Speaking according to time-place-circumstance to make outreach effective

[God-family meeting at Toronto, Canada]

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna. So, I am grateful to be here amongst all of you.
And I will speak today on the topic of how to speak effectively for transforming people’s hearts. I will speak a little bit about how Srila Prabhupada did it, what was his intent, how Srila Prabhupada’s leading followers, including His Holiness Radhaath Maharaj, do it. And how we need to respond to time, place, circumstance.
In the Bhagavad Gita, in the 17th chapter, in the 15th verse, Krishna says, an austerity of speech is to speak in a way that doesn’t agitate others. anudvega karambakhyam satyam priya hitam chayat svadhyaya bhesanam chaiva vanmayam tapa uchyate So, speak in a non-agitating way. anudvega karambakhyam He says, speak satyam, speak the truth, but speak it non-agitatingly.
Priya, that is dear, pleasing. hitam chayat It will be beneficial to people. So, a rough topic.
I write these Gita Delhi articles every day. Just today I wrote an article. Matter matters, and so does manner.
Now, when we are speaking, the matter that we are speaking matters, but the manner in which we speak it also matters. So, when Krishna is telling here, anudvega karambakhyam, that you should speak in a non-agitating way. So, we all have various needs at various levels.
And for the level of the body, we need air, water, food. Similarly, we are relational creatures. We live in relationships.
And a vital need in relationships is understanding. Our heart needs understanding as much as the body needs oxygen. So, it means, sometimes when we are speaking to someone, that person just waits for one moment to stop and just bounces back, you know.
So, actually they are not hearing to understand, they are hearing to respond. So, now that happens because for whatever reason, they feel, you know, what they are saying is important, what we are saying is not important. Sometimes, how many times have you the experience that you ask some question in a class and the preacher answers a different question? Do you have any of these examples sometimes? Most of the times devotees told, for me it happens sometimes, usually I try to repeat the question.
I try to repeat the question to make sure that the audience has understood, that the speaker, that I have understood their question rightly. But sometimes some people ask the question for five minutes and there I try to repeat it one minute, then I am afraid to ask, I have spoken rightly because they will speak for five minutes again. So, sometimes it happens that and I speak an answer and after that the devotee comes and says, actually my question was this.
So, if, you can come ahead please. So, if we speak something, which is not what people are asking. So, in a sense, a question answer session is a very good example, universal example, of how the speaker needs to understand before the hearer can understand.
Normally we think the burden of understanding is on the hearer. The speaker is speaking and the hearer has to understand. But especially after a class, when there is a question answer session, it is important for the speaker to understand the question.
And usually when understanding the question also, it is not just the words of the question. Beyond that, what is the emotion of the question? What is going on in the person’s hand? That is not so, person’s heart, that is not so easy to understand. But to the extent we understand that, to the extent the answer becomes effective.
So, Krishna also demonstrates this in the Bhagavad Gita when Arjuna tells Krishna that controlling the mind is very difficult. yoyam yogas tvayaprokta samyena madhusudana etasyaham na pasyami chanchalatvat sitimsthiram That Krishna, this process of yoga you have told me, in which I have to keep my mind in samya, in equanimity. It is almost impossible for me.
And then Krishna, Arjuna speaks the most famous verse, chanchalam himanah krishna pramathi balabhadram tasyaham nigraham manye vayoriva sudhushikaram So, this is 33 and 34. And Krishna responds, the first thing he says is asamshayam mahabaho manodurnigraham chalam Undoubtedly, oh Arjuna, it is very difficult to control the mind. So, it is like Arjuna is having a doubt and Krishna is telling there is no doubt that this doubt is valid.
So, Arjuna has a samshaya and Krishna has a asamshaya. Yes. So, sometimes some people may have a misunderstanding and many times, many misunderstandings are understandable misunderstandings.
I mean, it is quite understandable that this kind of misunderstanding may come. So, Krishna first pacifies Arjuna. Yes, yes, yes, it is true, what you are saying is difficult.
And then he goes on and, yes, but it is possible by abhyasenata kaunteya vairagyena chigruhyate So, if people do not feel understood, then they will not understand. They will, and this applies not just to some, this sort of understanding in terms of interpersonal understanding that may not be so much required for just abstract or theoretical subjects. If you go to study physics and chemistry, this interpersonal understanding may not be so much required.
Just to understand the concepts, even there it is required to some extent because there also, if the question is answered, the speaker needs to understand what the question of the student is. But especially where relationships are more personal and are meant to be more transformational. Then, at that time, the understanding has to be much more clearer.
Suppose we go to a doctor and before we tell what are the symptoms, the doctor says, ok, take this medicine, take this medicine. What? You didn’t even hear my symptoms. So, now, in this case, even if the doctor is so expert, the doctor has diagnosed the disease properly, but still, if the doctor does not make the patient feel that I have understood, then the patient will not take the medicine wholeheartedly because the patient will feel maybe it is understood properly, not understood properly.
So, basically people have their minds, which are frequently having certain conceptions. The same thing Krishna talks earlier in the Bhagavad Gita, also in 3.26, when he says, So, he says, don’t disturb the minds of people, even if they are attached and even if they are ignorant, still, and even if you are knowledgeable and even if you are detached, instead of disturbing their minds, engage them in a way that they will grow. It’s engage them.
It’s interesting here in 3.26, Krishna uses the word buddhi, and Prabhupada translates it as mind. Don’t disturb the minds of less intelligent people. So, what is the point over here? Many times our mind gets a certain conception and there are intelligence reinforces that conception.
So, when that happens, although we are trying to remove the conception from the mind, the intelligence justifies it, so that intelligence feels very defensive and disturbed when something is directly attacked. So, now, when Sri Prabhupada came to America, the first one month, he stayed with Sally and Gopal Agarwal and that month, he just spent in hearing from Sally and Gopal Agarwal. Gopal Agarwal goes to office, Prabhupada says, ok, how does this washing machine work? How does this vacuum cleaner work? So, if you read in the Leela Amrit, Sally Agarwal, she says that, actually, Prabhupada, Swamiji seems so interested in everything American.
He was like a child-like curiosity. How does this work? How does this work? How does this work? So, Prabhupada was trying to understand the American culture so that he could present, so that he could explain his message in a way that would make sense. The point in spiritual communication, the point is not just to get it right.
The point is to get it across. The point is not just to get it right. Suppose, say, a preacher comes and gives a class in pure Sanskrit and nobody in the audience understands Sanskrit.
You got it right, but you got nothing across. You got 100% right, but 0% across. So, the point is not just to get it right.
Getting it right is important, but getting it across is also important. In fact, that’s the purpose of communication. So, Prabhupada was quite resourceful in this.
Prabhupada, for example, in 15.6, Krishna is describing the spiritual world. He says, that supreme abode, that abode is not illumined by sun or moon or fire. And Prabhupada adds, or electricity.
Now, we may say, where is electricity over there? If you see the context, what is going on over there, Krishna is contrasting the spiritual world’s nature with the material world’s nature. And here, in 15.6, he says, that abode is not illumined by sun, moon or fire. And then six verses later, 15.12, when he is describing the material world, he says, The same three items he uses.
Sun, moon and fire. And he says, these three illuminate this world and their illuminating potency comes from me. So, the point here is not just the same three items.
The point is that the spiritual world is a self-luminous place and the material world is inherently a dark place. The visual world does not need any external illumination. This world needs illumination.
So, therefore, the point is that the sources of illumination are required here, not there. So, now, Prabhupada is presenting that message, which Krishna spoke 5000 years ago, to the contemporary audience. For most people today, their primary source of illumination is electricity.
How many of us use fire for illumination? Very few. Sometimes even if we have a fireplace in our house, that is more for sure. It’s not actually real fire.
So, what happens is that our primary source of illumination is the electricity. So, Prabhupada, in order to make that point intelligible to us, he adds electricity over there. So, the point is to get it across.
That no illumination is required in the spiritual world. Illumination is required in this world. So, Prabhupada also once, a hippie in the early days, in 1966-67, he asked Swamiji, Swamiji, what is the bliss of Vaikuntha like? And Prabhupada said, it is like an ocean of LSD.
An ocean of LSD? How can you compare the pure bliss of Vaikuntha with the tamasic enjoyment of a narcotic drug? No. Actually, it is not comparable in one sense. That is very exalted.
This is low level. But the point is, for somebody whose conception of happiness is taking drugs, oh, you know, okay, they think going high, taking drugs, that’s happiness. Ocean of LSD? Yeah, I want to go there.
I want to experience that. I want to enjoy that. So, the point of describing the spiritual world is to create a desire for the spiritual world.
We don’t want to describe the spiritual world in an abstract way which does not inspire anything in people’s hearts. So then, we have to speak in a way that people understand. So, now normally, as I said, I started giving the example of language.
That if I speak in Sanskrit and the audience doesn’t understand Sanskrit, it’s a clear mismatch. But the language that we use is not just verbal. Actually, all of us have a conceptual language.
Conceptual language means we have a particular world view which is shaped by our culture, our education, our upbringing. And we see things in a particular way. And in order to help people understand Krishna’s message, we have to show them Krishna in their way of thinking.
It is not that Krishna is a product of their way of thinking. But we have to show Krishna in their way of thinking. And to the extent we are able to do that, to that extent, we can actually help people appreciate Krishna Bhakti.
To the extent we fail to do that, people don’t appreciate Krishna Bhakti. Rather, they stay stuck in their own conceptions. And what we are speaking just seems unintelligible to them.
So Srila Prabhupada, he quite often used the hippie language, stay high forever. That’s what he used when he spoke to the Americans. Now when Prabhupada went to India, Indians, it is not that when we know that when Prabhupada tried very hard to share Krishna Bhakti with people in India for many years, and people were not ready to take it.
So when Prabhupada went to America in 1965, and then he came back in 1970, is it that in five years Indians were completely transformed? That the same Indians who were not receptive to Krishna Bhakti suddenly became receptive to Krishna Bhakti? No, they were not so much receptive to Krishna Bhakti per se. At that time, the mood in India was the mood of cultural nationalism. We have been ruled by these western people for so long.
And now these western people are taking something from us. They are adopting our culture. They are adopting our wisdom.
So Prabhupada tapped into that. Most of the people who came to Srila Prabhupada’s movement at that time in India, very few of them actually became dedicated followers. Very few of them became initiated devotees.
At that time somehow things were not ready. But what happened? That appreciation for Prabhupada’s message through the spectacle, through the glasses of cultural nationalism, that was not there when Prabhupada was just a lone swami wandering on the streets of India. But when he came back with several busloads of western disciples, people were impressed.
They were enormously impressed. So many people started helping Prabhupada simply because the Swamiji is spreading our culture all over the world. And Prabhupada tapped into that.
Prabhupada accepted their service. And because they were not ready to become committed at that time, so Prabhupada accommodated them by creating the programme of life membership. The programme of life membership was basically that you give some Lakshmi for building Krishna’s temples for Krishna’s cause and then you get Prabhupada’s books and you get the facility to come in the temple.
So that means if we consider outreach like climbing up a tall temple, now helping people to get to the top, at the top of the temple are the deities and there we can get darshan. Now some people are ready to climb all the way up to the top. Some people may want to take a few steps.
It’s enough. I can’t go. I need some break.
I need some pause. So then they may be at those steps, but even if they have taken that many steps, they have entered the temple premises and even by that they get purified. Sometimes some temples like Tirupati Balaji, they are high up on the mountain and some people try to climb up.
And sometimes they are able to climb up. Sometimes it’s just too difficult. They climb up half the way and then they say, no, no, I need somebody to carry me or I need a bus or whatever.
So the effort that they are putting in trying to climb up, that is already helpful. It is already purifying. So some people may be ready to go right up to the top of the temple immediately and some people may want to go gradually.
So even those who are wanting to go gradually, if they are taking one step up, one step up, they are that much closer to Krishna. So when Srila Prabhupada’s followers in America, they started following him, they were like people who are ready to come climb right up to the top of the temple. They were ready to, not in the sense that they became pure devotees, but they became seriously committed.
So as far as the Indians in India were concerned, they were not so interested in becoming committed followers. So Prabhupada accommodated them. That means through the contribution to Krishna’s movement, they were getting some punya and bhakti by that.
And they got Prabhupada’s books by which they could read and they could further grow in bhakti. And they got the opportunity to come and stay in temples, which was also special. And so Prabhupada, what he did was he provided, he accepted them where they are and he provided them multiple facilities by which they could come up.
And they could come up at their pace. So it is Krishna says, So, as all people surrender unto me, I reward accordingly. What this means is, from your place, at your pace, Krishna is saying.
If this is your place, from your place you can start and at your pace. Spiritual life at one level, you would like to attain Krishna at the end of this very life itself. But spiritual life is a multi-life journey.
Many people may not be ready to take the full journey at the full pace. That’s fine. They can move forward gradually.
Krishna himself accommodates that in the 12th chapter. From A verses 8 to 12, he says, just be absorbed in me. If you can’t be absorbed in me, then try to fix your mind.
If you can’t fix your mind on me, then just engage me. Just do some service for me. If you can’t do service for me, then whatever work you do, offer the fruits of that to me.
If you can’t offer the fruits to me, then offer the fruits of some good cause. So Krishna gives various levels at which we can connect with him. So now, what Prabhupada did in India was, people had that zeal of cultural nationalism.
And he would use that in Krishna’s service. So he was giving one lecture to a Jew in the early days and he said, Bhagavad Gita is your message. Bhagavad Gita is India’s message.
But to teach the Bhagavad Gita in India to Indians, I have to get people from America. So he says, learn this message, share this message. Duniya mein bahut market hai iske liye.
There is a lot of market for this knowledge. So what? Now at one level, the Bhagavad Gita first says, Dehi nosmin yatha dehe. You are not the body.
That means you are not an Indian. So the Bhagavad Gita is not an Indian book. It’s a transcendental book.
But if that Indian-ness is what attracts people to Krishna, then that’s what stimulates people to engage in bhakti. Prabhupada channelled that. So the level that people are at, at that level, we need to connect them with Krishna.
We want them to come to a higher level. But if we prematurely present the higher level, then they will not connect at all. As in education, every teacher, every mother, all parents, they want the child in junior KG or first level or whatever.
They want them to become graduate, post-graduate, well-educated. But when we are admitting the child, we can’t, just because we want the child to graduate, we can’t admit a child who is at third level in a tenth level, on the seventh level. So we have to make sure that they are admitted at that level.
And from there they move forwards. Now in spiritual life, there are no clearly defined criteria by which we can determine who is at what level. The level is determined by one’s understanding and one’s inspiration.
How much do I, what makes sense of me? What makes sense to me right now? See, basically we interact with the world in two ways. Through the knowledge acquiring senses and through the working senses. We take in information from the outer world and then we act on the world.
So the information that we take in through the knowledge acquiring senses, that gives us understanding. And inspiration means that is the way we act in this world. We translate that understanding into action.
So these are the two primary ways in which we interact with the world. First we understand something and then we are inspired to do something. So now, how much people will want to take up spiritual life that depends on their understanding and their inspiration.
So some people may not be ready to understand the full philosophy. They may not be inspired enough to practise right now. So what do we do? We need to accept them where they are and give them a step forward, come from where they are up.
And in different cultures, in different social settings, the people come from different backgrounds, different mindsets. Understanding that mindset is extremely important if we are to help people come to the Krishna Lotus Feet. So for example, when Srila Prabhupada was in America in the 1960s, that was the mood of rebellion.
Rebellion means that this whole education is bad, the economy is bad, the politicians are bad, everything is to be given up, everything is to be rejected. Srila Prabhupada with his strong philosophical presentation gave them philosophical foundation for the rejection. You reject this, reject this, reject this and then what to take up after that.
So Prabhupada says in a lecture that the hippies had already done Sarva Dharmaan Paritthaj. He says, I taught them how to do Maa Mekam Sharanam Rajya. So that was the mood of rejection at that time.
Now when Prabhupada came to India, there was no mood of rejection. The whole mood of India was nation building. We want to make sure that India gets the place of pride in the world map.
So Prabhupada tapped into that mood. Prabhupada says in a lecture that, you people are lamenting that India lost Pakistan, India lost Bangladesh. He says, you start preaching the Bhagavad Gita, the whole world will become Hindustan.
So what is Prabhupada doing over here? The level at which people are, he is presenting Bhakti according to that level. So understanding where people are at is important. Just like a teacher has to understand what is the level of the student and then present the Bhakti wisdom accordingly.
So now if you consider after Srila Prabhupada’s departure from this world, the many movements started by charismatic founders just collapse. They stay for some years while the charismatic founder is there and after that they just crumble. By Prabhupada’s mercy, he has empowered his followers in such a way that the Krishna consciousness movement has not only survived but it has expanded further.
It has expanded much much more. So now, I recently met Radhanath Maharaj in Chicago when I had gone to meet him. So, for the world I come to preach to America, for myself I come to meet Maharaj.
Maharaj is available much more in Chicago than anywhere else. He spends several hours discussing various things. So then Maharaj was telling me that actually, he told this to other devotees also, he just mentioned briefly to me.
He said that in the first, Maharaj really never was a preacher. He was in search for God and then when he surrendered to Srila Prabhupada, he came to New Vrindavan and he stayed on top of a mountain. And then he was told, you go and preach in America.
And he was told to go in colleges. And he had no resources, so he had learned cooking, he would just cook and talk with people. He was already a very philosophical person, that’s how he went out in search for God.
But, he had no, he still, because he was born and brought up in America, and he was a part of that youth, he had been youth, so he could connect with youths. But when he was sent to India in 1980s, he said that at that time, for several months and years, I was simply meditating and reading on how Prabhupada connected with Indians. And he said that the main thing was that our movement in America was a temple-based movement.
People lived in the temples. Whereas in India, it was not a temple-based movement. It was a congregation movement.
And that was the same that happened all over the world. Now, I am interspersing my commentary on whatever Maharaj spoke. So, Maharaj spoke briefly, but I am just elaborating it.
So, he said that the movement itself was very different. If somebody is living in the temple, then we can tell them, you should do this, you should not do this. But somebody has their own life, they have their own family.
Now, we can’t control people so much. What we can do is inspire them. We can’t control them, we inspire them.
That means everybody has their free will. And their free will means they are going to do what they are going to do. Actually, suppose somebody is high on alcohol, they have taken a huge dose of alcohol and they are drunk.
And then they got a million dollar cheque with them. And then they might just give that million dollar cheque to anyone. So, if they have a friend, if they have a well-wisher, if they have a guardian, then it is that guardian’s responsibility to talk in such an appealing, intelligible, pleasing way that that person, that drunk doesn’t squander away that million dollar cheque, but rather gives it to them so that they can use it fruitfully.
So, similarly, the conditioned soul is like that intoxicated person. All of us, at some level or the other, and especially people not connected with Krishna, are all intoxicated. But everyone has that million dollar cheque.
That is their free will. That is their free will. And when a person is drunk, they really can’t determine, should I be doing this or should I be doing that? Whatever feels good, they will do it.
So, similarly, everybody has their free will. Why is it compared to million dollar cheque? Because it is only by using the free will properly that anything can be done. Even millionaires who have attained millions of rupees, that’s because they use their free will in a particular way.
So, our most precious possessions are free will. And when we are intoxicated by worldly illusions, then whatever feels good, we may use the free will for that. Sometimes the students, they have to study for the exam, but if they get too inebriated, then they may spend hours surfing on the net.
And what about the exam? So intoxicated, don’t think about the consequences. So, our free will is our valuable possession. And when we are trying to share Krishna’s message with others, that means what are we trying to do? We somehow have to speak to them in a way that inspires them to use their free will for Krishna’s service.
And this free will is like a million dollar cheque, but it is not like a one time transfer cheque. It has to be continuously offered to Krishna. Now I serve Krishna in this moment, in the next moment I serve Krishna, in the next moment I serve Krishna.
So, for people to be inspired to serve Krishna, how to inspire them, how to get them to use their free will properly, that is a great art. And because everybody has free will, if somehow Krishna Bhakti doesn’t make sense or they don’t like it, they can just go away. That’s like they have got this precious human form, precious free will, they may just misuse it.
So, for us it’s important to understand how we can get them to use their free will properly. So, what did Srila Prabhupada do? Srila Prabhupada used the spirit of cultural nationalism that was pervading India at that time for getting people to take up Krishna Bhakti. And by that we just got people further and further to Krishna.
And at that time people were up to a particular level. So, many people became life members, very dedicated, they fought. Srila Prabhupada when somebody was threatening the temples, I just met Giriraj Maharaj in Carpentaria.
So, many of you know that Prabhupada had to fight a very tough fight to preserve the Juhu land so that the temple could be built. So, finally when the land was transferred, the deal was signed, Prabhupada said, it was a good fight. Somebody should write a book about it.
So, now Giriraj Maharaj has completed a 700 page book on the whole story. So, he is calling it, the title is, it is a good fight. It is a good fight and, no, no, the title is something like, he told me, I will build you a temple.
So, Prabhupada had said to the deity of Radharashtra, please come and stay here in this tent, I will build you a temple. So, I will build you a temple. So, a good fight and a promise fulfilled.
That is the subtitle currently. So, Prabhupada fought at that time and many well-wishers, they helped him in a very big way at that time. So, at that time, their inspiration was cultural nationalism, just use that in Krishna’s service.
So, then when the community building started, see, Indians, if you consider, there is piety and there is impiety. The piety we can say in the mode of goodness, impiety is in the mode of ignorance. So, in the western world, impiety was what was the prominent way of living.
In India, at least at that time, piety was the way of living. So, the impious way has to be rejected and one has to embrace Krishna Bhakti. But from piety, one doesn’t have to necessarily reject piety.
One simply has to be elevated from piety to spirituality. So, elevated from piety to spirituality means that the way, if we see our movement is spread in India, it is not so much by telling people to reject what they are doing in their life, it is by inspiring them to become more committed to the practise of bhakti. So, mostly the leaders in India who are successful, none of them have that mood of confrontation or rejection.
It is more of elevation. You are doing this, this is good, do more. Birth in India is so special.
Take it wholeheartedly. So, there is one senior devotee in India, in Radha Gopinath temple. Earlier the follower, his whole family was following some other spiritual leader.
And then, somehow, he used to come to the Maharaj’s programme and he would go to that Swami’s programme. And then, at that time somehow, that particular Swami was accused of some malpractice. And it came in the news.
And normally, when something like this happens, what we would do? See, you are following him, he is wrong, give him up and follow. Follow Krishna, follow Prabhupada, follow Prabhupada’s followers. That would be the normal mood.
But then, as soon as this news came out, at that time the Chowpatty community was very small, Maharaj called all the brahmacharis and told them that no one should speak anything about this to me. No one should speak anything about this to me. So, normally, when somebody whom we respect or venerate, if they are accused of something, whether it is true or not, we are wounded at that time.
And somebody comes and pours salt on the wound. So, this devotee, he has become a leader in the congregation there. He told me that, he told me personally also, he told other devotees also.
He said that when he came to temple, he was so tense. What are these devotees going to say? And he said the fact that nobody spoke anything to him about this. Everybody was just normal.
They were talking with him nicely. Now, when he brought the subject, they were ready to talk with him. But they didn’t bring up the subject at all.
That was what persuaded him. These are really nice people. And then, when he wanted to take initiation, so eventually that acquisition was proven to be false.
Not actual, it was just a false acquisition that was there. But eventually, when he wanted to take initiation from Maharaj, Maharaj told him, your whole family has taken shelter of that Swamiji. So, you go and take his blessings and then take initiation from him.
Now, he was, what if he does not give the blessings? What will happen? But, when he went there, he said, he went to that Swamiji and said, yes. He was quite understanding. He said, if that is where you are inspired to go, it’s fine.
Go, you have my blessings. He was so happy that he came and took the blessings. So, here, what has happened is that, now, there are cultural sensitivities involved.
Bhaktivinod Thakur says in Jayaiva Dharma that, if people are, that a devotee naturally wants to participate in devotional festivals. But, he says, at that time in Bengal, the Durga Puja was very big. He says, if a devotee, if there is a social festival or religious festival like Durga Puja, a devotee can participate in that.
Devotee’s heart is in the festival centre of Krishna. But if there is a social obligation required, a devotee does that. We offer the deference and we don’t, we worship Durga in our mind as the agency of the Lord.
So, we don’t have to go out of our way to worship the Goddess. But, if that is what the cultural convention is, that is what our family has been doing, if that is what social obligation is, we do that. We don’t have to reject that or condemn that.
There is a time and place for education and there is a time and place for participation. If somebody has come for our programme and we are giving class and at that place they start saying that, oh, so and so, Baba is God. Well, at that time you may say, yes, he may have done some social service, he has done some good activities, but philosophically he is not God.
But if you have gone to their place, that is not the time for education. If you have gone, that is the time for participation. We don’t need to go there.
If you are going there, they are not accepted as authority. So, we have to present in such a way that we can ensure that people, if they don’t come towards Krishna, at least they remain favourable to Krishna. Our normal mood is that we open the door and invite people, please come to Krishna.
And if they don’t come to Krishna, we slam the door in their face. You know, you are in maya, you are in illusion, you are this, you are that, you are attached, you are ignorant, you are this. And then people not only don’t come towards Krishna, they actually become hostile towards Krishna.
Now, Shri Prabhupada sometimes spoke strongly, but strong speech is important to the extent it is effective speech. Prabhupada had the advantage of old age, where he as an elderly person could speak things and people could accept it. So, when I started practising Krishna Bhakti, I asked Jaya Dvait Maharaj, how should I preach to my parents? And Maharaj replied, by letting anyone except you preach to them.
So, there is a line of authority where the parents see their children, I have educated this person, how can this person educate me? So, we have to respect these conventional lines of authority and yes, we want to give spiritual message also, but we have to give it in the right way, at the right time. So, this strong speaking means not just the strong word that we speak, strong speaking means the speaking that strongly attracts people towards Krishna. So, what is it that helps people come closer to Krishna? Now, some people may start coming towards Krishna immediately, some people may be favourable to Krishna.
So, this attitude of inclusiveness, not exclusiveness. Exclusiveness means we are right and everyone else is wrong. Inclusiveness means, yes, there are various levels of rightness.
Is the worship of the devata good or bad? Well, for somebody who is materialist and atheistic, the worship of the devata is good. For somebody who can be a Krishna bhakta, for them the worship of the devata is not required. Say, a parent has two children and one of them usually gets 40% marks, the other just barely classes, other person gets 80% marks.
So, then both of them have come with their results and both of them have got 60%. Then, the father will say for the person who is 40%, shabash, well done. And the person who used to get 80%, badmash, what have you done? Now, both of them have got the same marks.
Why the difference? Because their level is different. From 40% to 60% is elevation, from 80% to 60% is a decline. Similarly, for somebody who is a materialist, atheist, godless, if they start worshipping the devatas, that is good.
From 40% to 60% is elevation. But somebody who is already worshipping Krishna, if they start worshipping devatas, that’s like going down from 80% to 60%. So, Krishna says, no, no need to do this.
Similarly, for somebody who is just living a materialistic life of self-centred enjoyment, if they start giving some charity to some good cause, that is good. But if somebody can give charity for Krishna’s cause, which is the supreme cause, then for them to start giving charity for other causes, that may not be so good. So, good and bad are not necessarily absolute or categorical.
Good and bad are also contextual. At what level a person is, from there we have to help people move up. So, therefore, this understanding where people are at is vital, so that we can help people to come towards Krishna.
And this mood of helping people gradually come towards Krishna from where they are, once they start feeling, oh, this makes sense, this is good, they will themselves accelerate their pace. So, rather than demanding that people come to a higher level, we accept and appreciate them where they are and then provide them steps to rise to a higher level from there. So, the whole mood of, say, in the Radha Gopinath community which Radhanath Maharaj has built, the mood was that devotees should be provided whatever is needed for their lifelong practise of bhakti.
So, that means he started, the devotees fall sick, so let us have a hospital for them. Now, devotees, most of them are not going to be brahmacharis, they are going to be married. So, let’s have a group of senior devotees who can form a marriage board.
Devotees would like to go to pilgrimage, but then they will just go one time, second time. Let all of them organise the yatra and go together. So, basically, whatever is required for a devotee to practise bhakti in a harmonious way in the material world, let’s start providing that.
So, the idea is that we can’t just sell people, you know, this is all mundane. Oh, your financial situation, your health, your marriage situation is all mundane. Well, it is material, but it is material that is very closely related to the spiritual.
And providing, sometimes the category material is too broad to be helpful. So, in the material also, there can be pro-spiritual, non-spiritual or anti-spiritual. Or we can say, there can be goodness, passion and ignorance.
So, we have to see what is at what level. And so, some activities are in goodness and they are pro-spiritual. They may not be directly spiritual, but they are pro-spiritual.
Some activities may be in ignorance and they may be anti-spiritual. Those we have to give up. So, now, I won’t go much into how the community development happened in India, because that’s a whole class in itself.
My main thrust was, you know, what is happening in the western world right now. And how we can help in sharing Krishna Bhakti in the western world. So, the world has changed rapidly in the last 10-15 years.
More, you could say, in many ways, it’s faster it has changed than the last 50 or 100 years also. So, in today’s world, when Srila Prabhupada came in the 1960s, the mood was of rejection. Now, the whole mood is of contribution.
Contribution means, you know, how can I contribute to making a better world. Now, among youths, there is a huge surge of activism now. Activism is quite cool.
Environmental activist, animal rights activist, this right activist, that right activist. Activism is very common. So, one devotee in LA, he is conducting college programme.
And he had many students coming for the programme. He was inviting them. Please come to the temple for the Sunday programme.
So, for many weeks he was inviting, they never came. But then one week, he told them, would you like to come to our Sunday programme to serve free vegetarian food to 300 people. Almost 95% of them came.
Some of them came in time for the lecture also. Some of them came directly for serving. People want to do something.
They want to contribute. So, how is the philosophy going to make a difference in my life? Or how is it going to make a difference in the world? We normally talk about theism and atheism. People believe in God, people don’t believe in God.
And there are agnostics who say we can’t know whether God exists or not. But undercutting all these three categories, theists, atheists and agnostics, there is another school of thought that is called apotheism. Apotheism means whether God exists or not, I don’t care.
You people quarrel about the nature of the other world and create problems in this world. So, people want to see whether religion is a positive source of transformation in this world. And they feel religion is not a source of transformation.
It’s actually a source of trouble. That’s why many people say that I want to be spiritual but not religious. It’s a big demographic.
They call themselves SBNR. Spiritual but not religious. So, they feel that spiritual means being open-minded, wanting to experience higher reality.
But religion means dogmatic, demanding. I was in the Bible Belt. So, there was a person who was driving.
Sometimes people in their car bumpers, they write some slogans. This person did a slogan, Oh God, please save me from your preachers. So, if the preachers are holier than thou, if the preachers are going to go to hell, God saves us through his preachers.
But people think, save me from your preachers. It becomes like that. I was at a college programme.
So, I spoke on science and spirituality. Then a boy came and said, I am an atheist. So, I said, okay.
What is the conception of God that you don’t believe? He said, no, I don’t believe in God. Okay, yes, okay. But what is the conception of the God that you don’t believe? He says, I don’t believe in a God who sends people to hell if they don’t surrender to him.
He said, I also don’t believe in that God. I also don’t believe in that God. So, people’s present conceptions are often reactions to what they have experienced.
And they impose that on us. So, now, there are many conceptions of God that people have from different ways they have got those conceptions. And if you say, oh, you are atheist, you are going to go to hell.
Atheism is terrible, demoniac. No, you have to find out. Even if there is 99% disagreement, if we want to have a reasonable conversation, we have to find the 1% agreement and move forward from there.
If you highlight the 99% disagreement, then people’s defences go up. And then we can’t communicate. So, Prabhupada, once he was in India, the devotees had a small temple in America.
It was like a house. On one side, the devotees were there. On the other side, an old woman was there.
And this old woman was complaining constantly. These young people, they make so much noise. This, that, this, that.
And she was making kirtans and other things very difficult for the devotees. So, when this happens, anybody does like this, devotees say, you know, that old woman is a demon. So, they told Prabhupada on a morning walk, you know, she is okay, there is no more trouble for us.
So, Prabhupada came for the morning walk and instead of going back to their temple, Prabhupada went and knocked on her door. And they talked. And she opened the door and Prabhupada talked.
Now, almost 15-20 minutes, Prabhupada was talking with her. And Prabhupada was simply talking, typical old people talk. You know, how is your health? Where are your children? What are they doing? And the devotee was waiting, when will Prabhupada speak about Krishna, Chandigarh Krishna? Prabhupada did not speak one word about that.
And then, they parted very amicably. And Prabhupada was going back and the question mark was written on their face. The idea that we should speak about Krishna to everyone.
So, Prabhupada did not speak about Krishna. So, Prabhupada just looked at them and he said, sometimes old people get lonely. And that makes them irritable.
So, Prabhupada did not see it. They were quick to label her as a demon. Prabhupada said, it is just loneliness.
You are feeling irritable and you are creating noise. It irritates her further. So, after that, when Prabhupada left, the devotee met her again and said, your Swami is such a nice person.
And she stopped complaining after that. So, Prabhupada brought her closer to Krishna without speaking one word about Krishna. So, sometimes we just have to behave in a proper way and that will get people to Krishna.
So, in the western world, what is the current mood? As I said, the current mood is the mood of contribution. So, although we can say the western world has become more degraded. That is just Kali Yuga.
But there are many trends which indicate a rise of Sattva. The rise of goodness. One trend is the vegetarian or the vegan movement.
In the western world now, it is cool to be vegetarian. So, that is, there is an expansion of consciousness which people sense. Animals also have life, we should not kill them.
So, that is a channel by which we can actually connect people with Krishna. They are appreciating vegetarianism. It was actually Prabhupada who, in a sense, introduced vegetarian cuisine to the west.
Hyderabad writes, we had no idea about how to be vegetarian because we thought being vegetarian means simply eating vegetables. The Swamiji told us, there are so many recipes. So, he says, we found that Swamiji’s knowledge of recipes was as vast as his knowledge of shlokas.
So, vegetarianism indicates one way in which people are coming more towards Sattva. Another is yoga and kirtan. People, they need health.
Most people do yoga only for health. But, why are they doing it? Instead of taking tranquillizers, instead of taking antibiotics, they are trying to do some exercise, some holistic, healthier way of seeking. That indicates a certain level of goodness.
And people are very receptive to kirtan. Actually, Prabhupada, when yoga was a competitor to bhakti, Prabhupada said, there is no need for yoga. Just practise bhakti.
So, but if yoga can be a facilitator to bhakti, why not? The point is that we have to make sure that people who are coming to Krishna don’t have to go elsewhere. But people who are not coming to Krishna, something can be a tool to get them to Krishna. That’s very good.
Similarly, there is Ayurveda and alternative medicine, which is also very big. And through that also many devotees are getting people to come closer to Krishna. And then there is, the fourth is, there is the environmental consciousness.
That’s huge. So, the whole Govardhan eco-village project is developed on tapping people’s environmental consciousness and getting people to come closer to Krishna by that. So, in the, I’ll conclude with two points.
Then we can have some questions. So, basically, these are the channels through which Western people can come closer to Krishna. And if we tap any of these channels, people are not really interested at this stage in today’s world in terms of just giving up everything and practising Krishna bhakti.
They don’t want to join another Hindu cultural group. They want to do something which helps people make a contribution. So, that way, these four channels, the Govardhan eco-village, they are very environmental conscious.
They have a yoga training institute over there, yoga teacher’s training course over there. And every year, thousands of devotees, thousands of people come from the West to the Govardhan eco-village. And they are now becoming devotees.
Actually, if you see, most of your experience in Canada, America, even Europe, our movement is becoming largely Indianised. And Prabhupada wanted that the local people should also become devotees. So, that challenge is a big challenge.
And not many people are able to do that because we have all grown up in a particular way, presenting philosophy in a particular way, presenting the culture in a particular way, which people are just not able to connect with. So, using these channels, the channel of yoga, the channel of kirtan, the channel of Ayurveda, the channel of environmental consciousness, the channel of veganism, using that for getting people to Krishna is what is required. That means people are at that level and from there we have to create steps from there to come closer to Krishna.
Another mood is, another point in this, the current world is called the post-modern world. The post-modern world is characterised, if there is any characteristic to it, is rejection of all authorities. The whole idea is that any person who claims to be an authority, that is simply a concealed claim to power.
They hold that and they just don’t want to accept any authority. So, in the pre-modern times, it was religion or scripture that was authority. Whether it is the Bible in the West or the Vedas in India, in the modern times, science was the authority.
Now people use technology abundantly, but still it’s not that people trust scientists. People trust scientists, they also have interest in money, they are respected, but they are not adored or worshipped. That was in the modern times.
In the post-modern times, there is neither faith in scripture nor faith in science. If there is any faith, that faith is in experience. Experience means, if you are doing something, tell me about it.
If you are doing something, tell me about it. So, experience means, don’t tell me something which you have learnt from somewhere. Tell me how it works.
So, I was at an interfaith conference and it was about different religions talking about how to deal with post-modernism. So, there was this Christian pastor who was telling that what is the post-modern attitude. He says, if there is a couple, they want to give some guidance to young couples.
And they say that we have been married for the last 25 years, happily married for the last 25 years. And we would like to share how we made it work. Please tell us.
But if that same couple, he says that we have been married for the last 25 years and anyone who divorces is going to go to hell. Let’s say, you go to hell first. So, if you say, this is right and this is what you should do.
Who says it is right? But if you say, this is what works for me and this is how it works. This is what I do and this is why I do it. Then that people want to hear.
And the whole mood of the journey home book was that. It’s descriptive spirituality. This is what I did and this is how I did it.
Now, spirituality can be presented in three broad ways. Prescriptive, normative and descriptive. Prescriptive means, you should do this, you should not do this.
But that people say, who are you to tell me? Normative means, this is right and this is wrong. On what basis do you say, this is right, this is wrong? And there is descriptive. Descriptive means, this is what I do and this is why I do it.
We present it in this way. Actually, in the western world, there is an ethos of multiculturalism. So, if you don’t impose what we are doing on others, people are quite open to hear what you are doing.
And if they like it, they will take it up. So, in this descriptive spirituality, we can present our worldview, we can present our philosophy, but we present it not that you have to do it. This is what I do and this is why I do it.
And that appears very non-threatening and it appeals to people’s multicultural instinct in today’s world. And that way, when we present, so the whole journey home book, the experiences from there, the lessons from there, all that is descriptive spirituality. And it connects with people.
And once people hear how this works, let me try it also. And they take it up at their pace. So, presenting things in that way is vital.
And when we are trying to share Krishna Bhakti among each other, actually it’s not just western people who are post-modern, even Indians are becoming more and more post-modern now. So, India is also going towards that. So, in India, there are multiple currents.
The educated upper class or the upper middle class, most of them are very post-modern. The lower class may be quite traditional, but they are very rigidly traditional. It is not spiritually traditional.
So, in this, presenting spirituality in a descriptive way, that is a way in which we can attract many, many people to Krishna. And that is what is being pioneered in the western world by Radhanath Maharaj. So, if you see, if he just goes to India, every class, he will have thousands of people for the class.
In a Bhagavatam class in the morning when Maharaj used, there are over a thousand people over there. But in America, when he comes, he goes to yoga programme, they have 20 people, 50 people, 100 people. So, when I met Maharaj in Chicago, he was telling, the same time I spend in New York or London or Mumbai.
He says, in Mumbai, the devotees can organise 10 times bigger programme for me. In London, they can organise 2-3 times bigger programmes. In New York, he says that there are not so many devotees, not so many programmes.
But he says, Prabhupada said that New York is the most important city in the world. Prabhupada wanted that the Krishna Consciousness Movement be here. So, it is like a general who has already fought and won a big kingdom.
Even in his old age, he is not resting in that kingdom. He wants to go and get more souls for Krishna in other places. So, it is a great sacrifice.
So, what Prabhupada did in his old age? Prabhupada went in his old age from India to America. So, Maharaj also, he came from America to India, found Krishna, then again he came to America, and he practised and preached over here. Again he went to India and now he is focussing on America or the Western world once again for making sure that there is a sustainable movement of Krishna Bhakti even in the Western world.
So, it is an enormous task. And for us also, we may be able to assist in a small or big way, but we can internalise this mood of descriptive presentation of Krishna Bhakti. To the extent we appear dogmatic, to the extent we alienate people.
Now, if I say I am better than you, if we try to stand out, we get left out. They are wrong, they are wrong, they are wrong, we are right. You are sectarian, we get left out.
We try to stand out, we get left out. But if we try to belong, belong means yes, there are many spiritual paths, and we are one of the spiritual paths. If we try to belong, then we stand out.
Because we have strong sadhana, we have a deep philosophy, we have a powerful process with us. But people need to experience that. If they experience that, the transformation that happens by that is dramatic.
So, for many, many people in the Western world, they are already thoughtful. There is some level of sattva in it. But if you give them Krishna Bhakti, they can take it up in a very big way.
So, that expertise in sharing Krishna Bhakti is very important. So, Maharaj, I will conclude with this point. Maharaj said that truth stops acting as truth if it is not presented with compassion.
Truth is meant to benefit people. But if truth is not presented with compassion, then it stops acting as truth. That means, what is the effect of truth? How should truth act? Truth should attract people to Krishna.
Truth should help people to come closer to Krishna. But if you don’t present it with compassion, compassion means you understand where people are at. And it’s like a doctor who gives a medicine without considering the case history of the patient.
Sometimes the medicine that is meant to cure can actually aggravate the disease. Because the patient has some complication from the past. Sometimes the medicine has to be given and the doctor asks, do you have any heart problem, do you have any diabetes, do you have this? Because this medicine may aggravate that.
So, that is doctor’s responsibility to get the patient’s case history so that the patient will be benefited by the medicine. So, similarly, compassion simply means that we understand where people are at and then give them Krishna Bhakti accordingly. So, truth needs to be presented with compassion.
Otherwise, it won’t act as truth. Instead of getting people towards Krishna, it will send people away from Krishna. But if we present it with compassion, then we will have multiple levels.
Some devotees will become very very serious and they will follow the full programme of Krishna Bhakti. Some people may be at this level, some people may be at this level, some people may be at this level. But they will all be headed towards Krishna.
Some will go towards Krishna very quickly, some will go towards Krishna slowly. But overall, there will be raising of consciousness towards Krishna. So, our goal is not just to make people into initiated devotees.
That’s wonderful if they become. But our goal is to raise people’s consciousness. So, even if people become a little more sattvic from where they are, that is also a success.
So, when we understand that, then we can actually present Krishna Bhakti in a sensitive way by which wherever a person is, we can help them rise from there one step upwards towards Krishna. So, I will summarise what I spoke today. I spoke about presenting truth effectively.
Matter matters, but manner also matters. So, I started by, the Bhagavad Gita says, speak truth in a way that doesn’t agitate people’s minds. And this means we understand where people are at and help them rise.
I gave three different examples. One is that in education, we have to understand what level the student is at and then present them the knowledge by which they can rise upwards. And if you are going to a temple, it’s a tall temple, not everybody will go all the way up.
Whatever level they are ready to go up, we help them. We need some breathing space. Gradually they move upwards.
And then I talked about Prabhupada’s example. Prabhupada, I talked about his presentation of scripture. The point is not just to get it right, it’s to get it across.
I presented the Bibles of Aikuntha like an ocean of LSD. So, the spiritual world does not have electricity. So, the point is to get it across.
And Prabhupada spent time in understanding American culture so that he could present it. So, the hippies, they were into rejection. Prabhupada gave them philosophical basis for the rejection.
Indians were in the mode of cultural nationalism. Prabhupada channelled that. He says, this Gita is India’s knowledge.
You share it all over the world. The whole world will become spiritualised. So, although Prabhupada would have liked if Indians would also become dedicated devotees, but they are not ready.
Prabhupada accepted them where they are, engaged them where they are, and gave them facility to rise upwards. So, that was the life membership programme. And people have their free will and they are going to use it whatever feels good for them.
So, they are like a drunk person with a million dollars check. So, it is for us to get them to use that free will properly. And so, when the person is drunk, within their drunk worldview, we have to make sense.
So, that is a challenge. But to the extent we do that, to that extent we can get people to come towards Krishna. And so, in India, in the western world, it was a world of impiety.
So, that had to be rejected to get people to Krishna. But in India, it was largely a world of piety. From piety, they just need to be elevated.
Rejection is not required so much. So, then we present in such a way that it can be elevated. So, people, they have their emotions invested in things.
And say, somebody is following a particular spiritual teacher or has a particular belief, has a particular ritual. There is a time for education and there is a time simply for participation. So, when we understand, it is not that every time we just have to give the truth.
Sometimes we just make a human connection and that is what attracts people towards Krishna. Prabhupada got that old lady to come closer to Krishna without speaking one word about Krishna. And then lastly, I talked about the western world.
Although the world has in many ways degraded further, but still through these four trends of veganism, of environmental consciousness, of yoga and kirtan and also alternative ayurvedic medicines and things like that, people are becoming more sattvic in some ways. And those channels can be used to get more and more people to Krishna. Actually, there is a fifth channel also.
Mindfulness is there. And we can use that also. But anyway, the point is that when in today’s, in pre-modern times, people accepted science as authority.
In modern times, in pre-modern times, scripture. In modern times, science. Now it is experience.
So rather than descriptive or rather than prescriptive or normative spirituality, we present it as descriptive. This is what I do and this is why I do it. And if we try to stand out, we get left out.
But if we try to belong, then we stand out. So truth stops acting as truth if it is not presented with compassion. But if presented compassionately, it can get many many people to become favourable to Krishna and some people will take the full step and become dedicated to Krishna.
And this way, rather than having a few favourable and many unfavourable, like we open the door and they don’t come and slam the door. Rather, keep the door open, people come the distance they want to come. And that way we can have people on the progressive spiritual journey.
Some may take it in this lifetime, some may take it in future lifetime. But there will be elevation of consciousness towards goodness for many many people. And that itself can tap into today’s mood of contribution.
If more people come to goodness, that will contribute to the world becoming a better place. And that way we can share Krishna Bhakti in a way that attracts people from where they are at right now. From their place at their place.
Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. Are there any questions or comments? The journey within, that is also a descriptive spirituality, right? Yes, journey within is also largely descriptive.
But it is, I was talking with Maharaj, Journey Home is like a, he asked me about the two books. I did some editing for both books. Journey Home is like a feature film.
Journey Within is like a documentary film. Journey Home is much more dramatic. Journey Within is much more educational.
There also Maharaj uses experiences. And he doesn’t present it in a dogmatic way. He presents it in a reasonable, intelligible way.
So, it’s that God has three aspects. Brahman, Paramatma, Bhagwan. Instead of saying it that way, the Bhakti tradition says that God has three aspects.
So now, that’s true. Bhakti tradition says that. So that is also descriptive spirituality.
But it is not just describing experiences. It is also describing concepts quite a bit. Yes.
Yes, sir. Who is the one who is important for spreading the Krishna Consciousness to the new people? The person who presents the Krishna Consciousness to the people, his capacity of the philosophical explanation, or the person who is receiving, coming to Krishna Consciousness, his previous karma to come according to his karma, Bhagwan is coming straight up to the Krishna Consciousness. So, what ensures that people come to Krishna Bhakti, is it the presenter of Krishna Bhakti, who is intelligent, nice presentation, or is it the receiver of Krishna Bhakti? They are already spiritually evolved and they take up.
Ultimately, it is Krishna who gets us to Krishna Bhakti. It is Krishna who is present in the speaker’s heart. It is Krishna who is present in the hearer’s heart.
And it is Krishna who helps the connection to take place. So, Prabhupada also says that, O Krishna, please make my words understandable to them. He says that in his song, Markene Bhagavad Dharma.
So now, having said that it is Krishna who gets people to Krishna, it is our responsibility to try to present in as attractive way as possible. So, we should try to understand where people are at and try to present in a way that makes sense to them and that appeals to them. Not that we have to dilute the truth, but we have to present that part of the truth that is going to connect with them, that is going to make sense to them.
So, when people are not coming to Krishna, there is the part where we always should try to make our best presentation. So, if somebody is not coming to Krishna, we have to see that, is it that I am not doing something right? So, if this is the circle of their interests, this is the circle of Krishna Bhakti, we have to find out what is the intersection and we present Krishna Bhakti accordingly. That is the preacher’s intelligence.
So, the preacher can always think that maybe I can do something better to get people to Krishna. But sometimes, no matter how well we present, some people may just not be ready. So, some people come because of the presentation of Krishna Bhakti to Krishna and some people come in spite of the presentation of Krishna Bhakti to Krishna.
Some people may just get a terrible presentation, but still, they come here, go there and they connect with some devotee. Finally, they come to Krishna. So, I was at Brisbane and I was giving a seminar on cultivating non-judgemental attitude.
So, after I spoke that three-part seminar, and Mataji, she told me about her experience. She and her husband were there. Both of them were very educated.
They are scientists and doctors. So, she said that she was from Shakta background and she came to the temple for the first time and she saw some darshans, she saw some Mataji’s doing garlands. So, she also sat down and started making garlands.
And then some senior devotee came there and he said, looked at her and said, Do you eat meat? She was shocked. In Shakta family, they don’t normally eat meat. So, she just mutely nodded her head.
That devotee picked up the garland and hurled it on the ground. He said that, you cannot even touch the paraphernalia that is to be offered to the Lord. She was shattered.
She went away crying. But somehow, she met some other devotees after that and now she has become a serious devotee there. So, she came there in spite of the devotees.
So, sometimes, it’s ultimately Krishna who gets people to Krishna. So, we try our best and we try to learn. What can I do better to get people to Krishna? But if people are not coming, they just may not be ready at this time.
So, if people don’t know, it is our problem. If people don’t take up, it is their problem. And no doesn’t mean we just thrust the philosophy down their throat.
No means, show them the circle of intersection between their interest and the scope of Krishna Bhakti. Yes, there are some more questions behind? You were saying that, one should speak in a way as not to agitate others. How do you do that, don’t end up taking advantage of you? You know, you try to always speak in a nice way and get people to be agreeable.
But then people think that you are soft and they start taking advantage of you. If you don’t speak in a harsh way to them, they think this person is not serious. If we speak softly always to people and people start taking advantage of us, they feel that we can just be pushed around.
And what do we do at that time? You know, we can have, as they say, an iron feast in a velvet glove. That means, it is not that we are meant to be pushed around by anyone. We speak softly, that doesn’t necessarily mean that we will be just ready to be pushed around.
The idea is that we have a particular purpose, we have a particular service, we have a particular task to do. And whatever is required for that, we will do that. So, we don’t want to speak in a judgemental way or in an aggressive way and alienate people.
But the situation requires that we take an assertive stance. See, broadly there are three kinds of speech. There are three kinds of people.
Passive people, aggressive people, assertive people. So, passivity is in the mode of ignorance. You know, whatever people do to me, I just accept it.
Everybody pushes me around. Aggressive means, how dare you do this? It’s like a small mistake and a huge explosion. A small objectionable action and a huge explosion.
Assertive means, you know, we take a stand based on principles. Okay, this is what I was expected to do, this is what I have done. Now, if you want me to do more, I cannot do it now, I’ll do it later.
This was my part, that is your part. As a favour, I might do a little bit of your part, but you can’t dump your whole part on me. So, we basically, when we are aggressive, we are just reacting to other people’s actions.
When we are assertive, we are responding according to our principles. So, responding according to principles means, okay, this is my service and this is what I have to do. So, let me do it and if somebody is interfering with that, I have to speak strongly.
So, it’s not that being soft-spoken doesn’t mean letting ourselves be manipulated. It just means that we don’t alienate people by speaking strongly. But sometimes, if strong speech is required, it’s not that strong speech is wrong.
Strong speech is very much required. So, even when we are sharing spiritual message also, strong speech is required at times. The word, the example is used of a sadhu’s word, like a surgeon’s knife.
They cut and that’s how they enlighten. So, that’s important. At times, you have to cut.
But the surgery is not the first line of treatment. It is not as soon as a person comes to the hospital, the surgeon starts cutting up the person. Let them come, let them settle in the hospital.
First, before doing surgery, there is a signature of consent. They accept, you are my doctor, I entrust myself to you, then you take the treatment. So, there is a time and place when strong speech is also required.
And it’s not that we have to always be non-confrontational and let people push us around. It’s just that we don’t have to treat confrontationalism as a virtue. It is sometimes a necessary requirement in life.
And when it is required, we don’t avoid that. Does that answer your question? Thank you. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna. Yes.
Prabhuji, you know, you talked about, it leads to listening skills, like how to, you know, first listen to others and then, you know, otherwise, it is like, first you need to understand what the person is trying to say and then you respond accordingly. But most often times we rush, like we have, as the person is speaking, you already have your responses and presumptions. How do we cultivate this habit of listening first carefully before we respond so that we take them in the right direction? How do we develop the habit of responding, of hearing attentively before responding? For me, I just found, it saves time.
It is like, if I don’t understand a person’s question properly, then that person is going to come and ask me again. So, like, I have answered some other question and then I have to answer this question again. So, it is like a patient, like a doctor gives a wrong prescription, patient comes back not well, you have to give the right prescription.
And to get the right prescription, the patient has to hear. So, the doctor has to hear the patient. So, basically, although sometimes in the heat of the moment, I don’t have time.
So, it is true, we are all busy and we all have a lot of things to do. We don’t have really time to sit and hear people. So, but the fact is that if you don’t hear, if you don’t understand, then people become distanced, people become alienated.
And after that, to repair the relationship takes much much more effort. So, sometimes say, relationships are also, they have to be cultivated. It is like if I put water daily on a tree, if I have got a tree in my home, I have to put water regularly.
It requires effort, I have to remember it, I have to do it. But if I don’t do it, the tree starts dying. And then I have to do so much more to try to save that tree.
So, similarly relationships are like that. If we don’t hear, if we don’t try to understand, then people feel alienated, then misunderstandings grow more and more. And then after that, to break through that mountain of misunderstandings.
See, initially the misunderstanding is like a small mound. It can be easily crossed. But then that mound is left as it is.
Then one mound, second mound, third mound, then it becomes a mountain. And scaling a mound is much easier. Scaling a mountain is much more difficult.
So, at one level it is just pragmatism. It is just practical wisdom. It will save time in the long run.
We may not be able to do it for everyone, but at least in our important relationships, if we try to take time to hear and understand, that will save a lot of time in the long run, it can save a lot of heartburn for us, for others. So, this is from the intelligence perspective. This is why it is important.
It will save time. Although I may feel I don’t have the time. If there are some crucial conversations, high octane conversations that are going to happen, then better invest some quality time for them.
We can’t have them on the go. We have to sit and make time for those. And as far as that particular moment is concerned, two, three things can be done.
First is that, somebody has done something terrible. We feel they have done something terrible. At that time we have the urge to explode at them.
And we just want to speak. Somebody is asking something, we want to speak at that time. So, if we just consider that if I was in that situation, even if I had committed a mistake, what would I want? Would I want that this person come and chastise me? Sometimes we feel, you know, I want to put that person in their place.
So, it’s a don’t put people in their place, put yourself in their place. That means, if I had this place, if I had done something like this, why in the wide world would I do that? Maybe if this person is a reasonable person, they would not do like this. Why have they done this? Instead of exploding at them, so, let’s try to understand them.
Now, if they are just, if we feel after some time, they are just rationalising, justifying, they are not interested, then you may create a distance between them. That’s afterwards. But, just give them a chance to speak.
If we try to put ourselves in their place, and even if we assume guilt, okay, this is wrong and I have done wrong, what would I want at that time? Would I want that somebody just come and beat me up? I want to apologise for the wrong that I have done, but if somebody starts beating me up, then instead of apologising, I have to become defensive, because I feel threatened at that time. So, putting ourselves in others’ place is very helpful. It can diffuse the explosion, at least for some time.
Second thing could be that, you know, we, if we, if I say that person has done something terrible, if we just have that urge to speak out at that time, it’s better that we, you see, basically think of emotions in two ways. Either I express them or I repress them. But there is a third thing which you could do, which is process them.
Process them could mean various things. For me, what I do is, if I am angry with someone, I correspond with a lot of people by emails, so I just write the email. But I make it a policy that for 24 hours, I will not send that email.
And many times within those 24 hours, things get resolved. They clarify, give some information, they apologise, a lot of things get avoided, a lot of things get saved by that. so that writing it down gives some expression.
So, maybe if you are very angry with someone, that person is important, that relationship is important, instead of expressing at that time to them, we can just write it down in journal or, you know, just privately speak it out, just get it out of the head. That way, what happens is, it helps us to calm down. Or sometimes that anger, I have not done this, but I know one devotee who told me that when I am angry with someone, I keep my recording device in front of me and I speak it out.
I imagine it is that person. And I speak it out. And then, he said, I told you how he started this was, that once he just exploded another devotee.
And then that devotee privately recorded the whole conversation. And then, he played it back. And he said, I spoke such things.
So, you know, in anger we speak such things, we would never normally speak. So, in the Greek tradition, there is, anger is temporary madness. So, what happens is, at that time, all that we are concerned is, there is this emotion churning within us, I have to vent it out.
But if we just, okay, we just vent it out privately, either in a journal or just speak it out. Then after that, the pressure inside goes off. But because it has been expressed, then we calm down.
Hey, you know, this is too harsh. It’s too harsh, you know, I should not have spoken this. Maybe I can speak this point, but I can speak it more softly.
So, this is what, instead of expressing or repressing, we process it. So, process it either by writing or just by recording, and then going over it again, maybe after a day or something, and then decide how to present it. So, we can’t just repress.
But we can’t just express also. So, if we repress, it causes burning within us. If we express, it will cause burning elsewhere.
So, better have something in between. And a third thing could be that, if at all, we still feel very strongly that, you know, we just have to speak it out at that time, better to speak someone trustworthy, a third person, not in a gossiping sense, not a person who will go and tell them that, this is what, this has been terribly hurt by this, this is what happened. So, then, they will act as a buffer for us.
They will give us an alternative perspective before we encounter that person. So, we have the urge to speak, and there are times when we need to speak. But we have to find the right forum, right manner in which we speak, so that it makes the issue, things better, not worse.
Thank you. Yes, Rafesh, last question. I was just reflecting on what you were speaking.
As sadhakas, we, you know, we try to immerse ourselves in our spiritual chanting, reading, associating with devotees. And then, the other part is, we are also trying to represent what is called Krishna by trying to share this self-preaching in some sense, whatever sense. And, you have to be relevant also in the world, like you were, you know, a scientist, you know, I find it very difficult a lot of times to be relevant in the world.
Meaning, trying to keep up with the world’s trends, the world’s news, what shifts are happening. I mean, I have definitely had people, you know, their closer relationships, they are honest, and they said, you know so much about this, but you seem like when it comes to just what is happening in the world, you live under a rock. Right? Like, I don’t know anything.
And, in certain respects, they are absolutely correct. So, I was just thinking, how do we, I guess, reconcile these two? Because, we also know that, I mean, I know that whenever we look at the world, we should have a kind of a certain lens by which, okay, how can we share this? But, how do you reconcile the two, you know, practising as a serious sadhaka and trying to also be relevant by keeping up? Because, if we generally want to share this in a genuine way, we have to, like you said, we have to be relevant. We have to present things in a way that people can relate.
And, I mean, sometimes I feel like my knowledge of, you know, the world, kind of stopped at the time when I, my knowledge of kind of the world and what went on stopped when I became a devotee. Hmm. Good point.
Yeah. So, sometimes, we know a lot about Krishna Bhakti, but we stop keeping up with the trends of the world and then people feel as if we are living under a rock. So, how do we stay relevant? See, initially, ISKCON started more or less as a cult.
Today the word cult has a very negative connotation. Prabhupada also used the cult of Sri Jaitanya Mahaprabhu spread all over the world. At that time, cult simply meant an insular group.
A group of people who live as cloistered or secluded kind of life and they don’t interact much with the world and that’s how the Krishna Mahesh movement started. And that was fine when people were living mostly in the temples. Hmm.
But now, we are no longer that kind of insular movement. Most of us live in the world and we need to be aware of the world. So, ignorance of the contemporary culture is not necessarily a spiritual virtue.
Ignorance of the contemporary culture is not necessarily a spiritual virtue. Yes, you know, infatuation with the contemporary culture can be a vice. We are just caught in watching this movie, that movie and this and that, this movie song, this, this, this.
We might just get attracted and deluded by that. We might just get misled from Krishna. But, if we are in a particular world, we have to be aware of that world.
You see, in the past, there were no newspapers or internet. But, if we look at at Krishna Das Kaviraj Goswami, when he written the Chaitanya Charita Amrit, he quotes from about 45 books in his book. And only 7 of them are direct Vedic scriptures.
Like Bhagavatam or this or that, Gita Govinda. Many of the other books are Rasa Shastra or Natya Shastra. Their contemporary books of Dramaturgy and contemporary books of Rasa literature, they are not necessarily spiritual.
So, he is quoting from those books also. He was very aware of the literary trends of his times. And, as far as we are concerned, when we live in the world, how much should we know about the world, that will simply vary from person to person.
But, the principle is that ignorance of the contemporary culture is not necessarily a spiritual virtue. How much time we should spend on that, that we will have to decide. But, being aware of the news, being aware of the cultural trends, that just means being present in the world.
We don’t want to be of the world, but we have to be in the world. Broadly speaking, there are, okay, it’s a big answer. I’ll just try to explain as quickly as possible.
See, there are four kinds of people with respect to tradition. And, basically, when we are a living tradition, we have a connection with the past. And, we have a connection with the contemporary culture.
So, if we connect, if we, the connection with the tradition brings fidelity. That is what makes us faithful to the tradition. The connection with the contemporary culture is what brings relevance.
So, to connect with the tradition, we need fidelity. To connect with the contemporary culture, we need flexibility. If we are only connected with the tradition, and not connected with the contemporary culture, then we basically become like a museum exhibit.
We become like a museum exhibit. There is no relevance to the world. If we are connected only with the contemporary culture, and not connected with the tradition, then we become just another part of the contemporary landscape.
So, we become disconnected from the tradition. So, it is our fidelity that connects us with the tradition, and it is our adaptability, flexibility, that connects us with the contemporary world. And both are required.
Now, some devotees may be, say, speaking more to devotees. Say, somebody is primarily a Bhagwat Kathakar, and they speak from the Bhagavatam. So, for them, the connection with the tradition will be much more, and they may not be aware of the contemporary world.
But somebody who is going to colleges, universities, companies, speaking, for them, they need to have a greater connection with the contemporary world. So, depending on the service that one is trying to do, we need to have both these connections. And which connection needs to be how strong, that will vary from person to person.
So, we could have the different approaches towards the culture. So, basically, with respect to tradition, there are four kinds of people, as I said. There are conformers, reformers, deformers, and transformers.
So, if you imagine four squares, there is content, and there is presentation. So, they give the traditional content, but modern presentation. That is transformers.
Is it easy to visualise? There are four squares over here. So, there is content, and there is presentation. So, those who give the traditional content, but the contemporary presentation, they are the transformers.
They transform the tradition in the sense of making it relevant to people. Those who give the traditional content and the traditional presentation, they are the conformers. Their whole concern is, this is what was done in the past, this is what we have to do.
But the world has changed. So, conformers are… Third is those who keep the presentation traditional, but change the content. They are the deformers.
Just alienate people. Like the caste system in India. You have the structure, but the purpose of spiritual advancement, of mutual cooperation, that is lost.
And there are the reformers. They change both the presentation and the content. So, we don’t need reformers.
The tradition is already well formed. But what we need is? We need transformers. So, if we are conformers, we can reach to the insiders, but we won’t be able to reach to the outsiders.
And so, with respect to tradition, we may have different attitudes. The tradition is, this is demonic tradition. Sorry, with respect to culture.
We can call this culture as demonic. And we just bash it up, and we delight in bashing it up. The second is, we may… This is irrelevant for me.
I am practising bhakti, I am going to Krishna, I don’t care what happens to the world. Third is, pessimism. This world is so bad, I can’t do anything about it.
The fourth is, you could say, penetration. In this culture, how can I present Krishna bhakti? This is so bad, forget it. This is so bad, I’ll tell the whole world how bad it is.
This is so bad, just forget about it. This is so bad, nothing can be done about it. But, this may be bad, but there is some good in it also.
Let me use that good for connecting people towards Krishna. So, broadly, we need to have that approach. Prabhupada, although in some ways he condemned materialism and western civilisation, there are many things in western civilisation that he appreciated.
When Prabhupada came with his western disciples to India, at one time, some of his disciples were interviewed. So, one of them said, my father was a truck driver. And immediately, the Times of India and the Express Policies said, oh, the son of a truck driver has now become a Hare Krishna Brahmin.
They started making it, oh, such low class people are there. So, Prabhupada wrote a letter to the Times of India, I think at that time, and he said that, the western countries are very developed, and there is dignity of labour there. So, even if somebody is a truck driver, they are respected.
It is a respectable job over there. So, Prabhupada was appreciating that. So, sometimes you may have this idea that Prabhupada was condemning western culture, but it is not like that.
Whatever was usable in Krishna’s service, Prabhupada used that. So, we don’t have to reject the culture. Now, how much to engage in the culture, that is up to individual.
Ideally, what we need, which we don’t have right now is, our movement is very new. What we should have is, we have expert devotees, who study the cultural trends, and they present the cultural trends in a way that makes sense to devotees. Again, back to Godhead, we had the Vedic Observer column, which would do that.
So, we don’t have directly a forum which does that. Many Christian organisations have that. They have their website, they have their magazines, which give contemporary analysis, which will give biblical analysis of contemporary events.
So, there are some devotees who do that kind of presentations. We can hear them more. We don’t necessarily have to read the news like hours and hours.
Just being aware of the news a little bit, being aware of intellectual trends, cultural trends. Especially, we should see that if I am serving in a particular field, then learning about that field is also a service. Like say, initially when I started writing, my conception was that, I was grew up in a devotional environment, I said, you read only Prabhupada’s books, no need to read any other books.
So, when I met Jaya Dvait Maharaj, he gave me a list of, I asked him, he is my writing guru. So, he gave me a long list of books. And then he said, you read these books, you learn writing, and if you want to read good writers, you can read these writers.
So, then one of the authors he said is that, you should read Thomas Macaulay. He has written a history of Britain. So, now in India, Macaulay is quite demonised.
You know, he destroyed Indian culture. People say that he did so many things. So, I asked him, I said, yes, you know, he may have done that, but if you want to learn writing, he is a good writer.
So, now that means, if I want to learn writing, how am I going to learn it? From good writers, isn’t it? So, if we are in a particular field, then learning about that field is also a service. If you want to build a temple for Krishna, then what are contemporary architectural trends? We need to know that. What are the traditional architectural trends? We may not need to know that.
So, we don’t have to see such, having such awareness as outside the purview of bhakti. We can see that that can also be within the purview of bhakti because it will help me to do my service better. So, we can’t, in today’s world, a big danger is that if we start getting into this, there can be total information overload.
So, we can spend hours and hours trying to know about contemporary things. So, we can, one best way to regulate is just decide some time. Now, maybe every day, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, whatever.
I’ll look at the news or I’ll look at this, this, this. These are two, if we just analyse and look around, we might find some, relatively speaking, sattvic websites, sattvic magazines, which give more analysis and not so much sensuality and violence and things like that. And thus, we can read to be aware.
So, we have to, definitely regulation is required. We can just get lost in this. But we don’t have to see disconnection as a virtue.
And we don’t have to see engagement as outside the purview of bhakti. We can say that this learning about the culture, so that we can present in the culture. That is also a service.
I’ll conclude with one last point. I had gone to, in India, in Pune, I was once invited to a Christian seminary. They call it the Gyanadeep School of Theology.
And they had taken the word Gyanadeep from the Bhagavad Gita. Gyanadeepe in a bhashvata. And they had a 8 year theology course.
And they told me that, I talked with the students and the teacher, they said that, in these 8 years, if you consider total time, they study the Bible only for 2 years. They study Hinduism for 6 years. And many of them know Hindu literature better than what we do.
Because they say, if we are going to present in this culture, we have to understand this culture. So, if we want to present in a particular culture, we have to understand that culture. How to do that? That we have to see intelligently, so that it doesn’t become distraction from our bhakti.
That regulation we can get by using our intelligence. Thank you very much.