Understanding attachment detachment commitment 2 – Detachment is not hardheartedness – it is levelheadedness

[Evening program at Atlanta, USA]

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Thank you very much for coming here today evening. I seek your blessings so that I can speak something in the service of Shri Prabhupada.
Today I’ll speak on the topic of detachment is not hard-heartedness. It is level-headedness. Yesterday I spoke on how frustration is not renunciation.
The essential theme was how we live in a culture of aversion to commitment where people want to keep all options for material enjoyment open. And then they rationalize that their aversion to commitment is detachment. Students who don’t want to study for their exams.
Family members who don’t want to take up responsibility in family. Or it may be in our work we don’t want to take up responsibility. So that is just like frustration and renunciation externally look similar.
But they are very different. A person would be fasting because of wanting to advance spiritually. Another person is fasting because their stomach is upset.
Both are fasting but it’s very different. So to decide the nature of whether a thing is right or wrong we discuss three criteria. You remember that? Intent, intent and consequence.
So why am I doing something? That is one factor which determines whether it is right or wrong. What exactly am I doing? And what is the result of that? So in content, renunciation and frustration may look similar. But in intent and consequence they will be very different.
And the process of bhakti involves commitment. And we discussed that at one level material and spiritual can be seen as opposite. I have to give up the material for the spiritual.
The separation of the material and spiritual should be done so that we give due time for spiritual. But at another level material and spiritual can also be continuous in the sense that they can all help us to grow in selflessness. Every relationship, every commitment, whether it is material or spiritual, it forces us to fight against our mind.
And fighting against our mind means that we develop the discipline which will help us in our spiritual life also. So attachment and detachment, they can both be two sides of the same coin of self-centeredness. And bhakti is about selflessness.
So every commitment can help us to move from self-centeredness to selflessness. And today we will discuss about what exactly is attachment and what is detachment. All of us have an emotional side and a rational side.
The emotional side is what feels. The rational side is what thinks, is what analyzes. And some people may be more emotional and some people may be more rational.
But both these faculties are required for a proper functioning in life. If a person is only emotional and not rational, then they just become controlled. Somebody’s car CBA6030 I think it’s a Chevrolet.
Keep this here. Why are you holding it throughout? You can keep it here. You don’t have to hold it like this so long.
So we were discussing about how the emotional and the rational faculties all of us have. And it is not that when we are to say that we are to be detached or we are not to be attached, that doesn’t mean that we have to have no emotions. Shri Prabhupada, in the section of the 13th chapter, 13.8 to 12, he talks about his concept, he says, affection for one’s family members is natural.
And that is not to be given up. But attachment essentially means that our emotions control our decisions. So I’ll give a simple example of a mother and a child.
That the mother naturally has affection for the child. And there are very deep emotions which a mother has for the child. But at the same time, the child starts saying, I want to go and play in the middle of the street.
And if you don’t let me play, I’m going to cry. And the mother says, I cannot tolerate my child crying. Therefore, let him go and play in the middle of the street.
Now the mother won’t do that. Although she knows if she stops the child, the child may cry. And she doesn’t like to see her child crying.
So the emotions are naturally there. But she doesn’t let the emotions control the decisions. So she knows that, okay, there is a dangerous thing to do.
She uses her intelligence. So when we are attached to someone, the whole criteria for our decision making is I cannot tolerate the displeasure, the pain, the distress of this person. But sometimes some distress is just unavoidable in life.
So if we consider the Mahabharata example of Duryodhana and Dhritarashtra, Dhritarashtra was attached to Duryodhana. And that attachment meant that whatever scheme Duryodhana came up with, Dhritarashtra just could not say no. So the inability to say no in a relationship is often a good sign of attachment.
It’s not that all the time you should give a signal no to other people. It’s not like that. Every time somebody asks something, I say no.
That proves I am detached. It’s not like that. But there are times when the other person, what they are requesting is not really good for them.
So when Duryodhana started planning that we will, he said, we will send the Kauravas, Pandavas to Anavartha. And we’ll have them in a house of fire and we’ll burn them. Dhritarashtra should have put his foot down at that time.
But he could not say no to Duryodhana. And so attachment means we just, whatever the other person says, we cannot say no to them, even if that thing is harmful for them. So the emotions determine the whole decisions.
And sometimes you may say that actually if you become detached, we’ll become hard-hearted. So, actually it is not necessarily like that. Sometimes attachment can make us hard-hearted.
What happens with attachment is, when we are attached, we can think of emotions only in relationship with the object of our attachment. And with respect to everything else, we become utterly heartless. We become hard-hearted.
So, here we have Dhritarashtra caring so much for the emotions of Duryodhana. And he doesn’t care at all for Yudhishthira, for the Pandavas. They are going to be burnt alive.
And they are his nephews. He is like a father figure for them. So, he has no emotions over there.
So, it is not attachment, it is not detachment, it is attachment that can make us hard-hearted. So, in Soviet Russia, USSR, previously there was communism. So, at that time, they had this anecdote about the plight of people over there.
People would be mad for vodka. And because everything was in short supply before communism collapsed. So, the price of vodka would keep going up and up and up.
Vodka is the Russian wine. So, there is an incident that is described by one historian of Russia. He said, in a family, the man is a drunkard.
And the price of vodka has gone up. So, the small child asks the father. The parents are discussing, you know, we don’t have enough money and all prices are going up.
Vodka price has gone up. So, then the child is asking the father, will you drink less now? And the father says, no. You will eat less.
So, the attachment can make a person so dead-end that for the sake of one’s drinking, one is ready to even cause one’s loved ones to starve. So, this is the nature of attachment. When we become attached to something, that thing becomes, gains control over us.
And we may understand other things are important, intellectually. But we just can’t act on it. we have an emotional side, we have a rational side.
But when we are attached, it is like, our emotional side becomes like a big, wild elephant. And the rational side is supposed to be like the mahout, the rider on the elephant who is meant to control the elephant. But, when we are attached, like that mahout, the rider on the elephant, the rider usually uses a gourd.
Gourd is a sharp pointed object by which the elephant is controlled. But suppose, the elephant rider just loses the gourd. The gourd falls off.
And now, the elephant is just running here, there and the rider is just watching, going for a ride. Most of the time it is an unwilling ride. It’s a dangerous ride.
So, when we are attached, our rational faculty becomes like this helpless rider. And our emotional faculty becomes like a wild elephant. And we just get caught, just going here, going there, doing this, doing that, based on whatever object we are attached to.
So, attachment is not just damaging from a spiritual perspective. It can be actually damaging even from a material perspective. When people are attached, they just become completely irrational about their actions.
And one thing becomes everything for them. This is the thing which I want and all my emotions get concentrated only in that. And they can’t think about anything else.
There is a story of a doctor, there was an India-Pakistan cricket match and the doctor was a surgeon and the doctor was doing surgery. And, you know, he was doing surgery but he was looking at the cricket score throughout. So, surgery is a life and death matter.
But what happens when one is captivated? Intellectual doctor understands, I am doing terrible thing, I am playing with somebody’s life. But, when a person is attached, he just can’t think properly. So, attachment can make us do things which we would normally never think, even consider doing.
So, attachment is definitely unhealthy, it is undesirable. Now, when we have, on the other hand, giving up attachment doesn’t mean becoming heartless, doesn’t mean becoming stone-like. It just means that there is a proper balance between our emotional side and our rational side.
Between our intelligence and our emotions. So, we are all tremendously influenced by our emotions, by our feelings. At the same time, we are not meant to be controlled by our feelings.
Our feelings can sometimes point us in the right direction, sometimes they can point us in the wrong direction. And that’s why to counterbalance our emotional side, we have been given the rational side. And attachment means, not only does the emotional side become stronger than the rational side, attachment means the emotional side takes control of the rational side.
And after, when a person is attached, that person often rationalizes what they’re doing. They rationalize. Now, rationalize, you could re-spell it as R-A-T-I-O-N-A-L L-I-E-S Rationalize.
So, we rationalize, we tell rational lies. So, we try to justify what we’re doing. The story of an anti-alcohol campaigner, who once came to a gathering of alcoholics.
He wanted to demonstrate to them how dangerous alcohol is. So, he had got a beaker containing alcohol and he had got a small fly in a box. He opened the box and flipped the fly into the fly fluttered for a few moments and it sunk at the bottom and died.
And he told all the alcoholics, what do you learn from this demonstration? So, all of them started looking down. So, one alcoholic cheerful, he raised his hand. What do you learn? He says, when I drink alcohol, all the worms and germs in my stomach will die.
Laughter So, when we become attached to something not only do we just act according to our emotions, our intelligence becomes controlled by the emotionality, by what we’re attached to. We justify what we’re doing based on our attachments. So, attachment is unhealthy and it needs to be given up.
So, I talk about how detachment is not hard-heartedness it is level-headedness. Level-headedness means we don’t get carried away by our emotions. We consider our emotions but we also consider our rational faculty.
And then based on that we make decisions. In general our emotions they consider only the short term. I feel like this, I don’t feel like this.
Just like a child, I started in that. Child says, I want to play in the middle of the street. Child says, there’s so much space over there I can play.
Child doesn’t think the long term. The mother can think long term but she says, no, you cannot play well. So, emotions are often about the short term.
And the intelligence is meant to see the long term. And when I talk about the elephant, our emotional side is almost always stronger than our rational side. Even people who seem to be little cold, distant or unemotional they actually also have emotions but they don’t express the emotions so much.
Everybody has emotions. There is different level of expression of one’s emotions. All of us, we have very strong emotions.
Our emotional side is like the elephant. And we can’t wish it away. And our rational side is like that rider on top of the elephant.
So, what we need is the gourd. The gourd to control the elephant. If we lose the gourd, the hand will be just carried away.
And that gourd is our scriptural study. It’s our study of wisdom texts which reminds us of life’s long term purposes. Of life’s ultimate purpose.
To the extent we study scripture, to the extent we associate with those who are studying scripture, to that extent, our long term vision remains clear. And to that extent, we will be equipped with the gourd and we will be able to just as the gourd directs the elephant, we will be able to direct our emotionality. The emotionality is not to be given up, but it needs to be channeled.
It needs to be regulated. So, when Dhritarashtra was so attached to Duryodhana, if we consider the Mahabharata, in every story, whether it is a movie or a novel or whatever, there is a hero, there is a villain, broadly speaking. Some positive characters, some negative characters.
In the Mahabharata, Dhritarashtra is more like a passive villain and Duryodhana is the active villain. So, Duryodhana is the person who is actively scheming and Dhritarashtra just can’t say no to him. So now, in this case, Dhritarashtra, what was his, what was the reason for his attachment? Actually, when Dhritarashtra is, when Gandhari gets her hundred sons, so at that time, Vidura tells Dhritarashtra that your eldest son is a demoniac.
He will cause the destruction of your whole dynasty. He says, abandon him right now. You will still have ninety-nine sons.
And he tells him that, actually, for a higher cause, a lower cause can be abandoned. That means, that, say, for the sake of a family, one family member may be sacrificed. For the sake of a village, one family may be sacrificed.
For the sake of a country, one village may be sacrificed. For a higher cause, something lower can be sacrificed. So, he says, for the sake of your ninety-nine sons and for the sake of the whole Kuru dynasty, give up this son.
And now, if we see the other Kauravas, also, apart from Duryodhana, Dushasan was villainous. But other Kauravas were not that villainous. In fact, when Draupadi was being disrobed, one of the Kauravas, Vikarna, he actually opposed the disrobing of Draupadi.
So, and in fact, when Krishna came as Shanti Doodh, Krishna spoke so persuasively that one time Dushasan also got influenced. And then Dushasan said, if this Duryodhana does not agree with Krishna and give the Kapandavas his kingdom, then let us arrest Duryodhana, tie him up and give him only to Krishna. Duryodhana was furious.
He said, how can my brother, he is like my right hand man, how can he betray me? So, what he did was, he just, Duryodhana just walked out. And now the remaining ninety-eight brothers were caught. You know, whom to follow, Dushasan or Duryodhana? Dushasan is saying, you should do this.
Duryodhana just walked out. And they decided, Duryodhana is our leader. So, they all walked out.
And Dushasan was left all alone now. He didn’t know what to do. He also walked out.
Now, Duryodhana, one skill he had was that he was he was a good politician. He was an expert. He was an expert in understanding people’s emotions by which he could manipulate them.
So, when Dushasan came, Dushasan was a little nervous. What will Duryodhana speak to me? Duryodhana will be angry with me that I spoke against him. Duryodhana knew that he wanted Dushasan on his side.
So, as soon as Dushasan came into their assembly, he just spoke, you know, Krishna is a very cunning person. When he speaks, he is so cunning that he can influence anyone. Isn’t it, Dushasan? So, what happened is he gave Dushasan a way out.
Yeah, yeah, Krishna is so cunning, I got influenced. And Dushasan agreed and then he got Duryodhana on his side. That’s what Duryodhana also did with Karna.
When Karna came, in the martial exhibition, when Karna came in the martial exhibition and at that time he exhibited martial skills and he equalled Arjuna. So, at that time actually Karna had basically gate crashed. Now, if there is a college and say there is a college which teaches music and there are the graduates of that college who have done the course and they are going exhibiting their skills and that is for the graduates of that college, that particular exhibition.
If somebody who is not educated in that college, that student comes and says there, I want to exhibit my skills over here. Well, this is not the forum for that. There can be competition between different contestants, but not here.
So, Karna came in like that. The martial exhibition was primarily for the Kuru citizens to see how their princes had become expert. After going to Drona’s academy, how well they had learnt.
When Karna demanded that I be allowed, he was allowed initially, but then when he asked for a duel, then his antecedents were asked who he is, what his lineage is and at that time when his head fell down, he did not want to speak about his lineage. So, at that time, Duryodhana told him that if they want a king, I will make you a king and he gave him the kingdom and then Karna felt that his honour had been redeemed. He says, what can I do for you? You have saved my honour, oh Duryodhana, today.
What can I do for you? And Duryodhana was so expert. Actually, Duryodhana had really no love for Karna per se. As it appears that he had love for Karna, for him, Karna was simply a foil to Arjuna.
Even I can deal with Bhima, but I need somebody to deal with Arjuna. So, what he did was, very expertly he said, oh Karna, I do not want anything from you except your friendship and that Karna said. Karna was so emotionally overwhelmed.
First of all, he got such a kingdom and then he got a king over there telling, I want your friendship. Karna said, oh Duryodhana, you will have that till my last breath. And that promise was what imprisoned Karna.
There were times when Karna had attacks of his conscience. He felt that I am not doing the right thing. When he was joining the Kauravas in their atrocities against the Pandavas, but he became bound.
So, Duryodhana knew how to expertly manipulate people. So, the point I was making is, here that it was Duryodhana who spoiled all the other Kauravas. And Dhritharashtra was told, give up this one son.
So then, what was it that made him so attached to Duryodhana? Actually, Dhritharashtra desired to be the king. And although he was the eldest among the brothers, because he was blind, he could not become the king. And he had more or less reconciled himself to the fact that I will not be the king.
And Pandu, although he was the younger brother, Pandu treated him very respectfully. But when Pandu renounced the world and he started living like an ascetic in the forest, at that time Dhritharashtra sat on the throne. And while sitting on the throne, he became attached to it.
And he felt that I want to be in power. And if I can’t be in power, I want my son to be in power. And just as he had been the eldest son and he had been deprived, he felt that my eldest son should not be deprived.
So he projected his own conceptions on his son. Now actually whether his eldest son had become the king or his second son had become the king, it would not have made any difference. But he was irrationally attached to his eldest son.
I, the eldest brother, could not become the king, at least my eldest son should become the king. That’s how he became irrationally attached to him. So when there is attachment, there is not only the inability to think clearly, our thinking becomes controlled.
It’s a very peculiar way of thinking of Dhritarashtra. You know, he has so many sons, one of his sons becomes the king, what is the problem? If one son doesn’t become the king, another son becomes the king. It is no big problem.
But he just couldn’t figure it out that way. So attachment is harmful. And detachment, if it is coming primarily from the same short-term perspective.
Attachment means we see only short-term. How can I tolerate someone? How can I tolerate my child crying? So I let the child do whatever it wants. So very short-term perspective.
If detachment is also coming from the same short-term perspective, then that detachment is actually not detachment. It is simply, like yesterday we discussed, frustration. It’s frustration.
So when there is a capacity to see long-term. So detachment doesn’t simply mean giving up things. Actually detachment means giving up the short-term for the long-term.
We can never be completely detached. We are by nature conscious beings. And to be conscious means to think, to feel and to will.
Whenever we are conscious of something, we look at things around us, think about them. And while thinking about them, we find something. Oh, this looks nice.
And then I want it. So thinking, feeling, willing are natural functions of consciousness. And they cannot be stopped.
But what we think about, what we feel in relation to, and what we intend to do, that is something we can select. So detachment means that we are ready to give up the short-term for the long-term. And in the spiritual sense, detachment means that we are ready to give up the worldly things so that we can, those worldly things especially, which go against our bhakti, so that we can grow in our bhakti, so that we can go closer to Krishna.
In the case of Duryodhana, in the case of Dhritarashtra, Krishna himself came and spoke. And Krishna became a Shanti Doodh. And Krishna initially addressed Dhritarashtra.
Because Dhritarashtra was the king. So he spoke to Dhritarashtra. And Dhritarashtra, the whole Shanti Doodh incident with Krishna comes, it’s a fascinating, fascinating series of incidents that happen within it.
Dhritarashtra, after years Krishna speaking, Krishna actually uses very expertly. If you analyze the whole incident, Krishna uses Saam, Daam, Bhed and Danda. He tries to show how common interests are there.
Saam. He promises. He tells the Kauravas, you know.
Okay, you want the kingdom? Take the full kingdom. Just give five villages. Danda, he says.
You want to, if you want to fight, know that just now Arjuna has alone defeated every one of you. You know. And now Arjuna is not going to be alone.
With him Bhima is going to be there. So, he uses Danda. And then finally Bhed.
That’s what he does. Dushasan gets influenced. Let us arrest Duryodhana and give it to him.
He tries to create dissension among them. So, Krishna tries all of that. How he tries, it’s a whole different discussion.
But suffice it to say that when Krishna speaks, he makes a very persuasive presentation. And then Dhritarashtra’s response is remarkable in its irresponsibility. You know, what he says, Krishna, I agree with everything you say.
But, please explain this to Duryodhana. So, he basically abdicates his responsibility. He just abandons his responsibility.
It’s like, you know, a mother and a child, they go to a doctor. And the doctor is telling, you know, his child’s teeth is getting spoiled. If he eats more chocolates, his teeth will fall off.
And now naturally when the doctor is going to speak, the doctor is not going to speak with the child. Doctor is going to speak with the mother. And the mother says, doctor, everything you say is right.
Please explain this to my child. Now, the doctor may explain to the child, but ultimately it’s the mother’s responsibility to make sure that the child takes the proper food and doesn’t take too many chocolates. So, what happens because of Dhritarashtra’s attachment is that he completely abdicates his responsibility.
He says, explain to Duryodhana. And then Krishna speaks to Duryodhana, but Duryodhana is just not ready to listen. And then Duryodhana turns around and tries to arrest Krishna.
And Krishna exhibits a Vishwaroopa. And Duryodhana is completely overwhelmed. He just can’t do anything.
He resumes to helplessness at that time. And then when Krishna departs, Krishna turns to the Kuru elders, Nishma, Drona, Vidura. And he says, oh Kuru elders, you know, you have yourself.
So Dhritarashtra again says, when Krishna is departing, Krishna, I don’t want any war. Please know that I don’t support the war. But what can I do? Duryodhana is not listening.
So then Krishna turns to the Kuru elders and he says, oh elders, see that the emperor of the world has expressed his helplessness. Therefore, I am now helpless to prevent war. So as we say, even God cannot help those who don’t help themselves.
When Krishna wants to help us, Krishna actually went there to help Kauravas. But even he can’t help if we, if we stay attached. And Duryodhana, Dhritarashtra was so attached that actually he had to lose everything before he lost his blindness.
He had to lose everything. He never lost his blindness. He never could see with his eyes.
But blindness in terms of blindness of attachment. When did he lose it? When he lost all his hundred sons. After that Vidura came back and Vidura enlightened him at that time.
That was the time when his inner vision, his higher vision opened. So now, Dhritarashtra was attached to Duryodhana. Was Duryodhana attached to Dhritarashtra? No.
Duryodhana was attached to his own agendas. And for him, he just knew which buttons to press to get the old man to dance to his tunes. Like that.
So Dhritarashtra was on the throne. But Duryodhana was in power. Dhritarashtra had the chair but Duryodhana had the power.
In India, the government before this government also was like that. One person was in the chair and other person was in power. So Dhritarashtra he eventually lost everything.
And then when Vidura came back. Now we see that in some ways the role of Vidura and the role of Vibhishan is similar in the Ramayana. Both of them are good people on the bad side.
But the way they respond is different. Vibhishan comes over to Ram’s side and fights for Ram. Vidura does not come over to the Pandava’s side.
He does not come over to Krishna’s side. Why is that? That is because the villain in these two is different. It is in Ramayana, Vibhishan’s brother Ravana is the villain.
And there is no hope of his redemption. Vibhishan has tried everything and Ravana is the active villain. So the only way that things are going to be salvaged is Ravana has to be destroyed.
Whereas in the case of the Mahabharata Vidura’s brother again he is the elder brother but Vidura’s brother is not the active villain. He is the passive villain. So, but he is very attached to Duryodhana.
So if Vidura had been a part of the forces that had killed Dhritarashtra’s sons then Dhritarashtra would have been because of the attachment and grief he would not have been able to hear from Vidura. You killed my sons. So when Vidura just went away Vidura was not actively a part of those who killed Dhritarashtra’s sons and then when Vidura came back at that time all the good instruction that Vidura had been giving earlier now it started sinking in.
So Vidura was affectionate to Dhritarashtra and being affectionate, I will talk about this more in tomorrow’s class but I will just briefly mention it over here. You know sometimes we think that being detached means just not caring at all. But an uncaring attitude is irresponsibility.
It is not detachment. Now what is the difference between detachment and irresponsibility? The difference primarily is in terms of when. Detachment is after we have done the action.
Irresponsibility is before we do the action only. That means a student studies for the exam and now the exams are given and they are waiting for the results. They are constantly worried what is going to happen? It’s over now.
Just be detached. Results will come. Don’t bother about it now.
But before the exams only the student says, I don’t bother about the exams. That is not detachment. That is irresponsibility.
So a student is studying for exam, student has to care for the exam. Has to study properly. So when we do our part that is our responsibility.
When we don’t do our part, that is irresponsibility. But when we do our part and then we obsess over that which is not in our control. That is attachment.
See, every situation there is something which is in our control there is something which is not in our control. So if we compulsively obsess over that which is not in our control that is attachment. So there are things which are in our control if we don’t do that, that is irresponsibility.
So for example, say a mother she actually cares for her child and that caring is vital but as the child grows up the mother, when the baby is very small the mother is always around, always looking the baby falling off from the floor, where is the baby doing what is the baby doing, where is the baby going but as the child grows up the mother cannot always be around the child, child will go to school, child will go to play, child will grow here, child will grow there and a child needs space to grow when the when the same child is say 5, 6, 7, 8 years old initially, a child always wants when the child sees the mother, he feels very very secure very safe, but when the child enters teenage, especially if it is a boy child doesn’t want to feel as if the boy doesn’t want to feel that my mother is all around me no boy wants to be he is a mummy’s boy they start growing up they want to have their own space now if the mother doesn’t give the child the space to grow then what happens, the child feels smothered so a part of a part of the growing up of the child is that the mother has to let go and the ultimate letting go is when the child gets married because when the child gets married at that time, the child’s relation the boy’s relation, the man’s relation, whoever it is their relationship with their spouse becomes more important so the whole process of every relationship involves that we do our part, but then we don’t do more than our part if the mother starts, mother has to take care of the child, but the mother also has to give room to the child, if the mother doesn’t give room to the child, the child feels choked so similarly in any relationship when we do, when we do our part, that is responsibility but when we obsess over that which is not in our control that is attachment so now I’m talking about attachment in a second sense, first earlier I talked about attachment is that we we become controlled by something externally and by being controlled, we do irrational things, that is one kind of attachment, where the other person controls us and then we just let ourselves be dominated by that person, but the other kind of attachment I’m talking about right now is more a matter of emotional dependency people who are emotionally dependent, they just don’t give space to the other person and that kind of attachment is also not healthy, so the whole process of, so when we talk about detachment, detachment is not about being uncaring detachment is about knowing what is in our control and what is not in our control, knowing that this is what I can do, this is what is something which I have to leave to factors beyond my control so when we are detached actually we can become more focused because we know clearly what is in our control and we know clearly what is not in our control and we can focus clearly on what is in our control so the spiritual dimension of detachment is actually attachment to Krishna so it is not that a devotee is detached from the world rather a devotee is more attached to Krishna than the world so the devotee’s focus is not on becoming detached from the world, it is on becoming attached to Krishna and because of that attachment to Krishna the worldly things, a devotee doesn’t get too involved in them so what that spiritual attachment is and how that is to be cultivated that I will talk in our talk tomorrow, today I will summarize and then we can have some question answers I spoke about the theme was detachment is not hard heartedness, it is does anyone remember? yes, level headedness, level headedness so then I discussed about what is attachment, we all have an emotional side and a rational side when the emotional side itself controls us and that determines all our behavior all our decisions, then that is attachment so our emotional side is like a big elephant and on top of that rational side is like the rider if the elephant is not disciplined if the elephant goes wild then it can cause chaos so we discussed about how Dhritarashtra was attached to Duryodhana and because of that he just became blinded so it is not that detachment makes us hard hearted, attachment makes us hard hearted to everything except the object of our attachment Dhritarashtra became hard hearted towards the Pandavas, I discussed about alcoholics, they become hard hearted towards their children, their family members in different ways attachment makes us hard hearted towards everything except the object we are attached to so the emotional and the rational faculty both need to be balanced and attachment in its aggravated state, it not only overpowers the rational faculty but it also misappropriates the rational faculty that means we end up rationalizing we use our intelligence to justify our emotionality, to justify our attachments like the alcoholic saying that drinking alcohol will kill the worms and germs in my stomach so Dhritarashtra abdicating responsibility explain to Duryodhana often our attachments have very irrational causes irrational sources Dhritarashtra projected his own feeling of deprivation, oh why the eldest son could not rule so at least my eldest son should rule he could very well have lived happily with 99 sons but that irrational attachment ruined his life so attachment is unhealthy not just from the spiritual perspective even from the material perspective, the emotions which we have they just make us see only short term, detachment means that we are able to see the long term and we are ready to sacrifice the short term for the long term and in that connection we discuss the difference between detachment and responsibility responsibility means I don’t care for something detachment means I care but I also know that things are not in my control some things are not in my control so I let go when I need to let go so in every relationship a mother when the child is small mother has to care for the child but if she is attached then she will not let she will one way of attachment of the mother to the child could be that the mother cannot say no to the child even if the child wants to do dangerous things mother allows the child to do that that is one way of attachment, the other way of attachment is that the mother hovers over the child and doesn’t give the child room so that is also that we don’t if we don’t care if we care so much we don’t give the other person freedom or we care so much that we give the other person too much freedom because I just can’t displease you so that both ways attachment can in either cases what is happening intelligence is being overpowered by the emotion and ultimately like Vidura, how was he able to convince Dhritarashtra he lost his objects of attachment and he lost everything and then he was able to get see sense that is not necessary if we cultivate spiritual intelligence and we cultivate spiritual attachment to Krishna then we can actually become detached without having to suffer loss the way Dhritarashtra had to suffer so our spiritual intelligence is like the gold which controls the elephant and our spiritual attachment to Krishna we will discuss more tomorrow that helps us to become directed to become focused on something higher and by that focus on something higher we don’t feel as if I am being deprived when I am giving up my attachments rather you see I am going to get something more by my connection with Krishna and that way we can become detached without becoming hard hearted we can become level headed in taking our decisions soundly thank you very much. Hare Krishna any comments or questions yes two questions one question is that I know you already explained but I still wanted to elaborate a little bit more we see that many times when we are becoming detached in Krishna consciousness we definitely don’t want to do our responsibilities and at the same time we also become selfish we think of only our own spiritual advancement and neglect the spiritual advancement of our family of our near and dear ones so how how do you look at this because you know you said bhakti means we should become selfless but at the same time you know we become like my advancement what about my advancement that focus is there so sometimes sometimes when we are practicing bhakti at that time we become we tend to become detached but in the name of detachment we become self centered or selfish we consider about our own spiritual advancement and while being concerned about our spiritual advancement we become uncaring about our family members we become irresponsible so how do we see this see the word selfish has a very strong negative connotation to it but but we all have our needs to want to address our needs is not selfishness that means that say in a family we want our family members also to take food but we also need to eat it’s taking care of our needs we can put other people’s needs first but then if we are not eating at all we are going to become weak and then we are going to fall sick and others will have to care for us so to take care of our needs is not selfishness and if we are practicing spiritual life we also have we need to pay attention to our spiritual side so that is not considered selfishness now the the problem comes when we have a very we have a very compartmentalized understanding of spiritual spiritual growth that means we think that only if I am chanting only if I am going for program only if I am going to temple that is spiritual everything else is material so when we have this very rigidly compartmentalized understanding of spirituality then we are actually Krishna is everywhere but we are seeing Krishna only in some places we are not able to see him in other places and that is a sign of a Kanishit Adhikari, it’s a very low level devotee, one who can see Krishna only in the temple now of course there are some atheists who say that Krishna is everywhere why do you need to go to the temple such people they are not able to see Krishna even in the temple so we have to begin by seeing Krishna in the temple you know it’s like those who say that God is everywhere no that way if you see water vapor is everywhere water is everywhere in the form of water vapor when I am thirsty can I just hang out my tongue and I will get water I can’t do that I have to go somewhere where water is available so definitely we need to have time for direct spiritual activities we need to go to temple, we need to have direct devotional activities but along with that the characteristic of Madhyam Adhikari is Madhyam Adhikari is a middle level devotee Madhyam Adhikari understands that my relationship with God doesn’t depend only what I do directly in relationship with God my relationship with God also depends on how I relate with others how I relate with other devotees how I relate with other people who are innocent, they may not be devotees but they are innocent and how I relate with people also who are anti-devotional so basically here we see a we have a holistic vision of bhakti holistic vision of understanding how our relationship with God develops it is not just how we directly relate with God but also how we relate with others so in our family the way we have certain responsibilities and if we neglect those responsibilities thinking I want to make spiritual advancement then we may chant more, we may do our own devotional activities more but actually it is a we are still operating under a very restricted conception of spirituality only if I am doing this I am being spiritual I am doing that, that is not spiritual but we do it like that and our family responsibilities they can be spiritualized if we see our family members as parts of Krishna it is by Krishna’s arrangement that we are in a particular family and we do our part in in that mood of service to Krishna then through that also we are making spiritual advancement so we have our needs for which we do need to give time for our bhakti activities but along with that if we neglect our family responsibilities then that is not, it is not so much detachment, it is more of a responsibility so there has to be a over a period of time we ourselves learn how to balance sometimes we may do our devotional activities a little more and then it happens that our family activities get neglected but then there are times when in the family there are more urgent situations and we pay more attention, more time over there and sometimes our spiritual activities go down so we have to learn a balance but what we should not have is the idea that only directly devotional activities are devotional even our other activities they can also be spiritualized and to the extent we see that our whole life is spiritualizable, to that extent actually we are rising to a higher level of bhakti does it answer the question? the second question? yes, we will come back to you yes why did the Pandavas give me atleast 5 villages are they attached to the kingdom that much or 5 villages they could have easily won somewhere else or make their own kingdom because they were so strong is it something like they were more attached to the kingdom? see the Pandavas were so powerful why did they have to fight and kill their own relatives just to get 5 villages or just to get a kingdom they could have got the villages or a kingdom elsewhere by fighting somewhere else yes, there are two different things going on over here that just before the Kurukshetra war there are multiple peace efforts that are made so first the Pandavas send Drupada’s Brahmin priest to negotiate some peace and he speaks very persuasively and Dhritarashtra says I will send Sanjay as my messenger with my reply and then after that Krishna himself goes now at one point Sanjay Dhritarashtra sends Sanjay with the message Sanjay says actually you know when people are grahasthas after they are grahasthas they have to take vanaprastha you have already taken vanaprastha why do you want to become grahastha now laughing so you have already renounced why do you need a kingdom now so why do you want to fight a war to gain a kingdom so Yudhishthir replies Sanjay you misunderstand I do not wish to fight a war and I certainly do not wish to fight with my relatives if we had desired to fight we would not have been having this negotiation we simply want to do our dharma now see the concept of responsibility that is there at that time is substantially different and deeper than what in today’s ethos we may understand the royal family that was there the royal family it was a dynasty where generation after generation they would become kings of course they would be trained and become qualified also but right from their birth they would be inculcated a sense of responsibility this is your kingdom and the citizens are your responsibility you have to take care of them so the Pandavas also had that sense of responsibility towards their citizens and their concern was that if a person like Duryodhana who had been so unrighteous so vicious that he had tried to dishonor honorable royal lady in public if he was allowed unfettered rule there was no limit to the depravities that he could go to when the Pandavas were exiled at that time Duryodhana did not directly do anything vicious because he knew that his rule was not yet secure but if he felt that the Pandavas are no longer a factor they were no longer a threat then he could just abuse power in a horrendous way so it was the Pandavas sense of responsibility for their citizens Drupada was also a very powerful king at that time in fact if you look at the geopolitical history of India at that time the two main kings were the Panchala king and the Kuru king the Kuru king was of course through various yajnas they have become extremely powerful but Panchala king was also very powerful so the Pandavas were already affiliated with Drupada being his son-in-law and Drupada could easily have given them a kingdom if they had wanted but the point was they had a sense of responsibility towards their citizens and they felt that even if they had five villages the just their presence in the Kuru kingdom would reassure the virtuous citizens and would be a deterrent for the Kauravas especially for Duryodhana from doing atrocities that is the first aspect of it it is not that they were attached to the kingdom it was rather they had a sense of responsibility towards their citizens secondly when they were asking only for five citizens the point is not for five villages the point is not just five villages the point is that that request for five villages was actually an expression of their willingness for accommodation how much ready they were ready to extend themselves so it is not that they were ready to fight for five villages it is rather in order to avoid fighting they were ready to settle even for five villages so those who were actually the rulers of the whole world they were ready to settle even for five villages to that extent they were ready to go to avoid fighting and when Duryodhana then Krishna comes to comes to Hastinapur at that time the night before the meeting happens in the Kuru assembly he stays at Vidura’s place and Vidura tells Krishna Krishna, now why have you come here to negotiate with Duryodhana he is not going to listen and Vidura is also apprehensive that he has also heard rumors that Duryodhana may try to arrest Krishna so Vidura feels as if his worst nightmare is going to be reenacted now the same assembly in which Draupadi was dishonored tomorrow his lord Krishna is going to be dishonored he says Krishna, why do you want to do this why are you negotiating with him and Krishna says I know that Duryodhana is not going to listen to me but I want to proclaim to the world that the Pandavas did everything possible to avoid war now normally sometimes we say that I will do everything humanly possible, in the case of Krishna he said the Pandavas did everything not only humanly possible but everything divinely possible also so God himself came and still Duryodhana was so obstinate so adamant that he did not listen. So it was their sense of duty which made the Pandavas feel the need for a kingdom so that they could protect their citizens and it was their willingness to avoid war or it was their eagerness to avoid war at all cost that made them make an offer that we will settle even for five villages.
Does it answer your question? Hare Krishna Any other questions? Ok How to practice attachment with detachment in day to day life? The important thing is to always have our purpose in mind There are times when we may veer towards attachment when we become too emotional or there are times we may veer towards detachment where we may just become too cold or hard hearted but if we keep our purpose in mind, what is it that I am trying to do over here? That purpose will bring the sense of balance sometimes we may become too emotional, sometimes we may become too cold that is just like when a plane is flying the plane never goes in one straight line from point A to point B winds come along, sometimes it goes this way, sometimes it goes that way but then the pilot is aware this is the destination I want to go to the pilot reorients the plane that is how the plane reaches the destination so like that we will go through phases of attachment as well as detachment but if we keep our purpose in mind then we will be able to refocus ourselves from whichever extreme we veer towards we will come back on track and for keeping a purpose in mind it is important to make ourselves spiritually strong because what happens in material life we can have many different purposes I want a job, I want this, I want that these are also important purposes but these purposes themselves can work at cross purpose sometimes so my role as a professional in office and my role as a family member at home or say my role as a spouse and my role as a parent there are so many roles which may work at cross purposes so if we understand our fundamental identity that I am a part of God and I am meant to serve God so ok I am doing a job that is for service that is ultimately one way I am serving I am a parent that is another way I am serving so when we talk about having that sense of that balance between attachment and detachment we need something fundamental on which we can rest so we have many roles in our life, a role as a parent a role as a spouse, a role as a professional, this role, that role but underlying all those roles is our fundamental identity so if by spiritual practices we root ourselves in our fundamental identity that actually I am a soul I am a part of God I am meant to serve God and in all these situations these are just different ways in which I can serve serve God then with that understanding we can create the necessary distance from whichever role we are acting and then because I understand I am not this role I am not a parent, I am not a spouse I am fundamentally a soul so whenever the distance is required remembering our fundamental identity that can create the distance so we can have the necessary detachment along with that we also want to do whatever role we are playing, we want to do it well we want to do it responsibly so that again if we understand that actually I am a soul, I am meant to serve God and through these activities also I can serve so therefore I want to do this service well so we can be involved in the activity without being consumed by the activity that will happen when we have a sense of our identity which is different from the role that we are playing at the same time we recognize the importance of the role so by our spiritual practices especially by our scriptural study by chanting of the holy names we become rooted, we experience God, we experience security in our relationship with God and then by that security we can achieve the appropriate balance of attachment and detachment does this answer your question? yes ma’am what is the difference between attachment and obsession? is it ok to have obsession when it comes to spirituality? ok what is the difference between attachment and obsession and is it ok to have obsession when it comes to spirituality basically attachment and obsession are just progressions in the same continuum Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita in 2.62 and 63 so there he is describing when we contemplate or something Sanskrit verse at that time attachment comes when we are passing along a road and we see something, hey that’s a nice food item, I want to go and eat it we may have no plan to eat it but we just go I want to eat it, the desire comes and that desire becomes very strong. So, that’s attachment. Attachment develops first when we contemplate on things.
But over a period of time, as that contemplation continues, then what happens? Sangat sanjayate kamaha. Kama means it becomes overpowering desire. It becomes an obsession.
Kamat krodho vijayate. Then somebody says, don’t do it. Who are you to stop me? We become furious at whoever.
We become angry with whoever or whatever. Comes as an obstacle between that. And krodha dhauri sammoha.
Sammoha means at that time there is delusion. So, delusion means we just forget what is right, what is wrong. We just get completely caught in that one activity.
Sammoha smriti vibhrama. Then our intelligence, our memory, it all gets forgotten and like that we go down. And our memory is lost, our intelligence is lost.
After that we fall. So, basically, obsession is like an advanced stage of attachment. When there is attachment also, there is some danger.
If you consider a snowball. A snowball is formed at the top of a hill. It is just like a pebble at the top.
When it is rolling down, somebody can just kick it. It will crack into pieces. But as the snowball starts coming down, down, down, down the hill, it gathers more and more snow.
And by the time it has come down at the bottom of the hill, it may be so big, it may just knock over a whole human being. So, what has happened? The snowball at the top is a pebble. But at the bottom it can be like a huge boulder.
Similarly, when the thought is at the top, at the initial stage it is just a thought. Maybe I can do this. But as we keep contemplating, it keeps coming down and down and down.
It becomes bigger and bigger, stronger and stronger. So, attachment is like the snowball which is just being formed. It is also dangerous, but it is at a controllable level.
Obsession means it is just not controllable. It has already become a large snowball. Now, is obsession about spiritual things good? In the ultimate sense, it is yes.
The gopis are obsessed about Krishna. Prabhupada specifically uses the word obsessed. They just add for Krishna.
Wherever they are, they just see Krishna. And for Krishna’s sake, they are ready to give up everything. The gopis actually demonstrate, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam charanam.
They just give up everything for Krishna’s sake. So, to be obsessed for Krishna is actually life’s ultimate perfection. Because Krishna is the ultimate goal of our life.
He is the highest reality. He is the source of the supreme happiness. So, to become obsessed to him is supremely auspicious.
At the same time, that obsession is not something which is to be artificially imagined or imitated. It is something which naturally emerges through very deep-rooted attraction towards Krishna. So, when it is artificially imagined or imitated, at that time, we may think that I am so attached to Krishna that I don’t care for anything else.
But actually, we are not at that level. And when the test comes, we may say that, oh, I am attached to Krishna, but then our attachment to other things will also be revealed. So, rather than imagining that I am very attached to Krishna, the process of Bhakti Yuga tells us that we balance.
In the Aishopanishad, it is said that there is the material knowledge and there is the spiritual knowledge. Both are required for navigating through this world. Ultimately, we are souls.
If we attain God, then there is no need for material knowledge because we will be in the spiritual world. But while we are in this world, material and spiritual both need to be balanced. So, at our stage, an obsession for spiritual things is most likely artificial.
It is premature. So, there is a process for developing authentic attraction towards Krishna. And that process involves spiritualizing our whole life.
It is not just obsessing over Krishna alone or obsessing over some aspects of Krishna alone. It is rather learning to see Krishna in all aspects of our life. And of course, there will be some aspects of Krishna Bhakti where we can easily connect with Krishna, where we naturally feel attracted.
If they are there, that’s auspicious. If somebody likes kirtans very much or somebody likes the deities very much, somebody likes holy places very much, any form of attraction to Krishna is very good. But that attraction to Krishna is something which we should cultivate and nourish while doing other activities in our life.
If somebody likes kirtans, it is not that 24 hours a day just sit and hear kirtans. Now, what we should be doing is we have our other responsibilities, we do them, but we should cultivate eagerness. When will I get some time now? As soon as I get some time, I hear some kirtans or I see some darshan, I read some scripture, I hear some lecture, whatever it is, we are attracted to.
So, at our level, the obsession we can or the attraction towards Krishna that we can have, that we can channel in such a way that we fill our life and especially the blanks in our life with Krishna. Just like a person is attached to cricket. Then you know that every opportunity they get, they look at cricket score.
Every opportunity they want to leave, what is the cricket update? So, just as a materially attached person looks forward, naturally their mind goes to, as soon as there is any free time, immediately their mind goes towards the object of their attachment. So, like that, rather than we rejecting our material things for Krishna’s sake, what we do is, we do our material things, but we cultivate an attraction towards Krishna so that wherever we have any free time, immediately our default will go towards Krishna. Right now, based on whatever we are attached to, as soon as we are doing nothing, our mind starts doing that thing.
That’s what is our attachment. So, we can direct our, whatever it is that we are attracted to in Krishna Bhakti, we can strive to make that our default attachment. And if we are, if you also know that Krishna Bhakti is not just something which we are doing.
Krishna is also reciprocating. So, if we have a very strong desire to practice Krishna Bhakti, then, and we do what we can in our situation, then Krishna will see that and Krishna will give us more and more facility. So, now I want to do more devotional activities, but I just don’t have time.
So, it’s not that we have to give up other responsibilities, but whatever time we have, we use it. And if we use whatever time we have, Krishna will arrange our life in such a way that we will get more time. He will arrange to give us more time.
So, that way, obsession in Krishna Bhakti is good, but it can be premature and artificial at the last stage. So, it’s better to follow the process by which authentic attraction to Krishna will emerge. And within that, if we have some attraction to some aspect of Krishna Bhakti, we can use that to fill in all the blanks in our daily schedule so that our life becomes filled with Krishna.
And then Krishna will eventually reciprocate and give us more and more time to become absorbed in Him. Thank you very much.