Ramayana series 2 – Maricha’s miscalculation – Our destination is not as important as our action

[Talk at Phoenix, USA]

Video:

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
He says, ज्यानं गेयं ज्यानं गम्यं, that the absolute truth is the source of knowledge. He is the object of knowledge and he is the objective of knowledge. So, what is the difference between object of knowledge and objective of knowledge? It’s like a student may study in college and they are studying physics.
They may have no interest per se in physics. They are studying physics because they just want to get a good job and earn a lot of money. Their primary interest is in money.
So, the object of knowledge is physics but the objective of knowledge is money. So, this sort of dichotomy is not necessarily wrong. But I am just making the point that there is object and objective can be two different things.
In our secular life, in our general life, this kind of dichotomy may be there. But in spiritual life, the object of knowledge and the objective of knowledge are the same. We are studying about Krishna so that we can learn to love Krishna.
Our goal is not that we worship Krishna and get somewhere where we have no connection with Krishna. If we do not understand this, the object of knowledge and the objective of knowledge, the two are not in harmony. Then that can lead to dissonance.
Resonance is when two sounds come together in a nice way. Dissonance is when two sounds come together in a disharmonious way. So, in the Ramayana, Maricha is a very distinctive character.
He is one character who seems to have a change of heart. There are two demoniac characters in the Ramayana who seem to have a change of heart. Apart from Maricha, who is the other one? Yes, Vibhishan.
Actually, we can’t compare the two. It’s not that Vibhishan has a change of heart. His heart is already changed.
He is always devoted to Ram. But he changes his side. Basically, a person who was born in a demoniac family exhibits non-demoniac qualities, divine qualities.
So, Maricha is also like that. Maricha appears in the Ramayana for the first time when he and along with Subahu and Tataka they are vandalising the sacrifices that are being performed by Vishwamitra. And Vishwamitra asks for Ram’s help.
And Ram along with Lakshman come to the sacrifice arena and they guard. At that time when all of them start attacking, Subahu and Maricha are actually subordinate in a sense to Tataka. Tataka is the primary person who attacks and Ram and Lakshman counter all of them.
So, in the course of the fight, Ram hits Maricha with an extremely powerful arrow. But that arrow happens to be a blunt arrow. So, there are some arrows which are meant to kill and there are some arrows which are meant to stun.
Some arrows which are meant to push back simply. Just like say sometimes police, they may use something called stun guns. They use the guns which are just not meant to kill but to stun the person.
Sometimes they use guns which are meant to temporarily immobilise people. Then they don’t want to permanently maim them. So, like that there are different kinds of arrows.
So, Ram uses an arrow which hits Maricha with such great force that Maricha is flung back far into the sky. And this was such a powerful demon that actually he could pick up huge trees and fling them far away. But what happens to him is that he is flung far, far away.
So far away that he is astounded. He is horrified. He falls far away.
He does not die but he is at one level infuriated at being flung away like this. Two wrestlers are fighting say. And even if one wrestler knocks down the other wrestler and defeats that’s bad.
Wrestler who has fallen down will feel angry. But if one wrestler punches and the other wrestler flies back into the audience and falls over there. That would be humiliating for the wrestler who has been flung back like that.
So, he feels humiliated at having been flung like this. At the same time he is also horrified to think of the power of Ram. Later on, when Ram is in the exile, later on once again he encounters Ram.
When Ram is in the forest he encounters Ram and he tries to attack him again. This time taking the form of a huge demon. And again Ram uses a similar strategy and flings him far away.
And this time he understands and he starts living in fear. He becomes so fearful that just the sound if anybody speaks that he thinks that Ram is coming. And that indicates that Ram may shoot with his arrows.
He becomes extremely paranoid. And then he gives up his demoniac activities and starts living like an ascetic. Has his own small hermitage.
And he starts performing penances hoping to avoid the fate of being destroyed by Ram’s arrows. And in the scriptures it is said that whatever we think of continuously, we attract that situation to ourselves. So, by thinking repeatedly of Ram’s arrows, he ends up being the target of Ram’s arrows.
In modern psychology, they talk about this principle as the power of intention or the power of attraction. Whatever we think about, we will attract to ourselves. Now this has to be understood carefully.
It is true, but it is not an absolute principle. So, there are some self-help books which claim that whatever you think about with conscious intention, you will get that. So, there are videos where they show a woman goes by a jewellery shop and she sees a beautiful necklace over there.
And then she looks at it and she tells the conscious intention world, next day she is wearing that necklace. A man goes by a car shop and he sees a car showroom and he sees an attractive car and looks at it, develops his conscious intention and next day he is riding that car. Now, this is actually imagination.
Where one has elevated one’s own thought process to the level of omnipotence. You think that whatever I think about, I will achieve it. At a simple level, we are all going to grow old.
We are going to get deceased. We are going to die. And no amount of positive thinking is going to stop this.
Yes, it is not that we have to think ourselves old and sickly. We should try to be as healthy as possible. But the ageing process is inevitable.
Even if a person who thinks by the power of conscious intention, I am not going to die. I am not going to die. I am not going to die.
A person dies. Yamunuta has come there. I am not going to die.
You are dead. So, just by our thoughts, we can’t change reality. Just by our thoughts.
But that does not mean that our thoughts have no power. One extreme is to think that our thoughts alone determine the reality. The other extreme is to think that the reality is what it is and our thoughts make no difference.
Actually, our thoughts at the very least, they affect our endeavour. So, if we are doing something. If somebody is learning to do something.
If they are learning to cook, learning to drive, learning to swim, learning to play a game. They are always thinking, I won’t be able to do it. I won’t be able to do it.
That negative thinking will sabotage their efforts. And they will not be able to do it. Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita, in the 15th chapter that there are five factors which determine the result of an action.
Adhishthanam tatha karta, karanam cha prathak vidha, vividhaas cha prathak cheshta, daivam chaivatra panchamam. Adhishtha is the sphere of action, the body. Karta is the doer, the soul.
Karanam is the senses. Vidhaas cha prathak cheshta, the endeavour is the fourth factor. And daivam, destiny is the fifth factor.
So now, when we direct our endeavour, so a simple way to understand is right now I am speaking. So, my body has to be in a basically healthy condition for me to speak. The specific organ that I am using for speaking, throat has to be functional.
And the soul has to be present in the body. Without that no action can happen. And then when a person is speaking there has to be endeavour to speak coherently, to speak effectively.
Some amount of endeavour is required. And daivam, even when all these are there, there is the element of destiny. Which alone makes things happen.
I may come here where there is a big gathering and there is no power supply. I may speak but nobody may be able to hear. I may want to come here but along the road there is traffic and I can’t reach it.
So many things can go wrong and despite all our planning things may not work out. So daivam, destiny, which is ultimately the will of the absolute, that is the fifth factor. Now when we desire to do something, then destiny reciprocates also by putting all the things in place.
So for example, if we are determined to do something then our own senses perform in the best possible way. Our endeavours become more focused. So our intention doesn’t create reality alone.
But our intention can function in terms of attracting destiny to reciprocate. Of course reciprocation is not unconditional but reciprocation is there. So the point which I am making is our thoughts they are not omnipotent but they are also not impotent.
They have potency and that’s why having a positive, confident, assertive attitude is valuable in actualising our intentions. Now conversely when we worry, by worrying about something, the power of our intention attracts that thing. That which we don’t want we attract by worrying about it.
So if I worry constantly, what if I get cancer? What if I get cancer? Now my thinking alone won’t give me cancer. But that thinking can set up such circumstances by which unwittingly I eat the kind of foods, expose myself to the kind of environments and by which I may become vulnerable. So the thoughts alone don’t create reality.
But the thoughts are not utterly are not entirely a non-factor in the creation of reality. So in the case of Maricha because he is constantly thinking, Ram’s arrows, Ram’s arrows they have been hit twice by those arrows. He feared that those arrows would come and hit him again.
And that exactly was what happened eventually. So when this happened, how did this work out? So he was living the life of ascetic but in the meanwhile, Ravana had a desire to get even with Ram by abducting Sita. And he came to Maricha asking for Maricha’s help.
Maricha was an expert shape shifter. Many demons have shape changing abilities. But the extent of the shape change that they can do, that’s limited.
But Maricha, he was a specialist in that. It’s like some of us, all of us may be able to sing. But some people are extraordinarily singers.
All of us may be able to do some kind of yoga exercises. But some people have their body is like a rubber band. It can shift anyway.
It’s super flexible. So there is a scale of abilities. So the demons are a class of beings who have certain abilities which humans don’t have.
One of them is the shape changing ability. But even among the shape changing ability, the extent of the variation is different for different people. So Ravana, he came to Maricha to ask him to change his shape so that he could assume the form of entirely another species.
He told him, you become a deer and you lure Ram away. As soon as he spoke the word Ram, Maricha became horrified. And then he heard about the full plan to antagonise Ram.
He said, what enemy of you has advised you to do such a thing? Ram’s power is so great that even the greatest of the gods or the greatest of the demons cannot combat him. Those who try to provoke him will themselves be destroyed. Do not antagonise Ram in any way.
Now Ravana became circumspect. He knew that Maricha was a powerful demon. And he respected Maricha’s words.
He respected Maricha’s assessment of Ram’s strength. And he had himself seen that also. Ravana had positioned at an outpost in Janasthan, 14,000 of his demons headed by Khara and Dushan, along with another demon, Trishira.
And Ram had single handedly overcome all of them. This was an incredible display of strength. So he had heard about his action and he had actually got that vindicated.
So he went back. At this point, Ravana’s intention, Ravana was not so particularly enamoured by Sita at this particular point. His goal was simply to use Sita as a tool to get back at Ram.
But when he went back, what happened was, just as he was trying to use Sita to get back at Ram, he himself became a target of someone’s manipulation. Who was that? Surpanakha. She came back and she felt humiliated.
Because Lakshmana had disfigured her. So she tried to goad Ravana into action, saying that, yes, what kind of king are you? I am a sister. I’ve been dishonoured and you’re doing nothing.
It’s interesting, the accusation that she gave is, she said that a king is meant to be responsible to protect the citizens. But you are a king with uncontrolled senses. Accusing a demon of having uncontrolled senses.
And a demon also gets angry on hearing this. He says that, because your senses are uncontrolled, so you have forgotten your responsibilities. And that’s why you’re just enjoying over here while the citizens are suffering.
So Ravana is angered at this public accusation. He says, what are you talking about? And then when he sees her disfigured nose, he asks, what? Who did this to you? And then she says, Ram did this. As soon as he hears the word Ram, all his anger disappears.
And he knows enough not to antagonise Ram. Because he also is aware at this particular point that he does not have immunity against humans. As per the benediction that he has got from the gods.
So, then Shurpanakha starts describing Sita’s beauty inside herself. And once he gets incited, at that time Ram says that once we contemplate on the sense objects, the result is that we lose our intelligence. Sammohat smriti vibhrama smriti bhramashad buddhi nashod buddhi nashad pranashyati So from contemplation to destruction of intelligence is like a ramp.
If there is a ramp, if you put some luggage on the ramp and it’s inclined, the luggage will just slide down that way. So like that, on the ramp of our thoughts, if we let the thought of a sense object come there, then it just keeps going down, down, down. And as it keeps going down, down, down, the desire for it becomes stronger and stronger.
And eventually, it basically destroys whatever it comes in the way. In some places, there are snowballs. Sometimes, if there is a sloping mountain, hill, at the top, snow falls.
And the snow slides down, down, down. And if it comes down, it can destroy the settlements that are there. So then, they may have some barricades at the bottom of the hill.
So that the snow, the snowball is formed. Snowball comes and hits the barricade and stops over there. Now, this kind of barricades are prepared, but they can withstand only snowballs of a particular size.
But if the snowball is very big, then by the time it comes down, down, its size becomes so huge that whatever barricade is made, it’s knocked off. And the snowball moves forward and can destroy the settlements there. Similarly, for us, when some unworthy desires come within us, at that time, our intelligence is meant to be like a barricade.
No, I shouldn’t be doing this. But, if the contemplation becomes too much, by that, the momentum of that desire becomes so strong that whatever barricade is there, it’s overthrown. And thus, this is what happened to Aavana.
Earlier, with his intelligence, no, I’m not going to antagonise around. But now, when the desire became strong, he lost his intelligence. And then, again, he went back to Maricha.
And he told Maricha, I have not come here to ask for your suggestions. I have come here to give you instruction. Maricha tried to speak to him when he told his plan.
I want you to do what I have told you to do. He tried to make him see sense, but by this time, Maricha, Ravana had lost all his intelligence. Actually, we never, when we get overcome by desires, the desires don’t destroy our intelligence.
The desires, they cause our intelligence to defect. To defect means to go from one side to another. That means, at this point, Ravana’s intelligence was not just destroyed.
Ravana’s intelligence had become a servant of his desires. Our intelligence is meant to be the observer of our desires, the evaluator of our desires. Should I do this? Should I not do this? But if the intelligence becomes the servant of the desire, then whatever we are planning to do, we think that I’ll do it in such a way that I can do it and get away with it.
So, many times people think that actually the problem is not doing the wrong thing. The problem is getting caught for doing the wrong thing. I saw a traffic related joke.
It said that a cop is asking a person who is speedy Did you not see the speed limit? Yes, cop. I saw the speed limit. I just didn’t see you.
So, the idea is that the problem is not doing the wrong thing. The problem is getting caught while doing the wrong thing. That’s what people think.
So, Ravana also thought that if I can abduct Sita without having to confront Ram, then after I go to Lanka Lanka is impregnable. Ram will never be able to come. So, in this way I can fulfil my desire without having to fight with Ram.
So, the whole scheme required intelligence. But the intelligence was not used intelligently. The intelligence was used foolishly instead of intelligently.
So, intelligence is a resource and how we use it is up to us. So, here he used his intelligence to make this whole plan and when Maricha was still reluctant, Maricha realised that he will not be able to convince Ram, Ravana, but then he was himself hesitant to participate. Then Ravana in typical demoniac fashion shoot an ultimatum.
What is the ultimatum? Do or die. It’s my way or the graveyard. You have to do what I tell you.
Otherwise I will kill you. Now, Maricha started thinking at this point. Although he was himself ascetic and although he was himself a powerful demon, he was no match to Ravana.
So, he couldn’t fight with Ravana and have a chance of winning. At the same time, if he was killed by Ravana he thought that I don’t know what destination I will get. But if I try to allure Ram away, eventually Ram will kill me.
So, death is unavoidable. He said, let me think which death would be more auspicious. So, he thought that death at the hands of Ram would be more auspicious.
In the scriptures it is said that those who die at the hands of Ram, at the hands of the Lord they are also elevated. So, therefore he went according to the whole plan. And most of you know the story, so I won’t go into that story at this point.
But he allured Sita and Sita said, Ram, please get this deer for me. And she wanted it as a pet so that she could have it for herself while they were there. And then she could go and take it with her to Ayodhya and offer it to Kaushalya as a gift from their forest.
And Ram went to catch the deer and the deer kept running away. And Ram came, would close in on it and suddenly it would take a huge leap and disappear. And as this happened once, twice, thrice, eventually Ram went on deep into the forest.
And then when the deer suddenly took a huge leap and went further away, just when Ram was about to catch it, Ram realised this is beyond the ability of any ordinary deer. Not only would it take huge leaps, sometimes it would just disappear and reappear at another place. And Ram realised that something fishy is going on over here.
Then he decided to shoot Maricha. And as he shot the arrow Maricha is, for many demons they require some power to change their form and to exhibit their artificial form, whatever form they are in. But when they are terribly wounded and their life is itself a thread, at that time whatever form they have assumed, that garb disappears.
It’s just like some of us may speak in a different voice. This may be my normal voice but sometimes I may impersonate and speak in somebody else’s voice. I may use a high pitched voice or a more muffled kind of voice.
So I can do that. But if I am in great danger, then at that time if I am drowning and I have to call out for help, I will forget about muffling my voice. My attention will be only survival.
What will come out is my normal voice. So like that for the demons, they may often assume different forms but when they are about to die the energy that they have invested in assuming that other form that energy is no longer available. That’s why they relapse to their original form.
This happens with Putana also. She looks like a normal, very attractive, nursing woman who is going to come and nurse Krishna. But when Krishna starts taking away her life hair, then her form changes and her ghastly gigantic form comes up.
So similarly with respect to Maricha when he is hit by this lethal arrow, his demonic form comes up. But with whatever little resource he has he uses it to call out. Oh Lakshman! Oh Sita! Help! And he calls this out in the voice of Ram.
When he calls out like this Lakshman and Sita, the idea is they will think that Ram is in trouble and Lakshman will go out to help and Sita will be left alone. And that whole plan goes along that way. Now as he speaks like this, Ram realises that this was a whole conspiracy to get Lakshman away.
And he turns around and he departs. As he is turning around, he is glaring at this demon who has tried to trick him. So he is looking at Maricha, Maricha is looking at him.
At that time, Maricha leaves. He leaves his body. He dies.
So he does get his purpose of dying in the presence of Ram at the hands of Ram fulfilled. But what he does is not considered devotional. He is concerned about his destination.
Oh, if I die at Ram’s hand that’s auspicious. But destination alone is not important. Intention also is important.
Maricha is never considered as an example of devotion. Because he did not act in a devotional way. On the other hand, we see that Jatayu, just a few hours later, Jatayu tries to protect Sita from being abducted by Ravana.
He also dies. And he dies at the hands of Ravana. But because he is dying for Ram’s sake, eventually Ram comes by his side and Ram blesses him.
And Ram performs his last rites. So Maricha knows this point that if I die at the hands of the Lord I will be liberated. But liberation is not simply moving to a particular location.
Liberation is a change of consciousness. The change of intention. Sometimes we may see in the books this is the material world, this is the spiritual world.
This is here, this is here. This is USA and this is Canada. So we think that there is a geographical continuity.
This is here and that is there. But the spiritual world is not in another location. It is at another level of reality.
It exists at a higher level of reality. And going there is not just a matter of getting there. It’s a matter of getting the right consciousness to stay there.
There is the story of Durvasa Muni who actually goes to the Vaikuntha. But he is going there, oh Vishnu save me from the Sudarshan. He goes there but he can’t stay there.
He has to come back from there. So Maricha thinks that oh if I just remember the Lord at the time of death, if I am seeing Him being killed by Him, that’s enough. But actually what is required is not just at whose hands we die but with what consciousness we die.
With what consciousness we have lived. If we miss out on this essential purpose that spiritual growth is not just a matter of externals. It’s a matter of internal change.
Of redirecting our heart. Then we may do all the externals but we will not grow spiritually. The externals are meant to promote the internals.
External is not important. But what is the point of it all? The point is that a change of heart. And Maricha has no change of heart.
He is actually still self-centred in his devotion. His idea is that he doesn’t think that God is the destination of my life. He thinks God is a tool to the destination.
The destination is to be liberated. And he thinks God is a tool to that. But God is not the tool.
God is the goal. So this misunderstanding is what keeps him from attaining devotion. Liberation is not just a change of physical location.
Liberation is actually a change of consciousness. A change of disposition. And without getting that, changing externals is not going to work.
So Maricha’s calculations are they are self-centred. Now you may say, what could he have done? Ravana threatened him with death. So he had no option in that.
Not necessarily. He was a demon. He could have thought of this demonic intelligence.
Some options. He didn’t want to die at Ravana’s hands. But he could have said to Ravana that I’ll go along with you.
I’ll do what you say. But then eventually, instead of taking on a dearest form which allures Sita and then takes Ram away, he could have gone to Ram and taken shelter of Ram. And if he had told Ram that this was the plan and he had helped Ram to thwart the conspiracy after Sita, Ram would surely have been protective for him.
Like Vibhishan. Yeah, Vibhishan took the help of Vibhishan came over to Ram’s side and Ram protected him. So he did not do that.
So he knew spiritual knowledge that if we die in the proximity of the Lord, if we die at the hands of the Lord, we get elevated. But he did not know the purpose of spiritual knowledge. The purpose of spiritual knowledge is actually to become devoted to the Lord.
If that purpose is forgotten, one can go through the actions. But going through the actions is important to the extent it changes our intentions. If we just go through the actions without changing our intentions, then we are not growing spiritually.
So Maricha represents devotion motivated by fear. He does practise some kind of devotion. He has some devotion understanding.
He is practising asceticism. But it is motivated by fear. Ram should not come and kill me.
That’s why I do asceticism. Ram is not an enemy who is out to kill us. He is our greatest well-wisher.
When I was in college, I had a friend who was almost atheistic, never interested in anything spiritual. And then recently, he called me and he asked me, he was staying in a particular city. Is there any temple nearby? He says, Iskcon Temple.
I would like to go and give some donation there. I told him about whichever temple was there. I asked him, Have you become more interested in God? He says, You were never interested.
What inspired you to give this donation? He says, No, no, I am not interested in God at all. I am just starting a new business. If God exists, He should not create any trouble for me.
Now God is not a trouble creator for anyone. He is actually a person who relieves us from trouble. But when we are motivated by fear, then the idea is that we see God negatively.
And then at that level, again we are seeing God as a tool. I want my business to prosper and I am giving some donation to God. That’s good.
So there is fear which is good. In the Bible it is said, Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. But fear of God is not the end of wisdom.
It is the beginning. It is like a small child and the parent tells you should not go on the road because some vehicle may come and knock you over. Don’t run, don’t play on the streets.
And the child plays on the street, the father shouts, the mother shouts. The child becomes fearful. No, I should not do this.
That’s good, that level of fear. But fear shouldn’t be the defining emotion in the relationship. Child has to grow up, child has to see that my parents love me, they care for me.
And the child also wants to love the parents back. So that defining emotion has to be affection. Has to be love.
And as a part of love there is fear. Fear can also be of different types. There can be fear that if I do this wrong, I will be punished.
There can also be fear that if I do this, I will displease my loved ones, I will hurt my loved ones. There can also be fear that by doing this, I may get alienated from my loved ones. So all these are different levels of fear.
So when we are allowed to do something wrong, one level could be that if I do this, there is a law of karma, I will get consequences, so I don’t want to do this. That is also good. Other can be that I want to develop an emotional relationship with the Lord.
And I want to please Him, not displease Him. So if I do this, I will displease Him, so I want to avoid it. If I do this, then by doing this, my consciousness will become covered more and more by materialism.
If it gets covered by materialism, then I will get distanced from my Lord. Therefore I don’t want to do this. So all these kinds of fear can be positive.
But the driving emotion is not fear. It’s like when we are driving, a little fear is good. I shouldn’t veer off track.
I shouldn’t ram into some other car. I should take care that my car tyres have enough air, that there is enough fuel, the brakes are working. A little fear can act as a protector.
But when we are driving a car, the primary emotion is not fear. Hey, what if an accident happens? No, the primary emotion is I want to get to a particular destination. So similarly, when we approach the Lord, the primary emotion is not fear.
The primary emotion is we want to approach a destination. And that destination is the Lord Himself. So when there is religion or devotion practised at the level of fear, then the Lord is not the object of devotion.
He is simply a tool for avoiding trouble. And that is a very reductionistic, distorted, limited conception of God. But what the Ramayana reveals is that the Lord is the benefactor of everyone.
And He is rather than thinking about at whose hands I die, for where I die, we focus on for whom do I live, and for whom, for what purpose am I living. Prabhupada was in, he retired from his business. He was staying in Vrindavan.
And many people, when they have some pious inflammations, they think that the perfection of life is to leave one’s body in Vrindavan, in a holy place like Vrindavan or Mayapur or Kashi or some other place like that. And sometimes people take a vrata that I will never leave this place. That’s called a vrata of Kshetra Sannyas.
That I will stay in this place and it’s like all Kshetra apart from this Kshetra, all places apart from this place, I have renounced. I will live here and I will leave from here. So many people they take that kind of form.
When Prabhupada was in Vrindavan, at that time he would come to Vrindavan, but he would leave again. He would go to Delhi to get his magazines printed, back-to-world magazines printed, to get it distributed. And then he would again come back, again go and then he went to Jhansi, he went to different places.
So, the temple where he was staying, the pujari there was surprised. He says, Swamiji, why is he going again and again? He thought that he has renounced the world, why doesn’t he stay peaceful in Vrindavan? Yes, staying in Vrindavan being absorbed in Krishna is very good. But Prabhupada had a higher absorption.
It was not just to live in Vrindavan, but to live for Vrindavan. Live for Vrindavan means that he lived for sharing the glories of Vrindavan. So, although he left Vrindavan to come to America, he actually did not leave Vrindavan.
He brought Vrindavan in his heart. So, we can take a pure devotee out of the dham, but we cannot take the dham out of the pure devotee. The holy abode stays in the heart and the holy lord stays in the heart.
So, Prabhupada did not live in Vrindavan, but wherever he went, he lived for Vrindavan. And he fulfilled the purpose of Vrindavan. What is Vrindavan? Yes, it is at one level of bliss in northern India, but more importantly, it is a place where there is devotion to the lord that is manifested.
And that devotion is what is central. The devotion is what is most important. And Prabhupada had that devotion.
And he had people become devoted to the lord wherever he went. In the Bhagavatam, in the Puranas, it is stated that Lord Vishnu is telling Narada Muni, नाहंवसामिवैकुन्थे योगिनामृदयेशिवा यत्रगायंतिमद्भक्ता तत्रतिष्ठामि नारदा So he says, नाहंवसामिवैकुन्थे, I don’t reside in Vaikuntha. योगिनामृदयेशिवा, I don’t reside in the hearts of the yogis.
Now, these statements can seem counterfactual. He said that, we practise bhakti, we go to the spiritual world and we find, hey, Vishnu is not there. What did I come here for? No, the lord is there in the spiritual world.
And then also, he says, I am not in the hearts of the yogis. The yogis, they meditate to discover the lord in the heart and to meditate on him in their hearts. ध्यानां वस्तित तद्गते नमनिसा पशंतियं योगिनामृदयेशिवा The yogis see him in the state of dhyana in their own hearts.
So the lord is there in the hearts of the yogis. He is there in the spiritual world. But the point is, he is not perceivable to us there.
He is not accessible to us there. So the statement here is not literal. It is rhetorical.
And that rhetorical point is made in the second half of the statement. यत्रगायन्तिमद्भक्ता तत्रतिष्ठामिनारदा यत्रगायन्तिमद्भक्ता Where I am glorified by my devotees, that is where I am present. What this means is that we can perceive the lord’s presence where the devotees come together and glorify him.
So that’s what Sri Prabhupada did. Wherever he went, he glorified Krishna. And he built temples, inspired others to build temples.
He inspired devotees to turn their homes into temples. And through it all, he made the lord manifest everywhere. And by the lord’s arrangement, eventually when he travelled all over the world, built 108 temples, the time came for him to depart.
The lord arranged for him to be back in Vrindavan. And in Vrindavan, in the month of Karthik, surrounded by his devotees, at an auspicious time, he departed from the world. So he lived in Vrindavan, he lived for Vrindavan, and he left in Vrindavan for Vrindavan.
So that is the life of devotion. And for us, when we are trying to practise bhakti, we understand that we may be at a very preliminary level in the practise of bhakti, or we may be at an advanced level. The important thing is we understand that the lord is our goal.
Pleasing him is our goal. The externals are important to the extent that they lead to an internal change. Sometimes, for the service of the lord, we may have to do certain services which may keep us which may take us away from devotees.
Take us away from the centre of bhakti. Sometimes, we are doing a particular service, nice katha and kirtana going on, but we are cooking. Or we are taking care of children.
We are in the background doing some other services. Then, that time, we may feel, oh, I am not able to connect with Krishna. Yes, that’s true, we want to connect, but if you are doing service, that is what is important.
Somebody else may be actually sitting in a katha, but if their thoughts are simply about their own aggrandisement, oh, if I do this much punya, I’ll get this much result, then they are not growing spiritually. So, that attitude of service is what elevates us. And that attitude of service was lacking in Maricha.
But with that attitude present, externally, however we may be situated, we will be elevated and ultimately, we will be united with our lord. So, I’ll summarise. I spoke today about Maricha and how the action, destination is not more important than the action.
So, Maricha was a demon with shape-shifting abilities, and Ram stunned him with a blunt arrow, became fearful, and to avoid Ram’s wrath, he had an apparent change of heart. Although his change of heart was, he was earlier thinking, I am so powerful, now he realised, oh, Ram is far more powerful than me. So, in that sense, there is some change, but he still saw Ram as an enemy, as a danger, not a shelter, not a leisure.
And whatever we think about, we attract situations for that thing to happen. So, the power of our intention is not absolute, but the intention is not omnipotent, but it is also not important. By the way we think, we attract that kind of situations.
So, Maricha, by constantly thinking of Ram in fear, Ram with his arrow coming to shoot him, that’s what happened to him eventually. But it happened not just by destiny, but also happened because of his own imprudent choice. So, Ravana initially hesitated to antagonise Ram, knowing his power, but when the desire was triggered within him by Shurpanakha’s explicit description of Sita’s beauty, then the barricade of his intelligence was knocked over.
Just like a snowball which is too strong will knock over the barricade, like that his intelligence was knocked over. And when our desires become too strong, they don’t just destroy our intelligence, they cause our intelligence to defect. We start using the intelligence to try to come up with schemes for fulfilling the desire.
So, he came up with a conspiracy and Maricha thought that, better that I be killed by Ram than Ravana. I’ll get a better destination. But his calculation was misdirected because he did not think of the purpose of elevation or liberation.
He saw God as a tool to elevation, not as a goal of elevation. And although he did fulfil his plan and die in Ram’s presence, at Ram’s hands still, he displeased Ram. On the other hand, Jatayu, Vibhishan, Jatayu died, Vibhishan lived.
But both of them, they left, they died and lived for Ram’s sake and they are considered model devotees. So, what we, so the most important thing in bhakti is not the externals, but the internals. The externals are meant to foster the internals.
So, the internal is, going to the spiritual world is not just a matter of relocation, it is a matter of reorientation of the heart. And when we practise bhakti, we, the important thing is that we live for the Lord. Srila Prabhupada, he lived in Vrindavan but he left Vrindavan.
But he carried Vrindavan with him. He lived in Vrindavan and later when he left Vrindavan, he lived for Vrindavan. And eventually the Lord arranged for him that he was brought back to Vrindavan.
The purpose of going to Vaikuntha, the purpose of perceiving the Lord in our heart is ultimately to glorify Him. And wherever is glorified, that’s where we can perceive Him most accessibly. So, by keeping this purpose, this attitude of service by which we connect with the Lord in the forefront of our consciousness, whether we are close to Him, whether we are away from Him, we will always be internally close to Him and eventually we will attain Him.
Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. Are there any questions or comments? What is the purpose of? So, if Ram’s purpose was to kill Ravana, then to fulfil that purpose, Maricha did what had to be done.
I understand your point. So, then there is some action which is done with conscious intention and there is some action which is used for a higher purpose. So, the Maricha was not a devotee or a bhakta who wanted to serve Ram and he was thinking that through all this I am serving Ram.
So, the Lord is so expert that He can use in His plan even those who are working against Him. Maricha was working against Him but the Lord can expertly use His actions also to fulfil His plan. But that doesn’t mean that they will get the credit.
Because whether they get the credit or not that depends on what their intention is. To give a simple example say, there are three people A, B, C. So, now A has robbed B in the past. Karma is complicated but I am just giving a simple example to illustrate this point.
Now A has robbed B and now as a karmic reaction A is to be robbed. And C comes to the place of A and robs A. So, now at one level A is getting the reaction for the karma that was done earlier. But C will also get a reaction.
Because C was not thinking that I am giving the reaction to A. C was simply thinking I want this property, I want this money so I will steal it. So, C may be used by the higher plan of nature to give A the reaction for whatever had been done in the past. But because C had his own intention because of which he did it.
So, he is held responsible for his actions. So, in that sense even if our actions work out for some better plan in the long run, what intention we do then also matters. So, that way if we consider we can absolutise everything.
Then at that level we can say that nobody does anything wrong in the epics, in the scriptures. Because ultimately everything is the Leela of the Lord. That is one way of looking at the things.
But in the scriptures itself we often see serious deliberation of what is right and what is wrong. So, we can say that when Kaikeyi conspired to have Ram exiled and because of that eventually Ravana was killed. So, what Kaikeyi did was good.
But then Dashrath tries to beg and persuade Kaikeyi. Mahishtha, the sage of the palace, he tries to persuade Kaikeyi. And there are discussions of what is Dharma, what is right, what is wrong.
And from those perspectives what Kaikeyi did was wrong. And later on when Lakshman comes and rebuffs her for what she has done. Then a bubble of illusion shatters.
What did I do? I caused the death of my husband, I caused my own stepson who was like my son to be exiled. What did I do? So, if we are to learn some lessons about how to act in our life, then we cannot have this absolutist view of scripture. That is also one way of looking at scripture.
But in scripture itself that view is not what is primalist. The characters deliberate what is the right action, what is the wrong action. And they arrive at certain decisions.
Sometimes their reasoning is right, sometimes their reasoning is wrong. And if the reasoning is wrong, later on scripture itself talks about it. They themselves admit what I thought.
It was wrong decision on my part. So, we see that the considerations of right and wrong are important in scripture. It’s not that everything is made absolutely right just by considering it to be a part of the Lord’s plan.
That is one way we can look at it. But for our own edification, for learning how we should act in our lives, we can see what is the right course of action and what is the wrong course of action. Does that answer your question? There are multiple levels of understanding scripture.
And we can see it in different ways. But the important thing is we don’t absolutise everything. Because that’s not what scripture itself does.
Yes? I get your point. Yesterday I talked about three factors which can be used to assess what is right and what is wrong. It’s what intent we do it, what exactly we are doing and what is the result of what we do.
Intent, content and consequence. So then are Kaikeyi and Maricha at the same level? Because ultimately what they did worked out for good. Not exactly.
Because there is a very clear description in the Ramayana of Kaikeyi being deeply remorseful about what she did. There is no report of Maricha being remorseful. We just feel that he dies and before he dies, till the moment of death, he is a faithful servant of Ravana.
Even when he is being shot by Ram, at that time also he continues to serve Ravana and he tries to carry on with Ravana’s scheme. He is not thinking he is a part of Ram’s scheme. Of course Kaikeyi is also not thinking like that at one level.
But Kaikeyi, her overall disposition was never demoniac. She was overcome by an ungodly desire for a particular period of time. And after she realised what she had done, then she had a change of heart.
She deeply repented what she had done. So, the consequence also when I explained it, that from the consequence point of view sometimes good may come out of the bad. But that does not necessarily make the bad good.
Bad things are bad. Although bad things can be for good. There is a difference between the two.
Sometimes from some bad things some good thing may emerge. But that does not make the bad thing good in itself. That is just the expertise of the Lord’s plan by which he can bring good in and out of the bad.
So, if we consider Duryodhana. It was Duryodhana who insulted Vidura. And because of this Vidura left the kingdom and he went to the forest.
And then he got further knowledge from Maitreya. And then eventually he came and he delivered Dhritarashtra by giving him instruction, inducing detachment within him. So, now here Duryodhana’s action in insulting Vidura grievously that had a good result.
The result was that Vidura got more spiritual knowledge from Maitreya. And Vidura eventually came back and delivered Dhritarashtra. Vidura also, we could say it was even good for Vidura at one level.
Because Vidura did not have to fight for the Kauravas, against the Pandavas. If he had stayed there, he might have had to fight on the Kauravas’ side. So, in that sense, the consequence was good.
But does that make Duryodhana insulting Vidura good? Was it the right thing for him to do? No. In a cultured society, one does not speak disrespectfully to one’s elders. Not to speak of publicly insulting them.
So, he did that. So, when I said yesterday that Kaikeyi is not considered culpable I need to qualify what I mean by that. What I meant was that the characters in the scriptures are all special souls.
Just because they are in the Lord’s pastimes, there is something special over there. So, we should judge and minimise those characters. We need to have a respectful attitude towards them.
Especially those who are devotionally inclined, but sometimes they may act in a non-devotional way. So, Indra, for example, is a great devata. Sometimes he may act, like in Gopal Dhan Nila he acts against Krishna.
Sometimes he acts foolishly. But that does not make him a fool. He is a great person, but sometimes he is overcome by certain passions, certain desires, certain infatuations.
So, even when we objectively analyse a particular decision to be wrong, a particular action to be wrong I said that we should not become judgemental and disrespectful to the scriptural characters. Especially those characters who are normally seen positive. Even a good person can sometimes be temporarily overcome by a terrible desire.
So, Kaikeyi, her overall disposition was never demonic. Maricha, her overall disposition was demonic. His overall disposition.
So, in that sense, the two characters are not comparable. So, Kaikeyi’s sending Ram on exile was bad. Maricha’s conspiring to have Sita abducted was bad.
Now, just because good comes from the bad, that does not necessarily make the bad good. The bad is still bad. But we see there is a higher plan by which some good came out of it.
We should never use the fact that some good came out of a bad to presume that in the future also I will keep doing bad things and good will come out. That’s never the attitude of anyone in scripture. Yes, there is a mistake, but thankfully something good came out of it.
But we will be careful in the future. Does that address your question? So, one last simple question. So, the consequences, what is the duration to measure the consequences? Okay, yeah.
So, what is the duration to measure the consequence? Yes, that depends on also not just the particular action, but also the past karmic balance of a person. Sometimes, some people may start smoking and immediately they get some lung problems, they get some chest problems. Some people may smoke throughout their life and they seem to be hell and healthy.
Nothing has happened to them. So, why is that? Or sometimes you see that some people, they eat a little bit more and their weight shoots up. Some people they treat their mouth like a conveyor belt.
Lots of things go inside, but somehow their digestive fire is strong and nothing happens to them. They don’t gain weight too much. So, their health stays good.
Nothing happens to them. So, this is basically a result of karma. So, what that means is that the actions produce results.
But when those results will become manifest, that can change depending on the overall karmic balance that we make. So, if a person is by past good karma meant to have a powerful healthy life, influential life in this world, then whatever that person does, that person may get those results. But the actions that they are doing now, the results are going to come for that.
Somebody might do one criminal activity and immediately they are caught and they are put in jail and they suffer for this criminal activity. Somebody might be a terrorist who kills 100 people. Somebody might be a tyrant who kills millions of people.
And still they go on throughout their life. But eventually all the bad karma that they have done, they will get the reaction. But sometimes our past karma may delay the reaction to our present karma.
So, when that happens then it may appear as if the reaction is not coming. So, sometimes we think of karma as very straightforward. Action produces reaction.
That in principle is true, but in practise it’s much more complicated. The action sets off a chain of events that will eventually produce a reaction. So, our actions they are not simple linear causes of the reaction.
There are many other factors involved. And that duration is determined by the past karma that a person has done. So, Ravana was demoniac, but by his karma, he had to have he was supposed to enjoy power for some time and he enjoyed that.
The actions, the reactions did come to him eventually. So, that’s why we can’t simply look at the consequence and say because no consequences come, so whatever I did was fine. We have to also look at the intention of a person.
We have to look at what the content of the person has been doing. Sometimes some people may do terrible activities and they do it with malevolent intention. And they may seem to get away for some time.
So, that’s simply because they have some karma which delays the karmic reaction from coming. So, in that sense, the absence of the presence of a positive or negative consequence, that alone cannot be used to decide whether a person is on the right track or the wrong track. The consequence is one parameter to be considered.
But that is not the only parameter. Does that address your question? Gahana karmano gati. Karma is quite difficult to understand.
Any other questions or comments? Yeah, I understand. Sometimes religious people who have lived a religious life throughout their life, they fall terribly sick. Why does that happen? Yeah, I understand.
Yeah, I understand what you are saying. There are three levels of understanding this. First is that we don’t practise religion simply as an insurance from suffering.
That is what many people may have an idea. But the nature of this world is that everybody has to suffer. Everybody will grow old.
Everybody will get deceased. Everybody will ultimately die. Whether it is religious or non-religious, it doesn’t matter.
Imagine there are two people who are sick. Then hospital, then pain. So now one of them is taking the treatment.
One of them has been diagnosed and the treatment has been prescribed. For the other, there is no diagnosis and no treatment also. There is just speculation going on.
At one level, both of them are in pain. But their future is very different. For the person who has been diagnosed and treated, the person is on the path to recovery.
The other person is going to suffer more and more. Similarly, when somebody is trying to be devoted to God, that means that they are like a patient who is still in the hospital. But they have been diagnosed properly and they are taking the treatment.
But as long as the sickness is there, the pain will be there. While the soul is in this world, pain comes in some form or the other. For some people, we see pain coming from physical disease.
For some people, pain comes as emotional distress. For some people, pain comes as financial anxieties. For some people, pain comes as being in an environment which is filled with danger.
Whatever. This is inevitable. So our purpose in practising in devotion is not protection at the horizontal level.
Life is a journey towards death and destruction. The protection which we seek is elevation to a higher consciousness. So expecting that our religion will protect us from suffering.
Expectation indicates an incomplete understanding of religion. Yes, there will be protection, but there is a nature of the world which will not change. Sometimes some people may suffer.
Now, of course, this raises the question that not everyone gets that kind of painful diseases. So what we understand here is that we all have different kinds of karmic pasts. And sometimes the reactions to certain actions are distributed over a wide period of time.
And for some people, during some phases, many reactions come at a particular time. Sometimes people say, this is a bad period going on in my life. Bad period means, it’s not just one thing, one, two, three, four, so many things start going wrong.
So sometimes our karmic reactions, they come in a concentrated dose. Sometimes they come distributed. So, especially for those who are very devoted to the Lord, at that time, it is quite possible that this life is their final life.
That means they are going to be liberated from material existence. And for that liberation to be effected, sometimes the reactions which would have been distributed over many lifetimes, they may get concentrated in one dose towards the end of this lifetime. And by that, those reactions get exhausted.
And then they can get liberated. So it’s extremely painful when it happens. But, rather than seeing this as God not protecting, we see that from a longer perspective, this whole entanglement in this world is being ended.
At a third level, you see that, especially if somebody is deeply devoted, then when such distresses come, what happens to them? They take deeper shelter of the Lord. When they take deeper shelter of the Lord, then they themselves realise there is a physical level, there is a material level, there is a spiritual level. So the material level, when distress comes, we normally fight to counter the distress at the material level.
And as long as we are living, we do, that’s a part of our duty. Diseases come, we take medicine. Cold comes, we wear warm clothes.
But at a particular point of time, this fighting at the material level becomes unproductive. The forces, like in old age, this illness is approaching. So at that point, at that time, the point is to raise our consciousness to the spiritual level.
When we raise our consciousness to the spiritual level, the body may be breaking down. But the soul is absorbing Krishna. And because of that absorption in Krishna, one does not undergo as much pain as one would have if one had been absorbed in the body.
So actually at that time, I know many devotees who have had difficulties in their last days, severe difficulties. But their consciousness was so absorbed in Krishna. Actually, what we experience depends on where our consciousness is.
We may be in a comfortable situation, air-conditioned house, but say if somebody is watching a horror movie, their consciousness in the horror movie, they are suffering. They are suffering terribly, scared. So similarly, somebody loves cricket.
And they are in a crowded cricket stadium where everybody is sweating, it’s hot, it’s congested. But their consciousness is on the cricket field. And they are enjoying.
Physically, they are in a very uncomfortable situation. But because their consciousness is over there, somewhere they enjoy, actually they are at that level enjoying. So basically the point which I am making is, we experience reality not just based on our bodily condition but on the location of our consciousness.
So for those who are devoted to the Lord, they see bodily distress as an impetus for accelerating the raising of their consciousness on the spiritual level. They take shelter of the Lord. So normally when people are in distress, they may cry out.
For those who are devoted, they call out Krishna, Ram, they call out to the Lord. The Lord will facilitate them the remembrance of the Lord. And by that, elevation of their consciousness on the spiritual level, they gain relief.
So many times, we expect release from problems when we pray to God. But what God sometimes offers is not release from problems but relief amidst problems. The problem remains, but our consciousness gets elevated to a higher level.
If I am in a two-story building, at the ground level, there is no air conditioning. I am extremely hot. And then I am sweating, I am burning, scorching.
And at the upper level where actually there is air conditioning, it’s cool, it’s comfortable. We may not normally want to go to that level. It’s so hot over there, let me go there.
And once we get to that upper level, deep relief is there. But suppose somebody goes to the upper level, opens the door of the room where there is air conditioning, but then keeps the door open and goes down again. They expect that, oh, that air conditioning should come to the ground level.
That may take a long time to come. So what we need to do is, we sometimes want to use the spiritual to improve things at the material level. Things at the material level, by the grace of God, will improve, but they may take their own time.
So what we need to do is, raise our consciousness to the spiritual level. So such times of great distress, when even the devoted suffer, they take this as an opportunity to absorb themselves in devotion. And their loved ones can also assist them in their absorption.
And thus they can, even when they have their body suffering, they can transcend that suffering by raising their consciousness to the spiritual level. In the Bhagavatam, the third cantor said that, the various distresses of material existence come upon people. But for those who are devoted to the Lord, their consciousness is absorbed in the Lord.
And therefore, they do not experience the distress. Because their consciousness is elevated upwards. So we see such distressing situations as impetuses for raising the consciousness upwards.
And thereby, they can transcend their suffering. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for coming today afternoon.