The search for meaning 1 – How science points to spirituality

[Youth camp at Punjabi Bagh, Delhi, India]
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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Good to be here with all of you today.
I gave a talk just a month and a half ago in Canada in Toronto University on theism and atheism. I think it’s a very important topic and I will elaborate on that and I will use an acronym more M-O-R. I talked four points and after each point we will discuss you can have some questions and we can discuss that.
And we will see how the discussion progresses. So M is meaning. So basically we all need a sense of meaning.
If somebody around us suddenly does something strange, all of you are sitting here in this class and everyone of you is reasonably confident that the person sitting next to you is not going to suddenly turn at you and slap you in the face. Now you could say it’s possible but it’s not probable. Isn’t it? And if somebody did something like that, why did you do that? We want things to make sense.
And we are all constantly looking for some kind of meaning. In people’s behaviors, in the way things happen in the world. I was just a few days before I went to New Zealand, there was this bombing in Christ Church.
Have you heard of it? The shooting in Christ Church? It was in a mosque, a white supremacist, a white supremacist is a person who believes that white people should rule the world. So he went and shot many Muslims in the mosque over there. So it created panic.
So people are trying to make sense, why would anybody do like that? So whenever we hear any events happening in the immediate vicinity or in the broader world, we need to make sense of things. And basically, meaning is what gives structure to our life. And structure brings some calmness, some clarity.
Science is also a search for meaning. I was a few, I think two years ago I had gone to UK, I was invited to speak at Cambridge University. So along the way we went to the, by the tree, where Newton is said to have seen the what? The apple fall.
Some people say it fell in front of him, some people say it fell on him, whichever way. Now that tree has been preserved, so it’s considered to be like a pilgrimage place for scientists. So they go there and try to get inspiration.
How brilliant was Newton that just by seeing one tree, one fruit fall, he could have thought of that theory of gravity. So now we could say that yeah, it’s brilliant. How many people would have seen apples falling till now? Millions.
Now if instead of Newton, a monkey had been sitting over there, what would the monkey have done? Yeah, picked it up and eaten it. But he looked, what made this apple fall? So he looked for when nature works, things work in a particular way in nature, we try to make sense of those things. And meaning is basically a way we try to bring structure and order into the world around us.
So now when we search for meanings, basically in our world, in every situation, this is order, this is chaos. So order is this place where we do some action and an expected reaction happens. Say, I speak politely to you and you speak politely to me.
That’s order. But if I speak politely to you and you start yelling at me, that’s chaos. When there is an action but the reaction can go anywhere, completely unexpected reactions, then that’s chaos, that’s disorder.
So when we can make sense of things, what does that mean? That means if I do A, B will happen. That’s order. Whereas chaos is, we don’t know what will happen when we do something.
So we, our existence is usually at the junction of order and chaos. We exist over here. If everything in our life is orderly, then life will become boring.
If every single thing is pre-programmed in our life, and not only pre-programmed, you do this and this will happen, you do this and this will happen, you do this and this will happen, that is boring. Say, if we know, say now the cricket world cup is going on, so if we know in advance, this batsman bats like this, this bowler bowls like this, this team is like this, that team is like that, and say if there is a match between a team which is very mediocre, like a minnow, and a team which is mighty, we already know what is the result. Then most people will not even come to watch that match.
So if we already know what is going to happen entirely, if life is full of order, then life becomes boring. But if life is full of chaos, that means there is no order at all, then also there is a big problem. Now we want some excitement, why do people watch sports? Because there is some unpredictability, some excitement, how will this batsman bat, how will this bowler bowl, what will happen in this match? So it’s not that we want to get rid of all chaos, but we want there to be some order.
Say if a bowler is bowling and the batsman is just hitting the bowler for fours and sixes and then the bowler gets so angry that the bowler runs right across the page, pushes the batsman aside and knocks off the stump and is out. Hey, that’s unfair, isn’t it? You have to have some order. If the chaos becomes too much, even in the game there are no rules, then you can’t function.
Then you can’t function. So the point I’m making over here is this whole part of meaning. We are all looking for meaning.
And although there are some things which don’t make sense to us, but still that also brings some excitement to us. And we see whenever there is any sports, there is chaos on a foundation of order. Chaos is what? Who will bat in what way? Who will play, who will ball what way, who will field what way? That’s chaos.
But the order is, these are the rules to be followed. The bowler has to ball from here. The batsman has to stand here and bat.
The fielders have to stand in this direction. So there is the dynamic interaction of order and chaos. So we all need some order so that something unpredictable can be exciting.
If there are no rules for a game, the game will be, it will not be a game at all. It’s a, a fielder is fielding on the boundary and when the ball is coming to him, say one of the spectators throw the ball behind the head and then it drops the catch. That’s unfair.
So there has to be order. So we exist at the junction of chaos and order and we try to bring order so that we can have some sense of control. So why are we talking about this? That in life there is some order which helps us make sense of things.
We may not have complete order and we may not even want complete order. Sometimes we feel that everybody, if everybody would just listen to me, everybody would obey me and things would be so good. But actually if everybody started obeying us, life would become so boring because there is no excitement in it.
Say if parents have children. Now imagine many times parents get exasperated because the children don’t listen to them. But which parent would want to replace their children with obedient robots? This kind of robot will do what I tell them to do.
Well there is no excitement in that. So now when we look for meaning in the world, science is also a search for meaning. Meaning basically means that we look at the order and then we look for some pattern in the chaos.
So we basically try to keep increasing the area of order. Say some spin baller is there, he bowls in some unexpected way and the batsmen are bamboozled. How did that ball come? How did I get out? And then they will watch the same replay again and okay, the fingers were like this, hand moved like this and that’s how the ball came back.
And by observing again and again they try to make sense. So basically we try to increase the order but then the baller will come up with some new trick. So then again they try to create chaos.
So basically life exists at the junction of order and chaos. And science, what it tries to do is it tries to help us get order. We are all searching for meaning in life.
Meaning means that you want things to make sense so that we can live in a way by which our life can grow. When I was in America I met an immigrant from Zimbabwe and he told me that maybe 15-20 years ago the currency there had devalued so much. That he went to a shop to get some grains and he took a bucket full of currency notes and the shopkeeper threw away the notes, took the bucket and gave him grains in exchange for the bucket.
The currency had devalued so much that it was utterly useless. It just literally it had become simply useless. So now when something like this happens, we work, many of you will take jobs in future, you learn some money, get some cash, get some currency but it has to have some value.
For it to have some value there has to be some basic fabric of order in life. So where does this fabric of order come from? So whenever a disorder comes in, why is it like this? Why is this disorder there? Why is this disorder there? Why is that disorder? We look at it and we try to find their cause for it. And we try to bring some order.
As soon as we find out, okay, if I did like this and this person did like that, oh, why did he do like that? Okay, maybe this is a short-tempered person. So as soon as I understand this person is short-tempered, that means in the future I learn to explain. Then I have made some sense of that person’s behavior.
So we try to make sense of things and then when things again don’t make sense, again we try to keep making sense of things. That’s how human knowledge in every field progresses. Now, there is some order to reality and we try to make sense of that order.
Science is a powerful tool by which we try to make sense of that order. And we have found remarkable capacities to order the world around us through science and especially through technology. We have air conditioning, we have mobile communication, we have space travel.
So all these are ways in which what was previously disorderly, chaotic, now we have brought it under some control. But there is a fundamental question over there. And often, atheists, now, here, it’s an important point to understand.
I’m just, it’s not going to fall off. No chaos. Okay.
Thank you. Maybe you can write this. Shall I use some other pen? It’s a little difficult to write.
So, some times people feel that there is a war between science and religion. That if you want to be religious, how can you be scientific? If you want to be spiritual, how can you be scientific? Science is rational and religion is irrational. And this is what people think is the war.
But actually, the conflict is between, you could say, materialism and spirituality. So, this is not the conflict. This is the conflict.
And more fundamentally, you could say, this is atheism versus theism. Generally, atheists are materialists. So, atheists are people who believe that matter is all that matters.
So, you could say, matter is all that exists. Those who say like that, they are pure devotees of matter. So, now, for functional purposes, we could say these two are equal.
I met one person. I was at a talk in a university in Texas. So, one student told me, he said, I am a spiritual atheist.
I said, what do you mean? He says, I don’t believe in God, but I believe in spirituality. I said, I am a spiritual atheist. Okay.
I said, what is your conception of God? He said that, actually, I don’t believe in a God who sends you to hell just because you don’t believe in him. I said, okay. But does that make you an atheist? So, I said, that is one point.
have a conception of God, you don’t believe in him. But, if you believe in spirituality, the essence of spirituality is the idea that there is something beyond matter. And atheism, its primary idea is that there is nothing beyond matter.
So, to call oneself a spiritual atheist is like calling oneself a brilliant fool. It’s a contradiction in terms. So, most often, when people say they are atheists, actually, they are reacting to a particular conception of God.
So, I said, if that is your conception, that you don’t believe in a God who sends all those who don’t believe in him to hell, then I am also an atheist. I also don’t believe in that conception of God. It’s not that God is going to send everyone to hell.
It is, we, by our wrong choices, can condemn ourselves. It’s not that God is sending anyone. So, most people have a particular caricature, idea of God, which they are reacting to, which is not at all necessarily correct.
So, now, when I am looking at this meaning, the point which I am making over here is that we all want things to make sense. And, through science, we have made sense of certain things. But, science, unfortunately, is not able to help us make sense of the total reality.
Steven Weinberg is a prominent scientist, he is a Nobel laureate, and he made one of the most revealing statements by any modern scientist. He says, the more the universe becomes comprehensible, the more it seems to be pointless. The more the universe becomes comprehensible.
Comprehensible means, I can understand it. The more it becomes comprehensible, the more it seems pointless. Now, what is he trying to say by this, and what is wrong with it? Suppose, right now, if, when the class is going on, say the organizer sends a message to him, and then look at the message.
Now, okay, what does it say? They say that, okay, the class has gone for a long time, can you please finish it? That’s a message. So, now, if somebody sends you a message, and you look at the message, and it seems just like squiggles, just patterns of black on white paper, nothing makes sense. I say, okay, what’s this? And then, if I know that somebody has taken the trouble to put some mark over there, then it should make some sense.
Now, suppose somebody has written in some language I don’t know, then it won’t make sense to me. But suppose, if I know that it’s a very important message, so I try to learn that language. Sometimes, in some ancient ruins, there is, there are something written in some scripts, which we don’t understand.
So, I met an Egyptologist, Egyptologist, like we have Indologists, who are Indologists? Who study? Okay, Indus Valley, that’s one part, but broadly they study India, Indian history, Indian culture, ancient, basically. So, like this, what will be the Egyptology then? Yeah, study ancient India, right, thank you. So, this Egyptologist is telling me that the pyramids, they have been dated to a particular age, but what they would study one part of the pyramid, and they would find it, okay, this is of this age, and they would conclude that.
But now, in many of the images that they have seen, the sphinx and the other image, the big big images, they find that the head is of one, is of recent age, and the body is of an older age. So, what happened was basically that there was, now the current theory is that, that there were many Egyptian rulers who had been ruling, and at a particular point, somebody, some powerful Egyptian builder, big statue, and then some later king, maybe several hundred or several thousand years later came, and he removed the knocker of the head, and put his own head over it. And then he claimed that this is built by him, but it was already built long ago.
Anyway, the point I’m making over here is, again, that, so there are some scripts over there, uniform scripts and other scripts which they’re trying to figure out. What does this mean? And then, what do people write? Okay, this particular pattern, what does this mean? This particular pattern, what does this mean? And they slowly find it out. Okay, you know, okay, this means the sound her, or this means and, this means the.
So, now, gradually, you find out what the letters mean, what the words mean, and then, that way, you can decipher the message. But suppose, you find that every symbol means something. So, this, every, this symbol means this, this symbol means this, this set of symbols means this, and that way, you start making sense of the whole message.
But, after you understand all the parts of the message, then you find the whole message doesn’t make sense. So, that means that the words are put in such a way together, that each word, okay, it makes some sense. So, but, the full sentence, it just doesn’t make any sense.
What’s going on? The more the universe becomes comprehensible, the more it seems to be pointless. So, if we could understand the script more and more, then why would it not make sense? If somebody had gone through the labor of writing everything in a particular symbol, then, it should, the whole thing should make sense. But, if it doesn’t, then there’s something missing over there.
So, science has been able to explain to us, okay, why do fruits fall from the sky? Why do planets move like this? Now, why does the temperature rise like this? Why does the earthquake like this? Why do the ocean waves move like this? But, then we ask, why do we exist? No, there’s no purpose. Why do we exist? What is the meaning of life? Life has no meaning. So, the environmental patterns changing has meaning.
The earth’s patterns changing has meaning. That means, okay, why the temperature dropped? Oh, because the easterly wind is moving in this way. Okay, why is the monsoon increased? Oh, because there was excess heating in the ocean, those clouds have come over here.
So, the more we are able to make sense of the world around us through science, the less the world itself makes sense. Our existence in the world, why do we exist? Oh, we are just bags of protoplasm which have come alive for some time and one day we’ll collapse and we’ll die and we came from nothing, we’ll go into nothing and our life means nothing. What’s going on? So, it’s like we are finding islands of meaning while drowning in an ocean of meaninglessness.
Is this quite clear what I’m saying? We try to make sense of life, we try to find meaning and science is able to make sense of specific things in specific ways in which things function in the world but of the world itself there is no meaning. And here the problem is not with science, the specific problem is with an atheistic world view which assumes that everything that exists is only matter and within a materialistic world view we are born, we live for some time, we die and everything is over. What is the point of life? What do things mean? You could say there is no meaning to life.
Okay, if there is no meaning to life then why is there meaning in life? Is it it? Meaning in life means there are so many things in the world which do make sense. Why do fruits fall down? Why do the planets move this way? Why do the days and nights change? And now we can make so we find so much order and so much structure and so much meaning within life but there is no meaning to life. It’s like again the same point that the words in the sentence make sense but the sentence itself doesn’t make sense.
What’s going on you ask? Something is seriously wrong. So now why is there meaning in the world if we say that if you consider atheistic world view and we say matter is all that exists then nothing should make sense. Why should there be any order at all in nature? But if there is some order what could be the reason for that? If you consider theistic world view it says that there is order that is infused in nature because nature has come from an orderly being and what we are trying to do is we are not trying to prove the existence of God because we can only hear what we can do.
Proof is something which is something has to happen inside the heart and the head of every individual. God is not an objective reality that can ever be proven but what we can do is this is the world around us and what helps us better make sense of the world. Is it the atheistic world view or the theistic world view? What atheists often do is they point to specifics of religious rituals, they point out specifics of religious stories and they say you people are so superstitious you believe such stuff.
That’s nonsense. Let’s not get caught in those small things. How to make sense of those small things is a different thing but let’s look at the big picture.
When you say this doesn’t make sense, this doesn’t make sense, why do you people worship a stone image, why do you do that? They can ask so many questions like that but this doesn’t make sense. Our question is why should anything make sense? Atheistic world view within that there is no reason why anything should have any meaning. Now if we look at the world around us and we try to make sense of the world.
So, what happens is that there is knowledge of matter and then there is knowledge of what matters. Knowledge of matter and knowledge of what matters. What is really important? What counts? What matters? Now, if I ask you without looking at the ceiling, how many fans are there in this room? Some of you might guess maybe two, four, six, eight, one, zero.
Only if it is very hot and then you wonder why is there no fan above? Isn’t it? So, normally whenever we enter into any situation, there are so many things that could be observed. We observe basically, we focus on three things, you know, our way, where do I want to go, what do I want to do? Say for example, when you want to hear something, understand something, what do you want to do and what will get you along the way and what will come in your way? That’s how we approach the world. Now, we focus on whenever knowledge of what matters means three things, our way, what do I want to do? Then, what will come in the way and what will get us along the way? What will help us to move along? Now, this knowledge is what we primarily focus on.
So, if we are focusing on this knowledge, for living in our life, it’s important to have meaning in life. Okay, if I do this, this will happen. If I do this, this will happen.
But ultimately, what is my life meant for? Knowledge of what matters is not provided in an atheistic world. An atheistic world, on the other hand, helps us make sense of things. So, if the whole message, if all the symbols, all the squiggles on that paper are making sense, but the whole thing is not making sense, then there is something wrong with my way of evaluating things.
Something, I am missing something. So, within a materialistic world view, meaning is it’s self out of place. Why should anything make sense? But if you consider a spiritual world view, an atheistic world view, then because God exists as an ordering principle, because God himself is a supremely meaningful being, that’s why he has created meaning in the world.
Now, it’s for us to find out what the specific meaning is of specific things. But overall, it is the existence of meaning that we see in the world and that can be best explained with a spiritual world view, not with a materialistic world view. So, I’ll summarize and then you can have questions and then we can move forward on that next topic.
So, I spoke on this point of how we are all looking for meaning in life. Our overall theme was why theism is more reasonable than atheism. So, we live at the junction of order and chaos.
And order is where when we do something, the response or reaction is the way we expect it to be. Chaos is where it’s completely unexpected. And for us, we don’t want, like sports are enjoyable because there is chaos on the foundation of order.
Who will play, how we don’t know. But everybody should play according to the rules. The rules are the order and within that there’s the chaos of each individual performance.
Similarly, within our life, science tries to give us all kinds of knowledge, tries to give us some order. Why do things happen in a particular way? Okay, objects fall down. And then, if I drop this, it will fall down.
If you move it in this way, it will move in this way. So, science gives us a certain sense of order. But reality often brings in chaos.
And then scientific knowledge tries to advance further to make sense of the order. While we exist in a junction of order and chaos, then, we try to make sense of the world around us. So, now, things do make sense in the world.
Science progresses because things make sense. So, when a fruit falls, that’s because of gravity. When the temperature rises, that’s because of say, the laws of thermodynamics or the laws of fluid mechanics or whatever.
So, now, things make sense in the world, but the world itself doesn’t make sense within the atheistic world. Why? Because the world just somehow came into existence and there is no ultimate meaning or purpose to it. So, the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the more the it’s simply a mathematical rule.
This plus this will be this. So now if say you had 350 rupees and I give you 450, it will be 800. But the laws of mathematics themselves don’t explain anything.
They don’t cause anything. Sorry, not explain, they don’t cause anything. Laws are not causal agents.
Laws explain that when there is cause A, then there is effect B. So if there is cause A, what will be the effect? That is what laws explain. But the presence of cause A is not explained by the law. It’s like say in a cricket match, the batsman, last ball, you need a sixer for a victory.
And then the ball in the bowls, it’s a ball that comes right on the ball, the batsman swings and hits the ball and the ball goes over the ball. It’s a sixer. And then after the post-match interview, the commentator asks, how did you hit that sixer? He says, by Newton’s law of motion.
What? Ok, Newton’s law of motion can explain that when the ball came at this speed and you swung the bat with this speed, whether the ball would go over the boundary or not go over the boundary. But Newton’s law of motion doesn’t explain the existence of the bat, it doesn’t explain the existence of the ball, it doesn’t explain the existence of the cricket field, it doesn’t explain the existence of the cricket match, it doesn’t explain the existence of the cricketer. So for laws to operate, there have to be the cause and effect existing and the cause and effect have to exist in certain initial conditions.
Then the laws will operate. So the point which, within, if there is some, if there is a, if we start simply a materialistic worldview, then if somebody says, ok, the laws exist, ok, but the laws don’t explain anything at all. If there is simply matter that exists, then what we see is that at our level of observation at least, we live and we die.
We live and we die. And in that sense, life is pointless. Because everything that we work for is lost.
And some people say, no, I live for 70, 80 and I had a good life. But somebody might die when they’re six or seven. Somebody might die when their career is about to peak.
Somebody might die when they were just about to attain great happiness. So then what is the meaning of life? So the existence of meaning in terms of laws, this law leads to this happening. That is not exactly correct.
What laws do is, if this is there and this is there, then what will happen that the law explains. But why does anything exist at all? That is not explained by materialistic world. So, meaning may exist.
It’s like going back to the earlier example of the message. Now, the message, if I write it in a particular, okay, if you write it in this way, this means A. This means W. This means Z. Now these, you could say, are the laws of alphabet writing. Okay? So, the laws exist.
But if something is written according to the laws, some message should be there in it. Now, if the message is, if there is no meaning to the message, then the question would come up, why would this order be there at all? So, within a materialistic worldview, if there is some order and no ultimate order, then the question comes, where did this order come from? You might say, this order is just existing. Okay, then life becomes like a sick joke.
What is a sick joke? It’s a sick joke is when somebody says, you do this, this, this, this. In the Nazi concentration camps, when Hitler had got all the Jews imprisoned, what they would do is, that, they would say, work will set you free. And they would make these people, people imprisoned, like big sacks of sand, they would put them in water, make them wet, and then make them carry it across from one end of the big ground to the other end.
And then they would say, that whoever carries these bags the most, they’ll be set free. And, so these people would struggle, struggle, they’d carry, carry, carry. And then, they’d succeed, and they’d say, we’re not going to set you free.
So, you go through all that labor, then it becomes like a sick joke. If there is some order, you go from here to here, you come back here, go from here to here, come back here. But at the end, what you get is nothing.
So, that makes it evil. It’s, there is tragedy, when bad things just happen. But evil is when somebody deliberately does bad things to us.
Tragedy means, like in chaos, suddenly something bad happens to us. But evil is when somebody in an orderly way, makes terrible things happen to us. And that is unbearable.
That is, if somebody is a drunk driver and they ram into us, and we will feel angry with them. But if somebody starts specifically chasing us, maybe in a truck to knock our car off the road. No, that’s not just an accident, that’s not just a tragedy, that’s evil, that’s murder.
So, the point is that, if some part of reality makes sense, but the overall reality doesn’t make sense, then that is not a disorder, that’s evil. That’s evil. Why, if somebody is like nature playing a sick joke on us, that this makes sense, this makes sense, this makes sense, but life doesn’t make sense.
And, that would be sickening. It’s like somebody spends a, say, you send a message to me. I put a lot of effort to try to understand what it means.
And then I put a lot of effort, okay, this makes sense, this makes sense, this makes, this symbol means this, this symbol means this. And then I complete understanding each symbol. And then you tell me, actually it’s all meaningless.
So, why do you waste my time then? Isn’t it? So, that will be like a sick joke. So, basically, you can have, can you swipe it off? Either there is no meaning in the world, and then we could say everything is disorder. Or, there is some meaning in the world, or there is ultimate meaning in the world.
Now, if, if a materialistic worldview were true, then matter is all that exists, and matter just exists somehow. Then there should be no meaning at all. Why should anything make sense? Like, say, some ink falls on a dog’s tail, and the dog sweeps its tail, and then maybe there is a canvas behind, and then when the dog sweeps its tail, some pattern forms on the canvas.
And what forms on the canvas is like modern art. Much modern art is so absurd, it just doesn’t make sense. And they say, oh, this art allows you complete freedom to interpret what is there.
But what is there? There is nothing over there. So, if there is no meaning at all, everything is chaotic, and then we are simply trying to figure out some meaning over there. Maybe it is a mountain and a river over there.
Oh, maybe it is a donkey over there. Or maybe you are the donkey. Trying to figure out things where nothing makes sense.
So, either there is no meaning, there is some meaning, or there is ultimate meaning. So, if it is just disorderly patterns of ink on paper, then there is no meaning over there. Like, some children do some graffiti, or just random scribbles.
But, if something is quite carefully written, then there is some meaning over there. But why? The words make sense, but the whole message doesn’t make sense. Then, is life like a sick joke, where that’s what somebody wants to believe? That’s fine.
But, it doesn’t make sense. That why should there be, why should our life be so meaningful? This makes sense, this makes sense, this makes sense. But life doesn’t make sense.
At least, let’s be open to the idea that maybe there is some ultimate meaning, which I don’t know. So, with a materialistic world view, there is no reason why any order should exist. Because, matter itself is intrinsically ephemeral, it’s temporary, it’s destructible, it’s disorderly.
Generally, anything material, if you keep it as it is, it goes into disorder. Anything material, that’s the law of entropy. Thermodynamics, entropy is what? Anything that is material, it will go to a disorder.
The level of disorder will keep increasing in the universe. So, if there is order, where did that order come from? So, a more reasonable explanation for this is that, the order came within matter from a source beyond matter. Does that make sense? We can talk more afterwards, if you like.
Yes, there’s a question? Okay, yeah? Okay, that’s a good question. So, if I decide to seek ultimate meaning, how do I get that ultimate meaning? So this is where, I think I can answer your question in another way now, it’s a later discussion. See whenever anything happens, we try to place it in the appropriate causal box.
Say for example, right now if this light goes off suddenly, then you will wonder, has somebody accidentally pressed their back to the switch, that’s why it’s gone off. So this light going off, one causal box is the power switch being accidentally turned on. But if the power switch is still on, then you could say, has this tube light got spoilt? So, that is another causal box.
Or you could say that, oh, has the power supply itself gone off? Maybe outside the power supply, as power cord has been cut accidentally or intentionally, then all the lights in this room will be off. But when you go out, you will see other room, the light will be there. But if you go further and you see that, or maybe that the whole power grid in Delhi has crashed because of too much load shedding or whatever.
Or you could say that maybe India is under terrorist attack and our power plants have been blown up. Or you could say that there is a solar flare which has come surcharging the earth’s atmosphere and all electrical and electronic items on the earth has stopped working. This is what can happen, not can happen, it will happen.
If the sun periodically emits solar flares, sudden shoots of, sudden fire and heat and light, it just emits from the sun. And sun keeps shooting solar flares. If any solar flare enters into the earth’s atmosphere, up to a particular height, penetrates it to a particular height, then all electrical and electronic items on the earth will stop working, in one moment.
So, our whole civilization can stop. Now, when those solar flares will come and how they will come, we have no control over that. But the point is, a simple light switch, a simple light turning off, you could expand the causal box to the sun for that.
Now, normally, whenever we function, we don’t consider all the possible causal boxes when arriving at a conclusion. Normally, we try to go to the most reasonable causal box. This is gone.
Maybe the switch has been turned off. Maybe the bulb itself is pointing. So, that’s actually practical intelligence.
Which causal box to put something in? So, many times when people get into depression, what happens over there is, they basically put life events in wrong causal boxes. That means what happens? They take a small event and they give it a big wink. I was at a mental health and spirituality conference.
So, one of my friends there is a suicide intervention counsellor. That means he operates a suicide helpline. If anybody wants to commit suicide, before that maybe somebody will speak some good words to them.
And they will, at that time, pick up the phone. And maybe they will decide not to commit suicide. So, he got a call from a girl.
After this girl had committed suicide. Not that her ghost called, but that she took the heavy overdose of sleeping pills, which is enough to poison her. And then, I don’t want to die.
She immediately called him. There are some significant differences between male and female psychology. So, what happens is, males are more given to physical violence than females.
Females are given more to verbal violence. Verbal violence means they can insult, they can taunt, they can gossip, they can assassinate the character. But men are more given to physical violence.
So, this reflects in suicide also. That women attempt suicide more, men commit suicide more. Because the tendency for physical violence is not there in women.
So, they attempt suicide. No, I don’t want to do this. But men, because the tendency for physical violence is there, they can do violence against others and they can do violence against themselves also.
So, that’s how it works. So, this girl was typical. What happened was, she attempted suicide.
Tried to do physical violence to herself, but said, I don’t want to die. So, fortunately, there was an ambulance nearby. And that ambulance reached her.
And she survived. Then after that, this friend of mine, he was talking with her. He said, what happened? She said, why did you attempt suicide? So, she said that I was in a relationship with a boy.
And I called that boy. And he didn’t pick up my phone. He didn’t pick up your phone? Then he said, that’s why I committed suicide.
I said, what? And he asked her, what happened? What were you thinking? She said, I thought that he’s not picking up my phone because he doesn’t care for me. Maybe he has left me. Maybe he’s already with someone else.
Maybe there’s something wrong with me. Even if I form a relationship in the future, other people will also leave me. I’ll always be alone.
All my friends will be in healthy, happy relationships. And they’ll all see me alone. And they’ll all have pity on me.
And my life will be so pitiable. What is the use of such a pitiable life? Let me help you. So how the mind can work in a devilish way is scary.
So what happened? One, unanswered phone call. Two, my life is not worth living. It’s like, what kind of causal box is there? You have to put it in that causal box.
But people can put it in that kind of causal box. So, coming back to your question, that basically whenever we focus, whenever we try to make sense of things, we need to put things in the right causal box. But the materialistic world view tells us that there is no causal box beyond life.
You exist, you die, and life is over. But what spirituality tells us is there is a bigger causal box. That when you die, it is your body that is destroyed.
The soul continues to exist. And the soul goes by a higher plan to some other destination. Where you’ll get future opportunities for further evolution.
So when things don’t make sense to us, at that time if we have this bigger causal box, okay, this doesn’t make sense in this causal box, but look at that causal box. What is that causal box? Okay, this life is not all in all. This life is just one part of my existence.
And what happens in this life is not necessarily the complete picture of life. There are things which have come before, there are things which have come after. And when you expand the causal box in which we exist, then things start making better sense.
So basically materialism doesn’t give us a bigger causal box in which to put things. But spirituality offers us a bigger causal box. And that’s how things that don’t make sense from this life’s perspective can start making sense.
So we need to find the right causal box to put it in. Put things in. But materialism limits the number of causal boxes that we have.
Whereas spirituality opens many more causal boxes by which we can find which causal box to put this in, by which we can make sense of things. Does that answer your question? Thank you. Any other questions? Please.
Why can’t we perceive Him? What is that cause? Okay. So why is Krishna Adhoksha Ja? Why can’t we perceive Him with our senses? Yes. It’s a valid question.
There are two ways of looking at this. First is, let’s look at it from the definition of God. And secondly, let’s look at it from our perception.
So, what does God actually mean? Some people may say, God means that there’s an image in the temple. God means some person who had come thousands of years ago. You believe that that person was God.
That’s okay. But let’s start with the definition. The definition of God is that He is the cause of all causes.
The underlying order giver of all order. नतपस्तिविनायच्यान् न्याभूतम् चराचर्म् यच्यापसर्भूतानां भूजम् गधमर्चिनम् Krishna says in 10.39 Lalita that nothing can exist without Me. I am the foundation of all existence.
So what that means is, by the intrinsic definition, all that exists is temporary. All that exists is temporary. So, if we consider a sequence of temporary things, say this exists from this time to this time, this exists from this time to this time, this exists from this time to this time.
Like that, if we consider say a 100-storey building, which is 100 levels, but below that it has to have the ground. If you just have the building extending endlessly, what is the foundation for it? So, a sequence of temporary things have to exist on the foundation of something that is not temporary. If you say the building is simply existing and there is no ground, but how is it existing? No, it is simply existing.
No, the building has to have a ground. Similarly, everything temporary has to have a foundation that is not temporary. And that foundation is God.
So, God by definition is spiritual. He is not material. And our senses perceive material things.
So, why I am saying material and spiritual? Material is temporary, spiritual is non-temporary. And a sequence of temporary things have to have a foundation in something which is non-temporary. So, because God is spiritual, therefore, he does exist.
He cannot be perceived by senses, which can only perceive material reality. So, intrinsically, there is an incompatibility of them, between the instrument and the object to be perceived by the instrument. It’s like if I ask, how much should I set the resolution of a vernier’s caliper so that I can hear the sound of this music? No matter how precise you make the vernier’s caliper, still the instrument is not adapted for what is to be perceived.
So, each instrument serves a particular purpose. So, God, being non-material, can’t be perceived by the material senses. That’s one way of looking at it.
But what can a anumaya vartham? But actually, we cannot perceive, but we can infer. Perceive means see directly. Infer means try to understand something which is unseen from what is seen.
So, by observing the world around us, we can make inferences that there has to be a foundation for the world, which exists beyond the world. And that kind of inference is what we are trying to do now. Did I answer your question? Any other questions? Why cannot the basis of a materialistic thing be a materialistic thing? Okay.
Why cannot the basis of a materialistic thing be a materialistic thing? So, basically, there are two theories about the universe that existed within modern scientific history. And the theory that even atheists supported primarily was what they called the steady-state universe. That the universe has always existed the way it is.
Because if the universe has always existed the way it is, then there is no creation and then there is no creator. So, if we could say matter itself is eternal, then there is no need for God. But what happened unfortunately for the materialistic world view is that scientists have more or less unanimously concluded that the universe is not eternal.
One way we come to know about it is that the universe has expanded. The same objects, as we pursue them repeatedly, the same cosmic objects are seemingly going further and further away from us. So, another, that’s one.
There are multiple inferences or multiple evidences for me this inference has been drawn. Scientists try to pursue the existence of certain celestial objects by looking at what kind of radiation comes from there. But there is some radiations the cosmic, which the sensors have pursued, which is not coming from any direction.
It is there in all directions. It’s like, you know, if early days you had an antenna, you turn it a particular way, then you get frequency, get reception. You turn it this way, you won’t get reception.
But this is something which is a reception coming from all sides. And that they call as a cosmic background noise. And this cosmic background noise is actually the echo of the original explosion.
So, again, both ways, by the fact that the distances are, the distant objects are going more and more distant from us and the fact that there is a cosmic background noise, which does not have any source. So, basically, scientists have nearly unanimously concluded that the universe is now existing ahead of the beginning. So, matter being eternal is neither observable nor inferable.
Because what we see is that matter itself is always temporary. Everything that exists in the material world has a beginning, has a middle, has an end. So, then, we could say, okay, object A came from object B, object B came from object C, object C came from object D. But within this causal chain itself, scientific evidence says that this cannot go on infinitely because the universe itself has a beginning.
So, that’s why if you move backward, backward, backward, backward, it has to stop somewhere. And scientists say that at the point where it stops, they call it a singularity. When you come to singularity, there, nothing, you cannot predict anything that will happen.
That singularity is like, talk about order and chaos, singularity is pure chaos. It’s like dividing a number by zero. What happens? Calculator says, no, you cannot get your result.
But if you make a complex code with that calculation figured in over there, then how that code will act, you can’t figure it out. Because the computer will bring out some number because you have done that programming coding over there. So, some number will come out, something will come out on that result.
And then anything will happen over there. So, the singularity is where there are no laws existing at all. And that is the arena of complete chaos.
So, from there, nothing can be predicted. So, even scientists agree the universe is non-linear, it has a beginning. So, let’s have a break, maybe about 10 to 15 minutes, 10 minutes we will have a break.
And then we will resume again at around 11.35, 11.35, 11.40. So, thank you very much. Hare Krishna.