Is the Bhagavad-gita relevant in the age of science – MAIL acronym

[Talk to New York University students, New York, USA]

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna.
So thank you for coming today and for introducing yourself. So we are talking on the topic of the Bhagavad Gita in the age of science. Most of us, most of you are from engineering or some kind of scientific backgrounds and even if you are not, we are all influenced by science because the effects of science, especially in terms of technology, are all around us today.
So there are two broad terms. There is science and there is scientism. Has anyone heard this word scientism? Okay, thank you.
What do you think it means? Yes, thank you. So science is, you could say, more a method for acquiring knowledge. We observe, we theorise, we experiment and we come to certain conclusions.
Scientism is an ideology and it’s an ideology which holds that science alone has the answers to all questions and any question that science doesn’t ask or science doesn’t answer is not worth asking. What do I mean by this? Suppose someone asks you, does your mother love you? Now, if you’ve grown up in reasonably decent families and even if we haven’t, most of the time you would say, yes, of course my mother loves me. But if somebody asks you, can you give scientific proof that your mother loves you? Well, what do you mean by scientific proof? How do you prove that? So now the point here is not to minimise science but to contextualise science.
Contextualised science means science is a very powerful tool for acquiring knowledge about the way the material world, the natural world around us works. But there is a lot more to reality beyond the interaction of natural phenomena. And when we look at the Bhagavad Gita, science asks basically questions primarily about how.
How do things work? How does this fruit fall from the sky? How does the planet stay in orbit? But if the Bhagavad Gita asks the question why, why does anything exist at all? Of course this is an oversimplification but it’s a broad indicator. The why questions, why does anything exist at all? Why does the science can explain that it’s gravity that causes objects to fall down? That’s true. But why does gravity exist at all? So why does anything exist at all? The why questions, why do we exist? How we can live in terms of, okay, we can fly by cars, we can fly by planes or we can move by cars or we can surf on the net.
These are, these are two different things. There is the means for living and there is the meaning of living. The means for living can be improved enormously by science.
In the past people might walk or go on bullock carts. Now we can go on jumbo jet planes. In future we may have rockets taking us from one city into another, one part of the world to another part of the world also.
So the means of living is very important and science can improve it tremendously. But the meaning of living, why do I exist at all? This is equally important and this is what we get answer for in the Bhagavad Gita. So there, we could say broadly speaking there are many, there are many questions which we need to have answers for, to move forward in our life.
Science can provide us velocity, but it is, the Bhagavad Gita will provide us direction. Which, I can go very fast, but which direction should I go in my life? What should I do by which I can attain fulfilment in my life? As I said, I can have a meaningful life. So I will talk about this.
So broadly speaking, the thesis that I am making is that if we consider our life, in our life science is one body of knowledge. Science exists because we exist. Our existence is fundamental and because we exist we do science and scientific body of knowledge comes up.
So science is one way of knowing the world. Albert Einstein said that the sciences, the arts and the religions, they are all shoots of the same tree of human knowledge. So science is where you look at the natural world and try to understand how it works.
Arts are where we try to replicate it, through music, through painting, through various, through literature and religion, at that time there was no differentiation between religion and spirituality. That differentiation in the last 20-30 years. So religion is, we ask the question, why does this exist at all? The question of existence, the nature, the why of existence, that is what is asked over here.
So it is the same human spirit of wanting to know. It has different fruits. And so I will talk about four things which we all need to know in order to live a meaningful life.
And these are questions which are best answered through spiritual wisdom text like the Bhagavad Gita. So I will use an acronym called MAIL, talk about four points. Now these four points are primarily indicators of things which are important for us, but things which we ourselves do not so easily know.
So the first thing which affects us immediately is the mind. What do I mean by the mind? There is something inside us that works against us, that makes us our own enemies. Have any of you felt any time that you are your own enemy? Almost every one of us.
Sometimes we have some great opportunity and we do something stupid. Maybe say, many of us may be following sports like cricket. Your team is winning but a player plays a stupid shot.
And then they lose, not because the opposite team played better, but because they played stupid. They lost because of themselves, not because of anyone else. In hockey or in football it is called a self goal.
So we all do that sometimes. So what is this thing inside us that works against us? Now psychology is the study of, as the word says Logos, the study. Psyche is the mind.
But over the centuries science has become more and more reductionistic. And its study is, the famous scientist B. F. Skinner or somebody else said that, I refuse to study the mind because it has no locus standard. Where is the mind? If you take a microscope or any kind of CT scan or whatever, you can’t find the mind inside the body.
Something whose presence can’t be detected by science, why should we study it? So many psychologists now say that psychology is the study of human behaviour, not the study of the mind. It is ok, but it is the mind that impels human behaviour. So the mind affects all of us.
And yet the concept of mind is, I could say, in many ways, out of syllabus for science. Now what do I mean by out of syllabus? That often in science the mind is reduced down to the body, to the brain basically. There is definitely a part of, there is a relationship between the mind and the brain.
But there is a seat of emotions within us which is different simply from the brain. That ultimately when we laugh or when we cry, certain chemicals are secreted in the brain. But that secretion alone is not the emotion.
That secretion is the result of the emotion. Just like when we are happy, we may smile. Now a smile is a result of happiness.
If we could force somebody to smile, if you would get a machine, you press it on your face and your face shifts into a smile. It is like a secretary’s smile. And we may have that, but how happy is such a person going to be? So a smile is a result of happiness.
A smile itself is not happiness. So similarly, the brain and the changes in the brain states are the result of certain emotions that we experience. They are themselves not the emotion.
Laughter is not just some secretion of happiness or sorrow. It is not just some secretion in the brain, some chemical secretion. It is a deep experience, something within us.
And that is expressed as certain change of chemicals in the brain. Now of course, if somebody is always very glum, with drooping shoulders, you say, come on, cheer up, smile. And yes, you may feel better.
If somebody is always glum, cheer up and smile, you feel better. But suppose one of you is told, come on, cheer up, and the chair on which you are sitting or the seat below you is filled with thorns. And then somebody tells you, smile.
Well, you may smile, but that alone is not going to make you happy. So to some extent, when certain chemicals go down in the brain, we might take antidepressants and we might feel better. But after some time, the antidepressants stop working.
Because what happens, the brain gets desensitised to them. And then you need more and more dosages, more and more dosages. The point is that mind is something separate.
And the brain is connected with the mind. So the Bhagavad Gita explains that there is a three level reality. This three level is physical, mental and spiritual.
Or you could say body, mind and soul. So physical, mental and spiritual. And this understanding can be very empowering.
So what the Gita tells us is, it gives us a model of the self, wherein we understand ourselves better. That the mind is like a software, the body is like the hardware, the soul is like the user. Software can be a very powerful tool if it is working well.
But if it gets corrupted, it can make even an excellent hardware useless. So when the So therefore, the point here is that the mind is something which is real for us. And in the age of science also, we see that so many of us have mental health related issues.
According to WHO statistics, every fifth person in the world will have depression, strong depression during some stage in their lives. Every 10th person in the world will actually contemplate suicide. And it’s one million people who commit suicide every year.
One million people is one suicide every 40 seconds. That means since we started this talk, about 20 people have committed suicide. Worldwide.
So the mind can attack the body and destroy the body. So what is this mind? If you see the Bhagavad Gita, describes the power of the mind. It is Arjuna is about to fight an important war for establishing virtue against antisocial elements.
And just before that war is about to begin, his mind attacks him. And he gets confused. And that warrior who has never been defeated in any war is attacked by the mind so forcefully that he puts aside his bow and arrow saying, I can’t fight.
So the mind can defeat us without even letting us put up a fight. It’s one thing to be defeated after fighting. It’s another to be defeated without even fighting.
That’s what happens. And we all see self-destructive behaviour in so many people. So what’s going on? So at the very least we could say that it’s worth exploring.
Our minds trouble us and if anything can empower us to deal with our mind. Even if we say my mind doesn’t trouble me, okay. I know some other people whose mind troubles them.
Let me try to know what is all this about? So before I was introduced seriously to Krishna Consciousness, I was studying engineering in the Government Engineering College in Pune. And while studying there, I was also actively interested and involved in social service. So as a part of, I joined a social welfare organisation and on behalf of that, I had started taking free classes for the underprivileged children near the college where I was studying.
So I would teach English, Maths, History, subjects like that. And as we became friends, those kids and I, we started opening up and most of them came from dysfunctional families. Alcoholism was there and domestic violence was there in their homes.
And as they started telling their horror stories, I started thinking how much is really the knowledge of which war happened in which year and which king died when, how much is that knowledge going to help them? So then we decided to, we means the organisation I was part of, we decided to do some anti-alcohol campaigning. And we got some anti-alcohol speakers to come and speak. And many of those people, the fathers when I met them, they were not bad people.
They were very nice people and they were grateful that I was coming and offering those classes for their kids. But these kids would tell me that after they take alcohol, they would become like a different person. So then they heard those talks and they followed some principles.
And many of them gave up alcohol. And we were very happy about it. But then there was a local municipality election.
And in that election, one of the political candidates, in order to woo the people, brought two truckloads of free liquor for everyone. And not only the fathers, but even their kids drank. So at that time I started thinking, there was a big shock for us, a setback, that through education, we are opening doors for people to walk through, to a better life.
But something inside them stops them. So what is it that stops them? And then I started thinking that, okay, I see alcoholism among them, but it’s not just among them. I see this, I was in one of the best, better engineering colleges in India.
So, but I saw it in my peers also. One of the students, I studied electronics and telecom. So one of the students who had been a university topper in all his eight semesters, he was in the seventh semester when I entered that college.
He was brilliant. Oh God, this is not brilliant. What happened? Things were okay before? Were you finding it difficult to hear? Is it better now? Okay.
So he was a cheat smoker. And at that time he got the highest paying job in the history of our college, in campus election. But unfortunately within six months of working at that job, he was diagnosed with lung cancer.
It was advanced lung cancer. And he died within a year. So he jolted me again, and it made me think that there is something between us.
And it was not just those people. I also had a short temper at that time. So I used to find, what is this inside me that makes me work against me? So the Bhagavad Gita says this mind is like a programme.
uttaredh ātmanātmānaṁ nātmānaval sādhayit ātmai vayātmano bhaidur ātmaivar leporātmanā That, your mind can be your friend and it can be your enemy. The most important education that we can get is the education that enables us to make our mind our friend. Instead of letting it remain our enemy.
And this is the education that the Bhagavad Gita offered Arjuna and it can offer each one of us. How to make our mind our friend. This is the first point.
Any questions or comments till now? There are these techniques, but again and again they work on reinforcement. Is it that they are intensive enough? Okay, good question. Something like cognitive behavioural therapy can also help people to deal with mental health issues.
Yes, of course. Again, as I said, I didn’t say that antidepressants are also bad. In some cases, especially when people have some serious chemical deficiency or some structural damage to the brain, those may be required and essential.
The point is that we cannot have chemical solutions to human problems. That means my life has stress, I have loneliness, I am pessimistic. I just can’t pop a pill and think I’ll solve it.
But there are times when pills are important. So we are not placing science in competition with scripture over here. Science has its jurisdiction and it does.
Arjuna, when he fought the war, he did not use the Bhagavad Gita to fight the war. He used archery to fight the war. So this is in no way, I said, I am not minimising science.
I am contextualising science. So even pills have their place. It’s only when people become dependent on those pills chronically and especially when those pills are misapplied.
I have human problems and then I try to take a pill and solve it. It is undesirable. Similarly, we could say with respect to cognitive behavioural therapy or any of the many mindfulness techniques that are there, they can be effective, sometimes remarkably effective.
The key thing over here is that there is, in any treatment, there is pain that needs to be addressed. If somebody is sick, and they are in pain. If the pain is very acute, you give a painkiller to them.
And then the pain is managed by that. And then you give the curative medicine. So there is the analgesic, which is like a painkiller.
There is antiseptic, which is the curative medicine. So just as at a physical level, if somebody takes a painkiller, it’s okay. They will get relieved.
In fact, they will get faster relief than if they take an antiseptic. But the painkiller only covers the pain. It doesn’t cure the pain.
So they can take. Sometimes they need to take. But along with that, they need to cure the disease also by taking curative medicine.
So what applies to the body, also applies to the mind. Now, any kind of mindfulness or any other cognitive behavioural therapy or whatever we take, to some extent, they are like painkillers. They pacify the mind.
But we ourselves need to find a meaningful purpose in our lives. They can give us principles about how to live in a way that when our mind gets wild, we can calm. But that’s a painkiller.
There is pacification of the mind and there is purification of the mind. Pacification means, say, there are negative forces in the mind. There is lust, there is anger, there is greed, there is envy, there is arrogance, there is illusion.
And sometimes when these forces arise, you might calm them down. That’s pacification. And that’s healthy.
It’s required. But pacification alone is not enough. You need purification also.
Pacification means they are there, but they don’t agitate so much. Purification means they are removed from the consciousness. So, we need to move toward that also.
Any other questions? So, let’s move on. Now, A. See, each of these is a big subject and what I am doing is just giving an introduction. So, A is action.
Action means how are we to act in our life. Every one of us, we act in different ways. Say, we pursue engineering, somebody has to pursue medicine, somebody has to pursue law, and we may pursue various things in our life.
But when we act, how does action work? How does action lead to its result? And how can we act in the way that is most effective? The idea is, there is the mind, but there is also the physical reality, and we all function in the physical reality. So, with what conception, what understanding? What do I mean by this? For all of us, I earlier talked about means and meaning. So, if you ask, suppose there are three classrooms, and you ask the teacher, what are you doing? Can you say, these stupid, disagreeable kids, I am trying to teach them, and they are so ungrateful, they don’t learn anything.
Another teacher will ask, what are you doing? I am earning my living, so that I can take care of my family. A third teacher, what are you doing? I am helping create the future of the world. Here what has happened, all three are doing the same activity, but their vision with which they are doing it is bigger.
And when the vision is bigger, the inspiration, the motivation can become bigger. So, we all act, but when we act, the vision with which we act, if that is bigger, then our inspiration, our motivation can be bigger. So, for our action, the Bhagavad Gita explains, say if the teacher is thinking that, I am just earning my living, and that’s it.
You don’t earn your living, what is the use of teaching? But, the bigger the vision, the more is the way we can find meaning in what we are doing. So, the Bhagavad Gita explains that each one of us, we act in the world, but we are working as souls on a multilayered journey of spiritual evolution. And our actions are meant not just to give us the results in the outer world.
See, we do the right thing and sometimes a good result comes. And sometimes we do the right thing and still we don’t get a good result. So, our actions are not defined only by the external results that we get.
Results are important, but there is an inner result that comes. And the inner result is that action makes us either evolve or devolve. We, as our consciousness, we grow upward or we grow downward.
We create our own destiny. So, with respect to action, the Bhagavad Gita’s teaching is quite complex, but we couldn’t say that it can be summarised in an equation. Have any of you heard this verse, कर्मन्यवादिकारस्ते माक्वलिष्यु कदाचण It’s one of the verses which is well known in the Bhagavad Gita.
Krishna says that work, but don’t be attached to the results. Now, it seems very counterintuitive. We work for the results, isn’t it? All of your students are working so that you can get good marks, you can get a good job, so that you can have a good career.
So, we work for the results. So, what does it mean to not work for the results? Krishna is saying don’t be attached to the results. Why? Krishna is not saying don’t care for the results.
He says don’t reduce your vision only to the results. There is a bigger picture going on over here. So, that bigger picture can be explained as So, duty, destiny, duration leads to the desired result.
So, what does it mean? Duty, we all do something. Say for example, a farmer ploughs the land and sows the seeds. That’s the duty.
Then the rains come. In time, the right quantity. Then destiny.
And then the season changes to the harvesting season. That’s the duration. So, duty, destiny and duration, when all three work together, then you have the desired result.
So, Bhagavanta says, Bhagavanta is saying that you do your work, don’t think that your work is causing the result. If you think that, then if the result doesn’t come, you will become frustrated. Now, sometimes these two remaining Ds, they are so small, they are only so small, it appears negligible.
Say for example, we eat food, and then we get energy. And we think that I work hard, I earn money, I bought the food, I ate the food, I got the energy. Extremely simple.
I did my duty, and I got the desired result. But, suppose our stomach is not working well. We have got poor digestion.
Then we eat the food, but after eating, we don’t feel energetic. We feel enormous. We feel bloated.
Then we get exhausted just by that. So, actually, sometimes the factors of destiny and duration may almost be invisible. So, in that time, most of us, the only time we think of our digestion is when it doesn’t work.
When it doesn’t work. So, if we do not have this bigger picture, then sometimes what will happen? When we do our duty, and we get the result, we become proud. We say, how can it happen? And sometimes we do our part, and we don’t get the result.
And we will get enormously disheartened. So, the Bhagavad Gita gives us a bigger picture of our actions. Now, when I talk about destiny, what does it mean? Destiny is not some arbitrary unknown force who is working against us.
The destiny is simply the sum total of the actions that we have done in the past. Some good and some bad. And, they all come back to us.
But some of them come at one time, some of them come at another time. So, just like say, consider a cricket match. In a cricket match, there are so many times when a batsman is not out, but is given out.
And there are so many times when a batsman is out, but is given not out. So, if you look at destiny, overall, it evens out. Sometimes, we work very, have any of you had this experience, you worked very hard, but you didn’t get that deserved result? Anyone? Almost every one of us can think of times like that.
But now, if we think deeply, we can also think of the other side. That sometimes, we didn’t work much, but things just fell in place. Our ego may not want to admit that, but if you look at it honestly, yeah, I did this, of course, but so many other things had to fall in place.
That’s how the results came. So, when we understand the role of destiny, then we don’t get, we don’t, the English word is, hyperventilate. Hyperventilate means to overreact.
We don’t get extremely excited when good things happen, when we get the desired result, and we don’t get extremely depressed when the result doesn’t come. So, action is, how can we act in a stable way? So, when we get this bigger picture of life, that I am working, not just for the desired result, I am working, so that I can create a better destiny for myself. So, even if the desired result doesn’t come immediately, my actions are contributing to my future destiny.
Every good thing that I do, is going to count. Suppose some student works very hard, but somehow that student doesn’t get very good marks. Some other student just scrams and gets good marks.
Now, that may be good, at least you get good marks, and you move forward. But eventually, if that student is going to, say, be a part of some international mission, maybe launch a satellite to another planet, and that student doesn’t have that knowledge, just scrams and got marks, then they will not be of much use. But if they study, if they internalise the subject, then they will be much better equipped.
So, when we have this bigger vision, that our duty we are doing, not just to get the desired result, but to create a brighter destiny for ourselves. If I don’t get the result right now, I will in future. That vision can give us a lot of motivation, even when things are not going right.
Through this bigger picture, we understand, that when things go wrong, when we get failure, the failures are like a comma. They are never a full stop. They will come.
This can sound like a nice, positive thinking platitude. But the Bhagavad Gita gives a philosophical context in which to understand this. So, how do we act? We act to the best of our capacity in our situation, but not just for the results.
We work for a purpose bigger than the results. Then if we get the results, we are grateful. If we don’t get the result, we are still purposeful in moving on.
So, this understanding of action is very important. And that’s what the Bhagavad Gita provides us. Again, this is a big subject, but this is just an introduction to the subject of destiny.
Any questions about this? Anyone else? Yes. Okay. Okay, good question.
So, Krishna says in the Gita that whatever happens, happens by my will. So, if it’s not destined, then we may not even be able to start a work. Yes.
The second part is true. Sometimes we are not able to… We want to, but we can’t even start anything. Now we have to see what is the reason for it.
Sometimes it might be that if I want to wake up early in the morning and I put an alarm in my mobile, I see that the charge is only 3%. And I keep it like that. I put the alarm.
And at night when I’m sleeping, the alarm goes off. And I don’t wake up. I say, why did I wake up? It’s because of destiny.
Well, it was not destiny. It was our own irresponsibility. So, there are… There is something which is our part to do.
And the Bhagavad Gita is a little more specific when it talks about God’s role in the world. It is Upadrashta Anumandaja. In 13.23 it says, I am the overseer and I am the permitter.
It is not that everything that happens is done by God or is desired by God. It is desired sometimes by people. Say, for example, somebody becomes lusty or greedy or angry.
Now, broadly speaking, you consider all the major problems in the world. You could find out, reduce them to these three causes. Lust causes sexual violence and all the associated problems.
Greed causes corruption and violence. And anger causes violence. So, now when somebody becomes greedy, is it God who is making them greedy? No.
It is… Basically, this is again a big subject, but God has given each one of us free will. And based on our past karma, based on our destiny, we all have a particular area in which we can execute our free will. Say, for example, somebody is greedy and they think, I will gamble and I will make a lot of money.
Now, they might have $5000 with them and they can spend all those $5000 and become penniless. But still they spend $5000. Their free will, the scope is $5000.
But somebody might have inherited maybe $5 million and they gamble $5 million away. So, now if somebody is gambling away their own fortune, it is not God who wants them to do that. It is they want to do it and by their past karma, they have been given a certain, the Sanskrit word is Kshetra.
Kshetra is the area of control. So, each one of us has a particular area of control and within that area of control, we can act in a way that God would want us to act. And sometimes we may act in a way that defies what God wants.
And we will be allowed within that finite area. Not beyond that. Why? Because God has given each one of us free will.
If there is no free will, then we will all be like robots. We will all be programmed machines. And the idea that God does everything transforms God into, God won’t remain God, God will become devil.
Because in all the evil things in the world, it is God who is doing everything. No, God will not do those things. So, God is the supreme controller in the sense that it is He who sanctions people to do certain things.
It is not that He desires them. And people do something wrong and they get the consequences of that. The Bhagavad Gita gives the example, that just as the mighty wind moves in various directions, but it is within the sky.
So, you could say the sky is like an upside down bowl. And within that, the air moves. So, the sky limits the area of movement of the wind, not the movement itself.
Similarly, our area of movement is determined by God’s will. But our specific movement is not determined by God’s will. It is up to us to choose.
So, sometimes, now coming to your specific question that you are asking, sometimes our area of movement may be so limited that we may not be able to start also. For example, now, one of my services where I speak. So, if I get a sore throat and I am not able to utter even one word, then the area of movement will become extremely restricted.
So, now I have a certain amount of knowledge and if somebody asks me questions within that area of knowledge, I can answer. That’s the area of my movement. But if somebody asks me questions about things I don’t know, then I can’t know within that area.
So, all of us, we have a certain area of movement. Within it, what we do is not determined by God. So, God is the sanctioner, is the overseer and the sanctioner of what we do.
He is not necessarily the doer of what we do. If we act in harmony with His will, then He is doing through us. Like one last example, I’ll conclude.
I was in Australia. One person asked a question that if God wants us to do good, then why are so many bad choices there in the world? So many bad options there. So, I answered, that’s always the way it is in any multiple choice exam.
In a multiple choice exam, all the choices come from the teacher. But that doesn’t mean all the choices will take us to the teacher. Or you could say, all the choices will take us to the teacher, but one choice will take us to be congratulated and other choices will take us to be chastised.
Similarly, God creates the area within which we function. But the options are provided by God. The choices are made by us.
We’ll move on. Later on, if you have any questions, we can discuss at the end. Any other questions about this? Any burning, pressing questions? Because this is a complex subject.
So, I is intelligence. One of the things which struck me in my college days was that there are quite a few students who were brilliantly stupid. What do I mean by that? Brilliantly stupid? Like this boy, who was so good at electronics engineering any problem, just he would read it and he would immediately have the answer to it.
But then, I used to think, he can figure out any electronics problem. Why can’t he figure out that smoking is killing him? He just couldn’t. So, he was brilliant as far as electronics engineering was concerned.
But stupid in terms of the life choices that he was making. So, our IQ scores, many of our parameters for measuring intelligence, they focus specifically on aptitudes or rather abilities. What particular ability a particular person has.
And that’s important. Somebody may have musical ability, somebody may have analytical ability, somebody may have verbal ability. That’s all good.
But intelligence, the Bhagavad Gita says, is not so much about skills as it is about decision making. That what is the beneficial choice to make and what is the harmful choice to make. That capacity to discern, to discriminate and to choose wisely, that is vital.
So, now the intelligence and the mind are somewhat related. But the Bhagavad Gita’s purpose is what? We get the intelligence from within to see what kind of choices will lead to what kind of consequences and thereby to choose wisely. So, our intelligence is like our inner light which dissipates the darkness within us.
And we all can improve our IQ maybe by some practise, some training. But irrespective of whatever our IQ is, each one of us, if we can learn to resist our impulses, choose wisely in long term, then that intelligence can be a great power over us. And this intelligence can be enhanced by the spiritual knowledge of the Bhagavad Gita.
And I want to complete and then we can have more questions. So, I’ll keep this brief. When the Bhagavad Gita talks about intelligence, it uses the word buddhi.
The word for knowledge is in Sanskrit gyan. So, gyan or knowledge is more in terms of what you take in. Taking in information from the world leads to knowledge.
But applying that information in the world represents intelligence. So, sometimes a doctor may know precisely how smoking kills someone. But a doctor themselves might be smoking.
They have knowledge, but they are not able to apply it. So, the intelligence is more related to the application of knowledge. And the Bhagavad Gita is essentially an applicational book.
It is spoken to a person who is out in the world, in the midst of action. And gives him the intelligence by which to act effectively. For all of us, it’s often said, go just work hard, work smart.
So, that ultimate way of working smart is what the Bhagavad Gita talks about through intelligence. And the last part, L, is love. Love means, that here, I started by talking about how the Bhagavad Gita, sorry, I talked about how science itself cannot provide a scientific proof for the existence of love.
Does your mother love you? I once gave a seminar at Columbus on overcoming fear. So, that time I studied about the history of fear. That means, what are the top ten fears of people in the 18th century, the 19th century, the 20th century, the 21st century.
So, in the 21st century, there were two new entrants in the top ten list. One was terrorists. Fear of terrorists.
Second is fear of rejection. We enter into a relationship and we are afraid that the other person will reject us and go away. Is the other person really, does he or she really care about me? Or are they just using me? We all want to know that.
Now, with all the sophisticated advancement that we have, we can have a thermometer, we can have a barometer, we can’t have a love-o-metre. Two people are about to form a relationship, formalise a relationship. They are about to maybe take the sacred vows or go around the sacred fire.
Wait a minute, let me take out a love-o-metre. Let’s see what’s in your heart. The love-o-metre.
It can’t measure. Love is real, but it is not mathematically measurable. So, what is love? Where does it come from? The Gita explains that each one of us is a soul who is a part of the whole.
And the soul has an eternal relationship with the whole. That whole is known in different traditions by different names. One of the traditions, the bhakti tradition, knows that a whole by the name Krishna.
And because Krishna is the whole, all living beings are also parts of Him. And because they are parts of Him, so therefore, when the soul connects with the whole, the soul connects holistically with everyone else. So for all of us, we have two kinds of relationships.
I’ll conclude with this point. That we have horizontal relationships with the people around us, and we have a vertical relationship with God, with Krishna. The horizontal relationships are immediate, and they are important for us.
At the same time, none of them is permanent. While they are there, they can be very fulfilling if they go well, but they are temporary. So what the Bhagavad Gita tells us is, it is an integrated spirituality.
yajna-vibhuti-matsatvaṁ śrīma-nūrcita-meva vā tattva-deva-gacchatvaṁ mama tejo amśa-sambhava mama tejo amśa-sambhava That everything attractive in this world manifests a spark of my splendour. A spark of my splendour. What it means is that everyone who offers us any love, they are actually offering us a drop of the ocean of love that God has for us.
And wherever we get that drop, we do reciprocate with that. We have a loving relationship, but we don’t limit ourselves to that drop. From that drop, we move to… And bhakti yoga is the process of connecting with that ocean of love.
It is the process by which we direct our heart for developing a relationship with God. And when we do this, then because this vertical relationship is eternal, it can be like a stabiliser for us. In life, various storms will come.
And when the storms come, if you are all alone in the ocean, if a wave comes, how do you fight the wave? You can’t hold back the wave. But if we have an anchor, the wave will hit us, but the wave won’t sweep us away. So for all of us, in our various relationships, storms will come.
And the waves will knock us over. They will knock our loved ones over. But if we are anchored to God, then we will stay stable.
That is what Krishna tells Arjuna, that we be anchored to the divine, and that can empower us amidst life’s ups and downs. Sometimes, when we are dealing with people, there are probably two kinds of people. Some people bring happiness wherever they go.
And some people bring happiness whenever they go. Whenever they go. So now, what happens is, we would like to believe that we are in the first category.
But sometimes we ask ourselves, we might be in the second category to someone. And sometimes the same person might change from one category to another. So, what happens, our own minds keep changing, our moods keep changing, other people’s minds and moods keep changing.
So, if we are over-dependent on any relationship, then we will be very vulnerable. Therefore, what we need is, yes, we need relationships in the world. But we need a relationship that will be like a stabiliser.
And with that stability, where does our love come from? How can this longing for love be fulfilled, and not frustrated? Love often promises us the greatest happiness, and often delivers the greatest distress. That happens because the love is not well-directed. If it is intelligently directed, that means we direct it towards Krishna, and stabilise ourselves through that spiritual relationship, and then direct it in our various other relationships, then we won’t shake so much.
We will ourselves be stable, and then we will be able to bring stability for others also. And this, how to have stable relationships, this is a very important thing in our life, and this is also the knowledge that the Bhagavad Gita provides us. So, these are all concerns for humanity, irrespective of the magnitude or the progress of scientific knowledge.
So, whether we live in the age of science or not, we all need to manage our minds. We all need to act wisely. We all need to have the intelligence by which we can make sound decisions.
We all need to know how to direct our hearts to love and be loved. So, this is the knowledge that the Bhagavad Gita provides each one of us. And by hearing the Bhagavad Gita, the same Arjuna, who had put down his bow, being disheartened, I can’t fight.
I can’t fight. He had become disheartened, but by hearing the Bhagavad Gita, he became enlivened. Yes, I will fight.
So, Arjuna’s bow represents our determination. Life’s, life’s adversities can sometimes dishearten us so much. I just give up.
You might feel like that. But if you understand the Bhagavad Gita’s empowering message of love, then you will be inspired. Yes, I will rise.
I will fight. So, the Bhagavad Gita can enliven each one of us to fight our battles in life and march towards victory. I’ll summarise.
I spoke on this theme of how is the Bhagavad Gita relevant in the age of science. And I started by talking about how, for each one of us, there is the means of living and there is the meaning of living. So, science can improve the velocity with which we move.
But we also need direction in which we want to move. And meaning, means can be improved by science. Meaning requires something beyond science.
Science asks the how question. But we also need answers to the why question. Einstein said that science, arts and religions are all fruits of the same tree of human knowledge.
So, what does the Bhagavad Gita offer us in the age of science? I talked about this acronym, MIND. What was M? MIND. What was the acronym MIND? MAIL.
Yeah, good, thank you. Yeah, MAIL. So, M was MIND.
So, something inside us works against us. I talked about my experiences with underprivileged children, their parents, their fathers especially. And how alcoholism means, even if new doors are opened, people are prevented from walking through them.
So, what’s happening? There is three level existence, body, mind and soul. Mind will be the software. And we need to make sure the software doesn’t get corrupted.
Then we can function. So, then was, A was what? ACTION. So, in that I talked about, we all need to act.
But the vision with which we act determines our motivation. A teacher can say, I have to deal with these disagreeable, ungrateful, dumb kids. Or, I have to earn my living.
Or, I have an opportunity to shape the future of the world. So, similarly, when we are acting only for the results, it’s a small picture. And if the results don’t come, we become disheartened.
But if you understand, I am creating a bigger, I am part of something much bigger. And what we do contributes to the bigger picture. Of not just what results we get, but who we become.
So, I talked about the four D’s in action. Does anyone remember? Duty, Destiny, Duration. This leads to desired result.
Thank you. So, even if our doing our duty doesn’t lead to the desired result, it contributes to our better destiny. So, this can help us to be dutiful without becoming, without hyperventilating.
Then, I was? Intelligence. So, intelligence is not the information processing ability in terms of IQ or verbal or whatever. It is decision making ability.
Knowledge is how we take in information. Intelligence is how we apply that knowledge. So, that ability is enhanced by studying the Bhagavad Gita.
And L was? Love. We all long to love and be loved. But often, relationships can become extremely frustrating.
And even if they are fulfilling, they are temporary. So, is our love meant to be frustrated or can it be fulfilled? So, the concept of love itself is something which is out of, science cannot have a love-o-metre. But love is what drives us primarily in our lives.
So, we talked about how the love comes from the soul and originally it is meant for the whole, whose part we are. So, we have a vertical relationship with God, Krishna. And we have a horizontal relationship with others.
So, because we and others both have our moods. So, we will be unstable if our only relationships are horizontal relationships. If we are stabilised by the vertical relationship, then that will become like an anchor.
And when waves sweep us in the horizontal relationships, we will be so disturbed that we will be able to march forward purposefully. And just as Arjuna, who had been disheartened, picked up his bow in readiness to fight after hearing the Gita, each one of us can also, no matter how disheartened we are, become enlivened by understanding the Gita’s message and moulding our life accordingly. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. So, are there any questions? Yes, please. There are a lot of situations when our mind is conflicted.
It is torn between the desire to maybe study, you know, potential regret. In this situation, how do we convince ourselves, okay, whatever we have chosen, it’s right for us, it’s the best thing you did. So, I have always faced such situations.
There’s always led to not what I have chosen, but why I chose this or that. How do you deal with this? Good question. When we have to choose, sometimes we regret that this choice may backfire.
So, how can we choose with confidence? Both things are good. Both are important. Both are good, yes.
There are two kinds of dilemmas. It’s called moral dilemma and ethical dilemma. In moral dilemma, we have a choice between the moral and the immoral.
And basically requires strength of character to make the moral choice. But in ethical dilemma, both choices are moral. But which is the higher morality at that? That makes it even more difficult.
That requires, choosing over there requires not just moral muscles, but it also requires a refined intelligence. In fact, the problem for Arjuna was that he was fighting, but against him were his relatives. So, what should he do at that time? Should he do his duty as a Kshatriya and fight against wrongdoers? Or should he do his duty as a family member and protect his family? It was a difficult choice for him.
So, basically, when we face this kind of dilemmas, it’s not just a, the Bhagavad Gita says that our activity stems from our identity. That means, what I do is determined by who I think I am. So, we have various functional identities.
One functional identity might be you are an Indian. Another might be you are an engineering student. Another might be you are a man.
Another might be you are maybe Rajasthani or North Indian or South Indian or whatever. There are various identities. And sometimes, some of our functional identities may clash.
As a student, we want to do one thing, but maybe as an Indian, we want to do something else. As a student, we want to do one thing. As the son of someone, we want to do something else.
So, at that time, the Bhagavad Gita tells us, step back beyond your functional identities to your fundamental identity. The fundamental identity is that each one of us is a soul. We are parts of God.
And all the functional identities are roles that we are played. So, we are a soul who is playing the role of a son. We are a soul who is playing the role of a student.
And the purpose of all these roles is ultimately to go closer to God, to serve God, to be an agent of God in doing good in the world. So, once we go back to that fundamental identity, then we can see the two roles with greater objectivity. Now, because I am a finite being, I can’t do both.
So, how can I best serve in this situation? When we go down with fundamental identity and look at the big picture, there is two I can’t do. If I do this, what will happen? See, our emotions sometimes come in the way of our decisions. So, when we shift from the functional to fundamental identity, then we can observe without being so much controlled by the emotions.
And then maybe, if it’s important, we can write things down and get everything written down, write the pros and cons and wait for some time, maybe for a day or something. And then we revisit it. By that, what has happened? You got a snapshot of your mind.
And then afterwards when you observe it, because it’s outside, you have some distance. The distance brings some detachment, some perspective. And then we can observe and we can make the best decision in that situation.
Life never comes with a guarantee of the right decision. But we can get the decision-making process right, as right as possible. And if we decide, because of this, this, this, this reason, I chose this, I’m going to do this.
Then if our mind second-guesses us, we say, no, I made this decision, I’m going to stick to it now. But sometimes situations change. And based on the situation we were in, this decision was right, but now the way things have turned out, yeah, this decision is not right now.
So we can change course also, if required. So we don’t have, we can be firmly fixed in a decision without being fanatically fixed. Firmly fixed means that yes, I have done my reasoning, I have used my intelligence and I’m going to do it.
I won’t just change because my emotions are changing. But fanatically fixed means even when a decision has little counterproductive results, still I stick to it because it was my decision. So broadly, how do we know what is the right decision and wrong decision? The Mahabharata, of which the Bhagavad Gita is a part, says that broadly there are three factors.
There is intent, there is content and there is consequence. So intent is, why am I doing this? Content is our basic reasoning. Should I do this? Should I do this? We analyse it all.
And so, we can try to have as pure an intent as possible. Not my own selfish desires, but how can I best contribute over here? Then we can do our analysis, that’s the content. And then we are firmly fixed.
But sometimes the consequence turns out to be opposite. Oh, I had, with my understanding, thought this will come, that’s why I did this. If the consequence has changed, we can change the decision.
If you have this broad understanding, there are three things I said. First is, shift from the functional role to the fundamental role, fundamental identity rather, so that we can observe the situation with a little distance and detachment. Then, then get the decision making process as right as possible.
And then by the, by the three points of intent, content and consequence, analysis, we can be firmly fixed without being radically fixed. Okay? Thank you. Any other questions? You had a question? Okay.
Okay. I can give another example to explain the concept of four Ds. See, suppose a couple gets married and they want to, married, and they want to have a child.
Now, they unite, that is a part of union. But, not every union leads to conception. So, conception is by destiny.
By destiny. By destiny. And even after conception happens, it’s not that in the delivery union it will happen next day.
It’s a period of gestation, nine months. And after that, there’s delivery. That’s the desired result.
So, duty, destiny, duration, leads to the desired result. So, that’s the broad analytical framework for understanding how our actions lead to results. Oh, okay.
Okay. I phrased it in a way that was confusing. So, are we striving for destiny or are we striving for the desired result? That’s a good point.
So, basically, I could draw it, but you can visualise it. All of you are sharp enough to visualise. Imagine there is a big water tank in which water is going in from one pipe.
And water comes out from another pipe. But inside, it’s not just a plain water tank. In that water tank, there are many pipelines.
So, some pipelines, one pipeline is straight. Water goes in from here, comes out from here. Other pipeline is, water just goes round, round, round, round and then it comes out.
Other pipeline, the water goes round and round and round and round and round and after a long time it comes out. So, for all of us, when we work, that’s like putting water into the tank. And when we get the result, that is like the water coming out.
So, now, imagine, just to make this picture a little more complicated, that say, all these pipes, the straight pipe, the twisted pipe, the super twisted pipe, all three are connected to the same inlet. And, there is a knob which shifts unpredictably. And sometimes, this water just goes straight into the straight pipe and comes out.
Sometimes it stays inside for a long time. So, now, in which position the knob is, we don’t know. So, sometimes what happens, when it’s in a, the knob is in the position where we do the action and the water flows through and we get the result.
So, in those situations you could say that the destination is favourable, that the duration is very less and we get the result. So, but, if the water flows in, but, but water doesn’t come out from here, what has happened over there is that the water has gone inside. So, in this case, that water didn’t flow out from here, that means we didn’t get the desired result.
But, that water has not got wasted. That water has gone inside and will eventually come out. That means that water is contributing to our destiny, our future destiny.
In future, when water will come out. So, destiny here can refer to how, to what all is required which is beyond our control for our action to produce the result. And, that is favourable, sometimes it’s unfavourable.
But, that favourable and unfavourable is not arbitrary. That favourable and unfavourable working of destiny is also determined by our past good or bad actions. And, therefore, if our actions, the water doesn’t flow directly out from here to here, then still, so the water, so in one sense, the duty of pushing the water here, the destiny of the water being on the knob by which it will flow straight, the duration for it to flow and then the desired result.
So, in this case, destiny refers to which knob, which position the knob is in, so that the water will flow accordingly in that pipe. That’s destiny. But, destiny also can refer to the total quantity of water in the tank.
Destiny can refer to which path the water takes when coming out. But, destiny can also refer to how much water is there in the tank. Somebody might be putting a lot of water from here, but they’re not getting any water out there.
That means that all our good work is going waste? Not necessarily. Maybe you’re going through a bad phase right now. That’s why there’s no water coming out.
But, eventually, you’ll come to a good phase where a lot of water will come out. So, destiny refers to both the path by which the water comes out and destiny also refers to the total quantity of water in the tank. See, that’s also an important thing.
We always see, for example, some people may do a lot of bad things and still good things. They have all the good things of life right now. So, why is that? That’s because right now, in their previous lives, in the past, they had put a lot of water over there and that water is coming out now.
So, now, all the water that is going in, it’s like now if somebody’s doing bad things, that means they’re putting dirty water over there. All the dirty water is also going to come out. But, right now, they’re putting in dirty water but they’re getting out good water.
That’s because there’s a lot of good water they have put in the past in that water tank. That’s going to come out. But even the good dirty water will come out eventually.
So, thank you very much for your attention and thoughtful participation. Hare Krishna.