How our mind messes our relationships 2 – Focus on contribution not expectation

[Bhagavatam class at New Vedic Cultural Center, ISKCON, Pune]

Video:

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Shri Prabhupada Ki. Hare Krishna.
Today, we’ll continue the second part on this topic of, how the mind messes our relationships. I will summarise, what I spoke yesterday, and for those of you who were present yesterday, so that you don’t get bored, I will add some things in summary also. So, yesterday I spoke primarily about understanding what the mind is.
So, the mind is the essential link for the soul to connect with the world. The soul is the root, R-O-O-T of consciousness, and the mind is the root, R-O-U-T, the channel of consciousness. And, the perceptions of the world are integrated through the mind, and presented for the soul to process and respond to.
If we have a big building with CCTV or cameras at various entries, which are integrated into the control room, security room, that is a big monitor with many windows within that monitor. So, like that, if we have a monitor with five windows, the mind is like that. And, whichever sensory stimulus seems to be prominent, that’s what zooms, and our consciousness gets captured by that.
Of course, what appears on the screen of the mind can come from outer sensory perception, or it can come from inner recollection also. Now, what will catch our attention, what will zoom in the screen of our mind, is determined not just by the nature of the stimulus that comes in, but also by the nature of the impressions that are there in the mind. So, the mind is the, is inside us, but it is not us.
So, inside us, we can say there is the inner screen, and there is the inner seer. So, the inner screen is the mind, the inner seer is the soul. And, what will zoom on the inner screen, that is determined by two things, the instincts and the impulses.
So, in both instincts and impulses, we act, the zooming in the inner screen, and the response to it happens without conscious use of intelligence. But, with respect to instincts, it is programmed intelligence. So, we act for our security and well-being, say if I touch fire, immediately my hand moves away.
That’s for my security, I don’t think, but it’s instinct. So, our talents, which we have, like the Pandavas, were naturally attracted to weapons. And, Drupada wanted to know what Varana they belong to.
So, that is instinct. So, instinct is programmed intelligence. And, to know what our instincts are, we can note consciously, what we notice subconsciously.
Even without conscious effort, our attention goes to other things. So, if we can note consciously, what we notice subconsciously, then we will be able to know, these are my instincts, this is what I am good at. And, our instincts are different for different people.
Some people may have a sharp, musical instinct, and some may be tone-deaf. So, people who are tone-deaf, they may feel, those who are musically sharp, they may feel, why are you not careful? Why don’t you play properly? Those who have a very sharp, cleanliness instinct, they may feel, why are you so unclean? Why don’t you care? So, we discussed the difference between being insensitive and being desensitised. So, say somebody has a paralytic arm, or something like this.
If I touch that person, and touch, I want to talk with that person, but that person doesn’t turn around with me. Why are you not turning around? But, that person doesn’t have sensation there at all. So, like that, some people are desensitised.
Some people may be desensitised about music, some people may be desensitised about cleanliness, some may be desensitised about grammar. So, for the other person who is very sensitised, these people may seem very irritating. But, actually, they are not intentionally irritating.
They are not being insensitive. They are simply desensitised. And often, we come into problems in relationships because we think that when somebody who doesn’t have a particular instinct, that person is acting to irritate us.
But their mind just doesn’t think that way. So, we have to become a little less sensitive if we are very sensitive. And those who are desensitised, they have to become aware.
Okay, I have this limitation and I have to be more cautious about this. Instincts can be trained and developed. But they also come from birth, from our past karma.
And whatever is instinctive for us, that will zoom in our consciousness very rapidly. The other impression that is there within us is impulses. So, instinct can be roughly equated with vritti and impulse with vasana.
So, impulse is, again, action without conscious thought. But action that is destructive for us. So, we may overeat, we may oversleep, people may just drink, people may explode in anger.
This is impulse. So, impulses need to be controlled. And everybody has impulses which are unhealthy.
But the magnitude of the unhealthiness of the impulses, that determines how destructive that person may be individually or socially. So, when in psychology people are said to need mental health care, when their impulses become destructive. Everybody gets angry, but if somebody in anger picks up a gun and starts shooting others, that is, the angry impulse is extremely dangerous.
So, the impulses, by the practise of bhakti, can gradually be regulated. And the instincts can be channelled for our spiritual growth. So, when we are working with others, everybody has their impulses and instincts and we have our impulses and instincts.
So, if we compare others’ weaknesses with our strengths, I am always on time, why can’t you come on time? But they don’t have that strength. They don’t have that time consciousness. So, rather than comparing their weaknesses with our strengths, we should compare their weaknesses with our weaknesses.
Okay, I keep forgetting things. Just as it is difficult for me to remember where I kept things, for this person it is difficult to come on time. That doesn’t mean we continue our conditionings, but then we become more understanding of each other.
So, today I’ll speak on the topic of how, based on our instincts and our impulses, we form certain opinions and these can make us judgemental about others. So, when we are in any relationship, in any relationship there is give and take. Every relationship there is a contribution that we make and there is an expectation that we have of reciprocation from the other person.
The relationship becomes imbalanced and strained when the contribution is too little and the expectation is too high. And now, here the significant is, it is not just how much contribution somebody makes. What matters in a relationship is how much contribution the other person feels is being made.
I may be doing a lot for the other person, but the other person doesn’t feel it. Then therefore you are doing nothing in this relationship. Similarly, the weight of expectation and the other person may or may not have some expectation, but the other person feels the weight of the expectation.
This is what is expected from you. Then that also becomes a problem. So, when we start practising bhakti, sometimes, what happens, especially if our relatives, our loved ones, are not practising bhakti, are not practising bhakti at the same level at which we are practising, or even our friends, then in the relationship that we have, our natural desire is that we have come to Krishna, that they should also come to Krishna.
We feel that Krishna bhakti has benefited us, we want it to benefit them also. But, what happens is that unwittingly, because we start practising Krishna bhakti, so our time, our energy, our focus shifts. So, often other people feel that our contribution in that relationship has gone down.
And our wanting that they start practising spiritual life, that comes on to them as an increased expectation. So, when we start practising spiritual life, what happens is often for others, they start feeling that in that relationship, we are contributing less and we are expecting more. And that leads to straining in the relationships.
And this can happen not just among devotee and non-devotee relationship, even devotee-devotee relationships also. Sometimes, we all have certain standards that we follow and we expect each other to follow those standards. And then that becomes an expectation, which can become a burden.
Now, when we often say that we should spiritualise our relationships, and we think sometimes simplistically, spiritualising our relationship means we should make others into devotees. That is spiritualising our relationship. We should bring Krishna into the relationship.
Yes, that is true. We should bring Krishna into the relationship. But we have to bring Krishna into the relationship in a way that the other person finds palatable and attractive.
It has to be according to their level. If that doesn’t happen, then our bringing Krishna into the relationship can seem like an imposition in that relationship. So, the essence of any relationship, spiritualising a relationship, the essence is if we consider spiritualising our own identity.
Spiritualising identity means that we understand that we are souls and that not just that we are souls, that we are servants of Krishna. Krishna is our lord and we are meant to serve him. Similarly, if we want to spiritualise our relationships, that means we have to understand that I am a servant of everyone.
So, even if my relative, even if my friend, even if my colleague, even my loved one is not a devotee, still I am meant to serve them. Now, the way I serve them is not by joining in their worldly sense gratification. I serve them by getting them come closer to Krishna.
But, if we are serving them, that means we have to bring Krishna in a way that they can accept, that they can become attracted to. Because ultimately, choosing Krishna is every soul’s individual choice. Krishna at the end of the Bhagavad Gita tells our Lord, do as you desire.
So, even Krishna doesn’t force. So, who are we to force? We can’t force anyone at all. And many times we force people, that alienates them.
So, when we are spiritualising our relationship, that means that the essence is, we try to increase our contribution. That doesn’t necessarily mean that we increase pandering to the worldly ways of others, but we increase our service attitude. And we see, okay, how can I bring Krishna in an attractive way into this relationship.
That is the contribution that we make. And the expectation is, we want that person to take up, but that is up to them. You know, how much often we feel like pushing others.
When we become devotees, or at least we think we have become devotees, whether we have become or not, that’s open to question. But when that happens, often, we try to, we use the philosophy and we are told to look at the world through Shastra Chakshi, through philosophical eyes. But then, the philosophy is subtle, and there are many complexities in the philosophy.
But what we do from the philosophy, we take certain points and start putting labels on people. This person, mayavad, this person rascal, this person attached, this person like this, that person like that. And these labels become like barriers in our relationship with others.
So, in the last one year or so, almost 6 months, 180 days I have been in America. Spiritual Master has told me to focus more on Western outreach. So, when I went from India to America, I had to recalibrate and reconceptualise my understanding of what Bhakti was.
So, more than teaching Bhakti to others, I had to learn how Bhakti is to be taught to others. So, one devotee told me that if you think you are going to deliver anyone, people dare to deliver you back here. So, if you see, Prabhupada, first when he went to America, for the first several months, he was learning about American culture.
Sally Agarwal, Gopal Agarwal, the family at which Prabhupada stayed. So, Sally Agarwal, she said that Swamiji was very interested in everything Western. She said, if you use a vacuum cleaner, Prabhupada, how does it work? You know, we had some cooking devices, how do these work? Prabhupada was curious like a child about everything.
So, basically, Prabhupada was learning, observing, and then, when he finally encountered the hippies, he saw, here there is a spiritual spark, and then he ignited the spark. So, in every situation that people are in, people have their own backgrounds. And, people have their own cultural contexts.
And, unless we become sensitive to their cultural contexts, we can very easily assume and apply our own labels to them. And it is very difficult for us to actually appreciate and connect with people. So, one of the distinctive differences, which I noticed between India and America was just how many dogs there are in America.
So, in fact, if we go to some parks, often, more than the number of children are the number of dogs. In fact, in several metropolitan cities, actually, if you see the Caucasian population, the American, Western population, the number of dogs in those families are more than the number of children. The significant number of children in American families are from the immigrants, the Indians, Chinese, and especially the Muslims.
So, what has happened? Actually, dogs… I was at an airport, and I saw an advertisement. So, it was… Now, if you have to travel, you don’t have to leave your life behind. So, I looked down, there’s a picture of a young professional woman, and she was in front of a computer.
She was looking with great love at her pet dog. So, this was a special aeroplane which allows you to book a seat next to you for your dog to travel with. And then, even if you go to an airport, if you have to go for your meetings, they have special people, they have special trains, hotel staff, who will take care of your dogs.
So, basically, you travel, you can travel with your dog wherever you go. So, there are special shops, just like mothers have, if they have babies, they have these parambulators where you take the babies. So, there are dog parambulators where people take dogs with them.
So, the amount of money which people spend on dogs, and the amount of affection and care that they give is extraordinary. And, I started discussing with western devotees and started to understand what has actually happened. So, at one level, the amount of time and money and attention people give to dogs can seem irrational to us.
But on another level, the reality is actually quite heart-breaking. So, what has happened in the western world is, there is, as I said, in relationship there is contribution and expectation. So, the western world is very averse to commitments.
So, people don’t want to commit to any relationship. So, there is a culture of hook-up, shack-up and break-up. So, hook-up means a man and a woman get together for a night, shack-up means they live together and then break-up means they just go their own ways.
So, in this culture, especially, there are a large number of people who just feel that having children is a big burden. Because, you get married, have a child, but then there is separation. And who will take care of the child? And especially, a large population of American children, America is a large country with many immigrants also, but I am talking about people who are Caucasians.
For them, a large percentage are single-parent families. And mostly single-parent means single-mother families. So, because of this, what happens if there is only one parent and they have to take care of the child and they have to earn a living and they have to live in today’s world, it becomes a huge burden.
So, many people feel that instead of having a child, there is, especially when one grows into adulthood and especially when one is a female, there is a natural need to nurture. So, instead of directing that need to nurture towards a child, they direct it towards a pet. Because the pet dog stays faithful.
It’s a child grows up and what the child will do, we don’t know. How will it take care of the child? I met one boy when I was in college for a programme which has become a devotee and he told me that he grew up in a foster care system. Now foster care means normally if the parents are not there, then the children go to orphanage.
But if some families adopt a child from the orphanage, then it’s called foster care. And in this foster care, what happens? If the parents who have adopted find that, oh, this child, we can’t get along with him, they send him back to the orphanage. And like this, people are shuttled from one foster care house to another to another.
So, then I asked him that, okay, so what happened to your parents? Did they pass away in an accident or something? He said, no, both of them are alive. I said, then why are you in foster care? He said that actually, both of them, when he was around 5 years old, both of them divorced. And normally when parents divorce, there are sometimes custody battles.
Both parents want the child to be with them. I want the child, I want the child. But in this case, both the parents, the husband told the wife and the wife told the husband that, you know, the husband told the wife that, you know, marrying you was the biggest mistake of my life.
And this child is a reminder of the biggest mistake of my life. So, I don’t want anything to do with this child. So, can you imagine? Both the parents are alive but neither parent wants to take care of the child.
And the child has to go to orphanage because of that. It’s heartbreaking. The kind of way people are living, it is because of living in such a way.
So, people basically feel that children are a burden. And then, when the need to nurture is there, instead of taking care of child, they take care of dogs. And dogs get so much love.
While there are no children. There are no children, especially the American population. It’s actually alarmingly decreasing now.
Initially, the American army was a little hesitant to take in immigrants because they doubted the faithfulness of the immigrants. But then they found, if they want to take only Americans, there are not enough Americans. Their army will not be strong enough.
So, they had to take in Americans more and more. They had to take in American immigrants also more and more. So, basically, this is a civilisation where there are a lot of professional competences there.
In terms of getting things done on time and being responsible there. But in terms of relational commitment, it is not there. It is very, very less.
And what happens in such a civilisation, if we talk about renunciation, it can be completely misunderstood and misapplied. See, aversion to commitment is not detachment. Aversion to commitment is not detachment.
Detachment means that I am not interested in this worldly enjoyment. So, detachment arises from sattva guna moving towards transcendence. But aversion to commitment means there are so many options to enjoy, I can’t decide which to enjoy.
So, I will keep all options open. So, I don’t want to get into any relationship. I can enjoy with this person, I can enjoy with that person, I can enjoy with that person.
So, aversion to commitment is actually in the mode of ignorance. It is tamasic. So, detachment is sadhvik.
But externally, both can appear the same. Aversion to commitment can seem like detachment. But they are two very different things.
So, in this context, when people live like this, human relationships are very, very weak. So, when we practise bhakti and if we focus in bhakti on the principle of detachment, when people actually don’t have detachment, but people simply act as if they are detached. And then, it backfires in a very bad way.
Because the tamo guna is there, the sattva guna is not there. And one is imagining that one is detached. So then, one’s attachment surfaces again and one’s attachment surfaces again.
Then one starts thinking, I was practising bhakti. What happened? Bhakti didn’t work. It is not that bhakti didn’t work.
We never let bhakti work only. We assume that we were at a renounced level. But not at a renounced level at all.
The essence of bhakti is not attachment or detachment. The essence of bhakti is commitment. We are meant to become committed in our relationship with Krishna.
And committed in our relationship with Krishna also means committed in our relationship with the parts of Krishna with whom we are serving. So yes, for this commitment, we need detachment to some extent. Especially from non-devotional activities, we do need detachment.
But it’s a situation where if we don’t understand what is going on, we may actually we may apply the principles of bhakti in a way that doesn’t benefit people, that harms people. So renunciation is important on any spiritual path. there is renunciation and there is frustration.
So renunciation in the mode of goodness, frustration in the mode of ignorance. So frustration with relationships can be mistaken to be renunciation. But it is not.
And so this immense love for dogs that is there, that is it is coming from a particular background and that background is actually heartbreaking. And when I went, I saw in the western world, even many devotees had pet dogs. So I was wondering what is this? I saw one very senior devotee, wherever he would go, he had always a pet dog with him.
I was thinking, is he so attached to the pet dog? But then later I found out, again I am saying that, see I come from a particular background, I think dogs means attachment. But actually this devotee, he told me later and I apologised to him afterwards for my judgemental mentality. He said that he gets, he has some brain degenerative disease because of which he gets fits.
And this dog which he has is a trained therapy dog. So what happens is, there are these dogs who can be trained and they sense when somebody is going to get a fit. And what happens as soon as this person, when they get a fit, they are normally walking around, suddenly they fit and they fall.
So what happens is, this dog senses and dog goes behind and dog pushes the foot. So he said that this dog has saved my life three times till now. If I had fallen one time, I fell right in the middle of a road.
I would have died over there. But this dog, the dog starts barking and dog starts coming in the way pushing the foot. So there is an American ethologist who has written a book called Are we smart enough to know how smart animals are? So, animals also have a lot of abilities.
In fact, today in the western world, today if you come there, you are acting like an animal. We consider that as an insult to human beings. In west, if you say you are acting like an animal, that is considered to be an insult to an animal.
So, people have a lot of high regard for animals. So, there was another devotee who I heard, I did not meet this devotee, but I heard about her by some other devotee, she said that this Mataji had a pet dog and when this dog died, she chanted all night, the only time in her life she chanted 128 rounds. Sitting next to the dog, she chanted 128 rounds.
And the Brahma Samhita was going on and the moment when Chintamani Prakashadmashu came up, this dog left his body. And, so, I was thinking, what is this? But then, when I enquired further, I came to know that this devotee Mataji, she had gone through three bad marriages. One, before she became a devotee and two, after she became a devotee.
They are like abusive marriages. And even her spiritual guides, her spiritual master and her temple president, both had some problems. And both of them had left them.
So, she said, she had come to a level in her life, she said, I cannot trust any human being at all. I accept Krishna is the goal of my life, but I need some reciprocation while I am going towards Krishna. So, this dog provided me the reciprocation.
So, initially, if you hear a devotee so attached to a dog, you may ask, why such a person, why the devotee will be like that? But we hear a background, we will get the question, how can a person who has gone through this still be a devotee? So, people go through various different backgrounds. And, in Kanyuga, the complexity of the world is so great that we, we, if we go with just a simple judgemental mentality, we misunderstand things, we alienate people. So, in my understanding, humility means to acknowledge the complexity of reality.
We study the philosophy, and the philosophy gets some labels, and it’s attached. This is this, this is that, this is that. But it’s not like that.
Humility means to acknowledge the complexity of reality. That, actually, in reality, there can be many different things that can be happening to different people at different times. So, we see in the Chaitanya Charita Amrit, when Shivalan Singh’s nephew, what is his name, Govinda, he was disturbed.
He was disturbed, and he came to meet Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and he did not take off his upper cloth while offering obeisances. So, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s servant was telling him, take off the upper cloth. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu told him, don’t trouble him, because he’s already troubling.
So, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu exhibited understanding of it. There’s a normal etiquette to be followed, but in that particular situation, he was disturbed. The expectation that you follow this etiquette, that would have been a further burden.
So, don’t bother about that. So, basically, we see that in this world, when we are practising bhakti, all of us come from particular backgrounds. And, based on the backgrounds that we come from, certain things are natural for us, certain things are unnatural for us.
So, materially and spiritually, we all need to find an optimum balance by which we can practise bhakti. So, different people may need different things materially. I’ll give you an example.
Some people are very super sensitive to heat. So, if you’re chanting Hare Krishna, and you’re sweating profusely, just sit under a fan and chant Hare Krishna. Now, somebody else, who may not have that heat sensitive body, you just chant and absorb yourself in Krishna.
Why do you need a fan? You just need Krishna. Well, yeah, it’s true. Ultimately, we need Krishna.
But, intermittently, my body is such that the heat can become so intolerable that I need a fan. If I don’t have that fan, I’m chanting Krishna, Krishna, internally, fan, fan, Krishna, Krishna, fan, fan. So, now, a fan is a small heat.
Okay, you sit under a fan, chant Hare Krishna. If there is no fan, still you will chant. You will not give up chanting.
But, if there is a fan, it just decreases the distraction. So, based on the body-mind that we have, each of us may need certain things, so that we can fix our mind on Krishna. And what different people may need can vary from, vary based on people’s backgrounds.
So, I gave an example that what we need materially is like a pain killer. And spiritually, our Krishna bhakti is like a medicine. So, normally, when there is treatment given, if a patient is in pain and is sick, the doctor gives both pain killer and medicine.
And, different patients, in some cases, let’s say there is a dental problem, then, different people have different thresholds of tolerating pain. So, if you do a root canal, the doctor may give some level of pain medicine. And if the patient feels a lot of pain, give more medicine.
If the patient doesn’t feel pain, not use so much medicine. So, different people will require different levels of pain killers. And what that means is? It’s a question.
I thought there was some announcement within the class. If the question answers, please give me afterwards. So, different people may require different kinds and different levels of pain killers.
When people go to a dentist, they are not going to just take a pain killer. They want to get cured. But in the intermediate, they need a pain killer to manage, to live, to tolerate.
So, now, person X may not need the pain killer. Person Y may need an intermediate dose. Person Z may need a huge dose of pain killer.
But the point is, the important point is to take the medicine and get cured. Whatever pain killer you need, that’s fine. A big mistake happens when we think the pain killer alone is enough.
I don’t need the medicine at all. I think, oh, pain killer, my pain is going away. But internally, the pain is worsening.
So, if we think that material things alone will solve our problems. Oh, a good material facility, a good material relationship, a good material job, good material security, these alone will solve my problems. And the idea is, thinking the pain killer alone will do.
But that will not work. Eventually, we’ll find that no material shelter will shelter us forever. And we will be left shelterless.
But at the same time, different people may require different dosages of pain killers. So that they can live and take the medicine. So, if somebody needs more pain killers, somebody needs less pain killers, that’s okay.
One extreme is to say, take only the pain killer. The other extreme is to say, don’t take any pain killer. Now, the person may be in such pain that they can’t do anything.
So, they need some amount of pain killer. By pain killer, I mean, as I said, give an example of a fan. Some people may need a fan.
Some people may need a particular type of material comforts. So, that needing of material comforts is not necessarily a deficiency in one’s devotion. That is just a requirement of the body-mind so that one can focus the mind on Krishna.
Now, if one gets obsessed in searching for a pain killer alone and neglects the medicine, that is bad. But using the pain killer and focussing on the medicine, that is good enough. So, by pain killer, what I mean is that all of us will have different levels of renunciation.
Some people can give up certain things very easily. Some people may not be able to give up certain things very easily. So, what we renounce is important.
But what we connect with is even more important. And if we do not have a high level of renunciation, that does not mean that we can’t have a high level of connection with Krishna. Our connection with Krishna can still be established.
So, renunciation is also, in some cases, a result of one’s past karma. The renunciation that comes in a sadhaka’s life can come from two ways. One is through the practise of bhakti.
When we practise bhakti, bhakti naturally leads to the jnana and vairagya. At the same time, if you look at these words in context, in the first stanza of Srimad Bhagavatam, it is 1.2.7. And 1.2.6 is sa vaipumsa parodharmo yato bhakti adhokshate ahaituky apratihata ye atmasu prasidhi. So, in the context, what is this verse implying? Srutakoswamy has said that love for Krishna is the parodharma.
And then, the question comes up that there are so many other things in Vedic culture. There is jnana, there is vairagya, there is varanashram, there is yajnanatma. What about all that? Jnana and vairagya, they will automatically come back.
Varanashram, it is all ultimately meant to bring you to bhakti. The point is to show how bhakti is what is most important. But, if you look at an objective level, just because somebody becomes a very great devotee, does that mean that person will necessarily become very elevated in jnana? Is it that some devotee who is of a non-intellectual nature, just by becoming a serious devotee, will become a very intellectual in nature? No.
They will have enough jnana so that they can practise bhakti. But, if somebody is of an intellectual nature, they can use that intellect in Krishna’s service. If somebody is not of an intellectual nature, they may or they may not become of an intellectual nature.
Just as the jnana, in terms of intellectuality, may not increase dramatically just because of bhakti. Similarly, the vairagya may not dramatically increase because of bhakti. Many people, by their past karma, may have some high level of vairagya.
And some people may have a low level of vairagya. Krishna has six opulences. Which are those? Strength, faith, knowledge, wealth, beauty, renunciation.
Now, among the six opulences, if we consider, we also, as people in this material world, we are attracted to whoever has these opulences. We are attracted to wealthy people. We are attracted to good looking people.
We are attracted to strong people. So, basically, now, why is somebody wealthy? Why is somebody strong? Why is somebody good looking? That’s because of their past karma. So, just as by past karma, somebody may be too well, similarly, by past karma, somebody may get renunciation.
So, one of the greatest ironies of the last century was that the man who was responsible for killing more people than anyone else was Hitler. Hitler was a vegetarian. He killed human beings but he would not kill animals for food.
So, now, what does this mean? He had some level of understanding, some level of attachment because he did not eat meat. But does that mean that the many people who eat meat they are worse than Hitler? Or does that mean that Hitler had that renunciation from eating meat but was he a renounced person? Not at all. So, again, humility means to acknowledge the complexity of reality.
So, the point I am making is that there are some people who may be renounced and their renunciation may just be a result of their past karma. So, there are some atheists who, if you look at their lifestyle, they just live in goodness. They are very simple living and very nature friendly, eco-friendly kind of living.
But they have no belief in God at all. So, that, if somebody has lived in the mood of goodness in the previous life, they may have the mood of goodness in this life also. So, different people by their past karma may have different levels of renunciation.
And our renunciation is a valuable resource that we can use for serving Krishna. Just as wealth is. If somebody has money, it’s a good resource they can use in Krishna’s service.
If somebody has knowledge, intellectual ability, they can use that in Krishna’s service. Similarly, renunciation is also a resource that we can use in Krishna’s service. But, if somebody does not have a high level of renunciation, that does not mean that they can’t serve Krishna.
Or that does not mean that their service to Krishna in this lifetime is deficient in some way. So now, we don’t have to go into a judgemental mentality and start evaluating, is your renunciation because of your bhakti or is it because of your past life? No, if somebody is renounced, we respect that. But the point is that we just focus on using what we have for serving Krishna.
Sometimes, the pursuit of renunciation can become a distraction from the pursuit for devotion. We focus so much on I have to give this up, I have to give this up, I have to give this up. Or we can impose it on others.
Why are you not giving it up? Why are you not giving it up? Why are you not giving it up? And that person gets so burned by it. So, you’re practising bhakti otherwise, you’re doing things in serving Krishna. Why? At one thing, it may take some time to give it up.
It doesn’t matter. The important thing is we connect with Krishna. So, different people will have different capacities for renunciation based on their own past karma and their present practise of bhakti.
So, if person’s capacity for renunciation is less, that means that person may need more dosage of pain killers. They may need more material facility, more material dedication. But still, they can practise bhakti.
The important thing is to connect with Krishna. Yesterday, there was a question about what if somebody’s impulses don’t change after practise of bhakti for a long time. And then several devotees came and told me bhakti transforms the heart.
So, if it transforms the heart then how can we say the impulses will not change? Shouldn’t they have to change? We hear so much about the glory of bhakti. Yes. We all have experienced transformation in our heart by the practise of bhakti.
And hundreds and thousands of people have been transformed. Just like if there is a medicine. It has cured many, many people of disease.
But, those who are doctors, sometimes they find that okay, this medicine has worked for so many people but this medicine is not working for this person. You are trying everything. You are checking the parameters.
This, this, this. Maybe later after research you find there is some problem in this person’s blood or this person has some complications because of this medicine not acting. So, we have to accept the reality of scripture but we also need to accept reality as we encounter it now in our lives.
So, yes bhakti has enormous potency. At the same time we we have to live with the mind and the body that we have. So, if somebody finds that by the practise of bhakti they are practising but somehow they are not able to give up something.
I was in one country in the west. So, there I met one person he said that he has been chanting Hare Krishna for 23 years, 16 rounds. But, he is not, I said I have not been able to give up tea.
And he said, what is the big deal about giving up tea? You just give it up. You just give it up. He forgot it.
But, he says that you know, somehow normally when people take drugs or something they get withdrawal symptoms if they try to give up drugs. So, in his case he has got a particular body type as soon as he stops taking tea he gets severe withdrawal symptoms. Withdrawal symptoms basically means that when the body is habituated to getting something and you stop giving that to the body, the body reacts.
We start getting, different people have some people throw up vomit, some people get cough, some people get flu. So, now this person when I asked the temple devotees, the temple leaders over there they said, this person is so diligent in sadhana, this person does so much seva, such a wonderful attitude. But, somehow he has not been able to give up that.
Now, just because that person has not been able to give up that, are you going to say, you are not a sincere devotee? That person is sincere in so many other things. So, yes in a particular situation a particular problem may come. Recognise the potency of bhakti because it has transformed so many people’s lives.
But, if in some particular situation for a particular anartha, it’s difficult for a person to give something up. We don’t have to become judgemental and condemn, you are insincere. Okay, this is how you are, practise bhakti how you are.
And this may be able to give up, it may take some time. Our habits serve certain needs for us. And different habits serve different needs for people.
Say, somebody may start drinking. They go to college and they start drinking. Why? Because they just want to look cool, they want to hang with the crowd.
So, that’s how they started drinking. But then, if their crowd changes, if they start associating with people who are not drinking, their drinking habit goes away. But somebody else may be drinking to get relief.
Drinking is their escape mechanism. So, for the first person, drinking that’s a particular action that we do, that’s an external action. And internally, the action serves a particular need.
So, for the first person, drinking simply serves the need of company. He just wanted to hang out, wanted to be in company, but that need was served through some other company, then drinking went away. But for somebody else, drinking might be a relief mechanism, escape mechanism.
If you have problems, just drink and forget the problems. Now, unless that person finds some other mechanism for getting relief, they will not be able to stop drinking. I’m going to give this up, I’m going to give this up.
But when the problems start coming, instinctively they’ll want relief in that direction. So, sometimes our habit, what need is it serving? We may not be able to take that. And some people, they do certain things, they just feel bored with life.
So, bored with life, so let me watch something, let me drink something, let me serve somewhere, let me do this, let me do that. Why are you doing this? You’re so uncontrolled. No, the problem is not lack of control.
The problem is boredom. So, unless one is able to find something equally or more stimulating, which is healthy, just willpower will not work. And that not working is not simply a lack of willpower.
I met one devotee who’s a de-addiction consultant. And he said that in addiction, there are two theories broadly. Is addiction a choice or is it a disease? That means when a person drinks, is it that the person just can’t control the senses, can’t control oneself, and it’s a choice that they’re making? Or is it a disease that compels them to drink? So, actually speaking, when we indulge in a particular habit repeatedly, according to neuroscience, our brain wiring changes.
And when the brain wiring changes, so, yesterday I talked about instincts. Some people can see certain things quickly. Basically, their brain wiring is very well done so that they can notice those things.
So, when we become habituated to something, the brain wiring is such that we notice it, we crave for it, and we do it. And of course, the brain wiring can also be changed. But, the point is, that addiction becomes the default choice.
So, in many cases, addiction is treated as a disease which will need proper treatment. Certainly, willpower is required. But it is not just willpower alone.
There is willpower with the proper treatment. Say, somebody else somebody is getting a sneeze. Just a few days ago, a friend sent me a news item.
Somebody who was at an urge to sneeze at a social event for illuminary people. He didn’t want to draw attention to himself by sneezing. So, he tried to hold the sneeze back and actually, that sneeze urged, it ruptured his throat.
A big hole came in his throat and he had to rush to the hospital. So, he tried to hold the sneeze and the sneeze was coming, coming, coming and it came out through the hole in the throat. So, the point I am making is if somebody has got sickness and they are sneezing, controlling sneezing is not a matter of willpower.
Don’t sneeze. If somebody has got a cough, use your willpower. Don’t cough.
If somebody has got loose motion, control your breathing. It’s a disease over there. So, yes, if somebody has got loose motion, they also need willpower.
But the willpower is to regulate their diet, to take the proper medicine. It is not to control the urge to respond to nature. So, the willpower is required but it has to be properly used in the context of a proper treatment.
So, for us, the ultimate treatment is bhakti and that is extremely important. Along with our practise of bhakti, all of us, based on our particular situations, may have certain conditionings which may be very easy for us to give up but which may be very difficult for someone else to give up. Why? Because that conditioning, that habit may be serving different needs for different people.
So, two people drink alcohol, both of them come to bhakti, one of them gives up it one day and the other struggles for months or even years to give it up. Why? Because for one person, it was just drinking because of the company. For the other person, it was an escape mechanism.
It was a relief pathway. So, unless that person finds a healthy relief pathway, that person will not be able to give up simply because of alcohol. So, what is the implication of all this? The implication is simply that we shouldn’t become judgemental about others if they struggle to give up certain conditionings.
We have to recognise that everybody is going through their own issues and just as we struggle with our conditionings, we also struggle with their conditionings. So, we are all trying to move towards Krishna in our own particular ways and whatever it takes, we do that and we keep moving towards Krishna. Earlier, I said that the quest for renunciation should not become a distraction from the quest for devotion.
So, I conclude with that point elaborating a little bit. When we want to practise bhakti, we have to have the right parameters for deciding how am I advancing in bhakti. One parameter of advancement in bhakti is how much I am becoming detached from all the things.
That is an important parameter. But the most important parameter is how much am I connecting with Krishna. So, all of us based on our particular situations, we all can connect with Krishna no matter whatever happens.
Wherever we are, I connect with Krishna. Okay, this happens, that happens. Still, I’ll keep practising bhakti.
I’ll keep doing some seva, I’ll keep doing some sadhana, I’ll keep doing some study of scripture. So, if you consider the graph of our consciousness with respect to time, then based on our conditionings, sometimes certain desires may spike up, shoot up. And when those desires shoot up, at that time, it may be almost impossible to overcome them, to resist them.
And they may cause us to fall down. But then, after that, what do we do? After that, do we just keep, why did I do that? If we do that, then what is happening? Again, we are simply being mind conscious. First, the mind says, do that, do that, do that.
And the mind says, you fool, why did you do that? Why did you do that? So, it’s like, suppose, you know, we have gone to a bank and a friend comes and knocks on the door. Come on, let’s rob this bank. What? Let’s rob it.
I have a good fool-proof plan. We’ll rob it, nobody will catch us, we’ll become rich. We start considering it.
And then, we rob the bank and that person runs away. And we get caught. And then we get caught, we are arrested by the police and we go to the court and sitting as the judge is that same very friend.
Who is going to sentence us? So, the mind is like that. The mind first makes us do wrong and then judges us and condemns us for having done wrong. He says, do it, do it, do it.
Why did you do it? You are such a fool. Will you never learn? So, in both cases, what is happening is when we are succumbing, we are mind conscious and then when we are beating ourselves up, again we are mind conscious. Either way, we are not Krishna conscious.
And if we are not Krishna conscious, how are we going to get purified? So, if I said in the graph of time versus consciousness, the desire shoots up. At that time, it is unbearable, irresistible. We do something.
But after that, what do we do? It’s not that the desire or conditioning torments us 24 hours a day. It comes, it stays for some time, then it goes. So, in between the spikes, what do we do? If at that time, we seriously practise Bhakti, then that is what is going to strengthen us.
That is what is going to purify us. Yes, what we do in that spike, it can be serious. It has consequences and that has to be recognised.
But along with that, what we do in between the spikes is what is going to purify us. Because when those spikes come, we may sometimes be helpless. But in between, if we are practising Bhakti, if we are connecting with Krishna, then we can have full martyrdom.
No matter what happens. Krishna’s love for us does not depend on who we are. It is not based on who we are.
Krishna’s love for us is based on who He is. He is surudham sarva-bhutana. He is not only the surudha of the devotees who are following high standards.
Even the devotees who are struggling, even the non-devotees, He is the remission of everyone. So, Krishna’s love for us is based on who He is. So, even if during the spike something bad has happened, Krishna is still in our heart, Krishna still loves us and Krishna is still there in our hearts to lift us up.
So, the important thing is, our renunciation means whether we are able to resist the spike or not. But even if we are not able to resist, still in the intermediate period we can connect with Krishna. And if we connect with Krishna, that connection will strengthen us.
And as it strengthens us more and more, then next time the spike comes, when the desire shoots up, at that time we will be better equipped to resist it. Even that time also we may fall. But over a period of time, gradually we will become stronger.
So, in the long run, our spiritual growth will be determined not so much by what happens in the spikes, but what happens in between those spikes. What happens in between the spikes may not be in our control. But what happens in between is in our control.
And if we focus on that, making renunciation as the parameter of our devotion means thinking that, oh, if I cannot resist the spike, then I am hopeless. But making devotion as the parameter of our spiritual growth means what do I do during the times when I am not agitated. Yes, what I am doing at this time also matters.
But I can’t deal with it right now. So, let me focus on doing what I can. And when we do that, gradually, steadily, our conditions will be overcome.
And for continuing on in between these spikes, we need to be encouraged. And the greatest loss in bhakti is the loss of hope. If we lose hope that I can become purified, if we lose hope that I can continue practising bhakti, then that is the greatest loss.
And we need to ourselves be convinced that, okay, what happens in spikes doesn’t matter as much as what happens in between. Then we will not lose hope. If you look at others, you won’t get the spike from me.
This person is so advanced and what am I? I am so forward. Well, we don’t have to compare. That person has a different mind, I have a different mind.
So, I have to deal with my spikes and I have to deal with the best way that I can. And if we maintain that hope and for that we need like-minded devotees who understand our struggles and they don’t judge us for our struggles. They do have to caution us.
Now, our conditionings need cautioning and our conditioning needs cushioning. Cautioning means, you have to be careful when the spikes come, don’t indulge in excessive or dangerous way. Even then you have to keep yourself alert.
But cushioning, we need cautioning that this is dangerous but we also need cushioning. Cushioning means that, yes, don’t feel too bad about it, continue practising bhakti. When you keep practising bhakti, that’s how we will advance and that’s how we will ultimately come to Krishna.
So, the potency of bhakti to transform hearts is what is our hope. That is our greatest hope and how it will transform in specific case, that may vary. So, if there is a struggle, we don’t have to become discouraged.
We can still be confident that bhakti will transform my heart but if this particular conditioning is taking a long time for me, okay, still I will keep practising bhakti. I’ll conclude with one story about this transformation which I experienced during my American travels. First time when I went to America in 2015, I had gone to a university and there, I gave a talk to a vegetarian society on regulating our meat and diet.
So, after that one American boy, he came and told me, just before this class, I was contemplating suicide. He said that I had been in a relationship with a girl and she had broken up with me. He just sent a message, I’m breaking up and she was going with some other boy.
And he said she had blocked my phone not responding to it. He says, I was shattered. One of the greatest fears that the youth have today is among the top 10 fears of people is the fear of rejection.
People want to form a relationship, they feel they’re rejected. It’s not that the relationship alone has gone wrong, they feel that they themselves are unworthy. So, their self-worth gets shattered.
So, he said that, because of that I was contemplating suicide. But then I saw this poster of this programme and I came for this programme. He said, now I understand, I don’t want to commit suicide, it is my mind which is telling me this.
So, I told him, yes, it’s a very good understanding that you read the Bhagavad Gita. You read the Bhagavad Gita. I connected him with the Bhagavad Gita.
I said, you can read about the mind and how it functions over there. And then, so every year when I go, I meet him. He is now studying.
So, this year, Allah, the last year, 2017 fall, when I had gone, I met him again. And he told me, again I faced exactly the same situation. You know, I was in a relationship with another girl, we had been going to study for more than a year.
And, again she broke up with me. And he said, this time, as soon as I got that text, you know, I went straight to my room, closed my windows, closed the door, shut off the lights. And he said, he is a singer, so, he said, I picked up my violin and six hours continuously, I was singing Hare Krishna.
He said, that which would have been the most depressing moment of my life, that became the most uplifting moment. He said, I felt closer to Krishna than I had felt ever before in my life. I could sense the presence of Krishna.
So, he could actually get that relief. So, previously the same mind just seeking relief through suicide, now the mind sought relief through remembrance of Krishna. So, this transformation can happen to people who may be from backgrounds, which may be much more problematic than our background was.
But still, we have to maintain hope. And with hope, how do we maintain hope? First of all, by knowing that Krishna’s love for us is always there. And by associating with devotees who offer us encouragement, not those who offer us judgement.
If we associate with like-minded devotees who offer us encouragement, then we can be hopeful and with that hopefulness we practise, sooner or later, whatever obstacles are there in our devotional practise, they will be overcome and we will attain Krishna. So, I’ll summarise what I spoke today. So, I spoke primarily about how the mind messes our relationships.
And in that, today I talked about how based on the kind of mind we have, we all get attracted to certain things or we compulsively need certain things. So, in the western culture, people are very attached to dogs. Now, that attachment might seem to an irrational degree, but that is because there is a profound lack of trust in human relationships.
And, so that is what they need to go through life. Because, the support system of normal human relationships, which has been there in human society throughout, that is lacking for them. So, rather than judging them and condemning them as attached, we have to understand where they are coming from.
So, humility means to acknowledge the complexity of reality. So, when people are profoundly lonely, incapable of trusting, then whatever gives them some solace, they will hold on to that desperately. So, I talked about a devotee using a dog for an attack on freaks or the only person, only living being, which someone can trust.
So, that is a vital painkiller that they need based on the pain that they are having, based on the background that they are coming from. So, if we don’t know the background, if we don’t know the pain that they are going through, then we don’t feel. What is the need of this painkiller? So, the important thing is not to not take the painkiller.
The important thing is to do what it takes to take the medicine. The medicine is to practise Krishna Bhakti. And whatever material situation we are in, we all may need certain material facilities, material things, so that we can practise Bhakti.
So, if that’s what somebody needs, somebody’s body is heat sensitive and they need a fan, okay, take a fan and focus on remembering Krishna. So, rather than, one extreme is to say that the painkiller alone will solve the problem and just the material thing is enough. That’s wrong.
The other thing is, any material, any painkiller, that is a sign of weakness. Every material thing you have to give up so that you can practise Bhakti. No.
Whatever people need based on their situation, that is a painkiller, let them take that so that they can practise Bhakti. So, the real thing is to connect with Krishna. So, renunciation is what enables us to do without painkillers, without material facilities, without certain material things.
But, different people may have different levels of renunciation based on their past karma. So, some of us may get renunciation boosted up by our practise of Bhakti, but whether that will happen, how much that will happen, that can vary from person to person. Just as a non-intellectual may not become an intellectual by the practise of Bhakti, similarly, a non-renounced person may not necessarily become renounced by the practise of Bhakti.
So, the important thing is, not how intellectual one is, the important thing is how devoted one is. Similarly, the important thing is not how renounced one is, the important thing is how devoted one is. So, if the renunciation is deficient, that means by the past karma or whatever, that is not there.
So, the person needs a little more painkiller. That’s okay. So, we shouldn’t define our devotion by what we are able to give up, but by how we are able to connect with Krishna.
Based on our past conditioning, the spikes may come up in our consciousness in terms of worldly desires. Rather than beating ourselves up when we succumb to those spikes, we can focus on what we do in between. The mind is like a criminal who makes us do wrong and then it becomes like a judge who condemns us for doing wrong.
So, we have to just stop being conscious of the mind and become conscious of Krishna. Even if we are fallen, still Krishna’s love for us remains unchanging. He loves us, not first on who we are, but on who He is.
So, we focus on Krishna’s love and always maintain hope. Trying to practise bhakti even amidst our conditionings. And we get this hope.
The greatest loss is the loss of hope. We get hope by looking at Krishna and looking at devotees who offer us encouragement, not judgement. And bhakti does transform hearts.
Our own hearts have been transformed in many ways. But if some condition is not getting transformed, rather than getting worried about that, just focus on practising bhakti. This young man was initially suicidal because of a breakup but then became more intensely spiritual.
So, that way bhakti can redirect our default instincts so that instead of taking shelter of unhealthy things, we take shelter of the healthiest reality, Krishna and thus become elevated. Thank you very much. Are there any questions or comments? There are a couple of them which are not there now.
It’s mainly published by some outside publishers. This one, Demystifying Reincarnation. So, you’ll find that book over there.
So, probably you have got the books when you came from Bombay. So, there are copies of it available. It’s a very interesting book.
I myself had ordered it over Amazon. It has all cases of reincarnation. So, basically it is very useful for anyone who wants to be convinced about reincarnation or speak about it psychologically in his preaching.
So, we hear about that there are several cases of reincarnation. He has taken, I think, almost a dozen cases recently and analysed each of it very thoroughly in this book. So, it is extremely useful and it has reincarnation cases from all continents in the world and all religious backgrounds, etc.
So, it becomes very interesting to present it to anybody who is preaching. So, you’ll find that book behind there in a table. Right? So, any questions? Now, we can have questions.
So, Mahaprabhu bhakta lana vairagya pradhana. So, Jaya Jagannath says. So, how can you say that renunciation is not important? Yes, if you see the context, we thought later that Mahaprabhu said that.
That was on seeing Raghunath Das Goswami in the Goswami Guru’s image. Did he apply that to Pratap Mudra and say Pratap Mudra has to become like Raghunath Das Goswami? Did he apply that to his Gyanstha devotees? Everybody has to. Pratap Mudra’s renunciation was that he was using the royal resources that he had in Krishna’s service.
Not that he had to give up the royal resources. So, his renunciation is vital. But renunciation is meant as an aid for devotion.
So, it is the defining identity is Mahaprabhu bhakta gana vairagya pradhana. It is not Mahaprabhu vairagya gana. The defining identity is that they are bhaktas.
And among his bhaktas, especially the Goswami’s renunciation was prominent. But their other bhaktas, their renunciation was manifested differently. So, in scripture there are statements and many statements are context sensitive.
So, there is an essential principle that is universal. But the specific application is context sensitive. And not utilising the context can often lead to problems.
May I use the mic? Yes. Sorry for coming late, but it was very enlightening to know the nature of mind. So, wonderfully depicted very graphically wonderful examples.
To really evaluate how mind acts. So, similar talk was given by Jata Bharat to Rahu Gana. In 5th Canto, 11th Chapter.
So, there, towards the conclusion, he speaks, you know, what is the solution. So, there he speaks about jahirvelikam svayamatma-moksham. So, there he speaks, gurao harer charanam upasanastram.
So, how we understand this? Because what we understood here is that we understand nature of our own mind. But, what here he mentioned is the best method to control mind is just guru harer charanam upasanastram. Following the instructions and so on.
So, how to properly see this context? Because, that is that is given by Jata Bharat. Second was about the definition of renunciation. Because your humility definition was very ecstatic to know.
I am excited to know what is definition of renunciation. So, Jata Bharat says that the best way to control the mind is by engaging ourselves in the service of Guru and Krishna. Yes, that is true.
But, how do we serve Guru and Krishna? There is a disciple of Shri Prabhupadi Shankar, whom I met when I was in Alachua. So, he had been in London. And, so, when he was in London, different devotees were coming.
And, they were from Germany, from Poland, from France. They were reporting about how the preaching was going on. So, then he felt that everybody has some service for Prabhupada.
What is my service for Prabhupada? So, he asked Prabhupada, Prabhupada, what can I do for you? Prabhupada asked him, what do you want to do for Krishna? He said, no, what do you want me to do? Prabhupada asked him, what do you want to do for Krishna? He said, no, Prabhupada, whatever you tell, I will do. Prabhupada said, understand our philosophy properly. He said, find out what you like to do and do it for Krishna.
So, now, what it means is, so, then he thought of it. He said, I never thought like this. He thought for a few days.
And, he came back after a few days. He said, Prabhupada, I want to make this, we may get this mudangal from India. They are, they often break.
It is difficult to get new ones. He said, I will get, I will make mudangals using material from the west and we will use it. So, Prabhupada said, very good.
He said, your western godbrothers are very passionate. Make the mudangal in such a way that even if they throw it down, it will not break. Laughter.
So, the point is, that’s how he did a lifelong service of making mudangal and other things using western local materials. The point is, that, through, life is a very long journey. And, throughout our life, we may or may not have a spiritual guide always telling us, do this, don’t do this.
Ultimately, we have to understand, our spiritual advancement is our responsibility. At death, it is we who have remembered Krishna. Our spiritual master can’t remember Krishna for us.
You know, yes, spiritual master will pray and that’s important for us. But, we have to remember Krishna. And, throughout our life also, it is we who have to live with our mind.
Our spiritual master doesn’t live with our mind. Our spiritual guide doesn’t live with our mind. We live with our mind.
So, following instruction is important. But, one instruction is also that, we serve Krishna lifelong. And, while practising bhakti, it is our responsibility to find out how we can serve Krishna lifelong.
So, while doing whatever services we are told to do, we observe ourselves and find out which service we like to do, which we feel inspired to do, which we can continue doing lifelong, even if nobody is there to push us. Even if nobody is asking, have you done this or not? When are you going to do it? We feel, this is my offering to Krishna. This is not in a letting authority.
But, rather, it’s a part of serving Guru and Krishna that we find out how we can serve Guru and Krishna lifelong. That is also our responsibility. And, if we find that, this is the circle what the mind likes, this is the circle of Krishna bhakti.
We find out something which is at the intersection of those two circles. And there, we can continue serving Krishna lifelong. So, finding that is our responsibility.
And, we do that in a harmonious way, so that we don’t reject or disrupt whatever services we are doing. But, while doing our services, we gravitate towards the service which we can do sustainably lifelong. Any questions? So, when we practise bhakti, all from sadhakas to siddhas, they have their particular spiritual instincts of how they want to serve Krishna.
So, is it that there is something called spiritual instincts? And, how do we know whether our instincts are material or spiritual? See, analysing what is material and what is spiritual can become an exercise in futility. It’s like if somebody cracks a joke in a class, we laugh. We think, is this material sense or is this spiritual? If in the context of philosophy, we laugh.
There is no problem in that. So, we have to see yes, in terms of having time for serving Krishna, having time for directly spiritual activity, they are separate between material and spiritual. But, eventually, we have to find out how can I best serve Krishna? So, Rupa Goswami’s operational principle is yena kena prakaryan manna krishna niveshan.
So, whatever the instinct is, is it material, is it spiritual, is it coming from the soul, is it coming from the mind or body? How do I know that? It’s very difficult to know. But, where something is coming from is not as important as where it is taking us. If that instinct is helping us move towards Krishna, that instinct is helping us to serve Krishna better, then it is important that we take that and we move onwards in our spirituality.
So, rather than worrying about whether instinct is material or spiritual, if we feel inspired to serve Krishna, let’s take that up and continue the service to Krishna. Hare Krishna Guruji. Thank you for the wonderful class.
It shared very wonderful insights on the various aspects of being with mind and also the aspects of unity. I had one question on the understanding of mind which you provided. How mind first incites us into doing some wrong thing and then it’s the mind who takes the role of the judge.
We also learned that intelligence has the capability of providing discriminative power to us. Now, when it comes to the post-judgement being done by the mind, how do we understand that this judgement call which is being made by us is at the platform of mind or at the platform of intelligence? Good question. So, if after doing something wrong, they are judging.
This was bad. I should not have done that. Is that judgement being done by the mind or the intelligence? The intelligence also has the capacity to judge.
Here, again I said, where something is coming from is very difficult to know. Where it is taking us is what is important. So, what is the result? If after that judgement I feel more committed to the practise of bhakti, I am going to practise bhakti more determinedly, that is positive.
If that makes me feel, you know, you have made this mistake so many times and again you made it, this simply proves that you are perfect. You are a fool. You are never only good.
It makes me discouraged. Then that is coming from the mind. So, basically, there is guilt and there is pseudo-guilt.
So, if you consider this is the soul, this is the wrong view, and this is Krishna. So, guilt is meant to come between the soul and the wrong view. You should not do this.
But sometimes the mind is so cunning that it brings something called pseudo-guilt, which comes over here, in between the soul and Krishna. And you are so hopeless. You have no hope.
So, if the result of whatever, there has to be definitely a certain level of self-recrimination. To not feel bad on doing bad is very bad. You should feel bad.
If I have done something wrong, that bad feeling is like an inner protector for this. I should not do this. So, it is important.
But what is the result of that bad feeling? So, if it is making me more enthused in my practise of Krishna Bhakti, then we can say it is coming from the intelligence. But more than that, instead of going where is it coming from, most important is where is it making me. Is it making me more enthused in my practise of Krishna Bhakti or is it making me disenthused? That is the basis for this act.
Thank you very much. Do any of the Matajis have any questions? In the American temples, we have to have one question from the road and one from the Matajis. It is always like that.
Any of them have questions? Yes. Thank you very much. I have heard a lot of your lectures and this one, like all of them, although I have heard for a very short time, was very inspiring.
Thank you very much. So, Pramodji, you spoke about every person has his or her own mind and mindset. So, talking about Vyasakasha, it is two completely different minds or mindsets based on their upbringing, background, their level of advancement in Krishna Consciousness who are coming together and we want to serve in this mission of Sri Lanka.
Over the years, we may be externally practising bhakti together chanting all the rounds or whatever. But still, our mindset, it is difficult to change so easily. Of course, we try to take care of our anarthas and all that.
But as respectable devotees and spiritual brothers and sisters, how should the husband and wife keep this aspect in mind that although he is my husband or she is my wife, she may have his or he may have his or her own mindset and own capacity to advance. What happens is we keep judging and expecting from each other based on our level of judgement or our mindset, our nature and which many a times spoils the relationship and it leads to quarrels, misunderstandings and so on. So, how should we try to keep this in mind and still in a loving and Krishna conscious way, keep doing bhakti together? So, if a married couple is going to serve Krishna together, they have their own mindsets and each person, each spouse expects from the other based on their situation not the other situation.
So, how can we adjust and practise bhakti together? If we learn to see that it is not necessary that our, the success of our spirituality, our bhakti is not necessarily reflected in someone else’s spiritual advancement. What happens when we are practising bhakti, just like in material life, if a relationship breaks up, it is not that just that person has gone away, but people feel my own self-worth is challenged. Is it that I am lovable? Is it I am worthy? And that causes insecurity.
So, that same mentality of projecting other’s actions on our self-worth, we apply sometimes in our spiritual life. That means, if my spouse is becoming serious, that means I am a good devotee. And if my spouse is not becoming serious, that means I am not a good devotee.
So now, it may be that there is always room for every one of us to improve in our practise of bhakti. But, it is not necessary that one’s spiritual advancement determines whether the other person becomes a devotee or not. We have many spiritual masters whose disciples fell off.
We have Advaitacharya, his lord himself, his son became a Mayavadi. So, now, we do want our loved ones, whether it is spouses or children or whoever, they all want to practise bhakti. But, we have to see that I have my relationship with Krishna, I have my relationship with this person and this person has their relationship with Krishna.
So, my relationship with Krishna is not necessarily determined by my relationship over here. So, how this person advances or not, that is not necessarily, it is possibly, but not necessarily a reflection of our Krishna bhakti. So, once we are secure that irrespective of what anyone else does, I can still practise bhakti, I can still advance in Krishna bhakti.
So, we become secure primarily through our relationship with Krishna. So, if we are insecure, then insecurity manifests as neediness, as an excessively demanding nature. Do this, don’t do this, why do you like this, why do you like that? If we are secure in our relationship with Krishna and then we see, okay, this person is in this situation, how can I help this person come closer to Krishna? So, Prabhupada, in his song, Malkine Bhagavad Dharma, there he is praying, Prabhupada is praying to Krishna, Krishna, please make my words understandable to them.
Prabhupada is a pure devotee. But even he is saying, they have their own minds. They have their own minds, they are covered by passion and ignorance.
They cannot understand Krishna bhakti. Please, give me the words by which I can make them understand. He says, tomara ichha is sab hoye sab mayavash, tomara ichha is nasha mayavaraparash.
Prabhupada, Mahabhagavad, he is expressing deference to Krishna’s will. Krishna, if it is your will, then they will become free from all. Please, make me an instrument.
So, quite often, a lot of problem comes in our relationships, when we start thinking that we are the cause of someone’s devotion. We are not the cause, we are the instrument. And it’s Krishna who is acting through us.
And sometimes, Krishna may act through someone else. When in my early days, I had asked Jaydev Maharaj, how can I preach to my parents? So, Jaydev Maharaj told me, by letting anyone except you preach to your parents. And as soon as I stopped trying to push my parents, my parents connected to other devotees and they are favourable now.
So, what happens is, sometimes the dynamic in our relationship can affect their perception of Krishna Bhakti when it comes through us. So, we can try to give Krishna Bhakti, but we have to see that we are simply the instruments. And sometimes, Krishna may choose to use some other instrument to give them Krishna.
So, we focus on how we can serve Krishna best in our relationship with Krishna. And what we can do best in this relationship. So, we would like to help the other person to come closer to Krishna.
But we focus on, I am a servant of Krishna. And sometimes, this is a very important point you often don’t understand. If we have only an external parameter of success.
Did my spouse become a devotee or not? Did my child become a devotee or not? Actually, that is very nice. That is what we wanted to happen. But our spiritual advancement is determined not by the result but by the endeavour.
Karmandeva Adhika Rashtriya Maa Puneeshu Pudacharya. So, sometimes, if we have a non-devotee spouse and if we learn to live congenially, trying to develop a service attitude in that relationship, serve in a way that we maintain our spiritual principles at the same time maintain that relationship. That may require us to develop more humility, more tolerance, more sensitivity, more understanding nature than what if the spouse had been a devotee.
And it may well work out that internally being with a non-devotee spouse and being forced to develop more humility and tolerance may lead to our more spiritual advancement than being with a devotee spouse with whom we are practising bhakti. Externally, if there is a devotee spouse, we may go to temple together, we may go to yatras together. External things may be easier.
And external activities are also important. But, in situations when the externals are not working out, we shouldn’t think that bhakti itself can’t work out. Bhakti is not just about external.
Externals are important. We need regular external connection with Krishna also. But, rather than thinking that my spiritual growth is dependent on whether this person moves from here to here.
If you think that even if this person is here, by developing a service attitude while this person is here, I can make spiritual advancement also, even now. So, if we have that attitude, then the expectation from that relationship will go down for us and the contribution will increase. And when that happens, that changes people’s hearts.
And they will also become serious about bhakti. So, we don’t have to base our spiritual advancement on other’s spiritual advancement. We can base it on the expectation of their transformation.
Naturally, we would want that. But, we focus on how we are contributing to Krishna. If we are contributing consistently, then we are growing spiritually.
Irrespective of whether the other person is growing or not. So, the key thing in our devotional growth through any relationship is that in that relationship, we act in a way that we please Krishna. Now, pleasing Krishna means what? It can mean different things in different situations.
It can mean, okay, I go to a temple and I practise bhakti. It can also mean that I do whatever is required in the relationship responsibly so that this person becomes more favourably inclined towards Krishna. So, if we have this attitude that sometimes we can serve Krishna with the other person.
Sometimes we can serve Krishna through the other person. Sometimes we can serve Krishna in spite of the other person. So, if we reduce bhakti to only one thing, that I have to serve only with this person, then I am practising bhakti.
Sometimes we have to serve in spite of the other person. But sometimes it may also be through the other person. And that means that person, how he is, how she is, whatever, if I act in a responsible way.
See, in our… I have a whole seminar on this, but I’ll just briefly mention. What happens is, in spiritual life, there is sadhana, there is siddhanta, there is seva, there is sadhacharya. Siddhanta is our philosophical understanding.
Sadhana is our chanting, adhiti worship, what we do. Seva is what we come in the temple and practise. Sadhacharya is how we behave.
The world doesn’t really care what our siddhana, sadhana, seva are. Okay, what you believe in, how many rounds you chant, whether you fast on Ekadashi, why do I care for it? You come to the temple and do, I make so many garlands, I cook this, okay, so what? What the world will see is how are sadhacharyas. Now, we often reduce sadhacharyas into following four regular principles.
That’s very important. But sadhacharya has a whole lot of other aspects to it. There is sensitivity, there is humility, there is tolerance, there is understanding, there is helpfulness, basic human kindness.
So, ideally speaking, our siddhanta, seva, sadhana should reflect in our sadhacharya. And if that is happening, then that sadhacharya will transform people’s hearts much more than our siddhanta, seva, sadhana. So, when Sri Prabhupada was asked, how do we know you are disciples? Prabhupada said, they are perfect gentlemen.
Perfect ladies, perfect gentlemen. Now, what do we mean by perfect gentlemen? They behave in a culture dignified, proper way. Prabhupada could have said, my followers, they follow four regular principles, they chant sixteen rounds, they are always remembering Krishna.
He was speaking to an outside person who was interviewing him. What will they understand that? They will understand how you behave. So, Prabhupada wanted that we are perfect gentlemen.
So, being a perfect gentleman sometimes means we take care of the human needs of others. Without necessarily superimposing our spirituality in that relationship. Just take care of the human needs and they will see that we are spiritual and they will become more spiritual.
So, once the devotees were staying in an apartment, like a two apartment complex. On the other side, there was an old lady staying. And this old lady was very upset.
These young people, hippies, they are noisy, they are messy. And she was complaining to the local municipal authorities and the original had a lot of trouble. And anybody who troubles devotees, devotees are telling, this is a demon, a demoniac person.
So, they told Prabhupada. Prabhupada, this woman is doing like this. So, Prabhupada had gone for a morning walk, he told him.
And Prabhupada came back and instead of going to the temple, he just went to that woman’s, elderly woman’s place. And he greeted her. And Prabhupada, in America, when he would greet people, he would not greet Hare Krishna.
He would say, good morning. What will they understand Hare Krishna? Good morning. So, Prabhupada greeted her and talked with her.
And it was typical old man talk. What does your daughter do? Where is your son? What were you doing in the past? Almost half an hour, Prabhupada was talking. And devotees were thinking, Prabhupada will not talk about Krishna.
Prabhupada will not talk about Krishna. Prabhupada did not mention one word about Krishna. And then, after that, when they coming back, the devotees didn’t want to question Prabhupada, but the question was there on their face.
Prabhupada, why don’t you talk about Krishna? That’s what they were all thinking. Prabhupada says, sometimes, old people feel lonely. And because of their loneliness, they become irritated.
So, now, after Prabhupada left, this old woman said, your Swamiji is so nice. And she became very friendly and helpful afterwards. So, without speaking about Krishna, Prabhupada brought her closer to Krishna.
So, what we have to do is, sometimes, the best way to nourish people spiritually is by catering to their human needs. Catering to the human need of loneliness. Companies overcome, deal with that.
So, sometimes, we simply think of the human needs of people as Maya. It’s not connected with Krishna, it is Maya. It’s not like that.
Every relationship has some basic human needs. And when we take care of those human needs, people become more receptive spiritually. So, when we see that, even if I can’t serve Krishna with this person, I can serve Krishna through this person.
That means, I can serve Krishna by taking care of the human needs of this person in this relationship. Then, we can advance from wherever we are towards Krishna. Thank you very much.
Shall we stop now? There are a lot of questions, but I don’t think we have time. So, who is in charge? Those who are in charge have already gone. Yes.
So, who has a burning question? Okay, let’s have a chat. What is the question? Shobha says that all this is a movement for that. But in the other side, he says, what is the use of that if his mind is not controlled? Okay.
So, the verse is saying that the purpose of doing all religious and charity activities is to control the mind. And if the mind is not controlled, then what is the use of all this? So, is this contradictory? It’s not contradictory, it’s rhetorical. It’s rhetorical means that sometimes, we may give that this is the purpose of doing this.
Say for example, if I am driving a car. The purpose of driving a car is to get to a destination. But if you are driving and not getting to the destination, then what is the use of getting to the destination? What is the use of driving? So, if I am driving the car with the brakes pressed and the wheels are moving, but the car is not moving anywhere.
So, like that, what is being said over here is all these should lead to control of the mind. And if these are not leading to control of the mind, then something is wrong. We are missing out on something.
If sometimes, our practise of bhakti makes us more self-righteous, more short-tempered and judgemental about others, more condemning towards others, then something is wrong. Our practise of bhakti, instead of taking us closer to Krishna, is simply making us more proud. See, our spiritual practises, they are meant to help us look up undistracted towards Krishna.
But sometimes, what may happen is, because of our spiritual practises, we become proud and we look down at everyone else. We are so attached. We are useless.
So, if that judgmentality comes out, we snap at people, we shout at people, we label people, we condemn people, and then, in a sense, that is our mind controlling us. We are self-righteous thinking, I am so pure and spiritual and you are so important. But it’s our mind taking us for a ride.
So, if the first is, do all this for this. But if you are doing this and this is not happening, then that means you have to do some introspection. Something is going wrong.
See, the mind can be so cunning that the mind can take control of the activities meant to control the mind. The mind can take control of the activities meant to control the mind. What does this mean? Say, I fast on Ekadashi.
The purpose of fasting is to decrease my mental attachment so that I can focus on Krishna. But if I fast on Ekadashi and then I see who is eating what. Such a sense gratifier.
Useless. Then what am I doing? My body is fasting but my ego is feasting. And this is not leading to my spiritual growth at all.
So, the mind earlier was driving me towards sense gratification through lust or greed or whatever. And now it is driving me through to multiple consciousness through ego, through pride, through arrogance. The mind can take control of the activities meant to control the mind.
So, we want self-control so that we can focus on the Supreme Self. But sometimes, self-control can fuel the illusion that the self is the controlled. Self-control.
Because I am so self-controlled. So, why are you so attached? You should do what I am telling. You should do what I am saying.
And if you don’t do it, I get angry with you. So, if self-control fuels the illusion that the self is the controlled, then that self-control is not taking me closer to Krishna. That self-control is only making me more judgemental about others.
So, that’s why it is said that if in this way we are doing all these activities, I am fasting, but still my mind is becoming more self-righteous and angry, then what is the use of such fasting? I have to make sure, do this activity and do this activity in a way that this purpose of getting the mind calm and focused on Krishna is served. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
This is Chaitanya Charan Prabhu for giving wonderful class.