Ramayana series 3 – Shurapanakha’s slyness – Beware of those who manipulate us using our weakness

[Talk at Phoenix, USA]

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna So we’ll discuss about, continue our discussion on the Ramayana and we’ll discuss today about another incident from the Ramayana which illustrates how we human beings, when we have our weaknesses how those weaknesses can be the causes of our downfall especially if somebody else decides to exploit them Our relationships are, we are this world and we have different relationship with different people So we are here to see each other through, not to see through each other To see through each other means, you look at, ok you act like this but you are like this Try to dig deep and find faults in each other Yes, inevitably we will see faults in each other But we all have faults and we will see those faults But our purpose is not just to see through each other Our purpose is to see each other through That means, yes, you have this weakness, I have this strength So let us complement each other Not that you have this weakness and I have this strength, therefore I am better than you Therefore I will demean you Relationships can work well when others protect us from our weaknesses We all have certain weaknesses and nobody is perfect Nobody has all strengths in them So others need to protect us from our weaknesses If they don’t do that, then we become more vulnerable Worst is that if others exploit our weaknesses Then we become even more vulnerable The specific incident I will talk about is of Shurpanakha exploiting Ravana Normally Ravana who is a big powerful demon And Shurpanakha who is relatively speaking, she is nowhere near Ravana in power But she knows Ravana’s weakness When we live with people, when we observe people We all can come to know which buttons to press To get people to do what we want them to do Sometimes when we want somebody to do something Then we will tell you, this person said this about you Or he said like this, I will show him Now that person may have said one thing, may have said other things also But out of those ten things, we will tell only one thing Which will incite this person to action So we do come to know which buttons to press In order to control people, to manipulate people But the human nature, the purpose of our humanity Is to raise ourselves to spirituality and to raise others to spirituality That means when we interact with the other What should happen is that we help each other bring out our higher side Not our lower side All of us have a higher side and a lower side And sometimes during the inevitable course of our interactions Our lower side comes out, we become angry, we become irritable Various lower desires come up within us But then the relationship itself should be based on the foundation that Sometimes we may behave in a way which brings out the other person’s lower side Sometimes they may behave in such a way that brings out our lower side But overall we try to protect each other from their lower side And we try to help each other bring out our higher side So Shurpanakha is the demoness who is the sister of Ravana And she, when she is living in Janasthan, near Janasthan In the forest of Dandakaranya So Dandakavana Janasthavan Rama So there Lord Rama came and stayed in Dandakavan And then there as she was just wandering around She is not just a carnivore, she is what we would call a cannibal One who eats human beings So her nose smelled some delicious food She went around, hey where is this? That is a forest, because there were these cannibalistic demons there No humans came over there So when she smelled humans she immediately went there And as she came in the clearing where Rama, Lakshmana and Sita had their hermitage She saw that and she beheld Rama’s majestic royal form And suddenly her desire changed Rama changed for her from a lunch box to a lover She gave up her desire to eat this human being and she wanted him as her partner And she thought that, she changed her form, made herself very attractive And she came to a proposition to him And then Rama had no intention in satisfying her In accepting her proposition But he didn’t want to say no to her He told her that, see I am already married to Sita If you unite with me, then because she is the senior queen, you will have to become her servant Why do you want to do that? You go to Lakshmana Now, if she had really been attracted to Rama She would not just have left Rama and gone to Lakshmana But immediately she went to Lakshmana So, it was not so much, there is what we could say There is the attraction, sometimes it is generic where just one has sensual desires And we need someone to fulfil the sensual desire And there is sometimes a deeper attraction It is not just physical, but there is also emotional attraction So her attraction was just simply physical And she immediately went to Lakshmana And Lakshmana told her I am the servant of both Rama and Sita If you marry me, then you will have to become the servant of all three of us So, she started thinking And she felt that, actually why are both of them not accepting me? It is because of Sita And therefore, she suddenly pounced on Sita and tried to strangle her And Sita screamed and Rama came in between and pushed her off And then told Lakshmana, punish her So then, Lakshmana did not want to kill her She was a woman He felt that she had become so intoxicated Because she thought she was so beautiful And she could go to any man And she would propose to him and the man would fall for her So, he used his sword to cut off her nose Now, this for her was not just a disfigurement But it was also an insult She thought she is such a powerful demoness And this human being not only rejected my proposal But he also disfigured me And she went and ran back and told Kara and Dushya about it And they came with their full army to attack 14,000 demons And Rama single-handedly defeated them Now, after that, there was only one demon, Akampana His name was Akampana, but he was doing all Kampana He was trembling as he ran away seeing the fearsome power of Rama He just ran, ran all the way from Janasthan to Lanka And told Ravana what had happened Now, he was also very fearful to tell Ravana Because sometimes kings, they would routinely shoot the deliverers of bad news You brought bad news, I will kill you But somehow he managed to pacify Ravana by flattering him a little bit And then told him the bad news Ravana was furious, but not at Akampana Who did this? He told about Rama I will go and kill him right now So, Akampana said don’t do this Because his power is very great It will not be so easy to overcome him And then Akampana suggested to him That along with him is his wife Sita If you can abduct her, then you can get back at Rama So, Ravana still thought how to do it And he thought of, he went to Maricha Instead of confronting Rama directly, let’s just abduct her So, in the power games between people Sometimes women are used as tools for one man to get back at another But then, Maricha told no, don’t do this So, Maricha cautioned him That he is too powerful, don’t antagonise Rama He came back So, here Ravana was trying to use Sita as a tool in his power game But Shurpanakha was trying to use him as a tool in her power game So, all this happens in, you can say, domestic politics So, then she came along and when she initially She just came and she kept crying to Ravana And she covered her face Oh Ravana, please help me, help me What has happened? And she pointed that her nose had been cut He was furious, he said, who did this to you? She told, it is Rama and Lakshman, they did this Now Ravana was furious, but immediately his anger cooled down And now, Ravana, and Shurpanakha saw that Ravana is not likely to do anything He said, what kind of brother are you? What kind of king are you? Your own citizen, your own sister has been dishonoured And you are sitting here just enjoying watching the dancing girls You have no control over your senses You are an irresponsible king Ravana was furious when he heard this For the king to be publicly insulted like this Even people who have uncontrolled senses Don’t like to be told that they have uncontrolled senses Even they consider it an insult Because their whole idea is, I am the controller So even if they are controlled by the senses, they don’t like to be told Now Ravana had to save face So Ravana told her, I don’t know Why are you living with Rama and Lakshman? What business did you have to go and interfere with them? They were living in their territory You first went to them, they didn’t attack you first So, now when Shurpanakha heard this She felt her whole plan for taking revenge getting shattered And she decided to give a completely different spin to the story Oh brother, you misunderstand me You know why I went there? I went there only for you When I saw how beautiful Sita was I felt that she could be the crown of your palace She had no thought of getting Sita for Ravana at all But she gave a whole story of how beautiful Sita is And as she started describing this more and more Slowly, Ravana’s eyes became broad His heart became filled with desire And as Shurpanakha saw her plan working And describing Sita’s beauty in more and more sensuous terms And when this happened, Ravana just lost his intelligence And then he set off, he said, yes, I will get Sita Later, retellings of the Ramayana say that Actually, Shurpanakha had her own axe to grind So, Shurpanakha had been married to another powerful demon Named Dushtabuddhi So, this particular demon, he was a very faithful follower of Ravana And he had assisted Ravana in many of his demoniac conquests Against the gods, but at one particular point, he started becoming very powerful And Ravana felt that he will be a threat to him So, he arranged for a plot by which Dushtabuddhi was killed He didn’t directly kill him, but he sent him off on a battle In which he had very few supporting forces And he told the supporting forces to go later So, it’s not that he directly killed him But he basically arranged for his death And when Shurpanakha, she was initially grief struck When she heard about Dushtabuddhi’s death But eventually when she came to know that Ravana had been the cause of this She became furious And she was waiting for an opportunity to get back at Ravana And when she saw Rama’s strength She said, this is the person who will be able to kill Ravana And therefore, it is not just because of the insult that she felt when she had been disfigured But also because she wanted to get back at Ravana That she incited Ravana Incited Ravana by describing Sita’s beauty And thereafter Ravana lost his intelligence So, the nature of the mind is that Krishna describes it as chanchalam himanah krishna pramathi dalavadhudam tasyaham nigraham manye vayoriva sudhushkaram In 6.34 he says that chanchala These four characteristics that he describes in this verse are actually progressive Chanchala means restless It doesn’t stay at one place If a mother tells a child, sit in this place And after five minutes the mother comes, the child says, where has it gone? The child won’t sit there, the child is by nature restless So the mind doesn’t stay at one place, chanchala But if it is just restless, it will be naughty But the problem is, it is not just restless But pramathi, it is mad It is mad But who is in a mental asylum In my last trip in America, I had gone to a mental health clinic to give a spiritual talk To the caregivers over there And one of the caregivers told me that he was just talking with one person who had been admitted over there And he had not been properly informed that he was going to be admitted He thought that he was just coming there for a checkup And when he came to know that he was going to be admitted He got so angry that within five minutes In a fit of anger, he destroyed $50,000 worth of medical property Wild he became And then they had to get 11 security staff to put him down And hold him down over there Finally they gave him some sleeping injection and he fell asleep So he says that we have tremendous stress over here So normally people behave, many people, we all behave sometimes predictably, sometimes unpredictably But when somebody is mad, the range of their unpredictability itself is excessive So pramathi, the mind is restless But its restlessness is not harmless like a child It is like a madman’s restlessness And then ballavat Imagine if this madman who has been admitted to a hospital Is also a bodybuilder Then controlling such a person would be much much more difficult So a mother may control a small child Who is 3, 4, 5 years old But if an 18 year old hefty youth becomes angry How much can the mother do? How much can the father do? So ballavat Ballavat means extremely strong And not only that, drudham Drudham means obstinate That once it gets a particular idea, it just doesn’t let it go Drudha is normally used in a positive sense For example Krishna uses the word that My devotees they glorify me constantly And they practise bhakti with great determination So The drudha means strong determination Determination basically And obstinacy and determination are both actually similar It is the same force but when it is directed intelligently Or when it is directed unintelligently So for example Duryodhana is holding on to the kingdom Dhritarashtra is holding on to the kingdom That is obstinacy So here when Krishna is using the word drudha He is referring to that not in the sense of positive determination But in terms of obstinacy So once the mind gets hold of an idea It just doesn’t let go It’s extremely obstinate Catches hold and holds on So that’s why the mind is extremely dangerous So this is what happened to Duryodhana His mind got caught with the idea of possessing Sita And once that idea caught him He just didn’t let go So many things happened after that Eventually when Hanuman came A single vanara came and destroyed half of his kingdom His own father came and told him Vishwa told him that Ram is God, don’t antagonise him Vibhishan told him He couldn’t listen to anyone That is the nature of the mind Once it catches an idea It just holds on to it So Shurpanakha knew about this weakness of Ravana And she exploited it And thus Ravana, he was an evil person But even his evil nature He initially had to some extent curtailed with his intelligence Where, no, I’ll antagonise the gods but not Ram He is too powerful But then once the desire caught him Then even his intelligence was overpowered by that desire So the itihasas are Ramayana, Mahabharata Itihasas are a genre of literature Which are based on history But they are not merely historical reporting They are talking about timeless themes Which apply to people across history and across geography So the Ramayana is Madhacharya and his Vedanta Sutra commentary Explains in Brahma Sutra Vahasya that The itihasas can be understood at three levels The literal, the ethical and the metaphorical So the literal means that this is how things have happened There is a report over here Just by hearing about it we’ll get purified Then ethical means from these incidents we learn lessons This is how this character behaved and things went wrong This is not how we should behave or this is how we should behave So literal, ethical And metaphorical means that there can be some symbolic significances Now the metaphorical is not at the expense of the literal It is in expansion of the literal The literal is true But along with that there is some additional meaning also that can be drawn So Surpanakha refers, Surpanakha in that analysis Can be said to refer to the forces that incite desire within us This I’ll talk first at a social level Then I’ll talk at an individual or interpersonal level In the world today we see advertisements And if we consider advertisements is so common in today’s world Many companies actually their promotion budget is more than their production budget So I read an ad about advertisements That was the ad that growth is a function of visibility That was their idea That growth is a function of visibility Naturally visibility is a function of growth The bigger you grow the more visible you become But in today’s world promotion The more visible you become people come to know that you are there Then people buy your product and you grow So 200-300 years ago there were no advertisements at all The only advertisement was if some vendor was going on the roads As much as his voice could go That was the range of the advertisement I got some fruits, we want some fruits, we want some fruits They would call out But with industrialisation The quantity of production far exceeded the need in the immediate facility So then what happened was need had to be created And that required promotion That’s how advertisement was born And till the start of the 20th century Advertisements were based on the virtues of the products This product is so good If you have this, this, this, this You can do this, this, this And based on what the product was about Its virtues people started selling Sigmund Freud is considered the father of psychotherapy One of the most influential thinkers in modern history Of course whether his influence was good or bad That’s a different question In many ways it was quite harmful So one of his ideas that was picked up by the advertising world Was that people are more triggered by their emotions than by their intelligence So we have an emotional faculty and we have a rational faculty So normally we educate people and we expect people to behave rationally But the rational faculty, he gave the example If we have a huge turbulent ocean Huge ocean with waves that can be turbulent And in that we have a small canoe A structure for navigating which does not even have sidebars Just a log of wood brought together So he said that our rational faculty is like that canoe And our emotional side is like the ocean So if the storm, if the ocean is calm We will use the canoe to move But if the ocean becomes stormy We will just be overpowered The canoe will overturn Our rational faculty will be cast aside And we will act irrationally And this was his explanation for why humanity has a destructive tendency That human beings fight war If you look at the first world war The incident that started it off Was actually just one minor incident But that led to second, third, fourth And the biggest confrontation the world has seen till then So he looked at history and he said Why do people act irrationally like this? So his conclusion was that people’s emotions get triggered And when the emotional faculty gets activated Then rational faculty gets lost Now he explained this or analysed this in terms of As a warning that we should not do this That we have to be very careful But the advertising industry took this If you want to sell products When we tell how good the product is Then we are trying to address people’s rational faculty But instead of telling how good the product is If we tell them how good the product will make you feel Then we are activating their emotional faculty And when that is activated Then we will be able to control people much more And this has actually become the operating principle of most advertising today So around 1929 The smoking industry found that Its sales had reached a plateau Because all the young men Who had the financial power to smoke were already smoking And they thought how do we expand our market? So one of them came with an idea 50% of humanity is not smoking So during the American Independence Day Parade In 1929 They got some of the most popular female icons As they were walking along in this parade At the most visible points Where there were cameras At that time there were no TVs Where the cameras were there looking They got all of them to flip out Some thin special cigarettes made specially for women And start smoking them Everyone is clicking cameras What are these? What are you doing? We are lighting the torches of freedom Now that was the time when the suffragette movement was gaining momentum And the idea that women had been controlled and exploited for so many centuries That idea of freedom is so appealing That as soon as cigarette smoking was associated with the idea of freedom Whatever social taboo, whatever cultural reservation It was all swept away I also want to light the torch of freedom How smoking cigarettes is related with freedom Once the emotion is swept up Nobody asks that rational question And within just a few years Millions of women started smoking It was only several years later The harmful effects of smoking started becoming public The harmful effects of women especially smoking became even more And especially the harmful effects of women who are pregnant Smoking, all that came up later But by that time the juggernaut had started off So when our lower desires are known Our lower side is known Somebody knowingly exploits that Then that makes people very vulnerable The same principle is seen in the media also There are, with respect to the depiction of sensuality There are different degrees There is romantic, there is erotic and there is pornographic Romantic means male-female attraction It’s just a universal fact of human existence And in the course of that To describe or to depict say female beauty That’s been done throughout history So there is an overall story in which certain descriptions are given So like that even the beauty of Sita is described in the Ramayana The beauty of Draupadi is described in the Mahabharata So that is just a part of the storyline The purpose is not to incite desire The purpose is to describe how beautiful a particular character was So that is romantic Then there is erotic means that there is some kind of storyline But the sensual element is much much more And there is a distinctive, that is the highlight of it But whereas pornographic means there is no storyline There is only the inciting of lust That’s all that there is And now here what happens Everybody has their weaknesses Lust is something which can trigger anyone But when a whole culture is used to trigger people’s lower desires Then people just become helplessly trapped The pornography industry actually Its revenue is more than the revenue of All the franchises of basketball and football Combined together in all of America That’s just in America So it’s huge money And it’s all meant to trigger people’s lower desires So this you could say is the Shurpankha industry So triggering people’s lowest desires And when this happens Just as Ravana became a puppet He thought I am in control But he was actually controlled And he became a puppet Similarly people become puppet People become addicted So the culture is actually meant to inspire values Not instigate cravings The culture that is around us What it should do? It should inspire us to live according to higher values But not to instigate our lower cravings So of course everywhere in the world There is goodness, there is passion and there is ignorance So even in the western world There are people who are in goodness There are people who are in passion There are people who are in ignorance But the problem is What is highlighted? What is prominent? So goodness is there But that is not what is prominent in the culture That is not what is highlighted So it’s passion and it’s ignorance that is highlighted Normal male-female attraction is in the mode of passion That’s passion But in the mode of ignorance So when there are just attraction to images And the captation by those images That is in the mode of ignorance Why in the mode of ignorance? Because in the mode of There are three modes And they all have different functions In the mode of goodness We control our inner world And then we act in the outer world In the mode of passion We act in the outer world Before we control the inner world So for example I think and then I speak That is mode of goodness I speak and then I think Hey what did I speak? I didn’t mean it That is in the mode of passion But mode of ignorance means I have control neither over my outer world Nor over my inner world I don’t know what I am speaking I don’t even know what I am thinking The mind is going everywhere You are wild in imagining things So this is the mode of ignorance In the mode of ignorance So in the mode of passion One wants to control the outer world So controlling the outer world means One may want With respect to sensuality One may want to develop a romantic relationship One may want to Quote a person, date with a person And develop a relationship But that requires a mode of effort One has to develop a relationship One has to present one’s best self Every relationship we pursue positively It impels us To become better than what we are But When in the mode of ignorance There is no effort To try to do anything external Just in the imaginary world One tries to enjoy So it’s like Eating, sleeping, mating, defending Are basic bodily functions If human beings live only for them Then that is considered to be Equivalent to animal living But With the media What happens is People don’t even want to work To do eating, sleeping, mating, defending They watch somebody else mating And imagine if I was there it would be so nice So it is Not even animal life It is second hand animal life So in such a situation People just become paralysed People just become They emotionally don’t grow They physically become Overwhelmed So when the culture at large triggers this Then People can very easily Become overwhelmed So we In Kaliyuga In all the ages throughout history There has been good, there has been bad The danger of Kaliyuga Is especially because The bad Is glamorised Sin is considered fashionable There is at a subtle level The change of words Leads to a change of thinking So for example When if a movie has A lot of explicit scenes Then That is told in the Description of the movie She is a bold actress A lot of bold scenes Now everybody Wants to be bold So that means Somebody who is doing explicit scenes Is bold and somebody who is not doing that Is cowardly So what is happening is Thinking is perverted By such words So slowly but surely At a larger At a social level When people’s lower cravings are brought out And not only they are brought out There is stimuli which triggers them But there is also the glamorisation of that Then the lower side of people Gets wildly triggered And the whole society The social fabric Starts crumbling Social fabric Starts crumbling Now this is at a social level At a social level There is not much we can do The society is the way it is Of course the society is made of individuals And if individuals decide To change Society will also change But that’s a grassroots level approach Which you have to be gradual But at our individual level Also We Need to be aware Of the people around us Some people They know our weak points And they just press those weak points To agitate us To manipulate us Those who anger us Conquer us When somebody makes us angry There can be situations That strong action is called for But that strong action Should be our decision Not a reaction to somebody’s So I think calmly This calls for strong action I’ll do it But if somebody just speaks and acts in a way Provokes my anger Gives me a distorted picture of reality By which I get provoked towards someone And actually those who anger us Conquer us So if in our social circle In our situation we find That there are certain things that trigger us That trigger us with desire With anger Then it is our responsibility To protect ourselves from it So For Ravana’s actions Shurpanakha is not responsible Shurpanakha is the trigger But it’s Ravana Who chose to do that And similarly When we all get tempted There may be somebody who tempts us Somebody who triggers us And yes that person At one level is responsible They have their own agenda And they are doing it for that particular purpose So for their doing that They will also get the karmic reactions But they are simply triggering It is we who are doing Say somebody gives a person a gun And then that person goes And kills someone The supplier of the gun And if that gun was illegally supplied The supplier is culpable But the person who killed is actually far more culpable So If at an individual level There are people who bring out Our lower side in our interactions Then we need to keep a safe distance And more importantly Life is Not based so much on avoiding the negative It is based more on Cultivating the positive So More than avoiding those who bring out The lower side within us We have to focus on associating with those Who bring out our higher side Who inspire us To become better So Every relationship If it is pursued in a responsible way It forces us to become better Because when I am alone I just do what I want to do Sometimes I may do something which is good Sometimes I do something which is not good But if I have a relationship with someone Then I have to think about the other person And then I have to decide So sometimes the other person may force me To do something wrong also Sometimes the other person may force me to do something right Although I don’t feel like doing it So basically When we have a relationship What happens is Without relationships we are simply puppets of our mind If our mind is controlled We will be well behaved If our mind is uncontrolled Our mind will make us a puppet and go here and there But then when we have some other relationship Then we have to consider the other person also So we can’t act simply according to the moods of our mind So for example Parents when husband and wife They together have a child Then they just can’t think of themselves They have to think of the child So in a sense every relationship If it is pursued responsibly It forces us To come out of the control of our mind I don’t feel like doing this But it’s important I have to do this That sense of responsibility, that sense of commitment Gives us a reason to Fight off the control of the mind So those who Every responsible relationship Actually Forces us to fight off the mind And that helps us to grow And especially among all our relationships Our relationship with Krishna And our relationship with those who represent Krishna Those who bring Krishna into our life That activates Our higher self So we cannot As I said doing the negative Or avoiding the negative Is very difficult Why is it difficult? Because the mental world Is fundamentally different From the physical world In the physical world I don’t want to touch this So I can Avoid my hand going there And I will not touch it But in the mental world I will not think about this Psychologists call this The pink monkey experiment They tell researchers For the next one minute Don’t think of a pink monkey Now in their whole life They don’t think of a pink monkey So we can’t Not think of something I said I will not think of this coconut water Well In thinking of not thinking of That coconut water I am thinking about it So the mental In the physical world We can not touch something We can avoid touching something But in the mental world we can’t avoid thinking of something Yes we can Avoid thinking of it But not just by deciding I won’t think of it We can avoid it by thinking of something positive So similarly We need to We can not Just avoid Interactions We can try that But if there are people who bring out our lower side We can try to create a distance But more important is associating With people who bring out our higher side Who inspire us to become better Who guide us Who Who are the agents Who help us become better So Ravana had a person like that That was Vibhishan But he neglected him He rejected him Sometimes Just unavoidably In our life there may be people Who may trigger us in different ways And we just can’t avoid that But when that happens what we can do is We can focus more on the people Who are Going to activate the higher side And they will act as a counter balancing Of us That’s why association Of devotees is extremely important This principle Of desires being activated By others Is universal It is in a sense An amoral principle Amoral means It is neither moral nor immoral Immoral desires can be cultivated Within us And moral desires can also be cultivated It is a value neutral principle Whatever we associate with Whoever we associate with Not just associated in terms of Casual chitchatting But who trigger emotional response Within us Association activates A response within us Emotional and intellectual That is what is important For us So I conclude with one point That Association How does it, why is it so important Because Association Activates our desires Our desires Are not just linear They are triangular What do I mean by Triangular desires Normally we think of Ok Oh There is a Halwa over there I want to eat it So we see the object And we desire to eat it So this is a linear desire But suppose We go to a particular programme And some item Which has been made which we have never heard of Maybe some Mexican dish Or something like that And it looks also very strange We were thinking should I eat it Or should I not eat it But then we see someone whom we know And they go and eat Ah so delicious Just seeing them what happens I also want to eat it So seeing that object Did not trigger the desire But seeing someone enjoying that object Triggered that desire So in this case the desire is not linear It is triangular It is when we see somebody else enjoying that object That triggers the desire And this triangularity of desires Is the Driving principle Of celebrity endorsements In advertising Isn’t it That Somebody may show you a company Will release a new smart phone Well there are so many smart phones being released But if they have some Very well known Bollywood star or Hollywood star Or a sports star Or somebody who is well known I use this one Endorses that She uses it, I want to take it So our desires Are triangular They are not just linear But they are triangular also And This triangularity of desires Is especially important In spiritual life Much more than material life Because in material life Many of the sense objects Also naturally look attractive But in spiritual life The objects towards which we want to become Devoted, they may not look Naturally that attractive Yes the deities look attractive But you may just think, if you go to a temple And see that it is just nice Decorative statues But if we meet a devotee who is Worshipping the deities for years And we talk with them And we understand how devoted they are There must be something special over here Then our desire to serve the deities Increases We may Get a Bhagavad Gita Many people get Bhagavad Gita as it is And they keep it as it is But If they come in the association of some devotee Who delights in the Bhagavad Gita Who explains the Bhagavad Gita There is so much in this I never knew this This devotee has so much wisdom, so much taste for the Gita I also want that taste Then that association triggers So With respect to spiritual Objects Just seeing those objects may or may not Activate our desire But associating with those Who Who have that taste Who have that desire That will activate our desire So we do need to avoid the association Of those who trigger our lower side But more important is to cultivate And cherish the association Of those who bring out our higher side And when we do that That’s how We grow That’s how we improve That’s how our best side emerges So every relationship Inspires us to become better Especially if it is Pursued in a responsible way But devotional relationships They have one Major additional factor By which they help us to become better Because There we get Not in the devotional relationships We get just not the inspiration To become better But we also get the empowerment To become better I may want to become better but I don’t want to be so short tempered So if I meet someone who is very cool and calm I would like to be cool and calm But what do I do when the anger comes It just comes Sometimes our desires may be so strong That will power alone may not be enough But when we connect with Krishna In devotional relationships They are centred on connection with Krishna And when we connect with Krishna Krishna is all pure Pavithranam Pavithram Yo Mangalanam So he is Purest among all pure He is most auspicious among all auspicious So when we connect with him We become purified So the relationship With Krishna Doesn’t just create within us the inspiration To become purified, become better It also gives us the empowerment To become better And that’s how Our higher side can come out Most efficaciously If we cultivate devotional relationships Centred on Krishna And that’s how In our life journey Although at a cultural level, at a social level There may be cravings Being instigated within us But at a smaller level Of our social circle Devotee circle We can have a culture That inspires values within us We can have association That inspires us to bring out Our higher side And thus, even if the broader society Is going towards degradation We can move towards elevation We can move towards improvement We can become purified And thus, we can become agents of change Over a period of time Life in the modes of passion and ignorance Becomes frustrating And people also see this There is In the western world There are many movements Which are in Fragmental ways Trying to move towards goodness There is the green movement which wants eco-friendly living There is the vegan movement Which is non-violent food So there are many different movements like that Through which people are looking To some level Towards some kind of mode of goodness But these are fragmented There is no overall world view That can integrate this Those who want to Protect animal rights, just focus on that one thing Those who want to protect the environment That one thing only But the bhakti world view Offers us an integrated world view By which These These These fragmented Groupings for a higher life For a higher level of consciousness They can be given an overall framework And then people can be Systematically elevated So by Doing our part in trying to rise To higher modes of goodness And towards transcendence We can become also Agents of positive change Where we help Inspire values Even when the broader culture Is instigating cravings So I will summarise What I spoke I spoke about how In our relationships If we know people Then we can push buttons And trigger people Manipulating them to do What we want them to do But this way Through such relations we can all become Victims, we can become degraded And Shurpanakha did that with Ravana She had her own agenda She wanted Ravana to get back For having insulted her And she wanted to get back to Ravana Because he had killed her He had arranged to have her husband killed So because of that She distorted the reality Although she had gone to Ram Out of her own desire To have him, she told him I had gone Because I wanted Sita for you And once the desire Was triggered Then for Ravana Initially his intentions stopped him But once the mind catches something Then it just Nothing can stop it, it just overpowers So I talked about The four characteristics of the mind The mind is restless Not staying at one thing for long Even children are restless But the mind is a mad man It’s like a restless person in a mental asylum Extremely dangerous And if we have a It is It is like a body builder Who is in a mental asylum And very restless, very difficult to control And on top of that It’s obstinate, it’s holding on So when the mind catches something It’s very difficult To It just holds on to it Very difficult to let it go, that’s how people become addicted The mind is Holding on to it No matter what the cost So society Is actually meant to bring out The higher side of the people Not the lower side Unfortunately The advertising industry Which is widespread in today’s world It focused on triggering desire and greed Within people Because that’s how the products would be sold And even earlier It was by appealing to the Intelligence of people But when psychologists proposed That actually our rational faculties Like a small canoe Atop our emotional side Which is like a storm, stormy ocean Then they started triggering The emotional side of the people So I talked about how Women got seduced Into smoking By calling cigars as The torches of freedom Similarly men were controlled and manipulated By Triggering their lust through the Pornography industry So when the lowest desires are Triggered, then People don’t even Have any basic level of Control So that means in the mode of goodness There is inner control and outer control In the mode of passion, there is no inner control But at least outer control One wants to do something physically Mode of ignorance, one has no inner control or outer control Just wants to consume So Sensuality As depicted in the media Enjoyed vicariously That is like second hand animal life So It just cripples people’s capacity To work To develop responsible relationships Takes away their initiative And cripples their capacity So what do we do? In a society where Lower cravings are being triggered We need to at an individual level Protect ourselves So if there are in our social circle People who trigger us We keep a safe distance from them And more importantly We can’t just say no to the negative Especially in the mental world Because to not think of something Is to think of it So what we need to do is have something positive to think about We need positive association Which will bring out our higher desires So Every relationship we pursue responsibly It makes us Come out of the moodiness of the mind We think about the other person And then we act So that itself is a Some level of resistance to the mind And that helps us to grow But if the relationship is Devotional, centred on Krishna Then there is not only the impetus To change but also the empowerment To change because Krishna is All pure And I talked about the triangularity of desires We don’t Get desires just by seeing the objects But by seeing others enjoying the objects And especially in spiritual life Often the objects may not appear very attractive That’s why associating With those who have A deep taste for Devotional activities, for worshipping the deities For studying scripture For doing services Then by associating with them our higher desires Get activated Even though the overall association may be bad But if we create A good association around us Or we place ourselves in a good association Then our higher side Can come out And then we can become agents of change In a broader world which is also At some level seeking change When the life and mode of goodness and passion Becomes tiring People seek goodness As they are doing through the green movement Or the vegan movement But the overall context The overall worldview That can integrate this longing for Higher life, that is provided by the Bhakti wisdom And by applying it in our own lives And by becoming Examples for others We can contribute in our own small ways To shaping a better world Thank you very much Hare Krishna Are there any questions or comments? First of all thank you so much Understanding things like Triangularity Emotional faculties How to correct yourself How to come out of all these But one question that always hits my mind We are part and parcel of Krishna We are the spiritual world And we have been told We have our own desires And that’s why we came to material world But then Let’s say for example my son He wants to eat chocolate I say don’t eat chocolate, it’s not good But then I’ll give him a pile of chocolates I say that okay, I’ll give you a pile of chocolates And then you can control yourself Over here Krishna has not only Given us so many material things to enjoy At the same time they have given me This strong obstinate mind You said that So why it is so that we have given So many bad things And then you come out of it I think this is a very common question Asked so many people And generally it’s very difficult to answer So if a child wants to eat chocolate We’ll tell don’t eat But he won’t give a pile of chocolates So similarly Why does Krishna He gives us so many In this world there are so many objects to enjoy So why does Krishna give that And then on top of our mind It also is so widely Attached to enjoyment And then how can we control ourselves Why are we put in such a vulnerable situation first of all Krishna is reciprocal See the relationship of Parent and child Is appropriate in some ways To define Our relationship with Krishna But in some ways It does not describe it fully Because Generally when you talk about parent and child We always have a mind 3-4 year old child And may be a 30-40 year old parent But we are not like small children We have free will We are grown up So the dynamic between Say a 30 year old child and a 60 year old father Will be very different Then between a 30 year old father and a 30 year old child So I would say that That relationship is Every metaphor that we use For describing our relationship with Krishna Or for anything spiritual It has certain context It has certain limitations So having said that When we Look at the world I said Krishna is reciprocal Reciprocal means That he has given his free will Even in a normal parental relationship How much can a child A parent can have much more control over a child When the child is 3 or 5 or 7 or 10 Even by the time When the child comes to 15 or 16 The amount of control the parents can have Becomes much lesser It’s like Often when children come to their teenage years Parents start thinking What happened to my sweet little boy? Where did he disappear? Who is this sullen, angry, uncommunicative person Who has come in his place? It’s a difficult phase to go through And then Parents may restrict the pocket money Of a child when the child is 3 years old But parents can’t restrict A 25 year old son How much can they restrict? Not much So we have a relationship with Krishna But we also have free will The parents can guide a 25 year old child But the 25 year old son Not child, 25 year old son Or daughter for that matter They will take their own decisions So we have our free will And the very existence of free will Requires An arena for the exercise of free will If I say that I give you free will But you can You can play as much as you want But you have to play Within this 5×5 square feet cubicle What can you play Especially if you want to play a physical sport So the very Existence of free will Requires the existence of an arena Where free will can be executed And executed means it can also be misused It can be used, it can be misused Now this world Is not necessarily an arena Only for the misuse of free will We see that actions have consequences And You know recently It’s a big question Somebody asked me a big topic And I will not go into that Somebody asked a question Why do bad things happen to good people So I asked Why should bad things not happen to good people What do I mean It’s not that I am saying that bad things should happen to good people But why do we ask this question That bad things should not happen to good people Because We expect And we perceive also A correlation between action and result We do something I put my hand in fire My hand gets burned I overeat My stomach gets upset I eat too much cold food on a cold night My throat gets sore So we do see actions And consequences In some cases We may not see the consequence Coming immediately But broadly we do see correlation between cause and effect So In this world Krishna Has given us As he is reciprocal He gives us The freedom to see What we want to see If we want to see God’s hand God’s existence and God’s benevolence We can see the cause effect We can see the correlation, we can see the design And we can turn towards God If we want to turn away from him There is facility even for that Now as far as the Sense objects being present in the world Which allure us That Is simply because We have the desire to enjoy so the facility is provided Now how much facility Who gets that depends on their past karma Some people by their past karma Are very wealthy, very attractive And then they can attract many more sense objects Some people may not be better That’s the result of past karma Now within that How we use Our free will is always up to us So why are there so many Bad options as you said So many bad choices and so few Good choices That’s how always it is In any multiple choice exam Four wrong answers One right answer So similarly in this world All the variety It reflects The kind of desire that people have to enjoy The various species Also reflect the soul’s desires To enjoy in different ways So basically because Most people have material desires People who have material desires are far far more Than the people who have spiritual desires In this world being a facility It’s a facility for people to execute their free will Exercise their free will Whichever way they want If more people want to misuse their free will Then there is facility corresponding So it’s a reflection of our desires It’s not a trap necessarily See when a teacher Gives a multiple choice exam The teacher’s purpose Even giving the wrong options Is not to fail the student The teacher’s purpose is to test the student If the student has studied We’ll tick the right mark We’ll move on We’ll get marks So like that in the world The wrong options that are there They are meant to test us They are not meant to mislead us And as far as our mind Our own mind is concerned The nature of the mind Is also a result of How we have Thought and desired in the past Some people say If they were born in cultured families Brought up by good parents Then their minds are not that contaminated Sometimes after they become free Get some freedom, go to college Then they may contaminate their minds But it’s up to us The mind, the way it functions Is largely a result Of the way we have made it function So if I go on Google And I search something And then If I have read a lot about sports Then no matter what I search Some sports news are popping up Because that’s what I have searched in the past So Google is not It’s also reciprocal In a sense The way we have searched The searches will get customised accordingly So our mind is like that Whatever we have done It tends to auto-repeat that So As far as Krishna is concerned He makes this world As an arena For experimentation if he wanted And an arena for Rectification if he wanted So both ways are there In the life of everyone At some time or the other Something happens Which makes them feel I want to explore Something higher There must be something higher I want to explore it So at that time It’s up to their free will Whether they take that prompting Or they don’t take that prompting The super soul is in the hearts of everyone And the super soul is offering that prompting Sometimes we achieve something And then we feel there is nothing great about it Must be something better in my life Sometimes we get a big reversal in our life What is the point of it What is really important, what counts That can prompt us higher But either way The important thing is The super soul does guide us So the world has its purpose And If we If we look At anything Divorced from its purpose Any design can be faltered I may have a very good phone But if I decide to type my whole book My next book on the phone This keyboard is so small Typing is so difficult Stupid phone The phone is not stupid It is meant for some other purpose It can be used for typing also But it is not for typing a book So any design can be faltered If we divorce it from its purpose Similarly If we understand what is the purpose of this world It has twin purposes Experimentation and rectification So for those who want to experiment It has many options But for those who want to rectify That option is also there So those who want to turn towards God It is difficult And it is especially difficult in Kali Yuga But then that also is reciprocal Those souls Who in the previous Yugas Did not choose to turn towards Krishna Those souls who wanted more and more gross sensuality Those are the souls who are born in Kali Yuga So our birth in this situation Is also a result of Our own past desires only But even in such a situation Krishna is there And Krishna manifests He comes as his holy name He comes as Lord Chaitanya And he gives us the opportunity To turn towards him So if we take that opportunity We will be elevated Rather than Faulting the Presence of sense objects Or faulting the presence of the Wild mind What we can focus on is Beyond the presence of all this Is the presence of Krishna in our heart And the presence of opportunities to turn towards Krishna So Every time We turn away from a temptation And turn towards Krishna It may seem like a struggle And it may seem like a pointless struggle Today I give up But tomorrow again it will come How long can I go on like this But actually every time we choose Krishna We are becoming stronger And capacity to choose the higher And reject the lower Is becoming stronger And then it will become easier and easier As we become stronger and stronger So because of the Because of the misuse of the free will in the past Things are a little difficult right now But they will become easier Krishna says that That which tastes like poison in the beginning Will taste like nectar in the end Krishna says this is the nature of Elevated joys That we have to go through a Phase of poison initially If we can tolerate and penetrate through that Phase of poison Then the nectar awaiting us Makes it all worth it And even that initial phase of poison Which we have to tolerate That becomes much easier to tolerate If we have association of devotees So if we just penetrate through that Then this immense In fact unlimited nectar Waiting for us Thank you Hare Krishna When we chant on the holy name We have to Generally we will be chanting loudly And we will be hearing So is that is the only desire Or even our mind should also Focus on the Lotus feet of Krishna Or symbols of Krishna When we are chanting So which is the So is this chanting Should we just hear the holy name Or should we Our mind focus on On say the Lotus feet of Krishna or something like that It depends The important principle is That we are meant to Absorb ourselves in Krishna And the primary means Especially in chanting is the sound of the holy name So There is the organic Way in which The sound triggers The recollection of the person When say I Call out to somebody If I know that person If I call out to him Call out to Ishwara Govara As soon as you use the word Ishwara Govara I am calling out the name But that name triggers From the Nama comes Rupa, Guna and Leela I remember how he looks like I remember his qualities And I remember what are the activities that he is doing So when we have a personal Relationship with someone The name itself naturally triggers the Thoughts about the form Activities and qualities So at present Although we understand Krishna as a person But that’s an intellectual understanding We don’t have so much realisation That’s why the name Chanting the name does not Immediately trigger the desire Sorry, trigger the Rupa, Guna, Leela So what do we do in such a situation Because that triggering doesn’t happen So the Nama Seems quite dry I am chanting, chanting, chanting But I am not feeling anything This sound I am repeating again and again But the fact is that Just that repetition of the sound is purifying us And that is Fostering the attraction Of the soul for Krishna And gradually by that From the Nama, Rupa, Guna, Leela Will emerge Till that happens If we feel That some other Krishna related stimuli Can help us better focus On the holy name Then we can have that So if we have a Favourite picture of the deities Or the picture of the lotus feet of Krishna Or some Glory of the holy name Or some Some quote which Inspires us to chant Seriously, to practise Adana Bhakti seriously Or say the picture of Our initiation when we are taking I made a vow to chant Now all these things Can Inspire us to focus on the holy name So it’s not that It’s not that The picture of the deities Should become the substitute For hearing the holy name It is meant to become an aid So it’s not that We are running on two tracks That externally I am verbally Chanting the holy names And internally I am thinking about Oh the lotus feet of Krishna Beautiful form of Krishna It’s not that two tracks Rather we want the mind to go on this track But if it goes off this track Instead of letting it wander all over the universe We give it something Krishna related to And then from that We get it back So this is The concept Can sometimes be called as the point of concentration And the circle of concentration So If I cannot focus on the point If I cannot just hear the holy name Then instead of letting the mind Wander to my job, my finances My this, my that All those things Let it wander to something related to Krishna It’s at least Somewhere in the jurisdiction of Krishna consciousness And from there If I have beautiful details Oh these details look so beautiful Krishna is so attractive Oh that very Krishna’s name I am chanting right now Let me chant it intently That way from that circle of concentration We try to bring our thoughts Back to the point of concentration But if But because most often for us To focus on the point of concentration alone Is difficult And then we may just ritualistically Chant the holy names While the mind is Nowhere near the point of concentration Then better have a circle of concentration Around it But as we keep chanting like this As our consciousness Becomes more and more Infused with Krishna Then the Rupa guna leela will organically Emerge So we don’t meditate on the rupa guna leela as a substitute For the naam But as an aid for the naam We can do that It will come automatically Eventually it will come automatically When our mind is getting disturbed Then only we have to focus on these things Otherwise we have to focus more on the Sound Yes correct And also Kavai mana Krishna padara vindayor Like that is said So is that That point should be taken After chanting or How does it So when it is said that in the Bhagavatam that Kavai mana Krishna padara vindayor Fix the mind on Krishna Lotus feet Is that After chanting or what does it mean See there that is the section in the Bhagavatam Which is describing How Ambarish Maharaj engaged in bhakti And he is describing various Faculties so With his speech he glorified Krishna So with his hands he cleaned the lord’s temple With his feet He walked to the holy places So this is basically describing How the different The different Bodily faculties can be Engaged in bhakti So it’s not that All of these are To be done simultaneously So when he was Cleaning the temple was he also hearing Krishna katha Maybe but certainly when he was Cleaning the temple he was not walking to a holy place You cannot be doing both so The important thing is to Be in the consciousness of Krishna So Kavai mana Krishna padara vindayor That is At the level of the mind fix the mind on Krishna Fix consciousness on Krishna But if we are chanting We don’t have to see the holy name And Krishna as two different things The holy name and Krishna are The same avinnatva naam naamino So when we chant the names of Krishna We are actually fixing the mind on Krishna So it’s not necessary for us to do something else But the point of that particular verse is that All the channels of our consciousness All the channels by which our consciousness Goes in different directions We use all those channels And place Krishna on those channels And that’s how we can spiritualise our consciousness Thank you Are there any other questions? Yes Too often like when we are Dealing with negativity around us So usually what happens is that We know somebody is It can be of two forms One is like people are interested Always talking about some things Which are not important at all And we understand that these days for time And the second time people are Sometimes unhappy or they have some kind of Problems going in their life They want to discuss But when they come to you They have expectation that you know You will help them So often when you are dealing with Negativity in life of others And they are looking for They are coming with you for a solution To ask for a solution So the social welfare aspect And your individual consciousness And it’s you know How you upgrade it They go at different levels Because if you are indulging in their problem And you are trying to solve their problem Then your peace of mind also gets disturbed So it impacts Somewhere it also impacts On your you know Level of consciousness And you have to come down at some level So that you can match And you can try to solve their problem So how the social well-being And individual consciousness Like scaling up they go Together So if People tell us about their problems And we try to solve them And trying to help them our consciousness Gets more involved in material things Then we can’t elevate our consciousness So how do we both Spiritualising our consciousness Spiritualising others consciousness also And helping others also Yeah It’s a challenge There are two Ways in which this May work out One is if those people are also spiritually Interested And our Offering them a sympathetic ear Helps them Become spiritually Interested And we understand at a material level There can be material solutions To material problems But the ultimate solution is to Raise one’s consciousness to become more Spiritualised So we may offer them something practical But our purpose is To To help them to come to Krishna So for that purpose We have to reach out to people We have to Take two steps towards them They take two steps towards us Or we may take three steps towards them They take one step towards us But they have to have also some spiritual Interest If that is not there Then that interaction Rather than raising them up Will pull us down So if there is no Spiritual element in it And there is no professional obligation For us If they are not just project partners and working on a project They are talking about some personal issues Then we have to We have to take care of ourselves In Air flights When the security warning comes up They always tell that If there is a shortage of oxygen Put the mask on yourself first Then put it on your chit Isn’t it? So Similarly If we ourselves Are not in spiritual consciousness Or we are not adequately spiritually nourished Then we can’t really help others much So that’s why It’s not Selfish To have to say no To some people Because it’s just An acknowledgement Of our humanity Being human Means being limited And Being limited means We always have to make choices So if we are not Saying yes to less important things If we are not saying No to less important things Then we are unintentionally Saying no to more important things If I can use the time to study scripture And if That time I am talking something mundane with someone Then How can I say no to this person? But then basically I am saying no to shastra I am saying no to Krishna’s message in the Bhagavad Gita I am saying no to Srila Prabhupada who has written the books for us I am saying no to the Devotees whom we are conducting the programme So We have to We have to Acknowledge our humanity And that means Accepting that we are limited And we may have to Say no to certain people So generally It is very difficult to say no to anyone It’s a So it’s far easier To say yes than to say no So It’s human tendency Unless we want to hurt someone And then we deliberately say no I’ll never do this But that’s unlikely So generally it’s very difficult to say no If somebody asks us for Can you come out for a party this evening? Now If we have nothing planned at that time Then we’ll try to scramble For some reason for saying no Nothing comes up, then we’ll reluctantly say yes But If say that evening already We have a programme I am going for this programme, so I won’t be able to come So we are able to We may or may not tell about the programme But for ourselves at least The no comes easier When there is a yes for something higher So rather than thinking That no I will not help people We can think that I need to also purify myself I need to Equip myself so that I can better help people And These are the things which I am doing Our own spiritual elevation is not only For us We want to elevate ourselves spiritually So that we can benefit others also So that example of Offering the oxygen mask To oneself first is quite graphic But we could take it in a more expanded level Say if there is a hospital And next to that There is a medical college And There has been a major accident And There are people rushing into the hospital There is an emergency over there And At that time even people who are in the hospital Let me just be a medical student They may rush out and help Doing whatever they can But in the routine course of the hospital’s operation If there is some urgent need And some uninformed person Comes and says What are you doing? Just sitting here for hours and hours in this college There are so many people sick in the hospital Go and help them Do something practical And You cannot do something practical Unless you are trained So the lay person may not understand The need But those who are medical students they understand My goal is to help The patients who are sick But without the necessary training I can’t help them So we don’t see Our attempts for Our endeavours for For our own self-realisation As As something entirely Different from our Attempts for helping others There are preparations By which we will be able to help others Better So if we plan our Schedule properly By which we already Say yes to important things Then saying no To less important things becomes not so difficult So if I have Decided that during my lunch hour I am going to hear one class One class every day I am going to hear Somebody in the lunch hour wants to come and chit chat You say not now I will talk with you later And later we may find some time We may talk for some time Then we decide how important that is How much time we should give for that person We do want to help others But we want to help others in a way That is actually helpful to them Sometimes we just talk with them practically And so much time goes in talking And nothing happens So We have to take care of ourselves And we want to be equipped enough so that we can help others Does that answer your question? Thank you Shall we stop here? Any other questions? I think we also have to do dharma dharma So I think we should So thank you very much So Krishna Those who liked today’s session They can give another round of applause for Pooja Let’s give our gratitude to His Grace Chaitanya Charan Prabhu By chanting Hari Bol three times Hari Bol Hari Bol