What science can tell us about ourselves – and what it can’t

[Talk at North Florida State University, Jacksonville, USA]

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This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
I’m happy to be here amongst all of you. And wish you a very happy birthday. Special way to celebrate a birthday.
So, I’ll speak about what science can tell us about ourselves and what it can’t. In three parts. I’ll start from the way society is currently shaping.
And what we can observe. And then I’ll talk something about the scope of science. And then what lies beyond science.
So, today we have a phenomenal amount of facility and comfort available to us. In fact, common people today have comforts that were unattainable for even kings a few hundred years ago. Air conditioning is one simple example.
And in many ways our life has become much more convenient than in the past. And yet, we see that the number of people who are having mental health problems are far greater than before. People who are depressed, people who are suicidal, people who are addicted.
It’s said that on average one out of every ten persons in the world will suffer from clinical depression during the course of their lives. One out of every five persons will, during the course of their lives, contemplate suicide. So, on average, one person commits suicide every 40 seconds.
So, if we have a one hour talk, almost 80 to 100 people commit suicide during the course of that talk. We don’t have very well documented statistics for what happened in the past. But, even whatever statistics we do have, this level of problems were not there.
There have been other kinds of problems. Technology has, at one level, transformed our life in a very powerful way in terms of making things easier at the physical level. Today we can just press a few buttons and talk with anyone from any part of the world.
Just press a few buttons and get any information from any part of the world. And yet, while we are very well connected and in control of things externally, we seem to be very disconnected internally and not in control of our own thoughts and emotions. So, especially when people become addicted to something, it’s as if there’s something inside us that is attacking us.
Something inside us is sabotaging us, making us act in ways that are not only against our best interests, they’re even for our worst interests. That is, worst for us, we sometimes do it. So, certainly, science has also studied the mind, psychology, psychiatry.
And there are attempts to deal with the epidemic of mental health problems also. The medicine that is shown the most is basically antidepressants, tranquilizers, at the highest sales on over-the-counter medicines. So, there is this paradox that we are progressing, and yet we are not progressing towards happiness.
We are progressing towards comfort, but not towards happiness. If we consider what determines our feelings, why is it that being comfortable at the external level is not translating into happiness at the inner level? So, where do our feelings come from? What exactly is happiness? And why does that seem to elude us? There are two broad senses in which the word happiness is used. One is happiness as sensation.
Something which to our senses feels good. We eat something delicious, we see something attractive. So, the sensations and feelings that come associated with happiness associated with those sensations, they are often considered to be happiness.
So, we go to a party and we dance and drink, and we feel good. We eat something delicious, we feel good. This is the sense in which the word happiness is frequently used.
And if we see at the level of sensations, the pleasurable sensations available to us have increased substantially. So, if you want to hear something nice, in the past you would have had to go to some place where some musical concert was going on. And you wouldn’t even know how good those people would be.
But now we can get the best musicians, they may perform wherever. And through the cloud, through our devices, we can hear that. If you want to eat something good, now we have supermarkets which sell so many good things.
You can buy whatever you want, you can eat it. Through all of technology, sensations, pleasurable sensations are being available to us more and more. And yet, if we consider that sensations are what happiness is, then why is it that the increase of pleasant sensations has not led to the increase of happiness? We see that through technology we are also shielded from unpleasant sensations.
If it’s too cold, we can have heat. If it’s too hot, we can have cold. So, many of the unpleasant sensations are minimized and many pleasant sensations are made accessible to us through technology.
So, sensation as happiness is one aspect of it, one conception of happiness. But that doesn’t translate into enduring or lasting happiness. There is happiness which is used in an entirely different sense, which we could say broadly as the happiness that comes from contribution or absorption.
Sensation is what we experience. See, touch, hear. But sometimes when we are absorbed in doing something, especially if we are absorbed in a constructive, contributive sense, in doing something which is bigger than ourselves, in some cause, in some purpose, which is bigger than ourselves, that gives us happiness of a different quality.
And quite often, seeking happiness through contribution and absorption puts us in situations where we have to encounter unpleasant sensations. Say, some of you mentioned that you are writers or journalists. One of my main engagements is also writing.
I love writing. And yet, there are times when I hate writing. What am I doing sitting in front of a computer? There is an author who said that writing is so easy.
You sit in front of a computer till drops of blood appear on your forehead. So, the ideas don’t come. Sometimes you get writer’s block.
And nothing seems to move forward. And this applies in writing. Whatever field of life we are working in, if we are working in a committed way, there are times when we just don’t feel like doing anything.
And yet, if we persevere through that, at the end of it, we feel, this was wonderful. I was able to do something worthwhile. I was able to make some contribution.
It was absorbed in something. So, this is happiness of a different quality. Say, consider, when somebody becomes a parent, somebody becomes a mother.
Then, at that time, if you consider happiness at the level of sensation, then, during delivery, there is a lot of pain. When the baby is dimming on the mother’s milk, often there is pain. Baby wakes up at night and starts crying.
That’s not always pleasant. When the mother sees the child, she may feel great love for the child. But when the child suddenly wakes up at night, babies are like alarm clocks that go off arbitrarily.
And then you can’t switch them off also. But then, there is great satisfaction in bringing a new life into the world, in caring for a new life. As we grow up, we all have within us a need to nurture, to care for someone else, to help them grow up.
And although there are times when there are unpleasant sensations over there, but there is a higher satisfaction. So, there is satisfaction through sensation and there is satisfaction through contribution and absorption. And the satisfaction or happiness that comes through contribution and absorption, that is a higher quality of happiness.
And that is what brings meaning and a deep level of purpose and joy to our lives. If I just keep looking for sensations, then, eventually, we feel our life becoming pointless as we keep chasing more and more sensations. If sensations alone comprise happiness, then, say, people who take drugs should be the happiest people in the world.
Taking drugs makes you feel high. Whenever you want to feel high, take drugs. But it’s not that they feel high when they take drugs, but after that, they feel low and they feel lower than usual.
And again, they have to take drugs. So, the pursuit of sensations for pleasure is often the cause of great trouble. In fact, if we keep doing whatever we like, then, we end up disliking ourselves.
If we keep doing whatever we like, we end up disliking ourselves. If, as students, somebody says, I want to become an engineer, and then, two, three months one studies engineering, this is too boring. Then, okay, I’ll study arts, go into arts.
It’s too abstract. Then, okay, I’ll study economics. Study economics for some time.
This is too mundane. And then, if one just keeps changing one subject and doesn’t have any focus, after four, three, four years, what do I do with my life? The best years of time when I could be getting a degree is gone. So, if we just keep cheesing sensations or, at a simpler level, if you’re, say, studying for exam, and then, say, suddenly you’re studying on a computer and a link pops up.
Hey, let me read this. It seems interesting. And then, another link pops up.
If we keep reading, watching, whatever we like on the computer, and all night we spend like that, and next morning is the exam, we’re not prepared for it. We end up beating ourselves up. What did I do? If we keep doing whatever we like, it’s not that we should do what we don’t like.
That’s not the point. If we’re determined only by whatever we like, we can’t stay committed to anything. With respect to eating, if we keep eating whatever we like, then, over a period of time, we will end up eating unhealthy foods, which will either spoil our health, make us excessively obese, or whatever.
So, in general, if we just keep pursuing sensations that feel good, not only don’t we actually get real happiness, but that makes us feel bad about ourselves. If we just keep pursuing relationships casually, then eventually, we may know a lot of people superficially, but there’s no heart-to-heart connection. And then we feel lonely, we feel unloved, we feel sometimes not just unloved, but even unlovable.
And it can lead to a lot of self-esteem issues. So, the pursuit of happiness as sensations, it ends up giving us more and more unpleasant sensations. And it leads to distress, not just externally, in terms of not getting the pleasure, because the sensations that do give us pleasure sometimes they stop giving us pleasure.
And then you want more sensations. If somebody takes drugs, initially they take a little, but next time to get the same high, they have to take more dosage, and more dosage. The same dosage doesn’t give that level of sensations.
So, in this way, the pleasure that comes from sensations, it frustrates us. So, I talk about three reasons why it frustrates us. First is because it is superficial, it doesn’t really satisfy us.
Second is that it makes us feel worthless, because we can’t commit to anything. And thirdly, because the sensations themselves stop giving that pleasure. The pleasure keeps decreasing.
Now, the course of life is such that we all will have to encounter unpleasant sensations at some time or the other. And the more we have control externally, through science, through technology, by which we can avoid unpleasant sensations, the more our capacity to tolerate unpleasant sensations goes down. The more we get in control of external situations, the more we come to think that we can control everything.
And when we are not able to control things, that becomes an unbearable feeling. So, if we are seeking, say, happiness through contribution and absorption, to do anything worthwhile, we have to commit ourselves. And commitment means a willingness to tolerate unpleasant sensations.
If I’m going to sit and write, if I’m going to sit and compose music, if I’m going to sit and take care of someone, I’ll have to tolerate difficulties at some times. But if I don’t have the capacity to tolerate, then just give up, quit, and move to something else. So then, we can’t focus and contribute and get absorbed in anything.
So, at a practical level, science can increase our access to sensations, to pleasant sensations. Science, through the technology that it provides, it can decrease the number of unpleasant sensations that come upon us. But science itself cannot give us the motivation or the inspiration to commit to a particular cause.
That is something that has to come from inside. Yes, by hearing about how some scientist is committed to some cause, that may give us inspiration. He may fail in developing an electric bulb for hundreds and hundreds of times and finally succeed.
So, his commitment may give us inspiration. Now, his commitment is something which was in him as he tried to inquire, as he tried to learn. That commitment itself is not something which is provided by technology.
That commitment is something which has to come within the individual. That sense of urgency, sense of purpose, where does it come from? A Nobel laureate scientist, Steven Weinberg said that the more we study the universe, the more it seems pointless. The more we study the universe, the more it seems pointless.
Pointless means the whole idea that things exist for no ultimate purpose. They just somehow came into existence. Some atheistic scientists use the word lucky accident.
We are all just products of a lucky accident of the universe. And normally lucky accidents just lead to less destruction or no destruction. Lucky accidents don’t lead to construction.
It doesn’t happen that I had a bike that was a lucky accident and the bike became a car. The bike was a lucky accident. It didn’t get damaged.
So, the point is not to contest the knowledge acquiring capacity of science. The point is the extrapolation from what science can know. Science approaches reality using a process which can be called broadly as methodological naturalism.
Methodological naturalism means that science looks for natural explanations for natural phenomena. Natural explanations for natural phenomena. So, when I had gone to Cambridge to speak on science and spirituality there, we passed by the tree where Newton was said to have seen the fruit falling.
So, when Newton saw the fruit falling and he asked the question, what made this fruit fall? That’s his brilliance that he came up from such a commonplace observation to an understanding of theory of gravity. At the same time, his question, what made this fruit fall, rests on a presumption that fruits don’t just fall by chance, that there is some order in nature. Now, where did that order come from? Where did that order come from by which things happen? So, Newton presumed the existence of that order and then he came up with a mathematical formulation to explain that order.
But, the source of that order itself is something which is unknown. Science can function only because there is some order in nature. In fact, all of science, we could say, is a search for meaning.
Meaning means we try to discern some order in what is happening. Okay, what made this fruit fall? Oh, it’s because there is a principle of gravity. So, why is it that science which is, based on the presumption of order, is a rational search for meaning? Why do things happen the way they happen? What makes them happen the way they happen? So, why is it that this very quest for knowledge is ending up leading to the idea that life itself is meaningless? That life itself is purposeless? So, when this happens, life is seen to have no ultimate purpose.
That we just are a bag of protoplasm that somehow came alive and we’ll be alive for some time and then we’ll die and it’s over. So, life becomes basic, human life becomes an inhuman chase from nowhere to nowhere. In between we try to grab as many toys as possible.
So, when there is no ultimate purpose to life, then we start, the only purpose of life becomes seeking as many pleasant sensations as possible. In this life, how many good things, good feeling things can I get? Can I enjoy them? So, the idea that, so the point I’m talking about now is there is happiness as sensation, happiness as absorption. And then the scientific world view which if extrapolated to everything, if we say that science itself explains everything, then life itself becomes meaningless.
So, science can explain the natural order of things observing some things, we can find out the causal connections. Why does this happen this way? At the same time, science does not explain why those laws of nature exist in the first place. Laws basically explain the connection between causes and effects.
If this fruit was here, it fell down. What made it fall down? That was the law of gravity. So, laws basically explain the correlations between causes and effects.
But laws don’t explain the existence of themselves in the first place. Why do they exist at all? The laws don’t explain the causes themselves in the first place. The laws don’t explain why the objects on which those causes acted exist in the first place.
So, Newton’s law of gravity cannot explain why Newton himself existed in the first place. It cannot explain why that apple existed in the first place. So, our existence itself, to take a more relatable example, say, there’s a baseball match going on and then a player hits a homerun.
And then the ball comes and hits the ball strongly with the bat and the ball just goes far along the center and everybody cheers. After that, in the interviews there of the player who hit the match-winning stroke, he says, how did you hit this stroke? He says, by the law of gravity. What do you mean by the law of gravity? The law of gravity can explain if the ball had been hit with this much force, it would have gone this much distance.
Hit with this much force, so it went that much distance. So, what the law of gravity explains is this ball was hit at this angle by this bat. That’s why it went this way.
But the inspiration, the conviction, the skill of the player, that is something which is independent of the laws. So, laws explain the correlation between causes and effects. But why do the causes exist in the first place? And why do the objects on which those causes act? That is not explained.
There is a certain amount of presumption of pre-existing order that is required for science to explain it. That pre-existing order is something which points to a higher reality. So, science is very powerful as a tool for acquiring knowledge about the connection between causes and effects.
At the same time, when it comes to ultimate purpose and ultimate meaning, that is where we can’t get knowledge through science. This is not an efficiency of science per se. It is, every scope, every field of knowledge has a particular focus.
Nowadays, we have so much insecurity over relationships. If you want to form a relationship with someone, you want to know is this person really serious? Are they actually what they appear to be? We have different kinds of meters. We have thermometers to measure the temperature.
With all our scientific advancement, can we develop a love-o-meter? Put it on somebody’s heart. Does this person really love me? Measure the love. We can’t make a love-o-meter because love is something which is non-physically emotional.
It can have a physical expression but love itself. But that physical expression can be there even when there is no lovers. Somebody can act as if they are in love.
So, there is, to our very being, love is something which we all long for. Long to love and be loved. That is central to everything that we do.
Scientists, they develop some things because they have love of science. But even with all their love of science, even with all the scientific advancement, can a scientist measure, make a device which can measure how much I love my science? We may compare to something, I am ready to give up my sleep at night, I am ready to give up other things, so that I can do this research. That’s fine.
But that’s not mathematically quantifiable. So, love as an emotion is something which is which is beyond the scope of science to quantify. Certain expressions of that can be measured and analysed.
So, for us, when we want to contribute or we want to become absorbed, what is needed is love. When do we, if somebody really loves writing, then, even if they don’t feel like doing it, so, that love makes them do it. A mother who takes care of the child at one level, the love may express itself as pleasant sensations also.
Oh, when the mother picks up the child, she feels so much love. But it’s not always like that. Instead, if the child wakes up at midnight and starts crying, there is, the sensation is not there, but there is love as a motivation which makes one persevere even when pleasant sensations are not there.
So, this higher dynamic which brings out the deepest motivations within oneself, which enables us, which inspires us to contribute, to become absorbed, this is a whole realm which comes from a life of a higher purpose. And if we have some higher purpose for life, then, no matter how many unpleasant sensations we get, we are ready to accept that. When India fought for its independence from the Britishers, at that time, there was an Indian freedom fighter.
He told his followers, he said that, I will give you freedom, but I want something in exchange. If you want freedom, you will have to give me sweat, toil, blood, and life. And thousands of people rose to his call.
Sweat, toil, blood, life, none of these are pleasant things. But, the inspiration, we want freedom, that inspired them to do that. So, we see in our own lives that there is something within us which pursues something which is beyond the pursuit of pleasant sensations.
Say, if a child is drowning, then somebody who doesn’t even know that child just jumps into that river to save the child. The water may be cold, the water may be deep, and they may experience discomfort, they may experience fear also, what if I drown? But, they are ready to jump into that. There is something higher, something which seeks meaning and value by doing something which, even if it gives unpleasant sensations, we are able to accept it.
When the twin towers were attacked, many of the firefighters who went inside to rescue the people who were trapped inside, they knew that if the towers collapsed, we would die. They were outside safe and yet they went inside. They were obviously not looking for pleasant sensations.
They were looking for something higher. So, for all of us, if we want satisfaction in life, if we want to make some tangible contribution, if we want something which we want to become absorbed in, then, that higher purpose will not be provided simply by a scientific worldview. The scientific worldview can help us make sense of the world as we observe it.
To some extent. But for our place and purpose in this world, that is something which science alone cannot tell us. That is something which is provided to us by spiritual knowledge.
So, what spiritual knowledge tells us is that at our core we are indestructible beings. We are souls who are on a multi-life journey of spiritual evolution. The evolution is in our consciousness.
The evolution is in our capacity to experience reality. So, when a child is born, the child’s capacity to experience reality is simply through I cry and I get something to eat and I go to sleep. When the child starts growing, the child’s consciousness expands.
Initially, the child may not even be aware that there is a person called person who is my mother who loves me. The child is simply there is something which gives me some nice substance and I just suck it and drink it. When the child starts growing, the consciousness expands.
Who is the person who loves me? It’s not just one person. There are other people also who love me. So, this even naturally we see as we grow our consciousness is meant to expand.
Sometimes I say when we are just children our parents give us everything and we enjoy. But as we grow up I understand that my parents are I have to I have to work I have to earn I have to make my own living. So, we start getting we are initially concerned what are my parents providing? But as we grow up we understand that is not the only way life works.
So, our consciousness naturally expands. But unfortunately for some people they may biologically become adults but psychologically they may never grow up. Psychologically they will still just be kids.
what is happening today I will conclude with this point that with the advancement of science and technology our capacity to do things has increased enormously. And if we want to contribute and become absorbed in some higher cause we have enormous amount of facility to do that much more than what we had in the past. But the overall effect of science is felt by most people through technology.
And technology if we are exposed to it fuels the illusion that by getting more and more pleasant sensations and by avoiding unpleasant sensations we can get happiness. But this is a path which leads not to happiness but to frustration. So, the higher purpose to our life where we understand that we are spiritual beings and we are meant to grow spiritually expand our consciousness.
We are chanting this mantra. We are doing the kirtan the musical meditation before we started this talk. So, this is a way in which we communicate with higher reality.
We connect with something bigger than ourselves. That higher reality can be known by different names and different traditions. In this mantra when we chant we refer to that higher reality by the name Krishna, Ram, Hare.
That’s why this Hare Krishna mantra. So, we are communicating with something higher. We are connecting with something higher.
And this also feels good. As I said earlier it’s not that we are not meant to experience pleasant sensations. But that’s not the only purpose of life.
It is as our consciousness evolves we will feel good but we will feel good in a steady way. Not in a way that feels good for some time and after that it stops feeling good. Siddha Bhagavad Gita is an ancient yoga text which explains how we as souls can evolve spiritually.
So, we can expand our consciousness till this consciousness connects with the ultimate reality. And through that connection when we get higher peace when we get higher joy then we can contribute constructively. Whatever talents whatever abilities we have we can use them all constructively when we see them in the light of a higher purpose.
We have an interest in music it’s wonderful. We can sing different kinds of music and they will all give us good sensations. But if we hear spiritual music if we sing spiritual music then that not only gives us pleasant sensations but it also gives us the expansion of our consciousness by which we move towards enduring happiness that is not dependent on sensations.
The Bhagavad Gita says that that is the ultimate happiness which is beyond sensations and that is the enduring happiness which comes because our consciousness becomes connected with higher reality. That is the purpose of yoga that is the purpose of meditation and that actually is the ultimate purpose of life itself. So I’ll summarize what I spoke briefly and then we can have some questions if any of you have any questions.
So I spoke about what science can tell us about ourselves and what it can’t. I started by speaking how today common people have comforts that even kings did not have a few hundred years ago and yet peoples are much more distressed at the mental level than what they were in the past. Suicide, depression, addiction, these are rampant.
So why is this? Then to explain this I talk about what does science provide us? It provides us comforts. Basically it means that if we consider happiness to be through the pursuit of sensations. Science provides us more and more pleasant sensations and decreases unpleasant sensations but equating happiness with sensations leads to three problems.
First is that the sensations themselves they are very superficial. They don’t satisfy us in a deep sense. Second is that as we keep pursuing one sensation, another sensation, another sensation then we end up disliking ourselves because we can’t commit and do anything constructive and lastly the sensations themselves follow the law of diminishing returns where the pleasure from them keeps going down.
So happiness can also be seen as through contribution and through absorption. So if we see this perspective and even something we like to do if I like to write if I like to compose music if I love my child even then there will be some unpleasant sensations which I have to weather by which I can get that sense of contribution and the higher satisfaction. But when we live in a technology centred society where we can remove unpleasant sensations and increase pleasant sensations then our capacity to tolerate unpleasant sensations goes down and that’s why our capacity to move towards contribution and absorption decreases and moreover when did we want to tolerate unpleasant sensations when we have some higher purpose but life itself is divorced of a higher purpose with the scientific world view which is extrapolated to all of reality.
So science explains things by postulating laws but what makes those laws come into existence so the existence of the laws themselves the existence of the objects on which those laws act the existence of the causes which lead to the connection between causes and effects as explained by laws these are all beyond the scientific world view. So this the presence of order in nature the search for meaning in nature is what is explained by a spiritual world view. The spiritual world says that we are souls who are on a multi-life journey of spiritual evolution and the whole purpose of the world is to help us in this evolution of consciousness so that our consciousness connects with ultimate reality and for that purpose we need to redefine happiness as the happiness that comes through contribution and absorption.
So when we work using our talents using our abilities to make a positive contribution with spiritual understanding then even if there are unpleasant sensations we can tolerate them and we can perceive and yes we talked about how mantra meditation singing can give us pleasant sensations also but through this we go to a happiness that is beyond sensations. So the if we just look at the world entirely through the prism of science and the more we make sense of things the more things stop making sense. There is no meaning to life but if we see it from a spiritual world view which includes the order that is revealed by science then we see that there is order at the level of nature but then the deeper order which involves a pursuit of pleasure beyond sensations and then we become absorbed in something bigger than ourselves in the mood of service and contribution then that provides us the highest satisfaction.
Thank you very much. Are there any questions or comments? What do I mean by absorption? I took satisfaction through contribution and absorption together as one unit. By absorption means that there is some higher reality in which we enter and we lose ourselves in it.
Not in the sense of losing our identity but losing our sense of separateness. If we look at sometimes we start reading a book and we get so absorbed in reading that book I lost myself in that book. Now if you’re sitting for a long time reading a book at a physical level you might be not so comfortable.
You might shift. You might stand up and stretch a little bit but our mind is absorbed. So when there is something which raises our consciousness beyond the physical then that leads to a deeper absorption and the absorption in something bigger than ourselves which brings out our best.
We can become absorbed in something bigger than ourselves in various ways but if we are absorbed in something bigger than ourselves which also helps our evolution, our spiritual evolution then that is what will help us to make a contribution. Terrorists can be absorbed in something bigger than themselves. They think they are a part of a group that is going to free the world from infidels but then that is not leading to contribution that is leading to destruction.
Even say some people may be exploited to capitalists who are also absorbed in something bigger So we are talking about absorption absorption can be of various types but the absorption that comes through contribution where we understand that life has a higher purpose and then we contribute in that more. So the sensations and then when we have to use them that requires us to become absorbed going beyond pleasant sensations in the mood of contribution and then we by our constructive contributions we offer our gifts to the divine. Does that answer your question? What did you say? He said now he has 84.
Good one. You talk about happiness being you see multiple realities. Is happiness a byproduct of multiple realities or is it attainable Okay, good question.
Very nice question. So is happiness is the attainment of happiness the reason why we pursue the ultimate reality or is it that we pursue the ultimate reality and happiness comes as a byproduct? It works both ways. The two are not necessarily separated.
If we consider love we all are social creatures. We want to love and be loved. At one level when we want to love, why do we want to love and be loved? We want to be happy by that.
But when we love someone truly selflessly at that time sometimes for the sake of someone who we love we may do something which may not be what we like also. So there is we may seek love as a means to happiness. But when there is love we may even be willing to do something that doesn’t really make us happy at the level of sensations immediately.
But as the relationship deepens that brings us happiness. So we can say happiness is the purpose why we pursue loving relationships. But if there is a loving relationship happiness comes as a by-product we just act in a loving way and we feel that connection we feel that satisfaction.
So similarly for us the search for ultimate reality is is triggered by a search for deeper happiness. We can’t divorce the two. We are all happiness seeking creatures and whatever we seek for at one level or another we are seeking happiness through it.
Even if I do some hard work which does not make me happy but that hard work gives me money which I hope will make me happy. So we are ultimately looking for happiness. So it’s not that the search for happiness itself is something which is contrary to the search for ultimate reality.
But sometimes the search for happiness can take us away from reality. What to speak of ultimate reality even material reality. Sometimes some people may just start taking drugs or drinking too much.
Then they are going into illusory world where the search for happiness takes them away even from material reality. What to speak of ultimate reality. So if we understand that the search for reality and the search for happiness they are ultimately the same search.
The yoga text explains that we are spiritual beings. That we are souls and one of the defining characteristics of the soul is Ananda. The soul is joyful by nature.
Sat, Chit, Ananda. Ananda means happiness. The soul is by nature joyful.
But to the extent the soul identifies with things outside of itself. To that extent its joyfulness gets covered. Just like a child may be sitting comfortably at home.
But if the child is watching a horror movie then as long as the child’s consciousness is caught in the horror movie the child is horrified. Cannot be happy. Even when his comfortable mother is close by.
So as long as our consciousness is captivated by things outside of ourselves. To that extent especially if those are material, sensual things then we become alienated from our own nature. So the search for ultimate reality is what helps us to understand our own nature.
So there is a hole and we are parts of that hole. Just as we are joyful but we are finite units so our capacity to seek happiness on our own is finite. But we are parts of infinite consciousness and that infinite consciousness is the source of infinite happiness.
So we are sparks of spirit and there is a whole spirit. So as sparks of spirit we are finitely joyful. As the whole spirit is infinitely joyful.
So the search for ultimate reality is essentially the search where the finitely joyful soul links with the infinitely joyful supreme soul. And when this link happens then there is joy as a natural result. So rather than seeing the two as separate, the search for pleasure and the search for ultimate reality.
If we ensure that the search for joy doesn’t take us away from the ultimate reality. Rather we use our longing for happiness to pursue the path to ultimate reality and we accept whatever inconveniences or austerities are required for pursuing that ultimate reality. Because as I said, even in a love-loving relationship, sometimes we have to do something which we don’t like to do to deepen that relationship, to please the other person.
So similarly, for pursuing ultimate reality, if we are ready to do some things which don’t seem pleasant to us already, that’s discipline, that’s austerity, then ultimately as we become spiritually aware, the search for reality and the search for happiness will culminate in the same destination, where we will be in the highest reality and we will be also experiencing the highest happiness. Yes, perfect. So, real happiness is found through self-discipline.
Actually, that’s true for any field. If somebody wants to make a move, wants to do some musical concert, do some musical performance, it’s not that just one day they pick up the instrument and go on a stage and start playing. They practice.
So, even for self-expression, they have to practice so that the best self is expressed. If I’m not practicing, when I go on the stage, there will be self-expression, but that will be probably the worst self being expressed, not the best self being expressed. So, discipline is required for any kind of meaningful meaningful achievement.
Just similar, just basically when a player is playing music, when a musician is playing music and they practice, what are they doing basically? There are some, we could say, the right sounds and there are not so right sounds. So, what we are doing is removing the not so right sounds to practice so that the right sounds come out. So, the whole practice of music, we could say, is a practice of purification, purging out the sounds that are not proper so that the proper sounds come out.
Similarly, when we practice discipline on the spiritual part, we as souls are pure. But, there are lot of impressions and contaminations that are there around us and we are purging them so that our natural joyfulness becomes evident. Yeah.
As vision, illusion. So, are the past and future illusion? What about living in the present? Yes, we are definitely meant to live in the present. But, we don’t live for the present.
We live in the present, but we need something higher to live for. Say, let’s take from, living in the present is very important because our mind tends to go off in the past. So, this went wrong, that went wrong.
If only I had done this, if I had done that. We tend to lament about the past or resent about the past and we tend to fantasize and fear about the future. I want this to work out, I want this to work out.
What if that happens, what if that happens? So, in this way, when the mind goes into the past or the future, we cannot do anything construct. So, we can’t even experience life as it is. We experience life through the filter of the mind which is going here and there.
And, that’s why living in the present is important because the present is where we can make any change, any constructive change, where we can make some contribution. So, the past is a reality in the sense that it happened. What is the illusion is thinking is just living in the past and resenting the past or even repenting the past in a self-flagellating way, just beating oneself up.
Why did I do that? Why did I do that? The past is not an illusion because the past did happen. But, our obsession with the past puts us in illusion. Similarly, the future is not an illusion in the sense that the future is going to happen and when it happens, it is going to be reality.
But, our obsession with the future can also put us in illusion. You can go into daydreaming, you can go into worrying, unnecessary. There is an author who said, most of our life is filled with frightening experiences, most of which never happen.
So, that’s because, what if this goes wrong, this goes wrong, we keep worrying. So, obsession with the past or the future puts us in illusion. So, we do want to live in the present.
But, many times, the present may not be pleasant. If somebody is sick, then, they are in pain and they are on a bed and they can’t do anything. They have to accept that but they don’t live for the present at that time.
They live for a future where they will be healthier. So, sometimes the present may be so unpleasant that just living in the present may be unbearable. So, what enables one to live in the present is the hope that the future will be better.
Now, if one is not doing what is required in the present, if somebody is not taking the medicines at all and is thinking in the future I will be healthy, that’s not going to work. So, we have to do what we need to do in the present. So, we live in the present but we need to live for something more than the present.
If I am studying for getting a degree, I have to read the book that I am reading right now. So, I have to live in the present. But, the purpose that we have, it extends beyond the present.
So, the present is one moment, but our life is a continuity and our purpose is what brings continuity to all the present moments. Otherwise, each present moment will be fragmented and disconnected. Okay, I do one thing now, I do second thing then, I do third thing there.
But how are they all united? They are united by the purpose that I have. So, this pursuit of purpose is what animates and unifies the present that we are going through. And, so, we live for, from the spiritual wisdom perspective, we want to live in the present, but we live for the ultimate reality.
We live to seek the ultimate reality, to love the ultimate reality, and to contribute in a mode of service to the ultimate reality. So, I have been given some talents. So, right now, if I am learning to write, I may be an unknown writer right now, and I would like to develop my talents and I would like to become a better writer in future.
But now, right now, all that I have to do is, okay, let me get this word right, let me get this sentence right. So, I live in the present, but then there is a higher vision, a higher purpose, which transcends the present. If each sentence that I write, each word that I get, if I get it right, then eventually I will become a better writer and I will be able to make a contribution.
So, we live in the present, but we live for something bigger than the present, and what that bigger is, that we get the fullest understanding through spiritual knowledge. So, as I said, the Bhagavad Gita explains that there is an ultimate reality, which is known by different names and different traditions, which is known by Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita, that is a source of love, there is a reservoir of love. So, we live for the purpose of loving the ultimate reality and experiencing the love of the ultimate reality, and we do that through what we can contribute in the present.
So, I use my talents in a mood of loving service in the present, but even if in the present I don’t get the result, if I’m living for the ultimate reality, then through that mood of service, I’m connecting with the ultimate reality. Then, the process becomes joyful in itself, because it connects us with some higher reality, because the present connects me with the present. Living in the present connects me with the present, but the present is there one moment, it is gone.
So, what is there next after that? The present is a means by which we connect with the ultimate reality, and each present becomes a new opportunity to connect with the ultimate reality, and thus, the present becomes a way to a fulfilling life. One more question. Sure.
You mentioned us as pieces and parts, and can you between the authentic connections as far as contribution and absorption from retail benefits of the authentic living connection between us and parts to achieve a better connection with ultimate reality? Yeah. So, how can authentic connection between the parts help us better connect with the ultimate reality also? Yeah. I use the word parts, not pieces, because pieces sounds more fragmented and disoriented.
Parts is something which is connected with the whole. So, we have a vertical relationship with the whole, and we have horizontal relationships in the world. And the ideal situation is where the horizontal and the vertical relationships work symbiotically.
That means that our vertical relationship, the devotional connection that we have through our spiritual practices, through our meditation, through our prayer, through our study of spiritual wisdom texts, that gives us maturity in our horizontal relationships. Because in every relationship that we have, sometimes we will go through our bad days, sometimes others will go through their bad days. So, if we have excessive expectation on the other person, then when they don’t live up to that expectation we’ll get frustrated.
One of the main reasons why relationships don’t work out in today’s world is because we expect too much from others. Many reasons why we expect too much. One is that we have an excessively romanticized conception of relationships, which comes from all the movies and the novels and the whole propaganda.
Second is also that we have many different emotional needs which can be catered through two different relationships. In the past people were a part of a broader community, a bigger family, so now all the needs that would be catered for through different relationships, we expected all to be catered through one relationship and then it doesn’t work. I expect my partner to be like my friend, I expect my partner to be like my parent, I expect my partner to be like my lover, all of it.
We have too many expectations, so when we become too emotionally dependent on someone, then even a small oversight by them appears to be catastrophic. You don’t love me, how could you forget this? So if we have a vertical relationship, then through that connection we get some security, we get some amount of shelter, we get some amount of strength and that. Even if somebody in the horizontal relationship doesn’t love me or doesn’t love me the way I expect them to, still I am loved by the ultimate reality, I am loved by Krishna.
That gives us some security and that security brings stability in our horizontal relationships. So to feel unloved is distressing and worse than that to feel unlovable is devastating. So if I feel somebody doesn’t care for me, then it’s very difficult to go on and if I feel nobody will care for me, then that’s even worse.
But if we have spiritual understanding then we know that Krishna always cares for us. So that brings us some security into it. So the connection with Krishna brings stability in our horizontal relationships.
So even if somebody just behaves in an unpredictable way sometimes, we can bear those storms without feeling rejected. At the same time we cannot connect with Krishna alone because we are social creatures, so we need horizontal relationships. So the horizontal relationship can also work to stabilize and strengthen our vertical relationship.
Today I feel spiritual, tomorrow I don’t feel so spiritual. But if my partner is also spiritually interested, my friends are also spiritually interested, then sometimes even if I don’t feel like it, just seeing them doing it, okay let me also do it. And then I think this is important, this is good, I should be doing this.
So the ideal situation is where the horizontal and the vertical relationships, they function symbiotically. Now sometimes it may not work like that. Then we have to recalibrate those relationships so that they don’t interfere with our spiritual quest.
Sometimes some people are there to inspire us through their encouragement, their support, their friendliness, they inspire us to become spiritual. And some people may push us towards becoming spiritual by just being the opposite. Some people just by their unfriendliness, irritability, hostility, that may make us, may push us towards becoming spiritual.
That doesn’t mean we have to be with them all the time and let ourselves be tormented. But it’s just that we’ll have to understand what role which relationship is playing in our pursuit of ultimate reality. Sometimes we pursue the ultimate reality with some people.
Some people we pursue, sometimes we pursue the ultimate reality in spite of some people. Sometimes we pursue the ultimate reality through some people. Through some people means they become our guides by assisting them, by trying to contribute to them.
They take us towards the higher reality. So we have to see the various relationships that we have in the light of how it relates with our ultimate quest. So some people, it’s said, some people bring happiness wherever they go and some people bring happiness whenever they go.
So different people have different dispositions and it may not mean that they have different dispositions, it’s just that they affect us in different ways. A person who as soon as they leave, I just feel relieved. But the same person, somebody else we just welcome them.
Oh you are so nice. It’s just the way we interact may vary. So we have to see each relationship and how it can it can figure in our pursuit of the ultimate relationship.
Does that answer your question? Yes. Yes. Oh yeah.
I’m sorry. So you mentioned in a sense a established future or set for you during your life. In that sense, could you elaborate maybe on destiny and how does it play? And besides that, I want to ask about that.
Let’s take one question at a time. Come back later. So how does purpose, if we say we have to find our purpose, and doesn’t that contradict the idea of destiny where we are meant to follow a particular path that is already set for us? Destiny refers not so much to a path as to a pattern.
That means that destiny is more like a weather forecast than a road map. If I go on this road, you’re going to have a storm here. You’re going to have clear weather here.
You’re going to have flood over here, whatever. So, what happens to us is determined by destiny. How we respond or what choices we make is up to us.
In that sense, everything, there are two extremes. One is to think that nothing is destined and everything is in our hands. The other is to think that everything is destined and nothing is in our hands.
But the balance is to understand that there are certain actions which are in my hand to choose. But there are certain actions, certain things which are beyond my power of control. Say, we’re driving.
Now, there’s a forecast that there’s going to be heavy rains. Now, in the heavy rains, if I drive very fast and recklessly, I’ll be to the accident. If I drive slowly, cautiously, even then the rains are there and they’re going to cause inconvenience.
But my likelihood of meeting with an accident is significantly lessened, or even if I meet with an accident, the casual injury, the damage that may happen because of the accident can be lessened if I’m not driving recklessly. So, destiny basically determines what happens to us during our life journey. So, certain events in our life at this time, for example, right from the birth itself, which family we are born in, which race, which dynasty, what financial level we have, what complexion we have, what memory capacity we have.
These are something which we just get from birth. That doesn’t mean that we can’t change them at all. We can change them to some extent.
We were born in a poor family, but we can work and earn money. The point is that we were born in a poor family. So, the starting point of our life is determined by factors beyond our control.
Along with that, during the course of our life, certain things just happen. That’s destiny. But, what path we choose in terms of what actions we do, that is up to us.
So, finding our purpose means that what is the path I should choose by which I can get the best result in my life, the ultimate fruit of my life. How can I make my life most fruitful? So, for example, if I am here right now and there is only a snowstorm that is going to sweep across this area. So, there are three roads from here.
Now, whichever road I take, all the three areas, the snowstorm is going to come. But say, this road takes me further and further into the wilderness where if the snow becomes too much, I don’t have any shelter. This road, it takes me into a sparsely populated area where I may or may not find somewhere to take shelter.
This takes me home. Now, by the nature of the weather, whichever path I choose, the storm is going to come. But the occurrence of the storm doesn’t determine which path I choose.
The path I choose is determined by me and what I will get will vary depending on the path that I have chosen. So, there is human responsibility which is not to be denied in the name of destiny. So, destiny doesn’t determine the choices that we make.
Destiny determines the situations that we may meet after we make those choices. So, destiny may determine the consequences of those choices also. Let me put it another way to make it a little simpler.
That let’s two students study for an exam. One student studies and whatever they study comes in the exam and they do very well. The other student also studies but somehow something else comes in the exam and they are not able to do well.
Both of them put their effort but the result they got was different. Why was that? That is destiny. Whether they studied or not that is not destiny.
That is their freedom. Another simpler example could be that in if somebody is farming then the farmers have to sow the seed and plough the land. That is their responsibility, that is their free will, that is their choice.
Then the rains coming on time and the appropriate quantity that is destiny. And when their work and destiny go together then there is the harvest. So sometimes if they don’t sow the seeds itself even if rains come they will not get the results.
Sometimes they may sow the seeds and still rains won’t come, again they will not get the results. So destiny determines the results of our actions. But destiny doesn’t determine the actions themselves.
So when we are talking about finding our purpose, that simply means the more we understand our spiritual nature and the more we learn to live in harmony with that nature then even if certain negativities do happen to us, we will go towards the negativity towards the ultimate positive reality, towards the positive destination. Now of course the word destiny is sometimes used in another sense also. So we use destiny sometimes to refer to what happens to us.
If somebody meets with an accident we will say it was destiny. But sometimes we may use the word destiny in another sense, somebody is a very talented football player as a young child and then they grow up and become an international star, he or she fulfills his or her destiny. Now here we are using the destiny not so much in terms of what happens but as an unfolding or a manifestation of the talents that they have.
So that sense of destiny is different but generally the word destiny is used in the sense of certain things which are predetermined in life but that’s not everything is predetermined. So we do have the capacity to choose our actions and if we choose a worthy purpose then even if there is some destiny which is favorable or unfavorable still we will be able to attain worthwhile destination. Does that answer your question? Okay.
Yeah. Right. Right.
So if we if the results of our actions have been predetermined is there a purpose to that? Yeah. We all have to we all have done certain actions in the past and we all have to work out that karma. So the generally there is actions which leads to results or causes lead to effects but karma is not simply a A to B correlation cause A leads to B effect.
In between whether that A will lead to B immediately or B will come eventually after sometime that will be and that is determined by the way of working out our past karma. Say a simple example normally if somebody overeats they will become obese or their health will get spoiled. Now some people they they just eat normally and still they tend to become obese or their health gets spoiled.
They don’t do anything wrong but still their health gets spoiled. Some people they eat a lot they treat their tongue like a conveyor belt and still they don’t become fat. So we see that normally there is a correlation between A and B but sometimes B can occur even in the absence of A and sometimes the presence of A doesn’t lead to B. So this A to AB correlation is a normal pattern but sometimes the AB correlation may be interrupted.
So that is determined by destiny. So some people say who have done good karma in the past they are meant to have a healthy attractive body in this life. So no matter how they eat they still have that healthy attractive body.
Some people by some past karma they may have they are meant to have a sickly body and even if they eat very careful still they fall sick. So sometimes this correlation may not be there. So the purpose of this at a at one level is that the destiny is the way through which our karma works out but the ultimate purpose is that through recognizing that the results of my actions are not in my control.
I may do A but I don’t always get B. Through this we are meant to recognize that we are not the ultimate purpose and just trying to get B shouldn’t be our ultimate purpose of life. There is some higher purpose, there is some higher controller and there is some higher purpose. So raising our consciousness towards higher understanding is the ultimate purpose of destiny.
If A always led to B then we would just think okay I just do A I get B and we would think that we are in control and then we would never pursue anything higher in life. In science also progress happens when okay scientists have discovered one law but then they come across some data which cannot be explained by that law. Newton discovered the laws of physics but then when scientists found that in the subatomic level or in the macroscopic level these laws didn’t work.
Then they enquired in quantum physics and relativity. So like that we do see the cause-effect correlation and when that cause-effect correlation doesn’t seem to be working that’s how we get prompted towards looking for some deeper understanding. Does that answer your question? Okay.
So yeah. So Okay. So if we have a mental or physical health issue then do we just accept that or do we try to do get over that come over it and then in getting over that we pursue the ultimate reality.
This will vary based on situation. We all have different situations that we are in and in those situations different things are of different levels of importance for us and different things have different capacities of being changed by us. Say I’ll give two examples.
If you’re going in a crowded train in India and Mumbai say there’s a train with a capacity of 100 in one coach and there are usually around 300 people packed in that coach. So we’re standing next to someone and that person starts pushing us. Now when I feel annoyed I say who is this person pushing? I’ll push you back.
And then he pushes back. Now if we get so caught in pushing that our destination comes and we forget and we’re busy pushing on it and what is the use of that? It’s okay. I’m here in this train for just a short while.
If this person is pushing me you have your space. It doesn’t matter. I’ll just move somewhere else.
So there having our space is not very important. So in the light of how long we are there and where we want to go that person pushing us doesn’t matter for us. But if that same person starts pushing us out of the train itself then we have to draw a line.
I’ll have to push back. I’ll have to do something because I stay in the train. So tolerance is a virtue but it is not the supreme virtue.
Tolerance is a virtue in the light of the ultimate purpose that we can pursue by being tolerant. My purpose is to get to the destination and so I tolerate. But if in tolerating I can’t get to the destination itself then there is no point.
Then I have to not tolerate. I have to mitigate. I have to do something about it.
So similarly if we have some physical or mental issue that limits us in some ways if that is not having a major limitation it’s something which is livable. It is inconvenient. Somebody pushing us around is inconvenient.
But it is but sometimes trying to combat that thing it takes more effort than whatever result it gives. So I have some issue but in trying to try this medicine, try this, go to this doctor, go this, that is taking so much time and energy that in comparison with that the inconvenience or the trouble that is caused by this issue is not that much. So it’s livable.
Then we may decide I don’t want to get into this. We may try some treatments that don’t work, we may leave it there. But sometimes something may just make life unbearable for us as if somebody is pushing us out of the train itself.
Then at that time we have to take a stand and we will have to make it, make getting that treated as a priority. So how the situations that come in our life relate with our ultimate quest. That will vary.
Sometimes we just live with it and move on. Sometimes we need to change it to move on. So that will depend on both how much that situation is troubling us and how much we can change it.
Sometimes something may trouble us a lot also but there seems to be no way to deal with it. So then we may just accept that this is, there is some higher purpose to this. I don’t know what that purpose is but there is some higher purpose.
We look at the present and plan the future but Krishna looks at the future and plans the present. So something in the present may be very unpleasant and we just are not able to change that. But it may well be that it’s not good but it may be for good which I may realize later.
So I try to change it, I can’t change it then rather than just getting resentful or hopeless because of that I just somehow develop a thick skin, tolerate it and move on. So and eventually I may find out how that was for my good. I was speaking on the same thing last year when I had come to America and then one I spoke in a class in Fort Lauderdale.
So one girl from Ukraine, she was there. She told me an experience she had of this after the program she told me. She had gone to a spiritual resort community in a place in