Nourishing the creeper of devotion 2 – Regulate attachment even to things that help in devotion

[Chaitanya Charitamrita class at ISKCON, London, UK]

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This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
I mean no one has ever Hare Krishna good morning continue the discussion on nourishing the bhaktilata beach yesterday I focused about how the process of bhakti involves channelling our pure emotion towards Krishna and that involves that we create channels by which the emotion can move towards Krishna and ensure that the emotions don’t move towards elsewhere and while practising bhakti the other weeds can also grow in the heart and that means while trying to develop spiritual attachment we may get distracted by material attachments and that may divert us from the path of bhakti so in this verse they said that as this creeper grows and grows it transcends the material world and ultimately reaches the spiritual world and reaches Krishna’s abode and then as it the further process will be described its fruit blossoms the fruit grows it matures and it falls down so this falling of the fruit it means something significant that the fruit at one level we are all meant to go to the spiritual world but at another level the spiritual world is not just a geographical place it is first and foremost a level of consciousness Srila Prabhupada talks about how in the Christian conception they have the kingdom of God and we have to go to the kingdom of God but he says is this world not the kingdom of God here in this world also God is supreme so we sometimes have this universal the map of the existence where we say this is one universe these are all the universes and this is the border and beyond them is the spiritual world now for the sake of depiction that is ok but it is not that things are that simple its not that say say England is here and Scotland is here or Iceland is here the two they are just geographical neighbours but the material world and spiritual world they are not just geographical neighbours the spiritual world exists at a different level of reality and because it exists at a different level of reality that means that it is not just by physical transportation yes transportation is there we ultimately want to go to the spiritual world but the spiritual world is not just like another place in the material world it is not going there is not just a matter of physical relocation its essentially a matter of emotional redirection its to the extent we redirect our emotions towards Krishna to that extent we can go to the spiritual world in the 9th canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam the story of Durvasa Muni when he was being chased by the Sudarshan Chakra because he had offended Ambarish Maharaj and that Sudarshan Chakra was chasing him to punish him and Durvasa Muni by his mystic powers even went up to Vaikuntha to Lord Vishnu to petition help from him so he went to Vaikuntha but he had not attained Vaikuntha consciousness he was not in the spiritual world to serve the Supreme Lord he was then the spiritual world to seek the help of the Supreme Lord for his own purposes so he attained Vaikuntha but he could not stay in Vaikuntha so in a sense he had not attained Vaikuntha at all because attaining Vaikuntha is not a matter of of just entering into the place, it is a matter of entering into a consciousness just like many of us, we go to Vrindavan Vrindavan on the earth is also a replica of the eternal spiritual world.
Bhaktivinoda Thakur says in the Navdeep Dham Mahatmya that these dhams like Mayapur and Vrindavan, they are covered by yoga maya and if we do not have the right consciousness we may be on the dham but we are not in the dham we are geographically in the same area where the dham is but in consciousness we have not entered the dham so similarly while this point that attaining the spiritual world is primarily a matter of consciousness means that that consciousness can be attained even while we are in this world so the fruit of love of God falling from the spiritual world to the material world means that once love of God is developed in the heart, then the devotee can live in spiritual consciousness even in this world and such a person is called as Jeevan Mukta there are many different kinds of muktis with respect to our current analysis you can say there are two kinds of muktis Vidheha Mukti and Jeevan Mukti Vidheha Mukti means when one Vidheha, without the body when one gives up the body and goes to the spiritual world that is Vidheha the body is given up and that happens for a pure devotee at the time of death but before that there is Jeevan Mukti Jeevan Mukti is if somebody in this world itself one understands that I am the servant of Lord Hari and that with the body, with the mind and with the words one is situated without any possessive mentality in the service of the Lord such a person is Jeevan Mukta they are alive but they are liberated so what binds the soul to the body is the desire to enjoy and what frees the soul from the body is the desire to serve so if we have love for Krishna and we are filled with the desire to serve Krishna then we are liberated so sometimes Prabhupada would ask Prabhupada once asked how many pure devotees are there in the school Prabhupada asked the devotee how many devotees are there in the school at that time there are 700 pure devotees in the school so the devotees were thinking we are not pure, we have so many worldly desires so how can we be pure so Prabhupada explained that there are also potential pure devotees that means we are not yet purified but we are in the process of purification so what is the significance of this point that we can experience love of God in this world itself the fruit of love of God falls from the spiritual world, in this world and allows us to relish love of God that means that we don’t have to wait for anything to love Krishna whatever situation we are in we can try to direct our love towards Krishna right now sometimes we feel my health is not good enough my financial situation is not good enough this relationship is not working out this is a problem, that is a problem, yes these problems are there these problems can obstruct the flow of our service but they needn’t obstruct the flow of our service attitude the difference between service and service attitude is that service is what we practically do in the world service attitude is what we intend to do so sometimes we may want to have beautiful temple for Krishna but then we just don’t have the resources right now to have the temple so Prabhupada he would say that when he had nothing an old man wandering in the streets of New York he said I can see temples they are filled with devotees only time is separating me from them that means he saw that his desire was so strong and Krishna eventually fulfilled the desire even if he assumed Krishna had not fulfilled the desire, just having that desire showed Prabhupada’s exaltedness of course that means in devotion there is the internal intention to serve and there is the external action of service now both are important the internal intention has to be expressed to external action otherwise that intention is not really serious is not genuine now if a if a child comes back from home, the mother is there mummy I am hungry the mother hugs the child, I love you mummy I am hungry, I love you mummy I am hungry, I love you if you love me, give me some food is it? so actually love has to be expressed through actions so if we have devotion for Krishna naturally we will express it through actions but the point is the resources for expressing it may not always be available for us in the world and sometimes we become so disheartened because the resources are not available that we let go of the intention also but that is not necessary bhakti is first and foremost a matter of consciousness, which Prabhupada called at one moment the international society for Krishna consciousness he did not say Krishna service, Krishna activities these are important we want to do Krishna service, we want to do Krishna activities but they want to stem from Krishna consciousness now yesterday I talked about how on the path of bhakti because of our worldly attachments we may get diverted, so I talked about the bhaktilata, there is the bhaktilata which is the creeper that is growing and while that creeper is growing along with that there are also other weeds that may grow now I discussed about one weed is material attachments I want this, I want that, I want that and when that is not coming we may feel or we get so attached with that that our consciousness our emotional energy just goes towards fulfilling those desires now today I am talking in the same direction but a slightly different point, sometimes we may desire certain things for the service of Krishna because one material attachment means we want something for our own pleasure but in the practise of in the practise of bhakti also especially when you are practising bhakti in this world, we need certain things for Krishna’s service and we may naturally desire them we may naturally strive for them and we may or may not get them the nature of this world is that everybody’s efforts get thwarted in the 14th verse, 9th chapter in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says satatam kirtayanto mam yatantasya duravratah namasyantasya mam bhaktya nitya yukta upasate so 9.13 and 14 describe the characteristics of the pure devotee 9.13 describes the internal characteristics of the pure devotee that they are completely absorbed in Krishna without any distraction mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrti ma shuddha bhajanti ananya manaso jnatva bhutadhimayam ananya manaso so ananya manaso that their mind is not distracted to anything other than Krishna so this is the internal characteristic and the external characteristic is they endeavour to serve Krishna with great determination duravratah when I read this verse for the first time I got the question if their mind is already absorbed in Krishna then why do we need to endeavour for all of us we need to endeavour because our mind gets attracted to this thing senses drag us toward that thing but if they are already internally absorbed in Krishna then why is the endeavour needed why is great determination needed to endeavour because the world even for pure devotees is not a comfortable place especially they want to do something practical for serving Krishna Prabhupada had a pure intention for serving Krishna still even for him there are so many obstacles people sometimes opposed him people discouraged him the governments did not support him his god brothers did not support him so Prabhupada had great determination yatan tasya duravratah so for us the nature of this world is that there will be obstacles whether we are materialists trying to seek material gratification or we are spiritualists trying to serve Krishna everybody will face obstacles so sometimes these obstacles may dishearten us so much that we may lose our spirit of practising bhakti one weed or one weed that may be there oh I just want to enjoy this world that’s why I don’t want to practise bhakti but another subtler kind of distraction can be that you know I need this for practising bhakti and till I get this I can’t practise bhakti now yes if certain things work out our bhakti practise can go much more if we have to work for a job which takes a lot of time and if you could get a less demanding job or if you go to financial security then we may be able to serve Krishna more so that is true there are certain material facilities which can aid in Krishna’s service if our health is not good if our health improves then we can serve Krishna better no doubt about it at the same time our relationship with Krishna does not depend on those material situations so in the material world if we can’t do things at a material level then it is almost as if we have not done them a student may study very diligently for an exam but if before the exam the student falls sick and then can’t give the paper student doesn’t get the degree all the effort in studying that is being done is not seen because the material level the result has not come but in bhakti it is not like that bhakti if you are striving to serve Krishna even if the result doesn’t manifest still Krishna is pleased by our endeavour of course because we are serving Krishna in this world we want the result to manifest in this world also Srila Prabhupada wanted to establish the international society so that many many people would come to Krishna but Srila Prabhupada was not bitter or resentful or disheartened because so many things went wrong in his life he tried to start the back to godhead but nobody was interested he started the league of devotees the very supporters went against him he had to leave the place which was going to be his international headquarters he tried to work with his godbrothers but they had a very parochial vision they did not want him to expand he wrote his Bhagavad Gita commentary but somehow it got mysteriously lost so many things he tried, they didn’t work and Prabhupada definitely wanted the results to be manifested in this world also but he was never disheartened if the results didn’t come because our connection with Krishna is primarily through the intention to serve Krishna and then that intention we express through the action we sometimes think I want to do this action and after this action I get the result then by that result I am connected with Krishna I want to offer that result to Krishna yes we want to offer the results to Krishna but what Krishna wants is not just the results the biggest result Krishna wants is our own heart Krishna wants us to become devoted to him, Krishna wants us to become attracted to him Krishna wants us to come to him that is the first and foremost result that Krishna wants and that result is something which we can try to offer to Krishna right now in the 11th chapter of the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says tasmātmatiṣṭha-yaśodabhasva-jitvāśatraṇbhaṁśvarājyaṁ samṛddhaṁ mayaivaite nihataḥ pūrvameva nimittamātram bhavasau meśāci so Krishna is saying Arjuna arise and attain victory by my arrangement all your enemies have already been killed enjoy a flourishing kingdom in my service just become an instrument for me so here Krishna is saying that the enemies are already killed by my arrangement so sometimes we say we are meant that we should not be attached to the fruits we should offer the fruits to Krishna karmanye vādhikāsti mā phaleshu karanā yat karoṣi dasanāsi ajjuho siddhātāsi yata tapasya si kaunte tat kuruṣo madhārpana 9.27 Krishna says whatever you do you offer it to me so we are not meant to be attached to the fruits we are meant to offer the fruits to Krishna but here Krishna is telling Arjuna the fruits are already with me the enemies are already defeated Arjuna is fighting so that the enemies could be defeated and Krishna is telling the enemies are already defeated by my arrangement so then Krishna is implying over here that the fruits are already with him so what does he want Arjuna to offer? why is he telling Arjuna to fight? he is telling Arjuna to fight because he wants Arjuna to offer his endeavour he wants Arjuna to offer his consciousness and in this way the principle is that we want to be attached to Krishna and we don’t want to become attached to the things even if those things are needed for the service to Krishna yes those things are important and as long as we have them we keep them very carefully if we go for book distribution and if we have a car which we use or a van for going for distribution it’s important that we maintain the car very carefully so that we can go for distribution nicely but if that car gets damaged that doesn’t mean that we can no longer serve Krishna maybe we will not be able to serve through book distribution by going to that same place but we can do some other service to Krishna if we become attached to the things that help us to serve Krishna is that favourable or it is unfavourable? is that a favourable attachment or is that unfavourable attachment? actually it depends it can be favourable if it inspires us to take care of that thing properly but it can become unfavourable if it consumes our consciousness so much that it diverts us from Krishna that even while chanting one thing how is the van? is it in good condition or not? how is this? this? this? so if we are seeking financial security that’s important but if we are serving Krishna by hearing at that time let’s just focus on hearing at that time we start worrying about money yes we need money for serving Krishna but what we need most for serving Krishna is our heart’s desire to serve Krishna and the time when we are directly practising bhakti that is the time when we can nourish and strengthen that desire we express that desire by hearing about Krishna by speaking about Krishna, by chanting about Krishna and by doing this expression of our desire the desire becomes stronger so Krishna says that even if you don’t have natural attraction towards me so just try to fix your mind on me by steadily trying to fix your mind on me your desire for me will grow so I will visually demonstrate what I am trying to say over here say I am here, Krishna is here and this is a service by which I can go towards Krishna this is say my service, I am book distributor I am a speaker, I am a pujari, I am a fundraiser that is my service by which my consciousness moves towards Krishna now the flow of our consciousness towards Krishna doesn’t have to be tied down or restricted only to one channel that may be a major channel through which our consciousness moves towards Krishna but that is not the only channel so we are hearing about Krishna that is also another channel by which our consciousness moves towards Krishna we are speaking about Krishna that is also another channel through which our consciousness moves towards Krishna when we are speaking about Krishna if many people come, hear, learn, become devotees that is wonderful then we connect with them and we guide them towards Krishna then that also becomes another channel through which our consciousness moves towards Krishna every person that we connect with in the mode of service to Krishna then as their consciousness moves towards Krishna in guiding them our consciousness also moves towards Krishna but I am here and this service is here and Krishna is here that service is one channel by which my consciousness moves towards Krishna sometimes we think that when the service results come then I am successful but even if nobody is there attending a class that we are giving still our consciousness is moving towards Krishna Bhakti Sahasra Thakur would tell his disciple that nobody comes for your programmes, speak to the walls of course, Prabhupada did not stay in India speaking to the walls he came to America looking for sincere people so certainly you want to endeavour to get the results in this world also that is a part of our service to Krishna but the point I am making is sometimes we become too attached to getting a particular result even for Krishna and if that happens, not getting that result agitates our mind so much disheartens us so much that our consciousness no longer flows towards Krishna we go for book distribution and somehow nobody takes any books and then we feel so disheartened next day we feel I don’t feel like chanting I don’t feel like waking up I don’t feel like hearing class no, that is one channel through which my consciousness moves towards Krishna hearing and chanting is another channel through which my consciousness moves towards Krishna so the way I relate with devotees that is another channel through which my consciousness moves towards Krishna So if we become too attached to any one particular service and attached to getting results in that service, then we reduce the channels for the flow of our consciousness towards Krishna to only that one channel. And when that channel gets blocked somehow, then our bhakti itself gets blocked. But if we understand that Krishna is bigger than even the biggest service that I can offer to him.
Krishna is bigger than the biggest result that I can offer to him. Therefore, my connection with Krishna doesn’t have to be reduced to this. By that, the result happens that we can start connecting with Krishna at a deeper level.
We see the greatness of Krishna and we see the multifarious ways in which we can connect with Krishna. I recently met a devotee who had some accident because of which he lost his voice. Initially when he lost his voice, he said he was disheartened.
And he said, I’ve taken a vow of initiation. Chanting says, how can’t chant? Then he talked with a spiritual master and a spiritual master, another guide was talking with me also. We all encouraged him to chant in the mind.
It’s very difficult to concentrate in the mind. Just if we chant without speaking verbally. But he tried that.
He tried that. And now he’s saying that actually because I don’t have the physical voice to chant, now when I chant in the mind, I’m forced to concentrate. Because that’s the only level I’m chanting at.
So he’s telling now chanting in the mind is now actually I’m chanting more attentively than I was chanting before. Now, of course, that doesn’t mean for all of us chanting in the mind will be more attentive. I’m just saying that normally for us, we chant, we involve the mind, we involve the tongue, we involve the ears.
All these are channels by which our consciousness moves towards Krishna. But sometimes a particular channel, say this channel is speaking may get blocked. But that doesn’t mean the flow of our consciousness towards Krishna has to be blocked.
So if we become disheartened in our devotion, that is not so much because devotion is not working or Krishna is not reciprocating. It is often because we have reduced the flow of our consciousness towards Krishna to one channel alone. In tomorrow’s class, I will talk about attachment to renunciation.
How trying to give up certain things and becoming obsessed with giving up certain things can also block the flow of our consciousness towards Krishna. But I’ll summarise now and we can have some questions. Today I spoke on the theme of how we need to ensure that our consciousness keeps moving towards Krishna and how the fruit of the Bhakti Lata creeper as it grows, it reaches the spiritual world and the fruit matures and the fruit falls down to this world.
That means that love of God can be tasted in this world also. So we talked about how the spiritual world is not just a different location. It is first and foremost a different consciousness.
And going there requires not just physical relocation but emotional redirection. And if the emotions are redirected, then even a person in this world can actually be in the spiritual world, can be in spiritual consciousness. So that is the concept of Jeevan Mukta.
What binds the soul to the body is not just the soul being in the body. It is the soul being in the body and wanting to enjoy the body. But the soul in the body has the desire to serve Krishna and that is the driving, defining desire.
And even in this body, the soul is liberated. That is Videha Mukti is eventually when the body’s lifespan gets over, soul gets liberated and goes to the spiritual world. So this principle, the spiritual world and love for Krishna is accessible even now in the material world.
How do we apply it in our life today? The material world is a place of limitation. And that’s why the facilities that we need for serving Krishna, there may be health, there may be financial security, there may be stable relationships, there may be a good environment. Sometimes they may just not be available.
So we try to get them so that we can increase our service to Krishna. But if sometimes somehow we are not able to get them, that doesn’t mean that our consciousness can’t move towards Krishna. So our intention to serve Krishna is the primary connection with Krishna.
And we may want to offer the fruits of our service to Krishna, but Krishna already has all the fruits. If he wants, he can manifest them in one moment. But he wants us to endeavour so that we can offer him our heart.
Krishna wants us to offer the fruits, but the fruit that he wants the most is our own heart. And sometimes we may become so attached to a particular result or a particular thing in our service that that consumes our consciousness, that captivates our emotions and doesn’t allow us to go towards Krishna. So attachment to something which is anti-devotional, which is sensual, we can clearly see that this is a weed that I need to cut off.
But attachment to something which is pro-devotional, which can help in our devotional service, that can be favourable if that inspires us to take care of that thing and be responsible so that we can serve Krishna better. But if that consumes our consciousness so much that our consciousness is no longer available for going towards Krishna, then that is unfavourable. So we see every service that we have as a distinct channel for taking our consciousness towards Krishna.
And sometimes by the very nature of this world, even for pure devotees, what to speak for us, some channels may just get blocked. If a particular channel is blocked, that doesn’t mean our devotion has to be blocked. We can still find what can I do in this situation and move onwards towards Krishna.
If we work in this way, then we will never be disheartened because we always have some channel of consciousness moving towards Krishna. And one channel that can block our flow of consciousness is attachment. Similarly, attachment to renunciation, thinking that I have to give this up so that I can go towards Krishna.
That can also be a problem in the flow of our devotion towards Krishna. So thank you very much. Are there any questions or comments? So I think the two different questions are related, but I’ll answer them separately.
First question is that if while doing a particular service, our mind is wandering elsewhere and we are physically doing, but our mind is not involved because we are attached to something else. That is a practical situation which all of us face. And that is why Srila Prabhupada translated bhakti as, that is one reason why, he translated as devotional service.
That means, service is what is, devotional service is a compound phrase in which devotional is the adjective, service is the noun. So we want to do service in a devotional mode. But even if we can’t do the service in the devotional mode, at least do the service.
In 5.11 in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says, kāyena manasa buddhya kevalair indriyair api yoginah karma kurvanti sangam tyaktvātma śuddhaye He says, kāyena manasa buddhya, that with the body, with the mind, with the intelligence and even with the senses. Yoginah karma kurvanti, the yogis work for ātma śuddhaye, for the purpose of purifying themselves. So this means that, the ācāryas explained this verse in two ways, that bhakti is so inclusive that even our senses can be used in Krishna’s service.
Normally the eyes take us into illusion when we get captivated by the attractive objects of the world. But bhakti is so wonderful that even the eyes can be engaged to purify and liberate us. We behold the beautiful form of Krishna and that liberates us.
So that this kāyena, sorry, indriyair api, that can refer to the inclusiveness of bhakti. But the other point is, other explanation of this verse is that, that even with the senses, that means even if the mind and intelligence are not so involved, even they get distracted, at least the level of the senses do service. Get the body and the senses involved in service.
So it’s good if we can chant with our full consciousness, but if you can’t, at least chant. So what happens, that even if we consider our consciousness, that our consciousness, soul is here, the mind is here, the body is here. Because our consciousness goes through the mind to the body to the outer world.
But sometimes the mind and the body become two parallel tracks. The mind is going somewhere, the body is going somewhere else. So now in that case, where is our consciousness? We could say our consciousness is primarily at the level of the mind.
Say we are driving a car, but we are lost in thought. There is still some consciousness which is there, by which it’s almost like on autopilot we are driving. Okay, turn here, turn here, stop here, go move forward, pick up the speed.
But our consciousness is caught elsewhere. But still, even at that time, we could say, if you consider, our consciousness has a conscious component and a subconscious component. So right now you are conscious of what I am speaking, I am conscious of what you are speaking.
But at the same time, at the background of our consciousness, we are aware. Okay, I am sitting in the temple, I may be aware that I am in London right now. So our consciousness has multiple levels, we can say.
Now if we physically are doing something, even if we are distracted, at least some level of consciousness is there in it. And at some level of consciousness being connected with Krishna also helps our consciousness to flow towards Krishna. Even if it is not fully going.
That’s why even if we are inattentive, still we should keep doing the service. Because at least some consciousness is staying connected with Krishna and we are moving forwards. That’s why even mechanical chanting also purifies.
But of course it is a very slow purification. If it is not just mechanical but it is also intentional, that means we are putting the power of our intention into it, then it’s transformational much faster. Having said that, we can try to find out ways in which we can bring our mind to that service.
So if something is a cause of great worry or great fear or great emotional agitation for us, then we need to give time to process it. There is something called, we say, if some people want to talk, then we need to spend some quality time. So similarly, sometimes we may need to spend some quality time with our mind.
What do I mean by that? Quality time with our mind means that the mind is always nagging us. I do this, don’t do this, this is going wrong, that is going wrong. So if it just keeps talking, talking, talking in the background, it distracts us, it drains us.
But suppose we are in the mode of goodness, we have done some spiritual activities, we are in a calm reflective mode, then we just turn, okay, what are your concerns right now? Speak. You have the next 10 minutes. I said all this may go wrong, this is going wrong, this person is doing like this.
Then we calmly said, okay, this person did like this, but what is the worst case scenario? What can happen? If this happens, I can do this. Anything else? No. Okay, that’s pacified.
So what happens is, sometimes we need to neglect the mind, but sometimes we may have to process what the mind is saying. And sometimes this is the casual noise that is there, we are going by a road and we see some shop with something, let’s buy that, it’s a casual desire. And if we just go by that, we forget it, even the desire is forgotten.
But sometimes some things keep coming again and again and again. Then it’s very difficult to neglect them. Then we need to process them.
Okay, you know, this particular thing, my job is not working out, this is not working out, it’s a big problem for me. Okay, if we say, just shut up, the mind may not shut up at that time. It may shut up for time, somebody will again keep coming back.
But then if we sit down and process it, okay, what is the exact problem? This is the problem. This can happen, this can happen, this is not right, this is not okay, this is not right. How can I manage with this? So basically what we do is, instead of just letting the mind speak and we either passively hear or we resentfully tolerate it, rather we get our intelligence to speak.
Mind, you speak what you want to speak, then we get our intelligence to speak. This can be dealt with this way, this can be dealt with this way, this can be dealt with this way. We can even use writing for this.
We can use journaling. Just let the mind have its say. Sit down and write everything that is there in the mind.
And then after we have written down, mind feels a little release. Then maybe a day later, look at what is written. And then process it with the intelligence.
So if we do this, then the mind is constantly, this is not right, this is wrong, this is wrong. I gave you the time, we discussed this, we have made a plan for doing this, this, now let’s focus on this. Even if we are not able to focus, at least having given that time and processed, gives us the conviction to get the mind back.
Sometimes what happens, we are doing one thing, but something in the mind, this can go wrong. Ya, ya, it can go wrong, it can be a serious problem. No, no, let’s focus now.
Now what happens is, we ourselves get too distracted by the mind. Although we try to focus, but if we address the issue, mind says, what if this happens, what if that happens. Okay, this happens, I plan, A, B, C, D. These are things which I can do.
All this person is like this. Okay, what can I do about it? I can try this, I can try this, I can try this. If nothing works, then I’ll accept it and I’ll live on that.
So I have made a plan. So what happens then, the mind’s distraction goes down. So if the distraction is casual and circumstantial, then just neglect it.
But if the distraction is repeated and insistent, then sometimes addressing it is the best way to calm the mind down. And the second question is, if we don’t have someone to confide to, then as I said, we have to use our own intelligence and we have to confide to Krishna. And the same process of journaling can help us to actually process our thoughts better, write them down, and then maybe keep it written down and decide that I have this decision to make.
I have three months to make the decision. So every week I’ll spend about one hour on this. Then the mind is constantly nagging, this is happening, this is happening, this is happening, this is happening.
During the course of the day or in the course of the week a new thought comes, just note it down. But don’t spend time thinking on it. Because serious thinking requires the mode of goodness.
If we try to think of serious issues when we are out in the heat of the world trying to do things, in the mode of passion, then it simply distracts us. And if we try to think of serious issues when we are in the mode of ignorance, it simply overwhelms us. How can I solve this problem? So serious thinking needs to be done in the mode of goodness.
And sometimes in the course of our activities also some thought might come in. It might be an important thought that was a solution or another aspect of the issue that needs to be addressed. Just note it down at that time.
Note it down on your phone, note it down by just speaking or recording or whatever. And then have a quality time. This is the time when I’m going to think about this issue.
So when you write it down and then address the intelligence, at that time it’s like we have got a snapshot of our mind. This is how of our inner world. These are my concerns and these are my strategies for addressing these concerns.
And every week pre-process them once, twice. We may do it for one week, second week, third week. And if we keep doing it for say 2-3 months and then see the thought that we had right in the beginning, now we still have the same more or less inclination.
The way we felt we should go ahead, that is the same thing we are feeling now. And what will happen? This is not just some feeling arising out of frustration. This is something which I strongly feel.
I consistently feel this way. So therefore let me go ahead with this. So by this way, even if we are not able to solve the issue, at least we will have a well thought plan about how to deal with the issue.
So that way we can get the mind. If we can’t confide with others, then we can try to consult our higher side, consult our intelligence. The Bhagavatam says in the 11th canto that we have to become our own gurus.
That doesn’t mean we reject our spiritual master. But rather that by hearing from the spiritual master, by internalising the principles that they have taught us, thereafter we need to be able to learn to take decisions ourselves, especially about issues that we are not able to consult others, or especially because of situations where we are not able to have the guidance of others. So Prabhupada also says if we come to the mode of goodness, in the nectar of instruction, in the introduction he says, if we come to the mode of goodness, then how to advance further will be revealed from within.
This is just one way in which we can mould our thinking process. So we come to the mode of goodness so that we can get that guidance from within. Okay, thank you.
Yes, please. Is planet earth, for which we live now, flat or round? Is the earth flat or round? I would say that there are different ways of looking at things. And the modern cosmology looks at the universe in a particular way.
And in that model of the universe, the earth is round. The Bhagavatam talks about another model of the universe. And when I say model, basically models may be of same reality, but they may be very, very different.
If you consider Ayurveda or you consider allopathy. Allopathy considers that the body has some chemicals and the chemical imbalance causes diseases. Ayurveda says that there is a digestive fire.
And most diseases arise because the digestive fire is weak. Allopathy says that there is no fire, something like fire in the body. Metabolism has a sense, but there is no fire in the body.
There are two different models. So the Bhagavatam’s model is very different from the contemporary model. And there are two different ways of looking at the universe.
And both have their utility. Even in our own tradition, the Bhagavatam’s cosmology was never used for any practical purposes. That means if astrologers want to do astrological calculations, they have a whole different genre of literature called Jyotisha Shastra.
And the Jyotisha cosmology is very different from the Bhagavatam’s cosmology. So for functional purposes, the astrologers use Jyotisha cosmology, not Puranic cosmology. And even our own Acharyas who have even commented on the Bhagavatam, like Vishwanath Chakravarty or others, if they are calculating the horoscope of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu or the horoscope of Krishna, even they do not use the Bhagavatam’s cosmology.
So the Bhagavatam’s cosmology is primarily for meditational purposes. That it is a very different way of looking at the world. And the primary purpose is to help Parishad Maharaj fix a bind on Krishna.
Now in that cosmological model, there is the earth and there is the Bhuv Mandal. So the earth planet, it is considered to be round. Bhuv Gol.
So it is considered to be round. But the Bhuv Mandal, round, round. The Bhuv Gol, that is the traditional word used for the earth.
Gol means round. So I would say that that model is given not just in the Bhagavatam, it is given in the other Puranas also. And actually the Bhagavatam does not give much description exhaustively.
The Bhagavatam’s purpose is not to describe cosmology. If you consider the, I was a part of the cosmology team with some of the Vaishnavas and we studied it quite a bit. If you consider from Chapter 16 to Chapter 25 in the 5th Canto, where there is description of the cosmology, even in those chapters which are devoted to cosmology, only about 10% of the verses actually use cosmological dimensions.
The other verses are about, okay, in this planet, these residents are living and they are worshipping the Lord in this form and these are the prayers that they offer to the Lord in this form. So the Bhagavatam’s purpose is not to give us cosmological measurements. It is to give us an understanding of how dharma and devotion pervade the whole universe.
And therefore, the inspiration is that everybody everywhere is worshipping the Lord, therefore, Shubhdev Goswami, Upanishad Maharaj, therefore you should also worship the Lord. So it is to appreciate the glory and the grandeur of God and the universe that has come from Him. That whole meditation is given.
So it’s like, suppose, say, in future some nuclear holocaust happens and all the books in the world are destroyed. And say we have only Prabhupada Nilamruta left. And we have no map of America.
Now if by reading Prabhupada Nilamruta we want to reconstruct the map of America. Well, Prabhupada Nilamruta describes, okay, Prabhupada went from Florida, he went to New York, he went to Chicago, he went here. But Prabhupada Nilamruta is not a geographical book.
It is a biographical book. Similarly, the Bhagavatam gives geographical knowledge, cosmological knowledge, but it is not a cosmological book. It is not a geographical book.
So therefore, taking something from the Bhagavatam and bringing it into a confrontational attitude, into a confrontation with modern science, we may miss out on the purpose of the Bhagavatam itself. So in the broad Bhagavatam cosmology, the earth itself is considered to be round, Bhugola. But there is also something called earthly planetary system, which is called the Bhumandala.
And the Bhumandala is flat. So we could say that both are accommodated in the Bhagavatam’s model. And there is the round earth, which is where we are living.
And this round earth belongs to a much bigger stratum of existence, which is called as the Bhumandala, which is a disc. And that is flat. But that disc is made of subtle matter.
It is not made of gross matter. That’s why it’s not perceivable to us. Okay? Yeah.
Thank you. Yes, Ram? So I said that mechanical devotional service also leads to gradual purification. But inattentive chanting is also an offence.
Okay? There are two different points going on over here. There is attention and there is intention. The two are not the same.
So for us, sometimes attention may just not be possible. Just the mind is so forceful. In Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita, even for yogis who have renounced the world and gone to the forest, he tells them, that wherever and whenever the mind wanders, bring it back under the control of the self.
So it’s significant Krishna is not telling them your mind should not wander. Krishna is saying your mind may wander, bring it back. So even for people who are living away from all the temptations of this world, all the agitations of this world, even for them Krishna acknowledges the fact that the mind will wander.
Krishna says it will wander. As soon as you become aware it’s wandering, bring it back. So I would say the word inattentive chanting, when we say it is an offence to the holy name, what it means is that one has no attention, one has no intention, and one neither has any inclination for intention or attention.
One is just doing it completely as a ritual. So that kind of chanting is a problem. Where, so for example, one is just uttering the sound of the holy name, but one is making all schemes for worldly enjoyment.
Where one is doing Bhakti not Takur’s times, you know people in Bengal, they would go to the market, in one hand they would have that bead bag, in another hand they would have a bag which was carrying fish. And they would buy, okay this fish how much cost, this fish how much cost. Even the people who would sell fish, they would be chanting the holy names and they would be selling fish.
So thoughts are all, okay how much is the cost of this fish, how much I will get for this fish. So actually there is no investment of consciousness in Krishna at all. So that’s when it becomes a problem.
It’s if inattentive chanting itself, where if we take that word without any qualification, inattentive chanting is a problem, all of us when we chant, we are going to be inattentive. That’s the nature of the uncontrolled mind. Then the result would be that if we chant we commit offences, so therefore it’s better not to chant, we will not commit any offences.
No, that is not the way. The way is that we chant and strive for attention as much as possible. So rather than thinking of attention in terms of digital logic, zero or one, we see attention in terms of analogue logic.
It’s a continuum. So there is zero attention and there is 100% attention. And from that sometimes our attention may be 5%, sometimes 95%.
Most of the time it may be 50, 60, 30, 47%, something like that. So it keeps varying. So we want to move along this continuum towards more and more attentive chanting.
So what inattentive chanting in that context is offensive, it means that there is almost like zero attention and there is no attempt also to get it towards a higher level. It’s just going on mechanically and one is doing whatever they want to do. Then it’s a problem.
Thank you. So we’ll stop. Thank you very much.