What is Spirituality – Questions and Answers

[QA session at Brisbane, Australia]

Video:

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
I will talk, maybe for five to ten minutes about spirituality in general. And then if you have any questions, we will let the question answers lead the discussion.
All of us, in our lives, sometime or other, get demoralized. We just don’t feel like doing anything. Now, usually, when this happens, at that time, often something has gone wrong.
And then, we have to, how we see that thing that has gone wrong, that determines our response. So, I was in, last year I was in America. I was at a conference on mental health and spirituality.
And many people suffer from depression. So, many of these people who are struggling with depression, they are also sharing how they go into depression and what helps them to come off depression. And then we were talking about spiritual principles that could be applied.
So, there was one girl, and young woman. She was studying in a good university in America. And, she also was waiting to get some money one day.
She used to wait on tables. And, one day she was carrying a glass of water. And suddenly, the glass of water, she was going to serve a customer, the glass slipped from her hands and fell down.
And just because of that, she started thinking, I am so useless. I can’t carry even a glass of water. What am I going to achieve in my life? What kind of career can I have? What kind of relationships can I have? What kind of future can I have? So, just the glass slipping from her hands triggered a massive depression in her.
And she eventually had to be hospitalized and treated. So now, for how many of us, the glass has slipped from our hands? You know, almost every one of us. Now, how many of us went into depression because of that? You may say it’s very silly.
But this brings to attention a very, to light an important point about how the mind works. See, every single thing, we can put in different frames. Just like right now, if somebody was looking at this house, or if somebody is clicking a photo.
Now, if they want to know who is the speaker, they might put the frame only on the speaker. If they want to know how many people have come for the program, they might put the frame a little bigger. If they want to know how big is the space for the program, they might put the frame a little bigger.
If they want to know what locality is this in, they might go outside and by helicopter click the photo and see what is the locality, what kind of buildings are nearby. So the same thing, can be put in different frames. And intelligence means to put every issue in the most constructive frame.
So that means, say if a glass slipped from the hand, now it could be that the same incident, it could be explained in different ways. It could be, okay, the glass was slippery. Maybe I was distracted.
Or maybe the floor was slippery and because of that the glass slipped from my hand. Or maybe suddenly somebody spoke loudly and that distracted me. Now, all these could be possible explanations.
So one is, the nature of the glass. The second is, my own unattentiveness. The third is, the slipperiness of the floor.
The fourth is, the noisiness of the other people over there. So the same incident can be put in different frames. And when we put at a normal functional level, we actually do this analysis.
And we put things in the right frame. But sometimes, when we face problems, if we put the problem in the wrong frame, say, to think that the glass has slipped from my hand and because of that, life is useless. Or my life is useless.
That’s putting that issue in the wrong frame. Wrong in the sense that it is unproductive. It is counterproductive.
So, spiritual knowledge is what we need when the normal frames in which we put issues don’t work. So when, all of us normally have a plan for our life. I want to do this, I want to do this, I want to do this.
But sometimes, during the course of our lives, we come to a sudden dead end. Life seems to be going straight. And suddenly on that straight, clear road, a sudden blockage comes.
I just can’t move ahead. At all. Such was the situation of Arjuna.
Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita was a warrior who was about to fight the biggest war of his life. This was a war for which he had prepared throughout his life. And suddenly, just before the war, he looked and he saw, he said, all my relatives, they are some of my worshipable elders.
These are my friends with whom I grew up playing. How can I fight against them? And thinking this, he said, I can’t fight. And then he said, what can I do now? He had a responsibility to fight.
He said, I can’t fight. So initially his frame was that these are vicious people, they are adharmic and they need to be punished. That was one frame he had.
Initially, basically, they had offended his, they had insulted his wife, they had stolen their kingdom and they were vicious. That was one frame. But suddenly the frame changed and he saw they are all my relatives.
How can I fight with them? So one frame put him, I should fight. Another frame, I cannot fight. So when we have these two frames, same issue can be framed in one way and impels us to one course of action.
The same issue is framed in another way, it impels us to another course of action. That’s when we get confusion. And if confusion is not resolved, then we go into dejection, which can go further down into clinical depression and more serious things.
So spiritual knowledge of the Bhagavad Gita helped Arjun to expand his frame. So Arjun at the start of the Gita was so disheartened and he has put aside his bow saying, I can’t fight. Misrujya Sasaram Jaapam Shokasam Vigna Manasaham Put aside his bow, Shokasam Vigna completely filled with lamentation.
But by the end of the Bhagavad Gita, Yatra Yogeshwara Krishna Yatra Partha Danurdhara Tatra Shri Vijayo Bhutir Dhruvani Thirma Thirmama Arjun has picked up his bow. Danurdhara has become ready to do his duty. Ready to answer the call of duty.
And with him being thus ready, the Bhagavad concludes the prophecy that victory will be his. Morality will be on his side. Prosperity will be on his side.
So what happened? Let’s say Arjuna at the start of the Gita was disheartened, putting his bow aside. At the end of the Gita, had raised his bow in readiness to fight. The Gita expanded his frame.
Expanded his frame means the Gita helped him understand that his purpose was not just to fight a war to gain back a kingdom nor was it to not fight a war to protect his protect his relatives. His purpose was that he was a spiritual being. And beyond whatever plans we have in our life, there is a higher plan at work.
There is a higher plan which is for our good and for everyone’s good. And we have to do our part in that plan. So the Bhagavad Gita shifted Arjuna’s vision from matter to spirit.
You are not just the body, you are a soul. And not just to the soul, but in the spirit there is a supreme spirit. That is God.
That is Krishna. The Bhagavad Gita shifted his vision and when the vision shifted the situation remained the same but the frame in which that situation was seen was different. And he saw that the supreme cared for him and cared for everyone.
And if he just did what was the right thing at that time, acted in the mood of loving service to Krishna, good will come to everyone. And as he said, I will do your will. So of course the philosophy of the Gita is complex but basically by getting a vision that his plan, his purpose was thwarted.
This way was no use, this way was no use. But when his vision, his frame expanded and he could see that yes, there is, although there seems to be a dead end here, there is a way ahead. Similarly for us, when we feel disheartened, spiritual knowledge can help us to adjust the frame so that rather than seeing only the negativity of the situation, we put that situation in a more constructive frame where we can see a positive way ahead.
Our plans can sometimes, many times get frustrated. But still, beyond our plans, there is a higher plan. Sometimes bad things happen in life.
However, everything that happens is not good. But everything that happens can be for good. Bad things happen and we just focus on the bad thing and we get disheartened.
But by a higher plan, even if a bad thing has happened, good can come out of it. And we can also introspect in our lives. We will see that many of the things that we, when they happened in our past in our life, we thought these were very bad.
Now 5 years, 10 years down the line, we see that actually good things have come out of it. So by putting things in a bigger frame, spiritual knowledge helps us to respond constructively to life’s adversities. To everything that happens, may appear, something that happened may appear to be very bad.
But by putting them in a proper spiritual frame, seeing that there is a higher reality, there is a higher plan operation, we can become more positive. These are just a few starting thoughts. So, any thoughts, any comments, any questions? Okay.
So, what is spirituality? Spirituality, you could say there are essentially three parts to it. First is that spirituality at one level means that there is a spiritual reality. Spirituality is spiritual plus reality.
That we live in physical reality. We look for material things. So beyond what is visible, beyond what is physically tangible, there is something higher to life.
And it is this higher reality which makes us long for love, long for happiness. Not just love and happiness but lasting love and lasting happiness. All of us, if we see, there are so many, we all long not just to love but to love forever.
Movies, the novels, many of them are about romance and they say, I want to live forever, love forever. So, why forever? Nothing around us lasts forever. But still, we have a strong desire for this forever.
If we are simply material creatures, then our desires would come from matter. And in matter there is no experience of anything which lasts forever. So why do we get this desire? If a child is living in a remote African tribal forest and there the child suddenly says, Mom, I want a pizza.
When did you hear about a pizza? There is nothing in the child’s vicinity to ever get that, create that desire within. So just the fact that we have a desire for something which is not present at all in the world around us that indicates that there is something about us which does not belong to the world around us. Everything around us is material but we have a desire to live forever.
So spirituality, the first level means there is a spiritual reality. At another level, the way, today the word spirituality is used. It basically used to refer to anything that makes us feel good.
That’s the idea. Or it’s a very spiritual place. What does that mean? When people use that, they say that okay, when I go there I feel good, I feel peaceful, I feel uplifted.
Maybe there are some vibrations over there. So today the word spirituality is used not so much in a metaphysical sense of their existing higher reality but in the sense that anything that makes me feel good. That’s what we call as spiritual.
So spirituality refers to spiritual reality. Spirituality can also refer to the emotions that we experience. The sense of peace or harmony that we experience.
Beyond that, at third level, spirituality can refer to the process by which we experience that higher emotion and we experience the higher reality. So there are, if we conceive of a mountain, the bottom of the mountain is material consciousness. The top of the mountain is spiritual consciousness.
And spirituality is the process by which we rise from the bottom of the mountain to the top of the mountain. So, meditation, kirtan, prayer, worship, study of wisdom texts. These are all ways in which you can rise up.
So, the processes for raising our consciousness can also be called as spirituality. So it can refer to spiritual reality, it can refer to our emotions of peace and serenity and can refer to the processes that take us towards the spiritual level of consciousness. Now, what exists at the top of the mountain? Now, great wisdom texts such as Bhagavad Gita have told us that.
And we can get some glimpse of that. So, at spiritual consciousness, we realize, going back to the first point, that we have a longing for love, which lasts forever. So, the Bhagavad Gita essentially says that spiritual reality has three components.
There is the soul, who is spiritual and eternal, who we are. And there is the whole. There is the divine, known by different names and different traditions.
Known in Bhagavad Gita by the name Krishna. And that is the supreme spiritual reality. And then there is spiritual love between the two of them.
So, in that spiritual reality, at the top of the mountain, what goes on is, longing for eternal love is fulfilled over there. In the exchange of love between the finite soul, like all of us, and the infinite soul, is God. So, realizing and participating in that eternal exchange of love, that is considered to be the perfection of spirituality.
Any other questions? Yeah. How do we achieve liberation? Okay. How can we achieve liberation? First of all, if we are to achieve liberation, we need to understand two things.
What are we bound now and how are we bound now? And what do we mean by liberation? It’s like, if, say, if I want to go to, if I want to go to a particular place. I just now came from Melbourne. So, if I want to go to Melbourne, first I need to know, okay, where am I and where is Melbourne? And then I can find a path from here to there.
So, if you want to, how do we achieve liberation? You know, understand what is the bound state, what is the liberated state, then we can talk about the process to go there. So, we are considered bound in the present stage because we all long for lasting life and lasting love. But that is never fulfilled for us.
At a ultimate level, all our dreams for lasting life and lasting love are going to be shattered by death. And even before that, we are bound in various ways, various limitations. So, one limitation is time.
Our existence is just for a finite time. And we cannot extend that. When it ends, death when it comes, it will be unappealable, just final.
So, that’s one. The duration is one limitation. Then within that, our own ability is one limitation.
If we want to fly, we cannot fly on our own. We need airplanes. There are so many things which we can’t do.
So many things, again, which we feel will give us enjoyment, by which we can gain happiness, we can’t do those things. So, we basically exist in a limited state. And this limited state is a state of bondage.
And this limited state exists, the Bhagavad Gita explains, because we are spiritual beings, but we are attached to material things. So, suppose somebody is an alcoholic. Now, that alcoholic may go from Australia to America.
And he says, I am free, I can go wherever I want. But, once the urge to drink hits them, whether they are in Australia or America or Africa, will be pulled to a bar. I have to go and drink.
So, where is this bonding? Physically, there are no ropes. But in the mind, there are ropes that drag them. Invisible ropes.
So, just now, addicts are an extreme example of bondage. But, similarly, all of us are bound by our desires. Asha, Pasha, Chatair, in the Bhagavad Gita 16th chapter, Krishna Siddhanta’s 12th verse, that the desire to enjoy temporary things binds us to the temporary world.
So, bondage means the desire to enjoy wealth, power, pleasure, position, possessions. All this, all these desires, they bind us to the world. So, that is the bound state.
The liberated state is the state where we are not bound by any worldly desires. We don’t have any worldly desires. Rather, we exist in a state free from all desires for temporary things.
So, we have, we exist with love for that eternal spiritual reality. So, liberation means, when we learn to become absorbed in the eternal, to become in love with the eternal, then that is the state of liberation. So, now, if you consider this point, that when our desires are directed towards temporary worldly things, that’s what causes bondage.
When the desire is directed towards eternal spiritual reality, and the highest spiritual reality is God. He’s known by different names. Again, Krishna, we can say, as the Bhagavad Gita says.
So, when the desires are directed towards Krishna, then we go to that spiritual level of reality where there is no limitation of death, where there is no limitation in doing the activities that give us happiness. So, then the process for liberation will be the process that redirects our desires from temporary material things to the eternal spiritual being. There are different processes for becoming liberated.
There are different processes for liberation, just as say, we could say, the bottom of the mountain, top of the mountain. You could have different paths to go up the mountain. Now, all paths may go up the mountain, or many paths may go up the mountain, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that all the paths are equally easy.
So, there are some processes of liberation which focus primarily on detachment, that attachment to temporary material things causes bondage. So, become detached, become detached, and the more we become detached, the more we will become liberated. And yes, detachment is required.
But this is a very difficult and negative centered process. It’s focused on what we are meant to give up. The other process could be that we cultivate attraction towards the spiritual.
So, it is a desire to enjoy temporary material things that binds us. But instead, if we cultivate a desire for spiritual reality, and as the desire goes stronger, we will move towards liberation. So, that desire grows by the process of bhakti yoga.
Bhakti yoga essentially is a process. abhyasa yogena tato mam icchaptum dhananjaya In 12.9 in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says that if we practice abhyasa yoga, abhyasa yoga means we practice the process of bhakti. Say, we chant the names of Krishna, we do bhajan of Krishna, we do puja of Krishna.
Abhyasa yoga, we try to fix the mind on Krishna. By this, mam icchaptum dhananjaya. Our desire for Krishna will become stronger and stronger.
And as the desire for Krishna enters into our consciousness and fills our consciousness, then we will see everything is connected with Krishna. Then, we will see temporary, we will see the temporary material things, but we won’t see them separate from Krishna. So, instead of thinking of our family members as my family members and getting attached to them and getting bound, we will see that these are also souls who are parts of Krishna.
By Krishna’s arrangement, now I am put in a particular family, I am in a particular family and by taking care of my family members in a mood of service to Krishna, not just seeing them as the ultimate end, but seeing them in connection with Krishna. Then, even by acting in the world, we can move towards liberation. So, somebody has a job, they can see that job simply as means I want to earn money, I want to get a big house, I want to show the world how great I am.
That mentality will bind them. But instead if they think that okay, I have a job now, I have to earn a living, and I have been given some abilities, so let me work hard to do justice to my abilities that God has given me and to make a contribution in life. Let me use my abilities to work in a mood of worship to Krishna, to convert my home into temple, to maintain the home temple nicely, to take care of my family members who are also parts of Krishna.
So, when we work in a mood of worship to Krishna, even that work can take us towards liberation. So, basically the way to move towards liberation is to spiritualize our desires, to direct our desires from temporary material things to the eternal spiritual beat. And the process that does this redirection of our desires is the process of Bhakti Yoga.
So, by practicing Bhakti Yoga we can progress towards liberation. Okay? Yes? You talked about how Krishna changed how Krishna changed his view of life. He didn’t do the praying because he was fighting with his own people.
What are the steps we can learn in our life to change the negative situation to a positive one? Simple steps. What can we do? How can we do it and what we can do? So, how can we change our frame from a positive to negative? How would Arjuna do it? So, how would it happen exactly for Arjuna that will require going into details of the Bhagavata’s philosophy. But broadly as I said, he raised his vision from matter to spirit and from spirit to the supreme spirit.
So, now how can we do that if we are in a negative frame? There are different ways but let’s take one situation. Say, if we are overcome by fear. If we are overcome by fear.
Fear, oh what if I get cancer? What if I lose my job? What if this happens? What if that happens? What if what if can lead to a mind to go on a horrendous path of imagination? So, now at that time, to raise our consciousness, to put things in the right frame, I’ve given seminars on overcoming fear. So, I talk about acronym fear. F-E-A-R So, F is focus.
Focus means what is the exact problem right now? So, okay what if I lose my job? Okay, what is the exact problem right now? Oh, somebody was fired from the company. Somebody was fired from my company. Okay, but what is the exact problem right now? I may get fired.
Okay, that’s a possibility in future. What is the exact problem right now? Oh, my boss is unhappy because I have not completed my project in time. Oh, so focus, what is the exact problem right now? So, when you focus on something which is tangible for us, sometimes putting ourselves in the right frame means bringing the zoom down so that we focus on the small.
Sometimes expanding the zoom to focus on the big. It requires appropriateness. The first thing is, come down to specifics.
Focus on what is the exact problem right now. Like for that girl, what is the exact problem right now? Okay, this water has slipped. This water has slipped from my hand.
Okay, this water has spilled on the ground. Then E is engage. Engage means what can I do about it right now? So, by this, what happens? By these two things, focus and engage, we get something tangible to deal with.
Otherwise, fear sets us fighting against an invisible enemy. It’s like, if there is an enemy, what do I fight against? Just feel that I am being attacked from everywhere. So, by focus and engage, we give a tangible form to the attacking enemy.
Now, the enemy may be much bigger than that also. But right now, this is the attack. So, engage.
So, what can I do right now? Okay, this water has fallen down. Let me mop it. This glass is broken.
Let me take the shards and put them aside. Engage. Then A is arise.
Arise means raise your consciousness to the spiritual level. Yes, I made this mistake, but I am not a mistake. I may do something terrible, but I am not someone terrible.
Why? Because I am a soul. I am a part of God. Because God is all good.
As a part of Him, I am also all good. I am also good. Yes, there may be some bad things around me.
I may have some weaknesses. I may have some shortcomings. But at my core, I am spiritual.
So, A is arise. Remind yourself of your spirituality. Remind yourself that beyond whatever bad things are happening to me or even bad emotions are coming within me, even whatever bad actions have been done by me, beyond it all, at my core, I am a soul.
I am good. As a part of God, I am spiritual. I am indestructible.
I am safe. So, this gives us some inner security and stability. And then R is release.
Release means let go. That which is not in my control. What if that goes off? That goes off.
I am not the supreme controller. There is a higher control. So, A gets us to the first level of spiritual awareness.
That is, I am spiritual. But R shifts the focus to, like I said, the Bhagavad Gita, shift the focus on the body to the soul, to the supreme. So, R is where we shift the vision to the supreme.
That, within a materialistic vision, there are only two options. Either, two ways of looking at reality. Either things are in my control or things are out of control.
But in the spiritual vision, we understand that things that are out of my control are not out of control. They are under a higher control. And, so, what that plan is, why things are happening like this, I don’t know right now.
But, if that is not in my control, let me not waste my emotional energy in trying to control it and worrying about it. Release. Let go of that.
So, by that, what happens? If we adjust the frame so that we have something specific we can do, something actionable, at the same time, we also have security about that which is not actionable for us. So, that way, we can place ourselves, place our issues in a constructive frame. Okay? Any other questions? Yes? … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … right now, should we be a pushy parent trying to achieve even more than they are, or accepting them and loving them just the way they are? It’s a difficult question.
So, should we just, what does it mean to be a good parent? Should we push our children to become better than what they are, or should we accept them for what they are right now? Right now, my concern is choosing a school. If they call it my school, or the size of the school. Yeah, I understand.
If you had to choose a particular school. Let me begin with a caveat. I have no experience in parenting.
But, yes, I have also, as a counselor or mentor, I have dealt with, not very small children, but I have dealt with many parents. So some principles I can say, specifics you will have to apply. There are times when all of us need to be pushed because the human mind is a very fickle thing.
So if somebody is discouraged and they are feeling a lack of confidence whether they can do it or not, at that time they need to be encouraged. Now what may encourage them? Sometimes it may be you can do it. Sometimes it may be that you are good right now also.
So it’s like, say if you are going on a journey and at that time, sometimes, oh, there is the destination. That may inspire us to move forward. Or sometimes, oh, I have already covered this resistance.
That may encourage us. So depending on the consciousness of a particular person, what will encourage them and what will discourage them. For somebody, you can see the destination, so far away, the side of the destination may discourage them.
But for somebody, oh, I can see it, I can get there. So basically, rather than thinking that it’s one course of action, whether to push someone or to accept someone, we have to see what is their frame of mind right now. So if somebody is lethargic and apathetic, then little pushing is required.
So on the other hand, if somebody is very disheartened, oh, I couldn’t do this, I couldn’t do that. And they need a, basically what they need is a boost of morale at that time. But if at that time you push them, they may start feeling that, you know, that means you don’t accept me as I am.
Unless I become like that, I can’t have your love. So there are two different things which often get confused in relationships. And that is what creates a problem.
There is love and there is expectation. Now we may say expectation is a natural part of love. That is true.
It is. But the two need to be separated. At one level, love, especially in committed relationships, needs to be given unconditionally.
However you are, I accept you, I love you. But at the same time, I would like you to become better. That’s why I have some expectations.
But if there is too much stress on that expectation, then what the other person feels is that the love has become conditional. That unless I meet this expectation, I will not get any love. So it’s a subtle dividing line where naturally as parents, we would want our children to choose a healthy course of action by which they have a bright career ahead for them.
So it’s natural that we have some expectations based on our understanding of what is good for them. But at the same time, they are also conscious beings who have their own free will. And sometimes when the child goes from being maybe a free teen to a teenager, they start exerting their free will very strongly at that time.
So Mark Twain is an American thinker. He said, many people have said something similar, but what he said is that when I was 15, my father was a fool. Now I’m 25 and I’m amazed how much the old guy has learned in the last 10 years.
So at 15, they think, I’m right. What do you know? At 25, they start taking responsibilities. Oh, you know, life is much tougher than what I thought.
My parents do know a lot. So what happens is that there is a different dynamics at different ages. So we have to see their consciousness.
And at one level, you need to feel accepted as we are. But acceptance doesn’t mean that we have no expectations. Yes, we want them to, we want everyone to grow, everyone to improve.
So if we understand their emotional state properly, then we can discern when they need acceptance and when they need a dose of pushing, when we have to stress the expectation. So I think getting out of our head and just hearing them, understanding them, trying to empathize with their feelings will help us, help us best help them. Sometimes we just impose our expectations on them and then we don’t understand them so well.
So even if we are telling them something which is good, it doesn’t register in them. Before people will understand us, they have to feel understood by us. Say, if we are sick and we go to a doctor and we sit in front of a doctor’s table and doctor says, OK, take this medicine, take this medicine, take this medicine.
What? I didn’t even tell you what is wrong. I know what is wrong with you. Now, even if the doctor is so expert that they can just see at a glance and tell what is wrong with us, still, if we don’t feel that the doctor is understood by a diagnosis, by a problem, we will not take those medicines.
So the doctor has to not only understand the patient, but doctor has to make the patient also feel that I have understood you. And then when the doctor gives the prescription, the doctor, the patient will take it, is more likely to take it. Similarly, the children feel understood.
Then depending on what the age is, then you can see whether they need to be pushed or they need to be accepted. And sometimes it’s not a one time decision. It has to be a decision which has to be iterated.
You might choose one particular school, but at that time, if it’s a very challenging school, then at that time more acceptance will be needed because the expectation is going to come from society already. So then, OK, even if you don’t do that, acceptance will be required. But if it’s a school where it’s relatively not so much competition, then they’re already reasonably good in their field.
So the acceptance and sense of value is already there. Then maybe expectation is more required. Any other questions? I have a question.
Yeah, please. How do I regulate my emotions and help my child regulate his emotions? OK. How do we regulate our emotions and how do we help the others, our children to regulate our emotions? Yeah.
Yeah, that’s true. Actually, we are doing a retreat on this topic itself. Yeah.
So in the retreat, the topic is burn anger before anger burns you. I will speak elaborately on this. Burn anger before anger burns you.
So how to process our emotions. But broadly speaking that emotions in themselves are not necessarily good or bad. Emotions are simply psychological reactions to life’s events.
Just as we have physical reactions to life’s events. If the weather turns cold. Some people may be extremely vulnerable to cold.
Just a little cold and they want to put two, three layers of clothes. Some people it is so cold, they go out as if there’s no cold at all. So now each body is different.
And somebody’s shivering in the cold. We can’t tell them, don’t feel cold. What do you mean don’t feel cold? That is almost like an involuntary reaction.
So now, just as if our body is cold sensitive, we can’t wish away that cold. But at the same time, we can prepare ourselves. Let me wear warm clothes.
If I have to go out, I will go out, but not without warm clothes. The warm clothes will act as a protection against the involuntary negative reaction of my body. So similarly, each body is different.
Each mind is different. So some minds may be particularly more emotional than others. So some people may get angry very quickly.
Some people may get depressed very quickly. Some people may become judgmental very quickly, whatever. So now, if this is the case, it’s not necessarily or intrinsically a bad thing.
It’s just a first thing is just observe that this is the way my mind reacts. So if we tend to get angry, you see it as a psychological reaction to life events. If somebody doesn’t do what I tell them to do or what they are promised to do, I get angry.
So rather than saying just labeling us as a short tempered or anything like that, this is the way my mind works. That doesn’t necessarily mean this is the way I am. But because my mind works this way, so if I tend to get cold, then I wear warm clothes.
So if I know that this is the way my mind works, then I can prepare myself. So as soon as I know, if we know also some people, they are going to get angry. They are going to not do what they tell us to do.
And in their presence, we will get angry. Then we prepare in advance. In this situation, I am likely to get angry.
So let me prepare for it. How do I prepare? It could be that if we know in advance, I might explode. So you might go prepared.
As soon as I start getting angry, I may take a few deep breaths. I may chant a few mantras. Or I may decide that before this argument starts escalating, let me walk away from here.
Let me, when we become a little cooler, let me talk about it at that time. So basically, first is acknowledge our nature, maybe emotionally vulnerable and non-judgmental. And then prepare to deal with it in the sense that don’t get carried away by it.
So that requires what can be called as processing. Some we usually go with two ways of emotions. Either I express my emotion or I repress my emotion.
But in between, can we process the emotion? So when we create some space for ourselves for processing the emotion. Now how to create that space? That will depend on person to person situation. Sometimes it might be some friend with whom we can talk.
Sometimes it might be like a journal that we write. Sometimes it might be that you just pray and introspect and be alone and then process the emotions. Just maybe talking with ourselves.
But we need some way to process our emotions. So some people just go out for a fast jog, basically work the energy out of the system. That will process the emotions.
Then when you process the emotions, so acknowledge, process is the second step and then act. So, OK, it’s not that my emotion is entirely. I just want to have to do everything my emotion tells me to do.
But it’s not that I can’t do anything that my emotion tells me to do. After I processed it, then I can act in a way that is constructive, that is effective. So many times we get stuck in the first level itself.
Instead of acknowledging that this is my mind’s nature, either we deny it or we either we deny it or we accept it as our own, as our own nature. It is not our nature, it is our mind’s nature. So either we deny it, I’m not short tempered.
Like sometimes some people resolve, I’m not going to get angry now. From new year, no more anger. I’m not going to get angry.
And then they get angry and somebody starts telling them, see you’re getting angry. I’m not angry. So denying is of no use.
At the same time, accepting it as our own nature. I’m short tempered and this is the way I am. That is also not helpful.
So acknowledge, process and then act. It’s a broad way to deal with our emotions maturely. What you’re saying, is this Saturday? Yeah, it’s this weekend, Saturday, Sunday.
Yes. Mataji is here. Yes.
It’s, you know, very beautiful Saturday for me. Yes, Monday, Monday? After two days, overnight, so that we can come for one more session. That’s lovely.
Yes, we have activities for kids with the family. Yoga? Yes, yoga and yoga. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Yes. So with chanting only, can we achieve liberation? Okay. So with chanting only, can we achieve liberation? See, there is always a process and there is a purpose.
So now the process will normally take us to the purpose. Just like say, if you want to go from Brisbane to Melbourne and there is a straight expressway. Just keep driving.
You will get to Melbourne. Just keep driving on this road. Now in principle it is true.
Keep driving, you will get there. But at the same time, there are things to keep in mind. That if I am driving, am I driving on the right road? If I take a wrong turn, I won’t get there.
If I am driving but I am still pressing my brakes, then my wheels are moving but my car is not moving. Because the brakes are there. So basically the process has to lead to the effect.
What is the effect? The effect is that, so chanting, it is said in many scriptures that chanting the names of the Divine will lead us to liberation. That is true. But chanting can be done in different ways.
If somebody is chanting simply ritualistically, doing it for the sake of doing it, that will lead to some benefit but minimal benefit. It is because see with a physical journey, nobody will be so foolish as to press the brake and keep driving. Because with a physical journey you can actually very easily see whether we are moving forward or not.
But with respect to the inner journey, the journey of consciousness, it is not so easy to perceive. So broadly there are two ways of perceiving whether we are moving forwards. One is that our attachment to the material decreases and second is our attachment to the Divine increases.
So when the attachment to the material decreases that means, not that we become irresponsible or uncaring but that lust, anger, greed, envy, pride, illusion, these are decreasing. And then the other is our eagerness, our attachment to Krishna increases, our attachment to the Divine increases, then eagerness to hear, eagerness to associate, eagerness to do spiritual things. We may or may not be able to do them more but our longing to do them more increases.
If these two things are happening, ideally speaking or even naturally speaking, by chanting these two things will happen. But if you are chanting ritualistically, then that may not happen at all. If somebody is chanting and say watching movies, then they are not even trying to move forwards.
So that will not happen. Now we may say, we have not watched movies but our mind also keeps showing us a movie. And if we keep watching the mind’s movie and not really focus on Krishna, and say, this person did like this, that happened on that day, this is like this, that is like that.
If we keep watching the mind’s movie, then we will not move forwards. Because we are not focusing on Krishna, we are not connecting with Krishna. So it is, there is ritual and there is spiritual.
So ritual will take us to the spiritual when we stay, when we are aware of the spirit. Spirit plus ritual becomes spiritual. The spirit is that I should be moving away from matter and moving towards Krishna.
And with that intention when we do the ritual, then the ritual takes us to the spiritual. But if that intention is not there, then the ritual may just be like driving with the brake pressed. Does that answer your question? Yes, Hare Krishna.
I see that person, I can smile at that person but I am not that person. And there is no sadness that I don’t watch movies, I don’t want to go out to eat. Like we have got rid of TV at home but there is no longing anymore.
And if someone would have told me one year back that you would be like this, I would be like, what rubbish, I am never going to change. I enjoy watching movies, I love going out to eat. But it does change you, like you have been saying, it definitely takes you somewhere.
You know that sometimes I have that longing to be like that, to be carefree, to enjoy. But then I realise that is not reality. I don’t know how to explain it but you know the higher states when they talk about that, that’s what I see, I am acquiring, I don’t know if it’s true.
But lot of changes, like you must have noticed yourself, so much changes. So if you do chanting regularly, it definitely gives something in you. Are you happy now or were you happy before? I thought I was happy before but it was empty, it was lacking and I didn’t realise while I was there.
It’s like when you live in India, you are happy. When you live in Melbourne, you are happy. After coming to Brisbane, I realised the climate, the pollution, how it affects you.
So when you are in that reality, you are fine with it. But when you step away, when you get something better, I think that’s what’s happening to me. Sometimes I look and I go like, oh my God, I used to teach while you were dancing along with Yoda.
Now I can’t, I can’t even listen to that music anymore, I don’t enjoy it. I don’t know if I am becoming realistic or the changes are challenging, I hope it is. It’s different, when you talk about the mountain, you say going up the mountain.
If you are happy down the mountain, why bother going up? Yes, there is a way to go up the mountain. But if you are happy, your life is happy in the mountain. I’ll give you an example.
An ant can only keep you here. Whereas a giraffe can keep you everywhere. So if the ant is happy where it is, why do you want to elevate all these things? You want to go up the mountain, what is there in the mountain? Up at the mountain, I don’t know, maybe there is something up there.
Yeah, I am scared too, I am scared too. Ok, I will address, if there are several points that come up over there, let me address them one by one. So I will address his point and I will come to your point also.
So yes, if somebody is happy at the bottom of the mountain, why need to go up? Yeah, there are two different things over here. One is our perception of happiness and the other is the reality of happiness. Say, now a person who is, say somebody who drinks alcohol.
They take a little alcohol and they understand, no, I am drunk. I am drunk now and if I have to go from the bar, I can’t drive now. So let me call someone else to drive or let me drive with someone else.
So when we are little drunk, we understand we are drunk. But when we become very drunk, then somebody says, you should not drive now, you are drunk. Oh, I am drunk.
So what happens is, that person may think I am normal, I am fine, but they may not be fine. It’s not always the case, but I am just saying that the perception of a person who is very high on alcohol, they think I am happy, but they might about to topple and crack their skull also. So there is the perception of happiness and there is the reality of happiness.
So now at the bottom of the mountain also, we all can be happy in different ways. The problem, however, is that that happiness is like a bubble. It’s like a bubble.
It can burst at any moment. That happiness is very contingent. It is very conditioned.
It depends on certain contingencies, certain conditions. So I am happy right now because my health is good, my family is good, my job is good, life is looking up. But life can change in one moment.
And then where is my happiness after that? So yes, at the bottom of the, in the material situation that we are in, we can also be happy. And it’s not that we are meant to be unhappy there. But it’s just that that happiness is often very dependent on externals.
And as we evolve in our consciousness, we actually learn to seek happiness in bigger things. For a child, the conception of happiness is a toy. If I have this toy, I am happy.
If I don’t have that toy, I am miserable. But as a child grows, toy is nice, there are bigger and better things in life. So basically, as we grow, our conception of what is the source of our happiness, it expands.
Start seeking bigger things. And this evolution of consciousness, it is meant to take us ultimately to the realization that I need to find happiness in the eternal. So that eternal means that I at my core am eternal.
Or at least, even if I don’t accept it, maybe let me explore it. Because I always want lasting happiness. So how will I get that lasting happiness? The Bhagavad Gita says in the sixth chapter, yam labdhva cha param labham manyate nadhikam tatha yasmin sithona dukhena gurunāpi vichālyate.
6.22 it says that that is the state of consciousness. This is describing the vision at the top of the mountain. It says that if you attain that yam labdhva cha param labham manyate nadhikam tatha that having attained this, there is nothing more to be attained.
There is nothing more to be attained. Manyate. One doesn’t feel there is anything more to be attained.
That means there is no more craving to achieve something else. There is no gnawing dissatisfaction that I want more, I want more, I want more. And yasmin sithona dukhena gurunāpi vichālyate.
At that stage, even if distress comes, we will not be devastated by the distress. We will get that inner resilience by which we can deal with it. So now from the bottom of the mountain to the top of the mountain, people can move in two different ways.
One is the bottom of the mountain is so miserable that I want something better in my life. There has to be something else. So that could be because of distress somebody moves up.
The other could be the bottom of the mountain is happy, but it’s not enough. It’s not enough means, okay, I’ve achieved my dreams, I’ve got what I wanted, but I’m not fulfilled. It is something more to life.
So both ways one can move up the mountain. So being satisfied at the bottom of the mountain may happen for those people who are in a materially good condition. But even they need to move up the mountain because their condition is not going to last.
And some people may not be satisfied at the bottom of the mountain. But most people, what they do is, instead of going up the mountain, they start going around the mountain. Okay.
Okay. Here things are not good. Maybe here things will be good.
Good point. But to go up the mountain, let’s talk practically. You have kids, you have family, everything.
You can’t just think about, okay, I want to go up the mountain. Your family will be on top of you, you will go nowhere. That’s the reality.
That’s why I agree with you. Everyone can go up the mountain. Yeah, I understand.
That’s why going up the mountain is that what about our family? They may not want to go or it may be difficult. That’s why Bhakti Yoga is inclusive. That’s why I talk about there are different ideas of spirituality.
There are some ways of spirituality is that we leave the world and go towards higher. But there are other religions where we see the world as a means to go towards higher reality. That the world can take us away from God.
But the world, if it is seen properly and used properly, can also be a tool to go towards God. So that means if I see the world as meant for my enjoyment, then the world will put me in illusion. But if I see the world, by world I am using metaphorically, things in the world.
If I see the world as ultimately coming from God, as whatever worldly position I have, it is by God’s arrangement. So let me use it in the mood of service. So then the world itself can become a tool towards God.
So Arjun was a great archer and he practiced his archery and excelled in his archery. But he used that in the service of Krishna. And by excelling in his archery, he also served Krishna and grew towards Krishna.
So it’s not that the bottom of the mountain is not so much a physical state as a consciousness. The bottom of the mountain is character. When I say from material to spiritual, material is what, material essentially means self-centered and spiritual means God-centered.
So it is a journey in which it’s not so much what positions we give up as what conceptions we give up. We may keep the positions, but if the conception is, okay, this is mine, then that is material consciousness. But this is God’s in my care right now, in my responsibility.
Then that can take us towards spirituality. So that’s why the essence of spiritual growth is not so much about giving up possessions, but it is more about giving up conceptions. The conception that is mine, if I give it up, then even if I keep the position, but still I can be in spiritual consciousness.
Now, regarding your point that say, in the past, you enjoyed something such as watching movies. Now you don’t feel like it at all. So this can be seen in two different ways.
One is that some people may feel, oh, if I become spiritual, I have to give all this up. And then it’s too much. I don’t want to do this.
So there is, you could say, organic renunciation. And you could say there is artificial renunciation. So artificial renunciation is where somebody has the desire to do certain things, but just in order to, because somebody else is pressuring them or because they want to portray a particular image to others, they give up those things.
And that is not sustainable and that is not so desirable also. But organic renunciation is where people just, I have something better to do in my life. So it’s not that one way that, okay, movies are bad and that’s why I give them up.
Now that would be like too much of a generalization. Not all movies are bad. There are movies about various different subjects and you will have to see them on merit.
But somebody may feel that I have better things to do in my life. So, in fact, recently only I read somewhere, many of the leaders of the whole software industry in Silicon Valley, in America, they are very careful to monitor the TV and social media usage for their children. They are providing technology for the whole world to do that, but they are monitoring it themselves very carefully.
So that means that they also recognize that this can lead people in an unwanted path. So for us, there are broadly, you could say, three different phases in the way we look at the world. We could say one is we romanticize worldly things.
Romanticize means, oh, this is so enjoyable. If I just get this, all my dreams will be fulfilled. Now romance you may use in terms of a particular relationship where I think I get a particular dream partner.
But we romanticize so many things also. So one is that we romanticize worldly things. If I just get this, my life will be happy.
This is so enjoyable. And the other would be, other extremists would demonize it. This is so terrible.
This is so bad. This is like this, this is like that, this is like that. Just give it up.
And in between, the bhakti way is to utilize. Don’t romanticize, don’t demonize, but utilize. So if somebody, say for example, feels that, OK, I don’t want to watch movies.
I’m not interested in this Bollywood kind of music. If you’re not interested, that’s fine. But somebody else might have a different perspective that, OK, this Bollywood kind of music is a popular music.
I’m interested in spirituality. But can I present spirituality using this music? This kind of music, genre of music, because of that they study that or they learn that and they use that. That might enhance their spiritual consciousness, that might enhance other people’s spiritual consciousness.
So we don’t want to go into the zone of demonizing things. We also don’t want to romanticize things. This itself is a source of ultimate happiness.
But we shouldn’t think that this is the source of the ultimate evil also. But rather it is of utility to me and utilize it. And sometimes if we are living in the world, we have to, to some extent, be as the world is.
We don’t want to be alienated from the world. We don’t want to be consumed by the world also. But we don’t want to be alienated by the world also.
So that means that when interacting with, depending on whom we are interacting with, we need to find out how we can connect with them and do what it takes to connect with them. So just because you’re spiritual, does that mean that we don’t talk about, with every single person we just talk only about Krishna. We don’t talk about say anything else.
Well, not necessarily. Most often we have to establish a human connection with people before we can establish a spiritual connection with them. We would like to have a spiritual connection.
We need a human connection. Sometimes for a human connection, certain subjects need to be talked about. Otherwise we will be classed as weird, as you said.
Then we don’t have to be like that. We can have a spiritual intention, but we talk what is normal. Once Prabhupada… Actually Prabhupada is the founder of ISKCON.
So he visited a particular place in America and there was like a condo. On one side, the devotees were staying. Other side, there was an old lady who was staying.
And this old lady had complained to the council about the devotees. They are so noisy. They are this, they are the hippies and they are this.
And the devotees were facing a lot of problems in continuing, in doing kirtan, in doing their various activities. Sometimes we may oversimplify things by… The devotees told Prabhupada, this lady is so terrible. She is against spirituality.
She is against bhakti. She is opposing us. And when Prabhupada… Prabhupada had gone for a morning walk when they told this.
When Prabhupada came back, instead of coming to the temple side, he went to the other side. He knocked on the door and then she opened and Prabhupada started talking with her. And when Prabhupada was talking, he for several minutes, he was just talking typical old people.
How are you? Where are your children? How is your health? How is this? And the devotees were waiting. When will Prabhupada talk about Krishna? When will Prabhupada talk about Chandni Hare Krishna? Prabhupada did not talk anything. And then when he finished, then Prabhupada just greeted her, reached her well and left.
And the devotees had a vague question mark on their face. What happened? And then Prabhupada said, sometimes old people get lonely. And that’s why they become irritable.
That’s why they become irritable. And that’s all Prabhupada said. And Prabhupada left.
And then later on that lady came to… when the devotees met that lady, she said, Your Swami is such a nice person. And of course, Prabhupada also told the devotees, don’t do kirtan so loudly in this area. The devotees adjusted and she also withdrew her complaints.
So Prabhupada brought her closer to Krishna without speaking one word about Krishna. So basically, we need to act with people in a way that they don’t think that we are weird. We don’t have to compromise our principles, but we can focus on trying to connect with them at a human level.
Then it won’t be that we will become alienated because of our bhakti. So shall we stop here? So thank you very much. Prabhu has written a lot of books.