In dealing with our desires through indulgence in householder life isn’t there a danger that the desires may not go away?

Answer Podcast

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Thank you.
So, is there a risk that sometimes we can fulfill a desire but after that the desire grows, it doesn’t work? Yes, nothing in this world is risk-free. So, the point is that we have to focus not on the risk, we have to focus on how much I am going to benefit from it. So, yes, there is a risk that if we indulge, we may indulge in a disproportionate way and we may get distracted from the practice of worship.
And we may not learn the lesson or it may appear as if we have not learned the lesson. But the point is, that simply means that our conditioning is very strong. And it needs to be addressed in an appropriate way.
So, it is not that the experience is what gives the lesson. It is the hearing, it is the practice of bhakti that gives us the lesson. So, actually I have a diagram representation of this.
How it works is, see, I will try to sketch it here roughly. So, there is hearing, there is experience, there is realization. There is hearing, there is contemplation, analysis and there is realization.
The seed of realization is hearing. Some people, simply by hearing, they can analyze, contemplate and realize it. Others, they may hear, that does not give them the conviction.
So, they experience and then they realize. Now, there is no need to make things too judgmental by saying that anybody who needs to experience is a second class person. If we see, within culture also, even in the towns, more than 95% of the people, they are grandsons.
And it is not that the sages are saying, sages are coming to meet the grahasthas. It is not that. The grahasthas may say, we are following.
But the sages won’t say, you are following. Seriously? So, the conviction and realization coming from hearing, that was always for a special select number of people. We can’t make that which was rare, even in Satyuga, as the expected standard in Kali Yuga.
So, now, this is not to discredit the sages. Those who can be renounced, they are rare, they are having the spirit, they have the inspiration and they should be given full encouragement. If we are inspired, we can also do that.
But the point is, that should not be made as the parameter of one’s spiritual seriousness. That should not be made as the sole parameter of one’s spiritual advancement. So, most people, they go through the experience.
And actually, the grahastha life is not just about, what is meant by gratification. There is a whole culture of dharma which is largely sustained by the grandsons. They renunciate, they exemplify renunciation in a particular way.
They are completely focused on God. But the majority of society is not going to ever be able to practice that. And they need living examples.
And those living examples are going to be grandsons. So, if we look in the Vedic culture, in the Bhagavatam, it talks about kings. All the kings were grandsons.
So, it’s not that, are you going to see all the kings that the Bhagavatam talks about? They are all second class people. They have great devotees. And there are whole languages.
So, the point is, that this point of first class and second class, it’s important to recognize that, to understand that, we don’t have to experience everything in this world to realize that it is useless. One of my friends, when I was initially introduced to him, I told him, you just chant Hare Krishna and find out. It works wonderfully.
He told me, okay. He said that, okay, I will try out chanting Hare Krishna if you try out drugs. I told him that, actually, we don’t have to try out something, which even common sense and intelligence do not allow.
Is there any common sense and intelligence? By which you can say chanting Hare Krishna and find out. Now, drugs, we know that. Biological reasons are there.
Medical reasons are there. So many case studies are there. So, it’s not to the point of hearing and learning.
It is primarily that there are so many forms of enjoyment in this world. It’s not that we have to experience all of them to become attached to them. But there are many ways.
There is a whole regulated life of karma, where people, like yesterday’s class I said, we don’t have to, by default, position the material as the competitor of the spiritual. The material is not, by default, the competitor of the spiritual. The material is a functional need.
And what level of functional need different people have to function at, that’s different. The material can become the competitor of the spiritual, either in two cases, if we obsess too much over it, thinking that getting it will make me happy. Or if we obsess too much over it, thinking that getting rid of it will make me happy.
No, what is going to make us happy is connecting with Krishna. So, the material is not, by default, the competitor of the spiritual. The material is simply functional, and the spiritual is the way where we want to go.
It’s actually, say, when we are travelling in a plane, and there are first class seats, there are economy seats, there are business class seats. Now, the business class seat will be more comfortable, the economy seat will be less comfortable. But the point is, where the plane is going.
Both are going in the same destination. So some people may want more comfort, they will get more comfort. They will pay more for it.
But the point is, not whether a person is seated in a business class or an economic class, the point is whether the plane is going in the right direction. Some people may become so proud that they are sitting in a business class, they don’t even notice that their plane has not moved. So sometimes we will become so centred on either attachment or detachment, that we don’t become moved towards Krishna.
So the point is simply that experience alone is no guarantor of realisation. It is here in the practice of bhakti, that is the guarantor of realisation. But while practising the bhakti, there are different desires that may distract us to different things.
And if those desires distract us too much, then processing those desires appropriately is the way we can refocus on bhakti. Somehow, what happens is, see, at one level, meeting is meeting, mating is mating. We are simply biological creatures.
But we can now, we can be, see, we sometimes put mating in an entirely different technique. Yes, there can be, there can be illicit way of doing things, and that can lead to a lot more complications than what eating and sleeping do. So there has to be definitely a lot of caution.
But at another level, it is simply biological creation. So, somebody is chanting Hare Krishna, attractively, and they are fasting in the gym, and the stomach is tormenting them so much, they just can’t chant. They just can’t focus at all on the tormenting.
Better, better drink some water, take some food, come back and chant. So, and if the focus is chanting, then whether one takes, whether one does nirgya, or whether one eats, that’s just one thing, get it over, and come back and start practicing. Start chanting Hare Krishna.
So, in terms of the complications that can result, because there is so much infatuation and attachment involved in it, so there is a lot of cautionary notes talked about. But at another level, it is simply biological function. And some people may get, some people may just go to eat, and just keep eating, keep eating, keep eating, keep eating.
Now if somebody says that because there is a risk of over-eating, so I will not eat. It is just one way. So we don’t have to, the real problem is when the biological function becomes a psychological obsession.
Then it becomes a big problem. So if you just remember that there are bodily functions, and different people can regulate their bodily functions for different purposes. Bhima would eat so much.
The Pandavas, all of them, you know, in the Mahabharata, whatever Pandavas would get, all of them, they would divide into two parts. One part would be shared by Yudhishthira, Arjuna, Nakula and Sahadeva, and Draupadi or Kunti, who was there. And the other part was taken by Bhima.
So it was Bhima that got hit. Nobody was telling him, you are a glutton. He ate that much, and he had that much energy.
When the Pandavas would get tired, especially in the forest, Bhima alone carried all four points of this. He carried all of them. He carried Kunti also.
He just ran through the forest. There was so much energy. So, ultimately, we give Krishna the focus.
And if Krishna has the focus, then how best we can move towards Krishna, Yudhishthira, Sahadeva. So there is, of course, the danger that when one indulges, one may indulge disproportionately and get obsessed with that. But there is also the danger that if one is not able to process the desire, not able to become purified of the desire, then one becomes externally practicing bhakti.
But then one is so tormented by the desires that one is not actually dreaming of Krishna, one is not connected with Krishna. One is not going towards Krishna. See, the purpose of bhakti is to transcend ourselves.
Transcend our current material state. The purpose of bhakti is not to torment ourselves. So, if a particular kind of desire is tormenting us, and we just not able to fix ourselves on Krishna, then to think that I am at that, I want to get the higher level, I want to move towards Krishna.
Actually, if we are not somewhere, imagining that I am there is not going to get us there. If I am sick, and I imagine I am healthy, then imagining that I am healthy is not going to get me there. Except, okay, I am sick right now, I take this medicine, I become healthy.
So, the overall principle is we have to understand how I can practice bhakti systematically. If our intention is to practice bhakti, then Krishna will guide us back. And if we are doing things dharmically, then there is danger everywhere in this world.
But, there is also the possibility, there is also the very time-honored pathway of moving towards Krishna, helping others to move towards Krishna also, through whichever ashram we choose. Does anyone see the question? Thank you.