Is Reincarnation for Real – Evaluating the Evidence

[Youth Meeting at Vedic Cultural Center, ISKCON, Pune]

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna. Thank all of you for coming here today evening and I’ll speak on the topic of demystifying reincarnation.
The PowerPoint will come shortly. So, I’ll start with an incident. This is an online question and answer forum, Quora, where I answer questions.
So, I was asked a question about reincarnation. So, this is a boy asked. He says, I’m in love with a girl and I want to marry her but somehow our parents are not agreeing.
So, it’s not working out. So, what can I do by which I can marry her in my next lifetime? So, the idea whenever people get involved in romance, there is the idea of soulmate. Oh, you know, you have your partner for your soul.
So, the concept of reincarnation is sometimes depicted in Bollywood and there it is. The important thing is not the reincarnation. The important thing is the romance.
So, there are many movies in which the hero and the heroine are not able to unite and maybe the hero dies and the heroine commits suicide and in the next lifetime, both of them are reborn in exactly the same forms and they continue on the romance from where they had left in the previous lifetime. So, the concept of reincarnation has been romanticised and sensationalised in this way. So, whenever people ask me about a soulmate, I say it is more important to focus on the soul not on the mate.
Now, when this concept of reincarnation is in this way romanticised, it also becomes intentionally or unintentionally trivialised. Trivialised means that in a movie for the purpose of the plot, so many unbelievable twists and turns are made just so that the story can go on. So, reincarnation becomes a part of the culture, the cultural imagination of people.
But in this sensationalization, trivialisation, romanticisation, the reality of reincarnation, whether it is for real, that is often not considered itself. So, there are cases of reincarnation where some people, Brian Ways is a prominent researcher who does hypnotically induced past life memories and say somebody has got some hydrophobia and then that person is irrationally fearful of water and then in his next lifetime, then he is not able to deal with that fear of water and then Brian Ways and other these people are called as hypnotic regression therapy by which they take a person into previous life and that person remembers, oh in my past life there was an accident in which I drowned, I tried to save myself but I could not save myself and that is why in this life there is great fear of water. Now, in his books, there is, he is a qualified scientist and there are people like him who do things similarly and people do get healed, the hydrophobia goes away but the healing in itself does not prove, you can go to next slide, in itself does not prove the reality of the memory.
Just like there is, so just as in medicine, there is a form of pseudo medication wherein a patient is given sugar pills and the patient thinks that I am being treated, the patient gets treated and he gets healed. So, what is this called? Placebo effect, yes, good. So, now, so just because the patient has been treated does not prove that what was given was actually a medicine.
So, similarly, just because some people by remembering their past lives or remembering what they think is their past life, they get healed, that does not necessarily prove that what they remembered was for real. In hypnosis, people can have, people are very suggestible. So, Dr. Ian Stevenson, when he did his research in reincarnation, he conscientiously refused to go into any hypnotically induced past life memories.
It is very difficult to know for real and even if we come to know for real, okay, this person claims I was that person and I drowned like that and you find out, yes, there was a person who was drowned like that, how do we really know that this person did not get, did not, had not heard about that person somewhere else at some other time and somehow the two memories came together. So, Ian Stevenson focused not on hypnotically induced past life memories but on spontaneous past life memories where there is no prod for anyone else and in many cases, there is a small child and just one day that child starts speaking, mummy, mummy, where is my other mummy? What? Or sometimes the child says that you know, he tells his father, I was big then, I am small now. What do you mean? So, these are just suddenly the children start speaking and although the word we use past life memories, memories is inadequate to describe the entire gamut of the connection of this person with the past life.
So, when we talk about reincarnation, how do we actually know that the reincarnation is for real? If there is reincarnation, there has to be something which reincarnates and how do we know that somebody is remembering the past life or has somehow got it from some other source? So, we will discuss some cases and we will discuss some of the standard objections to the authenticity of these past life memories which sceptics raise and we will see whether those objections apply to these particular cases. So, in my book on demystifying reincarnation, I have almost two dozen of the best, more than a dozen of the best cases and I will take two of them over here and we will scrutinise them to see if any alternative explanation works. So, first of all, what is it that needs to be explained? So, actually there are four things, not just memories.
There are recollections, the child, he or she at her home suddenly starts speaking about some unknown person. Then, after that, there is recognitions. The child is taken to the place where he or she, genetically we can use the word they, where they claim to have had lived in the past and there they recognise, recognise people, recognise places, recognise objects which were connected to previous person’s life and not only these two, they also exhibit behaviours.
So, for example, a child may claim, I was so and so person in this life. So, there was a boy, Titu Sharma, who claimed that I was Suresh Sharma in my previous life and Suresh, he had married and he had died. So, his wife was a widow and now when Titu, this small five-year-old boy, he went to that family in Kanpur, he was in Lucknow and he went to Kanpur.
Now, Uma, who was like a 40-year-old lady, he treated her like she was his wife and Uma’s children, he was, he was small, but he was fond, his children were bigger than him, but he was fondling their hair, caressing them, treating them like a child. So, there are behaviours which correlate with the behaviour that the person from the previous life might have exhibited and then there are birthmarks and birth defects which correlate with the fatal wounds from the previous life. Now, many people have some kind of birthmarks, some people have some black marks on their face, some spots or some kind of, which are, which pass genetically from generation to generation, but these birthmarks and birth defects which these children have are very, very distinctive.
So, for example, so this is a very abnormal birthmark and this is from Ian Stevenson’s book where reincarnation and biology intersect. So, Ian Stevenson, he did research for almost 40 to 60 years on this subject and the last book which he wrote was not just recollections, but also correlation birthmarks. So, where reincarnation and biology intersect, that was the title of his book.
So, this is the birthmark that was there on a child who claimed to be having someone in his previous life who had died because a truck had run over him and the place where the truck had run over his body is the thigh area. So, the truck had knocked him down. So, one leg had been pushed off in the other direction, the truck ran over the thigh.
So, this is not a normal birthmark people get when they are dying. Now, the evidence of the birthmarks is very significant because researchers who study pregnancy and birth, they say that birthmarks can come primarily from two sources. One is genetics, they pass on generation to generation.
The second is during gestation. Now, if while the mother is having the child in the womb, at that time if she gets some disease or she ingests, if she smokes, she drinks or she ingests some substances which get into the alimentary canal and they somehow reach the womb, they may mark themselves in the skin of the child. And even now, with both these explanations, genetics and during gestation, with these there are still a significant, almost 50% of the cases of birthmarks and birth defects, neither of these two factors are there and still the birthmarks and birth defects come.
So, the normal biological explanation does not apply. So, what is the way to explain this? Now, one common objection that sceptics have is that maybe the parents made it all up. Maybe the parents for some reason, they wanted attention, they wanted fame or whatever, they made it all up.
So, because the children themselves, they may imagine, but how will the children elaborately orchestrate a hoax? So, children, parents have to be involved. So, let us look at some cases where the parents did not want any kind of past life connection. So, this is a case of a Muslim to Hindu reincarnation, which happened in North India.
And because there is always communal tension between Hindus and Muslims, so neither family wanted to say that, okay, my child from here has gone over there. So, this is a case of Naresh Kumar Raidas. He was born in Bajnagar, UP.
And from his childhood, so there was another person whom he claimed to be Mushir Ali Shah. He died in Kakori in a cart, he was a vegetable seller. And he would take a cart from Kakori to the nearby city where he would sell vegetables.
And one day a truck hit into him and he died on the spot. So, this Naresh, at the age of two onwards, he would start saying Kakori, Kakori, Kakori was the place where he stayed. And Kakra is the local meaning for the word cart.
So, what had happened when the truck hit him, he was thrown off the cart and then the cart’s side pillar or side pole pierced into his body and killed him. So, hey, cart, cart, he would speak that. And when nobody would be seeing, he would kneel down and he would offer, as if he was offering Namaz.
So, his parents found this very odd. Now, Mushir’s father was Fakir Ali Shah. And Fakir Ali Shah was a Muslim mendicant.
So, he would go from house to house and he would beg alms. So, once a week, he would come to the village of Naresh, that is Bajnagar and he would beg alms. And whenever Naresh would see him, he would call him Abba, Abba.
Now, his mother would tell him, no, call him Baba. You know, sadhus in India are called as Babas. So, call him Baba.
But Muslims, they call their parents as Abba. So, he would call Abba, Abba. And he was a small boy, just two, three years old and just barely walking.
So, when he would go out from house to house, he would run after him. And then this Fakir would just keep moving on, then he would come back. And finally, as he grew up, when he was about three to four years old, as he kept growing up, again and again, this pattern would happen.
And as he would grow up, finally, one day, he told his Fakir, don’t you recognise me? I’m your son, Mushir. He says, what? He just couldn’t accept it. He says, you know, we lived in a house and started describing landmarks of the house.
You know, we had a house like this, we had this, there’s trees near our house and this and that. So, he was puzzled. He just walked away.
Now, Muslims, as per their current understanding of Quran, they don’t believe in reincarnation. So, he did not believe this. But then the next, then he went away.
The next morning, he told his mother that you have to take me to the Fakir’s house. If you don’t take me, I’m going to go alone. Now, usually, Muslims often stay concentrated in one area.
And Hindus usually don’t go to those areas. So, when Naresh’s mother started taking him there, she didn’t know where to go. She had never been in that area.
But Naresh himself took her. I know where to go. And he straight took her to his house.
And there, he recognised Mushir’s mother as Najeeb. I said, you are my mother, you are my Ammi. And he had his brother Naseem.
So, he had three brothers and three sisters when he was there. But there were seven progeny among them. So, he said, who is she? He says, she was in your stomach at that time.
Recognised that sister was Sabiha. And then he, not only that, he recognised the case. He said, this was Mushir’s case.
And he told in advance what all is there in that case. They had a trunk. They are not a very well-to-do family.
In a trunk, they had kept his possessions as memories. And then, in fact, his brother Naseem was sleeping. He says, where is Naseem? They were very close to each other.
They were the closest among the brothers. So, he says, where is Naseem? And he said, no, he is sleeping. So, he just ran to Naseem’s room and woke him up and started hugging him.
And Naseem was in what is a bit sane. You know, who is this Hindu boy coming and hugging me in my house? Just couldn’t figure out. Then there was a neighbour whom this Mushir had lent 300 rupees.
This was several decades ago. 300 was a significant amount at that time. So, he said, his wife was there, and this neighbour’s wife.
He said, you know, I had given 300 rupees to your husband. Did you give this back? So, she was shocked. How does he know this? And she said, yes, he had given it back.
And then, as in Indian culture, you have, if some boy comes to your house when he is going, you give some money to him. So, Fakira and Najeeba, they gave him some rupee and money. He said, what? He said, won’t you give me tea and eggs? Now, he was a vegetarian family in this lifetime.
So, he would not eat eggs. But Mushir, in his previous life, loved eggs. So, then his mother was a little perplexed.
But then he took eggs, ate them with gusto. And when he was going, then we saw that, you know, in his nearest chest, there was small depression. And as Najeeb’s mother told, that he has the depression in the chest area since his birth.
And that correlated with the point in Mushir’s body, where the card’s bone had penetrated his chest. So, now in this particular case, neither parent wanted to have any connection. In fact, Antonia Mills is the researcher who investigated these cases of inter-religious reincarnation.
And she said that, she writes in a journal of scientific exploration issue, that whenever such cases would come up, she faced big opposition in investigating those cases. The opposition came primarily from the Muslim side. They did not want this investigated at all.
And in fact, if a Muslim child claimed to be a reincarnation of someone, the parents would actually get some kind of black magic person to try to, they think some ghost has possessed him. And they would try to have that person, that tantric person or whatever, do something. Sometimes they would put the child on a wheel.
And they would get the wheel to move round and round anticlockwise. So, they think that your ears have got disturbed. So, undisturb the ears.
So, basically, the parents would do a lot of things to try to deny the child’s memories. And in spite of all this, when the child would insist, only then they would investigate. And now, because Antonia Mills writes that, because this Fakir was considered to be some kind of religious person, he was a respected member of that community.
So, he told that, when that day, this Mushir told me that, I am your son. Naresh told me, I am your son Mushir. He said, I just could not understand it.
But then I came back. He said, that whole night, I was praying to Allah. What is this mystery, Allah? Please reveal it to me.
And the next morning, when Naresh came and recognised all these things, recognised people, recognised places, remembered events, he said, then I saw that Allah had answered my question. He said, I believe now that Mushir is reincarnated in Naresh. Now, when they asked his sister, she acknowledged the evidence.
But she said, we do not accept reincarnation. So, the point here is that, the parents had no inclination to even support a case, what to speak of fabricate everything. But it was, because the evidence was so strong that they accepted it.
So, this is a case where the parents were opposed. Let us look at another case of multiple birthmarks. This is the case of Naseem Ulluthas Kiran.
He was born in Adana, Turkey. And he was born with multiple birthmarks. So, when he was, from the age when he was 3, 4, 5, he started speaking very strongly that, my name is Naseem.
He said, yes, your name is Naseem. He said, no, no, my name is Naseem Ulluthas Kiran. His parents said, no, your name is Naseem Ulluthas Kiran.
Then, because his name in his previous life was the same. Naseem is a common name in Turkey. So, for his parents, to understand that he was talking of a previous life took some time.
They did not get it. But then, he said that, I live, I lived in a place called Mersin. It is about 80 kilometres away.
And he said, I am married, I have a wife, I have children, and I want to see them. This is a 5, 6-year-old boy saying this. So, then, his parents did not pay any attention, because as per their religion, they did not accept this.
So, finally, he had gone, his mother had taken him to meet his grandfather. And his grandfather had recently got remarried. And his, this new wife, she was from Mersin.
So, Naseem Ulluthas Kiran, he immediately recognised her. He says, you are so and so. She says, how do you know me? He says, we have not met.
He says, no. He says, I was Naseem Ulluthas Kiran. And he started speaking things.
And when he started speaking things about this person, he said, oh, I knew that person. And that intrigued his grandfather. And his wife, new wife, he said, you know, we have to investigate this.
She was Kiran. And to satisfy his new wife, his grandfather took him there. So, the point I am making is, it was a lot of resistance.
And because of circumstance, somehow, he went there. Now, when he went there, he strayed, he had never been to Mersin, but he straight took them to the house. And there, Naseer Budhak’s widow was staying there.
He recognised her. And he has children, he recognised all of them by name. And he told several incidents from their life, which nobody could have known.
This Naseer Budhak was a short tempered person. And one time, he had got into a big quarrel with his wife. And in that quarrel, he took out his knife and tried to kill his wife.
And she just moved aside. And then the knife had scarred her on her thigh. So, he said that because of that fight, she has got a scar on her thigh.
Now, for some unknown boy to know some body mark on a private part of a body of a woman whom he has never seen, there is no way he could have known this. So, Stevenson, who did his investigation, he had a female assistant. So, he took this female assistant took Naseer Budhak’s wife to a private room and he examined, she examined, found she had a mark on her thigh, inner thigh.
And he said that, yeah, Naseer Budhak had attacked me with a knife at that time. So, this is knowledge that just is too private for anyone to know. And most significantly, another thing was that, again, he was very affectionate to his children, not his children in this life, but from his previous life.
Now, Naseer Budhak’s widow, she had got remarried. So, now when Naseer saw the photo of this husband and wife together, he was so angry, he took that frame and wanted to break it. He said, you are my wife, not anyone else’s wife.
So, it was, if you see in this case, there are recollections, there are recognitions, there are behaviours. Recollections also of not just some guessable facts, some very specific facts which are not so at all easy to guess. And for a child to to simulate emotions like this, emotions of jealousy towards some unknown lady, that is a very, very difficult to simulate.
And most significantly, there were not just one or two, but six correlating birth marks. So, this Naseer Budhak, as I said, he was a very short tempered person. And once he had gone to a bar and then he had got into a quarrel with some other person.
And that person had also been drunk. And that person got angry, took out his knife and started stabbing him. And there have been multiple stabs and Naseer Budhak had died because of those knife attacks.
So, now, Naseer Ullu Tashkiran, when he would speak about his past life, he would say that I was stabbed. And then he would point to the marks on his body. And he would say that these were the places where I was stabbed.
So, now, Ian Stevenson and scientists after him decided to do some investigation to check how precise was the correlation of the birth marks and birth defects. So, he divided the human body into 160 x, y coordinates. And then, okay, then he tried to find out where exactly was the fatal wound in the previous life and where is the birth mark.
And he found in this 160 coordinate system, there were 6 correlating birth marks. So, one correlating birth mark, the probability is 1 by 160. But if 6 are there, the probability becomes 1 by 160 raised to the power of 6. It is an astronomically low probability.
So, this case is one of the strongest evidences for past life memories and reincarnation, which resists all other explanations. So, what other explanation can be there? Maybe the child heard somewhere and imagined it. Maybe the child guessed it.
But how can you imagine or guess something this specific? And even if you imagine and guess, how can you replicate birth marks so precise? The most common explanation that people give is parental fraud, that parents orchestrated the whole thing. But actually, there are strong reasons against this also. First of all, Stevenson followed a policy that he would not pay any of the people who investigated the case.
Because if he is going to pay, then people may just exaggerate to get more attention and get more payment. So, he said, we will not pay anyone. So, now many of the people who claim to have their child remembering a previous life, these parents were from lower class families in India, in Turkey, in Libya, Syria, and other places, Sri Lanka.
Now, for them, if you actually Stevenson has got a hold on his website and other places, they have given the kind of questions they ask. The grilling goes on for hours and hours. And for them, leave alone getting money, often they have to give up their work for one or two days while the grilling goes on.
So, there is no monetary incentive for them. Secondly, no, you might just become famous, if your child remembers the past life. Actually, for most of these parents, they already believed in reincarnation.
And they lived in a society where they believed in reincarnation, if you consider India, Sri Lanka or other places. And there is no fame in saying that my child was a reincarnation of someone. Because everybody’s child is a reincarnation of someone.
What is the big deal? So, there was no fame to be had in that. And there are some cases where people claim to be reincarnation of celebrities. So, Marilyn Monroe was a, whatever you want to say, she was a famous person from the West.
And there are at least six girls who claim to be reincarnation of Marilyn Monroe. They want fame from there. So, in general, Stevenson never investigated celebrity reincarnation cases.
So, there is an obvious motive for fame over there. There are some other researchers who have become quite famous. They say, oh, Amitabh Bachchan was so and so in his lifetime.
And he was so and so and she was so and so. And they are not very scientifically sound cases. But the point is that, so there is no fame to be got.
In fact, quite to the opposite, if we see, if in a Muslim family, somebody claims to be that my child is reincarnated, that actually it is so inferior. You know, you are a heretic. You are believing something which our religion does not believe.
So, there is no religious motive. What about the parents believe in reincarnation? They may want to have their belief proven. Is that a religious motive? As I said, most parents do not care to prove their belief, they accept it.
Those who actually are there in their case. And there is a deterrent also. In many traditional Indian families, it is believed that, it is a superstition, but it is believed that if a child remembers a previous life, then he or she will die soon.
Why? Because their idea is that the soul is not well integrated into this body. Because the soul is remembering what has happened in the previous life in this life, that means the soul is not integrated in this body. And if the soul is not well integrated in this body, then the soul will become disintegrated from this body soon and will go to another life.
So, that is why the parents discourage their children from speaking about past life memories, even if the parents believe in reincarnation. And there are several cases where the children behave in embarrassing ways. So, for example, there was one boy, he was born in a Jat family, and in North India, and he said, he is around three years old, and he said that, you know, I am a Brahmin, I don’t eat this contaminated food cooked over here.
He refused to cook the food, to eat the food cooked by his own mother, his own family. And he was so insistent that for several months, his father actually had to pay a Brahmin to make three meals for his son and get the food to his house. And this child was ready to start, he said, I will die, but I will not eat the food.
So, now, what parent can actually do something like this? Who would want to embarrass themselves? And especially if you are living in a village, everybody comes to know what everybody else is doing. So, if a father says, you know, mera beta mere ghar mein hi khata nahi hai, it’s a disgrace. So, often the behaviour of the children, it’s connected in the past lives, would lead to embarrassment for their parents.
The parents would want to actually deny the memories or suppress the memories, not create them or concoct them. Now, going further, could there be fraud? So, Tom Schroeder was an editor of the Washington Post. And when he heard about these cases, he was a sceptic.
So, he decided that I will personally travel with Stevenson. And I will observe his methods. And I will try to find out, how can these children remember like this? I will try to find flaws in his methods.
So, he travelled for more than a year, going to everywhere that Stevenson went. And he wrote a book called Old Souls, the case for life before death or case of reincarnation. So, now, in that book, so he writes that neither self delusion intentional for peer pressure nor coincidence could explain how the children Ian investigated could have known all that they knew about strangers who had died before they were born.
So, basically, there is no other explanation. So, as I mentioned, the fraud, there is no counter motive, because this is Jasbir Singh was the boy who I said, who claimed that I am a Brahmin, I cannot eat in your house. So, there is no motive.
In fact, there is a motive for even if there is a memory to avoid it, not to create it. So, now, what is the logical explanation for this? So, if you consider these two people, they are like non intersecting sets. And the only intersection, there is no intersection of the material.
The only intersection is at a spiritual level. That is, there is something non material which goes from one body to another body. And that is and that non material thing has memories.
And that is how the person is able to remember. So, now, there are strong evidences for the reality of reincarnation of past life from past life memories. Now, going back to the question, you know, how can I marry her in my next life? So, basically, what happens over here is that reincarnation is pointing to not just the eternality of the soul.
That is true. The romanticisation of reincarnation points to something more. It points to our longing for eternal love.
On one side, we want to be ourselves, if we are soul, that means we live beyond this life. So, we all want to live forever. And we all want to love forever.
Most of the movies, most of the novels, they are about romance. And most romantic novels and movies, they end with H-E-A, happily ever after. So, now, where does this longing to live forever and to love forever come from? Suppose, there is an African child who has lived in a tribe throughout his life, no connection with the rest of the world.
And one day, this child says to his mother, mummy, mummy, I want a pizza. Mother will say, where did you hear about a pizza? There is nothing in the circumstance of that child which would make that child know about a pizza. But similarly, if we look at the world around us, nothing is permanent.
Now, there are big, big buildings, they may appear to be permanent, but nothing is. When the Twin Towers fell in the terrorist attacks, when I go to New York, we often pass by that area. So, when the Twin Towers fell, actually, what happened was, it was not just the falling structure, it was what it represented.
It represented the American dream of prosperity and security. And that fall of the Twin Towers became a permanent scar on the American psyche. Why? Because, you know, we look at things which last forever and we get some security from there.
So, big, imposing buildings, they seem to give us a sense of security. But actually, nothing lasts forever. So, there is nothing in our environment which lasts forever.
So, if we were simply material creatures, and there is nothing material that lasts forever, then where would we even get the desire to live forever? So, our desire to live forever does not come from our circumstance. It comes from our core. The core is the soul.
And that soul is a part of the whole. So, the Bhagavad Gita explains that not only are we souls, but we are souls who are parts of the Supreme. And the part is meant to be attracted to the whole.
But when the soul is in the material body, based on the body, the soul gets attracted to other parts. And no other part can satisfy the soul’s longing for eternal life. In all species, there is bonding that happens between males and females, between parents and progeny.
And that is a natural biological function which is required for survival and procreation and continuation of the species. But it all ends in death. The romantic novels say, happily ever after.
The Bhagavad Gita says, exact opposite. Happily, ever after. So, now, actually speaking, if this is the reality, then why do we have this longing? Because it comes from the core.
So, the parts are attracted to the other parts in this world. But these relationships are temporary. The purpose, the destiny of the soul is to become attracted to the whole.
So, we are souls who are on a multi-life journey of spiritual evolution. And what is it that evolves? What evolves is our consciousness. We grow in wisdom and we grow in love.
Growing love means we grow in our understanding of what is the best object of love. So, in the human form, we have the consciousness which can be developed enough to direct our love towards the Supreme. So, by destiny, by karma, by circumstances, sometimes the relationship between one part and another part may work, sometimes it may not work.
But whatever it is that attracts us to some other person. Now, that person’s attractiveness also comes from Krishna. Everybody’s attractiveness comes from Krishna.
But they manifest a spark of Krishna’s attractiveness. Whereas Krishna is the whole. So, in connecting with the spark, we may get some satisfaction, some joy.
But in connecting with the whole, we will get that and much, much more. And not only more in quantity, but much more in duration. If we connect with Krishna, that will last with us forever.
So, yes, if some relationships work out in this life, that’s fine. But if they don’t work out, we don’t have to obsess over them. We need to recognise that whatever I am looking for through this relationship, I will get all that and more through developing my relationship with Krishna.
So, Bhakti Yoga is the process by which we develop our relationship with Krishna. And the process of reincarnation is not eternal. The soul is eternal, but the soul is not meant to reincarnate eternally.
The process of reincarnation can be transcended or its purpose can be fulfilled through Bhakti Yoga. So, we go through many, many lifetimes looking for different objects of love, different forms of enjoyment. But if we come to Krishna, and if we connect with Krishna through the practise of Bhakti, then our multi-lifetime journey of spiritual evolution attains its culmination.
And then we don’t have to come back. So, for us as spiritual sadhakas, we can strengthen our intellectual conviction that the soul is for real, reincarnation is for real. And when I am practising Bhakti, this is not just some belief system that may be true, may not be true.
This is the ultimate purpose of life. And I have such an opportunity now to fulfil that purpose. So, if we consider material existence to be like a marathon, human life is like the last lap of the marathon.
But especially in the human life, if we get to know about the soul, if we get to know about Krishna, if we get to know about the process by which we can practise Bhakti and connect with Krishna, then that is an even greater privilege. It is a very, very great fortune. Prabhupada writes in one, like purport that, you know, to get the opportunity to practise Krishna Bhakti is fortune.
To take the opportunity is intelligence. So, we have somehow got that fortune. Now, by studying the philosophy, we can strengthen our intellectual conviction so that we can practise Bhakti wholeheartedly and thus fulfil the purpose of reincarnation, fulfil the purpose of our multi-lifetime spiritual evolution and attain eternal ecstatic reunion with Krishna.
So, I will summarise what I spoke today. So, I spoke about the reincarnation and its reality, its evidence. So, I talked about how reincarnation has been romanticised by the idea of a soulmate.
But this shifts the focus from the soul to the mate and that distracts people. They just, they perpetuate their own romantic fantasies and they do not understand the reality, real truths of life. So, similarly, even in the scientific investigation of reincarnation, there can be non-serious lines of investigation.
Say, for example, past life hypnotic regression, that may or may not be true. So, even if people are healed, healing is good, but that can be because of like a placebo effect through hypnotic regression. So, what are the really scientifically defensible cases where there is spontaneous past life memories? And it is what, there are four symptoms associated with the past life memories.
What are they? Does anyone remember? Recollections, recognitions, behaviours and birth marks and birth defects. Thank you. And then I discussed two cases.
One was of Naresh Kumar Raidas, who was Mushir Ali Raidan. So, here we discussed that there was a reconnection, there was very strong recollection, recognition and behaviour was also there. And birthmark, there is a minor birthmark over there.
But significant was that the parents did not want this, and he went against it and he insisted. In the second case was of Naseeb Ullu Tashkiran. In this case also all three were there, but most important, there are six correlating birthmarks.
So, the probability is very low. And birthmarks take the whole study of reincarnation from the level of memory and behaviour, which is a little suspect, to tangible, measurable, photographical biology. So, it takes it to a whole new level of authenticity.
And even if there is a fraud, how can you replicate birthmarks? You know, the marks happened before the parents had any control of the child. The parents cannot go in the mother’s womb and create a mark over there. So, then we discussed could it be another, other reasons why it could not be a parental fraud? There is no monetary incentive, there is no fame, the celebrity cases are not investigated.
There is no religious motive, because often either the religions disapprove of it, or the religions approve that there is a superstition that the child may die soon. So, either way, there is no religious motive. And sometimes the child parental behaviour even embarrassing wins for the parents, like in Jasbir Singh’s case.
So, there is no reasonable alternative explanation except that there is a soul which goes from one body to another. And then I discussed about what does this imply for us, that why do we long for relation, we just don’t long for life, which is lasting, we long for love and relationship that are lasting. So, the soul’s longing for lasting love and lasting life, that points, our longing points to something non-material within us.
Because materially, there is nothing which lasts forever, just like an African child who has never heard of a pizza, getting a desire for a pizza. So, we may be attracted to other parts, and we may form relationships, which is fine in this lifetime. But actually, the soul longs for the eternal love of Krishna.
And whatever attractiveness is there in other parts, that is a spark of Krishna’s attractiveness. So, if the relationship in this world work out, fine. But if they don’t, whatever satisfaction we might have got through those relationships, we will get all that and more through developing our relationship with Krishna.
And for the soul who has come to the human form, there is the intelligence to understand that I can develop a relationship with the eternal Lord. And if the opportunity is there, that’s a great fortune. And by understanding the reality of reincarnation, we can boost our intellectual conviction to practise bhakti and thus take our spiritual evolution to its culmination in eternal love for Krishna.
Thank you very much. Are there any questions or comments? Yes, please. Is this your question? Some people offer a challenge, saying that there are 7 billion people on the planet, and these places are hardly there.
So, that’s like, how do we explain that? There are not so many cases of reincarnation. And the second aspect of the question is, why I don’t remember my past? Okay, good question. So, among the millions of people on the planet, why do so few people remember their past lives? Basically, for the soul, when it goes from one lifetime to another, it’s a new opportunity, a new beginning.
And most of our memories are associated with our body and bodily situation. Even this lifetime, if we had a childhood, we had gone somewhere. We may not remember much now, but if we go there, we will remember more.
So, because for most of us, when the soul goes from one body to another body, there is a drastic change in the bodily situation. So, most of the memories which are associated with our situation, they are no longer there. They just get wiped out.
And basically, for the soul, the death and rebirth are traumatic events. So, the trauma is naturally our human psyche. There are traumatic events we remember sometimes, but afterwards we tend to forget it, because the trauma will just make us incapable of functioning properly.
Thirdly, the important thing is that actually, for the soul, if we started having memories of our past life, well, how many past lives? You know, I see someone and I start remembering, oh, you know, this, like this, this, this. We would start living in a perpetual flashback mode. Because we have gone through so many lifetimes, how many lifetimes will we remember? It is just, it will impede our functioning in this lifetime.
The purpose of the soul in this world is, when it gets a new body, is to fulfil whatever desires it has associated with that particular body. And then, to move on, so either the soul fulfils those desires and realises the futility, or the soul gets some spiritual knowledge and then moves on. So, you know, we have a particular body for fulfilling particular desires.
And if we are living in a flashback continuously, we won’t be able to fulfil the purpose of spiritual emotion. One more point is, if we, why can’t we remember our past lives? Yeah, because that’s not the nature in which nature works. Now, I did some further study, this is not in Stevenson’s book.
I googled and I tried to, I spent almost 10 years on this book. So, I tried to contact some of these children who remembered their past lives, or contacted those researchers who had contacted them. So, what I tried to investigate was, did the past life memories of these children change them in this life? Apart from wanting them to connect with their previous life, did it in any way make them more spiritual? Not one in all the cases.
Not one. Yes, I was so and so, and I’m a soul, but they just lived on in this lifetime. In fact, one of the makers of the Titanic was a person named William Barnes.
No, Thomas Andrews. And Thomas Andrews sank on the Titanic. He was one of the designers.
So, then another person was William Barnes, who claimed to be reincarnated as Thomas Andrews. And then he gave the most reasonable, one of the most reasonable explanations for why the Titanic sank so fast. He said, as Thomas Andrews, before the Titanic went off, he said, I was investigating, and with a hammer I hit its hull.
So, it had a metallic hull, most of it. So, that’s why they said that this is a ship which even God can’t sink. Because wood can be broken, but metal is not so easy to break.
But he said, when I hammered it, boom, it created a resonance. And I told Black, who was the financer, that, you know, we need to thicken this hull, otherwise resonance can cause tremendous damage. So, he said, no, no, we have already scheduled it, we have spent money, we can’t get more money.
So, he pushed aside my objections. And then, when the ship sank, Black escaped, and Black blamed Andrews, that he designed it, he syphoned off the money for the designing, and he designed it faulty, that’s why the ship sank. But what William Barnes’ explanation was that, when the ship collided, that set off a resonance, and that’s why the hull was not just at one point, it cracked at multiple places.
And that’s why it sank before any rescue efforts could come to help it. So, it is a very reasonable explanation for how or why the Titanic sank. And William Barnes is convinced, many other people are convinced.
But the key thing for us is that William Barnes says, the mission of my life is to clear the good name of Thomas Andrews. It is not, oh, I am the soul, I have worked for a lifetime, what is my ultimate destination? No. So, remembering the past lives does not correlate in any way, necessarily, with becoming spiritually serious.
So, even if I know I am the soul, that does not necessarily change my desires. It is only when I get a spiritual knowledge of a holistic worldview, and especially when I get spiritual association. In the Shastra, there are some cases of, say, Bharat Maharaj, Jadbharat remembers his previous life.
But then he was already spiritually minded. And that’s why that recollection helped him to become more serious in his spiritual life. So, for us to become more spiritually serious, remembrances of past lives may not help.
And in most cases, people who remember, they don’t, they don’t, it doesn’t really make them spiritually serious. So, now, why do some people remember? If everyone doesn’t remember, everyone doesn’t, most people don’t remember, because it’s not necessary for the spiritual evolution. In fact, it will obstruct the spiritual evolution of the soul to be in a flashback mode.
But then why do some people remember? That is primarily because most of the cases in which people remember their past lives spontaneously is of sudden death. So, when the death happens very suddenly, through some accident or through some murderous attack or whatever, then the soul leaves the body so rapidly, so suddenly the soul does not get time to process the event of death. And because it does not process the event of death well, that’s why when the soul goes from one body to another body, you could say the soul has a memory jet lag.
Those of you, if you travel internationally, if you come from America to India, then when it is night in America, it is day in India. So, people who come back to India, they just can’t sleep because the body is functioning like a clock in America. So, similarly, the soul is still, the soul has been relocated in a new body, but the soul has not processed the event that I have left my previous body.
And that’s why those memories keep coming. And usually, these memories come till the age of 3, 4, 5, 6. And after that, if there is some interaction that happens, and there is some interaction, that’s the end of it. Most of these people, by the age of 15, 20, the emotional intensity in those memories is not there.
So, the soul gets integrated into this body. So, in some cases, because the event of death has not been processed properly, some children may remember. Or some people may have some peculiar karma.
It’s like in our own life also, we see that different people have different levels of memories. Some people can remember what they did in their childhood at 10, 11. Some people can’t remember what they did 3, 4 days ago.
So, this we understand, this variety in memory is because of the kind of karma that we may have done in previous lives. So, therefore, based on some peculiar karma, it may not necessarily be good karma. It can be bad karma also, because of which people may remember their past lives.
Because for the children who go through it, for us to hear it, it is entertaining. Oh, somebody remembers his past life and this happened and that happened. It’s a good story.
But for those who are going through it, it’s often very disorienting. It’s like a split personality. They have the question, who am I? Not in the philosophical sense, but in the emotional sense.
You know, am I this person, this parent’s child or this parent’s child? Who am I? So, it’s not a very pleasant experience always for those who go through it. So, some peculiar karma, because of which some people may remember their past lives. So, this Mushir ate fish.
So, he broke a regulatory principle and Naseeb also molested his wife. So, how could they get a human form despite doing these things in the next life? So, we have to understand that the body that we get in the next life is not determined only by what one has done in one’s previous life. It could be determined even by what one has done in several previous lives.
Our destination is determined by what we remember at the time of death. But what one remembers, it’s not necessary that a person who is a human being, it’s not necessary that person will remember some animal at the time of death. So, based on that, we can’t just say that because somebody broke a regulatory principle, they can’t get a human body.
Now, regulatory principles, even in Vedic culture, there are people who would eat meat. In Vedic culture, Prabhupada writes in a purport that Ramati Dev was a Kshatriya, but despite being a Kshatriya, he didn’t eat meat. That means, most Kshatriyas would eat meat.
So, regulatory principles are dramanical standard of living. And they help us very well in spiritual advancement. But it is not that when we say somebody eats meat, that person will get an animal body.
See, there are certain examples which are given for particular purposes to convey the law of karma in a graphic way. But you know, when somebody eats meat, what does it mean? If you just touch meat once, are you going to get an animal body? Is a person who eats meat once and a person who has been eating meat throughout their life, are they at the same karmic level? No, not necessary. So, we cannot take these examples literally and say that everybody who eats meat is going to get animal body.
We understand that there are karmic consequences and this is one possible way in which the karmic consequence may come. But karma works in very complicated ways. So, it’s not just the action in this lifetime and it’s not just one kind of action in one lifetime, but it’s all that one has done in one’s previous lifetimes, not lifetime, lifetimes, that determines one’s future destination.
Yeah. Any other questions? Yes, sir. If you can speak, I will repeat.
So, what is the, how do we explain in case of child prodigies? Yeah, why would we explain? In case of child prodigies, we just need to read the question because they are the children who had, you know, who are extraordinarily mathematical. Yeah, correct. Yeah, I understand.
So, but these are material parameters connected to the gross and second body. Ok. How do we, how do we, to define it? How do we represent the next body? Yeah, right.
Good question. So, how do we explain child prodigies if they are good at mathematics or painting or whatever? And these are connected with the material body. Actually, child prodigies is one of the strong cases which point to the inadequacy of material explanation of personal attributes.
So, for example, if you consider Mozart, a very great musician in the Western tradition. Now, if you see, none of his close relatives, his father, sister, brother, grandfather, grandmother, from either side, none of them had any special musical talent. And he has extraordinary musical talent.
So, normally, the biological understanding is that through genetics, attributes are passed on. And he was not somebody who got, he, he, of course, trained and practised music, but he had tremendous inborn talent. So, in many cases, when children have prodigious talents, which their parents or their, their ancestry does not have, then that raises the question, where does this come from? So, this point of inadequacy of biological explanations for behaviour of people, for characteristics of people.
Now, when the soul goes from one body to another, soul does not go alone. Soul goes with the subtle body. And through the subtle body, there are, I, in the morning in the class, I explained how our instincts, our talents, they are not just stored, they are not just in the sensory organs.
Somebody sings nicely, it is not just that their throat is good. In the subtle body also, there is an ability that is there. So, if a soul has developed a particular interest or a particular ability or a particular inclination in a previous life, then that soul naturally carries that on in its subtle body, because the subtle body goes from one lifetime to another.
So, the abilities that we have developed in the previous life, they carry on with us. And we also understand that that person has done some good karma by which they are meant to have these abilities in this lifetime. So, both the, the, so some child prodigies, when they have extraordinary abilities, which cannot be genetically explained, then we understand that it could be from cultivation from a previous life, or it could be the gift of karma, some good karma which they have done in their previous lives.
Now, how does it pass through? Although it is related to the body, but it is not related to the gross body, it is related to the subtle body. And subtle body continues from one lifetime to another. Does it answer your question? Thank you.
Any other questions? Yes, Pramod. Yeah. Oh, okay.
He was? So, somebody who is a very virile masculine person, like a bodybuilder starts speaking like a woman, or somebody who has died, seems to have come back and possess someone’s body. So, is this reincarnation or what is it? No, it is not reincarnation, it is possession. Actually, an appendix in this book on reincarnation is ghosts.
You know, what are ghosts exactly? I have a whole PowerPoint presentation on ghosts. So, basically, ghosts are disembodied beings. There is the soul, the subtle body and the gross body.
So, the subtle body, when a person, because of some karma, does not get a gross body. So, the soul and the subtle body, when they are wandering together, they are called as ghosts. Now, sometimes these ghosts may possess someone.
So, that means, this is a person here, this person has his own soul and gross body. But because of some weakness, some karma, some situation, the ghosts, they act on subtle level and they have a lot of power in the mode of ignorance. So, if somebody is living ignorantly, the ghost can possess the person.
And when the ghost possesses, what happens? Basically, the ghost takes over the body. So, when the ghost takes over the body, that means that original soul is there, but that soul has become dormant. And through that body, the ghost is acting.
There is a case, there was a case in Nagpur. So, Dr. Jan Stevenson has investigated this also. And there are many cases of possession.
So, there was a woman in a village near Nagpur. And all her neighbours were Marathi. Maharashtrians, Maharashtrians, all her neighbours were Marathi.
And one day, she suddenly started speaking Bengali. And fluid Bengali. Not only that, if somebody spoke in Marathi, she wouldn’t understand.
And not only that, her tone also changed. So, there are many well-researched cases of possession in mainstream science also. So, this possession, basically what is happening is, it’s not reincarnation.
The soul has not got a new body. The soul has simply occupied a new body for some time. So, now, it depends on both the power of the occupying soul and the karma of the occupied soul.
So, how long that occupation, that possession will last. So, what happens after the possession gets over, so the soul may have a particular mission to fulfil. So, there was one Mataji, they were going for a Mayapur Yatra.
And suddenly, this Mataji started speaking like a male. You know, and the other neighbours said that some ghost has possessed or something like that. And they tried to chant mantras and tried to get that ghost.
And this ghost said, I want to go to Mayapur. As soon as I get to Mayapur, I will leave her body. So, he was a devotee ghost.
And that’s what exactly happened. He got to Mayapur. And then, that ghost left and this she just didn’t know what had happened.
So, basically, sometimes the ghost may want to do something. And it does it through, occupies a particular body and does it through that body. So, this is possession, not reincarnation.
Yes. How can a devotee become a ghost? So, how karma works varies from person to person. You have to understand that when we practise bhakti, the spiritual consciousness is never lost.
There is the principle of bhakti and there is the principle of material nature. Now, it is not that the principle of bhakti denies or rejects the principle of material nature. Both work together.
We see in the Bhagavatam, there is a story of Bharat Maharaj. Bharat Maharaj was a very advanced devotee, just before prema. But then, he got a deer’s body.
How is that? Because he became attached to a deer, he thought of a deer. So, at a material level, the law of last thought, whatever you think of, sadatak bhava bhavita, that applied. He got a deer’s body.
But at a spiritual level, he did not get a deer’s consciousness. His consciousness was still not just human, but spiritual. And even as a deer, he was staying near sages and hearing Vedic mantras and he was pursuing the path of spiritual growth.
And eventually, he got a human body. So, Janananda Maharaj is one of our leaders and he has written a book called Animals in Krishna Consciousness. And he has given many cases of different temples all over the world, where there were animals who, you know, behaved, who exhibited devotional characteristics.
There is a temple in Kerala, where there is a crocodile who eats, crocodile stays in a lake outside of Vishnu temple. And the crocodile takes only the rice that is offered to the deities. And the crocodile is vegetarian.
And many pilgrims come to the temple, not to see the deities, but to see the crocodile. So, sometimes, if a devotee, because of whatever frustration or whatever, commits suicide or something like that, then the devotee may not get a gross body. The devotee may become a ghost.
So, at a material level, if you do actions, the reactions may come. But at a spiritual level, the consciousness will not give it. That is why, even if one becomes like a ghost, still one has the devotional longings.
And so, the material actions will produce material reactions. But the spiritual inclination will not be thwarted. That can continue on even through that.
So, if we like fiction, and we attach to that, what will that result in the next life? So, I would say that it is not just liking fiction. It is what we prominently remember in what is the strongest attachment that we have. So, we may have different attractions.
Even in the Indian tradition also, there are so many, there are fictions also which have been written. So, imagination is a basic human faculty. And to exercise it is natural.
Even when we do we do Krishna Leela drama. Now, it is not that every single dialogue that we speak in that drama, it is from Shastra. You know, we use our imagination.
We are using our imagination in Krishna’s service. So, even in fiction, there can be sattvic, rajasic and tamasic. So, there can be goodness, impassion and ignorance.
So, what kind of fiction we are remembering, that will affect. So, some of us may have more of that artistic, fictional kind of attraction. Some of us may have less.
So, ideally what should happen is, that as our devotee movement grows, devotees should be writing devotional fiction. Not necessarily, not all about Krishna Bhakti, but fiction which is at least sattvic. And then Christians have got a huge genre of Christian fiction.
Most of it is of course romance, like in all Christian fiction. But then it is romance among Christians who believe in the Bible and when they have problems, they pray to God and things like that. So, as our Hindu fiction is there, but not that much right now.
So, gradually as the Bhakti movement spreads, then it will also incorporate fiction in its genre. So, if we have the tendency, we can try to see and if we cannot give it up, then we can try to see if we can read some sattvic fiction. And that is just a need if we have, we address it.
But if we are practising Bhakti seriously, if Krishna becomes our strongest attachment, then even if he has some other attachment, that does not matter. But if instead of Krishna being our strongest attachment, if say Harry Potter or this or that or Superman or Batman or Wonder Woman or whatever, they are our strongest attachment, then that will become a problem. So, we focus on practising Bhakti and trying to make Krishna our strongest attachment.
And if we have that imaginative need for exercising imagination, then we can address that in as sattvic a way as possible. Can people remember their past lives, past non-human lives? Usually not, because the extent of transformation is huge. A hog is attracted to human excreta.
A human being is repelled by it. So, now for the same thing from attraction to repulsion, and it is a huge cognitive difference. So, for that kind of change to happen, there is almost a total wiping out of the memory when the memory is transferred from one species to another.
That is why there are no documented cases of people remembering their non-human past lives. How are past life birthmarks transported to this life’s body? Yes, this happens through impressions in the subtle body. So, Ian Stevenson has written a paper on this and Dr. Karmaprabhu, Dr. Michael Cremo is a devotee scientist.
In his book Human Development, he has a whole chapter called Paranormal Modification of Biological Form. So, paranormal modification means that normally if I put my hand in fire, my hand may get burnt. But there are cases where people if they think a lot about something.
So, for example, there are some Christian mystics or Christian seekers, they think a lot about the passion of Jesus. That means, you know, how Jesus sacrificed, he died for us, how he was crucified. And then because of that, the marks which are there on Jesus’ body appear on their body.
Not the holes when he was crucified, but just some stars or wounds or some swellings appear over there. And this has been documented many times. And often in Christian circles, that is a sign of very elevated devotion to Jesus.
Now, of course, some people doctor those marks and try to pretend I am very devoted to Jesus. That always happens in every religion. Some people try to impersonate.
But the point is that there is adequate evidence that if one thinks very deeply about something, that can lead to that manifesting in the body biologically. So, what happens is, as I said, when there is sudden death, then the soul does not get to process the event of death so well. And that is why when the soul moves from one body to another, and that time those impressions are still there.
So, if somebody has been shot, oh, I have been shot, I have been shot, I have been shot, that impression is there, I was shot in the head. So, that impression is there in the subtle body. And because of that impression in the subtle body, when the new body is formed, and the soul goes into a new body, that impression leads to a mark getting formed on the gross body.
And because the trauma is there, oh, I was hit here, I was hit here, I was hit here, I was shot here, the mark gets formed in the body. So, it results because of the subtle body carrying on the marks. And that is why in all fatalities, it may not happen, because that impression on the mind may not be that much in all cases.
So, how much the person is traumatised, how much the impression is there, that will determine whether that mark is formed or not. Yes, sir. So, you were talking about the soul and the universe because we are not body and soul.
Can you please briefly tell me that what are the advantages of this spiritual knowledge in the life of a person, realising that I am not a body and soul person? Have you thought about it? What are the advantages of knowing that I am not the body, I am the soul? See, Christianity accepts soul without reincarnation. Buddhism accepts reincarnation without soul. Christians say we have a soul, but they say that we will be replicated with the body.
So, that is why they bury the body and they have the concept of resurrection. Of course, it leads to a lot of problems, the concept of bodies in resurrection. Because if you consider that say somebody dies when he is 3-4 years old.
So, then they will be resurrected in their 3-4 year old body. But somebody dies when they are 80. Will they be resurrected in their 80 year old bodies? For all of eternity they will be 80? That is not a heavenly concept for them.
Or worse still, suppose there is a couple and one of them died. And then this other spouse, he or she got remarried. So, now in their spiritual body or in their other world, are they going to have two husbands or two wives? That is not going to be a pleasant experience for them.
So, soul without reincarnation is not a very satisfactory explanation of eternity. On the other hand, Buddhists, some of them have this Anattavada. They say we don’t accept the soul.
So, the question comes, what is it that reincarnates? They accept reincarnation. But they say it is just the impression that reincarnated. But the impression needs to have some locus with their reincarnation.
So, soul cum reincarnation, the most valuable benefit of it is that we get a satisfactory understanding of the purpose of life. What am I living for? Is it that I just live and I die and life is over? Or is it live and I go into non-existence? I was existing to go into non-existence. Is it I live and I come to know about Jesus, I accept Jesus as my saviour and go back to him? Or what about all the people who don’t come to know about Jesus? Are they to be doomed forever? So, if we consider soul without reincarnation or reincarnation without soul, existence is not very meaningful.
So, the meaningfulness and purposefulness of existence comes when we understand that the soul is going through many lifetimes. And our life gets a bigger purpose. Often we have particular goals in our life.
And sometimes some goals may be thwarted. Somebody may, their lifetime dream may be I want to become an athlete. But if they get a permanent incurable injury and their dream is shattered, what do I do then? So, many times when people get frustrated because their dreams are shattered, they don’t have any purpose to live for.
But understanding soul and reincarnation, that gives us a purpose that cannot be thwarted by anything in this world. Any upheaval may come in our life, but we understand that still I am a soul and still even through this, I can progress towards Ashram. So that, infusing our life with deep meaning and an indefatigable purpose, that is the greatest benefit of understanding soul and reincarnation.
Apart from that, in my book, the whole, the last chapter is about benefits of reincarnation only. I talk from ecological, economical and psychological perspectives. So, ecologically we will become less material, we won’t exploit nature so much.
If you understand that I am not a material being, that I won’t, I don’t need material things for my pleasure. That is not the primary source of pleasure. My primary purpose of life is spiritual growth.
Then we won’t exploit the ecology so much. We won’t crave for money by hook and by crook. That greed will go down.
So, economically, the haves won’t exploit the have-nots so much. And economically, there will be more harmony and redistribution of wealth voluntarily can happen. And psychologically, when we face problems, often we feel overwhelmed if we feel personally threatened by the problem.
But if I understand that I have a core which is indestructible, then whatever problems come in our life, we will see that these problems are coming, they are coming to my body, mind, shell. They are not coming to me. Yes, it affects me and I have to deal with it.
But we can be concerned about problems without being disturbed by problems. Because we will see that this body, mind, shell is different from me, the spiritual form. So, in this way, there are immense benefits in terms of giving our life a meaning and purpose.
And even in this life, ecologically, economically, psychologically, there are benefits of understanding the spiritual well-being and adopting it. So, there are several other questions regarding what do other religions say about reincarnation. I have got a whole chapter in the book, what do other religions say about reincarnation.
Broadly speaking, the world’s religions can be grouped into two, dharmic and abrahamic. Dharmic are Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Hinduism. So, in general, dharmic religions are more open to reincarnation.
The abrahamic religions are very history centred. And for them, the appearance of particular prophet or messiah is what is driving them. Now, even in these religions, there is no direct incompatibility or rejection of reincarnation.
There may not be explicit description of reincarnation. But if you see, if you read the Old Testament, the New Testament or the Quran, in none of these books is much philosophy described. The Old Testament is basically, the Old Testament is the holy book of the Jews that primarily describes the adventures and the events in the lives of God’s chosen people, the Jews.
So, it describes various prophets who came and some incidents and some moral instructions. So, how God miraculously instructed and saved them. There is no serious philosophical discussion about the nature of life, the purpose of life.
Similarly, most of the New Testament, the heart of it is the Gospels. And the Gospels are basically the recollections of the four prophets, four prominent prophets about the life of Jesus. And they are describing Jesus’ life and Jesus gave moral parables and instructions.
So, he did not go into philosophy at all. And the Quran is the most unidirectional. It was Muhammad at different times got Gabriel, the archangel to speak through him.
And he spoke at different times, do this, don’t do this. So, again it’s moral codes. So, now, I am not saying that there is no Jewish philosophy, Christian philosophy or Islamic philosophy.
All these religions have their philosophies. But their core texts are not philosophical. But there are intelligent people who have followed these religions and based on their extrapolations of the texts, their integration of the textual wisdom with other worldviews.
So, most of what we call as Christian philosophy is actually biblical morality integrated with Greek philosophy. So, there is not much philosophy described in these religions. That’s why there is no explicit explanation of the nature of the soul and no explicit description of reincarnation.
But it is not that there is anything incompatible with reincarnation. And there are many passages which are very much compatible also with reincarnation. Many of the prominent Christians have believed in reincarnation.
And even now there are many prominent Christians who recommend that reincarnation be integrated as a core teaching of Christianity. So, there is nothing intrinsically incompatible. And philosophy is not the focus of many of these traditions.
That is why there is no mention of reincarnation in a very emphatic way. Yeah, please. Yeah.
So, in, not the last part, what was the last sentence you said? Yeah, so. How does he allow? If Krishna is present in everyone’s heart, how does he allow anyone else to possess a particular’s body? No, Krishna is present in the ghost’s heart also. The ghost may not have a physical heart.
But Krishna doesn’t need a physical heart. See, the super soul is the companion of everyone. And as per the karma of different people, super soul allows different interactions to happen.
So, if the ghost has the karma to have a particular desire fulfilled through entering into another body, Krishna allows that. And this particular person who is possessed, that person has the karma by which they are meant to be controlled by somebody else. That also happens.
So, Krishna is present in the hearts, but he allows the laws of karma to act in the appropriate way. According to karma, some people may be able to possess and some people may get possessed. Can ghosts be seen? There are three modes of interaction.
Basically it’s called as, you could say, you could broadly call it as communication, apparition and possession. So, communication means, what is it called? Channelling or planchets. You may have heard about planchets where some people, there are mediums and you want to call some deceased person.
And then that person writes on a board and that deceased relative comes into the body and writes the message on the board. So, now many mediums may just be fake, but some may be true also. Some people have been able to communicate and get something.
So, this is one mode of interaction where there is communication that happens between the deceased person and in this lifetime. The other is apparition. Apparition means, because the soul is subtle, the soul has certain powers which we don’t have.
Sometimes the soul has a strong craving to communicate something to someone from its previous life. And the soul may manifest a form temporarily, it’s not a physical form, but it’s just like apparition. So, some people say, oh, I saw my grandfather over there.
He had come over there. So, souls, although they are subtle, sometimes they can have certain gross bodies. Sometimes some people are in a closed room and in movies or something they say, the door suddenly opens.
There is nobody over there. So, the ghosts, they have gross powers. So, sometimes they may be able to manifest apparition.
So, the apparition can be seen. And sometimes the ghosts may have possession, where they enter into a particular body. So, these are communication apparition and possession of three modes in which ghosts may interact, broadly speaking.
So, if they interact as apparitions, then in some cases ghosts may be seen. But it may not always happen. So, most of the time because ghosts have a subtle body, so they can’t be seen.
So, some people claim that the goddess has entered into their body. It’s possible that it’s called Avesh. Avesh means entry into the body.
So, sometimes if a person is very devoted to a particular Devata, then as a reciprocation of their devotion, that goddess may manifest into their body. And when that happens, then the person starts behaving in very, they may start dancing wildly. They may start doing, in Marathi, Anga Daale binta upade.
So, sometimes they may start behaving in very strange ways. So, and other people may worship, oh, this person is a special person. Their goddess has entered into the person.
Now, whether that is true or not, if you actually interact with the Devi worshippers, they have their own tests. So, for example, you know, one way they tested is, that somebody is claiming that the goddess is dancing in all kinds of crazy ways. So, actually, if you take a Diya, like we use a Diya for offering Aarti, you take the Diya right to the eye of the person.
Now, it’s a reflect, if some threatening object comes near our eye, then immediately our eyes blink. So, they say, in the Devi tradition, that if somebody is authentically possessed, even if you take a Diya right close to the eye, the eye will not blink. So, that means, you know, that actually the goddess is there, and that’s why there is no reflex action of fear.
So, now, whether it is true or not, with respect to specific cases, we don’t have to become judgemental. Now, we don’t have to start worshipping a person just because they are possessed. Nor do we have to deride the person and say that you are imitating.
In that particular tradition, they may have particular ways in which it can be determined. The important point for us through such incidents is, we can say that there are some evidences of cases where there is some higher reality beyond the physical reality, and that higher reality interacts with this reality. So, we can just see those cases as pointers to the existence of a reality beyond the physical that influences the physical.
Now, how authentic specific cases is, we don’t have to get into that. That becomes? They don’t become. Now, let’s keep the questions focused on this topic now.
Maybe tomorrow in the Bhagavatam class you can ask this question. Let’s focus on, if you have something on Vedika addition, we can discuss that. I will conclude, there is one last question which I will conclude.
Unless, how? During the time of eclipses, sometimes the baby gets marks on their body. Yeah, see basically, once you get into the zone of the paranormal, there are many many events that can happen. And, we don’t have to get into the specifics of all these.
There are mechanisms, it may not happen to all babies, it may happen to some babies. Why it happens? How it happens? Basically, what we need to understand is, that the physical realm, the subtle realm, subtle material realm and then the spiritual realm. So, now at the subtle material realm, also there is great complexity and mystery.
It’s not that everything that happens at the subtle material level, we can know. Sometimes people who do some kind of black magic or whatever, they spend years training for that. So, they are affecting people at a subtle level.
Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they don’t succeed. The point is, the subtle material level also is very complex. And, we don’t have to get into the specifics of certain things.
If we have a particular interest and then we want to study that as a specific subject, we can do that. But, our point in studying this is simply to understand that there is something beyond the physical. And, we are not interested in just the subtle material beyond the physical.
We are interested in the spiritual. So, for us, even when we study reincarnation, we are not particularly interested in the past life, the birth marks that are happening. We are interested in the soul.
And, we are interested in the evolution of the soul. So, we don’t have to get distracted by many mysterious things that may be happening at the subtle material level. We acknowledge the possibility.
We don’t necessarily accept or reject the authenticity of specific events that happen in this way. But, we see the more important principle. That the reality is much bigger than what we perceive with our senses.
Okay. Yes. Okay.
Last two questions. And, I know that in the soul, from the human’s world, he certainly appears as a reincarnation. Whatever the examples which we have got from the reincarnation, it is the same.
At some point, they pass away. Yeah. Or, simply it is a possession.
No. Not possession. Possession would be direct entry.
The reincarnation happens through normal reproductive means itself. Okay. Yes.
Last question. How does death happen? Death nowadays, doctors say, is not an event. It is not an incident.
It is a process. It is a gradual shutdown of the body. From a spiritual perspective, we can say when the soul leaves the body, that is when death happens.
But, exactly how that translates at a physical level? Is it when the heart stops beating? Or, is it when the brain shuts down? Which part of the brain shuts down? So, it is a gradual process. Sometimes, the heart may shut down. But, now we have these resuscitation means.
By which we can use defibrillator. Somebody has got a heart attack. We can revive them.
So, basically, we understand when the soul’s karma for living in a particular body runs out, and the soul has to leave the body, that is when the soul will leave the body. And, till that time, the soul will be in the body. And, sometimes, certain body parts may stop functioning.
When soul’s karma is there, then those body parts will start refunctioning again. And, the soul will live on. So, biologically, currently, medical science says that when there is brain death, especially the lower brain, the middle brain, that is when actually death occurs.
But, the mainstream understanding is that it is a process. Gradually, the body shuts down. But, exact event, moment of death, it is inter… Moment of death, we can say this moment the person died.
But, defining death in biological terms is not that easy. In spiritual terms, we understand when the soul leaves the body, that is when death occurs. Okay.
So, thank you very much. Shila Prabhupada Ki Jai Gaur Bhakta Vrinda Ki Jai Gaur Premananda Ki Jai Thank you very much.