Consciousness, the subconscious and conscience – understanding and transforming our inner world
Hare Krishna. So thank you all for coming here today evening. And I'll speak on the topic of the subconscious, conscience and consciousness.
So, basically at the discussion centre on the mind, understanding and tapping the power of the mind. So now, the word mind itself has many meanings. The Bhagavad Gita uses it in a particular sense.
For example, before we go to the Bhagavad Gita sense, let's look at, say people may say, Einstein was the greatest mind, scientific mind of the last century. Now here the word mind is used to refer to intelligence, the intellectual capacity. So the word mind can be used in that sense also.
Or somebody is being very attentive, going here, going there, looking at this, looking at that. Give me your full mind. Give me your attention.
So, nowadays there is the whole idea of mindfulness. Now be mindful. So mindful actually means attentive.
Attentive. Can you have this way so that if anybody comes in, it will not be… Yes. So we have, the Bhagavad Gita uses the word mind in a very specific sense that the mind is the interface between spirit and matter.
Our current existence is three level. There is the body, there is the mind and there is the soul. So the body is the physical level, the mind is the mental level and the soul is at the spiritual level.
And the spiritual and the physical are connected to the mind. In 15.9 in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says that, So, the soul tries to enjoy the vishaya, the objects of this world. And how does it do it? For it requires the senses.
The five senses I mentioned. The eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue, the skin. But all of these are centred on the mind.
Just like I have the five fingers, just centred on the palm. So like that, the five senses are centred around the mind. So the Bhagavad Gita refers to the mind as the interface between soul and body.
So the soul, now the soul's original energy is consciousness. The soul is conscious and consciousness is the innate energy of the soul. So to get one rough understanding of how the mind functions.
Say somebody is watching a team and say, some cricket match is going on in India, this person is a cricket fan. So the TV screen becomes the medium by which this person's consciousness, person will be situated here in Sacramento in America. So from here, the consciousness goes through the TV screen to something that is happening in India.
And for this transfer of the consciousness from one place to another place. The TV acts as the medium. So the mind we could say is something like a TV.
So the soul is spiritual. The world around it is material. It's physical.
And the link between the soul and the body happens through the mind. The mind is like the central window for the soul. Sometimes say if there is a big medical hospital or some big building complex where they have a central security unit.
And there are multiple, they say there are five gates. And then there is, there are cameras over there and all the cameras are routed to one place. So whoever is coming in, whoever is going out, all that is happening at the doors.
But it can be seen at the central camera. Now, so the central camera that is the mind. And the senses are like the, sorry, central screen, not the camera.
The central screen is like the mind. And the cameras that are there at each door observing what is happening over there, showing what is happening over there, they are like the senses. So through the mind to the senses, we get the channel to the outer world.
Now suppose, if you take this analogy further, suppose instead of one, they have one screen where the screen is divided into five sections. So that, there are five cameras, all of them are displayed on the screen. And then, say it's a touch screen.
I click on one screen and something interesting is happening here. Something, maybe some suspicious character is coming over here. So I click on that and then that camera, that particular window that is there zooms up and fills the whole screen.
And then the person focusses. What is happening over here? So like that, say right now, they are sitting and we are hearing. So, the focus is on the the sound.
But suppose, you know, maybe in the background, suddenly you get the fragrance of gulab jamun. Then, oh gulab jamun. That window just pops up, zooms up completely.
Oh gulab jamun, very nice. I want gulab jamun. When will this class get over? So, so what happens, as soon as the thought comes, that particular sense gets activated.
Or our focus on that sense goes over there. Immediately that window zooms up. And then our consciousness gets consumed by that.
So, that's how our consciousness is very fickle. Now, we all may have had the experience that sometimes on the internet when we are surfing, we go on one page, maybe news is there. We read one news, but usually the, all the websites, they want us to visit more and more.
So, there is one site, one article we are reading, but alongside there are many other links. This link, that link, and we just glance at the link. This is not very interesting.
This is interesting. Based on that, we decide whether to read it or not to read it. Now, till now, as far as I know, there is no such technology.
But suppose there were technology like this, that while we are reading the article, the screen detected what we are reading or where our eyes are. And as soon as our eyes go to a link, immediately that link pops up. And that article opens up or that picture opens up.
Then, you know, we would be completely lost. Just look at one one, that thing opens up. Look something else, again that opens up.
Even now it happens that sometimes we start surfing on the net and we think, well, just read five minutes or two minutes and then one article, second article, third article, fourth article, one picture, second picture, third picture, one movie, one video clip, second video clip, third video clip. This goes on. Two, three hours have gone.
So surfing on the net ends up becoming suffering on the net. We just waste so much time. So internet addiction is an increasing problem in today's world.
So what happens over here is that there are clickable links and as soon as we click, we go over there. So we can imagine the mind as a screen with multiple clickable links and the five prominent clickable links are the five senses and this is the conscious mind. So consciousness is the energy by which we become aware.
So for example, say if a person is sitting in front of a TV or going back to the early example, there is a central security guard who is sitting in front of the main screen and that person's consciousness is observing what is happening over here and consciousness is the energy that goes from the person to the screen and when that person goes to sleep, the mind, the screen is still showing things but nobody is aware of those things. So the consciousness is the energy by which we become aware and the mind is the screen which directs our awareness. It's the screen where the first thing that the soul interacts with the world through the mind.
So the mind is the screen on which the world's picture is displayed and based on what in that picture we focus, our consciousness accordingly gets directed. So the that means consciousness and conscious mind or rather consciousness routes through the mind to the outer world. Now when we talk about the mind, modern psychology often talks about the subconscious mind.
We have the conscious mind and we have the subconscious mind. Now what exactly is a subconscious mind? To give another computer example, say I have a computer screen now there is a certain amount of data certain amount of information that is displayed on the computer screen but in the computer there may be thousands of files out of which just one file and even from that one file one small portion of that file is displayed on the screen but there is there are thousands of files or thousands of books on the computer. So like that what is what is there displayed on the screen of the mind that comprises the conscious mind but along with that there is a lot more that is there in the mind.
Lot of impressions lot of desire lot of memories lot of worries lot of thoughts they are all stored in the mind and that is the subconscious mind. So so that means there is normally we think of conscious and unconscious so in Hindi in Sanskrit there was a chetan and achetan but subconscious is actually our chetan it is it is not exactly unconscious so now when something is at the subconscious level that means it exists but we are not conscious of it just like say we are sitting in this room right now now there might be a AC over here that is on we are not aware of the AC right now maybe the temperature is too high or it is too low then we become aware of it but it is there in the background so like that there is a lot that is there in the subconscious mind which we are not aware of and the subconscious mind also provides windows if you consider the big screen I was talking about in a security complex where there is five five small windows within the screen pointing to the five senses but along with that from the subconscious mind also there are many windows over there so that is why sometimes we just get caught in a train of thoughts don't even think this how did I how did I start thinking about this sometimes you are just sitting peacefully doing some constructive work and suddenly suddenly a memory pops up six months ago that person insulted me I have not done anything to that person I have not done anything to that person if I don't do anything that person will repeat it and then it will become a habit and then I will be always insulted I have to do something right now how can I get back at that person actually that memory was just gone and done no stimulus also right now it might be there but suddenly one moment we might be peacefully doing our work and next moment we find that you know we are breathing heavily and our fists are clenched our teeth are drawn our teeth are tied together and we are angry the mood changes what happens is from the subconscious a certain thought came up and then we clicked on that link we pressed that window when we pressed that window it suddenly filled the whole screen and our thoughts went away in that direction and this way we end up getting distracted so worry is the tax worry is the interest that we pay on loans that we have not yet taken worry is the interest that we pay on loans that we have not yet taken that means there is a particular problem which is there in front of us now that problem is there okay maybe you know the economy is going down what if I lose my job so that fear might be there but what happens the once that thought comes oh I may lose my job and then it's like one window that is there on the screen of the mind and from that one window something pops oh if I lose my job how will I be able to pay my mortgage if I can't pay my mortgage then where will I live oh then I will have to renew my car live in my car but what if I my car is also I couldn't have my car also I will have to sell my car then I will be on the streets oh no I am sitting right now comfortably in an AC room but I am worried what if I am on the streets now actually in this world you can say anything is possible but this is a far fetched possibility the problem has not yet come but worry in that sense it's a loan that we have not even taken till now but we are paying interest what is the interest the interest is the tension that we are taking the palpitation that are happening all the stress that we are embracing although there is no real problem right now so how does this happen all this happens because on the screen of the mind something popped up and then we just we just followed it up one thing second thing third thing fourth thing I just got lost in that so the subconscious mind is the reservoir of not just memories not just desires but also our habitual patterns of thinking our habitual patterns of thinking you know all of us because we you know whatever we do repeatedly that becomes habitual for us it's like if in a if I if I say visit a particular site regularly if for reading news I visit nytimes.com then my browser over a period of time it has a memory so as soon as I type n immediately the autocomplete comes nytimes now I use a text to speech software for reading whatever I write so now the text to speech software also has some autocomplete functions so I write the soul is Sat Chit Anand and the software reads it out as the soul is Sat Chit Anand for the soul for the computer it does not know the word Sat in Sanskrit Sat means it's a short form of Saturday so here what has happened is I have entered the data correctly but the autocorrect is incorrect so I entered correctly but the autocorrect made the correct incorrect and I had to go back and make the what the autocorrect has done I have to recorrect it so just as there are programmes there are in the computer certain things are automatically programmed and the autocorrect example I gave for something which is automatically programmed and the browser example I gave for something which gets programmed by our usage so I type n immediately autocorrect comes n y times so similarly for all of us there are certain habitual patterns of thought so for example you know almost for all people you know as soon as we meet them our mind passes some comment about them now this person lazy somebody else irresponsible somebody else arrogant somebody else very showy so you know our mind as soon as we meet people the mind passes some comments about them now of course that comment comes it's up to us whether we entertain the comment or we neglect the comment but now this is to some extent unavoidable because based on the way people have interacted with us based on what people have heard about us will naturally form some perceptions about them but if we do not examine those perceptions then those perceptions become habitual and say for example now a lot of people in the world are worried about obesity so people don't want to be overweight and that's a valuable concern but sometimes they will find tend to overeat and researchers have found what makes them overeat now it's not that anybody wants to become fat nobody has that maybe people are very thin they have a they think I should gain some weight but nobody thinks I want to become fat so how do they overeat so researchers have found that normally if people take a resolution okay you know I'm going to eat healthy food I'll take salads I'll take if I need a snack I'll take some salads I'll take some fruits I'll take some healthy food I won't take some fatty food so now if they feel hungry and they're aware then they will take some healthy food that is there but the hunger pang comes and they're busy doing things maybe you know whatsapp they're sending some message or reading something or watching some TV and then even without their awareness their hand moves towards the snack and then that hand will automatically move towards some unhealthy snack why did I eat this I didn't want to eat this so what happens over here is that in the subconscious mind there are certain programmes there is a certain definition of enjoyment so for example somebody may have the definition of enjoyment you know food is equal to say hamburger food is equal to pizza food is equal to this food is equal to that so as soon as I feel hungry if I am not aware if I am not conscious of my actions then the subconscious determines my actions if you are conscious you will choose okay should I do this or should I do that but if I am not conscious then the subconscious determines my actions it's like say if I have three four browsers on my computer I have Safari I have Chrome I have Mozilla now one browser gets set as a default browser once it is set as a default browser as soon as I click on any link automatically that browser opens up so like that in our mind there are certain default programmes so as soon as I want some pleasure I think oh I eat this food so that is like our unexamined definition of pleasure and when we have that unexamined definition of pleasure and subconsciously as soon as I feel hungry I will eat that food and thus I may end up eating unhealthy food so when we talk about so I talked about consciousness which is the energy then I talked about subconscious mind subconscious mind we could say it contains the programmes that shape our behaviour when we are not conscious when I'm conscious should I eat this or should I eat this I'll eat this not this you can choose so if the less and less we are aware of things then the more the subconscious takes control of things for example when people are addicted to something somebody's an alcoholic now an alcoholic also has free will but their free will is only should I drink whisky or brandy they don't have the free will whether I should drink or not drink so the more the subconscious our free will never goes away nobody can take away our free will but the more we act in particular ways the scope of our free will becomes restricted the scope of our free will becomes restricted so for a person who is addicted their scope of their free will is only should I choose this brand of alcohol or that brand of alcohol that's all they don't have the free will whether I should they just don't have the capacity should I drink or should I not drink their capacity is not there and this the more we let the subconscious determine our decisions then the more those decisions are taken away from us and thus the more we become controlled the more we become addicted so now addiction is a very strong word but the important point is that when certain behaviours become so strongly ingrained within us that we just can't resist it now somebody something like say some there are two kinds of addictions broadly speaking there are substance addiction and there is behavioural addiction substance addiction is very visible if somebody drinks too much somebody smokes too much somebody takes drugs that's very visible but behavioural addiction means that people become conditioned habituated addicted to behaving in particular ways say one kind of behavioural addiction should be could be device addiction as soon as I have some time look at my device maybe look at Facebook look at this look at that this may not be a very harmful addiction but it is also an addiction if they don't have their device even if I don't have a device what is going to happen to me without my phone I can't live without my phone so just feel I have to look at the update look at this look at that look at that so here this behavioural addiction is it's also it's not we are not going to consume the phone the way somebody consumes alcohol but one is habituated in behaviour so at a far more common level there can be the behavioural addiction to anxiety at one level all of us face uncertainty in life and uncertainty naturally causes anxiety say if I had to catch a flight and if I am caught in a traffic jam and I don't know whether I'll reach the airport in time to catch the flight or not that uncertainty causes anxiety and because we can't always have certainty in our life so that's why anxiety is a natural factor in living whenever there is uncertainty there is always anxiety caused by it but actually this is a natural and unavoidable anxiety at one level if we plan our life better if we are more organised then the uncertainty can become lesser and then anxiety will also become lesser so we can by doing some lifestyle adjustments being more organised we can minimise the anxiety but anxiety itself can't be eliminated because as long as uncertainty is there uncertainty leads to anxiety however the major problem comes not just because of the uncertainty it actually comes because of the imagination of the mind and there's a particular problem with a particular uncertainty the mind goes into a overdrive imagining this imagining that imagining that and once the mind starts imagining then the mind's imagination actually works in two ways one way is that the mind's imagination works in terms of desires if I get this oh it was so enjoyable I just want to eat this I want to watch this I want to go here I want to go there the mind imagines pleasures there's a different subject I'll not go into that right now but the mind it also imagines problems there is one situation but from that situation the mind this can happen oh that happens what will happen to and then when this happens then people often get a panic attack panic attack means they get paralysed this can't do anything so why does this happen because the mind has gone on an uncontrolled imagination spree this imagination this goes one thing second thing third thing fourth thing and then the person finds it is almost impossible to deal with now there is one thing which is preparing for possible problems and that is a part of living so okay if this is a situation and if this goes wrong what can I do for it like you say have plan A and have plan B also this doesn't work do this now the difference between preparing for the future and worrying about the future the difference primarily is in who is in control when I am conscious of what I am doing so that I okay I am I am here and I consciously direct my thoughts okay if this happens then this may happen and I can do this about this if this happens then I can do this about this so if I am in control then I then I evaluate the various possibilities various things that can happen and based on that I prepare myself but when we are worrying we are not in control the mind is in control so what the mind does when we are worrying is the mind gives us a free horror movie show and in that horror movie show we are not the spectator we are the victim so the mind starts this will go wrong that will go wrong that will go wrong that will go wrong oh no everything will go wrong and in worrying about what all we go what all will go wrong we go wrong because I can do certain things right now but when I worry this may go wrong that may go wrong that may go wrong and whatever I could have done at present I can't do it because I am overwhelmed by anxiety the student is studying for an exam what if some difficult question paper comes up I am not able to answer I will get poor grades if I get poor grades people will laugh at me everybody laughs at me oh I am so miserable maybe I will be thrown out of school thrown out of school what will happen oh no I can't tolerate that and the person gets paralysed so now in the terms of the Bhagavad Gita there are three modes of material nature there is sattva guna karjoguna and tamoguna mode of goodness mode of passion and mode of ignorance so when you talk about the subconscious mind subconscious mind contains certain programmes so subconscious mind contains many programmes which programme will get activated from the many programmes that are there that is determined by the mode that we cultivate so if I cultivate the mode of goodness then I will be able to calmly evaluate see if we look at our own life there are sometimes when we are calm and our thoughts go clearly and there are other times when we are hyperactive I have to do this I have to do that and there are other times when we are the three modes one way to understand the three modes is some people make things happen some people watch things happen and some people wonder what happened so the people who make things happen they are actually in goodness they observe okay this needs to be done and they will do it or they will get others to do it in passion people want to do a lot of things and they are also running around doing things but when we are in passion running around like a fan running around it keeps running but gets nowhere like that I do this I do this I do this we run around in passion but because we are so passionate so that we don't do things attentively we don't do things carefully so I do one thing and I have to complete this and go to the next thing and go to the next thing and then I say I didn't do that properly I have to go back and fix it again I go back and do that and oh but I left this incomplete I go back the same things we sometimes have to do two three times because we did not do it properly the first time that's why we do one thing and then something goes wrong and then something goes wrong something goes wrong and here some people watch things happen so much chain reaction of things happen then we get into trouble by that and people in mode they just don't know what is happening some wonder what happened what's going on over here so now when we practise bhakti what are we trying to do actually we are ultimately going towards transcendence there is a tamoguna rajoguna sattvaguna and then there is transcendence the spiritual level of existence we're trying to go towards transcendence but while going towards transcendence in the intermediate stage in the stage of goodness and the more we come to the level of goodness the more we can calmly evaluate what is happening inside us and what is happening outside us you know if say we are sitting here and suddenly a child comes and starts running here running there running there what is this child doing somebody should control this child either we'll go and control that child or we expect the parents to control that child so you know we observe what is happening outside us and then if something is disorderly we correct it but we often don't observe in a similar way what is happening inside us because we usually when we have this what is outside me and what is inside me the basis on which we differentiate this is our body whatever is outside my body I think that is external and whatever is inside my body I think that is internal but this is from the reference point of misconception I am thinking I am my body I am thinking I am my body I think okay this is external this is internal but if I understand I am the soul from the soul's perspective even the mind is external the body is external but the mind is also external so whatever is happening here in this room that is outside me but whatever is happening on in the mind that is also outside me as a soul so just like if a child starts running around it's not that we let the child run around we discipline the child get the child to calm down so like that sometimes a thought starts running around in the mind and the thought starts running around going here going there sometimes what happens is when the thought starts running around we also start running around with it no we start running around so the more we come to the mode of goodness and further towards transcendence the more we understand the difference between us and our mind the first step in spirituality is to understand that I am not the body but more important much much more important is to understand that I am not the mind that my thoughts my desires my feelings they are not necessarily mine that means when I talk about that the thoughts the desire the feelings that come inside me they are not always my thoughts desires feelings just like sometimes we are maybe reading something on a computer reading some article and sometimes a window pops up now say the mother may have told the child study the child is actually studying but then while the child is studying some sports window has popped up so like that in our mind sometimes some things pop up and when those things pop up it's not necessarily see every desire inside us is not necessarily our desire unfortunately the desire comes inside us we take ownership of that desire we think this is my desire and we act on that desire but if you can distance ourselves no this is not my desire just popped up over here I don't have to pay attention to it and this is where conscience comes in conscience in Sanskrit is called as viveka buddhi viveka buddhi means that it is our capacity to discern between right and wrong and the stronger our conscience is the stronger is our the faster is our correct reaction when something wrong happens so for example if I'm sitting here and suddenly I feel a prick then immediately I'll get up or I'll move aside this is the physical reflex action I don't even think about it as soon as I feel a prick I move aside or if I'm sitting here if I touch my computer the computer becomes hot immediately my hand moves away this is the physical reflex action for self defence for protection for protecting my body from harm like that our conscience is our inner self-defence inner reflex action so there is there are certain situations in which we deliberate should I do this or should I not do this maybe I should do this no no it's not good I'll not do it so we deliberate and decide no I won't do this or I will do this sometimes when temptations come before us then we have to battle I'll do this no I won't do this I'll do this I won't do this but there are certain things which we don't even consider suppose somebody offers a gulab jamun we think should I eat it or should I not eat it but if somebody offered us meat what would we consider it if we are serious spiritual practitioners why because there our conscience is so strong over there that that is not an option only for us right now so the stronger our conscience the conscience acts like a reflex action for making the right choices so another way to understand it is that the conscience is like the dog that barks when some wrong doing tempts us when some temptation comes a wrong activity tempts us a thief is coming into my house there's a dog barks and oh somebody's come over here let me watch who is coming and if there's a thief then I can drive that person out or I can close the door I can protect myself so conscience is a dog that barks when the thief of sin comes to steal our integrity thief of sin comes to steal my integrity conscience is a dog that barks and when we study scripture when we chant the holy names it is our conscience that becomes stronger so actually conscience and intelligence are two different things conscience is like a reflex action intelligence is more thoughtful deliberation should I do this or should I not do this oh maybe I should maybe I should no maybe I'll not do it so the intelligence involves some deliberation whereas conscience is like a reflex action I just know I'm not going to do this it's out of question so now what determines our conscience our conscience is determined by our upbringing our culture our association and so in different social circles some things are acceptable some things are just not acceptable it's not that everything that we consider right or wrong as per our consciousness is necessarily right or wrong conscience can also have a social component Srila Prabhupada talks about this that when there is when people are brought up in a particular culture then they may have a certain conception of what is right and what is wrong so if a person is brought up in a culture where meat eating is very common as childhood they have been told if you don't eat meat you will not have enough proteins then if they have to give up meat at that time they were thinking if I give up meat I will not get proteins so here what has happened is that inner programming is in a wrong way we can get abundant proteins from other sources also but something has become very deeply ingrained so the subconscious mind contains certain programming when the programming directs us towards right and away from wrong that is what we call as conscious the process of bhakti involves firstly developing our intelligence and secondly activating our conscience and when the intelligence and conscience are activated then we can move steadily on the right path so in the ramayana when Kaikeyi is poisoned by Mantara Kaikeyi actually loves Ram loves Ram as much as she loves Bharat and Ram loves Kaikeyi as much as he loves his own mother Paushalya so when Mantara she proposes she tells her you know your son your son has been discriminated against your son you know your competitor's son Kaushalya has been Ram has been made the king and this way what is going to happen is if Ram becomes the king he will see Bharat as a threat he sees Bharat as a threat then he may imprison Bharat or he may exile Bharat or he may execute Bharat also and you will be left powerless you have seen the ruin of your son how can you tolerate that so Mantara basically showed Kaikeyi a horror movie a horror movie this will happen that will happen that will happen that will happen like a all night horror movie it was and throughout the night she was talking and the same Kaikeyi who at the start of the night was actually very gentle very kind very wise by the end of the night she became harsh she became foolish she became cruel completely transformed and she went and told her husband exile Ram to the forest what has Ram ever done to you what has Ram ever done to you how has he ever offended you why do you want to do such a thing Bharat was so shocked he said if you want Bharat to become the king let him become the king but don't exile Ram what is his fault she just completely became heartless so Mantara the Mantara here actually represents the mind the Mahabharata of course is the Ramayana and Mahabharata they are of course historical narrations but along with that they also signify things so Mantara is the mind and Kaikeyi is the soul and the heart is like Ayodhya so what happens is Lord Ram Lord Krishna is there in the heart but when the soul listens to the mind then the soul exiles the Lord from the heart what a soul does is I don't want this Bhakti I don't want this Krishna I don't want all this business and then like that when we exile Krishna from the heart then what happens is basically we become completely controlled by the mind mind is there and now nobody is there to counter the mind's story to the extent that we can hear the mind's story to the extent we hear the mind's story to the extent we come in under its control but if we turn away from the mind turn towards Krishna and hear Krishna then we can actually counter the mind's story and when we are practising Bhakti at that time sometimes it may appear the mind is getting distracted I'm trying to study I'm trying to chant I'm trying to focus but the mind is going here mind is going there mind is going there what is the point of it all you know I chant but still the mind goes here mind goes there what is the point of it all the point of it all is that actually we are developing our inner muscles our intelligence and our conscience these two are like our inner muscles and each time the mind goes off somewhere and we bring it back each time we go back it goes out and bring it back so what is happening it is like we are lifting a weight now it's not that one time I lift a weight suddenly my muscles are going to go but if everyday I keep lifting weights lifting weights what is happening my muscles are going so like that when the mind goes off track and we bring it back on track our inner muscles are growing and the more our inner muscles grow the more the internal wrong programming that is there that gets at least we resist it and then later on it is reformed and Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita in 6.27 and 28 Krishna says that the mind becomes peaceful experience in the supreme happiness how does all this experience the mode of passion becomes calm shanta one understand one spiritual nature being pure and then further it says even practises yoga like this one becomes pure contact with the Brahman contact with spiritual reality what does it do one experiences the ultimate happiness so right now we chant the Krishna but actually we don't contact Krishna because the mind distracts us mind goes here mind goes there but by repeated trying to chant the holy name repeatedly trying to practise bhakti gradually the mind is getting purified and as the mind gets purified it becomes pacified it is the contamination which agitate the mind the contamination go down the mind becomes peaceful the peaceful mind it focusses on Krishna when it focusses on Krishna it becomes joyful so although we may not experience joy right now in the practise of bhakti if you keep practising it the joyfulness will become more and more the peacefulness because the mind doesn't get agitated by things and then the peacefulness gives rise to joyfulness so when the mind certain programmes start getting activated say this problem has come up and immediately the mind's imagination programme worry programme gets activated what about this this this so at that time as soon as it gets activated we turn towards Krishna so it is said don't tell God how big your problems are tell your problems how big God is yes I have big problems so sometimes when we chant Hare Krishna also we pray to Krishna but at that time we are not actually thinking about Krishna thinking about this problem so even while being Krishna conscious we are not Krishna conscious we are problem conscious then we don't let Krishna consciousness benefit as much but when we go to Krishna also don't worry so much about the problem try to direct the thoughts towards Krishna then we understand that Krishna is so big when our consciousness connects with Krishna then we experience peace and then we start seeing this problem it seems so big ok it may become that big but right now the problem is here when the problem is here what all can I do to deal with it when it is here if it becomes this big I will deal with it when it becomes that big but so the mind's imagination makes the problem much bigger when we focus on Krishna then the mind doesn't get the energy of its imagination and then when it is deflated then we can see the problem for what it really is and so real problems are manageable imagined problems are unmanageable so ok this much it's like say if I am travelling and I have 10 kg weight to carry I can carry it but if I want that 10 kg I put 40 kg more 50 kg weight I can't carry it so our real problems are like 10 kg but the imagination of the mind adds 40 kg on top of it and I feel this problem is unmanageable how can I deal with it so when we practise bhakti it brings us in contact with Krishna it increases our mode of goodness when our sattva guna increases then we can see things as they really are this is the problem and all this is the imagination ok I won't worry about this this is the problem what can I do about it and thus don't tell God how big the problems are because basically we are telling this is a 50 kg problem it's not a 50 kg weight don't tell God how big the problems are tell the problems how big God is that means focus on remembering Krishna focus on invoking the presence of Krishna then what will happen you say Krishna is there in this problem actually it's not that big it's only this much I'll deal with it so by that practise of bhakti it's not when we say practise bhakti it's not just chant Hare Krishna worship the deities and read scripture all that is essential but all that needs to transform our inner mental life if that is not happening then we are not really tapping the power of bhakti so the kind of analysis that I did this helps us to understand how the process of bhakti can help us practically otherwise you know we have a habit of worrying and we have a habit of chanting and the two don't change anything I keep chanting also and while chanting also I'm worrying so I'm chanting Krishna's name but I'm watching the mind's horror movie and sometimes after chanting I feel more worried than what I was feeling before chanting because when I'm chanting I'm not connecting with Krishna while I'm chanting the lips is chanting but the mind is showing the horror movie and I'm watching the horror movie this will go wrong that will go wrong that will go wrong that will go wrong and then we become more worried so actually if we understand how the process of bhakti benefits us how the process of bhakti transforms our mind then we can see how the mind is reacting and how we are responding to it and then we can tap the power of bhakti to transform the mind so I'll summarise I talked about consciousness the subconscious mind and consciousness these are three topics and all of them how we can channel them for benefiting ourselves so the mind is the link between the body and the soul it's like a TV screen from which a person in America may see a match in India or a security head of a building can see on one screen what is happening at the various gates entry points in that building so like the five sensors are like the entry points and the mind is a screen on which the info from the various sensors is being displayed on the main monitor and this is a monitor which has multiple windows whichever we focus on that zooms out whichever sense we focus on that actually consumes the attention and here I brought in the point of the subconscious that it is not that the mind that on the screen of the mind only what is shown on the sensors is seen actually there are many other things which are shown which come from the subconscious so subconscious mind is like the conscious mind or rather the conscious mind is like the screen of the computer on which we see a certain section of the book subconscious mind is like the hard disc of the computer where thousands of books will be stored and from the subconscious mind certain things pop up the subconscious mind shapes our behaviour when we are not conscious of our behaviour that means if I am not conscious of what I am eating my subconscious mind will determine me come on eat this or eat that so whatever we have habituated ourselves to that gets incorporated in the subconscious mind like a programme like a default programme and that happens automatically just like a computer may autocomplete if I enter the website name in the browser so like that the mind the subconscious mind autocompletes oh I am hungry so I type n and the computer completes n y times dot com so like that hungry the subconscious mind autocompletes you know pizza hamburger whatever my favourite food now that may not be healthy food but that is the subconscious mind acting and completing autocompleting the thought that just is a remote stage in a small nascent stage in this conscious mind and when we start practising bhakti we rise from the mode of goodness through passion through sorry mode of ignorance through passion to goodness and towards transcendence so when one one component of the subconscious mind which is very common is is worrying we discuss addictions every time we do a particular activity when the subconscious mind takes control the scope our free will gets more and more reduced so an alcoholic has practically a choice only whether to drink this or that not whether to drink or not and whereas substance abuse or substance addiction is very easily visible but behavioural addiction is not so easily visible so worry is a behavioural device addiction is one kind of addiction is behavioural addiction similarly there can be worry which is also behavioural addiction so then we are addicted to worrying that means we are in the mode of the mode of ignorance in the mode of ignorance the mind is like a free horror movie where we are the victims not the spectators now this is very different from preparing for the future when we are in the mode of goodness we analyse consciously we are in control and we direct the screen of our mind okay this can happen then what can I do if this happens I can do this if this happens I can do this so that thinking about the future in the mode of goodness makes us feel more prepared to deal with what the future will bring but letting the mind wander to the future in the mode of ignorance that makes us feel more and more powerless this may go wrong this may go wrong this may go wrong this may go wrong in worrying about what all may go wrong we go wrong right now in the present also and the way to deal with all this is that we need our conscience and our intelligence conscience is like our inner reflex action which guards us from wrong things just like a physical reflex action if my hand touches something hot my hand moves away so like that based on our conscience there are certain thoughts if they pop in certain desires no I can't do this immediately we don't even have to deliberate this is right or wrong no this is just out of question now sometimes our conscience can be socially conditioned and it may not always tell us what is the right thing but when we guide you to the scripture then the conscience becomes like our inner instinctive protector but till the conscience is activated we also need our intelligence so by studying scripture and practising bhakti both our conscience and intelligence get activated they are like our inner muscles and the point is not that by chanting Hare Krishna our mind will automatically become controlled but every day that we chant Hare Krishna it's like we are building our inner muscles and our capacity to resist the mind our capacity to reform the mind increases and Krishna describes that the more we practise yoga then the mind becomes peaceful and joyful that is the distractions are there but we learn to resist the distractions and then we connect with Krishna then we become not just peaceful but we also become joyful so when we face problems in life rather than letting our bhakti be dominated by problem consciousness don't let don't tell god how big the problems are because the mind is telling the problem is this big this big this big mind is imagining how big the problem is and then we feel overpowered by it we feel dwarfed by it but rather tell the problem how big Krishna is which means when we are hearing about Krishna when we are chanting Krishna just focus on Krishna and when we do that when we become Krishna conscious we become internally peaceful our consciousness becomes clear then we can separate the imagined problem from the real problem the real problem is manageable the imagined problem is unmanageable when we separate the two then our life becomes more manageable for us and then we can move steadily onwards so bhakti is not just about doing some rituals but bhakti is about making sure that we by the practises transform the mind and if the mind is not getting transformed that means we have to introspect and refocus in our devotional practises by which the mind is negative programming whatever is in the subconscious mind that will be transformed thank you very much are there any questions or comments how to differentiate between the mind and the soul's desires or thoughts the mind offers us various options it is a soul which chooses that means say I go on my computer and I want to read a particular I want to know a particular news update so I have gone there with a particular intention say I want to find out have India and Pakistan started a war now I want to read that so that is now one particular news I want to read I think okay you know maybe there is some event that has happened but there is no war over there but then what happens is whenever this kind of the media feasts on the frenzy of the people so then there is one article okay this incident happened at the border but then along with that the 10 articles maybe this is going to happen maybe this means this maybe this means this then I go and then I get caught in it so if we so to read one article was my intention but while reading that article there are dozen other propositions that came up on that screen I chose that and then I got lost so if we are aware of our intentions okay this is what I want to do this is what I want to do this is what I want to do then usually if something is carefully thought out and planned we can say that is something which is coming from our core self but something just pops up in the mind I do this pops up inside I do this I do that I do that so usually we can generally assume that something which is instinctive short term impulsive that pops up that comes from the mind and something which is planned something which is carefully thought out that is something which is what is coming from the soul this is not always true because sometimes the mind can also use good ideas sometimes some people say I got a hunch I got a gut feeling and it turned out to be right so over a period of time as we observe ourselves we also learn you know in these situations when I do something usually this turns out to be wrong but in this situation sometimes I get good ideas also so basically whenever some idea suddenly pops up in the mind you know if we immediately act on it we tend to be impulsive but if you wait for some time we evaluate it and then we decide what to do so that way we can avoid avoid succumbing to the mind so we don't have to be too paranoid every time some thought comes in this is the mind's voice this is Krishna's voice or is this my desire or is this the mind's desire broadly speaking we need to have a plan for our life okay this is what I'm going to do this is what I'm going to do this is what I'm going to do and this is our service this is our schedule and we do things accordingly during that time certain things come up we decide okay I'm not going to I don't know what all this is let me suspend it right now then later on when we are calmer we can evaluate it because otherwise if we start living if we shouldn't live too much in our head also because if this thought does it come from the soul does it come from the mind you get too caught in the head you know we just may not be doing anything practical so most important thing is that we have practical planned constructive engagements in our life and during that course certain thoughts come up then we put them aside put them like in a parking lot put them on the pause button and eventually evaluate them okay this is a good idea maybe I can do this this is not a very sound idea evaluate it afterwards and as we keep doing this we ourselves learn what I should be doing which ideas I should be listening to which thoughts I should be listening to which thoughts I better postpone which thoughts I should just reject this is all we learn by experience but first of all there has to be there has to be a planned schedule see planning may not always work sorry plans may not always work but planning gives us a direction it's what I should be doing so it's like if I am going to come from the airport here we have plan this is the road I am going to take sometime that road may be crowded may be there is an accident on the road then I have to re-route and come from some other road but if I don't have a plan only where I am going to go I come out of the airport should I go here should I go there should I go there then I will just be wasting my time so like that we need to have a plan in our life now the plan doesn't work but at least the fact that we made a plan gives us a direction if I can't go this way I can go this way then I can go this way and the if our life is not planned then the mind does all the planning for us and the mind makes a mess of our life so we can't micro control our life but broadly speaking use our intelligence and plan how to how we are going to engage ourselves and within that if certain thoughts come up we pause them then later on we can evaluate and decide whether I should be doing this or should not be doing this does it answer your question thank you any other question any other questions except that especially the point you mentioned about looking at the mind as external to the body I have a couple of questions I was primarily focused on how to focus your mind on chanting and I was reading and there was one nice piece of information I found which I could relate myself to what it said was that as you chant you realise it gets harder and harder to control the mind and it is an experienced chanter and it says I should plead to Krishna rather than control the mind and I didn't find a law predicting it that seems much more understandable because as I try to control the mind while I'm chanting it seems harder and harder and that approach where you come to a point where you just realise you no longer can chant with no mind on your own and try to plead Krishna every time you chant asking for himself so is it that in chanting you should be trying to control the mind or should you be trying to pray to Krishna to help us control the mind because we realise that I can't control the mind yes see before we can pray to Krishna that please help me control the mind we should be convinced that the mind needs to be controlled the mind is so cunning that it actually makes us believe that it is going to take us on a journey right so if we are not philosophically alert if you're not introspective we don't realise the need for mind controls for controlling the mind and that's why our effort is also important if anything I just call out to Krishna and I'm not trying to control the mind just try to call out to Krishna but we may not even have the conviction to call out to Krishna it's only when we our intelligence is aware of how dangerous the mind can be then we feel the need to call out so yes ultimately it is not our effort that that converts the mind I usually differentiate between controlling the mind and converting the mind controlling the mind means the mind wants to go off this this controlling the mind means mind wants to go off in this direction and I bring it under control but converting the mind means the mind doesn't go off in that direction itself so converting the mind will be done by Krishna but during that process controlling the mind is something which I need to do myself. So to give an example for this, consider that there's a mother and there's a child.
And the child is sick and the mother has to give some medicine to the child. And say we have the standard example of jaundice. And when a person is jaundiced, that person can't taste sugarcane juice also as sweet.
They think sugarcane juice is bitter. So the mother is trying to give sugarcane juice to a jaundiced child. So now the child doesn't taste the sugarcane juice as sweet.
Child doesn't want to take the sugarcane juice. Now what does the mother have to do? Mother may have to hold the child in the mouth and make sure that the child takes the medicine. So like that, our intelligence is what is required.
So our intelligence is like the mother, mind is like the child. The intelligence has to to some extent endeavour and focus and control the mind so that it takes the medicine. The medicine is the holy name, the medicine is remembrance of Krishna, the medicine is service to Krishna.
Now when we do that, as the medicinal sugarcane juice is taken more and more, internally a healing happens. As the healing happens, the natural capacity to taste the sweetness of the sugarcane juice, which was covered over by jaundice, that gets removed. So controlling the child means that making sure the child takes the medicine.
But curing the child means the child regains the taste for the sugarcane juice. So the mother cannot herself cure the child. It's the medicine and it has the effect that it will cure the child.
But what a mother can do is, you can control the child so the child takes the medicine. So like that for us, the intelligence has to control the mind so that the mind focusses on Krishna. And this focus on Krishna, then there is transformation of the heart.
When the transformation of the heart is there, natural attraction to Krishna is there. And even before natural attraction to Krishna, there is a dependence on Krishna. There is a need for Krishna.
None of these are felt if we are too much under the sway of the mind. So there are certain moments in our sadhana practise when we realise that, oh, the mind is so powerful, I am so helpless. I just need Krishna.
And those times we can fervently call out to Krishna. But those times are not regular. We can't imagine that they will suddenly become regular.
Yes, we definitely want to call out wholeheartedly to Krishna. But what if I can't feel like, I don't feel like calling out to Krishna. What do I do with that? I can't suddenly create that feeling that I have to call out to Krishna.
So at that time, I need my buddhi. And Jiva Goswami explains in the Sandarbha's that that actually for the pure devotees, it is their priti, it is their affection for Krishna that keeps them close to Krishna. But for the sadhakas, it is their buddhi that keeps them at the spiritual level.
It is their buddhi which keeps us close to Krishna. So now that's why our intelligence is important. So intelligence does three things.
Intelligence reminds us of the need for mind control. Intelligence forces us to focus on the process by which the mind will be controlled. And the intelligence ultimately enables us to connect with Krishna by which our mind will become converted.
So controlling the mind, adopting the process to control the mind and connecting so that the mind gets converted. The conversion of the mind from an enemy to a friend, that will happen by Krishna's mercy. But for that to happen, I have to connect with Krishna.
For that, I have to recognise that I need to connect with Krishna. For that, I have to understand that the way to change the mind is by connecting with Krishna. For all that, I need intelligence.
And that's why conscriptural study, conscious scriptural study, conscious intellectual deliberation, they are valuable. I would say invaluable in the process of bhakti. If we can call out to Krishna, that's wonderful.
But how often can we honestly call out to Krishna? So when we can't call out, that doesn't mean that we let our mind, we stop chanting or we let our mind go here and there. At that time, we use our buddhi. Does that answer your question? Thank you.
Yes, sir. Yeah. Yeah, please.
No. Okay. When we use our conscious and intelligence, do we develop our inner muscles, I said.
Okay. So isn't that when we develop our conscience and our intelligence, do we develop bhakti? Yes, ultimately. But primarily, our conscience and intelligence enable us to do the things by which bhakti will develop.
So it's not that conscience and intelligence automatically develop bhakti. We could say conscience and intelligence are like, are like road signs. Go in this direction, don't go in this direction.
Now, I have to travel along the road signs to reach my destination. So by my conscience and by my intelligence, I can make the right choices. And by making the right choices, I will develop bhakti.
So the things which help me to develop bhakti, I'll engage in those activities. The things which damage my bhakti, I will avoid those activities. And thus, so the difference between conscience and intelligence, broadly speaking, is that conscience is more immediate, instinctive.
It's a reflex action. It's a reflex internal action is conscious. No, I can't do this.
Or I should do this. Intelligence means it's more deliberated choice. So, but both help us to choose.
And by choosing the activities that that develop bhakti, we move closer to Krishna. Does that answer your question? Thank you. Thank you.
Nice talk. Yes, okay. It seems that nowadays, we're surrounded by all kinds of temptation, particularly young people.
They are totally unable to overcome their mental addictions. And we found also in Islam, for example, that there has been in our history, sadly, that many young children have been molested. And this is obviously due to the fact that people have overriding feelings in their mind, they have to do this thing.
They have to molest, they have to do, you know, they have to ruin other people's lives. How do we get how do we actually, how do we minister to those people who have these horrible predilections? And how can we get rid of child molestation, for example? What is the cure, from the Vedic point of view? Okay. So, in our mind, there has been tragic child abuse.
And these people who do these things, they're also conditioned very strongly for doing these things. So what is the cure for that? And the cure is available for those who want to be cured. There are certain wrongs, which can often be so grievous, that it requires not just a cure, it also requires a correction, it requires a punishment.
So, that means that, say, if I have greed, and because of my greed, instead of working 8 hours or 10 hours, I work 14 hours. And my whole life gets disrupted by that. That is greed.
But that is greed, which is working with a legal framework. But if because of my greed, I start robbing, robbing places, I start robbing a bank, I start robbing other, robbing other people, that is again greed. But this greed has gone to such a level that at that time, purification alone is not enough.
Purification is required, but some punishment also is required. So now, similarly, if somebody has got uncontrolled tendencies, say uncontrolled sexual craving or whatever, that they are, they are going and molesting others, then it's not just a matter of purification. There some serious correction is required, some disciplinary action is required, some punishment is required.
Now, there is, you know, the purification is the ultimate solution. But it is not always the immediate solution or even the intermediate solution. You know, if a thief comes and robs in a somebody, if he comes and robs someone, and then the king comes, the king, what will the king, he has to punish the thief.
Okay, there should be in the present some means for reformation also. But punishment also is required. You know, if we waive away the punishment and just presume that purification solves all the problems, then whether that person is actually going to practise the process of purification seriously enough, whether the person is actually going to be transformed by the gravity of the suffering that someone has gone through, that is sometimes minimised and trivialised.
If we assume that all that the wrongdoer requires is purification, purification is what they definitely require. But certain actions are so grievous that along with that some disciplinary action in terms of punishment may also be required. And unfortunately, when people become this kind of conditioned to doing this kind of things, say, molesting others, then often they also become manipulative by which they can keep doing the things without others coming to know about it.
So, then externally they will seem to be following the process of purification, but internally they are just looking for opportunities to repeat what they have done in the past. So, that means, you know, if somebody has done something wrong, then at one level there is forgiveness which is required, but another level justice is also required. There is a balance between justice and forgiveness.
Justice means some wrong has been done, punishment has to be given. Forgiveness means, okay, the wrong can be forgiven, no punishment is given. So, sometimes some crimes, some wrongdoings are such that actually they call not just for forgiveness, they call also for justice.
So, without firm action against those who have done this kind of molestation, it becomes a licence for other people to also do such things. I will also be forgiven. I will also be, you know, things will go on.
It becomes like that. So, first of all, even the anarthas, this lust, anger, greed and whatever they are, there are limits which are forgivable and there are certain limits which when they are exceeded, then the actions are penalizable. It is not just, so I am not minimising the importance of purification.
I am just underscoring that purification is the ultimate solution. It is not always the immediate solution. So, immediate solution, somebody has a track record of doing something wrong, then they have to be, they have to be not given access to any situation where they have power or their position by which they repeat such things.
And that is the only way we can earn the trust of those who have been victimised. Otherwise, if, you know, people feel that, oh, in the name of forgiveness, all that I went through, you are not taking it seriously. I went through something horrible and it has to be taken seriously.
So, now after that, if the person is earnest, the person has done wrong, if they are also, they are earnest in wanting to change themselves, then they can be given certain facilities, certain services, where they themselves do not have the opportunity or the temptation for relapse. And then they work at purifying themselves. So, what that service might be, what the situation might be, that will have to be determined according to time, place, circumstance, according to individual nature.
But in these kind of conditionings, they can also be purified by the practise of bhakti. But the person has to be diligent in wanting to practise bhakti. So, if bhakti is just a front for getting the opportunity to do what one wants to do, then the process of bhakti is not going to purify them because they are not really practising bhakti.
But if somebody really wants to practise bhakti and purify oneself, then the process is so potent that any and every conditioning can be overcome. And even this kind of tendency also can be overcome, no doubt about it. Does this answer your question? No, thank you very much.
Very difficult question. Thank you. So, if we see some people who have done something wrong and still they seem to have had no consequences and they are just going along unpunished, then what can we do about it? See, in our life, we all have to choose our battles.
If a soldier is fighting, now the same soldier cannot fight with 10 soldiers at the same time. That's why somebody said, I'll fight with this soldier. After I finish fighting with the soldier, then I can fight with that soldier.
Then I can fight with that soldier. So, we all have to choose our battles. So, when we choose our battles, we choose that area on which we have some chance of winning, some chance of some controlling.
So, just as there are many things wrong in the material world, we can't go about setting all them right. Now, what we feel in one small area where we feel inspired, we may do something like that. So, like that, sometimes even within the Krishna consciousness movement, there may be some things or many things that may be wrong.
We have to see what is in my control. And if we find something seriously wrong, then we can report to the necessary authorities and see if things can be corrected that way. But if that doesn't happen, now we have to be clear, what have I come to the Krishna consciousness movement for? Now, I have come to the Krishna consciousness movement to practise Krishna consciousness.
I have come here to practise bhakti. So, while I am practising bhakti, if I can help others, if I can set things right for others, that's good. But now, objectively speaking, I can say confidently that I can practise bhakti much better in the Krishna consciousness movement than outside it.
So, now, whether everyone in the Krishna consciousness movement is practising bhakti or not, I don't know. There may be people who may come with some ulterior motives and they may be flourishing also. So, I can't, I don't have the power to set everything right in the moment.
But I have come here to purify myself. I have come here to elevate myself. Does the Krishna consciousness movement offer me facility for doing that? Yes, it offers me facility.
So, let me take that facility. And if Krishna wants, if I am sincere in the service that I am doing right now, then Krishna will see that and Krishna will reciprocate by giving me more facility for service, more position or power for doing service. And then I can set bigger things right.
So, if we look for negativities, sometimes negativities are just visible directly to us also, but if we focus on them, then that is what we will see. And in that sense, Krishna is like a Kalpataru. If we come to Krishna for getting bhakti, he will give us bhakti.
But if we come to Krishna for seeing negativity, we will see negativity. If we come to Krishna for seeing controversy, we will see controversy. If we come to Krishna for seeing, you know, offences to others, we will see offences to others.
So, within the Krishna, so it's not just that we come to the Krishna consciousness movement, that is enough. It's we come to the Krishna consciousness movement for practising Krishna consciousness. Our purpose has to be clear enough.
And if we keep doing, if we keep that purpose clear, then we will find that there are wonderful facilities for practising Krishna consciousness. So, I was just a few days ago with Ravindra Swarup Prabhu, senior Prabhupada disciple, and he was telling me that, you know, ISKCON is far worse than what we can imagine, and ISKCON is far better than what we can imagine. It is for us to decide what part of it we want to focus on.
See, ultimately, this is Kali Yuga, and because it's Kali Yuga, people are contaminated, and some contaminated people may also come in the Krishna consciousness movement. So, there are things going wrong here, but there are also things going right. And if we practise bhakti, we can see that things become right in our life also by the practise of bhakti.
So, we focus on practising bhakti. It's one simple thing. It's really the very fact that we went to Vishwananda and asked him about the Institute of Krishna.
Yes. He said, if I announce to him, he should come. Yes, thank you.
Yes, ma'am, we have last question. Please be seated, ma'am. Prabhupada, you said, when you asked the Krishna and the Swarup Prabhupada, they were just there.
Yes, ma'am. Thank you so much for this talk. My name is David Darcy, and I just want to know why they are not present.
I am a refugee working in 1992. I came from a really dysfunctional, victimising family system. At that second on the course where I realised, from watching the people around me, that those people who did not own their own stuff, that their best intentions were sabotaged over and over and over their whole lives, that if you are not presumably conscious and all, you cannot be holy.
It is impossible. It is not quite so simple as just going to mass faithfully every Sunday or just chanting 16 rounds a day. We have to own who we are.
And we cannot lie to ourselves about it. And I have to say that over the years, I have found, it makes me quite sad, a lot of the distance by many devotees in the Krishna consciousness movement to the kind of merciful, instructive, clear, educated promise that you have given us, it seems that there is some resistance to it. And I have seen it over and over, and the very people who resist the most are the people who made it the most desperately.
Everything you have said tonight is right to the point. It goes deeply into what is absolutely necessary if we are to perform our lives. If we do not own our issues, if we do not heal our wounds, then chanting Maha Mantra and being here is insufficient.
We will cause hurt and catastrophe and confusion wherever we go, and this is my thought for every meeting. And so what you have said tonight is absolutely insightful. And those who know me here know that this is something that I never qualified to teach a class, but when I do teach a class, I always come back to it very soon.
The way out is through. You cannot use spiritual life as an ego compensation for one's flaws. They have to be owned, they have to be looked at, they have to be healed.
And so I just want to thank you. I just want to thank you for interacting. And this might be just a prayer that everyone who goes, whenever you are ready to give this kind of talk, that somehow by Christian community, hearts will be open and minds will be open.
Marriages will be healed. People will take their lives seriously and get their lives straight in Christian consciousness and not use Christian consciousness as a sort of toy. You do not have to do the hard work of pretending of shame, scum, compassion, and conscience to be healed.
So thank you so very much. Thank you so very much. And I have another question.
What goes wrong? What happens when, we're normal enough, the average person is normal enough in control of their own mind, but what happens when someone else controls someone else's mind? I see it a lot. The mother-in-law. There's a typical mother-in-law, or there's a father-in-law, or there's a mother, or there's a sister.
What happens when one person has undue influence in the life of another human being to the point where they almost control their mind? What goes wrong there and how can it be? What happens there? I've never quite understood it. So what happens or what goes wrong when one person gets undue control over another person's mind? See, all of us have been given free will by Krishna. And when we talk about free will, there is scope of the free will.
So scope of the free will means, say, if I or you speak something, we may influence a small number of people. But if, say, the president of America says something, that person can influence many more people. So the Bhagavad Gita refers to this as Kshetra.
Kshetra is the area of influence. So if an ant moves on the ground, the ant doesn't affect many people. But if an elephant moves, the elephant can crush so many ants.
So the elephant has a far bigger Kshetra, area of influence, we could say, than the ant. So now, by nature's arrangement, now this, why do different people have different Kshetra, different areas of influence? That is by their past karma. So by the past karma, the elephant has a giant body.
By the past karma, the ant has a small body. By the past karma, somebody is an ordinary citizen. By the past karma, somebody is the head of state.
So now when people get certain Kshetra, certain area of influence by their karma, then along with that comes the responsibility. Along with that is the Dharma. Dharma is the duty of how they, they have been given the position to influence others, but how they influence others, that is up to them.
So within us, there is always the temptation to make others, to control others, to make others puppets in our plans. That is just a normal human tendency. So now on one side, somebody has the power to control others by their past karma.
By power, I don't just mean political power. It can also be verbal power. Some people, you can just speak in such a way that at the end of it, we must become ready to do whatever they are wanting us to do.
So the power can be in various ways. So when the human ego is there on one side, which wants to control others, on the other side, there is a power which one has got in some way or the other. When these two come together, that can become a toxic combination.
And the people who are thus controlled, say for example, Hitler, he had by his past karma, whatever it was, he had the verbal power. From that verbal power, he got political power. And he practically brainwashed the whole country.
And he ended up killing millions of Jews, causing the Holocaust, causing the whole Second World War. So when one person gets inordinate control of another person, then that first person can actually break the life of the second person. So now the process of Bhakti Yoga, when we come to it, at one level, it requires surrender to the spiritual master.
In one sense, I give control of my mind and control of my life to my spiritual master. But if you see, the Bhagavad Gita has a double dynamic. On one side, Krishna tells Arjuna, In 18.63, he says, deliberate deeply and then decide what you want to do.
So actually, Krishna is a God who respects human intelligence and human independence. You deliberate and you decide what you want to do. And Arjuna voluntarily chooses Karishye Vachanam Tava.
I will do your way. But Krishna actually equips Arjuna to think. So education has to be done in such a way that those who have power, now they may direct others to act in particular ways.
But while doing the direction, they also give them the education of how they can make decisions. So if the Bhagavad Gita was simply about the question, should Arjuna fight or should Arjuna not fight? In Krishna Purya, say we are in a command fight and there would have been no Bhagavad Gita. Because 700 verses would have one word and that would have no significance.
But what Krishna tells Arjuna is not just the decision fight. He gives him the philosophical education on the basis of which the decision is made. Sometimes it is required that our guides, our elders, they make decisions for us.
It's like parents make decisions for a child. Should you go to this school or this school? There are decisions required. But the parents, as they train their child, eventually the purpose of a successful parent is not just to get a success of a parent is not just to get a totally obedient child.
Success of a parent is to get a thoughtful child who independently chooses to be respectful and obedient. That means the child understands, but if the child is just controlled completely, then the child, when the parent is no longer there, the child will not be able to choose. So the spiritual master is not just meant to give instructions to the student.
It's important to give instructions to the disciple, but also to educate the disciple so that eventually if the spiritual master is not available, the disciple can also thoughtfully make the right decisions. So there is, in one sense, we can never avoid this control. Because if we say I will not be controlled by devotees, we go around the world, we are controlled by the world's propaganda, the advertisement, there is materialism.
They control us. So we cannot avoid control, but we can choose the best controller. And that is from our perspective, if we take Krishna's guidance, the guidance of Krishna's devotees, then we will be guided so that we can use our free will properly.
At the same time, those who are acting on Krishna's behalf, they can't assume that because I am active, I am acting on Krishna's behalf, I am chanting Hare Krishna, so whatever I am guiding, that is perfect. But rather there has to be discussion, there has to be deliberation, there has to be education, by which even if my decision is right, how it is right, I have to explain to others so that they also evolve in their thinking. And that's why Srila Prabhupada just didn't want surrendered devotees.
He said we want independently thoughtful devotees. So when they are put in a situation where there is no direct scriptural guidance available, at that time how to decide? If they have their independent thoughtfulness, then they are going to decide at that time. Does it address the question? Thank you very much.
Shrimad Bhagwat Geetha Ki Jai Srila Prabhupada Ki Jai Gaur Bhakt Vrindavi Jai Jai Jai Jai Prabhu, today I didn't want you to come, and I had so much problem. I only came to express my gratitude to you. It's wonderful.
I want to thank you for that. Nobody, you wrote so many articles, but you said that only one. Your life goes on, Maharaj, for such a beautiful article.
It's self-explanatory. It's wonderful that the article you wrote about death has come out. I cannot believe that you don't recite it and write like that.
It's a wonderful thing you wrote. Thank you, Hare Krishna. That was amazing.
It's called Comeback Emperor, right? That was the article, I think. It's called Comeback Emperor. That was the article.
Thank you, Hare Krishna.