Go beyond rationality and imagination to revelation for relishing Krishna’s lotus feet

[Bhagavatam class on Srimad-Bhagavatam 03.28.21 at ISKCON, Perth, Australia]

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Transcript

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

So, today morning we are discussing about how to meditate on the Supreme Lord. And here, the previous verse stated that rather than meditating on the Lord collectively, you can meditate on parts of His body individually. And here, the recommendation for meditation starts from His lotus feet.

Now, Prabhupada explains in the purport, like a quotable quote, he says imagination is always imagination and results only in further imagination. So, what does this mean? Actually, there are two broad ways in which one can try to understand God. One is through conceptualization and the other is through revelation.

Conceptualization is the bottom-up approach, where we try to understand what God may be like. Whereas, revelation is the top-down approach, where scripture reveals to us what God is like. Now, during conceptualization, we can do our reasoning, we can do our analysis, and we can come to some understanding.

And we can get, broadly speaking, an understanding that there is something beyond matter. Because we have a longing for enduring life, we have longing for enduring existence, and that we do not see in the world of matter. We see that at the level of spirit.

That can be fulfilled only at the level of something that is non-material. So, that there is something unchanging beyond the material that one can infer through reasoning. And we can also consider, okay, there is order in this world, so probably there is an order maintainer in the spiritual world.

So, at the non-material level of reality. So, that way we can conceive of the absolute in some terms. So, that means there are, if we consider, there is existence beyond this world.

Jiva Goswami, in his Andharvas, analyzes the understanding of the absolute truth at three levels. So, just the understanding that there is something beyond this world of matter, there is something enduring, something spiritual. He says that is simply existence.

So, that is Brahman realization. So, at the level of Brahman realization, one just conceives that there is enduring existence. So, those who see the absolute only as Brahman, they think that the transcendental level of reality is simply a stream of consciousness.

So, for example, say now I am looking at you, you are looking at me. Now, in this situation, there are three things. There is the object of consciousness, say you are looking at me, so I am the object, and it is you who are looking, so you are the subject, and in between connecting us is the stream of consciousness.

So, at the Brahman level of realization, one thinks that only the stream of consciousness is real. So, there is no object and there is no subject. So, only there is existence.

Now, if we consider the absolute truth as having various potencies. So, here the absolute truth is, we can say, for all practical purposes, having no potency. There is only existence.

There is nothing that is being done. All that is happening in this world is simply in the world of illusion. And when you go beyond this world of illusion, there is simply ceaseless, changeless existence.

Ceaseless means it always continues, but it continues without any change. That is the Brahman conception. And this conception may at one sense seem attracted to those who are agitated by the constant changes of this world.

There is no peace in this world. So, those who are attracted only by peace, oh, a ceaseless, changeless consciousness. It will be so peaceful.

However, who is it that is going to acknowledge that? Because we ourselves won't exist. It is only consciousness and consciousness has no meaning unless something is perceived and someone is perceiving. So, this is a very preliminary level of understanding.

Beyond that is the Paramatma Realization. In Paramatma Realization, Yuga Swami says that we conceive of the absolute with material potencies. What do you mean by material potencies? Absolute is always transcendental.

But the absolute has the potency to control material nature. That means the absolute is not just ceaseless, changeless consciousness. There is a conscious being who is overseeing the material existence.

And here, we don't conceive of God in his self-existence much. What does he do in his abode? What are his activities? Don't think so much about that. It is only how God relates to this world.

One of my friends is a judge and he told me that after he became a judge and he worked as a judge for 5-10 years, he got a realization. He is also a devotee. So, he said if God had to be, if God were just a judge, then the job of God would be very boring.

We just keep judging people for the rest of eternity. You get this, you get this, you get this. So, judges also, they look forward to their personal life.

So, God, he does administer this world. He does relate with this world. But at the level of Paramatma realization, there is no conception of God's self-existence, independent of this world.

And that God's self-existence, separate from this world, is what is understood as the Bhagavan level of realization. So, at the Bhagavan level, we understand God has material potencies by which he controls this world, but he also has spiritual potencies by which he reciprocates with his devotees in the spiritual world. So, now, this is the most complete understanding.

God is ceaseless changeless consciousness. But that ceaseless changeless consciousness is not a limitation on him. There is no change in the sense that in the spiritual world, there is no death, there is no destruction, but still there is dynamism.

There is exchange, there is reciprocation, there is love, there are events that happen over there. And so, in this way, this understanding of the absolute as Bhagavan is the most complete. So, now, this understanding, with our reasoning, we can come to the level of Paramatma.

But we cannot, with our reasoning, ever come to the level of Krishna as Bhagavan. We may even conceive that God is a person, but what is the nature of that personality? By reasoning, we cannot come to the level of understanding that God is a bluish black young boy who plays with cows and plays the flute. This requires revelation.

So, there is, broadly speaking, if you consider theology as a study of God, there is rational theology and there is a revelational theology. Now, the two rational theologies, the understanding of that God that we get by our reasoning, by our rationality. Revelational theology is the understanding of God that we get through revelation.

Now, the two are not contradictory. It is not that revelational theology is irrational or it is not that rational theology will give us something which is contradictory to revelational theology. The two have overlapping areas, but there is something which is beyond reasoning.

Why should God be a bluish black person? God has his own free will, he is his own person and he can make his choices. So, his choices are not governed by any particular reason. So, he is absolute.

He is a person. He has his free will. So, why does Krishna love a peacock feather? Why not some other bird's feather? You could say peacock feather is beautiful.

But it is not that because peacock feather is beautiful, Krishna rears it. It is rather that because Krishna rears it, peacock feather is beautiful. So, it is Krishna's choice is independent.

That is the meaning of he is Swaraat. So, when we can go with reasoning to a certain understanding of God, but when we start doing imagination, God may be like this, God may be like that, God may be like that, then we can come up with different ideas, none of which will actually satisfy the human heart. So, through imagination we can, different people throughout history have come up with different conceptions of God.

Currently, we have the age of technology. So, now there is a fast growing in America, not really fast growing, but it is growing, new religion they call it. And this religion they call is that God is the ultimate supercomputer.

And they say that they have actually made prayers to the God of artificial intelligence. And they said that this God is evolving through man. So, as our technology is advancing, this God is manifesting himself.

And they have a whole system of religion and worship, which is devoted to this conception of God as a supercomputer. And their idea is that actually this God, he lives for, this is peculiar, I do not want to go too much into it, they say that this God is actually one who lives for a thousand years. But at the end of thousand years, the God, he recycles himself by all the genes of the body that are there, they are transported into a computer, and from that software, they are transported into another hardware.

And that is how God keeps reincarnating. And he is eternal, it is all completely speculation. He is eternal because his software always remains the same.

And he says, if we worship this God sincerely enough, he will make us also eternal. How will he make us eternal? He will give us the intelligence by which we will understand how to recycle our genes. And then we will also become eternal.

So, this is the field of study in which this is revealed is called as transhumanism. Humanism is the idea that humanity is the center of all existence. Transhumanism is striking, they say, humanity is faced by problems that it must be able to solve.

The problems are old age, disease and death. And the way to solve it is through technological advancement. So, the way they have come up is, just as when a computer grows old, we discard the computer, but we move on to another computer.

And we keep functioning like that, say, body is like a computer, brain is like a computer, discard it and go on to another computer, just transport the software. So, the point which I am making over here is imagination is always imagination, that different people can imagine different things about what the nature of the absolute is. Now, it is almost like the human heart, its congenital condition, by its very nature, it cannot believe in nothing.

When atheists say, we do not believe in God, what do atheists do? They make the laws of nature into God. They make those who are champion atheists, they start worshipping them like cult figures, like God. So, the human heart cannot live without belief.

And we want to believe something bigger than us, something better than us. A prominent scientist, when an atheist scientist, he is like a champion of evolution. And when he is asked, how could evolution have led to this, this, such complexity? He says, now, if you cannot understand how evolution led to the creation of something, he says, that is your problem, not evolution's problem.

Evolution is far smarter than what you are. This is, you can replace evolution with God. If you cannot understand how God did something, we say that, one of the defining attributes of God, Jiva Goswami explains is that, he is Achintya.

He can do things which human intelligence cannot conceive of. And this same attribute of Achintyatva, atheists are transferring it to evolution. If you cannot understand how evolution has done it, that is your problem, not evolution's problem.

That means, they are saying evolution is inconceivable. So, essentially, the human heart, if it does not get revelation, then it will revel in imagination. We will try to imagine something, imagine this, imagine that, and in that way, it will try to come up with some idea of what God may be.

There is a prominent impersonalist teacher, the human heart, as I said, that if it does not get revelation, it will revel in imagination. So, this impersonalist teacher, he comes and says that, I have not come to tell you, I am God. I have not come to tell you, he is God.

I have come to tell you, you are God. This is very titillating to the ego of the conditioned soul. So, it is one thing to imagine some being to be God.

It is quite another to imagine oneself to be God. So, when we are trying to understand God, we need revelation. And it is through revelation that rudayandhakaram, as it is said, the darkness of the heart, that will be removed.

The metaphor of light is often used to talk about spiritual reality or about God. The Back to Godhead magazine, Shila Prabhupada had its master slogan as Krishna is light, maya is darkness. Where there is Krishna, there cannot be maya.

This is from Chaitanya Charita Amrit and it derives from the Upanishads, which say, go away from darkness, go towards light. Let there not be darkness, let there be light. Go from death to deathlessness.

So, now when we talk about light and darkness, normally we think of light as that situation where we can see things clearly and darkness as a situation where we cannot see things clearly. Now, when it talks about darkness in the heart, here the description of the beautiful form of the Lord is given, especially his lotus feet is given. Vajraankusha, there is a thunderbolt, there is the gourd, there is a lotus.

These are described as symbols. Now, there are acharyas who elaborately describe what all is there in the lotus feet of the Lord. And we can go into the specifics of that meditation also.

What are the specific attributes in the lotus feet of the Lord? More importantly, in the last verse, which the Prabhupada stresses, that by such meditation what happens? The darkness in the heart goes away. Now, the darkness of a heart, the darkness of the heart is somewhat different from the darkness of the world. In the darkness of the world, we cannot see.

But in the darkness of the heart, we see falsely. So, at one level, with the darkness of the heart, we cannot see the Lord present in our heart. But in the darkness of the heart, we start seeing attractive, we start seeing worldly objects as if they are attractive, irresistibly attractive.

And this is a darkness which makes us, which gives us distorted vision. Just like if somebody is driving and they don't have eyes and they won't drive the car only, but if somebody has got cataract and then they see objects in two or they see objects at different distance from what they are, then that becomes more dangerous. So, similarly for us, when the heart is dark, at that time, at one level, we can't see Krishna.

But at another level, we get captivated by illusion. So, suppose somebody goes to a movie theater to watch a movie, then when the movie starts, two things happen. First is, the lights go off.

All around there is darkness. The second is, the light goes on, on the screen. So, the light goes on on the screen and all around there is darkness.

The consciousness gets riveted to whatever is happening on the screen. And in that way, the person does not see that somebody will be coming next to them about to stab them. But the person doesn't see because they are captivated on the screen.

So, similarly for us, when we come into illusion, there are two energies that cover us. The first energy is the avaranatmika shakti. The second is the prakshipatmika shakti.

So, the avaranatmika shakti is that which covers us and prakshipatmika shakti is the energy which propels us. So, we get the first light in the theater going off. So, we can't see anything.

That's like the avaranatmika shakti. We can't see anything. We can't see spiritual reality.

But prakshipatmika shakti is the light on the movie screen going on. Our consciousness rushes toward that and we get captivated by that. So, the darkness in the heart is not the darkness that blinds.

It is the darkness that binds. The darkness of the heart, it does not so much blind us as bind us because it makes us captivated by certain objects and then in pursuing those objects, we get bound. So, how exactly does the lotus feet of the Lord free us from this? The lotus feet of the Lord are actually all, they are like the Lord, all attractive and when we meditate on Him, any limb of Him, but specifically on His lotus feet.

Meditating on the lotus feet refers to approaching with humility because when we bow down to someone, when we touch the feet of someone, we actually, we are putting ourselves in a humble position. Now, in our relationship with the Lord, there are two aspects. I will elaborate on this in tomorrow, future classes.

But basically, there is submission and there is affection. Submission, when we understand the Lord's greatness, oh, He is so great, that means submission. We are talking with someone and suddenly we come to know, oh, that person is the Prime Minister of Australia.

Oh, really? Okay, whatever he is speaking, let me take it a little more seriously. What is he saying? Say, a child is playing football and then the child comes to know the person with whom I am playing football is in the international team of Australia. Oh, then if he tells me something about football, let me take it seriously.

So, when we understand somebody's greatness, that brings submission. And when we understand some person's sweetness, if that person is a great football player, but that person is very courteous, polite, nice, that brings affection. So, the understanding of the Lord's greatness brings submission, the attention of the Lord's sweetness brings affection.

And understanding both greatness and sweetness, which leads to both submission and affection, that leads to transformation, that makes our heart attracted to Him. So, essentially, when we meditate on the Lord's lotus feet, the primary effect is we are actually talking about submission. The Lord is so great, I am so small, let me meditate on Him.

And with this mood of meditation in submission, gradually we understand Krishna's greatness. We try to, we become submissive to Him and try to follow His instructions and that purifies us. So, taking shelter of the Lord's lotus feet, as is often talked about, that basically means becoming tightly, because firmly fixed in the mood that we are His servants, that He is our Lord and we are His servants.

That understanding, it makes us steady, it makes us strong. And it gradually starts, by that steady connection with Krishna, we start, our intelligence starts getting awakened, our higher taste starts getting awakened. And then the darkness in the heart starts getting dispelled.

Krishna talks about this in the Bhagavad Gita when He says that, in 10.11 and 10.12, He talks about two things. He talks, 10.10, He talks about, He says, those who become devoted to Me, I will give them the intelligence by which they will come to Me. Now, in the next verse, He says, what is lacking? Why don't they have the intelligence already? Because if the road is dark, we don't know which way to take, which way to take, which way not to take.

With the torchlight of knowledge, I will awaken, I will activate, I will activate the light within and destroy the darkness. Krishna says, I bring this light. So, this light which Krishna provides is actually devotional knowledge.

It is not just intellectual knowledge. We definitely want to use our reasoning to understand Krishna. When we practice bhakti, initially we use our intelligence and try to understand and that we could say is our reasoning, our intellectual capacity being used.

But as we keep practicing bhakti intelligently, Krishna gives intelligence from within. That is the revelation coming from Krishna and that is that is revelational knowledge. Prabhupada, in many of his lectures or many of his letters rather, his disciples who were doing preaching very resourcefully would say, because you are so intelligent, Krishna, because you are so sincere, because you are so sincere, Krishna is giving you intelligence from within, but how you can best serve him.

So, this is the dhami buddhi yogam tam. Now, the lotus feet of the Lord are what helps us to connect with him. When we connect with him, then that connection gives us illumination, then the darkness goes away.

The gopis of Vrindavan are in the mood of very intense and intimate devotion and yet they too cherish the lotus feet of the Lord. In the Gopi Gita, which comes in the 31st chapter of the 10th canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam, there are three broad references to the lotus feet of the Lord. So, at a first level, they talk about how they see the Lord's lotus feet.

They say, चर्णपंकजम् संतमंचते रामर्णास्तनेश्व अर्पयाधिहन् He says, O dear Lord, we are distressed by separation from you. Please come and bestow those lotus feet on us. Place those lotus feet on our chest.

Let those lotus feet enter into our heart and by that, संतमंचते, they'll bring the supreme satisfaction. All the agitation, all the distress that is in our heart will go away when the lotus feet come in our heart. The same mood, they say, actually, even Brahmaji, he meditated on the lotus feet of the Lord and by meditating on your lotus feet, they actually became free.

So, one is they talk about the greatness of the lotus feet. They say, प्रनत्देहिनाम् पापकर्षणम् तुर्णचरानुगम् श्रीनिकेतनम् पानिःफणार्पितम् तैपदांभुजम् कुरुणकुचेशुना कुरुन्धिरुच्छयम् Talk about the greatness of the Lord's lotus feet. If you just bow down to these feet, all sinful activities, sinful reactions get destroyed.

प्रनत्देहिनाम् पापकर्षणम् तुर्णचरानुगम् श्रीनिकेतनम् That those who bow down to the lotus feet, their desires get fulfilled. Even Padmaja, Brahmaji worshipped the lotus feet. So, this is the reverential mode of approaching the lotus feet.

They have such potency to purify us, to liberate us, to elevate us. And they also talk about how the same Lord, whose lotus feet can destroy sinful reactions, those lotus feet are being served by even Brahmaji. He says, but what are those lotus feet doing? Saying that, तुर्णचरानुगम् श्रीनिकेतनम् That these lotus feet are following the तुर्णचर, those grass eaters, that means the cows.

That actually the yogis strive for millions of years to get a glimpse of the lotus feet of the Lord. But here he is saying, the Gopis are saying that those lotus feet are following the cows and the cows when they wander in the forests of Vrindavan. That is the beauty of Vrindavan.

That the Supreme Lord, who is worshipped and adored and sought by people, by spiritual seekers all over the world, He is seeking the cows, He is serving the cows. And He is thinking, they say that how is this so amazing that Krishna is serving His devotees. He is running after the cows, catching the cows, guiding the cows towards food, towards food for them, protecting them.

This is the intimate vision of the lotus feet. Even in this intimacy, there is the understanding of the greatness. The Vrajavasis, they treat Krishna's lotus feet as धरणि मन्दनम्, धेयमापदी धरणि मन्दनम्.

They treat the lotus feet as a monument on the earth. This is an ornament, which is like a monument. Sometimes some buildings are old and special buildings and the government declares them as heritage buildings.

Then nobody should tamper with them, nobody should damage them, they are protected. So like that, the Vrajavasis, they treat the footprints of Krishna's lotus feet like a monument, that is to be protected. They say these are the ornaments of the earth.

And धरणि मन्दनम्, so Krishna has marks on His lotus feet and when He puts the lotus feet in the ground, the ground gets marked. And that, seeing that gives such intense ecstasy. When Akrura first comes to Vrindavan to see Krishna, he comes to the outskirts of Vrindavan and he sees the footprints of Krishna and he actually gets off his chariot and offers obeisances to those footprints.

He says these footprints are non-different from Krishna. This is Vrindavan, which is smeared with the, whose land is smeared with the lotus, with the footprint of Krishna. Now the Gopis in their own sweet ways, they are saying, Krishna, you offer those lotus feet to Kaliya.

फणि फणार्पितम् तेपदंभुजम्, phani is the creature who has fangs, who has a hood, it is to say. फणार्पितम्, on his hoods, you offered your lotus feet. Actually, Krishna didn't offer his lotus feet, Krishna danced on him, pounded him into submission.

But the Gopis in their own way saying, they are saying, Krishna, you offered your lotus feet even to the snake. So, why are you not offering those lotus feet to us? Please. In all the Gopi Gita, there are many different meditations, but our Acharyas have analysed, especially Jiva Goswami and Rupa Goswami, they have analysed how each prayer in that is having an unspoken call to Krishna, please come back.

You see, Krishna has departed from the Gopis during the Raas Nila and the Gopis are begging, please come back. So, the Gopis use different forms of reasoning. The Gopis are saying over here, Krishna, you offered your lotus feet even to a creature as sinful as the snake Kaliya, but then why are you not offering those lotus feet to us? Please, O Krishna, come back.

Now here, when they think of the Kaliya Mardan Lila, the Kaliya Dhaman Lila, now to subdue Kaliya, Krishna requires enormous strength and Krishna is dancing expertly and powerfully on his hoods and subduing the demon, the demonic snake. But the same Gopis, now Rupa Goswami explains that each verse in the Gopi Gita is offered by a different Gopi and he actually based on the mood of the verse, Jiva Goswami analyses which verse is sung by which Gopi. But another verse has an entirely different mood.

The Gopis are saying that, Krishna, you are out there in the forest. And, See, the Gopis are saying, Krishna, as you meditate, that you have gone away from us deep into the forest and it's dark all around. The Gopis actually, when Krishna disappears, they run helter-skelter trying to frantically search for Krishna and they go deep into the forest of Vrindavan and they go so deep, Anand Vrindavan Champu explains that it's so dark, the forest is so thick that the Gopis can't even see their hand in front of them.

It's complete dense darkness and then the Gopis feel, even if we search, we will not find Krishna over here. So, then they cannot find Krishna. So, they come back to the banks of Jamuna and they decide to call for Krishna.

See, in the Gopi Gita, the mood is that just by searching we cannot find Krishna. By calling, Krishna reveals himself. So, the Gopis do that.

And in this verse, the Gopis are praying, Krishna, it's so dark, your lotus feet are so tender and in the forest of Raja, there are twigs, there are pebbles, there are thorns and as we think that your lotus feet will be pierced by a thorn, that thought is ripping our hearts apart. Krishna, please come back. Please come back.

Their mood is, Krishna, please come back so that we can serve you, so that we can massage your lotus feet, so that we can worship you, we can offer ourselves to you. So, this is the mood of fervent devotion. So, by meditating on the lotus feet of the Lord, both as object of veneration and as object of service, as object of strength and purification and as tender objects which require protection.

So, at one level, the Gopis know that Krishna's lotus feet are so strong that he can pound Kaliya to submission. But the Gopis out of their love are thinking, oh, these lotus feet, a thorn will pierce them and we can't bear that. So, in this way, meditating on the Lord's lotus feet actually brings great ecstasy to the devotees.

Sukhataram aparam naja tu jane hari charan smaranamrutena tulyam. In the Mukunda Mala Sutra, it is said that there is no happiness greater than the happiness of meditating on the Lord's lotus feet. So, by practicing bhakti, by taking shelter of Krishna, as our hearts become more and more attracted to him, the sweetness of Krishna and his lotus feet will become more and more apparent to us.

Till that time, we understand the greatness of his lotus feet and firmly take shelter of them by cultivating a strong service attitude and then the sweetness will gradually become evident to us. So, I will summarize. I spoke today about two main parts.

First is understanding the personal aspect of the Lord and his lotus feet. So, through imagination, we may conceive of God. So, with our downward-up process, we can use reasoning and through reasoning, we can conceive that there is an unchanging reality, spiritual reality and we can even say that there is a personal aspect to it because there is a controller in this world.

But the nature or the personal attributes of that personal aspect of God, we cannot understand. For that, rational theology is not enough. Revelational theology is required.

If we do not turn towards revelation, then we will take shelter of imagination and through imagination, different people can come up with different ideas based on whatever is culturally popular at that time. So, now because technology is popular, people conceive of God in terms of some high-tech supercomputer. But this is, as Prabhupada says, imagination is only imagination, leads only to further imagination, does not lead to purification or elevation.

So, here the revelation of Krishna lotus feet is given and by meditating on those lotus feet, by meditating on his personal aspects, we understand that he is the complete absolute truth. Brahman is the absolute truth without any potency, just changeless, ceaseless consciousness. Paramatma is absolute truth with material potencies to control the world.

Bhagavan is the absolute truth with material and spiritual potency. God is not just a judge administering this world, he has his own self-existence where he delights in the reciprocation of love with his devotees. And when we take shelter of the lotus feet, that means we are putting ourselves in a humble position of submission.

The understanding of a person's greatness brings submission and understanding of a person's sweetness brings affection. And through the combination of submission and affection, there is transformation that results. So, the Gopi Gita demonstrates both this sweet blend of submission and affection, appreciation of both Krishna's greatness and his sweetness.

His greatness, the greatness of his lotus feet is talked about when they say that Krishna, by bowing down to your lotus feet, sinful desires can be destroyed. By bowing down to your lotus feet, the heart's aspiration can be fulfilled. By bowing down to your lotus feet, even Brahma becomes exalted.

And then they say that Krishna, in their own sweet way, they are saying Krishna, you offer those lotus feet to the cows whom you are following. You offer those lotus feet to Kalia whom you pounded down. Can't you offer those lotus feet to Aso Krishna? So, here they meditate on his greatness, but they also think that these lotus feet, if a thorn pierces them, our heart will be ripped apart.

Krishna, please come back. So, there is no joy for a devotee as much as there is a joy of meditating on the lotus feet of the Lord. So, if that doesn't seem so joyful right now, at least at this stage, we can see them as representing Krishna's greatness and try to cultivate a strong service attitude.

Through that resulting purification, the sweetness of Krishna will become more and more accessible and relishable for us. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.

Any questions or comments? So, are you saying that the Upanishads are more of rational theology and the Vedas and Puranas are revelational theology? Actually, technically speaking, the Puranas are Shruti. So, there also Shruti is considered as revelation and Shruti is considered more of recollection or tradition. So, from the categorical point of view, the Upanishads are also revelation.

But in terms of their content, the mode of analysis is more of reasoning, logic. So, we could say it is something similar to rational theology. Because rather than, it is more of negation, you know, from the observations in the world, from the incidents that happened over here.

How can we infer? But the Upanishads are not simply rational theology, because the founding ground is revelation. So, when it is only rationality, it is like, let us find out what is true. But when there is a rational study of, rational exploration of revelation, then the mood is, okay, this is true, let us understand how it is true.

So, Prabhupada talks about the difference between mental speculation and philosophical speculation. Mental speculation means the truth is up for grabs. Whoever catches it, that is fine.

But philosophical speculation means the truth is here, but let us try to understand how it is true. Yes, definitely. So, meditation by the jnanis is more in the mode of just contemplation, whereas meditation by devotees is in the mode of service.

So, how are we meant to meditate on Krishna, especially at the time of death? Yes, certainly for us, Krishna is not just an object of meditation. He is a person for reciprocation. So, devotee wants to call out to Krishna, wants to have a loving relationship with Krishna.

And in a sense, the Shantaras is actually spiritual perfection from the perspective of the jnanis, because in Chaitanya Charitam, Shantaras is said to be characterized by two things. It is complete detachment from matter and complete attachment to the Lord. You say that is perfection, isn't it? Complete attachment to Lord, complete detachment from matter.

But what comes in Dasya Ras, which takes it above Shantaras is, that in Dasya Ras, there is the mood of service to the Lord. In Shantaras, one feels that the Lord is so great, what can I do for him? He is so great. I can only meditate on him.

But in Dasya Ras, one feels, yes, he is so great, I cannot do anything for him. But still, I want to express my love for him by serving him. In the third canto of Bhagavad Gita, it is said how actually the Gopis, sorry not the Gopis, the Lakshmis in the Goddess of Fortune in Vaikuntha, they clean the palaces, although there is no dust over there to remove.

Because through service, they want to attract the Lord. They want to please the Lord. So, the point here is that, of course, they are in the Madhura Ras, they are not in the Dasya Ras.

But the point is that, there is the desire to serve. So, in the spiritual world, it is said there are Kalpatarus, a desire fulfilling trees. But in no pastime of Krishna do we see Yashodamayi.

Yashodamayi actually cooks for Krishna. She does not say Kalpataru, produce some rasgulla, produce some malai, just offer it to Krishna. She loves to cook for Krishna.

Because in that service, there is the expression of love, there is the intensification of love, there is the reciprocation of love. So, now, the mood of a devotee is that, I will serve Krishna with all that I have. So, if I have some talents, if I have some wealth, if I have some abilities, I will use them in Krishna's service.

And if there is nothing, then also I will serve Krishna through my remembrance. So, for us, at the time of death, usually the body is not functioning so well. So, the mood, the heart is filled with the desire to serve.

At that time, the service is done through recollection. So, it is something similar to the concept of Manas Pooja that is talked about in the Bhakti Ram Ram Chandra, that worship with the mind. It is said that if a devotee cannot serve Krishna practically, because of certain limitations, a devotee wants to offer a beautiful jewel necklace to the Lord.

But because of circumstances, the devotee does not have money, they cannot offer. Then the devotee can offer it in the mind. And the Lord will be pleased even by that.

So, in that sense, if, now of course, Prabhupada writes over there that if one can actually offer a garland, one does not offer and says, I am offering only in the mind. That is not proper. He gives the example of Nanda Maharaj, not Nanda Maharaj, Vasudev.

When he was in the jail, in the prison, he could not give charity after Krishna was born. But after Krishna came and rescued, after he was released, then he offered profuse charity. So, similarly, throughout our life, we try to both remember Krishna internally, but also serve Krishna practically in that mood of service.

And then at the time of death, when we do not have the ability to serve Krishna physically, at that time, we serve him through our recollection. And through that recollection, which is infused with the mood of service, then we will go to the abode of service. If there is recollection, which is primarily permeated with just passive meditation, then we will either go to the Brahmajyoti, Vishwanath Chakradhakur explains in his Bhagavata commentary, that those who are yogis, who meditate on the Lord passively, dhyana, by dhyana, since they often become, like, if they have a personal conception of the absolute, then they will become trees in the spiritual world, where they can continue to eternally meditate.

So, it is not that just meditation on the Lord is bad. It is also good. It will also lead to elevation and even liberation.

But depending on our desire, if we have a desire to serve, then we will be elevated to an abode where we can serve. If we have the inclination of passive meditation, then that is what we will attain in the spiritual world also. Okay.

So, thank you very much. Do we have time? Okay. Yes, sir.

One last, okay. When we chant Krishna's name, it is so great, as you mentioned just now. How do we concentrate, how do we put through our mind all the time on meditating on Krishna, when the mind always wanders very quickly to other things? Yeah.

How do we meditate on Krishna when the mind wanders to different things? Rupa Goswami talks about four kinds of dhyana in the Bhakti Samyama Sindhu, four kinds of meditation, he says. Rupa dhyana, Leela dhyana, Nama dhyana and Seva dhyana. Meditating on the form, meditating on the pastimes, meditating on the name and meditating on the service.

So, for most of us, it is the Seva dhyana that is most easily accessible. When we are trying to serve Krishna, then we may not be directly thinking of Krishna, but the intention is to serve. And gradually, as we keep doing service or rather as our relationship with Krishna develops through service, then the specific activity of service that we are doing, that goes into the background.

And the principle that I am serving Krishna, that comes into the foreground. Vishwa Achyut Thakur gives the example, let us suppose a person who has a family, but that person has to go somewhere else, to a distant place to work for a job. Now, when they go to a new place, their mind is caught, okay, this new place, where is the office, where I am going to stay, how I am going to travel.

Once mind gets caught in logistics initially, but once one gets habituated to staying there, then one is aware of the logistics, but more one is aware of the purpose. I am here because I want to take care of my family, my spouse is there, my children are there, and I am working here to take care of them. So, if that affection is strong and there is habituation to what one is doing, then what one is doing specifically, that is, one is aware of that, we are aware, but that is not in the foreground of our consciousness.

In the foreground is that I am doing this for Krishna, I am doing this for my family. Similarly, for devotees, initially when we are doing services, we are very caught in the external of the service. Okay, if I am sitting on a chair and sitting in front of a group of people and giving class, then okay, how many people are there, are they understanding properly, are they hearing or not, who is the people over there, oh, I am speaking in public, all those awareness is a lot.

But as we keep practicing bhakti, as we keep serving Krishna, then who is there, how they are reciprocating, we are aware of that, but our primary focus is, I am glorifying Krishna, I am serving Krishna. So, Prabhupada, he would be equally enthusiastic when he was speaking about Krishna to say two, three people when he was giving private darshan or whether he is giving a class to hundred or thousand people because his purpose was to glorify Krishna. Naturally, if more people are there, more people, they are reciprocating, then the enthusiasm will be more, that is perfectly fine.

But that is not in the foreground of the awareness. So, for us, seva dhyan is the most practical at this stage. We try to remember Krishna, we do our japa, we do our hearing, but our primary connection with Krishna at our stage is through service.

So, now during the service also we try to remember Krishna, but that remembrance will also come gradually. So, when we are distributing books, when we are cooking prasadam, when we are doing some management, we may not be remembering Krishna at that time. The intention is there, I am doing this for Krishna.

But gradually as we keep doing it, then from the background, Krishna will come to the foreground and that is what happens through purification. So, seva dhyan is the most practical for us at our stage. Thank you.

Thank you very much.