Comparing exiles in Ramayana, Mahabharata, Bhagavatam – How to face distress

[Talk at Hillsborough, USA] Video:

Hare Krishna Thank you for coming today. Am I audible behind? Can you hear me? Thank you. So, today, I'll speak on a comparison between Ram Leela and Krishna Leela for drawing some overall life lessons from it.

In the history of our tradition, there is one theme which runs consistently and that theme is that everybody, whoever they may be, they have to go through difficulties, through suffering when they are in the world. And now, with respect to Krishna Leela, we can refer to Mahabharata and we can also refer to Bhagavatam. So, Mahabharata is also Krishna Leela, but there Krishna is more the guardian and the protector and the Pandavas are the central heroes.

In the Bhagavatam, it is Krishna who is the centre. So, I'll talk today about the concept of exile and how that occurs in Ram Leela, how that occurs in Mahabharata and how that also, our Acharyas explain, occurs in Krishna Leela. So, now, when Lakshman comes, when Bharat comes back from the on being called by Vasistha and his mother tries to spin the whole story as if I was protecting your right to the kingdom and she says that Ram has been exiled to the forest by the king.

Ram, exiled? That is impossible. Ram is a person who cannot do even the slightest of wrongs. Sin cannot even cross his mind.

And exile is such a serious punishment. There is only one punishment that is worse than exile and that is execution. That means that if a person is committed such an unforgivable crime that you take their life.

But exile means you take everything except their life. So, what crime could he have committed that he was just sent away like this? What could he have done? The whole idea of exile is almost not so easily understandable for us in today's world. Maybe we can get some understanding of it if we consider that many of you are here from India and say you got your job here, you got career here and suddenly your visa doesn't get extended.

It will leave and go away. And even then we have some family, we have some friends in India. In some way that is our home.

But even then to leave everything and go is so disorienting. But if we have to go then everything is there at one place and you have to leave and go away. It's extremely difficult.

And if you look at it from the point of view of like Bharat is looking fairness or unfairness it appears utterly unfair. Ram was flawless. Maybe his only mistake was that he was a stepson of a manipulable woman like Kaikeyi.

She was not manipulative. She was manipulable. It was Mantara who manipulated her.

So there is no fault. He had not offended her in any way. He had not slighted Bharat in any way.

So for no fault at all he was sent out into exile. So this is broadly speaking there are sometimes when suffering, how does it come upon us? Sometimes broadly we can say one way is that we have just done nothing wrong but somebody gets on our case. And somebody just becomes our enemy.

Sometimes I try to help in conflict resolution. So two people when they are talking sometimes they are so antipathetic to each other. So averse to each other.

So I remember one person he said this other person was speaking. He says whatever you say I disagree with you. So it's a presumption that you are wrong and I am right.

Or I don't agree with you. So without even considering the content of what is being said or what is being done. And sometimes it happens to us like that that some people get so angry with us get so upset, they just get wild at us.

Whatever we do they just try to twist it in a way as if we are selfish and manipulative. Even if we try to do something good they try to uncover some, or imagine not even uncover, imagine some ulterior motive behind it. So this is one broad situation where Ram was forced out because of no fault of his.

Now if you consider the exile as compared to this in the Mahabharata. The exile in the Mahabharata is the result of a mistake. Whose mistake? Yes.

Now mistake is a strong word to use and I will qualify that. The Lord's pastimes can be understood at different levels. Or the pastimes of the Lord and his devotees.

At one level we can say it is all an orchestration of the Lord. It is all a Leela. And that is a good perspective to have so that we don't judge and minimise great characters.

We have to understand that each one of them is a very special character. So that's one perspective. Another perspective is that if we want to learn some lessons, some ethical lessons for our own understanding and edification, then we can look at the perspective of not that this character was wrong so much as this action was wrong.

And we see Prabhupada himself adopts this strategy in the Bhagavad Gita. In his Bhagavad Gita as it is in the first chapter and the second chapter. The way Prabhupada talks about Arjuna is dramatically different.

In the first chapter Purports, Prabhupada is saying how Arjuna is so thoughtful. Although war is about to begin, he is not just thinking about immediate fighting and winning. He is thinking about long term consequences.

He is considering, even in such an urgent situation, the right course of action. And such a thoughtful person definitely deserves spiritual knowledge. And as soon as the second chapter starts, 2.1, that purport itself, Prabhupada is saying that Arjuna is in tears.

His tears are a sign of ignorance, of lamentation, of the bodily conception. What is the use of trying to save the dress of a drowning man? The skin disease is what everyone is infected by. Very strong purports.

So, what happened? Suddenly, how did Arjuna change from a good guy to a bad guy in one chapter? No, it's not like that. Madhusudana Saraswati is a prominent commentator on the Bhagavad Gita. So, he is from the impersonalist Advaitic background.

But his commentary has been quoted by Vishwanath Chakrathakur also. And he has written quite nicely on the Bhagavad Gita. And he was a person who actually was a follower of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

And he went with Jiva Goswami to Varanasi to study Sanskrit, so that he could learn Sanskrit grammar and expound the Gaudiya Vaishnava Siddhanta. Although both of them went there, Jiva Goswami survived that. That all that mayavadi environment.

But Madhusudana Saraswati got affected by that. So, still, he still, he never minimised Gaudiya Vaishnavism, but he felt that Advaita was what he wanted to pursue. So, in his commentary he explains, another commentator also point towards that, but in his commentary he specifically says that the first chapter of the Bhagavad Gita is meant to demonstrate Arjuna's worthiness as a student.

Arjuna's worthiness as a recipient for spiritual knowledge. So, it demonstrates Arjuna's qualification. So, that's why Prabhupada also takes that mode and says, yes, he is qualified.

But the second chapter starts with stressing that Arjuna does not have spiritual knowledge. Yes, you are qualified for spiritual knowledge, but right now you do not have. So, it's one thing to, the greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is the illusion that we already have knowledge. When we think we know, then we don't think I need to learn anything more. So, Prabhupada says, yes, he is qualified to learn, but he doesn't know anything right now.

So, that's why there is difference. So, we could say that actually Arjuna's getting illusioned was by Krishna's plan and that's true. But if you want to talk about how the Bhagavad Gita's knowledge led to a transformation of Arjuna's consciousness, then we have to start with the point that Arjuna was ignorant before and he became enlightened.

So, depending on perspective, we see things differently. So, similarly, Yudhishthira is a pure devotee, but at this particular point, he commits a mistake. So, when he commits this mistake, what exactly happens? If you see, he gambles and when he starts gambling, initially, it's just supposed to be a ritual play.

There are multiple reasons why Yudhishthira gambled at all. According to some traditions, they just said that after the Rajasuya Yajna, one of the ways in which the whole event was completed was, there should be a gambling match. Another was Yudhishthira saw that his father figure, Dhritarashtra, had asked him to gamble.

So, he knew that gambling here was dangerous. He tried to avoid it, but he felt impelled to obey his elders. And also, just when the Rajasuya Yajna got over, Vyasadeva had told him that although you have become the king, your rule will not be short, will not be stable right now.

There will be a great war in the future and after that war, you will rule stably. So, then Yudhishthira thought that, oh, this great war is going to happen. Better that I'll try to avoid this war.

And only war is caused by dissension, war is caused by disobedience, war is caused by divisiveness. So, he said that I will always obey my elders. And he in a sense trusted his elders that they would make sure that things would go out harmoniously.

But among his elders was one person who was very not exactly wicked, but he was weak. There is weakness and there is wickedness. So, weakness is where a person has, say, lust, anger, greed.

But sometimes that takes them over and they do something wrong in some moments of weakness as we say. But then after that, what did I do? Why did I do such a thing? They regret it. They try to correct it.

They try to atone for it. But wickedness is where a person does something wrong and they don't even feel bad about doing it. In fact, they try to do it in such a way that they try to cover their tracks carefully.

And the more they can get away with things, they think the cleverer I am. that is, Dhritarashtra was not exactly wicked. He had weakness.

But there was somebody around him who had wickedness. Who was that? Duryodhana and then Shakuni, both. So, Shakuni didn't have direct influence over Dhritarashtra so much.

But it was a chain. So, anyway, Dhritarashtra was an elder who almost pushed Yudhishthira into that terrible gambling match. Now, of course, still, later on, Yudhishthira himself admits his mistake.

He said that during the heat of the gambling match, I got carried away. So, it was a mistake from his part. But to lose everything because of one mistake, it's horrible.

So, the Pandavas also had to go to exile. Now, if you see, when in the Ramayana the exile is there, there are four brothers out of which two go, Ram and Lakshman along with Sita. In the case of the Pandavas, all five Pandavas go to the forest.

And Draupadi goes to the forest. But interestingly, Subhadra does not go to the forest. Why? Because Subhadra is not there at that time.

After the Rajasuya Yagya happened, then Subhadra goes with Krishna back to Dwarka to be with him for some time. And thus, when the gambling match happens, it is Draupadi and the Pandavas who come there. So, Subhadra is not staked at that time.

And thus, she does not go. The Pandavas and Draupadi go to the forest. And for them, especially for Bhima and Draupadi, this is a time of extreme frustration and anger.

Everybody goes through pain at that time. But these two go through the greatest pain. Because Draupadi has been dishonoured and Bhima, especially for somebody, for anybody to be put in a powerless situation is painful.

For somebody who is extremely powerful, for them to be put in a powerless situation is almost unbearable. It's like all of us if we have a fracture and we can't move about, we will be annoyed, we will be troubled. But if somebody is an athlete and they have a fracture, then the frustration will be even more for them.

So, like that Bhima is the most frustrated, most angry during this. And they live through that exile. Now, that's the Mahabharata.

Now, in Krishna Leela, is there any exile? In Krishna Leela directly? This is beautiful. The Gopis in one sense, yes. Now, Jiva Swami in Gopal Champu describes very beautifully that for Krishna, leaving Vrindavan was like an exile.

Although he did not go to the forest, he went from the forest to a kingdom. First to Mathura and then to Dwaraka. But for him, that kingdom was like a wilderness.

Wilderness because of course, the people around him loved him. But still, his heart longed to be with the Vrindavansis. And it was like an exile.

And especially for Krishna, it was extremely difficult. Why? Because, how old are you? Nine. Thank you.

What is your name? Ayush. Thank you, Ayush. So, Krishna was just about as old as you are.

So, when Krishna had to leave Vrindavan, we see Krishna as a hero who brought down Kamsa and he brought down all those great demons. Even before that, when he was a child, yes, he had phenomenal powers and he manifested them whenever required. But, Krishna was just at the age of seven, he performed Govardhanila.

At the age of eight, he performed Rastila. And Rastila is chapter 29 to 33. And chapter 40 in the 10th canto of the Bhagavatam is when Krishna is leaving Vrindavan.

So, he is barely ten at that time. And now, if you look at the Bhagavatam, it is, it is, it is a little vague whether the Vrajivasis and Krishna know beforehand that Krishna does not belong to them. If we as the readers of the Bhagavatam know that Krishna was born in Mathura and then he came to Vrindavan, but Vasudev never tells this to Nanda Maharaj whenever he meets him.

Once when he meets him. And then Gargamuni also, when he comes there, Gargamuni is very diplomatic. He says that in the past, this, in the past, your son was the son of Vasudev.

Now, in the past, Nanda Maharaj thinks this means in a previous life. But it is in this life itself. And he also says, your son is as good as Narayan.

And he doesn't say your son is Narayan. He says as good as Narayan. So, the Vrajivasis at one level, they know Krishna is special, but they are not consciously always aware that Krishna is God.

Their awareness of Krishna's Godhood is like the presence of stars in the sky during daytime. Stars are there even now in the sky. But the sun is so bright that we can't see the stars.

Similarly for the Vrajivasis, their love for Krishna is so strong that the Sambandha Gyan, the knowledge that Krishna is God, that is like stars, that goes in the background. They are not aware of it. So, for the Vrajivasis, when Akrura comes to Vrindavan and takes Krishna away, it's a big disruption.

Somehow at that time, it's only the gopis who feel that if Krishna goes, he will not come back. All other Vrajivasis think, yes, Krishna is going, Kamsa has called him, Krishna will go and he will come back. And Krishna also has full intention of coming back.

Krishna goes and when Kamsa tries to commit atrocities over there, have all the Vrajivasis arrested when some of his demons are, some of his wrestlers are killed, at that time, Krishna pounds Kamsa to his death. And then, after that, Krishna is Krishna is happy and Kamsa is dead and then he goes to the Yadu elders and says, he is about to go back. And they bring the crown to him.

He says, I cannot take the crown. Maharaj Ugrasen is there. He should become the king.

They are very happy. He says, you are so gracious that although you are here, you don't want to be the king. I am not going to be here.

What do you mean I am here? Then they say that actually Krishna he says, you are our son. No, I am the son of Adananda Maharaj and Yashoda. He says, no.

He says, you were actually born to Vasudeva and Devaki and you were taken from here to Vrindavan. This is not true. Sometimes there are these children who remember their past lives and we might see very sensational stories.

Oh, somebody remembers, oh, I was here and I was there. But actually for the children who go through that, it's not very pleasant. They have a very agonising question.

Who am I? Am I the son of these parents or am I the son of those parents? So, it's disorienting. So, for Krishna, Vrindavan is all that he has known and Vrindavan is the place where he has been loved and where he has loved everyone. And suddenly to be told that you belong to someone else.

If a child has been adopted and the parents don't tell the child has been adopted and maybe when the teens or something later the child comes to know. It's quite, we all form a particular identity based on our connections and to suddenly have that taken away from us is very difficult and Krishna refuses to accept. I am the son of Nandamaharaj and Yashoda.

And then the Yadus say that's not true Krishna. It was prophesied by the gods that the eighth child of Devaki will be the one who will kill Kamsa. And you have killed Kamsa.

Therefore, you are the son of Vasudev. Now, at that time when Krishna hears this he becomes silent. At that time they didn't have custody battles with genetic testing to find out who is the actual parent.

Now, not only what happens is, for Krishna it is like a big shock. But Krishna has to process the shock and then for what happens is, there is the way Jiva Goswami depicts it in Gopal Champu, he depicts the whole of Krishna Leela from the perspective of the Rajivasis. And Krishna also as a Rajivasi.

So, in that sense, he often casts the Mathuravasis, the Yadus, slightly in a negative light. Not entirely in a negative light. But they are the people who have taken Krishna away from him.

So, what happens is the Yadus, they don't even know, from the Yadus perspective, they don't even know they are Rajivasis. And then, they say, Krishna you must stay here with us. And now Krishna is just a ten year old boy.

Now, he has to go and tell his parents that I am not going to come back with you. And then he goes and he has to say this. When he says this, he is crying, Nanda Maharaj, he says, this is nonsense.

You are my son. You are Yashoda's son. Now, they are saying that, based on the prophecy, I killed Kamsa, therefore, I must be your son.

So, Nanda Maharaj is so heartbroken that he starts laughing. Why laughing? If you are heartbroken, you will cry. Sometimes, laughing is the only way to stop yourself from crying.

So, he starts laughing and he says, sarcastically, it is a matter of pride for us, poor Rajivasis, poor cowherd men, that the one who belongs to us is being claimed by great people. Very sarcastic, right? What kind of great people are these? They are digging something. They are so great.

They are taking something away from us. Then, they say that, Krishna, if you are going to stay here, I cannot live without you. I will also stay here.

We will form a camp over here and we will stay here. You can stay in Mathura and we will stay outside Mathura. And Krishna says, what about my Yashoda? He says, she will also come and stay with you.

How do you think she can stay separate from you? He says, but what about our cows? They can also stay here. He says, no, the cows need a place for grazing and there is not enough place in Mathura and we are all servants of the cows and we cannot put the cows to trouble because of ourselves. Oh Nanda Baba, you will have to go back.

Nanda Maharaj says, I will go, but every week I will come to meet you. Krishna becomes extremely grave and Krishna says, no Nanda Baba, you can never come to meet me. What? Why? Are you rejecting us Krishna? Do you not want to see us anymore? He says, I love to be with you, I belong to you.

But he says, that now that I have killed Kamsa, Kamsa's friends will all come to take revenge and if they come to know that you are so dear to me, then they will attack you. So nobody in the world should know how dear you are to us. Let the world think that as long as Kamsa was living, I just happened to stay with you.

But after Kamsa was killed, I came back and I had no connection with you. That way you will stay safe. Nanda Maharaj says, our heart will be broken, what kind of safety is that? We can't live without you Krishna.

Nanda Maharaj says, Krishna says, it will be very difficult for me also. But soon I will kill all the demons and I will come back to Indra. And Nanda Maharaj says that but the cows, we may live, Yashoda may live, but the cows can't live without you.

So Krishna and Balram is standing behind. So Krishna and Balram they take out the clothes, the upper clothes which they are wearing and they say, give this to Sudama and Spoka Krishna. So they look a little bit like Krishna and Balram.

And he says, if they are wearing our clothes then the cows will get our fragrance from it. And that way they will think it is we. And they will be pacified.

And Krishna agrees this and then the Vrajavasis depart from there. So this period is like an exile for Krishna. And although at one level Krishna is a hero, he has killed a demon but still he is just a ten year old boy.

And suddenly he is taken away from his home, taken away from everyone he loves and he is put in another place. And Vasudev sees that Krishna has difficulty even in addressing Devaki as mother. She has not been his mother.

And he becomes concerned. There is between a mother and a child, a small child there should be intimacy. But if there is formality then how will the child get the emotional nourishment.

So then he thinks what to do. He says yes. There is one person who is in Vrindavan who can come here and she can act as a bridge between us and Krishna.

Who is that? Rohini. So then he calls Rohini back. Now that Kamsa is dead, you can please come back.

And when Rohini comes back and Krishna and Balram run to Rohini and they hug her legs and they start pouring out their whole heart. Because everybody in Mathura, what happens is they are fearful that Krishna may go back to Vrindavan. And that's why what they try to do is they try to make Krishna forget Vrindavan.

And if Krishna tries to talk about Vrindavan they start disapproving it. That's why Krishna can't talk anything also. We are all very socially responsive creatures.

If right now I am speaking and if I speak something and every one of you start glaring at me. Immediately I think what did I do? Did I speak anything wrong? There is one place where I go and there is one devotee he comes and sits right in front and throughout the class he is glaring at me. Not staring, glaring as if he is so angry with me.

The only way I can give a class is not look at him during the class. So, we are all socially responsive creatures. And if we do something which everyone around us disapproves then we stop doing that.

Most of the time. Sometimes our goal itself is to irritate others. Then we might do that.

But usually we are very socially responsive. And especially children. If all the elders start disapproving something that they are doing then they don't do it anymore.

So Krishna can't even speak about Vrindavan. And then Krishna and Balarama pour out their heart to Rohini. And Rohini gets some sense of what is happening.

And then Rohini tries to tell the Mathura Vasis just how much the Vrajvasis loved Krishna and how much Krishna loved the Vrajvasis. So for the Mathura Vasis, the Vrajvasis are like people who are going to steal their child away. And it's not like that.

They gave their life for him. But the Mathura Vasis are so worried about losing Krishna, they start saying, Rohini, you have stayed in Vrindavan, have you also become a Vrajvasi now? What do these Vrajvasis do? They have their cows and they have their milk and they prepare milk sweets and with these sweets they destroy the intelligence of whoever goes there. So Prabhupada says the way to the heart is through the stomach.

He says, what have these Vrajvasis done? So now Rohini sees this response and Rohini can't speak anything more. So Krishna is in the palaces of Mathura but he feels as if he is in exile. He is away from all those whom he has loved.

And for him while he is in this way in exile, who are the people with whom he can share his heart? It's like Ram had Lakshman and Sita. So Krishna, whom does Krishna have? Balram and Rohini to some extent. But as they grow up, it is only Balram because Krishna goes to the Gurukul.

Gopalchampu describes how in the Gurukul when Krishna and Balram would be together, they would have their lessons during the day. And he says that we know Krishna learned everything very fast. Then you know in how many days? 64 days he learned all the skills.

So now of course Krishna is brilliant and he can learn very fast. But at one level Krishna couldn't tolerate the idea that I am so far away from Vrindavan. Sandipanik means the ashram was quite far away.

At least Mathura is close by. So Krishna wanted to finish all the learning as fast as possible so that he could go back to Mathura and then he will be close to Vrindavan. At that time when they were away, so at least although Nanda Maharaj had been told that you please don't come Nanda Maharaj would send some messengers in disguise and they would come and they would ask about Krishna's well-being they would talk about Vajvasi's well-being and that would go on.

But when those messengers came and they found Krishna was not there they were alarmed. Where did Krishna go? What happened to Krishna? And there was no contact at all between Krishna and Vajvasi during the Sandipani Muni's Gurukul stay. And that's why Krishna tried to finish it as quickly as possible and come back.

And there when they were there all day they would be learning various things and at night Krishna and Balram would sit together and they would talk about the places and pastimes of Vrindavan and they would pour out their hearts their hearts would melt and come out as tears from their eyes and they would hug each other and bathe each other with tears and they tried to mitigate the agony of the separation. So exile is caused the essence of exile when you say exile it's like oh you're taken away from your wealth, your kingdom and everything else. But basically actually we all want certain possessions we all want certain positions in our life and that's what we all pursue and that's fine to some extent we need these things but real happiness is not in possessions and positions it is in connection and contribution that is what are the relationships that we have, how are we connected with the people around us that is more important and contribution is what are we doing with whatever we have so of course possessions and positions are important why are they important to the extent they can help us to develop connections and make contribution if we look at our lives which are the happiest moment in our life we may think oh the day I bought a new house or the day I went to the station or the day I did this or that but it is not just buying those things or going to those places it is the people with whom we went there it is the loving exchanges that we had at that time that is what brings joy so after talking these three stories of exile now talk about how can this exile how can this kind of adversity be faced now there are individualities which if we get time we will go through but we will focus on the common principle first that generally when difficulties come in our life basically they come in these two things in terms of our possessions and in terms of our positions something which we have very valuable is taken away from us it can be there is some financial upheaval and we lose some money or we have a particular job and then there is politics and we are not able to rise in the job or whatever so many things can go wrong or we might be we might be in a very healthy influential position suddenly we become sick and because of that sickness we may have a job but we can't function in that job we lose that position in that sense so generally the adversity that fall in our life are in terms of possessions and positions that we lose something which we value and possessions and positions are both important but there is a difference between what we live with and what we live for so most people think that progress in life means they want to improve what we live with so positions and positions are what we live with we need them to function in the world but we don't live for them if we live for them then I want to get to the top top in my office top in my family, top in my dynasty and for that they cut down everyone else they just dismiss all competition around them then they may get to the top they may have a big post and a big position and a big house but that big house and that big position only provide them the privilege of a lot of place lot of space in which to feel lonely a lot of space in which to feel lonely so possessions and positions are resources if they become our purposes then we are missing out on something very important in our lives the simple example to illustrate this is like a car now what we drive with is not what we drive for we drive with fuel and if we don't have fuel we can't function we do need fuel at a basic level but somebody says where are you driving? I go to the gas station after that? then I go to the next gas station then after that? next gas station but where are you driving? I am driving to fuel my car that's absurd where do you want to go? so what we drive with is not what we drive for so we drive for getting to a particular destination and for that we need fuel so positions and positions in life are what we drive with what we live with their resources at some basic level we need them but when we start driving for them then we get disoriented we go off on the path of self destruction because of that so basically if we see in all these cases what is it that solaces them that they all exiles in one stroke in one painful moment all positions and all positions are lost for Ram he is a prince about to become the king and next moment he is ascetic, he doesn't even have any proper clothes except those made of tree bark the same with the Pandavas, the Pandavas are not even princes who are going to become kings they are emperors of the world and just the next moment everything is taken away, positions and positions are just ripped apart from them in one moment and same way with Krishna in one sense it is everything that he values for him it is the cows that are positions Godhana, that's what he treasures but he is taken away from the cows, you don't see Krishna tending cows in Dwaraka or Mathura there are cows but he is a Kshatriya he can't do that and for him the Rajivasi he loves them, in one sense Krishna in Vrindavan has no position he is simply an ordinary boy but that of course he is not an ordinary boy, he is an extraordinary boy but still he is just one other Rajivasi extremely lovable Rajivasi but he is a Rajivasi, so that no position is what is taken away from him and that's a loss for him the nature of the world is yesterday I explained about how Yasmat, Priya, Priya Viyog, Sanyog Janma that what we want the likeable is taken away from us and the unlikable is thrust on us this happens quite often in the world also that people who want some positions they don't get any position and people who don't want any position often the position is thrust on them so in a sense nobody is happy so for Krishna it was a material change he was just happily living in Vrindavan and because he was taken away from all those whom he loved it was extremely disorienting distressing even devastating but all of them they did that and how were they able to do it? by focussing on these two other things connection and contribution tyaktva sudhas tejya sure ipsita rajya lakshmim dharmishta arya vachasayad agadharanyam maya mrugam daitya ipsita manvadhavad vande mahapurushate charanaravindam so it's described over here this is a verse in the 11th canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam which Vishwanathji described this refers to three avatars of the lord Krishna to Ram and to Chaitanya Mahapurush all three so but the key point I am not going to the whole verse but the key point over here is dharmishta arya vachasayad that because this great person Mahapurush was very duty bound he wanted to obey the word of a worshipable elder arya vachasayad agadharanyam and he went into the forest so for Ram it was the opportunity to honour the word of his father in fact when Bharat goes to the forest and Bharat says he begs Ram come back and take the kingdom I can't take it no I cannot dishonour my father's word he says that is the case I will stay in exile and you go and rule the kingdom and then Ram says he doesn't take the role of I am god he takes the role of human being he says that we all have to undergo our own karma if people started arbitrarily exchanging their karma the universal order would collapse so he refuses that for him at one level it is honouring the word of his father but it is not just that he finds something important to do over there what is that to destroy to rid the world of the demons those who move at night the demons he frees the world from the Rakshasas so there is a contribution and for him it is because Lakshman is always there, Sita is always there that connection is there and in fact the Ramayana describes especially when Ram and Sita are in Chitrakoot Chitrakoot Adriniketan Rama when they are residing over there those are the among the happiest times for them because Ram and Sita they they are not distracted by all their royal responsibilities and the royal roles they just are together in the forest and although they don't have much they have each other and they have Lakshman, Lakshman has them and they are happy in that so for us and of course when the demons start terrorising Ram starts having that purpose of killing the demons so for all of us we can't control what will happen to the possessions and positions we have sometimes they may go away but if we have a sense of purpose basically if we take up some responsibility in our life generally purpose and meaning in life are proportional to the responsibility that we take now responsibility means ok we can just look at ourselves ok this is the abilities I have these are the resources I have what can I do with this how can I serve Krishna how can I make a contribution how can I do something constructive so Ram doesn't have a whole army with him but he has his own archery skills Ram Shastrabhutamaham Ram, Krishna says that among the weapon wielders I am Ram so he takes up that responsibility and thus for them even the state of deprivation there is still satisfaction because they are all connected with each other Ram, Lakshman, Sita and they have, they are making contribution, they are serving the sages by freeing the forest from the demons who are terrorising the sages similarly for the Pandavas when they are in the forest at that time Yudhishthira sees that as an opportunity to increase his spiritual knowledge of course at a practical level Yudhishthira also learns gambling why? because he knows not because he wants to play gambling again I will not play on my own again but he knows Yudhishthira, Duryodhana is devious and Duryodhana challenges him for another gambling match then he doesn't want to be tricked so he learns and he rectifies that Bhima, Bhima is just in today's world he is pumping iron he is waiting when will he get opportunity to vent his anger at the Kauravas, he is practising through it all Arjuna does austerities goes to the heavens, gets celestial weapons and although that loss of positions and positions it grates on them, it hurts them but they don't just wallow in that hurt they take on a purpose and that's because they are all together although all five brothers are there when Arjuna goes to the heavens all the Pandavas feel so lonely how will you how will we live without you Vibhrapati is the closest to Arjuna because it is Arjuna who has won her in the Swayamvar so she feels very bereaved and all the other Pandavas are conscious and that's why when Vibhrapati expresses a desire, you know such a beautiful lotus flower thousand petal lotus flower can we get more of this then Bhima actually goes up the Himalayas to the Gandharva, to the higher lokas and there he fights with the Yakshas and he gets it for her, so although they have nothing they have each other and Yudhishthir he is like a father figure over there and generally for somebody who is older to apologise to somebody who is junior it's very difficult but Yudhishthir does that Yudhishthir admits to Vibhrapati and he says at that time I got carried away but then he also is philosophical about it and there is a whole chapter in the Mahabharata called Yudhishthir's moral instructions, so although there is some anger towards Yudhishthir for what happened but none of the Pandavas hold it against him because they know that he didn't intend to gamble everything away, he was compelled to gamble and although Vibhrapati is the most hurt, even she does not hold it against Yudhishthir so when we go through difficulties it might be because of my mistake or your mistake but the biggest mistake is if we let that difficulty rip us apart if we are together then we can go through lot of difficulties without that much difficulty but if we let difficulties pull us apart then it's even more difficult now for Krishna out of Vrindavan for him he has Balaram and Balaram is almost every time with him and of course Krishna develops connections with the Pandavas and Jiyu Goswami explains that among the Pandavas who is the most dear to Krishna Arjuna and why is that it is because there is a in Vrindavan a Gopa named Arjuna there is no Gopas named Yudhishthir or Nakula or Sahadeva this Gopa this name reminds Krishna of Vrindavan and therefore Arjuna of course that is one explanation Arjuna himself has great devotion that other explanation is also there but Krishna develops connections and also Krishna is focused on contribution I want to free the world from the demoniac influences Jayati Janani Vaso Devaki Janmavado in that beautiful verse the whole of Krishna Jaya is described and Swair Dorbhir Asyan Dharma by his own arms and by the arms of others he removes Dharma from the world so for all of us this is the key not so much what the world gives to us or what the world takes away from us but what we bring to the world connections other person might not connect with us but we can try to connect and we can always try to contribute we have this attitude ultimately we have social connection and social contribution and we have a spiritual connection and we have a spiritual contribution now of course if we have positions and positions maybe we can contribute better maybe we can connect also better but our contribution and connection doesn't have to depend on these these are aids they are not essentials and to the extent we have them to the extent we don't have them we continue doing what we can with what we have so surrender has many different meanings I will conclude with one meaning of surrender that is surrender means to do what we can with what we have now surrender means to do what we can if I were a better speaker if I were a better singer if I were a better manager if I were a more people's person I could do so much more service maybe it is true, maybe it isn't surrender means to do what we can with what we have this is what I have these are the positions I have let me do what I can and when do we do it? now what can I do right now? why now? because the mind is a perpetual procrastinator what I am meant to do today the mind will postpone to tomorrow and then day after tomorrow and then one week and then one month and one year and then one decade and then one lifetime and many lifetimes like that so now even if it is a small thing I can do for Krishna let me do that so often we may feel my job is so demanding my family is responsible for so many I don't have time to serve Krishna what can we do in the situation we are in we start with that then that much connection Krishna will be able to establish that much contribution we are able to do and that takes us ahead in our life and gradually Krishna can change our situations and we can do more so if you look at Srila Prabhupada's example he had no possessions and no positions when he went from India to America he carried 40 rupees with him and it is significant that actually I tried to find out when did Prabhupada spend those 40 rupees actually in 1965 he came to America and in 1968 he went back to India and from the airport he took a rickshaw to go to Uttaradanga Junction and for that rickshaw he paid those 40 rupees so Prabhupada literally went with nothing to America and he did not have any position that he is the head of an institution or anything like that but in his heart he had the connection with Krishna he had the connection with the spiritual master and he had the desire to make a contribution one time Prabhupada just in a conversation he was saying that many of my god brothers went to London why did I go to New York there are various reasons after the Second World War, before the Second World War London was the centre of the world in many ways so at that time they said the British Empire is the place where the sun never sets Prabhupada said when he was in London the sun never rises here so after the Second World War America had become much more powerful so coming to New York was much more strategically valuable but Prabhupada gave a disarmingly sweet answer Prabhupada said my god brothers tried in London and they failed I thought if I am going to fail let me try at some other place at least so that was Prabhupada's attitude he just had that connection with Krishna in his heart and he wanted to make a contribution let me try even Prabhupada writes in Bhagavad Gita introduction if one soul becomes devoted to Krishna we will consider this Krishna conscious movement to be successful so Prabhupada always had that desire let me make a contribution and to make a contribution we need positions but most important thing is a sense of responsibility that I want to do something for Krishna actually if you don't have that sense of responsibility then having positions is not of much use there is a whole other seminar I have but I just mentioned that point over here money is a very difficult resource to earn and the whole world struggles to earn money but actually most people don't realise that money is also a very difficult resource to use wisely if somebody is immature and they have money they can destroy themselves by it so often if you know I don't have enough money I don't have enough resources that may be true but actually even if we have them to have the maturity to use them it is not easy to have so poverty is caused not so much by the lack of money as by the lack of the maturity to use money properly somebody is immature they may get money and they may hurt themselves and they may lose all the money so yes positions and positions can be taken away Prabhupada had none of those but Prabhupada had took the responsibility to make a contribution and by that Krishna empowered him and Krishna provided so many positions and so many positions Prabhupada used the principle of Rjupa Goswami somehow or other fix the mind on Krishna somehow or other he wanted to attract people to Krishna so he said when he was preaching to businessmen in India he said that doing business for Krishna is very good he says I went with 40 rupees and now we have temples worth 40 crore rupees so now we say is this Karmakand Prabhupada is telling that you do business with Krishna or whatever Prabhupada is basically what is he doing from where you are just connect with Krishna so Prabhupada is making it accessible for them but Krishna provided remarkably but the important thing is even when that was not there Prabhupada's surrender was surrender means to do what we can with what we have now so Prabhupada just had an opportunity enough money to go to America just one contact over there Prabhupada took that one step and then some other opening came up some other opening came up some openings they worked some openings just closed then Prabhupada took some other path but if this principle we learn then we may go through many difficulties in our life but if we focus on connections and contributions we don't let ourselves become so bitter that we chase the people who care for us away from us and we don't feel sorry for ourselves because of things have gone wrong but what can I do what contribution can I make the more we get out of ourselves the more we will find that life still has meaning life still has value that we still can do something no matter how many bad things have happened to us and thus we can move forward in our lives so for us the connection with Krishna and the contribution for Krishna is something which we can always do no matter what happens in the world the world cannot take our connection with Krishna away specific forms of connecting with Krishna will be taken away we might be sick and we may not be able to come to the temple but we can remember Krishna we can hear about Krishna and contribution for Krishna contribution doesn't necessarily have to be financial we can talk about Krishna with others we can connect others with Krishna these two are something which are always with us and if we cherish these two then no matter what life sends our way we will be able to go through those storms not just grow not only go through those storms but we will also grow through those storms grow toward Krishna so I will summarise I spoke today on the principle of dealing with distress by comparing the exiles of the Ramayana, the Mahabharata and the Bhagavatam so the Ramayana exile was because of no fault of Ram exile is just one punishment below execution reserved for the worst of criminals you lose everything except your life and Ram had no fault for which he did it but still he was sent away without anything at all the only thing he had was his brother and his consort now for the Pandavas it was a mistake I talked about how it is Yudhishthira's mistake we can see at a transcendental level at ethical level we can draw some lessons how Prabhupada views Krishna, Arjuna in the first and second chapter of the Bhagavad Gita differently so if you want to learn it was a mistake on Yudhishthira's side but Yudhishthira also had mitigating circumstances he was constrained to fight against his will and then there was a whole scheme to defraud him of everything and again when the Pandavas went to the forest they were left with nothing they were the key emperors of the world and for Krishna although he was in a forest in a pastoral community and he went to the kingdom of Mathura but that was like a forest, it was like exile for him because he loved the Brajwasis he was just a 10 year old boy when he was sent away from his parents, from the cows from everything that he loved and cherished and it was extremely painful nobody understood him and in fact everybody wanted him to forget Vrindavan and still Krishna survived that then we talk about how did what is the common denominator that we often, what we live with is possessions and positions what we live for is connections and contributions so the world can take away our positions and that's what happened to all these great characters but they had each other some came closer to each other connections were deepened and the Pandavas among everyone Pandavas had probably the greatest reason for dissension because Yudhishthira had committed a mistake but they didn't blame him they all came together and then contribution, what can we do in this situation so Krishna took up the mission of ridding the world of the demons Ram did that, in Krishna's case the demons were the king, the rulers of the world whereas in Ram's case they were in the jungles, they were terrorising the sages and the Pandavas also took up the responsibility of equipping themselves for the future inevitable conflict that was going to come so that way that purpose kept them safe that purpose kept them focused and ultimately it helped them to overcome the adversity talk about Shalaprapa's example he had no possessions and no positions but he had that connection with Krishna in his heart and he had that desire to make a contribution for making a contribution what we need more than possessions and positions is a sense of responsibility willingly taking up responsibility if we do that surrender means to do what we can with what we have now so life can take away our possessions and positions but our connection with Krishna and our contribution for Krishna is something which we can always do and if we keep doing this then we will always be on the progressive path of life growing toward Krishna no matter what is going toward us or going away from us thank you very much Hare Krishna I was looking west to go to a different destination and midway there at the same time black and I felt so nourished and encouraged by the word that he said I was feeling very lost and unsure what it is that Krishna wants me to do right now because my father who raised us to serve the lord had one request for me and due to the circumstances I haven't been able to honour that request and I remembered the instruction I gave him to heart and no matter what came or what happened he fulfilled the desire of his birthday and that understanding has given me strength and your words today have given me courage and let's do what I can today and keep praying and chanting and making an association of the vows throughout it all Krishna will see me through this so thank you so so much all of you thank you for sharing that and it's a super soul experience you had that that you somehow mysteriously came here and through me Krishna spoke something which was a help to you one important point I would like to say that sometimes even if we want to do something situations may make it difficult for us to do it Giriraj Maharaj writes this in his book watering the seed he had written one article in BTG and Prabhupada liked it very much Prabhupada said you should write and then he wanted to write but at that time the devotees were organising a big festival for Prabhupada in Mumbai and Shamsundar Prabhu was the leader he said you can write anytime now is the time you should go and meet big people we can develop contacts we can get some funds get lot of people to come for the programmes and then he said yes it makes sense but next time he met Prabhupada Prabhupada said so are you writing he said no Prabhupada was disappointed and then why not and he explained to Prabhupada Prabhupada then he said Prabhupada said the spiritual master's instruction may be deferred but it should never be rejected so he said that I my spiritual master wanted me to preach in the western world I deferred it for 40 years but I never rejected it so the very fact that you are on a day that is a happy day instead of just enjoying you are thinking of that particular desire of your mother and thinking of how you could fulfil that that indicates that you have not rejected it you just deferred it because of whatever situations and sometimes there is a sometimes the right time has to come for doing things so keep doing what you can and Krishna will show the way all the best Hare Krishna I have two points one is clarification do whatever you have to start with that but I think at the same time at the same time is that a transcendental way to tell me to stop laughter laughter you know actually Saturday when the arctic starts it is just laughter so Anantini Jaya Jaya cough so my clarification was that you should select and do whatever you can but at the same time should not we also start with all the aspects of service or whatever we are doing I just want to make sure that at the same time try to improve yeah so we should do with whatever we can at the same time we should also try to improve isn't it yes definitely there is a devotee naturally wants to do better and better things for Krishna see I am singing maybe if I am speaking I want to learn more how I can do it better that is true at the same time what is desired for Krishna shouldn't be desired more than Krishna what is desired for Krishna maybe I want money for Krishna I want I want a programme that lot of people come for my programme and I may want all this for Krishna but what is desired for Krishna shouldn't be desired more than Krishna that means I get so obsessed with it oh why is this not happening so if we are doing a programme nobody is coming for the programme of course we should be concerned maybe I am not presenting properly maybe I am not doing proper follow up maybe I am not doing proper publicity so we should definitely work on those things to improve them but we shouldn't get so obsessed with them that we start thinking that ok unless this works right works out right I won't do this our desire for Krishna shouldn't diminish because we don't have the resources that we desire for serving Krishna so certainly we need to improve improvement shouldn't become such an obsession that it distracts us from the connection with Krishna the connection with Krishna is there and while trying to connect with Krishna we also keep doing as well as we can and we try to improve definitely you were talking about yesterday that you know we take the process we say that ok you are doing chanting improve your chanting improve yourself the standard becomes so high it's just like one level of the game you clear and then you are challenging and being a perfect devotee seems like it's not possible so it looks like you are not becoming a devotee if you are not a devotee and chant once the origin of God you can glorify this better than becoming a devotee so how do you think that devotees it looks like the target is more of the outside ok ok ok so if somebody is not a devotee and they chant one name that can free them from their sins but if you become a devotee and you chant then you have to worry about offences so it seems that the rules of the game become tougher when you become devotees so maybe we shouldn't become devotees stay outside not exactly like that it is see more than the rules we need to look at the principle the principle is you want to develop a personal relationship with Krishna and bhakti essentially is about a relationship with Krishna now say if a teacher let's take a relationship say a parent and a child or a teacher and a student now if somebody is not a student but a teacher sees them learning something you know just taking up a slate and writing something oh good you are doing this it means very good at least you are trying to study and even a small scribble few letters right that's also appreciated at least you are studying but if somebody takes admission in the school and then you want to study then the teacher takes greater responsibility there is greater accountability yes now what you did there was good but here there is so much more to do so the whole idea is that devotion is a progression and just as in the first level the exam will be easier the 10th level the exam may be tougher will be tougher at the PhD level the exam will be even tougher but if you only look at the exam in isolation you may feel that staying out of the school is better I want to study and give all these exams but we are also gaining more education we are learning more and more similarly instead of just looking at the rules we focus on the connection with Krishna and the rules whatever they are they are meant to help us connect with Krishna as devotees we don't want to use Krishna as as sin removing machine I have committed some sins I connect with Krishna sometimes we offer bhoga to the deities we don't want to treat the deities as a bhoga to prasad converting machine the deities are persons they are our beloved lords they are worshipping lords and we want to serve them as well as we can so if we consider this point that there is a connection with Krishna and it's like if we know somebody very well we are very deeply connected with someone say some people whom we are not connected with you yell at them also and they don't listen to you and somebody is very closely connected you might just make a little gesture with the eyes and they understand this is not the way to do that so you could say there is greater restriction but it's also greater connection in general in any relationship every bond brings a boundary every bond will bring a boundary how they interact with many different men and women that will vary if they get married then there is a bond with one person but there also brings a boundary of how you deal with other people so similarly when there is a bond with Krishna there also brings a boundary now if we don't focus on the bond then the boundary seems very prohibitive actually Prabhupada told one of his senior sanyasi disciples who was doing college outreach he said the worst thing you can do when presenting Krishna to college students is present it as a set of rules nobody wants to follow rules present it as a philosophy a philosophy that reveals the root to growth in life and once you see the root then automatically you will take the root so the rules are like routes which we can take to grow to ultimately go towards Krishna but for all of us there is a mist which doesn't show us that this rule, this is the route why can't I go here, why can't I go here why can't I go there but our education is meant to remove the mist so that we can see the route now if I see that this is the road and here there is a big valley where I am going to crash and here there is a thicket of forest then I won't want to go here or here I just want to go here the same way if we focus more on the principle of connecting with Krishna then the idea is yes there are offence in the holy name but from the perspective of connection with Krishna see Krishna is happy that anybody chants the name also at least they are connecting at that level but if somebody wants to develop a personal relationship with Krishna then naturally that means they invest their consciousness so say if in a family one son has gone away from home and for years and years he has been away and then he just makes one phone call and the parents are so happy, oh at least they know they are alive, they are doing well they are remembering us, they are calling us but now if there is a son or a daughter in the family who is living there she makes one phone call, the parents may not be that happy but that doesn't mean the parents don't value him or her it is that the relationship is deeper then after the phone call not just initial, how are you, there are so many other things to talk about so if we see it as a progression a progression not simply in terms of increasingly smaller boundaries but a progression in terms of increasingly deeper connection then if it happens that some rules are inhibiting a connection because each one of us is an individual and for some people some rules might not work to develop the connection then they will adjust appropriately so if we just see rules only as rules then they will feel prohibitive, see the boundary becomes acceptable as long as the bond remains valuable as soon as we feel the bond I don't value this bond then why the boundary so our vision needs to be on the bond not on the boundary you need to be aware of the boundary but focus on the bond and to the extent we study the philosophy associate with devotees we start valuing that connection with Krishna and then the boundary becomes not a restriction but a boundary becomes simply a way also a way by which we show our devotion yes so is it tougher to be a devotee and practise bhakti than to be not a devotee and practise bhakti yes, definitely it's two at one level but then the connection with Krishna as a devotee is much deeper and the fulfilment of that connection is also much deeper does that answer your question? I think you were just you know connection on my end Ajamil literally write much better than what people do even in unknowingly chanting the name of Krishna you know said that perfected his life so how do you take that? so Ajamil just unknowingly chanted and perfected whereas Bharat Maharaj had to spend three lifetimes so how do you understand this? different stories in scripture are meant to teach different lessons and generally whenever scripture is teaching any lesson it usually shows extremes because what happens if something is routine our mind doesn't remember it if you look back what all happened yesterday now if somebody made a video of everything that we did from the morning to evening from the time we wake up to the moment we slept and they told us now the next day you watch this video all day we will get bored within 5-10 minutes so that which is ordinary we don't remember that it is only extraordinary maybe if we had some unusual interaction with someone or some unusual incident happened the unusual is what stands out in the memory so similarly there is the routine not that routine in the sense of boring but routine in the sense of the ordinary process of bhakti which most of us could say not routine but the standard process of bhakti standard process of bhakti gives the standard results and that is what we all are meant to practise but the standard doesn't stand out in the memory that's why scripture gives extremes so extremes of the positive when bhakti's potency is to be highlighted then there is an extreme positive example of say a German just one chanting of the name of Vishnu he is Garbhadi Vasudhukam he is saved from that now it is significant over here he is not liberated at that time he has to again practise bhakti he gets a second chance so from that unconscious practise of bhakti he learns to he realises or unconscious chanting of the holy name he realises and chants conscientiously so for the purpose of illustrating the potency of the holy name this pastime is told now the fifth canto pastime is told for entirely different purpose it is to show how a small deviation on the spiritual path can also be dangerous so for that purpose for this positive purpose extreme positive example for a negative purpose there is an extreme negative example now for most of our lives it is the standard process so it will not be that negative and may not be that positive also so it is not that is the spiritual life as dangerous as Bharat Maharaj now we must say how many of us first of all are going to renounce the world and go to the forest and then if somebody does that how many of us are going to get attached to a deer and give up the practise of bhakti it's a very unlikely series of events but it demonstrates a principle so we shouldn't take these extreme examples as standards the standard process of bhakti is dramatic in its fruit but in its course it might not be that dramatic and it is potent so we learn the lesson that there is danger on the spiritual path from Bharat Maharaj but we don't live in paranoia that thinking that oh this is one mistake and I will be penalised for that in such a terrible way it's not like that thank you any other questions any question so actually on similar lines as to your question when somebody who is not a devotee say that you chant the name of it will automatically calm the mind whereas when you become a devotee then you want to chant the name of it the instruction that you give to calm down your mind can be very attentive in chanting the holy name so the calmness and the attentiveness before and after seems to be increasing and succeeding is there anything you want to say to that ok good question so initially we say that you chant your mind will become calm but then when somebody becomes a serious devotee you have to calm your mind and concentrate when you are chanting so this is a symbiotic process that does chanting lead to a control mind or does control mind lead to chanting it's both if we are in the lower modes Rajas and Tamas if we are able to chant at that time sometimes we are not able to connect at all but if we can connect we can get relief because chanting raises us to a higher level but when we start practising chanting as a discipline then we are chanting a particular quantity on a daily basis and at that time after sometime the mind just turns off and the mind doesn't connect at that time so it's like when we are doing Japa our tongue is chanting our mind is wandering and the soul is thinking which of the two to pay attention to the chanting tongue or the wandering mind and the wandering mind seems to be more interesting so most of the time we go over there so because of that chanting does appear to some extent difficult it's not that the difficulty level is increasing or it's not that the potency is decreasing it's just that the commitment that we are asking from ourselves is more we are committing for a particular significant amount of time to chant and that endeavour itself is purifying even if the endeavour doesn't seem to be satisfying at that time because we are endeavouring to control the mind endeavouring to focus so it's a lever if I have to lift maybe 50 kg weight it will be difficult for me but if I have a lever and I press on the lever and then if I exert the same energy lifting up the 50 kg weight will be much easier but still if I have to lift 50 kg even with a lever it is that I have to apply strength so for us the process of chanting is like that lever controlling the mind is itself difficult purifying the mind without Krishna is almost impossible but even with Krishna we have to put an endeavour just because I have a lever doesn't mean that the object that I have to lift has become weightless it still has weight and I have to put effort but overall the amount of effort I put in that I require to put in and the result I will get by that there is multiple results multiple amount of result that will come and it does require effort so just because the process is easier than other processes we say bhakti yoga is easier than other yogas just because the process is easier than other processes doesn't mean that the process is easy it is easier than others but that doesn't mean it is easy so it's like that there is effort required in it but as you keep practising then initially initially like poison eventually like nectar but if you keep practising basically as you keep practising we strive to connect as much as we can the connection purifies us more and more and in the greater the purification then the stronger is the connection and the greater the connection the greater is the absorption in Krishna and in the greater is the satisfaction through that so for us if we connect with Krishna as much as we can now that connection gradually will improve and that's why what initially tastes like poison and eventually like nectar Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says eventually it will become Poornamrutaswara it will become like complete nectar yes ok ok that way since we do not know where the soul was yet before the scripture is made what is it we are going to do then it is not very impossible for that soul to move on to the perfected state if he was also something close to that state since the scriptures have not really mentioned what the state was in the stream before so that's that ok that's an interesting point so could Ajamila also have been very advanced already and then from there he continued despite the interruption like like Birla Mangal Thakur yes it's a good example it's a good possibility to explore if you see there is a list of virtues of Ajamila described initially in the Bhagavatam and among those virtues they are all largely brahminical virtues he has some devotion but it's not described that he is a he is a pure devotee or even near a pure devotee if you look at the context of the story the context is that if somebody commits wrong doings how can they be delivered.

Parikshit Maharaj has heard from Shubhadeva Swami about the various hells and the torments over there and actually his compassion is awakened so we say that there are two trajectories for people there is a trajectory of punya and there is a trajectory of papa and punya also people do some puja some bhakti but it's one part it's not the essence so largely the way the Bhagavatam tells about Ajamila he was on the path of punya bhakti was there but bhakti was not the centre of what he was doing and that's why it is said that when he saw that provocative sight it doesn't say that he called out the names of the lord he tried to remember the Vedic mantras he tried to remember the Vedic teachings about proper conduct but the arrow of cupid had pierced too deep into his heart so it is like he was on the trajectory of punya but from that trajectory it was deviated and he went on the trajectory of papa but as he was going down towards the terrible destination there was like the intercession of bhakti and bhakti took him higher than where he far higher than where he was earlier and where ultimately he attained so there is at one level we can say that every character in the lord's pastimes or the scriptural stories is special at the same time we also have to see what is the principle being taught over there if we say that Ajamila is already a very great soul great spiritually evolved soul already very devoted then the principle of demonstrating the potency of the holy name is not fulfilled over there like if somebody says that say all the people who were present at Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's times 500 years ago all of them were exalted if all of them are exalted then what is the point of calling Chaitanya Mahaprabhu as patit pavan everybody around him was already pavan if everybody was pure then whom is he purifying certainly some of his associates were definitely very pure now we can say all of the people who were present over there were fortunate not necessarily exalted they are fortunate that they happened to be there at the time and they might have done something also but the principle of patit pavan is not the deliverer of the fallen there is no point in glorifying somebody as deliverer of the fallen if the person is not actually fallen isn't it so if you want to the whole thrust of the Ajamila pastime is how powerful is the holy name to purify even those who have gone way way off track if that person is already pure then where is the potency of the holy name it is just as a reminder not a purifier so much but the holy name is demonstrated as a purifier or at least glorified as the great purifier and that is the whole thrust of the pastime sometimes we see our limitations very clearly and make the fear responsibility well or let others do everything better so how to overcome that fear and hesitation responsibility so we sometimes see our limitations and we can see that others can do this better so that's why we may hesitate to take up responsibility yes that's true in general if we consider three modes goodness, passion, ignorance in ignorance we generally underestimate our capacity oh life is so terrible I am so powerless I can't do anything in rajas in the mode of passion we overestimate our capacity what is that anybody who asks us can you do this yes yes yes yes just say yes I can do everything and then you start hey I can't do all this what do I do now so so in ignorance we think nothing is in my control in passion we think everything is in my control in goodness we realise more come this is my capacity this is beyond my capacity we perceive ourselves better so we need to as much as possible especially when we are deciding what services to take up try to do that reflection while we are in the mode of goodness maybe pray to Krishna do something which calms us down connects us stabilises us and then reflect what we can do then we can also reflect back and see what all our experiences have been what all we can do then we can get a realistic understanding of our capacity having said that we try to be in goodness still it is always possible that there are other people who do things better than we do so here we have to understand the purpose of service the purpose of service is not just to meet a target actually the purpose of the service is to meet Krishna through the commitment that is required for meeting the target it is to meet Krishna through the commitment required for meeting the target ultimately whatever is to be done Krishna can do it himself if you see in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna shows Arjuna that the enemies are already killed that except for you they are all going to die so sometimes we say we just do the endeavour and we offer the results to Krishna but Krishna reveals in the Bhagavad Gita that the results are already there so then what are we doing Krishna wants us to offer our consciousness and our heart to him through the endeavour that we do to get the results and of course in the case of Arjuna Krishna wanted Krishna gave the credit to Arjuna also so our purpose in doing service is to connect with Krishna so there is a Maharashtrian poet he says that a swan may walk very gracefully an eagle may fly very high other birds may not be able to walk or fly like that it is just because other birds can't walk that gracefully or fly that high doesn't mean that they shouldn't walk or fly they can walk according to their capacity similarly there are others who can do things much better than what we are doing but that is no reason for us to not do things we do according to our capacity and we try to please Krishna by doing what we are doing and if we are doing our best then Krishna is pleased by that now there is of course a third consideration so the first point I made was that we try to in goodness estimate our capacities second is that we focus not so much on what we are offering to Krishna but whether we are offering ourselves to Krishna that is the purpose the third is also that sometimes certain roles certain responsibilities may require certain abilities and if we don't have those abilities then we may have to carefully consider whether accepting that responsibility is a service or not sometimes it may be that there are many other devotees but nobody else is coming up to take up that responsibility then one devotee sent me a passage from book and writing he said if you want to write one standard advice is read books written by authors who are good that this is how good writing is to be done but this book had a counterintuitive advice it says read books that are terribly written also he says why? because that will put fire in your heart if something like this can be published then I can also be published so similarly sometimes it is not that we can do something very well but what was going on is so bad that I can do it better than that so yes we take up response and if you consider that way there are so many people for whom there is no Krishna consciousness available and there are so many important things that are not being done so if it is if you are considering oh if I could do it at 80% but I can only do it at 60% but look from the perspective of 0% 60% is still great so many services to be able to do them we need to put them in the right framework so yes if there were if we are supposed to give a class there are so many other devotees who can give better classes than us but if there is no one if there is a particular place where we want to start a programme or if we are in a programme we are talking with someone we may feel what if I make a mistake and I say something wrong but if there is somebody nobody is talking with them it is better that they talk with one devotee one of the devotees is not perfect in the talking but at least they get some connection with Krishna so for us we need to see that if we have limitations then we need not compete for roles which require very specific qualification and abilities but there are so many things which are just not being done at all then start doing them there are what is that saying that there is no waiting period for those who are ready to take the stairs if you want to take the lift you have to wait, if the lift is full you have to go and lift will come back but if you are ready to take the stairs there is no waiting period so there are certain services which are treasured which are glamorised say services like maybe giving classes, doing puja doing aarti, especially doing the aarti or abhishek on special days for that there will be lot of competition and then there might be concern of who is more senior, who is more dedicated whatever many concerns may come in but there are many other services which can be done incrementally in small small steps it is like going up the stairs and there is no competition for that so we find out the service which we can do and just start doing that and Krishna can empower us dramatically it's not that Krishna has to empower us in terms of each one of us developing extraordinary abilities but even if he doesn't empower us we will get connected with Krishna so and the last point I will make is that if you feel I can't do anything then you can ask a counterintuitive question that okay I have no talents I have no abilities I can't do anything well can I make things worse you know no matter how much abilities we lack we all have the ability to make things worse so that means if we can make things worse that means we are not as abilityless or powerless as we think if we can make things worse then we can make them better so we are never as powerless as we think so we will stop here so thank you very much Srila Prabhupada ki Gaur Bhakta Vendaki Jai Gaur Premanand.