Overcoming obstacles 3 – Let intelligence be your minister not your master – part 1

[Seminar in Alachua Learning Center, Alachua, USA]

Talk ppt

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna. So, I welcome you back for our second session. It is, we are discussing about obstacles posed by the intelligence.
So, another obstacle is that after lunch, the intelligence is not very strong. So, what I will try to do is, I will have short sessions and you can have question answers. So, maybe I will speak for 30 minutes, and then, maybe 20-30 minutes, and like that I will speak in both the sessions.
So, you can have more question answers. Now, several times in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna talks about, By offering your mind and intelligence to me, you can attain me. So, when he says this, in a general sense, we could say that the desires come from the mind.
There are two main ways in which we can get obstructed in the spiritual path. One is desire. Say, we are going towards Krishna, and then desire, maybe you can go here, maybe you can go there, maybe you can go, you take a U-turn and go back also.
So, desires, they make us, they misdirect us away from Krishna. The other factor that can stop us is doubts. So, desires, we can say, come from the mind, doubts come from the intelligence.
And, doubts make us, they may not distract us from Krishna, but they deter us from Krishna. You don’t go somewhere else away from Krishna, but just slow down in going towards Krishna, or you may even stop. And, in general, there is a difference, another difference between desires and doubts is that, if you understand even a little philosophy, then we know that desires, especially noble desires, lust, anger, greed, we know that they are, they are unhealthy.
The desires are undesirable. So, when the desires come, we actually, when desires start troubling us, because we start feeling, we start actually feeling, I am powerless, I can’t overcome these desires. And, if the desires may trouble us, we actually may become more dependent on Krishna to back in the desires.
Because we feel, oh, I am so conditioned that I cannot overcome these desires. But, in contrast, when doubts come, because doubts come from the intelligence, doubts often create a sense of superiority. These are all not so intelligent, that’s why they don’t get doubts.
I am intelligent. They are naive. They are gullible.
These are naive things. And, I am intelligent, so I am actually right. And they are not thoughtful enough to get the kind of doubts I am getting.
So, that way, doubts can actually create a more serious obstacle. Because rather than feeling the need for Krishna, we can feel the need for Krishna when we get doubts, but we may feel that, actually, I am more intelligent. And, that way, doubts can pose a more serious obstacle also.
At the same time, just telling a person who has doubts, why do you doubt so much? That is not a solution at all. Because, if a person is of an intellectual nature, the nature of being intellectual means that questions will come. And questions will come.
Doubts will come. So, we have to have a proper method, proper approach for dealing with doubts. If somebody is having doubts and telling that person, Amshaya Atma Vinashyati, the doubting soul will go to hell.
Probably they will say, you only go to hell. You know, I don’t care for your process. So, we need to have a proper forum for addressing doubts.
And in general, if we are intellectual, and if some other devotees are not that intellectual, then it is best not to voice our intellectual doubts among others, who are not intellectual. They will not even understand where we are coming from. They will start feeling, why do you doubt so much? But it’s not that I choose to doubt.
The doubts automatically come. So, we need like-minded devotees who can understand us and who can help address our doubts. So, in the Bhaktira Samasindhu, it is said that we need Sajjatiya Asha Bhakti Samla.
That means association of devotees who have the same category of desires that we have. Sajjatiya Asha. Similar desires, like-minded, as Bhaktivinoda Thakur says.
So, like-minded, here the word mind is used not in the sense which we discussed mind earlier. Mind basically means the way we think. So, if we have certain doubts which come from our intelligence, we need to associate it like-minded intellectual devotees and get the answers to those questions.
So, when I started my website, The Spiritual Scientist, when I was in India, when I came, joined Krishna Consciousness, I had literally hundreds of questions. So, I travelled with a senior devotee from Pune to Mumbai. I had like one book with 12 pages filled with questions.
In a whole trip I was asking questions, while coming back I was asking questions. And at that time I was doing Bhakti Shastri, learning Bhakti Shastri and Purnachandra Maharaj. So, initially when I asked him a lot of questions, he answered my questions and he said that, he said, Chaitanya Charan is Prashna Sagar.
It’s an ocean of questions. But then after some time I kept asking him questions. He told me that, Chaitanya Charan, you are an engineer.
You have to understand that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is not an engineering object to be analysed. So, then he did the Bhakti Shastri course. First he did about six chapters of the Gita.
And then he came back after one year and then he did another six chapters. So, then just before he started next course, I told him, he was not a Sanyasi at that time. I troubled you a lot with questions last time.
I would trouble you so much. He said, I know. Then what do you mean? He said that, I am sure that one year of Bhakti practise will have softened your heart.
I said, no. So, what happens is that initially, at least what I observed myself, initially a lot of questions. But over a period of time, he started understanding which questions are really important.
Because curiosity itself can go on endlessly. And then, softening of heart simply means that I also understand. It can have many meanings.
But at least for the way it worked out for me is, okay, which questions are really important for me? And I focused on those questions and then I enquired on different devotees and I got answers. So, then I started the spiritual scientist website where when I was preaching in India, one of my main services was to have, to go to the youth preaching and youth programmes and answer questions. The students would have many different kinds of questions.
And then, I started the online website. So, Dev Amrit Maharaj, I used to consult him when I had questions. So, he told me that he had a vision that we could have one website where we could, it could be like a combined website for all devotee scholars could come.
We could have one person specialist in Gaudiya Vaishnavism, another specialist in science and spirituality, another specialist in Ramayana, another specialist in Mahabharata. And whoever has questions, they can come over there. And then the question can be answered by the particular expert over there.
So, it will be wonderful if we have that. But to coordinate all these people, all the experts in various fields is not easy. It does not happen that every devotee is trying that.
So, there is a need for devotees who have questions to have their questions answered. And the point is that not everybody may have those questions. But those who have those questions, there has to be a forum to answer those questions.
So, that means the capacity to doubt, it can be both a virtue and a problem. So, the same thing wisdom means to me. So, our topic was reason should be our minister, not our master.
Reason is basically, there is a difference between reason and intelligence. But without getting into technicality, the reason is the rational faculty of the intelligence. That is something which we take guidance from.
But we don’t let our bhakti be determined by reason alone. Why is that? So, doubt is a natural function of the intelligence. In the Bhagavatam, third canto, when there is analysis of the material elements, at that time the characteristics of intelligence are described.
doubt is considered to be a characteristic of the intelligence. But doubt is the first characteristic. And Prabhupada explains how the doubting faculty can be applied for philosophical purpose.
He says that. Normally we identify with the body. But then I get, you know, the body keeps changing, but I remain the same.
So, who is it that is the same? So, in this way we can doubt what the conventional knowledge that we get from the materialistic world. And so, there are so many advertisements. Purchase this and you will be happy, happy.
You will get this and you will be happy. So, we, to some extent to practise bhakti, we have to learn to doubt the promises of materialistic culture. If we don’t have a strong doubting faculty, we just believe, you do this, you will become happy, you do this, you will become happy, you do this, you will become happy.
And unless a person has the capacity to doubt, we will just uncritically fall for the promises of materialistic culture. So, doubting is valuable. It is only when we start doubting material life that we will enquire about spiritual life.
My material life, I am a materialistic way of living. So, doubt has its value. In fact, it is vital.
But, doubt is not the only function of the intelligence. Because doubt can only tell us what is wrong. Doubt can never tell us what is right.
If I doubt, So, I can always, if somebody is very intellectual, any argument, any philosophy that we present to them, they can always find faults with that. But then, if we keep doubting, what is the end of it? Doubts, so, learning by doubting is like driving by braking. If I brake my car, I can’t drive, I won’t get anywhere.
So, learning by doubting alone, while driving, sometimes I have to press my brake, that is required. But if the brake is the only thing I press, I will never get anywhere. So, similarly, while learning, doubting is important.
But if doubting is the only thing I do, then I will never move forward, I will never learn anything. So, there are times when we need to doubt and there are times we need to give the benefit of doubt. Give the benefit of doubt means, yes, this doesn’t make sense to me right now, but there are so many intelligent people who are doing this.
So many intelligent saints and acharyas in the past have accepted this. Even if I don’t understand it, let me move on. So, benefit of doubt means, somewhere, in many sports, they have the idea of concept of benefit of doubt.
If a player is out or not out, we can’t decide, then we give the benefit of doubt. So, like that, in some situations, we may have to just let go of the doubt and move forward in our life. So, I will come to that.
Now, why is, another reason why especially doubting doesn’t lead to knowledge about Krishna is that Krishna, by his very definition, is supreme. Jiva Goswami in his Shandarbha talks about the concept of Achintattva. Achintattva is inconceivability.
And he says that, when we say that God is supreme, his supremacy means that he is superior to the intelligence also. It means, because he is superior to the intelligence, he cannot be understood by the intelligence alone. So, God’s supremacy implies his inconceivability, that he is someone who will be beyond our intelligence.
So, we can use our intelligence to serve him, but not to conquer him. So, conquering him means, you know, I understand everything with my intelligence. Some people become very good at, some people are very good at language.
So, any word you give them, they can tell you what is the meaning of that word. Some people are very good at mathematics. Any numbers you tell them to multiply, they can multiply it.
Some people are very good at chess. Any situation, they can move to the winning situation. They become masters at that.
With respect to Krishna, we can never become the master. So, he says that to understand Krishna, stand under Krishna. You have to stand under Krishna.
You cannot stand above Krishna and judge Krishna. We have to actually put ourselves in submissive position below Krishna and learn from him. So, in principle, when we start practising bhakti, we understand that there are some things which I may not be able to understand.
And that is because Krishna is supreme. Krishna is supreme means that he is superior to my intelligence. And therefore, the achintattva is when seen this way, not a sign of lack of coherence.
When somebody speaks something which doesn’t make sense, we may say that this person is not coherent. But Krishna’s achintattva, Krishna’s inconceivability is not a sign of incoherence. It is actually a proof of transcendence.
That he is beyond us. In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna talks about this 9.4 and 5, this theme. He says, first he says, maya tatam idam sarvam jagad avyakta-murti na mat-sthani sarva-bhaktaninacaham teshva-vastitah So, he is saying that I pervade the whole world.
maya tatam idam sarvam jagad avyakta-murti This actually refers to the Brahman aspect, you could say. mat-sthani sarva-bhaktaninacaham All living beings are situated in me. This refers to the Paramatma aspect.
Paramatma sustains all of existence. mat-sthani sarva-bhaktaninacaham teshva-vastitah But I am not situated in you. This refers to the Bhagavan aspect.
He is situated beyond this material world. Now Krishna says, mat-sthani sarva-bhaktaninacaham 9.4, C, third line, C. But right in 9.5, A, first line of 9.5, it says, na cha-mat-sthani bhootaani He says, no, all living beings are not situated in me. Normally, if we say something, and the next time we say, it’s not like that.
And we say, sorry, I made a mistake, I apologise, it was slip of tongue, I say. But actually, Krishna says, na cha-mat-sthani bhootaani pashyame yogam aishwaram Just see how wonderful my yoga-aishwara is. So, there is no embarrassment from Krishna, oh, I contradicted myself.
There is a mood of celebration over there. Just see how my aishwarya, my opulence is inconceivable. So, now, of course, this does not mean that it cannot be understood.
How is it that all living beings are sustained in Krishna, or rather, all of existence sustained in Krishna, and all of existence not sustained in Krishna. So, Prabhupada explains that when Krishna sustains everyone, Krishna is not burdened by them. It’s like Atlas is burdened.
The imagery is there of Atlas, carries the whole earth and is burdened by it. Krishna is not burdened by that. So, an explanation can be given, but the point is, even if it is contradictory, the contradiction is not actually a contradiction.
There is a contradiction, and there is something called a paradox. Paradox means something which appears contradictory, but there is a deeper truth over there, which can be understood through more philosophical, more deeper analysis. So, some examples of paradoxes are that, say, if a teacher is assessing some student’s papers, the least corrected papers are the most correct.
The least corrected papers. The least number of red marks are there in the paper. They are the most correct.
It’s true. First is the least correct, most correct. How does it go together? We think about it, there is a deeper truth over there.
So, there is deeper truth, but it may take sometimes time to understand that truth. So, moving onwards. Now, this is often a question which comes up in devotee circles.
When you are practising bhakti, are we meant to surrender the intelligence, or are we meant to surrender with the intelligence? Means, are we meant to surrender using our intelligence, or is it that we just surrender the intelligence only? Krishna, whatever you tell me, you do. Whatever you tell me, I will do that. If we see the mood of the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna actually speaks the whole Gita, and then, in 18.63, when he is concluding, he says, Vimrishshaita dashe nishena, yadhe chachittha kuru, Vimrishshaita.
Now, deliberate deeply. And then you decide what you want to do. So, the Gita reveals the vision of a God, of God who respects human intelligence, and respects human independence.
Krishna is not telling, although Krishna is God, in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna’s mood is not that, I am God, yad ho gedi. That is not the mood that Krishna uses with Arjuna. Krishna very intelligently presents to Arjuna, and then asks him to, thereafter, choose.
So, Vimrishshaita dashe nishena. So, he uses his intelligence. Use your intelligence to understand what I am saying, and then you decide.
And what does Arjuna say? Karishye vachanam tava. I will do your will. So, this means that Arjuna surrenders to Krishna with his intelligence.
So, Sri Prabhupada, he would say that when we accept a spiritual master, the spiritual master tests the sincerity of the disciple, and the disciple also tests whether the spiritual master is bona fide. So, there is intelligence involved. At the same time, there are some times when some things may not make sense with our intelligence.
So, at that time, we surrender the intelligence also. So, for example, Krishna, when he is speaking the Bhagavad Gita, he tells Arjuna, just look. He appeals to Krishna’s, Arjuna’s intelligence.
But later on, the Kurukshetra war is going on, you know, on the 14th day. At that time, Arjuna had taken a vow that I will kill the person responsible for the death of Abhimanyu, that is Jayadratha, by sunset. Or otherwise, I will enter fire.
At that time, Arjuna fought to his full best, and he came very close to Jayadratha. Actually, Drona had arranged the full army in such a way that Jayadratha was right behind him. The military formation was several men’s, and Arjuna had to penetrate through it all.
A superhuman effort, Arjuna penetrated. And finally, he could see Jayadratha’s chariot standing, his flag. And now I have reached.
And at that time, Arjuna’s attack was so fierce that Duryodhana had got shattered. Following Arjuna, Bhima had also come. And Bhima, on that one day, he destroyed 30 of Duryodhana’s brothers.
So, Duryodhana was shattered. What happened? He says, my whole army, it cannot stop these two brothers. What is the use of fighting? I was just feeling so discouraged.
At that time, it is said in the Bhavarat, Duryodhana was holding his head in hands. He started thinking, maybe Krishna is really God. If my whole army cannot stop, how is it possible? Only Krishna must be God.
But then, for one who wants to doubt, the intelligence will always find wrong reason to doubt. If Krishna was God, then how could we have killed Abhimanyu yesterday? Krishna, Arjuna is dear to Krishna and Abhimanyu is dear to Arjuna. So, the fact we were able to kill Abhimanyu means Krishna is not God.
And therefore, we can fight and we can win. And then, look, he saw that Arjuna is coming very close to Jayadratha. But he also saw that that the sun is coming very close to the horizon.
And then, he immediately deployed. He thought, yesterday we had got six warriors to fell Abhimanyu. We will have Abhimanyu’s father.
We will have eight warriors. And he had eight warriors attack Arjuna. So, he had Drona and Kripa from the front.
He had Karna and Shalya from one side. He had Ashwathama and I think Ashwathama and one more warrior from the other side. And then he said, Duryodhana and Dushasana, both of them came from behind.
And all eight of them attacked Arjuna suddenly. And Arjuna was just surrounded by a cloud of arrows from all sides. He was whirling around and fighting against, resisting all the arrows.
But Arjuna couldn’t even move, couldn’t even see ahead. And in the distance, he knew, in the back of his mind, that the horizon, that the sun is going down. And he started despairing.
As he started despairing, at that time, Krishna realised, Now, I have to do something to help my brother. Arjuna was being so close, so far. So, Krishna immediately called his Sudarshan Chakra.
And his fiery disc appeared in his hand and just discharged it towards the sun. And it covered the sun. And as twilight seemed to spread over the battleground, immediately the Kauravas started celebrating.
Yes, Arjuna is going to die. And Jayadrath, till then, had been hiding behind everybody. Suddenly, he emerged.
He said, Oh Arjuna, you are going to kill me? Now, you are going to die. And Arjuna was shattered. Arjuna put down his bow.
At that time, Krishna told Arjuna, Arjuna, there is still time. He said, raise your bow and put the Brahmastra on it. And he said, point it towards Jayadrath and shoot.
At that time, Arjuna did not ask Krishna, Hey, but the sun has set, how can we fight? There must be, something must be up. He said, surrender the intelligence. Surrender the intelligence.
This is what Krishna wants me to do? I will do it. And just as he was about to shoot the arrow, Krishna revealed the secret. What did he do? He said, he removed the Chakra.
And he said, there is the sun and there is Jayadrath. And then Arjuna shot, right in front of everyone’s eyes, the Kauravas just left watching. He lopped off Jayadrath’s head.
So, in some situations, we may have to surrender the intelligence itself. That, actually, I don’t know what is happening, but some plan may be there over here. So, especially in our life, when we face adversities that don’t make sense, then we just have to surrender, Krishna, I don’t know what is happening, I am your servant, I will keep serving you, no matter what happens.
Actually, Prabhupada writes in the Paripour, that devotees may get perplexed, but they are never discouraged. Perplexed means, I don’t know what to do. The situation has come, what should I do now? We get perplexed.
But, devotees are never discouraged. Discouraged means, I don’t feel like doing anything. No, I always want to serve Krishna.
Sometimes, I may not know how to serve Krishna. So, at that time, I surrender the intelligence, Krishna, I don’t know what is happening, why it is happening, what I am supposed to do. I just keep taking one step forward.
Sometimes, our life’s path will be clear for us. Now, I am here, and this is how I am going to do this, I am going to do this, I am going to do this, and we move onwards. Sometimes, the life’s path is well lit and clear for us.
Sometimes, this sudden darkness comes up. Life’s path gets dark. We don’t know what to do.
At that time, if we try to use our intelligence to analyse, why is this happening, what should I do, why, why, why, we may get just too caught up. At that time, this was Krishna, I am your servant, how can I serve? That service attitude will become like a flashlight. It may not show us the full road, but it will show us one step ahead.
Okay, in this situation, what can I do? Yeah, I can chant, I can pray, my mind becomes calm, maybe I can do this, I can try this also, I can try this. So, as our mind calms down by the connection with Krishna, we will see options opening for us. So, normally, we use our intelligence while serving Krishna.
But there are times, when we may just have to serve Krishna whatever way we can. Even when our intelligence things don’t make sense. And over a period of time, it’s like power has gone off, so I am just using my flashlight, I can see only a few steps ahead of me.
But after some time, the power comes back and then I can see the clear path ahead. So, we will all face adversities in our life when what happens doesn’t make sense. Not just what happens, the way people behave doesn’t make sense, the way sometimes our own body, we may get a disease for no reason, things don’t make sense at times.
So, we just keep moving forward. Normally, we use our intelligence to serve Krishna, but sometimes when the intelligence doesn’t help us making sense of things, we still keep serving Krishna. And gradually, things will start making sense.
So, with respect to the practise of Bhakti, we do both. We surrender the intelligence at times and usually we surrender with intelligence. Now, with respect to broad philosophy.
Okay, let me come back to this later. Any questions about this till now? Thanks very much. He cites a quote from Prabhupada.
It’s a letter that Prabhupada sent to Bala Bhante when he was a temple president in Atlanta. And he describes how the move that Bala Bhante should have. He should shoot for Naino.
It basically means try to do the next to the impossible. And he said, in this way, take the protection from Krishna and move ahead. So, sometimes, you were bringing a point up.
Sometimes it doesn’t make so much sense that the intelligence, what it appears that Krishna wants out of us. And that appearance may come as a result of an internal reciprocation. In other words, he may be prompting us with higher taste, that this is what I want.
You know, he’s trying to make sense of reciprocating like that. So, but then, you know, Prabhupada was able to do something like that. Earlier on, you were mentioning how we should be very rational in our strategic planning.
What would make sense? But then, we get, this is a pretty strong statement that Prabhupada had. He wanted, not just Bala Bhante, but most devotees to shoot for the Naino. That was a big part of his mood of expanding Krishna consciousness.
So, I guess the question I have, I’m bringing this up, kind of to stir things up. But my question is, how do we know when, you know, if that’s the move that you’re trying to take? And then it just seems like, I mean, you look at Prabhupada’s his trajectory. Big of devotees, you know, 40 years struggling alone in the wilderness and comes to America.
He had so many problems initially, but then he persevered. And he had this confidence. And there was a very clear instruction that he got.
We may not have such clear instructions. Like, you know, just bam. Now, this is what I want you to do, if I keep a dental surgery top floor.
Prabhupada’s son, he came to Prabhupada in the kitchen and got a Dhammadhar, made it really clear that he wanted him to go to the West. I said, if I keep a dental surgery top floor, what do you want him to do? So, Prabhupada often wanted to shoot, wanted his disciples to shoot the rhino and do things which are almost impossible. So, how do we balance that with, say, being rational or realistic, using our intelligence about doing things? My understanding is that actually Prabhupada, he had extraordinary vision.
Still, his steps were always very tangible and concrete. Now, what he did, Nilambutra said that Swami’s head was in the clouds, but his feet were firmly on the ground. Prabhupada actually took years in thinking of going to America for preaching.
It was a big dream. But then Prabhupada was doing very practical things, you know, asking for some funds, asking for some support, went to America and started small. Prabhupada also said, in like a needle, out like a flow.
See, Prabhupada said something like that. So, now, in like a needle, as you know, I am beginning small. So, yes, it is good to have a big vision.
But then, the vision, vision should be a spur for action, not a substitute for action. Sometimes I just dream, I’ll do this, I’ll do that, I’ll do that, but then we actually do nothing. That becomes a problem.
So, if we have clear plan, I’ll do this, this, this, this. It’s a spur for action. And we take steps forward, if Krishna wants something, spectacular will happen.
Krishna doesn’t, that’s not Krishna’s will. Still, we will have done our service. So, we have to have practical steps about what we are going to do.
It’s all in the head alone. It’s important to have a vision, but also we need to have some practical steps about how we are going to do it. And we have to also see that Prabhupada was also very pragmatic.
He was very visionary, but then he was quite pragmatic in terms of how he was going to implement the vision. So, as you rightly said, that Prabhupada tried so many different things. He tried the League of Devotees in India.
He tried working with his Godbrothers. He tried the student back to Godhead. So, anything that he did, when they didn’t work, so Prabhupada stopped them and tried something else.
there is, there is the, there is the principle of service and there is a form of service. The principle that I am a servant of Krishna and I am meant to serve Krishna. The principle that Vashishtha Prabhupada, Bhakti Sahaja Raghunanda’s instruction that you should preach.
Prabhupada stuck to the principle, kya kaam vatni. But with respect to the form, Prabhupada was quite flexible. This didn’t work out, try this.
This one didn’t work out, try that. So, Prabhupada he came to America. He, he, he focused on making people into devotees who go into the temples.
But when he went to India, he didn’t use that strategy at all. Not many people actually took up the strategy. So, Prabhupada actually went to lot of devotee’s houses, lot of Hindu, pious Hindu’s houses and encouraged them to provide funds and encouraged them to become life members.
Now, in one sense, life members was actually, they had no commitment to practise it. Prabhupada wanted them eventually to come to that level. So, whereas, here in America, Prabhupada was like, you have to come inside and become an insider member of ISKCON.
There it was, you can be wherever you are, but contribute in something. So, in manifesting that vision of preaching, Prabhupada was actually quite pragmatic in how to implement it. So, with respect to us, since we don’t have any particular instruction about what we are to do in our life.
So, we may have to take something from, some instruction from Prabhupada’s words, from our spiritual guide’s words. And then, we have to see how well we can work it. So, sometimes, we become too attached to service in a particular form.
Say, I am preaching here, but then, things are not working out yet, I may go somewhere else and preach. And, when to persevere in the same thing, and when to change over to something else. That’s not an easy decision to do.
Which form to persevere in, or when to focus on the principle, but change the form of what service I am doing. That we may have to consult others, introspect, pray, and then decide. But, certainly, vision is important.
At the same time, practical steps for execution are also required. So, when both are there, then gradually, take one step forward, one step forward. Eventually, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step itself.
So, like that, Prabhupada did wonderful things and, with respect to intelligence, we could say, specifically, the ultimate goal may seem to be impossible as per the intelligence. But, the practical steps are very much within the reach of the intelligence. Okay, right now I am here, Prabhupada is in India, okay, let me go and meet this devotee.
Let me go and meet that person. Let me do this, let me do that. So, our understanding is, going back to the story of that sparrow and the Garuda, the sparrow whose eggs had been taken by the ocean.
So, the sparrow was doing what was in her capacity. And then, eventually, Garuda came and did what was beyond her capacity, beyond the sparrow’s capacity. So, if we are to do something wonderful for Krishna, we may need help from sources which are not within our capacity.
But first, we have to also do what is in our capacity. So, our intelligence, the role of our intelligence would be in taking the steps which are in our capacity and doing them consistently. And our faith, in something which is beyond our intelligence, that is that Krishna will help.
When things don’t work out for me. So, if we depend only on Krishna, and we don’t do anything practical, ourselves, then that will become passive. On the other hand, if we only are caught in the practical and don’t think about the hand of Krishna, then we feel there are so many problems, I just can’t do this, let me give it up.
So, there is both the practical and the transcendental which work together. But when the transcendental intervenes, we can’t say. So, Prabhupada had to keep doing the practical small, small, small things, which many of them didn’t work for almost 30-40 years.
And then Krishna executed a miraculous intervention. And then wonderful things happened. Along these lines, one quick point.
It seems that when we are doing something that is pleasing to Krishna, we know because he reciprocates. He takes us to a higher place. But this seems to be a significant guide also, knowing whether we are on track or not.
If we are doing a good service, and we get to spend in reciprocation, even though externally it may not be so successful, but for surveying, can’t we understand this is what Krishna wants out of it? Yeah, definitely. You say we are doing a service and we get taste in it, even if we don’t get a result, then that taste in the service is Krishna’s reciprocation. Can we see that as an implication that Krishna wants us to do this? Yes, definitely.
Because in this world, results will come sometimes, results will not come sometimes. So we have to consistently serve Krishna. So if we are getting taste in the service, then that is what we keep doing for Krishna.
And that way we also show Krishna that we are not attached to the results. We are doing it for his pleasure. We want the results for his pleasure, but he can bring them whenever he wants.
So definitely our funding a service, which we can do irrespective of how much results come out, that is a great fortune if we have that. If we find that this is what I can do, I keep doing it. Somebody wants to have taste for kirtan, they can just spend hours singing.
Somebody wants to study Shastra, they can just go on doing Shastra for hours and hours. Somebody wants to study books, they can just go hours and hours, weeks and years. So if you can get a service, where just the service itself gives us a taste, it is a great fortune.
And in due course results will come. But then the results will be more a vindicator for the world, even not necessarily the vindicator for us. As far as the reciprocation is there, the taste is there, we will move onwards.
But for the world, yes, the service will be going on. Wonderful. The world may also recognise that.
Is that the question? Yes. Yes, sir. I wanted to get some advice from you.
Sometimes I find it challenging when there are big debates, big devotees or conflicts, how to use our intelligence without getting frustrated, or finding people with big issues. Sometimes there are debates or conflicts between devotees. So how can we, what can we do in such a situation? There are, because all of us are individuals, so even as devotees, we with our individual intelligence will have different inspiration about how we can serve Krishna.
And in bhakti there are principles and there are preferences. So principle is, we have to chant Hare Krishna. Now some devotees may sit and chant, some devotees may walk and chant, some devotees may stand and chant.
These are preferences. So similarly we have to study Shastra, that’s the principle. Now some devotees may study with hard copy book, some devotees may study with soft copy, some devotees may underline, some devotees may say, I cannot mark the Bhagavad Gita.
This is a preference. So in some cases the difference between principle and preference is relatively easy to understand. So usually whenever there are strong debates between devotees, it is because the preferences are made into principles.
No devotee is going to say that actually God is impersonal. No devotee is going to preach Mayavada. No devotee is going to ever speak anything anti-devotional.
So when there are conflicts between devotees, quite often it is because some issue which is really not all that important, which is a preference, that is made into principle. This is the way it has to be done. No, if it is a preference, there are different ways in which it can be done.
If we see in the history of Gaudiya Vaishnavism itself, even when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was present, Gaudiya Vaishnavism developed differently in different parts of India. When he sent devotees to, he sent Rupanand Sanatana Goswami to Vrindavan, there Rupanand Sanatana was not doing any preaching. They were in Vrindavan, they were mostly devotees, they were doing writing of Shastras and uncovering of the holy places.
There was no preaching over there. So he told them build temples. When he was in Puri, there was the king itself, there was royal patronage, so there was full scale all activities going on.
But there was already a big temple of Jagannath, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu did not tell his disciples, you have to construct another temple. In Puri, in Vrindavan, they constructed temples. If we consider in Bengal, at that time, Nawab Hussain Shah and other tyrannical rulers were there.
So there were great, empowered incarnations of the lord and other extraordinary devotees, like Advaita Acharya, Nityananda Prabhu, but Chaitanya Mahaprabhu did not tell them in Bengal to construct temples. No, because that would have been socially very difficult, socio-politically very difficult. So the point is that even at that time, there are different ways in which bhakti was practised in different places.
So in general, if there are different devotees inspired to practise bhakti in different ways, the broad understanding is that there has to be that accommodation. If somebody has been serving Krishna for 10, 20, 30, 40 years, and then they feel inspired to serve Krishna in a particular way, then even if that doesn’t make sense to me, I have to understand that they have learned something by the practise of bhakti, they have got some realisation, they have got some inspiration, and it’s not for me to judge them. So in general, unless it’s a very clear issue of principles, which generally it is not, it may be made by some people into an issue of principles, usually an issue of preference.
Somebody would not serve in a particular way, somebody would serve in a different way. So we don’t have to become very disturbed by this. Because we are all individuals, so there are going to be differences of opinion.
And because there are differences of opinion, so there are going to be conflicts. So that’s why what we should do is, if we feel strongly about a particular issue, then we may get involved in it. But if we are not feeling so strongly about an issue, then we focus on practising our bhakti.
And we’ve come here to enrich our Krishna bhakti. And other devotees, two different groups of devotees may feel, this is what I need for enriching my Krishna bhakti, other devotees may feel this is what I need for enriching my Krishna bhakti. And sometimes the two ideas may be contradictory.
So if we are in a position of authority, or if we are in a position where we have to take a decision, then we can use our body and intelligence, in consultations with devotees and take a position. But otherwise, we have to know our purpose and focus on our purpose. So everybody needs their room for practising bhakti.
And if someone tries to make ISKCON into too much of a legislative body, we are not like a police state, where we can legislate people too much. ISKCON is an inspirational organisation. And people are inspired to practise bhakti, they come and participate and practise.
Different devotees are inspired to practise in different ways. Then it will be sooner or later, different devotees will have to be given room to practise accordingly. So this is of course very general, and specific issues will have specific nuances which will have to be addressed.
But broadly speaking, three things I would say, we need not be disturbed by the presence of conflicts. Because we are individuals and we have individual inspirations about how to serve Krishna, so conflicts will be there. Second is that usually the conflicts are not about principles, they are about preferences.
And that’s why it’s not a major issue. Third is that if we feel strongly about a particular issue, then we may get involved. Otherwise, we focus on our Krishna bhakti, and we don’t let ourselves get distracted or consumed by debates.
Does that address your question? Yes or no? I’ll come to you later. I was wondering that in Chaitanya Chaitanya Amitabha, it talks about the prarabdha karma. The whole section that you explained in the last section, prarabdha phalam bhaktam kutam phalam mukham.
So the commentary of that, also in Chaitanya Chaitanya Amitabha, Bhaktivinoda Thakur also says here, prarabdha karma kogu nahi khai phala kogu dina kogu. It seems like without experience, whatever result of my previous activities that came with my birth, without experience cannot be destroyed or cannot be, even if I ignore it, it’s still there, being and being. So, because you’re bringing reference to Prabhupada, then I’m trying also to understand how to understand that.
Because Prabhupada said later that he should have joined in 1922. But during that time he also said that he could not join because he has a family, he has a job in chemical industry. And later on also he says he didn’t like his wife and he desired to have another wife.
And he almost arranged and then his father, Prabhupada said, my father was a saintly person. He said, my dear boy, that’s how Prabhupada said, my dear boy, I heard you want to get married. I suggest you don’t.
And if you don’t like your wife, that is your good fortune. That you are not a better student. That’s what Prabhupada says.
And then he said, now I realise that my father was very intelligent. That if I was attached to my wife, I would not have taken sannas and kept preaching Nishan. Because I got it from my Guru Maharaj.
Because my father guided me, so I am here now and speaking to you all. And I came to the West. So, my question is that intelligent application.
Now, you are giving philosophical insight. And I find devotional principle sometimes matching, sometimes spiritual insight is not matching the devotional principle that was told to practically do. So then in that case, it seems like if somebody is out of the path of the karma, then he says, oh, I get, yeah, okay, I have a choice.
I have a taste of the holy name. I also have a taste of a movie, watching a movie. I choose now to chant the holy name, not watching a movie.
But that’s somebody who is out with the taste. Then he can decide. But when the taste is not there, the movie, watching movie, is actually, I feel that is what I need.
And I am very comfortable about it. I don’t need, I just might buy. Because this is what Prarabdha Karma definition given.
The Prarabdha Karma is that one has to, Prarabdha Karma, kogu nahi khoi, kholo bhoga bhinako. And that’s why I find that only solution is that Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Amrita Prabhava Vaishali says, hinto he naam, tavas putti ho le. Only a holy name can actually destroy this Prarabdha, Prarabdha karma.
Until that, one has to go through this. How the intelligence can be applied when I am in, accepting the Prarabdha Karma as self, non-difference? I think I have to apply a lot of intelligence to understand the question. I am going to rephrase the question.
That, she quoted Bhaktivinoda Thakur to say that, whatever Prarabdha Karma we have, we have to go through it. And you know the example of Srila Prabhupada also having to go through a difficult family life. But then you said that Prabhupada also said that, maybe I should have given it up earlier only.
And then you give an example of, say, can we say that by my Prarabdha Karma, I am attached to watching movies and I have to watch movies. Or, now I have come out of my Prarabdha Karma, so I will just chant Hare Krishna and not watch movies. So, how do I decide? So, what exactly is the role of Prarabdha Karma? And how much can our intelligence make a difference in our choosing? That is the question we are asking.
So, what is Prarabdha Karma? So, basically the body that we get, the Karma that is already coming upon us, that is Prarabdha Karma. Prabhupada gives a simple example about how Prarabdha Karma cannot be changed. He says, if you are driving from one place to another, you have one car and somebody else has another car.
Now, your car may be not a very good car, somebody else’s car is a very good car. But your car is the car that you have. So, if you have to go on that journey, you have to go with that car only.
So, like that, all of us have different bodies. So, some of us may have a healthy body, some of us may have a sickly body, some of us may have a good-looking body, some of us may have not such a good-looking body. But this is the vehicle that we have.
Body is just simply physical, but also body and mind are also there with intellectual capacity and all those things associated with it. So, now, Prarabdha Karma primarily means, it refers to the tools or the resources that we already have, the body and the mind. The body’s capacity, the mind’s inclinations, all combined together.
That is the Prarabdha Karma. So, now, that is something which we have to go through. When Bhaktivinoda Thakur says that, essentially, if we consider his own life, Bhaktivinoda Thakur battled through a lot of sicknesses, lot of diseases he had.
He was an exalted devotee, descended on this mature world. Still, the sicknesses troubled him throughout his life. So, in a particular sense, we can say that the body which we have, we cannot change that.
So, whatever is associated with that body, that will come to us. And in that sense, that we don’t have a choice about the kind of body we have, we don’t have a choice about the kind of mind we have. In that sense, we have to live with this.
And in that sense, Prarabdha Karma is not changeable. We have to go through it. At the same time, what I do with the body and the mind, how much of it is determined by Prarabdha Karma? So, I may have a mind that is attached to watching movies.
But does that mean I have to watch movies? Or do I have the free will to detach myself from it? So, in the Mahabharata, it is said that destiny, Dhritarashtra tries to use the rationalisation of destiny. When Vidura is telling Dhritarashtra, stop Duryodhana from his terrible antagonism towards the Pandavas. Otherwise, this will break havoc in the Kuru dynasty.
So, at that time, Dhritarashtra argues saying that if it is the will of almighty destiny that our dynasty will be destroyed, then who am I, a tiny mortal, to stop the working of almighty destiny? He is trying to rationalise. So, at that time, Vidura cuts through his rationalisation. Vidura says, Okay, destiny determines the consequences of our actions, not our actions themselves.
Destiny determines the consequences of our actions. That means, a student may study very diligently, but sometimes, somehow, the student doesn’t get good marks in exam. And I have prepared very well for a job interview, and still I don’t get selected for the job.
So, the results of our actions are determined by destiny. But if the student doesn’t study only for the exam, he says, why are you not studying? That is my destiny. That is not your destiny, that is your irresponsibility.
So, yes, you can say that there is some amount of variation. Some students may be able to study for 6 hours, 8 hours, 10 hours, 15 hours. Some students may be able to study for 4 hours, 5 hours, after that they just can’t study.
But to say that I would study only, that is my destiny, that is not right. So, first of all, Prarabdha Karma refers to the resources that we have. It doesn’t refer to the way we use those resources.
We always have the free will. Now, to some extent, the scope of our free will may be limited by destiny. But free will itself is never taken away.
The scope of the free will, I can give the example of studies. Some people are of intellectual nature, so they can study for 8 hours, 10 hours, 15 hours. Some people study for 3-4 hours, enough for the day.
So, that means the scope of the free will, that may sometimes be shaped by destiny. So, we may be able to do certain amount. Some people may have a very healthy body.
They can lift 40-50 kg weight. Somebody else can lift barely 10-12 kg weight. Now, from 10-12 also somebody can improve their muscles and lift a little more weight.
And somebody from 50 cannot sink. But a person who can lift 10-12 kg cannot immediately come to 50 kg. So, we could say that our past karma, and they can limit to some extent the scope of our free will.
But our free will is never taken away. So, now with respect to applying all this to whether we renounce the world or we don’t renounce the world. Now, first of all, Prabhupada’s statements and Prabhupada’s actions, we can see at multiple levels.
At one level we can see it is just love. Everything that happened in Prabhupada’s life was orchestrated by Krishna so that in extraordinary way his glory could be manifested. Prabhupada’s glory could be manifested to the world.
Another way we understand it is that bhakti or the sincerity or the expertise of a bhakta is to translate every situation into a situation favourable for Krishna bhakti. Means whatever situation I am in, I translate it, I make it out. How can I make this favourable for Krishna bhakti? So, we see this repeatedly in the Bhagavatam, where Bali Maharaj is cursed and he loses everything.
And he says, Oh my lord, how merciful you are to me. I was attached and you have taken everything away from me so that I have nothing but you now. So, but this does not necessarily mean that the unfavourable circumstance is necessary for bhakti.
Or that, that unfavourable circumstance itself leads to bhakti. Sometimes we may hear some devotees, they get cancer and then they become very serious about bhakti. And you feel, I am not serious about my chanting, I am not serious about bhakti.
So, maybe I should pray to Krishna, Krishna give me cancer. Then I will also become serious about bhakti. Well, cancer is not the producer of bhakti.
So, yes, it is in that cancer, somehow those devotees, they took shelter of Krishna, Krishna and Krishna’s devotees were merciful and that person took up, that’s wonderful. So, the expertise of a devotee is that, even a devotee can make an unfavourable situation favourable for the practise of bhakti. But that does not mean that unfavourable situation itself is essential or even desirable.
So, for example, when we come to one’s life partner. Now, yes, if somebody has unfavourable life partner, that may help them to become detached from material life and become attached to Krishna. But that’s not necessary.
If somebody has a favourable life partner, that can also be a great blessing in one’s practise of bhakti. So, whatever situation we are in, we have to use our intelligence to see how I can make it favourable for the practise of Krishna. But that’s not that any particular material situation, even if it is unfavourable, we say it is good.
Not like that. So, it’s good to have, it’s good to have, if we have favourable situations, if somebody has good health, if somebody has a compatible family situation, then they are helpful in the practise of bhakti. So, our expertise, by our prarabdha karma, we may get unfavourable situations.
But even within that, we can try to practise bhakti. And that is our expertise, that is our intelligence, that is our free will. Now, to what extent we can use our free will in that situation, that will depend on the association we have.
The association gives inspiration, the association gives guidance, and then we can move forward towards Krishna. So, it’s not that the prarabdha karma determines the full, it doesn’t control our free will fully. It may control the scope of the free will.
So, yes, for example, to conclude with this, we have Rupa and Sanatana Goswami, when they were under the Mughal rule, not the Mughal, the Muslim rule, at that time, they had to convert to Islam, they had to adopt the externals of Islam. They had a beard and they had a pure Islamic cap. It’s not mentioned whether they would go to a mosque and offer namaz and do other Muslim activities or not.
At least I have not heard about it. But basically, externally they had adopted the role of a Muslim. Internally or privately, they created their Gupta Vrindavan and they were doing their bhakti.
So, to some extent they were circumscribed, they were limited by the circumstances, but within that, they expertly created their room for practising bhakti. So, rather than getting too much into the analysis of, into the philosophical analysis of what is controlled by past karma and what is not controlled by past karma, we can focus on what can I do to serve Krishna right now. And as we keep taking steps forward, one step, one step, one step, soon we will find that maybe our circumstances change and we get more and more opportunity to practise Krishna bhakti.
So, Krishna, he sees primarily how much we are offering our heart to him. So, our externals are meant to be an expression of our heart. Sometimes the externals are not there, we just offer our heart to him and Krishna accepts that also.
So, the prarabdha karma does limit us in terms of the resources that we have, but it doesn’t completely control our freedom. So, by using whatever free will we have to try to serve Krishna, gradually we go closer to Krishna and Krishna may arrange favourable circumstances for us to move towards him also. Is the answer your question? So, thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. Some of you have questions, we will have after the next session. We will take a break for 10 minutes and then we will start right after that.