Overcoming obstacles 1 – Focus not on rejecting desire but on selecting desire – part 1

[Seminar in Alachua Learning Center, Alachua, USA]

Talk ppt

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna. I’m grateful to be here amongst all of you and while speaking on the topic of overcoming obstacles in spiritual life, I realise that I am facing an obstacle right now. Many of you are much much senior to me, you have faced many more obstacles than what I have faced, so I will as a service try to speak whatever little I have learned from Srila Prabhupada’s books and many of the followers of Srila Prabhupada and if there is anything which I speak wrong either during the question answer or afterwards personally, I see many of you as my venerable seniors and please feel free to correct me and I seek your blessing so that I can speak something today on this topic.
So when we talk about obstacles in spiritual life, I’m going to talk more about the inner world or inner life. So we have the subtle body which has three components, the mind, intelligence and the ego and then beyond that is the core of who we are, the soul. So there are four sessions, one session will talk about the mind and the obstacles of the level of the mind, that will be the first session.
Then we’ll go to the level of the intelligence and the obstacles at the level of the intelligence and so in the mind I’ll be talking primarily about desires and managing desires. In the obstacle at the level of the ego or of the level of the intelligence, I talk about reason and rationality and how it harmonises with bhakti or doesn’t harmonise with bhakti, what role it plays in bhakti and sometimes when some things don’t seem reasonable, how do we deal with that obstacle. Then especially with respect to the ego, I’ll focus on relationships and perceptions and how we can persevere and when either it’s our ego or somebody else’s ego, it comes in the way and we find that as an obstacle in our progress.
And lastly, the soul is the actual source of consciousness, the source of emotions. So in many ways the soul is actually synonymous with the heart. So directing our heart towards Krishna, what we could do practically about that, we will also discuss that.
So today I’ll talk about desires and the mind and the topic, we have a powerpoint, hopefully we started already, okay, okay, okay, so I’ll operate it from here. Okay, so wisdom means to, there are three parts in it, we understand what is the ideal, we accept what is the practical and then we find out how I can move from the practical to the ideal. Say, if we are driving from a particular place, yesterday I drove from Orlando here, suppose we get lost along the way and we go somewhere else, okay, first thing is I need to know where I want to go and then I have to accept, oh, I’ve gone off somewhere else and if I understand that I’ve gone off somewhere else, then I find out, okay, how can I get to the destination.
So we as souls, our natural situation is to love Krishna and to delight in loving Krishna, but presently we’ve gone off, our heart has gone off somewhere else and that is where we are right now. So unless I accept that I have gone to some other city, some other place, I can’t correct myself. So we have to accept where I am right now and somebody says, if I just accept, this is the way I am, sometimes some people use that as justification for saying, I can’t change, this is the way I am.
Now that will, we may say that is practical, but then that will, there is no transformation in it. So there is no transformation, then from the practical where I am, I have to find a way to move towards the ideal, to move towards the destination. So this is a theme which I’ll use in discussing various obstacles, understanding the ideal, accepting the practical and then moving from the practical towards the ideal.
When we talk about the mind, so this is the first part which we’ll do today morning in two hours. So when we talk about the mind, mind is usually thought of as the reservoir of desires. So our various desires spring from the mind and while managing the mind, we need to focus on not just rejecting desires, but also on selecting desires.
I’ll explain what it means by selecting desires. The Bhagavad Gita often warns us that the mind can be our enemy. So in 6.5, 6.6 Krishna says that the mind uncontrolled can be the enemy, but in the same breath, the Gita also talks about how the mind when controlled can be a friend.
And in either, the mind is basically a faculty which will generate desires. So there are different faculties we have, like we have this faculty of speech which generates voice. We have the faculty of eyes by which we see.
So these are different faculties which are there for the soul to use. So like that, the mind is a faculty which is going to generate desires and those desires, they can be healthy, they can be unhealthy. Ideally speaking, the soul’s desires should be channelled through the mind.
So some people often have slips of tongue. Why did I speak that? Speak something. Why did I speak that? It is as if I didn’t want to speak it, but somehow it came out.
So it’s almost like the mouth is speaking against our will. So the physical senses, they acting without our will or against our will, that happens occasionally. But the mind itself often comes up with desires which are not necessarily according to our will.
How the desires come up, I’ll discuss a bit later. But the mind is, so my tongue is meant to speak what I want to speak. But sometimes you speak something which I don’t want to speak.
So the mind is a tool for desires. That means whatever the soul’s desire, that should be channelled through the mind. But the mind has its conditionings, its impressions, and they generate desires.
And if we are not discerning, then those desires come out and we act on those desires. So the mind will generate desires. So we can’t reject all desires because desiring is the function of the mind.
So we need to select the desires. That’s the thing. Now the mind can be lethal.
It can be extremely dangerous. It can destroy us, not just spiritually, but even materially. But it is also essential.
In 2015, when I first came to America, I was going to, I had given a talk in Ohio State University. And I spoke, it was the Vegetarian Society. So there I spoke about regulating our mental diet.
And I spoke about how if we take in negativity from outside, that gets lodged into the mind and that makes the mind negative. So after that, one boy came and talked with me privately and he said that, just before this class, I was contemplating suicide. And he said, I was in a relationship and the girl just left me for someone else.
I was devastated. Somehow I saw this post. I thought I’ll come for the programme.
And then after that, he said, after giving the class, I understand that it is not that I want to commit suicide, but there is this something within me which is telling that you should commit suicide. And now I understand this is the mind. So last year again I had gone to Ohio State University.
I met that boy. He was much stabler. He is practising bhakti also nicely now.
So what happens here is that the mind speaks something from within us. And if you are not discerning, it can literally destroy you. It can destroy, not just spiritually, but materially also.
When people commit suicide, essentially what is happening? It is the mind that is killing the body. And now when there is so much fear of terrorist attacks and so much high vigilance of security is there all over the world, and that’s naturally a valuable concern. I mean, valid and important concern.
But still statistics show that more than the number of people who are killed by others is the number of people who are killing themselves. About 1 million people commit suicide every year. And this figure, 1 million, is more than the number of people who are killed in wars, murders, terrorist attacks, all kinds of violent crimes combined together, on an average.
Sometimes if a major war happens, it may be more. But on an average, so many people are killing themselves. What does that mean? That is actually the mind is destroying them.
So the mind can be lethal. At the same time, the mind is also essential, in the sense that the soul is spiritual, the body is material, it is physical. For the soul to connect with the body, the mind is a vital link.
So without the mind, we cannot function. We need the mind for functioning. At the same time, this mind can also stop our functioning, can destroy us.
So one example to understand it could be like a horse. Suppose somebody is living on a big ranch and they will manage the whole property and say it’s a little old primitive time, so there are no vehicles. So the person needs a horse to traverse the property.
But the horse is dangerous. So at that time, the person needs the horse, but the same horse, if it goes wild, it throws away the person, it knocks down the person, it stampedes, stamps on the person, the person may die. So the horse can be lethal, but the horse is also essential.
And there is a process which is called breaking a horse. Breaking does not mean literally physically breaking, but breaking the rebelliousness, breaking the undisciplined nature of the horse and making it tame. So like that, our mind is also essential.
And we need to break the mind, that means we need to tame the mind. And to the extent we can tame the mind, to that extent we will be able to be productive in whatever we do. Now the mind is something which we, as I said, we cannot get rid of it.
So we need the mind for functioning in the world. So we need to learn to live with the mind. It’s like a ranch owner has to live with the horse, has to learn to use the horse.
So when Krishna talks about the word svabhava, svabhava means bhava is nature, sva is one’s own nature. So for example, Krishna says in the 18th month 59 and 60 that svabhava jeena kaunte nivadhasve na karmana kartum nechaseyan mohan karishasya avashopitad. This is 18.60. He says that svabhava jeena kaunte, by your svabhava, nivadhasve na karmana, everybody is bound to act by their svabhava, nobody can change that.
Kartum nechaseyan mohan, you are saying you will not fight Arjuna, this is your mohan, this is your illusion. Karishasya avashopitad, you will act helplessly. And the previous verse says, yad ahankara mahasrita no yotsitamanya se, mithyesya vyavasayas te, prakratisthvam yogshati, that if you say out of ego I will not act, but still material nature will engage you.
So when Krishna is talking about svabhava, he is not talking about the spiritual nature over here. The spiritual nature is the soul’s nature to serve Krishna. When he uses the word svabhava, actually sva means one’s own, bhava is nature.
He talks about one’s own nature. Where is this nature situated? To a large extent, that nature is situated in the mind. And when Krishna says that from your svabhava comes your svadharma and you have to act according to your svadharma.
That means he is saying that okay, the nature, your nature is there in the mind and you have to learn to act according to it. So at one level we talk about rejecting the mind’s desires, but at another level we also understand the mind has a nature and we need to act according to that nature. I’ll talk a little bit more about this.
So the soul is transcendent. The soul is functioning in a particular body right now. A body and mind together.
And we have to know what the nature of our mind is and function accordingly. So not understanding this, that I may say everything material is just temporary. I don’t care about the mind.
I don’t care about the body. Ultimately I am the soul. I am transcendental and I will act at a transcendental level.
We actually cannot immediately act at the transcendental level. In fact, when we try to act at the transcendental level, the intent is good. We all want to be transcendental.
But at a practical level, the ideal is to be at the transcendental level. But I have to know practically where I am. If I don’t acknowledge that, it can have counterproductive results.
So I answered questions on my website. So I answered more than 4,000-5,000 questions. So one Mataji, she asked a question.
She said that since my childhood, I was always very fearful, very paranoid. And then I went to a ISKCON class and there I heard that we may die at any time. And that has made me so fearful.
And since from childhood I was taking treatment from a psychiatrist and then this made me so fearful that again I had to go to psychiatrist. Psychiatrist told me that if you hear this ISKCON philosophy, that is psychologically damaging for you. So stop hearing this.
She said, isn’t that, isn’t the Bhagavad Gita psychologically damaging? He says, how do I understand this? She’s an Indian lady. So she said, I have always respected the Bhagavad Gita. But how do I understand this? So then I explained elaborately.
And the thing is that the Bhagavad philosophy, spiritual philosophy does involve understanding that death can come at any time. But then this fact that death can come at any time, depending on which mode we are in, we will perceive it differently. So if we are in goodness, if we are in passion, if we are in ignorance, that same fact, we will perceive it very differently.
So we all say that for example that life is temporary. And therefore, why focus on the temporary? Focus on the eternal. Youth is there, but youth is also temporary.
Focus on eternal. This is the spiritual understanding. This is we could say the sattvic understanding, which is the mode of goodness understanding, which is conducive for the spiritual.
But in the mode of passion, the same fact can be taken. I was in Kolkata. I had gone for a youth camp.
So there I saw an advertisement. It was about some nightclub or something that was there over there. And they said, enjoy before you become a dirty old man.
So the idea is, they also acknowledge youth is temporary. But the same fact that youth is temporary, instead of using it for becoming detached from the material, they say, enjoy before you lose it. Enjoy before you lose it.
So what has happened? The fact is the same, but the perception can vary depending on whether I’m in goodness or I’m in passion. So in goodness, okay, it is temporary. Let me find out what is eternal and focus on the eternal.
But in passion, it’s temporary. I have to grab it and enjoy it before I lose it. Now that same fact that everything is temporary, if somebody is in ignorance, one of the characteristics of the mode of ignorance is fearfulness.
या सोप्नं भयं शोकं विषादं मदमेव चिनविमुञ्चति दुरमेथा प्रुति सापार्थतां See, Krishna says in 18.35, the determination in the mode of ignorance, that is characterised by या सोप्नं भयं शोकं विषादं मदमेव चिनविमुञ्चति दुरमेथा प्रुति सापार्थतां Daydreaming, I’ll do this, I’ll do that. भयं, fear. This may go wrong, that may go wrong, that may go wrong, that may go wrong.
विषादं, moroseness. Always looking at things in a very negative way. मदमेव, and then just forgetting everything through intoxication.
न विषादं भयं शोकं विषादं मदमेव चिनविमुञ्चति दुरमेथा प्रुति सापार्थतां And one who does not give this up. Just holds on to it continuously. न विषादं भयं शोकं विषादं मदमेव चिनविमुञ्चति दुरमेथा प्रुति सापार्थतां See, this is determination in the mode of ignorance.
Normally we think of determination as something very positive. But here Krishna is talking about determination in the mode of ignorance. What that means is that in a contemporary language you could say this is obstinacy or stubbornness.
Holding on to something although that hurts us and although others tell us that we should give this up. So Duryodhana, Dhritarashtra, they are holding on to the Kuru Kingdom. That is an example of obstinacy.
That is determination in the mode of ignorance. Now there can be holding on to physical things. They are holding on to the kingdom.
But like that there can be holding on to unhealthy attitudes also. So a constant fearfulness, always think this may go wrong, that may happen, this may happen, that may happen. Now that fearfulness that is actually a characteristic of the mode of ignorance.
Basically in goodness the mind we detach it from matter. In passion the mind is animated by the desire to enjoy matter. In ignorance actually even enjoying the senses requires a mode of hard work.
In ignorance one does not want to do that also. So one is simply, the mind is running here and there and one just goes along with the mind. Sometimes it fantasises about pleasure, sometimes it agonises about trouble and one just goes along.
So one way we put the goodness, passion, ignorance is some people make things happen, some people watch things happen and some people wonder what happened. So in goodness people think and then they work, they make things happen. Some people watch things happen, I have to do this, this went wrong, I have to do that, but that went wrong.
And then some people just don’t do that, what is happening, this is happening, that is happening, they wonder what happened. So actually in the Amrit Manthan Leela, in the churning of the milk ocean, it is described that the devatas and the dhanavas, they were on the two sides and they were churning the milk ocean with the mandara mound. So it is interesting that sometimes people feel that I have to work in this world, I have to be in passion, I cannot be in goodness.
But it is not necessarily like that. In goodness also a person can work, in fact they can work more effectively. So here what it is said is the devatas were on one side and the dhanavas were on the other side.
And the devatas were animated by the mode of goodness and the dhanavas were animated by the mode of passion. And Vasuki who was the rope, he was animated by the mode of ignorance. He was unanimated basically, he had gone to sleep so that he would not create trouble for anyone else.
But the idea is that when two sides are churning, pulling, both have to have equal strength. Otherwise there will be imbalance for churning to happen. So it is significant that the strength of the mode of goodness and the strength of the mode of passion, the devatas were pulling through goodness and dhanavas were pulling through passion, it was equivalent.
So that means for functioning in this world, it is not necessary that we have to be in passion. We can function in goodness and we can be productive also. But for us the point is that if we are in ignorance, then we may be very fearful of things.
And then if I am in ignorance, if I am always fearful, and then I hear, death may come any time, I may be driving along, the car may meet with an accident, or I may get a heart attack or this or that. Yes, there are possibilities. Everything is possible in this world.
But then we cannot lead our life becoming paralysed by possibilities. There is possibility and there is probability. Possibility means what it can happen.
Probability means what is likely to happen. So in one sense, anytime when we are driving, an accident can occur. But if the brakes of my car have already failed, or if I am drunk and I am driving, then it’s not just a possibility, it’s a probability.
So we are not meant, when scriptures tell us that life is temporary, death can come anytime, the purpose is not to make us constantly fearful. The purpose is to actually help us. So the purpose is to help us to turn our consciousness towards the eternal.
So if somebody is too much influenced by the mode of ignorance, and then they hear, death can come anytime, then that part of hearing that can actually be damaging. Then if you find that way, then that person may not hear that kind of thing. And they focus on hearing more about Krishna, more about other aspects of the philosophy, which can help one to come to the mode of goodness.
And when one is in the mode of goodness, then hearing about the temporality of material nature will have a desired effect. So when we hear the philosophy, jnanam jnayam jnanagamyam, Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita 13th chapter talks about, there is knowledge, there is knower, there is knowledge, there is the object of knowledge, and then there is a goal of knowledge. Jnanagamyam.
So object of knowledge means what I am studying. But goal of knowledge is what is ultimately to be known. So we may study, if you want to study, somebody can do a PhD in mic design.
One of my friends, he has done a PhD in digestive systems of Alaskan mosquitoes. Nowadays there are micro specialisations. So people do all kinds of studies.
So now, if somebody wants to study, he can study any field. And every field can become like a universe in which one can go. But the point is, every object can be a field of study, but there is an ultimate purpose of knowledge.
The purpose of knowledge is the vedasya sarvai ameva vedyo. It is Krishna who is to be known. So when I am studying the philosophy, I have to see, okay, this aspect of philosophy, how much is it helping me to go closer towards Krishna.
I will talk about the aspects of philosophy more when we talk about the intelligence. But here I am talking about the mind. And the point is that the same truth about the temporality of the material world, that can have an unfavourable effect if somebody is in a mode of ignorance.
So it is not that Bhagavad Gita’s philosophy is psychologically damaging. Rather, for those who are already psychologically damaged, because of whatever conditioning, whatever impressions, or not necessarily damaged, it may be a strong word, for those who are psychologically vulnerable, then for them, they have to appropriately, with intelligent guidance, choose which aspect of the philosophy to focus on. What to hear.
And then that will help them grow. So here, the reason why I am talking about this, is that while we are living in the material world, we cannot have a totally dismissive attitude towards the material. The material world is where we are functioning and the mind which I have is the mind that I have.
And no matter what we do, we can’t get another mind. This is the mind with which we have to live in this life and maybe in future lives also, till we become liberated. So understanding our mind and then learning how to engage that mind in Krishna’s service, that is important for us.
So, now if we talk about, I am talking about this whole theme about the material, it is not meant to be rejected, but it is to be selected or harmonised. So normally we think about, say that we are not the body, we are the soul. Our identity is that I am a soul.
Yes, that is our fundamental identity. Along with this fundamental identity, we also have functional identities in this world. Functional identity is based on the role that we are playing in this world.
So in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says in 2.13, you are the, you are the soul who is inside the body. So Prabhupada paraphrases, you are not the body, you are the soul. And yet right in the next verse itself, in 2.40, Krishna says that, matra sparshastu kaunteya, shito shukha dukkha daha, aagam apayino nityas, tam sitikshasubharata.
So he says, Arjuna, tolerate whatever is temporary, happiness and distress, heat and cold. That is, that is valid, but he uses two addresses over there. One is Kaunteya and the other is Bharata.
Now, if we see, both of them are related with the body. Just now Krishna told Arjuna, you are not the body, and then he is saying that, oh, you are the son of Kunti, you are the descendant of Bharata. Why is Krishna talking about this, if ultimately you are not the body? So actually Prabhupada writes in the purport over there, that actually when we belong to a great dynasty, then that brings great responsibility.
So the idea is that, yes, Krishna may, the Acharya has explained what the theme is, when Arjuna says that, yeah, Krishna, I know that I am not the body, but still, when I see my loved ones being killed, they are losing their bodies, that will cause me pain. So Krishna says, you are tolerated. And this tolerance is not easy.
But you, because you belong to a great dynasty, so you can do that which is difficult. So you are not an ordinary person. You are the son of the great Kunti.
And therefore, that tolerance which is difficult, you can tolerate. You belong to the illustrious dynasty of the Bharatas. Therefore, you can do difficult things.
So Krishna does not reject the functional identity that he is a Bharata or he is a Kunti. But he says, he uses it to help Arjuna, to inspire Arjuna to act according to his fundamental identity. To act in a way that will help him to move towards his spiritual realisation.
And Srila Prabhupada would also do this. So when Srila Prabhupada was in America, I think the first time, when they had a big festival in Mumbai, the devotees had done fabulous things. Initially, the devotees were very new and they just did.
When Prabhupada told, we will have a big festival and thousands of people will come. So the devotees, how will we do this? Where will we get the money? Where will people come from? And they were quite apprehensive. And Prabhupada in lecture told them that all over the world, you Americans are known as great people.
And what is the use of you being Americans if you don’t do something great for Krishna? Now Prabhupada in another lecture says that we are not Americans, we are not Indians, we are not this, we are not that. But then the point is that in a functional sense, we belong to a particular country. And then Prabhupada is using that functional identity to inspire the devotees to act for the service of Krishna.
It’s a difficult service but he is inspiring them to do that. And the same spirit Prabhupada uses for Indians also. In a Hindi lecture, he says to Indians, especially they had come to the Juhu land area and Prabhupada says that actually Bhagavad Gita is the book from India.
But to teach the Bhagavad Gita in India, I have to get people from America. He says, what is the use of you Indians? Instead of teaching the Bhagavad Gita, you are going to a factory mill and you are working over there. Many of the people are businessmen.
So Prabhupada uses commercial language. He says, you learn the Bhagavad Gita, you teach the Bhagavad Gita. There is a big market all over the world.
It’s a big market all over the world. Now, they are not Indians, philosophically speaking. Functionally, they are.
So the idea is that whatever we are at the material level, ultimately we reject that. But transitionally or intermediately, we are meant to use that. We can’t reject that.
So accepting that, okay, this is what I am at a material level. This is the, so I talked about nationality. I talk about belonging to a particular dynasty.
And similarly, we can talk about mentality. Now I have a particular mentality. I have a particular attitude.
I have a particular disposition. And rather than saying that, no, this is not how I should be. This is not right.
No, this is what I am. So how can I use this in Krishna sense? So that is the, that is actually Prabhupada’s expertise. And the idea is, I harmonise the material with the spiritual.
So we can’t replace the mind, but we can re-place it. Replace means get rid of it and get a new mind. We can’t do that.
The mind which we have is the mind we have. But re-place it means we can place it properly. Okay, the mind wants to go here, go there, go there, go there.
We cannot stop it from going somewhere. But we can place it properly so that it can take us towards Krishna, so that it can go towards Krishna. So when we work with the mind, then it enables us to connect with Krishna.
Otherwise, if we start rejecting the mind, then we can’t sustain it for very long. And eventually we feel repressed, we feel choked and all that choked feeling then comes up as resentment. So now here is something important about the relationship between the spiritual and the material.
The spiritual material, the Vedanta explains, are two separate categories of existence. And that is the stress in the Bhagavad Gita second chapter also. Krishna says, nainam chinnam jastrani nainam dhahati pavakaha.
Whatever destroys the body that cannot destroy the soul. So the spiritual and the material are two distinct categories. And this implies that the spiritual is ultimately the purpose of the material.
That means that we have a material body which is meant to be used for spiritual realisation. But the spiritual is not the substitute for the material. The spiritual cannot replace the material.
So, as perhaps a somewhat provocative example of this point, Krishna gave the knowledge of the Bhagavad Gita to Arjuna. And after that Arjuna fought the war. And Arjuna won the war.
Now did Arjuna win the war based on the knowledge of the Bhagavad Gita? Or did he win that war based on the knowledge of archery that he had learned from Drona and practised throughout his life? Both. India both. It is not that the Bhagavad Gita’s knowledge alone helped him to win the Kurukshetra war.
The Bhagavad Gita’s knowledge gave him the inspiration, gave him the direction, gave him the vision. But the Bhagavad Gita itself is not a martial text. It is not talking about martial skills.
So, the spiritual and the material both are meant to go together. And when both go together, then there is effective result at the material level. In a sense, the Bhagavad Gita has two endings.
There is the ending when Arjuna speaks in 18.73. And there is its ending again when Sanjay speaks in 18.78. So, the ending at 18.73 when Arjuna speaks is, naṣṭo moha smṛtir labdhā tat prasādānmay ācchuta siddho smṛgata sandeha kariṣye vacinam tava. So, he says that, actually, naṣṭo moha, that my illusion is now gone. siddho smṛgata, smṛtir labdhā, my memory is restored.
And siddho smṛgata sandeha, my doubts have gone, I am well situated. And then, kariṣye vacinam tava, I will do your will. So, here, this result is more of an internal result.
Arjuna was internally confused at the start of the Gita. And by the end of the Gita, he is internally restored to his morale, to his calmness, to his clarity. So, this is one ending of the Gita where it is an internal result that is described.
And the other ending of the Gita is 18.78 is, yatra yogesvara kṛṣṇa yatra pārtho dhanurdhara tatra śrīrvijayo bhūtir dhruvānītir matirmama. Where Sanjay is predicting that wherever there is Krishna and where there is Arjuna, there will be morality, there will be opulence, there will be victory. So, Sanjay is actually predicting the result of the war.
This is actually an external result. And indirectly, this is the answer to Dhritarashtra’s starting question. What happened? dharmakṣetre, kurukṣetre, sāmavaitāyotsa, māmakaha pāṇḍavasya, kim akūruta sanjaya? What did they do? The implicit question was what happened over there? Who won? Who is going to win? So, he is giving an indirect answer over there that actually the Pāṇḍavas are going to win.
So, now these are two endings. One is internal and the other is external. But these two endings actually point to the same end.
What is the same end that is being pointed out? That the two endings, that when there is internal harmony with the Lord, then there is external prosperity, external success that also exists. So, the two are connected but at the same time two are distinct. So, Arjuna became internally composed by hearing the Bhagavad Gita.
After that he had to fight the war. He fought the war and he won the war thereafter. So, the point is that the material and the spiritual, they are two distinct categories and the material is meant to be used in the service of the spiritual.
Material is meant to realise the spiritual. But the material can’t be just rejected or the spiritual can’t substitute for the material. The spiritual can’t substitute for the material.
I may say, I will wake up and chant Hare Krishna. Chanting Hare Krishna is very pure. I may chant 64 rounds attentively.
With all due respect to the holy name, 64 rounds chanting is not going to remove the bad breath from my mouth if I don’t brush my teeth. And it is not expected to. It is not expected to.
The material, the spiritual is meant to purify us internally. But at a material level, we know Rupa Goswami says, one of the things about a devotee, that a devotee should do material activities also carefully. And there Prabhupada writes that we should brush our teeth also carefully.
So, the point is that the material is not to be replaced by the spiritual. The material is to be directed by the spiritual. So, understanding this that my mind is material, it has certain tendencies.
And I cannot just reject them in the name of spiritual. I have to understand them and I have to find how I can direct them for my spiritual growth. So, I will summarise.
So, when we said that we will have question answers at the end, that is we will have longer question answers, but if you have some questions, we can discuss for a few minutes now also. And I will continue after the break after that. So, first I will summarise.
I spoke just now about working obstacles in spiritual life. So, we will be discussing mind, intelligence, ego, and the heart. We focus on the mind.
And rather than rejecting desires, we have to select desires. And the mind is the faculty which is the generator of desires. Just like the voice is the generator of speech.
The throat is the generator of speech we could say. And the mind is something which we have to live with. It is essential for us to function in this world.
Just like for a ranch owner, a horse is essential for traversing the territory. At the same time, just like the horse can be so dangerous it can kill the owner, similarly the mind can be lethal. The mind can make people suicidal and it can cause people to die also.
So, then we have to learn to manage the mind. And we cannot just suppress or reject the mind. And managing the mind means that we recognise that there is the material side and there is the spiritual side.
And the material is to be harmonised with the spiritual. So, here are some examples of that. That if we have a dismissive attitude towards the material, then that can be counterproductive.
So, somebody may say, oh everything is temporary, we are going to die, just forget everything. If I am in the mood of ignorance, that can actually have a psychologically damaging effect on me. So, the same fact of death, in goodness, it will help me to become focused more on the eternal.
In passion, it will make me more obsessive about enjoying the temporary before it is lost. In ignorance, it can make me paranoid. So, when I am studying the philosophy, I have to find out that the objective of the philosophy is to go closer towards Krishna.
So, I focus on those aspects of philosophy which help me to move closer towards Krishna. And an utterly dismissive attitude towards the material, it may not help us to move towards Krishna. It can actually hurt us in various ways.
And that is not the tradition also. We see that in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna gives us our fundamental or foundational identity as souls. But he doesn’t reject the functional identity.
In 2.13 and 2.14 he says, you are Bharata, you are Kaunteya. So, whatever we are at the material level, that can be used to inspire us to act towards realising the spiritual. We talked about Prabhupada’s expertise also.
Using people’s sense of American identity or Indian identity, either way, to inspire them to do things in the service of Krishna. And similarly, we concluded with talking about the spiritual and the material. They are two different categories.
And they are not interchangeable. Arjuna won the war based on not just the knowledge of the Gita, but the knowledge of the Gita and the knowledge of archery which he had learnt throughout his life. So, we are meant to, the spiritual will give us the guidance about how to use the material.
But the spiritual doesn’t replace the material. And so, we have to understand the material resources that we have and also use those resources appropriately. And the mind is one such resource, which also we need to understand and use appropriately.
Thank you very much. Yes, you had a question? How can we increase our desire to receive good books? Prabhupada launched into a very prolonged silence. He was just kind of waiting for that magic instruction.
And so then, he looked up to the ceiling and he said, if you really want to increase book distribution, if you really want to increase book distribution, then you’ll chant all year round without stopping. And when I joined the movement in 77, every single devotee, we had 45 brahmacharis in New York, every single one of them got up at 2 a.m. to fill the instruction. Now, I guess the context which I’m asking is, distributing books is actually quite a complex interface of material energy.
So I got Prabhupada focused on this. And Subhash, he comments that his experience with many, many years of book distribution, he’s still getting up at 2 a.m. by then, but that he would have a really good day if he followed that instruction. If his rounds were spaced out, if he didn’t follow that instruction, everything would go wrong.
So, this was kind of a strategy, at the same time we were familiar, is that I always emphasised that it always seemed to work. So, it did seem that by going deep with focussing on the spiritual, so that the material would get worked out in a pretty powerful way. We did a lot of facility.
And you do, like in your Shashtakam seminar, you were speaking about Vidyadharam Jivanam, that we would get the intelligence to go ahead with our service. Anyway, I wondered if you could comment on these points, kind of bring it into the context of the instruction. So, Shri Prabhupada said, how can we distribute his books? That we should chant attentively.
Distribution of books is a complex interaction in the material world. And so chanting is a devotional activity. So, it seems that if a devotional activity can give us the material intelligence, then can we really say the material and the spiritual are separate? Actually, let’s start with first, that which is like a radical difference between the material and the spiritual.
And then gradually we’ll come to areas which are grey zones. So, suppose I get a fracture. Then chanting Hare Krishna can help me to tolerate the pain.
But will chanting Hare Krishna cure my fracture? Krishna can do it. Krishna can do anything. But that is not the normal expectation.
A devotee doesn’t demand that from Krishna. And even in the Vedic tradition itself, there is a whole branch of Ayurveda, which is its own independent complex body of knowledge. And if you see Ayurveda, there is an acknowledgement of God’s that Vishnu is the ultimate potent principle.
But there is quite an intricate understanding of which material substance acts how another material substance. If you’re taking this herb, how it’s affecting on the body. So, it’s all about material substance and their mutual interactions.
So, it is not that the faith in Vishnu led to the rejection of Ayurveda. So, in a common sense, understand that if I have a physical structural damage to the body, chanting Hare Krishna, I don’t expect that to cure it. I need a material process for curing it.
There are some ultra-right Christian groups who say that if you have faith in God, if you surrender to Jesus and you have faith that Jesus has saved you, then you’ll become free from all problems. So, there are some student groups who are quite right-wing. They say if you have specks, if you have faith in Jesus, your eyes will get healed.
Jesus removed, Jesus cured the blind also. So, what to speak of somebody who has little specks? Your eyes will get restored. And then people, because they are expected with a social pressure, say that I have faith.
So, they just give up their specks. And then they go to college, they can’t read anything. Oh, why am I not able to read? Because I don’t have enough faith in Jesus.
If I had faith in Jesus, then I would be able to read. It is so, when this happened, the US government has made a rule now that any religious belief systems that interfere with medical treatment of people, now they can be, legal action can be taken against them. And in India also, the similar bill has now been passed.
So, many of these Babas who administer some sacred ash and other things, they are up in arms against it because they feel their business is being threatened. So, the point is when we come to radical physical things, we understand that these are, there is a physical structure and there is a physical mechanism over there. So, I need it, we need it, we will need to go to a physical expert, a medical expert for healing of physical damage such as a fracture.
Similarly, if I consider another skill like driving. There is, in Prabhupada Nectar, there is an incident of where some devotees were going on food distribution and they were driving very fast and there was an accident. And then several of them passed away actually in that accident.
The devotees asked Prabhupada, you know, was it Krishna’s arrangement? You know, they were driving and Krishna said, no, Prabhupada, it was their carelessness. We should be driving carefully. Now, our intent may be to, oh, I want to go for Krishna’s service, I want to go very fast.
But you know, driving is a material law. So, if I drive carelessly, if I hit a wall or if I hit a pillar or something, you know, my chanting Hare Krishna, it will protect my soul, it will elevate my soul. But at the body level, there is going to be damage.
So, generally, when it comes to physical things, this differentiation is relatively easy to understand. But when it comes to subtler or mental things, then things become a little difficult. So, for example, with respect to behaviour or with respect to say, say, with respect to food distribution, same example, let me take food distribution.
Say somebody chants Hare Krishna very attentively and then they go and distribute books. And they find that, yes, I just get the right things to speak. And then I speak them and I am able to distribute books.
That’s good. But if somebody else, they chant Hare Krishna and still, when they go in front of someone, they get paralysed. I don’t know what to speak.
Get fearful and they are not able to distribute books. Then is it in principle wrong for them to maybe attend some book distribution seminars, learn from some book distributors, how to distribute books? Okay, what to speak at what time? We can’t say it is wrong. So, it is generally, anukulnesa sankalpa pati kundese varcha.
So, we all need to chant attentively. One of the things which, when I attended the first public speaking seminar in ISKCON after I started preaching. So, several guidelines were given.
And the last guideline was, depend on Krishna. But there is a bracket, depend on Krishna after you have prepared. So, if I don’t prepare and say I am depending on Krishna, that is actually not necessarily dependent.
That could just be irresponsibility. So, some people, they just chant Hare Krishna very attentively. And then they just go and give class and class comes out wonderful.
Now, how it works out? Well, it may well be that they already have a very good intelligence. And the chanting just calms their mind, clarifies their intelligence, they are able to speak. But other devotees, they may chant very attentively.
But still they may get stage-fright when they go in front of the speaker. And they may have to have notes, they may have to prepare vigorously. So, I would say that every one of us is an individual.
And we have to find out how best we can serve Krishna. So, in general, chanting seriously is important for everyone. But whether chanting seriously will necessarily lead to the service performance, that may vary according to person to person.
And see, A leads to B. Okay, chanting attentively leads to B. That’s one thing. But that doesn’t mean the absence of B, it’s a standard of fallacy logic it is called. A causes B, that does not necessarily mean the absence of B is because of absence of A. Because B can be caused, may be caused by some other things also.
Somebody may be a good book distributor, just because they are charismatic. They are good speakers, they just can influence people. So, on the other hand, somebody may not have B, although they have A. Chanting attentively, but they are not able to distribute.
So, it shouldn’t be somebody not able to do service properly, and then they need some skills, they need some support for developing necessary skills. And if their inability to do that service is made into a value judgement about the quality of their bhakti, that can become very damaging. Why are you not able to distribute books? Because you are not chanting attentively.
I don’t know, I am trying to chant attentively as I can. What more can I do? So, I feel that the instruction of chanting is vital for all devotees. And to some extent, some of us already have certain skills.
And chanting helps us to calm our mind and then we can use those skills better. But some of us may require a lot of effort to develop those skills. And if that is required, that’s what a person can do.
So, rather than saying that chanting leads to good book distribution, it is true, but there is an intermediate factor over there. Chanting enables us to tap the abilities that we have so that we can do our service nicely. And some people who do not have that level of abilities, they may need to have specific training so that they can develop those abilities.
So, in my college seminars, I say our spirituality increases our ability to tap our ability. I have the ability, but then I need to have mental calmness, mental clarity, which means I will tap my ability. But if somebody doesn’t have that ability, then they may need additional training so that they can develop it.
So, it may well be for that devotee who cannot distribute books so well. Now, that devotee may be very good in some other service. That devotee may be very good at cooking or very good in deity worship.
And then if they chant very well, then they can do deity worship very wonderfully. But if that devotee has to go and distribute books, so that’s the service that is expected. Then chanting, they also have to chant nicely, but they may need some other training or skills for doing that particular service well.
Does it address you? Maybe we can come back to you later if you don’t mind. Yes, Mataji. You said that we get one mind for this one lifetime.
So, what part of the mind changes, and what doesn’t change? Because it’s tapered off at a margin. There’s cleansing of the mind going on. You cited the three modes of attitude.
But is that what will change in time? We want that to come to the most… Is it the mind that… Do you have an analogy, perhaps? Okay. Yeah. So, we say that we have only one mind, but then we say by purification the mind changes.
So, which part of the mind changes or what exactly happens? Yeah. Actually, when we say the ceto-darpana-marjana, so the mind is often referred to as a mirror. Now, the darpana means mirror.
And depending on the impressions that are there in the mind, the mind gives us a distorted self-conception. It’s like somebody might be a beauty queen, but if they look in a convex mirror, which is convex or concave? Where you get distorted? Concave mirror. Concave mirror.
They look at it, what is this? Oh, I’m looking like this. So, what has happened? That mirror is giving a distorted self-conception. A distorted reflection of oneself.
So, like that, the mind is a mirror which gives us a distorted reflection of who we are. Now, that distorted can be in an egoistic sense, where I think, oh, I’m so wealthy, I’m so strong, I’m so beautiful. Or it can be in a negative sense, material negative sense.
You don’t look good, you’re too fat, you’re too this, you’re too that, whatever it is. Both are different kinds of, both are basically distortions of self-conception. So, now in the Samadhi verses 6.28-23, in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says, yatra paramate chittam niruddham yogasevaya yatra caiva aatmanatmanam paschen aatman tushyati He says, by the practise of yoga, when the material movements of the mind cease, at that time, one sees the self with the mind.
And one delights in the self. yatra caiva aatmanatmanam aatmana, one is an instrumental case, the other is the objective case. So, with the mind, we see the self and we delight in the self.
That means, at the purified stage, our self, the mind becomes a mirror, which reflects who we really are. That means we are souls, we are parts of Krishna, we are godly. As Krishna is supremely attractive, we as souls are also attractive.
So, that reflection when it comes, then we delight in ourselves. And this is spiritual delight. So, what changes, we could say, in the mind is, that if you compare the mind to a mirror, then whatever is, maybe the dust is there, or whatever is the, whatever the factors that are causing the mirror to give a distorted reflection of ourselves, that, those factors get removed.
And then we see ourselves for who we are. So, the dirt on the mind, which causes a distortion of our self-perception, that goes away. So, now does this necessarily mean, say for example, a Kshatriya will become a Brahmana? Not necessarily.
What it essentially means is that, the Kshatriya will understand that, yes, I am a soul, I have a Kshatriya body right now. I am not a Kshatriya, I am a soul. I have a Kshatriya body, I have to use it, but beyond this, I am a soul.
So, one will understand one’s spiritual identity, and one will delight in one’s spiritual identity. So, the more we become purified, the more we can, in the initial stages, the mind may still give a negative self, distorted self-reflection, but we are not affected by that. You are like this, you are like that, whatever it is.
Krishna still loves me. I can still serve Krishna, if he focusses on Krishna. And that way we move forward purposefully.
So, the process of purification gradually decreases the distorted self-conception that the mind reflects on us. That’s how the mind changes, when we become purified. Did I answer your question? Yes.
Prabhuji, you quoted the verse, you quoted the verse, then you say that nature is situated in the mind, in this verse applicable, that nature is situated in the mind, not the soul. This is what I heard. Then you say, then the beauty of that, or on that platform, is what South Brahma is referring.
So, then if I think, while you are saying, I was thinking that Krishna says also, South Brahma, now the whole discussion is on the reference. So, how to really see that Krishna almost seems like he’s saying that, according to you, that if the nature is situated in the mind and the beauty platform on that level is South Brahma, then if it is not engaged, then it’s almost like violence. Vyabhava, Krishna says that Vyabhava is very dangerous.
But when we join, generally we are guided to do the particular things that temple needs, not what my South Brahma, I have no idea either. So, how do you, I mean, I don’t see anything wrong in a sense, but at the same time, how to understand that you are right also. So, if we say that Subhava and South Brahma refer to our material nature, the way the mind is, and we have to engage accordingly, and Krishna says not engaging that way is violence, but then when we join, we are told to just simply do whatever is needed for the temple or the movement.
So, how do we harmonise? Actually, the second part of this is Varanashram and its practical application. So, the second part, I’m going to talk elaborately about this topic, but I just mention it briefly right now. See, generally in Kanyuga, externally and internally, there is confusion.
Externally, we don’t have a proper Varanashram structure. So, and internally also, we really don’t know what my nature is, what my interest is. So, in the initial stages of our spiritual life, if we depend on our own mind to decide what is my nature, what is my nature, the mind will say, whatever you are doing, that is not your nature.
That means, the grass is always greener on the other side. So, the mind will simply keep us dissatisfied with whatever we are doing. See, the mind, the conditioned mind doesn’t need a reason to be dissatisfied.
It needs to be dissatisfied. It’s just, lobha pravrttir aarambha karmanam asimha spivaraja sethani jayante vibhuddhe kundal That greed is an insatiable, inalterable, is an inalterable characteristic of the mind in the mode of passion. So, that’s why in the initial stages when we join, if we start thinking, this is not my nature, I’ll not do this service, this is not my nature, I’ll not do this service, what is going to happen is that we will basically remain completely controlled by our mind.
So, over a period of time, as we keep practising bhakti, we come to the mode of goodness. Slowly. And as we come to the mode of goodness, we start understanding ourselves how best I can siddha.
So, Srila Prabhupada also writes in the Introduction to the Nectar of Instruction, one of the last sentences over there is, once you come to the mode of goodness, how to advance further will be revealed from within. That means, when we come to the mode of goodness, we start understanding us. We start also understanding the voice of the Lord when it comes from within for us.
That’s why initially, doing whatever we are told to do, it is very healthy for us. Because we just don’t know what our nature is initially. But over a period of time, as we keep practising bhakti, while doing various services, we observe, in this service, I am very comfortable doing this.
So, basically, guna, karma, vibhava, shyam and krishna says, quality and activity. So, the way, my understanding of this is that, guna means, if I have the quality for doing something, that means I am comfortable doing it. And karma means competence.
If I am comfortable doing something, I am competent doing something. That means, that is what is according to my nature. So, while we are doing whatever services we are told to do, we keep observing, this service, I can do this well, and I like doing this.
This service, I do it, but I am just logging when it will get over. And sometimes there are some services, you know, to do that service, we have to get strength from other services. Because that service is so difficult for us.
It is just the way we are. So, we do whatever we are told to do, but at the same time, we also observe ourselves. And over a period of time, we start learning, this is what I can do.
And this is what I should be doing. And I was in Australia last year, so I was talking to Guruji about this. So, he said, actually when you are young, so, he said, when you are young, because the mode of passion is there, to some extent, in youth, we can even fight against our nature.
My nature is to do this, but I want to achieve something over here, so I will do it. But he said, as you grow older, you just don’t have that passion to fight against your nature. So, as you grow older, you want to act more according to your nature.
So, we become spiritually advanced, that doesn’t mean that necessarily our nature goes away. It means that we connect with Krishna more in whatever we are doing. So, we may have to, we do, we should do whatever we are told to do initially, but at the same time, we also observe what I am comfortable doing, what I am competent doing.
And then gradually, we gravitate towards that surface. And ultimately, if we are to practise Bhakti lifelong, then we need to have some service which we can do lifelong, which we feel inspired to do lifelong. Initially, devotees are doing follow-up, you know, but we can’t expect devotees to keep doing follow-up lifelong for us.
Ultimately, we need to have the motivation to do something for Sri Ram Prabhupada which we feel inspired to and which we can keep doing even if nobody asks us whether we are doing it or not. I am not talking this as defiance of authority, but I am thinking, talking of this as that we, our movement is so big and we ourselves, because of our profession, because of our situation, family situation, we may go to different places. We may not always have authority always guiding us in a very personal way.
We may not have somebody giving us instructions, following us up. So, to some extent, we need to be self-motivated, not selfishly motivated, but self-motivated. That means, we should be inspired to practise bhakti analysis.
And so, for different devotees, it may take a different amount of time. That some devotees may in 2-3 years of practise, they may say, this is what I want to do. Some devotees may in 10-15 years also, they feel, okay, now I understand what I am supposed to do.
And some devotees may also be versatile actually. But they can do many things. And so the important thing is that we are able to find a service which we can do in a competent and a comfortable way sustainably.
And ultimately, that was the essence of Varanasi. So, in the context of the Gita, when Krishna says that Arjuna, you should fight, actually, there what is happening is Arjuna is having a dharma sammoha. He is having an illusion about dharma.
He is saying that actually, you should, we should forgive. Now, why should we fight and kill our own relatives? Let us forgive them. So, Krishna tells Arjuna that forgiveness is the duty of a Brahmana.
Forgiveness is not the duty of a Kshatriya. So, if we see in 18.41-42-43, Krishna gives the characteristics of the different Varanasi. And So, he says that actually, one of the characteristics of a Brahmana is tolerance, forgiveness, peacefulness.
Tolerate. Be peaceful. But then, the next verse itself, when talking about Kshatriya, Krishna says that that not fleeing from fighting.
That means fighting. So, if you are forgiving, why will you fight? So, forgiveness is a is a individually, it is a virtue in a one-to-one relationship. But, at an official level, at an institutional level, at a governmental level, you know, those who are in authority, they may have to punish.
So, Kshatriyas, when they are in a position of power, they may have to punish. And that is required for Arjuna. So, Arjuna, he is, at the start of the Kurukshetra war, instead of acting as a Kshatriya, he is thinking, oh, acting as a Brahmana is better.
But Krishna tells Arjuna, you cannot act like this. So, Vishwanath Chakradhakur in that commentary says, in 18.59-60, he says, now you are saying you will not fight, but later when you are in the jungle and you are acting like a mendicant, and you ask for alms, and somebody doesn’t give alms to you, then your hand will go to your sword. How dare you refuse? So, a Brahmana would not do that.
But, you are a Kshatriya. So, therefore, he says that, act as a Kshatriya. So, there is a contextual application also over there, that when Krishna is saying, paradharam bhayava, so, if you are acting like a Brahmana, and then you kill someone because they don’t give alms, that is bhayava, that is very dangerous.
You have been severely culpable, karmically, for that. But, in our situations, we say that, it is vital for us to be surrendered to our authority and do whatever is required for the institution, in the initial stages of our spiritual life. And later also, if some service is vitally required, we do it.
But to sustain our spiritual life, we have to find out the service which we are comfortable doing, competently, and then we move forward accordingly. Does that answer your question? Yes. You wanted to add something? Just a quick question.
Are there any comfortable and competent words of reference? I just talked about, that is my, yeah, yeah, comfortable and competent, that is how I explain guna, karma, vibhagash. So, guna, if I have the quality for something, then I will feel comfortable doing it. If I have the quality for singing, then I will naturally be comfortable doing it.
So, guna is more of internal, karma is more of external. So, karma means that, I am also, I like to sing, I feel happy singing, and also I am singing well. So, I like to manage, and I will manage well.
Guna, karma, vibhagash. That’s what it is. So, can we continue later? I think we should.
So, thank you very much. We will have a break for around 10 minutes, and 11.5, 11.5. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.