​Balancing renunciation with responsibility

​Bhagavatam class on 2.5.5 at ISKCON, Central New Jersey, USA

So, any kind of questions or comments? Thank you. Thank you very much.
Questioner asks, why can’t we live with discarded clothes from the roadside? Why can’t we just eat fruits, drink water, and live in peace? Now, is this something, every statement has some emphasis. So, the emphasis of this statement is the last line. So, the point of this verse is not that everyone should live like this.
But the point of the verse is, why should the mermaid, cover girl, flatter those who are intoxicated by wealth, for the sake of gaining something for their subsistence. So, Shiva Prabhupada often uses rhetorical ways of speaking. And in the rhetorical ways used, for example, Prabhupada says that, even if a person is drunkard, the person can think the taste of wine is Krishna.
And by thinking the taste of wine is Krishna, one day that person will become a great devotee. The point of this verse is not that we should drink. The point is that, think of Krishna better, earlier.
Similarly, the point of this verse is not that everybody has to live like this. You may see in the Vedic culture, there are descriptions of how to build houses, there’s architecture, there’s a description of how to dress, there’s a description of how to earn one’s livelihood. So, this is not an absolute mandate for everybody.
The emphasis is that, why you won’t flatter the wealthy to gain some facilities from them. You can have pain, the facilities will come, you just stick to everyone’s dharma. So, the word dharma, actually, Prabhupada talks in the Purport about the dharmas in Vyasa.
And then he talks about how there are dharma for everyone. Now, the word dharma is often translated as law or religion or code. That is one translation.
It is valid in some places. But dharma essentially refers to the essential order that underlines the universe. And the activities which we do by which we can harmonize with that order.
So, there is an order underlying this verse. And when we do activities by which we harmonize with that order, then that comprises dharma. So, there are, for different people according to different natures, different positions, there will be different activities that they need to do to harmonize with the order of the universe.
So, for Sannyas, there is a particular way to do it. For Vyasa, there is a particular way to do it. And, in general, the world’s religions can be classified into two.
There are religions which emphasize the renounced order. And there are religions which de-emphasize the renounced order. So, for example, if we consider Christianity, originally there were Catholics who were Christians.
But, if we consider the Protestants, you know, their founder Martin Luther, he was a monk who eventually gave up monkhood and married a nun. And he wrote one of the most scathing literary history against monkhood. And he said, this is not practical, this is torture, this is not necessary.
And since the Protestants don’t have any monks at all. Now, if we see in the Vedic tradition, there are always both, there will be the householders and there will be the renunciates. If we look at Islam also, they don’t have any tradition of monkhood.
There are certain religions which don’t have a tradition of monkhood. There are some other religions which have a tradition of renounced order. So, now the broad difference between these two is that in the religions where there is focus on the next world, where there is focus on the next world and the understanding of the other world is spiritual, then the renounced order is emphasized.
The renounced order serves as an example of how one has to live to attain the other world. But in many religions, the conception of the other world is also very material. For example, in Christianity, the idea is that heaven is like a perpetual family reunion.
All your deceased family members will reunite with you when you go to heaven. And in Islam, according to some interpretations of Islam, the conception of Jannah is where the martyr can enjoy so many 73 virgins or whatever. So actually, it is a very materialistic conception of the other world.
When they have that materialistic conception of the other world, then even in this world, the renunciation is very much emphasized. So, you see, where the religions which have no renounced order, they tend to become highly materialistic. So, America was founded largely by Protestant religions.
And Protestants largely work on what is called as prosperity theology. Prosperity theology is the idea that worldly prosperity is the proof of our piety, is the proof of our devotion. So, if we are devoted to God, that means we will be prosperous in this world.
So, their interpretation was, in the countries which are poor, their poverty is the proof that they are not devoted to God. And our prosperity is the proof that we are devoted to God. So, their prosperity theology is actually not directly in the Bible, but it is a derivative of the Bible.
And that theology actually perpetuates materialism in the name of religion. And this is seen even more in Islam, where the idea is political conquest is seen as the proof of one’s faith in God, one’s devotion to God. The very fact that we are devoted, that’s why we won this war, that’s why we have conquered so much, that’s why we have achieved so many things.
So, actually, the materialism is very natural in this world. And there has to be always some restriction or some counterbalance to the materialism that is natural. And that counterbalance is provided by the renounced order.
Now, of course, if you see, the balance can shift this way, it can shift that way also. The balance can shift too much towards materialism, where prosperity in this world itself is emphasized. And sometimes the balance can shift in the other direction also, where too much renunciation is emphasized.
And practical contributions in this world are not given that you need. So, when that happens, then people become very dismissive about this world. And if people become very dismissive about this world, then the administration of this world, the establishment of dharma in this world, all that can become limited.
So, when people are going too much towards renunciation, it is also not balanced. It has to be a balance between them. So, if we see, there is a chakra always in the context that is important.
The Bhagavad Gita and the Bhagavatam both talk about bhakti, but their model of bhakti is significantly different. The Bhagavad Gita’s model of bhakti is engaged bhakti. Practically nowhere in the Bhagavad Gita does Krishna endorse renunciation.
Because the context is, Arjuna can do his duty primarily by fighting the war. So, therefore, in order to fight the war, Arjuna needs to do his duty. He cannot renounce the war.
Whereas, the Bhagavatam is spoken to a person who is about to die, Karishma Maharaj. And he has also accepted his death. His inevitable death.
So, at that time, if he is given appropriate instruction, which will inspire him to become the Dalai Lama, he can. And focus on absorbing his evolution. So, in a practical life, as a devotee, you may see that if somebody is a young, energetic devotee, and that person is at the sense depressed, or if they become lethargic, apathetic, the person says, I just want to go to the Tao, which has to go around the world.
Well, you don’t have to do that. You have so much energy. You do practical services, to preach, to do good works, to help in building a temple.
What are those? It’s only practical services. You do that. So, now Mr. Rupa, he is not a true devotee who is going to the Tao and becoming a Babaji.
He can do practical services as well. On the other hand, if we know such a devotee who has got terminal cancer, and they are going to leave him maybe one month or so, and that guy can say, oh, I want to build this temple, I want to raise funds for this temple. Don’t bother about this.
All this is Krishna-related. You people should absorb yourself in Krishna. So, at that time, they will know, just hear about Krishna.
I am Krishna-related. Surround yourself with spiritual pleasures and lose yourself in Krishna. So, about Nisha Vidana, it is said, Iti mati uko talpitaam Krishna That is, just before he departed from the world, at that time, he withdrew his consciousness from everywhere else and invested it in Krishna.
Now, what does this mean? Was he not devoted to Krishna throughout his life? He was devoted to Krishna, but he was also acting in this way. So, when he has to fight a war, when he has to manage a kingdom, when he has to dispense justice, at that time, he is not just lost in thoughts of Krishna. He has to think about the issues and act in viability of the issues in a mood of service.
But at the time of death, he completely withdrew himself. So, prior to this, the Bhagavad Gita again instructed Maharaj about Dharma, about Rajya Dharma, about Shastriya Dharma, about various kinds of Dharma. Shakti Parva and Anushasan Sarva and Mahabharata are among the longest sets of instructions in Mahabharata.
And Nisha Vidana talked about all these different topics to guide Nisha Vidana. And then he focused on Krishna. So, the point is that in different contexts, different kinds of instructions need to be given.
And if there is in the Bhagavad Gita, it is that everybody needs to give instruction according to their level. If they are giving instruction which is not according to their level, they can become misled. They can get lost.
Say, a father has two children. And one of them is a very good student. Say, he gets 80% marks.
And the other is a very below average student. He just gets 40% marks. And say, both of them have come.
And they have got their results. And both of them have got 60%. Ya.
The person who used to get 40% marks, he was very nice. And the second person, he was very bad. The second person, both of them got 60%.
And he says, why are you raising me? I am doing my best, I think. For 80% person to come up to 60% is a lot. But for 40% to rise to 60% is good.
When 40% has risen to 60% and then he is told, Bajaj, why did you not make it to 80%? Well, for him, to rise to 60% itself is good. Isn’t it? And that is to be appreciated. But from the 80% perspective, 60% is not so good.
So, like that, there are always levels in the practice of dharma. And instruction has to be given according to the level of the person. So, for somebody who is just a materialist, an atheist, if they start worshipping the Devatas, that is good.
If they can worship Krishna, that is great. But if they can’t, it is not that I can condemn them for worshipping Devatas. Worshipping Devatas is much higher than being a theist or a cosmopolitanist.
And so there is a level and for higher people, progress is gradual. So, the Bhagavad Gita is giving us Paradharma. Dharma that enables us to attain the highest destination.
Now, that destination is the ultimate goal of every human, but that may not be the immediate goal of every human. So, in this case, this section is primarily talking about enunciation. And the emphasis is, you know, if you see Shri Atanthapada talks about how we can learn fruits from the tree, or we can drink water from the river.
But then Shri Atanthapada had Shri Atanthapada himself did not live there. Shri Atanthapada demonstrated the spirit of enunciation when he left all alone. Shri Atanthapada said, there is an empty pier.
Shri Atanthapada went all alone to America at an advanced age. And he went to a never heard about Krishna and knew Krishna. There were mysterious things.
But once he saw a creature, he adopted that which was suitable for him. So, Prabhupada was in Singapore and in Hong Kong. And at that time he was in a very opulent hotel.
An interview was going on. So, the reporter asked him, Swamiji, you are an NCA. Why are you staying in this big hotel? So, Prabhupada said, I can sit under a tree.
But if I call the press conference under a tree, who do you have to call? Full of people. Sometimes, you know, we have to do the needful for ensuring that Krishna’s message reaches the people. So, the renounced order has to be devoted to Krishna.
But the devotion to Krishna does not necessarily have to manifest only in total rejection. Sometimes, they may adopt something from this world so that they can attract people in this world towards Krishna. So, there is always this dynamic aspect of the practice of bhakti where there are principles that are internal.
But practices are contextual. We cannot make the practices internal. So, for example, in the past, Prabhupada says how the sannyasis would go to the householders and they would do spiritual knowledge.
And then the householders would give some donations. So, that was an opportunity for the householders to actually make spiritual growth by that. When Sri Prabhupada came to America, he did not have that facility.
And the people had no appreciation of the renounced order. And no culture of contributing to the renounced order. So, what did Prabhupada do? Prabhupada said, let us have good distribution.
The principle is when we, in the renounced order or whatever that goes by, the purpose is to get, to give knowledge to Krishna. So, that knowledge can be given through talks. The purpose of good distribution is the same as the purpose of renunciates travelling around and giving any spiritual knowledge.
But the practice is different. So, Prabhupada would give books and people would give some charity. So, if you just give knowledge, people would appreciate you also.
But if there is something tangible like a book to give, people appreciate that. So, you know, when the practices themselves are made determinable, that becomes fanaticism. The practices can be called timeless constructions.
The principles are determinable. The practices will… So, here… Prasmanandha Jyotika Vyodhana Dharmadhamana. Why should the learned flatter the well-being? So, what does this mean? This means simply that that the renounced order, they are going to share spiritual knowledge.
And for that purpose they may interact with the well-being. But quite often those who are well-being, they are used to a culture of sycophancy. When well-being people are surrounded by others who praise them, who glorify them.
And the renounced order has to play into that culture. And then they have to play into that culture. What they have to do is they have to make sure that they enable people who they interact with to come closer to Krishna.
So, just I was in Lajju a few days ago. And there I met an Ambarish Kuru. So, Ambarish Kuru he tells that he is Alfred Ford.
So, his great grandfather was Alfred Ford. So, Prabhupada first met Ambarish Kuru, Alfred Ford. The first and the only to do Siddhi, Vedic dance and all.
The first question that Prabhupada asked where is he now? Where is he now? So, Ambarish Kuru writes that I met him, I met him. Prabhupada, he is Siddhi. Now, he is Siddhi.
Where is he now? The point is that he has so much wealth. But now he has gone somewhere else. Somewhere else he has left that behind.
So, the point is that actually there are things in this world which can’t be known. But we have shown the eternal and we have eternal knowledge. Prabhupada gave us that knowledge.
So, whatever is required to give that knowledge, the saintly people need to do that. Sometimes we may go to wealthy people and if we have spiritual stature like Prabhupada, we come to their religions. Or sometimes we may talk or relate with them and inspire them to serve Krishna.
But we don’t have to flatter them in the sense of just not giving them any spiritual wisdom and just trying to get into their circle so that they give us good. So, we want to be in Krishna’s service. And for that whatever practical approach is there, that’s fine.
So, here the emphasis is on this. Don’t give up your principles just for the sake of maintenance. And that principle can be applied in all orders of life according to time and circumstances.
So, there is two extremes. One extreme is that we think that Krishna is the maintainer and therefore I don’t need to do anything. I don’t need to work.
I don’t need to make plans. I don’t need to have savings. Krishna is there.
He will take care of it. Now, this can be the mode of pure loving. But this can also be the mode of irresponsible person.
We see that in the culture of dharma that this is where people maintain themselves. So, just to take care of everything and to not worry anything about one’s maintenance. Thinking that Krishna will take care that can be exorbitant and that can be irresponsible also.
So, there is still reality to follow or take care of. The other extreme is to think, Oh, Krishna will not do anything. Therefore, I have to do whatever it takes.
And we abandon our principles also for the purpose of maintenance. But between these two extremes, the balance sheet is that we understand that Krishna is the maintainer but Krishna retains by also giving us intelligence, by giving us everything. So, we see that there are two modes of surrender.
There is Gopati surrender which raises her hand and says, Krishna surrendered. But in the Bhagavad Gita also concludes with Krishna with Arjuna surrender Ma becomes Arjuna and Arjuna surrenders. But what is Arjuna surrender? Arjuna himself is the one who is ready to fight.
Yathriyogeshwara Krishna Nithyapadhyayoga. So, his dependence on Krishna, surrendering to Krishna, doesn’t just mean that we do nothing. We think Krishna will do everything.
Surrendering to Krishna means also that we do, we use everything that we have in Krishna’s service. So, if we have intelligence, we have abilities, we should use them in Krishna’s service. And as long as the purpose of surrender, Krishna has kept steady, everything else follows by Krishna’s mercy.
So, he will give us the intelligence, he will give us the resources, just like he gave Shri Prabhupada. By which Prabhupada was able to establish this extraordinary global movement for sharing of knowledge. So, here last year I had come, and this year I have come.
The temple is wonderfully transformed. And this is testimony to all of your dedication and commitment. And Krishna is showering his blessing and reciprocation with your commitment.
very good to see this wonderful reciprocation between Krishna and all of you. So, I summarize. I started by talking about how there are rhetorical statements where the emphasis has to be understood.
For example, Krishna can think of Krishna, the emphasis is to think of Krishna, not that we have to. Similarly here, the emphasis is not that we have to live on this target globe or even he used. But the emphasis is, don’t flatter the wealthy, just for the sake of maintenance.
And we discussed how Karpat Shri Prabhupada put an announced order and there are religions which reject the announced order and there are religions which emphasize the announced order. Those who reject the announced order they tend to become very materialistic. The conception of the other one is also materialistic.
And the announced order plays an important balancing role where the materialism that is normal in this world that is counterbalanced by the example of those who are announced. But at the same time, sometimes the balance can go too much in the other direction. In balance, where religion sees too much of the universe and then, in this world, responsibility and we want everything to be balanced so that there is balance between the two.
And dharma actually means the order of the universe and the activity that we do, to harmonize with that order. And we see that this balance between these two aspects, the engaged aspect and the announced aspect, can see in the two different modes of the people present in the Bhagavad Gita and the Mahabharata. Bhagavad Gita is a true renunciation focused on engagement.
Because that is the context. Arjuna absolutely agrees. Krishna has pronounced the word.
He is about to leave his body. Just this kind of verses and this mood, pronouncing everything. Don’t worry about engagement.
Just focus on Krishna. Like a young devotee who wants to chant 64 hours, they don’t do that. The devotee who is about to leave the body Don’t worry about engagement.
Just focus on Krishna. So according to context, the message has to be customized. So we discussed about how the announced Bhagavad Gita.
Prabhupada, he talks about this in the Bhagavad Gita, but he did not actually implement that. There are principles and there are practices. Principles are eternal, practices are contextual.
So Prabhupada, he exhibited the principle of renunciation completely because of Krishna becoming alone to America. But once the institution was established, he created systems by which the institution could be maintained and everything could be sustained. So for example, he adapted the traditional system of renunciation is going to the house of the Lord in the form of a new institution where by tangentially giving spiritual knowledge the purpose remains the same, the principle remains the same, but the practice is adapted.
And lastly, we discussed about how even with respect to maintaining oneself there are two extremes. One is one thinks that Krishna will take care of everything and one does not do anything practical. And the other is that one does everything practical and thinks that Krishna will not do anything practical so I have to do everything myself.
And I need to put my principles also forward. No. The Bhagavad Gita is over here.
Stick to one’s principles and do one’s responsibility also. And that way, Saraswati is not just raising one’s hand at the Lord. Saraswati is also raising up one’s bow for fighting.
We should do our responsibilities to the best of our capacity using what Krishna has given us in this sense. Thank you very much. Do you have any comments, corrections? Jai! Jai! Jai! Jai! Jai! Jai!