Presenting scripture for dummies

[Bhagavatam class at ISKCON, Naperville, USA]

Video:

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna. So, today I will talk about the theme of Scripture for Dummies.
So, about 25-30 years ago, first time I read this title, Tamil language title, for dummies. So, maybe like laptops for dummies or something like that. So, first time I read it, I found it so offensive.
Who will go to identify themselves as dummies? Isn’t it? I am not a dummy. But somehow the branding has become such a way that there is nothing derogatory associated with the word dummies. It’s just that, okay, I am not I am not text savvy.
So, something is made simple for me. So, words have connotations. In language there are two things.
Denotations and connotations. Denotation is what the word literally means. It’s a dictionary definition.
And connotation is how the word is used contextually. So, some words have positive connotations. Some words have negative connotations.
And good dictionary is, don’t just use the denotation, the meaning, but also the connotations. So, in today’s world if we hear, say for example somebody is called as less intelligent. Either some Vaishyas or Sushudras or women are less intelligent.
We might find it very objectionable. How dare you even call them less intelligent? So, that less intelligent is not in a derogatory or a wrong judgemental sense. It is the same sense in which somebody might say this is okay, writing for dummies.
Or philosophy for dummies. Now, when the word is used over there, it is in the sense that this is made simpler. This is made simpler and more accessible.
And the idea is not so much to make a judgement about the level of the people as a statement about the accessibility of the knowledge. So, the thrust is different. When I first read the word computer for dummies, I am not a dummy.
So, I took it as a personal statement. But the point is the way this word is used nowadays is not a statement about the level of the reader. It is more about a statement about the level of the knowledge.
So, the knowledge is become a positive thing. Recently somebody asked me that I should write a Bhagavad Gita for dummies. So, it seems that the name dummies, at least for dummies, has become like a copyright.
So, we cannot publish a Bhagavad Gita for dummies. We have to go to the dummies publishing house. And then, so they have a bible for dummies.
You should have a Bhagavad Gita for dummies also. So, they have a particular format in which they want books to be written. We are exploring that.
So, it’s not a statement about the level of, it’s not a derogatory statement about the level of the readers. In fact, it’s become like a positive statement, a laudatory statement about the accessibility of the knowledge. So, this principle of customisation of knowledge according to the level of people is universal.
And whenever in scripture certain statements are made which can seem judgemental, which can seem derogatory, you have to always look at the context. The context itself is not judgemental or derogatory. If you consider the verse which Shatrughapada quotes over here, … … … … … So, this is 9.32 in the Bhagavad Gita where she is saying that if those who take shelter of me, even if they be lowborn, be sure, women, Vaishyas, Shudras, even they can attain the supreme destination.
So, what is being said over here? How can the idea today that somebody is lowborn, … that itself is considered controversial. Most people have the idea, today there is a lot of emphasis on social engineering. Although Communism as a form of government has been a disastrous failure wherever it has been tried.
Since Communism as an ideology has incredibly wide influence in the world. And the idea of Communism is that people are always good, systems are always bad. And, if you just break down the existing systems, then people’s goodwill will come up.
So, in Communism, the idea was that the capitalists are hoarding all the money and that’s why all the labourers are suffering. Now, that has happened, but that’s not always the case. There are IQ levels which are different, there are social skills that are different, and some people might just be better than others.
If you want to cook food, and if we say, let’s have democracy, that everybody has equal cooking rights. Well, the food is not only equally good, there are levels of competence. It’s best that those who are the best at cooking, they take charge and they guide others.
So, if there’s a system for cooking, then it’s not necessarily the system is bad. It could be the system is bad, but not always. But communism’s idea is that any kind of system which has hierarchy, that is bad.
And in today’s world, that whole system has become very prominent, that idea that any hierarchy is bad. So, Marx had the idea that not only is the capitalism a system by which the capitalists exploit the workers, it’s a religious system by which the clergy exploit the lady. The family is a system by which the man exploits the woman, and the parents exploit the children.
So, all structures are against that. And when people come from this understanding, and then they read something, you know, let’s introduce it out there. So, and lowborn, what do you mean lowborn? Their idea is people are good, the systems are bad, hierarchies are bad.
Now, yes, we understand that people at their core, at the level of soul, they are good. Everybody is a part of God. But everybody’s soul is also covered by a mind.
And that mind, based on their previous lives, may be in goodness, passion, or ignorance. Sattva, Rajas, or Tamas. And based on how, where it is situated, Sattva, Rajas, or Tamas.
Accordingly, people in their manifest behaviour may have goodness or not have goodness. Just like parents have children. Even two children, even they are twins.
They are not entirely identical. Some children are a little silent. Some children, when they cry, see, they are going to break their whole house down.
Some children, even when they are in the crib, they are looking out, when can I take over the house? So, we do like, when we talk about birth, there are certain characteristics which we all compare to birth. And, so when it is said that some people are lowborn, it is not so much that you are a bad person. It is just that they come from a particular past, and they have a particular kind of mind.
Acknowledging that is not demonising. It is not judging their function in the world. Then, if certain things require certain level of competence, and that competence is not there, then it has to be acknowledged.
So, when it is said here, Alpamey Dasa, at one level, the Bhagavatam later on will use Alpamey Dasa for describing everyone in Kali Yuga. Which is the famous verse which talks about this word, same phrase, Alpamey Dasa. About Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
What is that verse? So, Sumedha Saha is those who have intelligence. Alpamey Dasa is those who lack intelligence. Alpamey Dasa, Krishna is saying, those who worship the Devatas, they are also Alpamey Dasa.
They have less intelligence. So, now, it is not necessary that some Brahmins worship the Devatas. So, the word Alpamey Dasa is used here not in a judgemental sense.
It is used in a sense of what is the level at which people can get best fit into the hierarchy of spiritual elevation, of spiritual progress. And we have to be very careful how we present such things. So, the mood of the scripture is that, you can summarise it in one of the sentences, from your place, at your pace.
I was going to talk about grace, I got grace now. So, the mood of the scripture, if you want to summarise it in one sentence is, from your place, at your pace, I access His grace. So, from your place, wherever you are, your grace is accessible, God’s grace is accessible.
And at your pace. Let us say, for example, different people, they practise spirituality at different, so some people may be very serious, they may pronounce the word, some people may be in the householder way. In the householder way also different people practise at different pace.
So, scripture includes everyone in its own. All people are on my path, Krishna says. That means, the whole Vedic, Dharmic way is such that, whatever level people are at, there is a place for them.
If you can’t practise pure devotional service, practise mixed devotional service. If you can’t practise pure devotional service, then at least practise some level of selflessness. This is Krishna offering a hierarchy in the twelfth chapter, where 12.8 to 12.12, He is giving lower and lower levels at which you can connect with one after another after another.
The mood is that, if somebody is at that level, they can’t come up. Then, okay, you can come up from there. Take this step forward.
We can consider scripture similar to a temple. Some traditional temples, they are high up on mountains. Even now, we go to Tirupati.
And some people, they say, going to a temple means you have to actually climb up all the way to there. You cannot go by bus and everything. That is a non-tradition.
Climb up. If you want to see the Lord, you have to purify yourself. So, yes, that’s good if somebody has that level of education.
But, if somebody can’t do that, then what to do? Then there are more accessible ways. People can be lifted and carried. People can go by buses.
Now, Prabhupada’s mood was that we should make… Prabhupada once asked, where should our temples be? Outside asked Prabhupada, where should your temples be located? So, Prabhupada replied, where should our hospital be located? He said, where people are the sickest, are the most sick. So, similarly, temples, Prabhupada said, should be located where people are most… where people need spiritual message the most. That means Prabhupada stressed accessibility.
That the temple should be as easily accessible as possible. And that’s why big, big cities, they can have multiple temple groups. Because what happens is people find it difficult to travel.
It’s not that it’s difficult to travel. But to travel for a spiritual purpose is very difficult. Travel to watch a movie or travel to eat some delicacy or travel to play some sports match or something like that.
I was in London at that time. One of my friends had come from India to London. Cricket World Cup final was supposed to be in London for the World Cup.
There’s an India-Pakistan match was supposed to be there. And at that time, there was a fear that it would rain. So, he had purchased a ticket, one ticket for one thousand pounds.
One thousand pounds is how much? It’s more than a lakh actually. It’s more than a lakh. And they had that if one ball is not hit, not a single ball is rolled, then ISIS will refund the money.
But he had bought the tickets in black. So, he would not get a refund also. So, he called me and he said, I don’t believe in God.
But can you pray that God will answer? So, the point is that for worldly purposes, people can travel from one part of the world to another. But when it comes to spiritual purposes, oh, it’s a one-hour drive. It’s too much.
We tend to believe. And this is just human psychology. We can’t deny that.
So, Prabhupada stressed accessibility. Make things as accessible as possible. Now, we just said we don’t want to have our temples on three tops.
Or even if we have a temple, we are accessible steps. So, just as our temple, we make the Lord accessible in the temples. Similarly, we need to make the Lord accessible through the monks.
So, that means it’s our responsibility to make the philosophy accessible. That is what we are saying this week. So, when it is said that this is for less intelligent people, it is not a statement.
For example, the temple is not on the hilltop because it is for less austere people. Well, if you say this is for less austere people, okay, I am less austere. I don’t consider that an insult.
Yeah, I am less austere. You say, it’s a Kadashi. And for less austere people, we have Prasanna.
Well, is that a character assessment? It doesn’t have to be taken that personally. Yeah, okay, my body can’t take Prasanna. This would have been.
So, similarly, the statements such as less intelligent, they are not a character judgement about people’s births. It is indicated that, okay, each of us has a past life history. And by the past life history, we have a certain kind of body and mind.
And that particular kind of body and mind may or may not be suited for a particular kind of work. So, especially in philosophical analysis, it requires a very strong intellectual ability. And not everyone has that.
Bhanu Maharaj translated a Govinda Bhashya, which is a Vedanta commentary of Vande Gita Bhushan. And I edited that book. Even previously, while doing my engineering studies, I have not read a book that was tougher than that book.
It was incredible. Every page I had to read several times. Why? Because Vedanta Sutra is basically what? It is a discussion about the essential conclusion of the Upanishads.
So, if somebody doesn’t know the Upanishads, they can’t even know what is being discussed over there. It is like a discussion for somebody who already knows the Upanishads, and then they mention some words, and they are not in the full verse. It is just like one part of the verse, and everybody knows.
And it is assumed that everybody knows. And then what does this verse mean? It is like, to give a contemporary example, some people are total cricket lovers. They are cricket maniacs.
And they discuss, you know, oh, this catch he took was like that catch in that match. When you just mention that, and not the other people who are also cricket lovers, immediately a movie starts, oh, that catch was taken like this. Now somebody who doesn’t know anything about cricket, say, what are you talking about? And they are so animated and so excited.
And other people just can’t understand anything. So when I first came about five, six years ago to America, I was doing Western college programmes. So the Western auditor told me, he says, don’t use any cricket examples here.
For Western people, cricket reminds them of an insect, not a game. So the Vedanta, the Vedanta Sutra is very difficult to understand, because it presumes a certain level of knowledge. Just like a talk between cricket lovers, it presumes that if two people are discussing, oh, that catch was so much, this catch was like that, and somebody doesn’t know at all.
Oh, what was that catch? Don’t bother us. Don’t bother us. We’ll talk later about it.
But they want to relish it that time, and somebody is a novice, this comes in the way of relishing. The same way, the Upanishads, especially the Upanishadic part of the Vedas and the Vedanta Sutra, these are extremely complex, and they presume a very high level of knowledge. And when that level of knowledge is not there, they become inaccessible.
So when it is described over here, how the Puranas and the Kshasas are written, it shows how it is made more accessible. And the point of it is, it’s not condemnation, but compassion. Not condemnation of your lesson-teacher, but compassion that, okay, even you, this can be made accessible.
And that is the mood even of the verse which I put at 9.32. When Krishna says, maha-vipāta-vyapākṣit-yad-viśopāpa-yodhyaḥ srī-yoga-vaiśyā-satāṁśiva-viraḥ te pihyānti parāṅgatiḥ So he’s saying, even certain people are pāpa-yodhya, even they can attain the supreme destination if they become devoted to it. So the point is not that these people are just intelligent. The point is that even they can attain the supreme destination.
So if you have a book like, say, Laptops for Dummies, even somebody who has never touched an electronic gadget can understand how to operate a laptop, can master the basics of a laptop. But this is not a judgement about, oh, you have never touched a laptop, what kind of technological intellectual you are. That’s not the point.
So when we can do these such things, the statement-less individuals are there in scripture, but scripture was spoken in a particular context, and they had a particular meaning at that time. And today, the meaning is different. And unless we understand the context, and we understand that context, we understand what it meant over there, and we understand today’s context, and then convey that intent today.
Unless we do that, the same statements which were in the village were meant to increase accessibility. They will increase inaccessibility. That means the same thing, oh, this is meant to make the religious scripture accessible to the less intelligent.
You call me less intelligent? How dare you get lost? The same statements meant to increase accessibility can increase inaccessibility if we don’t sensitise people to the context. So it is our responsibility that we be aware of the context and present that chastra accordingly. Our purpose is, of course, that we want to elevate everyone to the level of Krishna.
But even if a person is not ready to rise to the level of Krishna, we should be able to accept them and value them very much. There are many, if we consider Shri Prabhupada, here in America, when he preached, the preaching basically meant moving to the temple. There were people who were in the counterculture, and they all just moved to the temple.
Prabhupada says in one lecture that the devotees of peace had already done sarva-dharmankaritya. They had given up their dharma to their family, to their education, to their career, even their dharma to their hygiene. And Prabhupada says they had already done sarva-dharmankaritya.
I taught them how to do maa-mekam sharanam. How to come to Krishna. How to celebrate Krishna.
And at that time, even if somebody was practising serious bhakti, if they were not living full time in the temple, they were called as fringes. And it was a derogatory term. You are on the fringe.
You are not moving to the temple. You are so weak, you are so uncommitted, so you are fringes. Now practically today our whole movement is fringes.
But the devotees, they are staying in their home. They are very committed. It’s incredible level of commitments are there.
So now that term, if we start using today, well, we will just alienate everyone by that. Especially if you use that term, that derogatory connotation. But Prabhupada was not like a, Prabhupada was a multifaceted resource.
Prabhupada was not one track. For many people, preaching idea is, their idea of preaching is, there is one programme, and download that programme on everyone. As soon as you see a person, programme download starts.
So it’s Prabhupada not like that. And Prabhupada was in India, and at that time, most people who helped him, very few actually became committed followers. We consider the dedicated disciples of Prabhupada, or the leaders of our movement, how many of them are from India, who were introduced in India? Maybe Lokmanya Maharaj, maybe Gaurav Maharaj was there, Radhakumar Maharaj.
But everyone, very few are those who were introduced in India. And if you consider the number of Prabhupada disciples in India, Prabhupada disciple is like a rare species. Not using the word species in a negative sense.
But in the western world, people who preach like Adachi Vav, there are so many Prabhupada disciples. The point is, Prabhupada spent from 1970 onwards, a major part of his year in India. And yet Prabhupada did not have many disciples from India in India.
But Prabhupada made a phenomenal number of followers. And they were not ready to commit themselves to become dedicated. Even full-time, many of them didn’t even become initiated of Jainism, of all four ranks.
But Prabhupada accepted them, Prabhupada valued them, Prabhupada respected them. One of the most prominent helpers for the Juhu temple. He was a disciple of one of the most prominent Mayavadi gurus.
And if you go to his home, it’s like a big picture of the gurus. Prabhupada went to his house many times. Prabhupada did not commit about it.
Prabhupada, now when he was talking, Viraj Maharaj was telling me about him, and he was in his last days, this is what I remember, Viraj Maharaj wanted to meet him, and he said, he was in tears talking about Prabhupada and remembering Prabhupada, what a saintly person he was. So, Prabhupada and Krishna had the potency to take someone back to Godhead just because they loved Prabhupada so much and they did so much for our movement. When Prabhupada was in America in 1968, his visa ran out.
All of us can empathise with this problem, especially if you are a natural being or if you are visiting like I am. So his visa ran out and the devotees just couldn’t renew it. They tried and tried and tried.
And then finally there was one very influential person who was Allen Ginsberg. Now Allen Ginsberg was like an LSD queen. Now he would take LSD and he would take LSD and not only was he a proponent of LSD, he was also, in fact he re-Christianised LSD.
LSD is a chemical name for a drug. He said LSD is actually the ego spiritual discovery. Anybody who takes LSD joins this movement.
So he was an active proponent of that. And not only was he an active proponent, he was also, he was also gay. And whenever he would come to meet Prabhupada, he would come with his partner, his maid.
And Prabhupada never criticised him for it. And he respected Prabhupada so much. He helped Prabhupada in so many different ways.
One of the biggest programmes that Prabhupada had at Ohio State University, several thousand students were there. And Prabhupada said, we have kirtan and Prabhupada said to him, you can talk. He said, no Swami, how can I talk? He said, this is your language.
He said, no, you speak based on your experience of Hare Krishna. He said, no Swami, I can’t speak. And they talked and finally both of them spoke.
He spoke for a few minutes, Prabhupada spoke for a few minutes, they had long meetings. So Prabhupada said, how can I speak? He said, no. He said, you are blessed by Krishna.
Now he was into, you could say he was breaking so many records. And he said, I have recently, I have been given a week, but I still need to meet you. And Prabhupada said, yes, he is Krishna’s messiah.
He is working. Something like that Prabhupada said. So Prabhupada did not condemn him for that.
So the point I’m making is that, Prabhupada accepted the man who gave him. And then devotees went to him and said, you did not accept Prabhupada’s visa. And then he got his lawyers working, and within a few days, Prabhupada got a visa.
And after that, he never had a problem with the visa. So actually, we can even say that, the Krishna is gone, exists, because of Gyanendra’s work. If Prabhupada had not been able to come to America, how would he have established his own? And Prabhupada respected him.
So the point is, Prabhupada accepted and married people wherever they were. And, this is not compromising or being wishy-washy. It is, accepting people where they are.
Of course we encourage them to rise higher, but if they can’t, if they don’t rise higher, we reach down to them. It’s like, there are, one last point, and then, I can answer questions. See, we, open the doors, for some people to come, for people to come to Krishna.
And some people, never walk through the door. Unfortunately, what we do is, when they don’t walk through the door, we just bang the door in their face. You asked if you want any help, you don’t do this.
And they say, you go to him first. I don’t want help, I don’t want to have anything to do with you. But we do know that, different people, work in different ways.
It’s, we may open the doors for some people, and some people, may open the doors for us. Some, we may open the door for them, but they may not walk into the door. But they may have certain contacts, certain influence in society, and they may open certain doors for us.
So many of the influential life members, in India, or in Pittsburgh, in America, they open doors for people. That, he could reach out to more and more people. So, they will, they also need to be accepted.
So that moral acceptance, of everyone where they are at, that is very important, if we want to represent, our traditional property. And that is what Vyasa Dev has done over here, when he made scripture accessible. That is what Srila Prabhupada did, through his books, through his temples, and through his personal conduct.
And that, as the followers of Vyasa Dev and Srila Prabhupada, that is also our responsibility. To make scriptural wisdom, as accessible as possible. So I’ll summarise, what I spoke.
I spoke today, on the topic of, how to make, scripture accessible, to people. Scripture for dummies. That was the, theme of the talk.
So, the word dummies, when we say scripture for dummies, the word, say laptops for dummies, for dummies, is not, a derogatory statement, about the level of people. It is a laudatory statement, about, the accessibility of knowledge. And, so, words have connotations, and denotations, what they mean, and what they signify, beyond their dictionary meaning.
So today, the word less intelligent, is here, to make a start. It can seem very derogatory, how dare you call me less intelligent. And this comes because, the communist ideology, that people are good, hierarchies are bad, that is, very widespread.
And anybody puts a hierarchy, of you are less intelligent, that means you are more intelligent, and you are thinking, I am more intelligent, and you are putting me down, that hierarchy. People reach for a bell, against that. So, because people are very cultural, very sensitive, about these things, we also have to be sensitive.
So when, scripture says, for example, some people are low born, the point is not to condemn them, the point is to recognise, that we all have, a mind, which we have brought, from the past. The soul, at the level of the soul, everybody is equal, everybody is pure, everybody is good. But everybody’s mind, is different.
And, based on the kind of, mind and body we have, we are really suited, or not suited for certain functions. So, hierarchies of dominance, and hierarchies of, exploitation are bad, but hierarchies of competence, are not only good, they are essential. They are looking to be, the best suit should be their head.
So, when scripture says, this is for more intelligent, this is for less intelligent people, then that, is not meant to condemn some people. The Vedanta Sutra, is meant for people, who are very intelligent. That means, they are already, deeply steeped in all the, omniscience.
And, it’s like a discussion, between cricket lovers, about various, various cricket events. So, people who don’t have, that depth of familiarity, just can’t understand anything. So, how do we make it accessible? That’s what, the goal of Vyasadevya, is to make scripture accessible.
And, less intelligent, is not a judgement, about the level of people, it is a statement, about the, level of the, presentation. And, Prabhupada, made the temples, accessible, not on hilltops, in remote places, but, in the heart of the cities. So, just as Prabhupada, made the temples, physically accessible, we also need to make, Prabhupada’s books, intellectually, emotionally, accessible for people.
And, that means, if certain words, had some, had some, objective connotation, in the past, but have negative connotation, today, then we have to navigate, that very carefully, so that people, the thing which was meant to, increase accessibility, in the past, might, increase inaccessibility, if we are not sensitive. When I talk about, how Prabhupada, accepted people, where they were, whether they were, like members in India, they would have been considered, was the fringes, because they were not, in practising bhakti. But, when Prabhupada, accepted them, and valued them, they loved Prabhupada, and Prabhupada, Prabhupada valued them, Prabhupada loved them, and a lot of other, other things were, although he had many, objectionable things, if he just had, if our idea of preaching is, let’s download one programme, in every month, then, we could have, Prabhupada could have, objected to so many things, about him, but Prabhupada, had a reason, that’s why Krishna.
Why? Because he was, inclined towards Krishna, and, some people may never, walk through the doors, we open for them, but, he may open doors for us, to take Krishna, to places where, we would never, ourselves, we would reach Krishna, take Krishna to. So, accepting people, where they are at, and making Krishna consciousness, accessible, to them, where they are, is, the mood of Vyasadev, Shri Prabhupada, and we can pray, that that become, our mood also. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. Any questions, or comments? Hare Krishna. Thank you very much, and sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt, but I was hearing the lecture, and I had this question, for a long time, and I was hoping, you can answer it, you know, I was hoping to ask this, when you were talking.
I work in the, HR field, of organisations. Which field? HR. HR? Yes.
So, now, most of the modern companies, they have something called, core values, when they establish, a company. And when they form, core values, gives a culture, to the whole organisation, and that pre-existing culture. I know, as Krishna Manjushri, would be, we have so many values, that we have to build, within ourselves.
I was thinking, if, maybe, Acharyas, or Prabhupada, is there a certain, set of core values, for us as, Isvam, or Vaishnavas, that, we can filter down to, Okay, it’s a big question. It’s like, every organisation, has core values. We will, as a movement, have some core values.
We could talk about, see, every organisation, has two things. It’s technique, and, language of, philosophy, and religion, and it’s called as, doxy and praxis. Like, you have orthodoxy, doxy is doctrine, philosophy, and praxis is practise.
what is our, what is our philosophy, in that, what is the core, and what are, what are practises, in that, what is the core. So, if you consider, philosophy, now Prabhupada wrote many books, Prabhupada never gave, like, these five points are our philosophy. When Prabhupada was asked directly, if somebody wants to study, your working summary, Professor Hopkins asked him, Prabhupada said, quoted, one, two, nine, and ten, their purpose.
That is, dharma syah, dharma is meant for transcendence, human life is meant for spirituality. So, we could say, in our tradition, bhakti from Thakur is given to, dasamod tatva. Dasamod tatva is actually, very, very simple principles, that, Hari is the supreme, that we are all parts of Hari, some parts are under illusion, bhakti is the best way, to come out of illusion, Vedas are, come from Hari, they are core principles.
So, I have received, talks on dasamod tatva, and they are on my website. So, we could say, so many devotees, there is a whole discussion, right now, going on at the GBC level also, I am a part of the Shastra Advising Council, which, works in the GBC, so we are discussing about this. So, many devotees are recommending, the dasamod tatva, as our core, philosophical axis.
It is not yet, officially, formalised by the GBC, it may take some time, but, there is, one possible statement, Now, as far as, our practises, our purposes, are concerned, we can look at, the seven purposes, of this conference. So, Prabhupada says that, we want to, correct the imbalance, of values in society. We want to have, a place, for the, dedicated to, Prabhupada doesn’t say, we want to erect a temple, he says, we want to erect a place, for, dedicated to, the transcendental, pastime of Krishna.
We want to make people, closer to each other, and to Krishna. We want to, publish books, for this purpose. Again, the seven purposes, are there.
I have similar classes, on that also. But, I would say, these, could be the core values. Now, interestingly, the seven purposes, of this conference, Prabhupada doesn’t talk, so much about, you have to refute, this philosophy, and that.
He says, there are many teachings, and part of the teachings, are also countering, certain misconceptions. But, you know, we can counter misconceptions, only after we have, earned the trust, of people. So, many times, what we do is, even before we have, earned their trust, we start challenging, their conceptions.
And, if their faith, in what they are practising, is more than their faith, in us, then they will simply, reject us, as being fanatic. So, I think, those could be, the core values. And, again, if you want to, take it further back, in our tradition, through, Navami, Sunyata, there are a lot of, these things, you know.
Humanity, tolerance, and respectfulness. Those are, something, which could be, also considered. It’s difficult.
Krishnaskar, I just want to say that, this is the, this is the words, that we should make, like a neck bead, and wear around our neck. So, we could consider that also, to be like a, core value. But, it’s an important, decision.
And, to some extent, we all, in our practises also, we, we, evolve towards, certain core values. So, see, some of us may come from a, broad, Karma background. Karma means, not in a negative sense, like, work and rituals.
Karma background, that’s Karma Tantra. Some of us may come from, a Gyan background. Now, again, generalising, is always problematic.
But, when Indians, come to Bhakti, to Krishna Bhakti, in Krishna Conscious Movement, most, most Indians, come from a, Karma background. When, Western people, come to Bhakti, if they had a, Karma background, they would go to, If they come, they try to go to, Gyan background. Gyan background, they have deep, philosophical questions.
It’s not that, Indians don’t have, philosophical questions. They also have. The point is, broad, they don’t have, broad categories.
So, so, for many Indians, the rituals, become very important. This is what, we were doing in our family. And, for many people, Westerners, rituals are important.
Philosophy is important. And, that’s why, we can have some, East-West struggles, or, tussles, in our movement also. So, it’s because, we came from, a particular background, that’s why, we naturally, consider this important.
Now, that is important, but, is that the most important thing? That’s why, if we leave it to individuals, we all, at a functional level, form some core values. I was recently, at one place, you know, I’ve fallen down. I, you know, I’m lost, and weird.
He said, what happened? He said, I thought, maybe some terrible thing, has happened. He said, I couldn’t fast, and I didn’t do it. No, I couldn’t fast, and I didn’t do it, and I vanished.
He said, that is disaster, for you. Okay. So, this devotee, was fantasising, so much, and he thinks, you know, after that, I had this problem, my boss became upset with me, my car broke down, my computer is not working, is Krishna angry with me, because I didn’t fast? So, for him, that became the core value.
I was thinking, I’m ruined, if I couldn’t follow this. So, it doesn’t have to be like that. So, the core values, when we don’t, the basic principle, we can say is, okay, when we are going further, is, anubhava, whatever takes us closer to Krishna, we accept that.
Whatever takes us away from Krishna, we keep a distance from it. So, always in Krishna, never forget Krishna, that is our ultimate goal. Thank you.
Great. Next one. I don’t know.
He talked about, the acceptance. Sri Rupa Bala’s main, the relationship, building his relationship, with any, whether devotee or not, devotee has an acceptance. But he had that, compassionate nature, from his heart.
hearing this, yes, we can develop, but that’s very difficult. When I go, suppose if I go for a public, of course, I’m not a big disciple, I’m just a man. If I go, and talk to people, and get that relationship, develop that relationship, acceptance sometimes, you know, hey, this guy doesn’t know anything, you know, that obviously will happen.
So how do I, you know, digest myself, basically, give that acceptance, and then, compassionate, I don’t have that at all, so. Okay. So, if we don’t have that acceptance, of people, where they are, what do we do? Broadly, there are two kinds of people, liberal and conservative.
Now, now, actually speaking, this terminology, doesn’t really apply to, ISKCON so much, because even the most liberal, ISKCON devotees, are more conservative, than the most conservative, or other religions. Now, who is falling for, who is chanting, 16 prayers? So, we could say that, our liberal is also, very conservative. But, to some extent, broadly speaking, see, people who are conservative, they are more concerned, about structures, about hierarchies, about processes.
People who are, more liberal, are concerned, more about people. Now, both are important. I gave a whole class, last Sunday, on North Carolina, on this topic.
Now, suppose somebody is a doctor. Now, somebody is a brain surgeon. Now, they have to very carefully, follow the process, if they want to treat the patient.
Okay, cut the brain from this part, and do this, do this. Very carefully, they have to follow. So, the processes are not, the processes, the standard, the protocols, they are not unimportant.
But, that particular patient, has some other complication. Then, the standard protocol, just cannot work. So, you cannot just say, I follow the process, and the patient has, certain, typical, certain, particular, background, particular problems.
That’s not my problem. Then, what we will have is, operation successful, patient dead. So, that’s what happens on that.
Our operation, teaching successful, student, yet, that’s one. Goes away, never to come back. Not to Krishna, but away from Krishna.
So, processes are important. But, people are also important. So, what integrates process, and people, importance of people, process and people is, The purpose is not just, to please the people, the purpose is not just, to follow the process.
The purpose, is to get people, to come closer to Krishna. To bring, proximity to Krishna. The purpose, that purpose is what unifies.
So, if we have that focus, on purpose, then, we will be able to, yes, naturally, we may gravitate towards, some people will gravitate, towards process, some people will gravitate, towards people. That’s more important, that’s more important. And, to some extent, it may be that, that’s the way, we are hardwired.
All of us have, a particular kind of, body and mind. then, it may well be that, it’s not so easy, for people who are conservative, to become liberal, or for liberal, to become conservative. But, what can happen is, we can see that, we both have, a common purpose.
And, we can be united, based on purpose. And then, I may be conservative, and I may, preach, and practise, in a conservative way. That’s fine.
But, as long as, I don’t say that, my way, is the only way. And, the liberals won’t say, oh, these conservative people, are prominent, they are so intolerant, they are so genuine. Okay, this is the way, I practise, Christian consciousness.
This is what inspires me. This is what, has worked for me. And, that’s why, I’m practising this way.
If somebody else, wants to practise, in some other way, that’s up to them. So, if we see the commonality, the purpose, and, we don’t, we don’t demean, people who are practising this way. Then, that’s good enough.
And, one last thing I would say is that, if especially, we hear from people, hear, hear from people, hear, then, we can understand, where they are coming from. So, when I came, came from India, I came from India, in India, in our classes, which is often, a lot of, a lot of, sarcastic jokes about, how attached people are, to their dogs. When I came to America, for me, it’s quite a shock, that many devotees also, have dogs as pets.
And then, I understand, now, when we say, somebody will go, Prabhupada, Prabhupada, there’s a Prabhupada standard, also, expression, but, if you don’t love God, you love dog. Something like that. Now, actually speaking, in today’s world, for, people, for most people, there are many, psychological studies, I actually present, I do a lot of, presentation of philosophy, and psychology.
So, many psychological studies, say that for people, who are depressed, who are lonely, who are addicted, having a pet, is, is a big step forward. Now, I’m not recommending pets, in any way, the point I’m making over here is, that, we may say that, oh, people are loving dogs, instead of dog. But, in, people’s, menu in life, God is not even an option.
So, for them, a dog, is competing with drugs. A dog, is competing with, maybe, indiscriminate net surfing. Maybe, constant video gaming.
Social media obsession. Now, compared to all these, a dog is a big step upward. And, so, if we hear from people, we understand, where they are coming from.
Yesterday, I was at a, middle school, in Wisconsin, and I was talking, about how, how spirituality can help us, to deal with difficult things. So, what are the difficult situations, you have recently gone, you have gone through? And, I gave some guidelines, about how you can, deal with them. So, one of the women, she spoke over there, elderly woman, she said that, oh, I had a dog for 21 years, and, he was very sick, and I had to put him down.
Put him down, he is in the utility, so that he dies. Because, he was in great pain. So, she said, this was such a, this was dramatic, and simple.
And, as she was speaking this, she started crying. Now, if, somebody is coming from, that background, and you say, that my dog is terrible, then, you know, it doesn’t work. So, if we understand, people, where they are coming from, then that itself, generates some empathy.
So I think those three things, not seeing the common purpose, acknowledging that there are different processes to that purpose, different parts to that purpose, and understanding where people are coming from, that can increase their acceptance and empathy. Just a follow-up question. Yeah.
One thing, how long should I stop and let you know? So our movement, I feel, it’s my understanding. Our movement, especially in India, to produce mercy is liberal. Yes.
And Jaganmohan who is conservative. So we have a liberal conservative dance together on our altars. So our movement, what I mean to say is that when we introduce, let the liberal man there and the conservative man there.
Yeah, that’s a good point. So when we introduce you’re liberal, then you’re conservative. Yeah, that’s true.
That’s what happened in our programme. In India, there are various places where people would not go. Yes.
So, actually I was talking with Ambarish Kaur recently, just yesterday. He was there to meet Radhanath Mahajan. I also happened to be there.
So Prabhupada asked Ambarish, why are you preaching to people in your social circle? So he said, yes, but when I tell them about the phone equipment, they don’t like it. And Prabhupada said, don’t tell them that. Don’t tell them that.
So the idea is what? That, say suppose a new iPhone comes up. What is it, iPhone? 11. 11, okay.
Sorry? 11 Pro. 11 Pro, okay. So if iPhone 11 Pro comes up.
Now imagine, is it any promotion, any ad, will it start with the price? This is a price. This is a price. No, first it will all start with the features.
This feature, this feature, this feature, this feature. And then you click on it, click, click, and then you find the price tag. Oh my God, I want to buy it.
So first tell the features, then tell the price. If our purpose is to sell the phone, if somebody’s purpose is to sell the phone, then you tell the features of the product before you tell the price of the product. If somebody wants to brag, you know, I bought this phone.
This is $1,200, $1,500, whatever. Then their purpose is not to inspire others to buy the phone. Their purpose is to incite others envy.
Oh, just see how wealthy I am. Look up at me and understand what a great person I am. So sometimes when we present also, it’s more to impress us.
See how strict I am, what I’m following. See, no outrage, no promotion, you tell the price of a product before you tell the features of the product. So similarly, for others, we need to first talk about the philosophy of Christian consciousness.
Explain the worldview, explain how it brings meaning and purpose to our life. Explain how it brings sublime joy into our lives. And then talk about the price.
So yes, it’s be liberal initially and be conservative later. It’s true, because it’s the etymology of the thing. The more you want, the more you pay.
And this is not manipulation. This is education. This is the way education works.
If a student who is struggling to learn basic arithmetic is shown big books of tripolitical calculus, can you go study this? And then the student will not even study what they could have studied. So be present according to people’s level. It’s so important.
Thank you. I can talk one-to-one personally. So thank you very much.