw that how sincerely he was practising, humbly he went, he gave his blessings. So, we don't have to create a rupture.

When I was in hostel, this is one example of sensitivity. The other example is that, when I was in the hostel, a programme was held in my room. So, I had got a very good score in GRE at that time.

So, because of my GRE score, people came to see. People came to the programme. What is going on? So, I was sort of one of the intellectual leaders of the hostel.

There was another student who was like a social leader, a nationalistic kind of person. So, he came to the programme, he liked the programme. Once, I asked him to come to a temple.

And at that temple, the temple was very small, and there was a big crowd for the festival. So, I couldn't meet him in the temple. So, he met some other devotee.

And now in India, anybody, young people, any young people, if you ask about spirituality, there are some spiritual leaders they all know. You know, somebody who has gone to America, become very famous over there. So, he asked this devotee, what do you think about so and so Swami? And this Brahmachari, maybe he had some virya rasa excess at that time.

So, he said, Usko toh narak mein bhi jaga nahi milega. He will not find a place even in hell. He was so upset.

He went back to the hostel and told everyone in the hostel, this is what these people think. Now, the new people, what philosophy? First of all, how do you know? Are you Paramatma to know that somebody has not even gone to hell? How can we make a valid judgement like that? And first of all, and even if it is true, there is a call and time and place and circumstance we have to speak things. So, it was like so much anti-preaching.

For several weeks after that, practically nobody came for our programme. And what happened by that? Rather than he having his faith challenged over there, he lost whatever interest he had in this con. And that boy was a really serious spiritually interested boy.

Now, he is a sannyasi in that same organisation about which this devotee told him, Usko narak mein jaga nahi milega. So, rather than our words attracting him towards Krishna, we repelled him from Krishna and sent him right into that very organisation. So, he is like one of the prominent national leaders over there.

And I am in touch with him a little bit occasionally. So, he told me that now he also realised it is not that everybody in this con is like that. It is not that here people are intolerant.

But he said that he just lost interest in this con. It took many years for him. He went to Mayapur and saw what is happening in Mayapur.

And afterwards, slowly started appreciating that what you are doing is also good. But, you know, generally we say that our words are meant to attract people to Krishna. We are not just meant to speak the truth.

We are meant to speak the truth in a way that attracts people to the truth. We are meant to speak the truth in a way that attracts people to the truth. If we speak the truth in a way that repels people away from the truth, Then what is the use of speaking the truth? What service have we done? We may think, I spoke the truth, but it's like operation successful, patient dead.

The purpose of the surgeon is, the surgeon has got a heart problem, he is curing the heart. And there is a lung surgery to be done, the surgeon is doing the lung surgery, and while he is doing the lung surgery, he cuts off the heart, and he says, no, I cured the lungs. But you cut the heart in the patient, heart is not my problem, I am a lung surgeon, I cured the lungs.

You cannot fragment a person like that, isn't it? So similarly, we can't say that I spoke the truth to whatever that person took in whatever way they took, that's their problem, no, that's not their problem. It's our responsibility to be sensitive. Just like any medical, any responsible medical doctor, when they give treatment, when they prescribe any treatment, the first thing that they do is ask for a past case history.

Now do you have any, do you have any of this problem, do you have any of that problem, do you need to do this, do you have any complications from the past? And they have to adapt their treatment accordingly. So knowing the past case history, and adapting the treatment appropriately, that is the doctor's responsibility. That is not, you cannot say that, doctor cannot say that, oh, he did not, I did not know the case history, so I did this and the patient died.

No, that is your responsibility. So we have to, we are speaking, if people have certain sentiments about certain people, especially when we talk about any specific spiritual teachers, you know, criticising people by name is always a very bad idea. Because as soon as there are persons come in, there are sentiments, there is affection.

And when there is sentiments and there is affection, and there is affection or respect, then people don't think rationally. People think emotionally. And when they think emotionally, then they just don't think in terms of, okay, what does philosophically sound, what does philosophically not sound, just close down at that time.

So rather than, rather than saying, passing a value judgement about any spiritual teacher, what we can focus on is, okay, what is his philosophy? And then when they speak of philosophy, sometimes, most of the time, they don't even know what is the philosophy. So if they see certain philosophical points, we can say, okay, this part is right, but this part is not so sound. How do you think this makes sense? This doesn't make sense.

And gradually, that way, we can attract them to Krishna. So we don't damage people's faith, but we elevate people's faith. Elevating means we act in such a way and we present Krishna Bhakti in such a way that their faith in Krishna is developed.

And as their faith in Krishna is developed more and more, then their faith in Krishnetara can be challenged and transcended. Does this answer your question? Any other questions? Actually, you told about remembering Krishna's pastimes. Which pastime, there is a criteria, which pastime we should remember? Because if we read Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, most of the time, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu remembers Krishna's pastimes.

So should we know all the types of remembering? Okay. So, if you have to remember Krishna, which pastime of Krishna can we remember? It is not that we should not remember some pastimes. Any pastime we can remember.

But what Srila Prabhupada's concern was that if we focus exclusively on the Madhurya pastimes, Krishna's pastimes of the gopis, then because we still have material conceptions, so we may misunderstand. So we, generally, the Bala Leela is very sweet to memorise, to recollect. We have Damodarashtakam and many of the childhood pastimes of Krishna.

So Bala Leela's pastimes, Sakya Leela's pastimes, Mahabharata's pastimes of Krishna are very eligible. So this way if we start remembering Krishna's pastimes and even when we are remembering the Madhurya Leela's pastimes, if we focus not so much on the specifics of the pastimes, as the prayers within the pastimes. Gopi Gita is very sweet and uplifting to recite and to sing and to contemplate.

We don't have to necessarily meditate on the forms of the gopis and the pastimes specifically. That may be a little disturbing for us. Prabhupada when he was asked that, you know Prabhupada, you said that the pastimes of Krishna are confidential, Krishna's pastimes of the gopis.

But then you have given us Krishna book and you said Krishna book is for distribution to everyone, even new people. So how is that? Prabhupada said yes. But there is so much other things in Krishna book also.

Not just gopis, those esoteric pastimes of Krishna with the gopis. So if we find a particular pastime very relishable, how Krishna rescued Udraupadi or how Krishna countered Kalia or whatever. If we find a particular pastime relishable, surely we can contemplate that pastime.

But contemplating that pastime and meditating on that pastime, we can do it through a scriptural framework. That means we memorise some verses or we memorise some songs and we contemplate those songs. So we have to, Prabhupada when he was asked whether we can read the pastimes of Krishna with the gopis, we can rascal the pastimes from Krishna book.

Prabhupada said, Prabhupada's approach is pragmatic. He says that you read the pastime and if you find you are getting agitated, then stop reading it. So the idea is that it's not that Jayanand Maharaj tells us that at one time some devotee had written an article about the Rasatila and the editors they said that no, no Rasatila is too advanced.

We cannot write about this in that world. So that devotee wrote to Prabhupada. Prabhupada said, is it bad? No, the devotee is not right.

One of the editors had little doubt. He says, is it that we should not talk about the gopis in Krishna? So Prabhupada said, what do you mean? He said, are you going to boycott the gopis from BTG? He said, the gopis are our worshipable models. We cannot boycott them.

He said, but they are present. If you write about them, write about them in a proper way so that people don't just see them as Krishna as a boy and gopis as girls. They see them in the proper worshipable mood.

So if we have the proper mood and if by reading even the confidential pastimes we feel our consciousness being elevated then we can read those pastimes also. But we shouldn't focus only on those pastimes. You focus on the pastimes which inspire us the most but it is unlikely that just the Madhuras pastimes what is going to inspire us the most.

Because at our level when we have problems and see how Krishna rescues devotees from problems how Krishna helps in wonderful ways that is what is likely to attract us the most. So we can have individual choice about which pastimes we meditate on but we should be careful that the meditation is done in a devotional mood and it enhances our devotion. Not that in the name of devotion our contemplation goes towards sensuality.

Yes, last question. Then we have a break up. Question from the audience.

So we present but we make the things more complex and in a way that it is very difficult to digest them also and then it gets very, not easy. We are some of the following system. It's a part of our life and we think it's very easy and everybody can follow.

But when we present it, we make it very complex. So how we can balance as an acharya balancing it and making available that very highest philosophy in a very approachable way in our behaviour and our talk and presenting and all that so that the common people can hear it. So how can we, so the acharyas are presented in a contemporary way.

How can we present in a contemporary way? Sometimes we tend to make things very complex. Yeah, that's why we need guidance. You know, it is not that, you know, when say, when even an acharya, it's not that today they are introduced and tomorrow they start writing books.

No, they study for sometimes decades and decades and then after that they write books. So we also, we are in a situation of spectacular spiritual ignorance. You know, today's culture.

So even if we have like very little knowledge as compared to what people have that is such profound ignorance that even our little knowledge seems to be a lot of knowledge. So because of that, because there is an emergency just like normally there is a sickness, people go to a hospital and there are trained medical staff who administer the medicines and treat. But when there is an epidemic, then to assist the trained medical staff there are other people who may also not be so well trained but they also go there, take this medicine, give this to them.

But while we are doing that, it is not that a person who is just, who is just like a semi-trained assistant in the medical staff, that person starts going and doing a complex surgery. No, that person should just deliver the medicine and that person should connect. Okay, this case seems to be connected to some other doctor, take it to some other doctor.

And unfortunately what happens is that the newer we are, the more confrontational we are. Because when you are new and we have come to some path, we are like, yes, I am right and you are wrong. And we want to prove I am right and you are wrong.

So, it's like the kind of sensitivity with which advanced devotees deal with certain situations. You know, that means if there is a very, if there is a senior surgeon, the surgeon knows. If I do the surgery, I have to take care of so many things.

And after that the surgery is done. But we are like new people and we think I have to do the surgery. That's all.

So, often our surgery causes more damage than good. So, that's why we have to learn that we are just like secondary tertiary assistants of the doctors. And we should just be their messengers, try to give their message in a palatable way.

So, we can use some small books such as Prabhupada. Now many of Prabhupada's followers have written books. Prabhupada's disciples, Prabhupada's grand disciples.

And some small books. Nowadays on social media also we get lot of nice articles. So, which articles are suitable for new people, we can send those articles to people.

We don't have to give the whole philosophy to all of them. When I had asked once Jayadvait Maharaj, Maharaj, you know, how do I preach to my parents? Maharaj said, by letting everyone, by letting them be preached to by anyone except you. I said, you don't preach to them.

Because he said that they have seen your small children. They feel difficult for them to learn from you. So, if we rather than taking a superior position and this is not right, this is right, you should not do this, you should do this.

No, we just behave nicely with them. And let them come to temple, let them meet other devotees and let them learn from there. So, again it's a matter of, first of all, sensitivity.

For ourselves if we see it took so much time and effort for us to accept Krishna. For others also it will require time and effort. They need their room to make the choice.

So, we shouldn't accelerate the process, hasten the process. And it's good to basically act as connectors between Krishna's devotees and them. Rather than thinking that we ourselves have become the transformers.

And presenting according to time and circumstance requires time and maturity. So, by seeing how, especially if you want to do that, whenever we see senior devotees, those senior devotees who are good at speaking to new people, how they speak, how they write, how they present themselves, we should read that kind of books, hear that kind of lectures and collect those points and then speak that kind of points. For new people if you just speak whatever you heard in Bhagavatam, it will just not make much sense to them, quite often.

So, by first of all recognising our limitations and recognising our role as connectors with senior devotees and by focussing on presentations which are done by devotees from new devotees and selecting points for them to speak in, that way we can learn to become sensitive according to time and circumstance. There are a few questions people ask and they have to take very seriously, like their time is long. So, on these questions, it is very difficult to diagnose.

So, what type of answers would you give for such questions? If you are sure that you know. So, if people ask according to high standards of living, so, we can say that this simply shows that we take our relationship with God seriously. If you take your relationship with your family seriously, if your wife is sick, if your child is sick, you may be in a conference in America, you leave that and come back home.

Why? Because you take that seriously. So, we are not just sentimentalist and think everything is right. We consider God to be a reality and we focus on our relationship with God seriously.

At the first point we can talk about it. Another point we can talk is that this is not an imposition. No one forced us to do this.

No one forced anyone to do this. No, it is a progression. We heard the philosophy, we chanted a few rounds, we got some nourishing spiritual experiences and that's why we felt convinced to do this.

We felt inspired to do this. So, Krishna's mood is, deliberate on this and do as you desire. Krishna says in 85, 63.

So, we can also present the same thing. No, it is not that just by exploring Krishna consciousness, it is necessary that you have to come to these standards. You explore.

If it makes sense, you can continue it. If it doesn't make sense, it's up to you. So, rather than presenting this as absolute entry-level requirements, we can present this more as an invitation.

This is what we experience. This is what we do. And we experience something, that's why we are doing something like this.

So, one of the things which people do observe, if we are well situated in bhakti, people observe that we are relatively peaceful, we are relatively joyful. Even without doing the things which people think are enjoyable. See, initially people may think that there are so many restrictions in your life.

You are not enjoying life. But then they will see, if they associate with serious devotees, they will see that actually this person seems happy. It's not that the person is discontented.

It's not that the person is struggling to say no to things. Then they will think, they will also start thinking, what is this person getting? Must be getting something here, because of which they follow something like this. So, we don't emphasise, even if we don't have to hide these, regulative principles and our standards, we don't have to emphasise them.

We can present those aspects of Krishna Bhakti, which are likely to appeal to them, and gradually inspire them to explore. And when we have that invitational mood, not an impositional mood, then if they are open, they will explore. And gradually, if they come to the temple, they get some spiritual experiences, then they will be attracted more and more to practise this.

So, our focus should not be on what they have to give up, but focus on what we are offering them. So, Prabhupada will give the example that, you know, if you want a diamond, once a person understands the value of a diamond, that person is ready to pay the price for it. But if the person doesn't know what a diamond is, and then we say this is 25 lakhs, why should I spend 25 lakhs? First tell people what a diamond is.

And once they understand what a diamond is, then they will be ready to pay the price. So, it's not that if somebody is advertising a product, it's not the first thing they say, this is the price of the product. Isn't it? First thing they say, this product is so good, this is like this, this is like this, this is like this, and then somewhere, small place, they will put the price.

Many times in advertising, they don't even put the price. Isn't it? So, the point is, when we are trying to attract people, we have to focus on how good what we are offering is, not what the price is. The price will come later.

It is, if the advertisement begins with the price, that is not an advertisement, that is actually something which is repelling people. So, we get the dynamics wrong. Sometimes we are proud of our principles.

And then we try to boast, this is what I follow. Well, that is, that is our ego acting. That is not our compassion.

We are not becoming channels for Krishna's compassion. Okay. Thank you.

Great, Krishna. So, it's 6.20, 6.15. So, 10 minutes, 15 minutes. 6.30, we will start again.

Hare Krishna.