From Maya to Lila (02)

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna so today morning we are discussing the childhood pastimes of Krishna and here Shri Prabhupada explains how killing the demons was a part of his routine work in this world so I'll continue I'll come to this theme as I continue from the theme which I addressed yesterday yesterday I spoke on the nature of illusion and how the illusion of Maya is different from the illusion of Leela so illusion is not just it is hallucination means there is some perception without any object illusion means the object is there but it is perceived wrongly and impersonalists consider that both the subject and the object are illusion only the stream of consciousness is reality whereas the Vaishnavas understand that the object is real, the subject is real the illusion is caused because of the contamination in the subject the sense objects are not the source of illusion they are the trigger of illusion and basically the contamination it changes, sabotages our intention and Maya is a person at the same time she is practically acting essentially through the mind and she offers us various options like a multiple choice exam the purpose of Maya is not to thwart, to attempt and thwart us, it is to test us and to the extent we desire Krishna more than the things of this world, we can come out of illusion so for us there are contaminations inside us and there is Maya above us and both of them because of which we are put in illusion on the other hand in the case of Krishna there are no contaminations inside him and Maya is below him so therefore there is no illusion possible for him, now I will make a few more points about illusion before we move on to divine illusion the nature of illusion is that it is a network and it is self perpetuating network means that the conditioned soul is not just put in one illusion it is Krishna says in 16th chapter of the Bhagavad Gita that 16.16 says the consciousness is pulled in different directions and and is like a net so not just moha but there is a net of illusion and person is completely covered by that because of the desire to enjoy worldly pleasures the person succumbs to hellish suffering now in this sequence of verses Krishna has earlier referred to asha as a pash so pasha is like a rope or more specifically a noose so in warfare in the past or in fighting in the past when a person is running away can catch them by throwing a noose around them the noose falls around them and pulls them so asha pasha means desire is like a noose that catches a person and similarly a person can be caught by throwing a net on them they just don't know what to do just like fish are caught with a net like that the person can be caught by a net now when there is a pash there is basically one rope there is one rope that is there whereas when there is a jala there is samavrata the word that is used it is not just one desire that is restricting rather it is a network of illusions that is restraining that is fettering now normally we think of desires as something that activate people because of desires people run here and there because of the desire to enjoy food with the tongue, people go here, go there go there, so normally we think of desires as that which which makes people go here and there normally we think of desires as energising maybe in a negative direction but desires are energising whereas the Bhagavad Gita is talking about desires as restricting so there are why is this difference there normally if a person has a desire they will try to say climb up Mount Everest or something they will try to form a relationship they will try to do this, buy this, get that desires are what are energising but both these metaphors pashya and jala noose and net both of them talk about restraining so actually it depends on what is the primary purpose that a person is conceiving in their life say somebody is an alcoholic and they want to be alcoholics they just want to enjoy alcohol especially when people are young and they have not yet experienced the consequences of excessive alcohol indulgence at that time they think of drinking alcohol as freedom even if they have some their parents have told them don't indulge in this so much and be careful about these things they think this is freeing, I want to do it so desires they initially seem to be energising but because they feel I am going to do something new I am going to be free, I am going to enjoy but eventually if that person recognises the dangers of alcohol alcoholism and then they want to give it up when they are trying to recover from alcohol they want to go on to their normal work say this is home, this is office they want to go to office but along the way there is a bar then they are pulled in that direction so they don't have the freedom to do what they want to do because the desires are pulling them so when we have more or less surrendered to our desires then the desires appear to be energising they appear to be freeing but when we have some higher intention apart from whatever desires we might be having then we see the desires as restraining I want to do this particular thing but I am just not able to do it you know a student who seriously wants to study but the student has got say hooked on to surfing on the net I want to study but then that desire comes in, come on just see what is the latest update on Facebook, what is the latest news what is the latest cricket score, what is this, what is that and it pulls them so if the the struggle happens, the inner struggle happens when there is a conflict between the intention and the desire when both are same there is no conflict now the two can be same in two cases when the person has succumbed to the desire or when the person has conquered the desire so for those who are fully materialist they have succumbed to the desire they have made their intention same as their desire in that case then they don't feel much struggle, their only struggle is ok how will I get the object by which I can enjoy they don't feel any inner struggle there is only outer struggle to get the object by which they can enjoy but in the case of pure devotees who are free from desires or not even pure devotees with respect to particular desires somebody who has decided that I am not going to drink alcohol in their case there is no desire so the intention is ok this is home, this is office let me go straight then there is no conflict so the inner conflict happens because of the presence of desire and intention being in two different directions and the solution to this is either we ensure that the intention wins over the desire or the desire wins over the intention and now of course the desire winning over the intention is not the solution because whenever the desire does win over the intention even after that the desire doesn't get exhausted it is Dushpura Dushpura means that which is never satisfied so now in the case of illusion the way it works is that the desire pops up either internally through recollection or externally through perception see the alcoholic they see an object they see a bar, they see somebody drinking they see an advertisement of a drink and then that causes the desire to pop up or it might pop up internally through recollection maybe just remember because of something perception outside but recollection and when that pops up then whatever is their intention that intention becomes weakened by the desire and as the desire keeps growing then their intention starts getting weaker and weaker now when illusion works in this way in the process of purification purification essentially means that our desire by desire and intention now there is a relationship also between the two the same desire when we cultivate it stronger and stronger it becomes intention so then that desire when it becomes intention then our original intention gets sabotaged our original intention gets lost but here we are talking about a core intention that we have and a circumstantial desire that has popped up and there is a conflict between this circumstantial desire and the core intention and at such a time the what keeps a distance between that circumstantial desire and the core intention that is the intelligence the stronger the intelligence the greater will be the gap between the two and the weaker the intelligence the two become one how the two become one the core desire becomes the intention the circumstantial desire becomes the intention and that's why in the sequence when Krishna talks from 2.62 to 63 he says last stages when the intelligence is lost everything is lost so the intelligence is the last protector for the soul when the intelligence is overcome then we accept the desire as our intention so basically the mind offers a proposition or the world offers a proposition and when the intelligence accepts the proposition then it becomes an intention and when the intelligence when the intelligence accepts the proposition it becomes an intention that's when our our higher plans our practise of bhakti even our purposeful execution of responsibility of the material life they get sabotaged now in the case of Krishna and there is a leela happening this is how maya works so maya basically that it is the perception that comes either from external or the recollection that comes from internal now some of us we usually understand that by our past karma sometimes sometimes some suffering comes in our life suddenly things go wrong we lose our job, our health gets spoiled our relationships go sore now if we have done nothing to kindle suddenly it's happening on its own or we did a small thing and a big thing is happening as a result then we understand that is by past karma but what we need to understand also is that sometimes past karma may pop up as increased desires also when ajamil was going along the road how was it that he happened to see that shudra and shudrani over there his going along the road at that particular time that was by past karma he could have been going before he could have been going after so our exposure to temptation that happens by past karma sometimes we feel in kalyug there are so many temptations all around us it's so difficult to live a pure life yes that is true but then why are we born in kalyug it's because of our own past karma where we have repeatedly desired to engage in worldly pleasures that we are born in an arena where the worldly pleasures are so profusely available so just as the circumstances that we face in our life with whatever temptation levels are there high or low they are by our past karma similarly sometimes even our minds moves are affected by our past karma are influenced by our past karma sometimes for no reason suddenly our desires may just shoot up and we may start feeling very irritable and angry we may start feeling very greedy I just need to earn more or we start feeling more of lusty desire we start feeling too much of envy so all this there is not much of a perception but suddenly those desires are popping up more and more you have to understand this is also a result of past karma and that happens at that time the response is tamas titiksasvabharata tolerate tolerate that's why krishna in that verse 2.14 he talks about tolerating both externals and internals both are externals and are internals they are a result of past karma that's why krishna says matras parashastu kaunte shito ushna sukha dukha dha agam apayin orityas tamas titiksasvabharata so shito ushna is external sukha dukha is internal by both need to be tolerated tamas titiksasvabharata that means both are resulting from past karma and just tolerate them just as we live in sometimes in some place part of the world where the heat is too much sometimes we live in a part of the world where the cold is too much we just tolerate it we understand that that is that is the that is the environmental climate of that place so similarly we all as souls the soul is encased in two coverings the mind and the body now just as the bodily covering in which the soul is encased is a result of past karma the mental covering in which the soul is encased is also a result of past karma so just as the physical climate that we find ourselves in is a result of past karma similarly the emotional climate we find ourselves in is also a result of past karma so sometimes we may just find ourselves when suddenly this desire shoot up particular artha start rising at that time we understand that this is a result of past karma so krishnaswari tamas titiksasvabharata just tolerate it just as you tolerate increase in temperature or decrease in temperature so like that we tolerate the increase in desire also sometimes we feel happy sometimes we feel sad but these are circumstantial emotions see from the we usually although we understand that i am not the body and the soul but still we often define external and internal in terms of the body so therefore whatever emotions are there we think they are internal and ok the weather is external but from the soul's perspective even the mind is external and that's why the emotions that just come and go in our mind they are not our emotions they are just something which is popping up in the mind because of our past karma just like it's my computer yesterday i gave the example of software and hardware the mind is like the software the computer is like the hardware sometimes sometimes while we are just working on the computer suddenly something pops up do you want to instal this update do you want to change the setting of the software do you want to instal this new software whatever now we did nothing it suddenly popped up we have not even visited any website to get that popped up suddenly it pops up so that's the software prompting it so like that our mind sometimes prompts things now when this happens that the mind prompts something at that time we understand that actually still this is external to me and to remember the mind is external to me it is so vital to practise bhakti diligently because to distance ourselves from the body is not that difficult because the body is although we intellectually understand i am not the body i am the soul and the body has certain needs which we take care of but the mind is something whose needs are not regulated the body we know ok this much time i need to sleep this much time i need to eat these are things i need to do to take care of my body but the mind when it starts wanting something its wants become disproportionate it wants something and just that want consumes our consciousness and unless we are vigilant to identify that to remember that i am not the mind we get consumed by that thinking these are my desires and afterwards i wonder why did i do that what made me do that sometimes we become angry and just blast out at people and suppose when we are angry and we blasted out somebody recorded what we spoke and then they played the recording back to us was that me was that me or someone else who spoke through me what is happening so what has happened is that it was that emotion circumstantial in our mind that just took control of us so when we are vigilant in our bhakti practises then we remember that our mind is different from now sometimes when we are chanting and the mind wanders so much we feel what is the use of this chanting but even if we are not able to concentrate on the chanting just the attempt to chant reminds reminds us that there is something inside me that is not me it's only when we try to focus our consciousness on Krishna and the mind doesn't allow it reminds us there is something inside me that is not me this is something different from me so now why are we talking about the body, mind and soul here when we are discussing about Krishna Leela because for Krishna there is no difference between the body, mind and soul for Krishna Dehe Dehi Vedoyam in the Varaha Purana it is said that Dehe and Dehi, the body and the embodied so embodied being when it comes to the absolute the two of them are actually one and that's why sorry that's why for the two of them for Krishna there is no inner desire that will sabotage him externally of course maya is under his control because maya is under his control maya is his energy so in that sense there is no one to sabotage him whatever Krishna does is out of pure spiritual intention he also has desires so again this leads to a fundamental difference between Vaishnav understanding and impersonalist understanding the impersonalist understanding is that desire itself is an illusion they say desire is the cause of suffering and desirelessness will be the freedom from suffering the Bhagavatam also echoes this theme but in a particular context in the Pingala story it is concluded by saying that in the 11th canto in the Uddhav Gita that Asha hi paramam dukkham nairashyam paramam sukham the desire is the cause of great misery if we are free from desire then we will be free from misery we will become happy however if we see her prayers before that her realisations before that Pingala is speaking that now I am going to take shelter of Lord Narayan just as Lakshmi Devi takes shelter I am going to take shelter and I am going to serve him absorb myself in him, delight in him so she does have spiritual desires so now the impersonalist idea is all desires are the state of signify a state of illusion because the conception is that the state of purity is the state of desirelessness so when I desire something that means there is something outside of me there is I said that there is subject and there is object so if I see something then I desire it but the impersonalist idea is that the subject and the object both are illusion so then then how can there be anything desire at all because in a sense everything that exists is me that is their conception so what is there to desire at all there are many problems with this reasoning first of all the idea of subject object this is illusion and that's why the desire that comes that's also an illusion but the question that comes whenever we talk about illusion there has to be somebody who goes into illusion isn't it the whenever there is illusion if I am walking in a desert and I see a mirage you are an illusion yes it's possible that I am an illusion but I am an illusion I am not an illusion there has to be for illusion to be present there has to be some real pursuer who is an illusion I can be an illusion but I cannot be an illusion the observed can be an illusion the observer has to be real the mirage the seeing the desert as a mirage is an illusion but the seer itself has to be real otherwise there cannot be any perception of illusion at all there has to be some real pursuer so to dismiss the subject itself as illusion and therefore to say that all desires are illusion this is a serious misunderstanding as soon as there is a subject who is real that subject will observe and when we observe there are natural responses to what we observe when we observe something we like someone we don't like someone we desire something we don't like something we desire something very strongly something we don't desire so much this kind of duality is a natural result of desires so now the impersonalists hold that all duality is illusion and all that is there is oneness in Krishna there is oneness but what is the oneness? for Krishna the oneness is that his body, mind and soul are one so in that sense because his body, mind and soul are one there is no duality created within him because of anything inside him sabotaging or anything outside him sabotaging in the Nectar of Devotion introduction Prabhupada says that Krishna is actually all the five things in the Bhagavad Gita the five subjects are talked about that is Jiva, Ishvara, Prakriti, Kala and Karma there is a soul there is God there is material nature there is time and there is activity and he explains that actually Krishna is all these five so at one level we say Krishna is Ishvara, Krishna is God yes Krishna is God but the Bhagavad Gita does not offer a fragmented conception of a God who exists above his creation the Bhagavad Gita offers yes there is God as a person existing but God is also integrated with his creation in the sense that all of creation is his energy so there is nothing outside Krishna because Krishna is everything because Krishna is everything so for Krishna there is no duality in the sense that there is nothing outside him which he may desire or he may not desire now at the same time for Krishna he because he is Purna, he is complete everything exists inside him and in that sense there is no possibility for him to perceive anything wrongly he perceives everything purely he perceives everything absolutely whereas for us because we are subjects of perception and we see other, we are limited we see something else we see that thing from our perspective and our perspective is limited so we can go into illusion so the difference between Maya and Leela is what we are discussing right now and that difference comes primarily from who is the central actor in Maya it is the soul who is being deluded in Leela also there is a kind of illusion the illusion is Krishna forgets that he is God the devotees they don't remember that Krishna is God but this is all in the realm of transcendence this is all in the realm of transcendence because Krishna exists in the transcendental realm now we will talk about I will be taking two more classes on Saturday and Sunday at that time I will go deeper into the concept of Leela but here I will speak two more points about what happens when Krishna descends to this world when Krishna descends to this world at that time it's a very extraordinary phenomenon because the unlimited is manifesting in this limited world Krishna himself is unlimited Krishna shows his unlimitedness when Yashoda asks him to open his mouth and the whole universe is inside him but even inside the universe Yashoda sees herself looking at the mouth of Krishna so that means even when Krishna is inside the universe the universe is inside Krishna there is a paradox even when the universe is inside Krishna Krishna is inside the universe so the nature of God is that everything exists inside him and he exists inside everything nature of God is that everything exists inside him and he exists inside everything sarva-bhutastham atmanam sarva-bhutanichatmani ikshate yoga yuktatma sarvatra samadarshanah Bhagwan, Bhagwan ki jaya sarva-bhutastham atmanam here the word Atma refers to the supreme being this is 6.29 in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna is saying that sarva-bhutastham that all living beings exist in him so everything exists inside him sarva-bhutastham atmanam he says he exists in all living beings sarva-bhutanichatmani and all living beings exist inside him this is the inconceivable nature of God that he as it is said that he is greater than the greatest he is smaller than the smallest mahato mahiyan anoranyan now that absolute truth who exists beyond this world in his own abode when he descends to this world at that time the absolute truth is this is the junction between the material world and the spiritual world the spiritual world is here, the material world is here now when of course this kind of depiction it is fine for understanding the spiritual world is transcendental so we cannot really pin it down to a geographical location it's like say UK is here France is here it's not like that, geographically cover a distance and we go from UK to France the spiritual world is not in the geographical neighbourhood of the material world the spiritual world exists in a different level of existence it's only for the sake of depiction we say that ok the material world is here the spiritual world is here when we say show them as existing in neighbourhood we may get the conception that both exist at the same level of reality France and UK exist at the same level of reality India and Pakistan exist at the same level of reality go from India to Pakistan but the material world and spiritual world they exist at entirely different levels of reality that's why it's not just like they are not like next to each other there is one physical border you cross over and go over there the border is there but the border is not physical, the border is conceptual, the differentiation between spiritual and physical world spiritual world and physical world is primarily a difference of consciousness so when Krishna comes from the spiritual world to the material world it's not like say a person say takes a flight and comes from America to UK it's not like that, it's not just physical relocation that is involved over there because Krishna does not have a physical form the spiritual world does not have a physical location but the point which you are making is still when Krishna descends to this world that which is transcendental is being manifested in this world now how does the transcendental manifest so Jiva Goswami in his Sandarbha is very categorical in establishing that even when the lord comes in this world he doesn't come under illusion he remains transcendental he remains sublime how does that happen that is because he himself is the lord of material nature he is the lord of material nature Prabhupada gives a simple example which we will discuss much more in detail in the future class Prabhupada says that if there is a jail and normally people who reside in the jail are prisoners and they are under the ambit of the criminal law that's how they come in the jail and the king decides to visit the jail the king is not under the ambit of the criminal law although the king is geographically in the same location as those other people who are under the ambit of the criminal law the king is not so like that Krishna comes within the material world but he doesn't come under material consciousness because he is transcendental now why does Sri Prabhupada emphasise this concept that Krishna doesn't come under illusion because there are various other conceptions of the descent of the lord there are two main conceptions there is the there is the judeo-christian conception and then there is the impersonalist conception so in the christian conception actually the word incarnation that has come primarily from the from the christian tradition where jesus was expected to be the messiah and he was expected to deliver his people but when jesus was killed his followers were devastated and then for almost 4 centuries christians thereafter were debating who was jesus and finally after several centuries the nicene creed they decided that jesus was was both fully man and fully god so they said the divinity of christ was manifested in the humanity of jesus so their idea is jesus was fully human and fully god many reasons for this but their idea is that when jesus was about to die, when he was being crucified at that time he exhibited two radically different emotions when he was being raised on the cross and he was initially being crucified he cried out in agony oh father why have thou forsaken me why have thou forsaken me so this is a expression of doubting god, of questioning god of feeling abandoned by god and then later on he is said to have said that actually oh forgive them for they know not what they do so they said that at this time when he is actually being crucified initially at that time he is exhibiting his humanity that we humans may feel forsaken by god at times but when he is seeking the forgiveness he is manifesting his divinity he is acting as god, all forgiving so either way the christians have the idea that when god descends to this world they have the word incarnation the very word incarnation has a particular meaning that karna means flesh like we have carnivorous animals so carnivorous animals means those which eat flesh so incarnation means to come in flesh like we have the word reincarnation to come again in flesh to come again in the material body so incarnation means to come in flesh so when god comes in flesh that is god came as jesus that's what they call as incarnation now prabhupada was very categorical and when krishna comes in this world he does not come in flesh so the word incarnation has one meaning come in flesh but the word incarnation also means manifestation so prabhupada uses the word incarnation in the sense of manifestation just appears but not in flesh so the if we have the idea that when krishna comes to this world he comes in flesh then that means he has got a material body and that means that material body will be subjected to material illusions the impersonalist idea is that god when he descends to this world he actually comes he is the absolute truth covered by illusion the absolute truth is impersonal but that absolute truth temporarily becomes personal so we will talk about this also again later but more in detail when you contrast the impersonalist understanding of leela with the vaishnav understanding of leela but why is it important to understand that krishna does not come in a material form because krishna is capable of delivering us krishna is always beyond maya and he is always capable of taking us beyond maya so one way of trying to overcome illusion is through discrimination this is maya this is false, this is real this is temptation this is serious practise so one way of trying to overcome temptation is through discrimination the other way of overcoming illusion is through devotion devotion means we just surrender to krishna we take shelter of krishna now we may use discrimination in service of our devotion but in bhakti our basis of overcoming maya, overcoming temptation is not discrimination this is false, this is real devotees are not constantly obsessed with that devotees focus is how can i serve krishna devotees focus is it is through the power of devotion if i serve krishna, krishna will protect me, it is not that by my intelligence this is temptation i will not fall for it devotees are not thinking that way we use the intelligence but we use the intelligence not to overcome temptation, we use the intelligence to serve krishna and as a part of our service to krishna we also fight against temptations but our focus we don't think that it is by our discrimination we will overcome illusion it is by our devotion that krishna will free us from illusion and if we have to have the devotion, that faith underlying that krishna will free us from illusion we have to have the faith that krishna is beyond illusion so even when krishna performs leela, even when krishna is mukta eva he is not under illusion, prabhupada explains in the purport over here that krishna would kill the demons when it was necessary but still he was just performing leela he was not affected now when we have to fight a war even if there is a war for a just cause see it is a very serious matter it is a very serious matter where we have to plan and we have to anticipate attacks and prepare for counter attacks but for krishna it was simply plain, krishna was not at all at this material level of reality, krishna was fully at the transcendental level of reality, absorbed in devotion, absorbed in pure reciprocation of love he does effortlessly now for krishna he broke the tree he killed the demon but he simply used the killing of the demon as a means to further his own leela, his leela was in the forest he wanted to eat fruits, so he killed the demon and he ensured that the demon's body fell in such a way that fruits fell down and he ate the fruits so for him killing the demon was just like a passing business, it was not the central activity of his life it was krishna was never caught in the hubbub in the passion in the illusion of material existence krishna always remains transcendental and by having faith in krishna's transcendence we can by surrendering to him also gradually rise towards transcendence so to summarise I spoke today continuing on the discussion of the nature of illusion and how krishna is not an illusion I spoke about the the impersonalist, the concept of illusion, where does illusion come from there is a core intention and there is a there is a peripheral temptation or peripheral desire, peripheral proposition that comes now if the inner conflict exists when there is a difference between intention and proposition so the bhagavad gita uses desires in two metaphors of restraining that as shackles and as net as jala so we feel of desires as energising, if we want to give it to the desires but if we want to do something else and then the desires are obstructing us, just like a person who is wanting to drink alcohol, for them the desire for alcohol is energising but for a person who wants to give up alcohol the desire for alcohol is restraining, so the struggle between what we intend to do and what we feel like doing, that is the domain of inner struggle if somebody is totally materialistic then they don't feel the struggle, if somebody is fully spiritual they don't feel the struggle, in between we feel the struggle and the proposition may come externally through some perception or the proposition may come internally through some recollection and in either case we have to stay fixed in our intention and how to do that? we understand that the external perception as a seeing the degraded scene, that is the result of past karma, so we live in Kaliyuga where there are so many temptations that's because of our own past karma that pure life is so difficult but just as the environmental weather environmental climate is a result of that we live in, is a result of our past karma, similarly our emotional weather, some of us may be more moody, some of us suddenly start feeling greedy, envious, angry but then this we also understand is a result of past karma so just calm, tolerate, it will go away in due course of time and the impersonalist idea is that desire itself is an illusion but desire is not an illusion because there has to be perception can be an illusion, perceiver has to be real but Krishna is real for him the body, mind and soul are one so that's why there is no sabotaging of his intentions, there is no his coming under illusion because for us the soul has its spiritual intention but the mind and the body they come up with various propositions that's how we go into illusion and Krishna Krishna is not just a god Krishna is not just one among the five truths, Ishwara, Jiva, Kala, Karma, Prakrti, Krishna is Ishwara but Krishna is also all the five truths because Krishna is everything exists as Krishna's energy so Krishna is not Krishna is not just a god who exists above the creation Krishna is also a god who pervades all of creation and when we when Krishna descends to this world he doesn't take a body of matter, he is he does not incarnate in the sense of taking a fleshly body he doesn't come under illusion at all the Christian conception of incarnation is that god becomes human when he comes but Vaishnava understanding is that Krishna always remains transcendental and we as devotees we don't focus primarily on our discrimination, although we need to discriminate but we don't focus on discrimination to resist the proposition to focus on our intention, we just focus on Krishna and try to serve Krishna we overcome illusion not so much by discrimination as by devotion, the more we have conviction that Krishna is transcendental then by our devotion to Krishna we have the faith that Krishna will make us transcendental, Krishna will weaken the propositions that are coming and Krishna will strengthen our intentions and we will be able to march steadily towards it. Thank you very much.

Hare Krishna Any questions or comments? You can just speak, I'll repeat I wanted to ask a question from yesterday you mentioned about how Maya was why there were options I didn't quite understand that because when things come around us by our intelligence we are able to evaluate those situations to create options but there are some things that we won't even consider as options so then I wasn't so sure how is Maya presenting options? So when Maya presents options to us how exactly does she do so because there are some things which we won't even consider as options, yes that is based on our past culture past upbringing so certain things are not even temptations for us that's just all of us are what comprises temptations for us is also determined by our past karma now for a for a pig halwa is not a temptation because it has got a particular body which shapes the scope of its desires so for us what is food for the pig is not a temptation at all it causes revulsion because our scope of temptation is determined firstly by the body that we have and similarly the scope of what comprises temptation is also determined by the mind that we have so somebody has come from India they have never heard of baseball the baseball match is going on they won't feel any temptation but a cricket match is going on, big temptation why? because by our by the way our mind has been shaped by our past and present actions the scope of our temptation is determined so when you say Maya gives us options it is within the scope of our temptations and sometimes the scope also expands a person comes from India to America and their friend takes them to watch baseball and they watch once, twice thrice, then they also get tempted, so the scope can increase the scope can decrease also some of us might have been eating meat earlier but once you start practising bhakti if we are going in a plane or a train and we see somebody eating meat we don't feel tempted at least for that temptation we can say we curl our lips in distaste and we look away so what has happened? the scope of temptation has decreased so Maya gives us temptations usually Maya gives us options within the scope of our temptations just at the end you are mentioning about our focus should be on surrendering to Krishna or having faith in Krishna trying to distract ourselves from the options in the mind and the mind is coming from the mode of goodness originally because the mind is focused is unmoving but in the Bhagavatam it says that the intelligence is mode of passion so why is intelligence passion and the mind goodness? why is intelligence in the mode of passion and the mind in the mode of goodness? because it's talking about material intelligence there, it's not talking about spiritual intelligence which comes from Guru Sadhu Shastra the mind keeps us where we are in material existence, mind's function is maintenance the intelligence expands the scheme for material enjoyment so with the material intelligence we come up with newer and newer ways of enjoyment I like to look at beautiful objects but today with internet the images from all over the world can be brought in and can be seen with just one click so what is happening? now to develop the internet it requires intelligence but this is intelligence which is used in the service of illusion not intelligence used to overcome illusion, it is intelligence used to be overcome by illusion, unfortunately so the material intelligence it creates newer and newer plans and arrangements for expanding material enjoyment so the intelligence when it is divorced from spiritual understanding that is considered to be the mode of passion yes, thank you you had a question? yes, we will come to you thank you can you explain the psychology mechanics of the way a monist or a mayavadi thinks, can you explain the distinction between that psychology and the psychology of the brahmavadi and the brahmavadi is there a difference ok what is the difference between the way brahmavadi thinks and the way mayavadi thinks the main difference is in their attitude towards the personal manifestation of god the brahmavadis they either don't know about the personal manifestation or they are not attracted to the personal manifestation because they have not met devotees who are attracted to the personal manifestation bhakti sanjayate bhakti whereas the mayavadis they know about the personal manifestation and they deem the personal manifestation to be a temporary illusion that needs to be transcended to attain the higher impersonal realisation so they consider our form to be maya, they consider Krishna's form also to be maya so that's how they become offenders so brahmavadis are just not concerned whether the personal form is there it is not there, they are not concerned about it but the mayavadis systematically argue that the personal form is also an illusion and we need to go beyond the personal to the impersonal that is where it becomes offensive so do the brahmavadis think about the subject and object as illusion generally the brahmavadis they have the idea of impersonal oneness but they do not they do not it's more of they are attracted to that particular manifestation and that's where they go and naturally they will have a world view which suits that but they don't go on a mission to denigrate the form of the lord their conception is also oneness that is their aspiration but they are not on campaign to deride the personal manifestation of the lord so Krishna talks about this in say in mayavad in 7.24 9.11 and 12 where he says those people they are they are all hopefully frustrated because they completely misunderstand so this is mayavad he is talking about but then in 12.3 and 4 he talks about how the impersonalist also attain him those who are attracted to the impersonal they will also attain him because they are not offending the personal manifestation thank you yes ok so by the practise of bhakti if the conflict if we can overcome desire and focus on the pure intention if after many years this has not happened then what can we do see first of all the as devotees a devotee desires but a devotee does not demand Prabhupada writes in third canto parport in the kardamuni pastime that the devotee desires the darshan of the lord but the devotee doesn't demand the darshan of the lord similarly as devotees we desire purity we want to be pure hearted but we don't demand Krishna free from all desires the desire definitely has to be there for purity but not demanding now what can happen for us by the practise of bhakti is that the intention will become stronger and stronger the circumstantial propositions they will keep coming but they will become weaker and weaker we will not be so inclined towards them in the parport of 2.70 Krishna is saying that just as rivers enter into an ocean but the ocean is not disturbed similarly desires enter into the consciousness of the advanced spiritualist but they are not agitated so this is there Prabhupada writes that the desires may come but the inclination to fulfil the desires is no longer there so this is a very interesting verse because normally we consider desires as flowing outwards so I see an object and I desire to eat, I desire to watch I desire to touch the desires flow outwards from us to the object but here Krishna is talking about desires flowing outwards inwards from the object to us so the river is flowing into the ocean so he is talking about the desires flowing from outside to inside and he uses the word nakamakami nakamakami means one who is not the desirer of desire not the desirer of desire, what that means is from outside the desire flows in that means say the temptation comes in we see some object but there is no desire that is generated within I want this, yeah I see it it is good but I am not interested so that as we keep practising bhakti the circumstantial desire will become lesser and lesser and the core intention will become stronger and stronger but Krishna does say that for most of us we should be ready to resist the temptations throughout our life Krishna tells Arjuna that tolerate tolerate the force of desire and anger till what point? till the time we give up this body as long as the body is there certain desires will be generated from the body but if we can tolerate them a person will be situated well connected, well situated in yoga and that person will be happy so over a period of time as long as we identify with the circumstantial proposition that is coming enjoy this no I am not meant to enjoy this as long as we identify with the circumstantial proposition saying no to it seems like deprivation and it becomes more difficult but the more we become practised, seasoned in the practise of bhakti, the more we identify with the core intention rather than saying oh I have to give up this for this, I have to give up this enjoyment for practising bhakti gradually as we keep practising bhakti we start realising actually for this enjoyment I will have to give up this and bhakti itself becomes it's not that in devotion we are always dancing in ecstasy but when we are practising bhakti there is a sublime peace, there is a deep sense of purposeful fulfilment that is there, I am doing something meaningful in my life I am doing something fruitful in my life so with that understanding then we start seeing worldly indulgence as deprivation initially we see giving up worldly indulgence, we see worldly abstinence as deprivation of sensual pleasure but later on we start seeing indulgence as deprivation of spiritual fulfilment that much time I am getting disconnected from Krishna I am missing out on the joy of connecting with Krishna, why should I do it so when that happens then even if the desire has come, we won't be so tempted by them so rather than thinking about oh is it that lifelong I will have to tolerate this, no we can just see it as this moment I have to decide what should I do and if we just keep saying no at each moment, life will go on, what happens is if I have to carry this Bhagavatam for maybe one minute five minutes it's ok but if I have to think I have to carry this lifelong I better put it down right away so like that if you think that you know I will have to keep fighting these desires lifelong then that will dishearten us so yes at an intellectual level we understand that the desires may keep coming I may have to keep fighting but at a practical level you have to think that the battle is simply moment to moment, at this moment if I choose Krishna that is all that I need to do throughout my life, it's only when we think oh I have to renounce lifelong then it becomes how can I do it how can I keep battling lifelong just focus on this moment at this moment can I choose Krishna yes I can next moment yes I can choose Krishna so that way the choosing of Krishna if we keep doing then saying no becomes much easier over a period of time, we will still have to say no but saying no becomes much easier does that answer the question thank you very much.