What is spirituality and why we need it

[Science and spirituality seminar, part 2, at ISKCON, Connecticut, USA]

Podcast

Podcast Summary

Video:

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
So, we continue with our second session, where we are discussing about… We will not be using the PowerPoint right now. I had anticipated a different audience. So, I just did the program accordingly.
So, we’ll focus on the theme that we discussed in the previous session was how we all need meaning in our life. And science at one level is a search for meaning, but because it focuses on quantifiable aspects of reality, it cannot give us, help us make sense of those aspects which it doesn’t take into consideration also. And emotions, sensations, and experiences within, they are what drive our life primarily.
So, does this universe have some meaning in itself or is it that we create some meaning subjectively? And how does spirituality play a role in this? That’s what we’ll discuss in today’s session. So, the word spirituality is used very commonly nowadays. And quite often it is used to refer to a particular level of reality.
I’ll send you a second PPT. Can you open that? So, I will come back to this theme of meaning a little later. And then I will discuss specific… Right now, let’s try to understand what is spirituality.
So, generally people nowadays consider anything which makes them feel good as spiritual. So, if people go to a very natural, scenic place on top of a mountain, it is such a spiritual experience for me. It nourished my spirit.
It made me feel good. Some people, they like to jog. They jog through forest, jog through tree, jog through wilderness.
They say, oh, the jogging nourishes my soul. I know a friend who goes boating and he goes boating for hours and hours together. He says, just being in the vastness of the sky, vastness of the ocean, it makes me feel calm.
That’s what I consider spiritual. Now, here, that it makes them feel calm, that is good. And that it takes them away from the hubbub of daily life and gives them a broader perspective.
It clears the head. That is good. But at the same time, that in and of itself doesn’t make it spiritual.
So, spirituality is equated nowadays with anything that makes us feel good. Feel good in a holistic sense, but still feel good. This understanding of spirituality is based on the idea that ultimately whatever makes you feel good, that is good for you.
And that is spiritual for you. However, while we want to feel good, but on another level, we also need to understand whether there is just a feeling of good or there is something really good which we can connect with. So, yes, as compared if you’re in the city and you’re just running around with so many vehicles, meeting deadlines, just go to a natural scenic place, look at the trees, look at the sky, look at the rivers, you feel calm.
And that feeling calm is good. At the same time, there are people who may live in those same areas and they may have their own agitations of the mind. They are working over there.
Let’s say if somebody is in a hillside resort, that they’re working there, that is the place where they have to meet deadlines. That is the place where they have to get things done. That may not be very peaceful for them over there.
So, we could say that that which makes me feel good, that can be very subjective and relative. At another level, you may say, somebody may say that I take drugs and it makes me feel good. So, the drugs become spiritual.
In fact, that was the argument which many of the hippies used or LSD is a chemical. But many of the hippies re-christian that chemical. So, anybody who takes LSD, they join the league of spiritual discovery.
So, LSD became their idea that we are all members of the league that is going to discover spirituality. But drugs, even if they make you feel good, actually they are taking us into another kind of illusion. They’re not necessarily taking us to reality at all.
So, the idea of feel good being spiritual, that is a superficial understanding of spirituality. Yes, spirituality will ultimately make us feel good. But that is by helping us to find the good within us.
To find that how at our deepest levels, we are spiritual beings, we are parts of God, and just as God is all good, being his parts, we are also God at our core. Finding the goodness within us and finding the goodness within the world, that’s what will make us ultimately feel good. But without finding the underlying principles of goodness in the world, if you just look at this makes me feel good, that makes me feel good, then we are not really becoming spiritual.
We’re only thinking that we are becoming spiritual. We are never there more or less at the level of the mind. So, in today’s world, most people think of spirituality as an experience.
I feel good, that is a spiritual experience. Whatever makes me feel good, I consider that to be spiritual and that feeling good is a spiritual experience. What the Bhagavad Gita tells us is that spirituality is not just a state of experience.
It is a level of reality. It is not just a state of experience. Oh, I feel good, but it is a level of reality.
It is another level of reality, which we can attain and if we attain that level of reality, then that is where we steadily feel good. What is the difference between this? It’s a spirituality as an experience, as a state which we experience and as a level of reality. That means, as an experience means, okay, whatever makes me feel good, I’ll call it spiritual.
But as a level of reality means, there is a process that we need to follow by which we can rise to the spiritual level of reality. So, if you consider like a two-level building, say, this is the material level, this is the spiritual level. So, to actually become spiritual, we need to rise from the first level to the second level, from the material level to the spiritual level.
So, to the extent we do that, to that extent we become spiritual. And if we are not doing that, we are still staying at the first level of reality only, then something may make us feel good, but that will be temporary. It’ll make us feel good for some time and after some time, again we’ll feel bad, not feel so good.
So, the Bhagavad Gita says that there is another level of reality, which each one of us can experience and not just experience occasionally, but which we can rise to that level. And that, that is authentic enduring spirituality. And that is the level where we can find enduring meaning in life.
So, let’s consider, what do we, what does the Bhagavad Gita explain exactly when it says that spirituality is another level of reality? Say, consider if we have a computer in which there’s the hardware, there’s the software, and there’s the user. So, consider this system being applied in, say, home security. So, in home security, if somebody has a big house, like a mansion, then, and they have a big outdoor premises, and then they have a security gate, which is quite far away from the house, and they have a camera over there.
Now, from that camera, inputs come to, say, the home. If they are in the kitchen, in their living room, there’s a screen over there. And if somebody comes near that gate, they ring the bell, or they’re just coming in their car, then in the camera over here, they can see what is happening.
And they can decide, okay, should we allow that person in or should we not allow that person? So, that means, there is the, there is the person, the thing that is there, out there, in the, at the gate, then there is its depiction, or it is being seen in the screen. And there is a person observing it. So, similarly, the Bhagavad Gita says that the physical reality is the world out there.
The mind is the screen inside us, the screen on which we see the physical reality, just like, say, a person at home, they see who’s out there. So, what is out there is seen in here on the screen. And then we are the seers of that screen.
So, the, the world out there, that is physical level of reality. The image that comes inside us, that is the mental level of reality. And the seer of that image, that is the spiritual level of reality.
Let’s do a simple thought experiment to illustrate this point. So, wherever you are, now you can be seated comfortably, and you can close your eyes. And after closing your eyes, you can take three deep breaths with me.
One, two, now with your eyes closed, try to see what you see in front of you. Because the eyes are closed, you can’t see whatever is physically in front of you. But still, there seems to be something like an inner screen on which you see various things.
You may see there, maybe an image of this room, of your home, of your car, of your loved ones, of your phone. Or you may see a movie-like series of images coming and going over there. Or you might just see a dull haze of colors.
Whatever it is that you see, you see it on an inner screen. Now, as you’re looking at that inner screen, try to take a step back and look at the observer of that inner screen. Try to take a step back and see who is it that is looking at that screen inside you.
Try once again. Take a step back and look at who it is. Who is the inner seer? No matter how many steps you take back, the inner seer steps back with you.
What you are looking for is what you are looking with. You are the inner seer. You are the soul.
And the inner screen is your mind. You can take one deep breath and then you can open your eyes. So, this simple thought experiment can help us to differentiate between the inner screen and the inner seer.
Normally, we equate the two. Whatever appears on the inner screen, we think that is what we are. That is who we are.
But the two are different. So, the outer sea is physical reality. The body is a part of the physical reality.
The mind is the inner screen on which stimuli from the body come in. They are integrated and presented over there. Shatram chakshu sparshanam cha rasanam granamevacham adhishthaaya manaschayam vishayan upasevate.
From all the five senses, inputs come to the mind. That is the inner screen. And we, the seers inside, we are the souls.
So, commonly, people think that anything that will bring good images on the inner screen, that is spiritual. Oh, you know, I can see a nice, natural scenery on my inner screen. That will make me spiritual.
Now, it can make me peaceful. And it is good to be peaceful. But being peaceful is not the same as being spiritual, necessarily.
The spiritual level of reality is not about the inner screen. It is about the seer of the inner screen. That is the inner seer.
And the inner seer and the inner screen, because both of them are inside us, we often tend to equate the two. But they are different. So, the Bhagavad Gita, when it says that spirituality is not just a state of experience, what it means is, it is not just about getting some nice images on the inner screen.
It is about, spirituality is about another level of reality. That means that we understand ourselves to be the inner seer. We realize ourselves to be the inner seer.
And this inner seer is indestructible. No matter what all goes on in the outer world, actually, the inner seer remains unaffected. It is said that, the Bhagavad Gita says, samam sarveshu bhuteshu tishthandam parameshwaram hi aminashyaksu aminashyantam yaha pashyati prapashyati samam pashyanidharvatra samavasthitameshwaram nahinastyaatmanatmanam tato yati paramam vati In 13.29 and 30, Rishabh talks about this.
And first he says that, one who sees that beyond his destructible body, there is an indestructible soul that is there in it. That person is a true seer. Samam sarveshu bhuteshu.
In all living beings, tishthandam parameshwaram. There is a transcendental being who is there. Vinashyaksu aminashyantam.
All the body is destroyed. That being is not destroyed. Yaha pashyati sapashyati.
Such a person, one who sees in this way is the real seer. And the next verse says, samam sarveshu bhuteshu tishthandam parameshwaram. Once we see that, samam sarveshu bhuteshu, samavasthitameshwaram.
Samavasthitameshwaram. The Ishwar, the supreme Lord is situated in all living beings. Nahinastyaatmanatmanam.
Such a person will not get degraded by their mind. Tato yati param gatim. And that person will attain the supreme destination.
This means that the person who is able to see that beyond whatever happens on the outer scene and whatever gets displayed on the inner screen, beyond that the seer is different. The seer is indestructible. The seer is transcendental.
That will ensure that our mind doesn’t get agitated, that our mind doesn’t get inordinately disturbed. So it’s like in the sky many clouds come, sometimes stormy clouds come. But no matter how many stormy clouds come and go, the sky itself remains unaffected.
So similarly, if we understand the emotions that come within us and the situations that we face which cause those emotions, these are all like clouds in the sky. But we ourselves are like the sky. yatha sarvagatram saukshmayat aakashanopalipyate sarvatravastho dehe tathaatmanopalipyate That’s why the sky pervades everything but is not affected by whatever is present within it.
Similarly, the soul can pervade the body but the soul is not affected by the body. So if, say, we are watching a horror movie and to the extent we get caught in the horror movie, hey, what is going to happen? What is going to happen? What is going to happen? We may tremble, we may cry, we may horribilate. But as soon as we realize, hey, that’s a movie and I’m here, immediately the agitation will go down.
So similarly for us, becoming spiritual, it’s going back to the earlier example now, many people think being spiritual means getting nice images on the inner screen. A horror movie is going on, stop the horror movie and get a nice sweet movie over there. That is spiritual.
But the more the Gita’s understanding is that becoming spiritual means understanding that I am not the movie. I am not involved in the movie. I am separate from the movie.
But this does not mean that we just reject the material world, that we do have responsibility in the world, we have to act here. But just understanding that I am different from this, that is the essence of spirituality. So being spiritual, being spiritual doesn’t mean getting a nice movie to appear on our inner screen.
It means understanding that we are not a part of the movie, that we are different form, that we are bigger than the movie. And to the extent we understand this, to that extent, whatever appears on the inner screen or whatever happens on the outer scene, it will not disturb us that much. In the previous session, I talked about how we all need some meaning in our life.
Now, if somebody is completely glued in watching a movie, then at that time, they just can’t think of anything beyond the movie. People can see movies in their homes also, but still people often pay a lot of money to go to theatres to watch the movie. Because in theatres, they can have an immersion.
What happens in theatre is, first one light goes off, so you can’t see anything, can’t see much around you. And then another light goes on, which is the screen on the monitor. And then we get completely hooked to that, whatever is being displayed in the movie.
So similarly, for us, in this world, to the extent we get absorbed in this world, to that extent, we identify with it and we experience various emotions in relationship with it. But to the extent we distance ourselves and say, okay, this movie is going on, but I am not this movie, to that extent, we can get proper perspective. So if we are watching the movie, we are caught in the movie, then we become very invested in making sure that the movie turns out right.
That you know, oh, the hero should win, or this should happen like that, that should happen like that. Now we have responsibilities in the world and we have ambitions in the world. We want to do certain things, that’s fine.
And we need to try to do that, whatever our responsibilities, whatever obligations. But if you become too invested in anything, then we become more and more vulnerable because of that. So if we move forward from the metaphor of a movie to the metaphor of a video game, in a movie, we are simply the observers, but in the video game, we are also the participants.
Say there’s some movie, some video game, say of a grand, great car theft or whatever. So then the car has been stolen, the police are chasing, the thief is running, the police are running, police are chasing. Thief has gone this way, okay, come on, go this way.
Then they control the levers and the car moves like this, come on, pick up speed, or shoot over there, do this, do that. And people get completely caught in the whole thing. And sometimes, like I said, some people might just get so involved in the video game that in the video game, if say the thief turns back and shoots and the police car bursts, a person will start screaming.
Now actually, nothing has happened to them, but because their emotions are so invested in the video game, they get agitated by that. So for us, becoming spiritual means understanding that we are different from the video game. Since we are different from the movie, we are different from the video game.
Now, what does it mean practically to say that this whole thing is everything that we’re experiencing right now is like a movie screen or like a video game? It doesn’t mean that it is unimportant. It just means that it is not the essence of who we are. Our essence is separate from all this.
And we have to work in this world so that we better realize our essence also. Bhagavad Gita says that we are spiritual. And how do we realize that we are spiritual? At one level, through intellectual reflection, like what we are doing right now.
We can understand, okay, I’m different from all this. So when we are, this intellectual reflection also can give us some perspective. In the previous session, I talked about how we all need meaning in our life.
Now, sometimes things happen in such a way that things just don’t make sense. I don’t know why suddenly somebody gets a terrible disease. Suddenly somebody meets an accident.
Suddenly for some reason, a relationship breaks up. For some reason, for no seeming reason, not some reason, for no seeming reason, suddenly somebody loses a job. Things can go wrong in so many different ways in life.
And if we are trying to look for why did this happen? We can try to make sense of things. But some things may make sense, some things may not make sense. So when we understand that this is a movie, and I’m different from it, then we don’t feel so threatened or so devastated by that.
Still, it distresses us, no doubt, because we are invested in what we are doing. But it’s a matter of magnitude. If we are, say, we are, some people are like fanatical cricket fans.
Some people are mild cricket fans. Some people have no interest in cricket. Somebody, you know, last year, I think, there was, last year, this year, the cricket champions trophy was there, India-Pakistan in the finals.
And India was expected to win, but India lost in a very bad way. So one boy, he told me that, after that final, I couldn’t sleep for three nights. So I told him that the cricket player is probably they went and slept.
So what happened is too emotionally invested in that. He was in India, that match happened in England. But he is too so fixated in that, that he got too involved.
But if somebody is a mild cricket fan, okay, India lost, you feel a little bad, but move on with life. Somebody who has no interest in cricket says, why are people so excited about? What is there to be excited about? So it’s the investment of emotion that causes how much we are affected. In 13.20, Krishna says that in the material world, the cause and effect, this will lead to this, this is determined by material nature.
But the happiness and distress that is experienced is determined by the desire to enjoy. So cause and effect, material nature is a little, this cause will lead to disaffect. But what effect will, what result or effect in the material world, how it will affect me, whether it will cause me happiness or distress, that is, Purusha Sukha Dukhana Bhoktrutve Hetruchyate, is by the desire to enjoy.
Say for example, say a cricket match is there, last ball, the team needs a sixer to win the match. And then the bowler bowls, and the batsman hits. And the batsman hits and the ball just crosses over the boundary and falls out, it’s a sixer.
Now, material nature we can tell by the laws of physics, okay, this ball was hit with this much force by the bat. And he tried in the middle of the bat, and that’s why it crossed over the fence. So that cause and effect is determined by material nature.
But say the team that wins, they are jubilant. And the team that loses, they are devastated. So the event is the same.
But the perception of the event, the ball went over the fence. Why the ball went over the fence, in terms of mechanics, it can be explained through the laws of physics. But in terms of who experiences what emotion because of that, that is determined by how the consciousness is invested.
Based on the desire to enjoy, we experience emotions. So now, this implies that the events in the world will happen by their own cause effect pattern. But if we don’t want to get so distressed by it, if we don’t want to be so emotionally affected, then we have to make sure that we are not so emotionally invested in those things.
So spirituality means that we understand that I am the inner seer, different from the inner screen. And to the extent I understand this, that I am the inner seer, different from the inner screen and different from the outer scene. To that extent, even if bad things happen, I don’t get so disturbed by it.
So my identity and my purpose are bigger than whatever is happening on the inner screen. Some people may play a video game. If they lose the video game, they feel a little bad, but they have their own life.
They go on with their life. Okay, I have my family, I have my job, I go this, I do that. But some people playing the video game is their life.
Everything else is like a filler. The most important part of their life is when do I get in front of a screen and start playing the video game. When that happens, if they start losing in the video game, they just get completely disoriented because they’re too invested over there.
So becoming spiritual means understanding that I’m a soul and whatever I’m doing in this world is a role I’m playing. It’s an important role I have to play, but it is still a role. I am different from this.
Then whatever goes wrong, we don’t get so disturbed by it. Another thing is that with respect to making sense of things, if I understand that I am different from whatever is happening on the screen, that means that whatever I’m seeing on that screen is just like one episode. Sometimes there will be a, there may be a TV serial with many different episodes and say one episode the hero is just being beaten, beaten, beaten, beaten.
What kind of, what kind of, the hero is not winning, the villain is simply beating the hero. But then if you wait, in future episodes, the things will turn out. So if I understand that I am different from this TV screen, I’m simply watching it.
So one life, our present life is like one episode and this episode before this many things have happened and after this also many things will happen. This, if I look for meaning within this life’s perspective itself, sometimes you just not be able to find the meaning. Why? Because this is just a finite perspective.
So normally we all operate based on the presumption of cause and effect, not only science but even day-to-day life. Say if you come back home and say some family member, they have a scar on their hand. And immediately ask, what happened? The question, what does it mean? That means, this effect is there, the scar, that means it must have a cause.
So whenever we see an effect, we assume there is a cause. And we all function based on the assumption or presumption of cause and effect. We eat food, we get energy.
So if I’m feeling tired, would you like to eat something or you need to take some rest? Normally if you feel tired, we take some food or we take some rest. And normally these lead to our developing energy. So the cause is taking food or taking the rest.
The result is getting energy. But sometimes the cause does not lead to the effect. Say if I have, my digestive system is upset.
Then if I eat, I feel more disturbed, I feel more distressed. I may become sick. And eating food may actually drain me at that time.
Sometimes if I sleep, but even I have nightmares. Then after waking up, I don’t feel fresh. I feel more tired.
I feel more exhausted. So normally cause A leads to effect B. And we think that is all that there is to it. A will lead to B. But there is much more over there that we don’t even know about.
We eat food and we get energy. But in between there is a whole process of digestion. But we don’t think about it at all.
The only time we think about our digestion is when it doesn’t work. So the point I am making here is with respect to we assume cause and effect is there. But when cause A does not produce effect B, which is normally what we expect, then we don’t think there is no causal connection.
I think something else must be going on. If I’m eating, I’m not feeling energy, then I start thinking, what is going on? Maybe there’s something wrong with my digestive system. So actually when things happen in the world, in the outer world, if we just look for cause A producing effect B, then although that theory, action produces reaction, that works within a limited framework.
But sometimes it doesn’t work. Just like I talk about Newtonian physics, normally it works. But at expanded realm, the subatomic realm and the universal realm, it doesn’t work.
So similarly, in our normal experience, cause produces effect. I study well and I get good marks in my exam. I study poorly, I don’t do well in my exam.
So cause produces effect. Now, recently I was at a university, and after that a student asked a question. He was asking many questions.
And before that, the devotee told me that he said that I’m an atheist. So then he asked the question, why do bad things happen to good people? So I asked him, why should bad things not happen to good people? What do you mean? Yeah, I’m asking you, why should bad things not happen to good people? No, good people are good, good things should happen to them. People are bad, bad things should happen to them.
Why? What do you mean why? I said, if there is no guiding principle in the universe, then anything can result in anything. So why should we expect that good people should get good results, and bad people should get bad results? The very assumption, the very question that why do bad things happen to good people, that implies the assumption that there is a correlation between causes and effects. I’m asking why do you assume this correlation is there? But how can bad things happen to good people? No, I’m asking why is this correlation there? Atheists, sometimes they use this as a fundamental question to beat theists.
They say, if God is good, then why are bad things happening to people? Why is there so much evil in the world? We can turn around, why should there be no evil in the world? In fact, in the atheistic worldview, there is no soul, ultimately there is no consciousness. There is just matter interacting with matter. Then actually there is no conception of good or bad also.
No, as I said earlier, if I take my phone out and cause it to fall down, well, it is simply following the law of gravity. There is nothing good, nothing bad about it. It is following the law of gravity.
But if there is a glass object which falls, it will break, and that’s bad, because there is something value in it, which value is lost, functionality is lost. But if we consider that ultimately everything is the interaction of matter, one material particle interacting with another material particle, then there is the whole idea of good and bad is itself an illusion. Because who is it that is experiencing good or bad? What is it that is the experience of good or bad? Like I earlier said, if we go back to the point of inner seer, inner screen and outer scene.
So science focuses only on the outer scene. And that too, in the outer scene, the measurable aspects of the outer scene. So within the scientific worldview, there is nothing which is intrinsically good or bad.
Science can tell us that, say, if you put arsenic in your grandmother’s breakfast, you can get your inheritance faster. Now, I don’t think scientists will tell us to do that. Science can give us this knowledge.
Now, whether to do it or not, bad, science itself does not offer any judgment about that. Science is not immoral, but nor is science moral. It is what is called as, it is amoral.
Amoral means morality is not a consideration within it. Science just tells, this cause will produce this effect. Whether that is for good or bad, that we don’t know.
There is a Journal of Medical Ethics, in which two prominent atheist scientists, they wrote a paper about one and a half years ago. And they said that a woman should be allowed the right to abort her child, even after the child is born. Even if the baby is born, she should be allowed to abort the child.
Now, that paper created a huge furore. They said, a baby is born, how can you kill that child? And their argument was, this was Journal of Biomedical Ethics is one of the most prominent journals in the medical world. They published it over there.
And then a huge storm came up. And their response was, don’t be sentimental. They said, from the scientific perspective, whether the embryo is inside, whether the child is inside the mother’s womb or outside the mother’s womb, there is no difference.
If you can abort the child when it is inside, then what is wrong in aborting the child when it is outside? So, they were saying that they were logical. We are just being logical. Don’t be sentimental.
But actually, the fact is that yes, there is essentially no difference between the child inside the mother’s womb and outside the mother’s womb. And that would imply that even killing the child in the mother’s womb is wrong. But the point I’m making over here is, they’re saying that from the biological perspective, the child is a lump of matter.
And that lump of matter is inside or it’s outside. The physical location does not make any difference to its status. Now, we will, most of us, almost all of us will recoil in horror at the idea of killing a child who is born.
But if we just go from the scientific perspective, there is no difference between the child inside and child outside. But the fact is that the scientific picture is not the complete picture. There is a living person over there.
So, I’m talking about all this to raise the point that normally, when we look for cause-effect correlation, we’re talking about this person asking, why do bad things happen to good people? So, what is the basis for deciding anything is good or bad? The scientific worldview itself does not offer us anything. Scientists can be good people, no doubt. Atheists may also be good people at times.
But there is no basis for their goodness. Maybe they were brought up in a culture which taught them to be good people. Maybe they were from a past impressions, whatever they are, they are good people by that.
But there is no ultimate rationale for them to be good. Because ultimately, the good and bad are the subjective notions. Einstein was very disturbed by this aspect of scientism.
See, science is a valid body of knowledge. But scientism is the idea that science alone can explain everything. Scientism, like we have communism, socialism, nationalism.
So, scientism is the idea that science alone can explain everything about everything. So, scientism makes science into God. So, he said that, say the Nazis who killed millions of Jews, the estimates range from 8 million to more than 10 million.
So, he said that if we consider purely the scientistic worldview, not scientific worldview, scientism, its objective is scientistic. So, if we explain that science and scientism is true, then we can’t hold the Nazis responsible for killing anyone. Why? Because ultimately, they simply acted according to the way their brain was programmed.
We are all programmed machines, because within the scientific worldview, everything obeys the laws of nature. So, if this phone is dropped, it has no free will whether to fall or not. It will simply fall.
So, like that, we all are programmed to act in particular ways. So, the Nazis were programmed to kill, and they killed. So, he says, they can’t be held responsible.
Now, he said that this is a profoundly troubling conclusion. Because in all our relationships, we function the foundational assumption that people are accountable. If say, a person comes to us suddenly and slaps us.
Hey, why did you slap me? The neurons in me told me to slap you. The neurons in me told me to slap you. We are responsible, we are accountable.
All systems of justice, all systems of accountability would collapse if we assume that we have no free will. So, the search for meaning, the search for cause of a correlation requires the assumption that there is some cause of a correlation. And that cause of a correlation cannot be explained in a materialistic world.
There is some higher reality beyond the material, which has infused the world with the order, which has infused the world with morality. This is right, this is wrong. Specifically, what is right and what is wrong in different situations may vary.
But the principle that there is right and wrong, that is something which is universal. Now, where has it come from? So, that is something which we need to, we need a deeper, we need a reality beyond the material to explain that. So, let me put these pieces together.
I started in the previous session, we talked about how we need meaning, but sometimes in the world we may not find meaning. Then in this session, I talked about how there is an inner, there is an inner seer, the outer, the inner screen and the outer scene. So, understanding that there is an inner seer, it gives us a security by which we can not be affected when on the outer scene, things don’t make sense.
We don’t get devastated by things going wrong. Now, having got that security in our spirituality, we are seeing, with the spirituality, can we make sense of what happens in the outer scene? So, in answering that, the question which we are discussing is, without spirituality, why should anything make sense at all? So, the very assumption that things should make sense requires some principle of order. Good things should produce, good, people who do good should get good results, or that there is an idea of good and bad, all this requires some foundational assumption which is not there in matter.
Matter is simply interacting. Einstein, to say on a lighter note, he said, you know, gravity can explain the falling of objects, but it can’t explain people’s falling in love. It’s a different category of reality.
So, the very fact that we can make sense of things in the outer world requires something beyond matter by which this order is present. So, that reality, which is the foundational of material reality, and that which gives order to material reality, that is the spiritual reality. So, I’ll make two points and then we’ll stop.
This whole subject is very big. I don’t want to go into the full subject of destiny and karma right now. But, I said earlier that this life that we experience is like an episode.
And, you know, in this episode, what is happening, some of the things can be explained, you know, this person shouted at this person, that’s why this person is angry with this person. But, two people might just have enmity. And why they have their enmity, we may not, in this episode, it’s assumed that they are enemies.
But why they are enemies, we may have to look at the previous episodes to know why it’s happened. So, it’s also a continuation. So, some events in an episode can be understood just by watching that episode.
But to understand some episodes, some events, we may need to look at the previous episodes. So, similarly, for us in life, some things make sense based on this life’s causation itself. I spoke harshly to that person, that’s why that person is so angry with me.
Now that person is on a campaign to malign me. But, sometimes, we may just be doing nothing, but that person is just angry with us, you know. They’re telling like this about this, like this about this, just on, for practically nothing we have done, but they are on a big mission, mission against us, mission to destroy us.
So, why is that? For understanding that, we have to go to a previous episode. Previous episode means what happens in this life is not determined by our actions in this life alone. So, I said about how there are cause and effect.
Normally, we see cause of a correlation and we think this cause alone produce that effect. However, there is much more that is going on. So, you put it this way that, in English, you can, I’ll put this equation of how things happen.
We are looking, if you look at the previous episodes, and then we try to make sense. So, in Sanskrit, we say it as karma plus daiva plus kala leads to phala. Karma is our present activity, what I am doing right now.
Daiva is my destiny. Destiny is basically the sum total of whatever actions I have done in the past. And they also intervene to produce results.
That is daiva. Then kala is time. Time has to pass and then comes phala.
Phala is the result. So, two simple examples to understand this. If a farmer is plowing the land and sowing the seeds, that is the karma.
Then the rains coming on time in the right quantity, that is daiva. The seasons changing till the harvesting season comes, that is kala. And then after that, there is the harvest, that is the phala.
Say a couple get married and then they want to have a child. They’re uniting, that is the karma. But it’s not that every time union happens, conception will happen.
There is something more that is required. That is daiva. And even if conception has happened, after that, it’s not the next day you’ll have a baby.
There is a period of gestation. That is kala. And then there is phala.
And the child is born. So, put in English, we could say karma is duty, daiva is destiny, and kala is duration, time duration. So, there are four Ds.
Duty plus destiny plus duration leads to desired result. So, all three have to be there, duty, destiny. Duty doesn’t, sometimes the word duty in English has a negative connotation.
You have to do it. Duty basically means the action that we do. So, the duty plus destiny plus duration leads to a desired result.
So, now sometimes it may happen that we do something right, but still the right result doesn’t come. That is because if I think my duty only produces the result, or my karma produces the phala, then I am mistaken. There is this well-known verse in the Bhagavad Gita, karmanyeva adhikaraste ma phaleshu kadachana.
Ma karma phala he turbhur, ma te sangostva karmani. 2.47 in the Gita. So, I was at university and one student, he was non-Indian.
So, he was studying this Bhagavad Gita as a part of religious studies, and he says, this, this verse makes no sense to me. He says, you know, we work to get the results. He says, I pick up a glass of water to drink water.
If I say I don’t work for the results, it’s like drinking, it’s like drinking from a glass that has no water in it. What is the point of drinking? You drink from a glass with water. So, the result is what motivates us to do things.
So, if we are not to be attached to results, then why would we do anything at all? So, I was explaining to him that the Bhagavad Gita is not telling us, don’t try for the result. It is saying, don’t be attached to the result. Karmanyeva adhikaraste, you are right to do your work.
The result is not yours alone. Why? Do not think that you alone are the cause of the result. If you consider this equation, karma, daiva, kala leads to phala, then if I think my karma will lead to the phala, then that is moha.
My karma alone will lead to the phala, that is moha, that is illusion. So, Krishna is saying, don’t think you are the producer of the result, you are the cause of the result. Of course, we are the cause in the sense that we are one cause.
You know, we are one cause of the result, but we are not the sole cause of the result. So, sole cause means, I do the action, the result is bound to come. But karma, the daiva also has to work out right, and then kala has to pass, and then the phala will come.
So, Krishna is saying, ma karma phala he turbud, not think you are the cause of the result, and mate sangostva karmani. At the same time, do not be attached to not doing your work, because doing your work, your duty is what will help you to grow, even if it doesn’t provide the result immediately. So, sometimes our action may not produce the desired result.
And that is when we start feeling, what is going on in my life? You know, we start doing a particular, we invest a lot in a relationship and suddenly things backfire. We invest a lot in a career and suddenly, you know, somebody may work very hard to develop a career in a particular field and suddenly that field itself goes down. And then, what do I do? So, we put in an effort and we don’t get the result.
How many of you have this experience that you worked very hard for something, but the result didn’t come out? Everybody has that experience. And now, how many of you have the experience, in some things, you did not put in much effort, but still a great result came out? Isn’t it? So, actually, we can say that life works both ways. Sometimes we do a little karma and a lot of fallacons.
Sometimes we do a lot of karma and practically no fallacons. So, what is happening over here is that our karma is simply the trigger. And the daiva also plays a part in it.
Some people, they, normally, there’s a cause-effect correlation, karma and fallacons. Now, if you eat too much, your health will get spoiled, you’ll become fat. If you eat too little, you’ll become too thin, you’ll become too weak.
The normal correlation is there between our eating and our health and fitness. Now, some people, they just eat a little bit something wrong here and there and a really big problem comes up. Their health gets spoiled.
Now, some other people, you know, they treat their tongue like a conveyor belt. And nothing seems to happen to them. They eat so much, they stay fit, healthy, nothing is happening.
So, what is happening over here? The karma, it doesn’t seem to correlate with the falla. Why is that? Because the daiva is different in different people. The destiny, some people, by their destiny, are meant to have a sickly body.
And a small thing going wrong immediately causes sickness in them. But some people, by their destiny, are meant to have a healthy body. So, no matter what they eat, they just stay healthy, they stay fit.
So, what happens? If we think only in terms of karma and falla correlation, sometimes things will make sense, but sometimes they may not make sense. So, at that time, just like in science and Newtonian physics did not make sense, science did not abandon the idea that universe makes sense. They thought of a bigger theory.
So, normally karma and falla, the correlation makes sense. But there are times when it doesn’t make sense, that time we need a bigger theory. That is, that there is daiva and there is kala.
That we all, the results that we get in this life are not determined by the actions that we do in this life alone. They are also determined by the actions that we have done in our previous life. And that expanded frame of reference by which I see that this life is like an episode and the way people are behaving with me, the way things are happening to me is not determined only by how I am acting in this life.
It is also determined by how I acted in my previous life. So, when we expand the frame of reference to include the previous life, then we can make better sense of the things that otherwise make no sense. Now, still, we will not be able to make specific sense of everything.
We will not, because we don’t remember what exactly we did in the previous life. So, we can’t make sense of exactly, you know, why is this person acting like this? Why is this person acting, why is this happening to me? But the important thing is we understand that there is a bigger picture. And if I am doing good right now, even if I am not getting the result right now, the result will come eventually.
So, this expanded frame of reference will come through spirituality. And it will not come if I just think spirituality means anything which makes me feel good. Because then I am not really expanding my frame of reference.
All that I am saying is right now I want to feel good. But when we expand the frame of reference, then we understand that beyond this life and before this life, there is more to life. And therefore, even if things don’t make sense, let me not lose heart.
Let me not lose hope. Let me continue on doing the best that I can. And eventually good things will result.
So, this expanded frame of reference is what consoles Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita. In the Bhagavad Gita, when he thinks, oh, how can I fight against my relatives? How can I kill them? He says, when he sees like that, how can I? He says, they are meant to be worshipped by me. How can I shoot arrows at them? So, it’s true.
They were worshipable seniors for him. But when he got the expanded frame of reference, that they are not the bodies, they are the souls. And as souls, they have done a lot of good things, they’ll get the good results for that.
But they also did some bad things. They remained silent when Draupadi was being dishonored. So, they have to get the consequences for that.
So, if those consequences go out of their way, then they will get spiritually elevated. So, when he saw this bigger picture, then what he had to do started making sense for him. So, similarly, it is spirituality that gives us a bigger picture.
And what that bigger picture is, and how it can help us to find meaning and purpose in our life when difficulties come, that we’ll discuss more in our next session. I’ll summarize what I spoke today. I spoke about how science cannot provide meaning, that was in the previous session, and how spirituality can provide us meaning.
So, I started by talking about how people think spirituality means anything that makes them feel good. It is good if you are feeling bad to feel good. But that alone is not spiritual.
Spirituality is not just a state of experience, but it is a level of reality. To explain this, we did the thought experiment of the inner screen and the inner seer. So, what people think of spirituality is having good things appear on our inner screen.
But becoming truly spiritual means understanding that I am the inner seer beyond the screen. So, if we are too caught in watching a horror movie, then we will be very disturbed. If I just understand, I am different from this horror movie.
The amount of agitation will substantially decrease. So, the soul is like the sky. And the events that are happening in the world, and the emotions that we experience because of those events, they are like the clouds.
They matter, but ultimately the sky is bigger, the sky is much more enduring. So, just by remembering our spirituality, intellectually understanding our spirituality, we can become less agitated when things go wrong and don’t make sense at the physical or the mental level. Then we discuss why should things make sense at the physical or mental level at all.
If there were no spiritual level at all, then at the material level, there is no reason why there should be correlation between good and bad, or good cause and good effect, good action and good results. Or there should not even be a conception of good or bad. So, scientism is not science, it is the ideology built around science, which claims that science alone can explain everything.
But science cannot even tell us whether it is right or wrong to poison someone or to abort someone. Because science simply uses this biological, this physical mechanism will lead to this physical result. But whether it is right or wrong, that is a different category of decision.
So, that that is good or bad, that is a universal human sense. And that is the basis of all our accountability and relationships, all systems of justice. So, this comes not from matter, but something non-matter.
And then if we understand that, that soul is going through many lifetimes. So, each lifetime is like an episode. So, normally, we see cause effect correlation in terms of immediate, this cause, this effect.
I eat, I get energy. But sometimes, when I eat and I don’t get energy, that means I have to look at some invisible factor. The factor that is normally visible is, oh digestion, I assume it should work, but when it doesn’t work, I think about it.
So, karma normally leads to phala and we think there is nothing more. But beyond, but karma and phala are not alone there. Karma, daiva and kala leads to phala.
So, daiva is destiny, which is determined by what we have done in a previous life. We talked about harvesting crops or having a child or somebody eating and staying, eating a lot and staying healthy and somebody eating a little wrong and becoming unhealthy. So, when we have this expanded frame of reference, then we can make sense of things which do not make sense within the limited frame of reference.
That’s how spirituality can help us find meaning and purpose by giving us a broader frame of reference, by helping us to understand that we are beyond whatever is happening at the physical or mental level of reality. So, thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
Are there any questions or comments? Yes, Dharipram, you comment. Somebody else has a microphone. Oh, you don’t? Okay, fine.
You know, it’s a comment just about the doctors, I guess, who are medical people who said it’s okay to kill a baby at any age. You know, the ten years old. Yeah, that’s true.
Thank you. If they’re going to use that logic, you know. So, I think it’s a good thing what they’re saying because no one would agree to that.
And so, why should you kill a baby in the womb? So, I think that’s good. Another thing that you said, first of all, I liked everything you said, but I can’t remember everything. Thank you.
Another thing you said that I liked was, you know, without God, basically, there’s no right and wrong. There has to be some, you know, there’s a song from 45 years ago, a group called Blind Faith, which is a nice name for a blind faith, and it says, what’s right or wrong is hard to say. Forget about it for today.
We’ll stick our heads into the sand and pretend that all is granted. That’s beautiful. So, without God, it’s like, you don’t know.
Nobody, you know, and then we used to say, you know, before being devotees, if you know what’s right for me, it may not be right for you. You know, because we didn’t have any idea that there’s actually an absolute, there’s a right and there’s a wrong. Of course, even the right and wrong gets tricky sometimes.
You know, even whether they can disrobe Draupadi or not was a whole big question, because she’s no longer your property, but how could she not be your property, you know? So, it’s not always easy to know just the gray area of what’s right or wrong, but ultimately we do know, whatever Krishna wants, that’s right, and what he doesn’t want, that’s wrong. And that’s the only way we can know really right from wrong. Otherwise, it’s really, it’s, you know, anybody can say anything.
So, I really like that point that, you know, talking to the atheists. And how do they come about their right and wrong? It’s simply by, I guess, popular… Yeah, popular conceptions, popular vote. Yeah, that’s true.
This moral relativity is very common today. What you think is good for you is right for you is right for you. So, I was at, I was speaking at Amazon in Silicon Valley, and there I was talking about moral relativity.
Somebody asked this question, you know, why do you say that whatever is right for you is right for you? I said, okay, are there, is there anyone in the world right now, who you think is doing something wrong? Yes, of course, you know, there are terrorists who are killing innocent people, there are child abusers who are abusing, there are rapists who are raping. He says, but there are terrorists, jihadis who are killing innocent people, do they think they are doing wrong? No, they think they are doing right. So, does it make it right? No, it doesn’t.
So, then that means that there is some standard of morality, which is beyond people’s conceptions. So, after that, one Amazon executive, he was a middle level executive, he came and told us that. So, I agree with you, he said that even in their company, they have this, they have this whole section apparel, apparel is clothes.
So, when they have women’s apparel, they show women with those clothes. But for girls apparel, they said, we do not show girls with clothes. Because we don’t want to encourage pedophilia in any way.
We don’t want to encourage child abuse in any way. So, that means even a company which is out to earn money, they also have a sense, this is wrong. So, the specifics of what is right and wrong is a matter for later discussion.
But the principle that is there is right and wrong. Once we separate the two, what people feel is you will impose your morality on me. And I don’t want that.
Fine, I won’t impose my morality on you. But first, the principle that is right and wrong, that has to be universally accepted. That is universal.
The specifics can come later. If people equate the specifics with the principle, then their resistance to the specifics causes them resistance to the principle also. Now, I don’t like this, so I won’t accept the principle of morality.
But nobody can live without the principle of right and wrong. Thank you. Hare Krishna Prabhuji.
Thank you for the wonderful class. So, this idea of a seer and the screen, so this understanding that I am a seer, is that at the level of the intellect, at the level of the subtle body, or is it at the level of the soul? And a related question to that is, like all of these emotions, love and hate, are these at the level of the subtle body or are they at the level of the soul? And all of the rasas that we interact with Krishna, if it’s at the level of the subtle body, then how is it spiritual? So, the understanding that I am the inner seer, not the inner screen, is this intellectual or spiritual? It is at present intellectual. At least at the intellectual reflection, we understand that there is a reality beyond the physical and even beyond the mental.
एवं बुद्धे परं बुद्ध्वा सम्स्थभ्यात्मानमात्मण जहिषत्रुम् महाभाहो कामरूपं दुरासिदम् So, it says, एवं बुद्धे, in 3.23, it says, with your intelligence, एवं बुद्धे परं बुद्ध्वा, know that you are transcendental. सम्स्थभ्यात्मानमात्मण In this way, situate your consciousness on the spiritual level. And if we slowly practice the process of, study the practice of process of bhakti, then gradually our consciousness starts rising to the spiritual level.
Right now our consciousness is very invested in the physical scenes or the mental screen. But as we keep practicing bhakti more and more, our consciousness starts becoming more situated in the inner seer. And then near the inner seer is the supreme seer.
That is Krishna. So eventually, as we start, as our spiritual consciousness starts becoming more and more awakened, then we can start perceiving Krishna directly. So that is when we, for us, this understanding that I am the inner seer goes from the level of being intellectual to becoming experiential.
We get a realization of that. And as far as the emotions that we experience, are they mental or are they spiritual? Right now, most of the emotions that we experience are coming from the mind. Not coming in the sense of originating.
Rather, they are being stimulated by the mind. The soul who is born in the Indian body is very excited about cricket. A soul who is born in the American body might be excited about basketball.
A soul in the Canadian body might be excited about ice hockey. Whatever, different games. So why is it? The soul is similar.
The difference is in the impressions that are there in the mind. The mind is the inner screen. So, similarly for us, at present, most of our emotions, they come from the impressions that are there in the mind.
So we could say they are material emotions. But at the same time, the process of bhakti doesn’t just involve intellectually thinking I am the inner seer. That is one aspect we can use.
But bhakti means we bring Krishna onto the outer scene. And we bring Krishna on the inner screen. So, for example, we come to the temple, take darshan of the deities, then that is Krishna manifesting on the outer scene.
And if we keep taking darshan of the deities, in some traditional temple they say no photography allowed. There is a commercial reason and there is a transcendental reason. The commercial reason is they want to sell photos.
The transcendental reason is that they say that actually when you come to that temple, your heart should be like a camera. You take in darshan of the lord and take the photograph of the lord over there and cherish that memory with you. So the idea is that when we take darshan very intensely with devotion, then that outer, what has appeared on the outer screen gets impressed on the inner screen.
So at present, we, what we experience when we are practicing bhakti, is partly material, partly spiritual. So some of us may like to sing about Krishna. Now, some of us might have liked to sing earlier and now we are singing about Krishna.
So while singing about Krishna, some of the pleasure we get is because we are singing about Krishna. And some of the pleasure is because people appreciate me for singing so nicely. The both, the material and spiritual is there.
But gradually as we keep practicing bhakti, we start realizing that the connection with Krishna actually gives greater satisfaction. And then the world’s glorification is there, it will come and it will go. But let me focus on the connection with Krishna.
And then as we, by this process, we, this one process is we create spiritual impressions on the mind. We bring in spiritual stimuli in the outer screen. But by this, the soul’s spiritual faculty also awakens.
And then when the soul’s spiritual faculty starts activated, becoming activated, the soul starts perceiving Krishna. And then that is where it’s called the state of turiya or samadhi, where we perceive God at the spiritual level. That is when we attain spiritual perfection.
I have a question, but I have a lot of questions. So I just want to understand about this, that in the real world, towards the goal, a desired goal to achieve, how can we remain detached or an observer in that situation? Because if we remain observer, we may not arrive to the result. We are a doer.
We actually do a lot many things to achieve something. So if while functioning in the world, we become observers, then how can we be doers? And we have to be doers to get the results. The two are not necessarily contradictory.
They can be being observer and being a doer. Say, for example, right now I’m answering a question. So while I’m answering a question, I’m speaking something and I’m trying to speak as clearly as I can.
So that’s how I’m a doer. At the same time, I’m observing, you know, is if I start seeing a blank stares everywhere, then that gives me an, OK, I’m not actually explaining clearly. So this is we don’t necessarily observe and do as two separate phases.
Information processing when we do, we do it both in parallel. If I’m driving a car and we see that the car in front of us has got a red light, it’s stopped. As soon as that observation happens, then immediately our leg goes on the brake and it stops our car.
So the two don’t necessarily have to be separated. The two can be together also. Although, of course, there can be phases.
So sometimes when the heat of action, at that time we are observing and doing, but it’s all about immediate things. But then there are times when we withdraw, we reflect on our long term purposes in life, our long term plan and whether what we are doing is aligned with our values. That is a period for reflection.
So there can be times when we are more prominently observers and there are times when we are more prominently doers. But we need both. And as far as getting results is concerned, we do seek the results, but we don’t become attached to the results.
See the Bhagavad Gita uses a specific word phala. Phala is the result. But if we consider result, we could use another word is goal.
So the Bhagavad Gita is not telling us don’t set goals. In fact, after the Bhagavad Gita was spoken, the Kurukshetra war was fought. And in the Kurukshetra war, every day Arjuna would set goals.
Today I am going to fight with this warrior. Today I am going to fight, combat this division of the army. War is serious business.
Proper planning is required. So they would set goals. And Krishna didn’t tell, Krishna was the charioteer of Arjuna.
Krishna didn’t tell Arjuna when Arjuna was setting goals, Hey, you forgot Karmanyavadikas. No. So what is the difference between setting goals and being attached to results? See goals are what we set before we do the action.
And they enable us to become more wholehearted in the action that we are doing. But results are what come after the action is done. And attachment to results distracts us from future action.
Say student has got 5 papers to give. And student said, I want to get grade A. That is the goal they have set. And they have given one paper.
And after they have given one paper, now they have to give the second paper. So A, after giving the first paper, they are still thinking, will I get grade A in this? Will I not? How much marks will I get? How much will I score? Then that attachment to the result will distract them from preparing for the next paper. So basically, setting goals can increase our focus.
But being attached to results will decrease our focus. So in that sense, we can set goals, but we don’t be attached to results. Understanding that we alone don’t produce the results.
The Bhagavad Gita also says we are the doers. Krishna tells Arjuna, do as you desire. And Arjuna also says, I’ll do your will.
But the Bhagavad Gita also says, one who thinks I am the doer is an illusion. What that verse means is, one who thinks I alone am the doer is an illusion. tatraivam sati kartaram atmanam kevalam turih pashyatya akruta buddhitvan na sa pashyati durmatihi In 18 points, Krishna says, therefore, one who thinks that I alone am the doer, that the person is not seeing completely, and that person is an illusion.
So we do the best that we can, but we also need to have more of observer so that we don’t get overwhelmed by the emotions that arise because of situations. And we also need to be observer, so that if sometimes results don’t come out, we are able to see things in perspective. Any other questions? A few comments, and the point you made, could it be, I mean, I’m in complete concert with whatever you’re saying, agreement with that, but in general, I’ve seen these questions asked by so many people, and I’ve tried my best to explain in some way, but what you’re saying can also be explained in, mostly it’s called theory of convenience, right? If we sow seeds, and we don’t expect crop, and just leave it on the elements, then that’s not a complete circle, right? If the water doesn’t come out, then it’s great.
Or we can use artificial water and provide artificial processes and make it happen. But every action is there, also being explained by some other theory, which is non-religious, which doesn’t come with a comprehension of previous words. So, sometimes it’s considered as whatever we are not able to explain, in today’s details, the facts which we have, we go back to a bigger theory, which is past words, and we try to connect this with another.
For example, in Big Bang theory, they said that the bang happened, but we don’t know the cause of that bang. Don’t ask that question. The bang happened, anything beyond that, we can try to explain.
So this theory of bigger expansion, bigger framework, is not too convenient to say, for that matter. And once we, one more follow-up on that. Once we are in Krishna Bhakti, then we are really not doing any karma.
We are in a karma state. So, now from this point on, are we not actually doing anything which is going to help us in the next birth test? Okay, that’s a separate question. Let’s take one question at a time.
So, just whenever we are not able to make sense of things, we assume that there is a bigger picture, so that’s convenient for us, so that we can make sense of things. So, why should we assume that there is a bigger picture? Because can non-religious theories also explain why things happen the way they do? It’s not necessarily a matter of convenience, it’s just a matter of expanding perspective. A particular explanation is sufficient at a particular level.
Say a small child, when he is being taught mathematics, he is told 3-5 is not possible. And that’s what is required at that level. When a child goes into slightly higher level of mathematics, 3-5 is minus 2. So what has happened? The perspective has expanded.
So, basically the world is bigger than our conceptions. So, Francis Bacon was one of the pioneers of the empirical method. He said that the world should not be shrunk to fit our conceptions.
Rather, our conceptions should be expanded so that they can take the world in. What this would mean is that we do observe or we could say presume or both. We presume and we observe cause-effect correlation in the world.
So, as I said, good things do lead to good. If I study, I do get good marks. If I work hard, I get appreciated, I get promoted.
But sometimes it doesn’t happen. So, now when we are living in the world, we have broadly three options. One is that everything happens by chance.
So, we could call it the chance explanation. Ultimately non-religious, how do they explain it? Non-religious factors, why do things happen the way they do? Most of the time existentialism, which is a school of thought which developed in the last century, it just shows that, you know, as one existentialist philosopher, Albert Camus, he said that actually life is filled with misery. Therefore, the only philosophical question worth asking is whether to commit suicide today or tomorrow.
And he wrote volumes of books just to say don’t commit suicide today. So, actually it’s not that there are necessarily unlimited variety of explanations of why things happen the way they do. We could say there are broadly three explanations.
One is that things just happen by chance. If we say things happen by chance, the problem is we don’t function like that. We do assume and we do see cause-effect correlation.
So, then that means some things happen by chance, some things happen by cause-effect correlation. So, why certain causes are correlated with cause-effects, that’s by chance. Chance theory is basically a theory of, it reduces life to a cosmic lottery.
If you are lucky you win, if you are unlucky you lose. It’s a theory of helplessness, it’s a theory of meaninglessness. The other is that God does it.
This is the idea that is present in the Abrahamic religions which in their mainstream versions today don’t accept reincarnation. They have a lot of difficulty in explaining why bad things happen to good people, especially small children. Why do bad things happen to them? They have no explanation for that.
And quite often the idea, they often say that God’s ways of working are different from ours. God’s justice is different from ours. God’s intelligence is different from ours.
Yes, that’s true, but God’s intelligence is different in the sense that it is better than ours. If God is arbitrary doing anything to anyone in any way, then how can we devote ourselves to an arbitrary God like that? So a lot of the atheism in the world has come up not because atheism is a satisfactory explanation for life, rather it is because religion in its mainstream versions doesn’t offer a satisfactory explanation for life. So Abraham Lincoln, he said that democracy is a terrible form of government.
But it is the best among all terrible forms of government. So if people have just these two options, that there is arbitrary chance or there is an arbitrary God, then both are arbitrary, but I have to accept that God is arbitrary and still I have to become devoted to Him. That becomes too much of a demand.
So many people get pushed towards atheism because of that. But there could be a third option. The third option is that there is a multi-life procreation.
So to give an example, say if you are watching a cricket match, and we say that one team is starting with a score of 0, another team is starting with a score of 200. Why the difference? One thing we could say that the scoreboard is just messed up. By chance this team got a score of 200, by chance this team got a score of 0. That scoreboard is messed up.
Or we could say the scorekeeper is biased. The scorekeeper likes this team, so he will give more score to that. Third explanation could be that it is a multi-innings match.
And this team has scored better in the previous innings. That’s why they are starting with a lead of 200. So similarly, where we are in this life, if we consider the multi-life progression explanation, that is the most satisfactory explanation.
So we could approach it in two ways. One way is that scripture tells us, scripture is the authority, and it talks about multi-lifetimes and the soul and reincarnation. That is one way we accept scripture as authority and we move forward.
The other is we look from bottom up. From our level we look up and we see which among these three explanations is the most reasonable. Now arbitrary chance or arbitrary God are not very reasonable explanations.
Now even we could say that multi-life progression, does it explain everything? Does it explain everything in all its nuances and details? Specifics can be up for discussion. But the broad principle is that this is the most reasonable explanation. And were you there for the first session or you came just now? Okay, so then I explained in the previous session how… I heard this lecture.
I listened to it a lot. Okay. No, no, no.
I am saying, in the previous session how I explained, science itself also looks for bigger frames of reference. Science could not explain with classical Newtonian physics, the explanation of subatomic particles or the behavior of cosmic bodies. Then it expanded and came up with quantum physics and relativity.
So expanding our frame of reference so that we can explain things better is not just a matter of convenience. It’s a standard operating process in science, in day-to-day life, as in science and mathematics. And if that gives us a reasonable explanation, then dismissing that explanation as just inconvenience, well, that is reducing the point that we as human beings need to make sense of things, at least in terms of broad contours.
And if something makes sense, then why call it as a matter of convenience? Yeah, so apart from these three theories, I have not heard any other theory. Ultimately there is no explanation. It’s just by chance.
What is the original point of view you are making? Another team has a score of zero. That really doesn’t happen in real time, in real life. We are living in at least the life we are experiencing today.
I have never seen a match where someone gets 200 score and another team gets zero. That’s one more example which I have seen being constantly used in such premises. So overall, yes, above these three points which we have made, these three theories, we have to accept one.
And the most prudent one is which comes from the scripture, which is multilayered theory. We understand that. But it becomes very difficult for a person who are kind of engaged, trying to start the engagement in the Krishna consciousness or coming towards bhakti.
It’s not easy to explain. It’s not that I’m questioning, but the point is how well we can explain this little better that it makes, it comes out of the theory of convenience because it does. We get so many examples and same way the other theories get many, many examples, which are so strong and they can be explained.
Almost everything can be explained to the point where we take the scripture reference. I have seen that happen. So now if we can give various examples to explain or we may evade the original point and different theories may give different examples to explain different things.
Yes, as far as if we go to the bigger picture again, the soul has been given free will by God and free will means also that we have been given the scope to execute or exercise our free will. So if say there were overwhelming intellectual reason for us to surrender to God, then that would mean there is no free will at the intellectual level. Because all intellectual reasoning is pointing only in this direction.
Then it’s like say a boy tells a girl, please marry me. He offers her, covers her on her knees and offers her a flower. Please marry me.
She says no. He kicks out a gun. Marry me.
That is not free will at all. So God does not force us to believe in him. Scriptures don’t force us to believe in him.
At the end of the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says, Deliberate deeply and do as you desire. So the deliberation is what we are called upon. But after that how we act is up to us.
So suffice it to say that if we consider the spiritual aspect of life, the intellect can point us towards God. But if somebody wants to use the intellect to point elsewhere, they can also point elsewhere. It’s up to the individual.
It says that there is enough in this world for those who want to believe in God and there is enough in this world for those who want to disbelieve in God. So it depends on who sees what evidence. Now philosophically we can make different cases.
It ultimately boils down to free will. I have to choose. And we can choose also based on not just the intellectual aspect, but also on the experiential aspect.
I say faith has two aspects to it. Like blind faith or reasonable faith. Now reasonable faith has two characteristics.
It’s sensible and it’s verifiable. Sensible means, just if I go to a doctor and I have stomach pain, and doctor says you have to cut off your leg. What? If I cut off my leg, it doesn’t make sense.
So doctor says you have got acidity in your stomach and then you take this pill. Take this for one week, you’ll be alright. So then I can take it for one week and check whether it works.
So reasonable faith means before we do an activity we check whether it makes sense. And after we do an activity whether it produces the desired result. That’s verifiable.
So similarly at the level of intellect, we can find explanations at various levels. This makes sense, this makes sense, this makes sense. Because the soul has been given free will by God and there can be proponents of each theory who can come up with explanations that can just captivate people’s minds.
Because that’s the ability of the intelligence. But then verifiable. If I say there is no God, is there any scientific experiment or any kind of experiment I can do by which I can ever prove that there is no God? There is nothing.
But if there is a God and we can connect with him through Bhakti, then is there something which we can experience? The process of Bhakti you all use as a process. You do this, this will be the result. If you do this, this will be the result.
Anartha Nivrutti that will happen. Nishtha will happen. Ruchi will happen.
The lust, anger, greed, negativities will go down. Our virtues will come up. So there is a verifiable aspect which is there in Bhakti.
So now somebody may say who has seen this, who has experienced this? Well yes, as far as seeing God is concerned, that may be far away. But the practical transformation, many, many people have experienced it. So that’s why I say that when we are practicing our Bhakti, proving is one thing, but improving is much more important.
If we keep trying to prove this is right, this is wrong, this is wrong, then that argumentation can go on endlessly. Tarko apratishta shutayo vibhinna. But improving, if our own life improves, if we become better human beings, if people see, oh this is a nice person, then they become attracted.
So arguments are important to some extent. Not in argumentative mood, but in the mood of sharing knowledge. But ultimately it is not just arguments that attract people or transform hearts.
It is a transformed heart that inspires others to transform their hearts. So the great saints throughout history who are devoted to God and they have attracted people to God, it is not just because of their argumentative abilities. It is because of their saintly character.
So that’s why if we while introducing people to Krishna Bhakti, we can use some arguments and we can try to present things as much as possible. But beyond that, if we maintain culture, sensitive, gentle behavior with them, then that will attract them. So we’ll stop here and if there are more questions, we’ll have more, in one session we’ll have primarily question and answer, in third or fourth session we’ll have that later.
Thank you very much. Shlok Prabhupada ki. Jai.
Gaur Bhaktavrindu ki. Jai. Gaur Premananda.
Jai. His Grace Chaitanya Chahal Prabhu ki. Jai.
So we’ll take a lunch break, fire break, step outside for a few minutes break. So we’ll regroup at 3 p.m. sharp. This is IST, is constructed time.
It’s not Indian stretchable time. So 3 p.m. sharp we’ll regroup here. Prasadam will be served downstairs in the basement, free vegetarian feast.
So everybody should go down for honoring lunch.