Mahabharata controversies – how life was unfair to both Karna and Arjuna

[Talk at ISKCON, Naperville, USA]

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
is not in this birth.
Hare Krishna. Thank you. Thank you for coming today.
So, today, I speak on a theme from the Mahabharata, which is of universal relevance to all of us. Basically, one of the biggest questions in life is, why is life so unfair? As you put it, why do bad things happen to good people? Recently, I was in New York and one six-year-old boy came and said, ask me this question, why do bad things happen to good people? And generally, when somebody asks this question, you need to know where they are coming from. So I asked, what happened? He says, I was taking my milk and biscuit and my biscuit fell into my mouth.
Now, what you’ve done to the bad thing happened to a good person. So we all have certain conceptions of this thing. But in general, it’s a question that we all get sometime or the other.
So one of the common questions that the scripture answer or address, rather, is this. And at one level, we can talk about the philosophy of karma and talk about how we are only getting the results of our past actions. But it is not always a very satisfactory answer.
Because we don’t know what bad karma we did and what we actually are getting for what. So that’s why scripture goes beyond that answer. The focus of scripture is not just answering the question, why do bad things happen to good people? Rather, scripture demonstrates when bad things happen to good people, what do good people do? How do good people respond? And we will look at two characters in the Mahabharata whose life trajectory both parallels and differs.
And one of them is considered to be a victim of life’s unfairness. In fact, many times when people talk about the Mahabharata, they talk about this character, how unfairly he was treated. Can any of you guess who we are talking about? Karna, yes.
So we will contrast Karna’s life story with the life story of the one whom he considered the arch rival. Who was that? Arjuna, yes. And what we will focus on is not necessarily who was more or who was better in arching.
But we will look at what situations they found themselves in and how they responded. So rather than saying that actually life was not unfair to Karna, ultimately everything happens according to one’s own karma, which is okay. But here we will take a different analysis that life was unfair to everyone.
Life was unfair to Arjuna also. If we consider it that way. In what sense? We look at three, four major incidents in their life.
Where they were born, in what environment they grew up, with whom they allied, and what choices they made toward the final battle of their life. So, Karna was born through a mishap. Kunti had got some powerful mantras and she was just trying it out.
If we get too much power too early then it can become a big problem. That’s what happened with Hanumanas. Hanumanas is a small child and children are mischievous.
But children when they are mischievous, they might just pick a ball and throw it away. But Hanumanas is a small child with big power that he could actually take a big boulder and throw it. And he was creating a great danger.
So, power without maturity actually is dangerous. So, Kunti was just trying it out and she was just a teenager at that time. And then, because she prayed to the Suryadev and Suryadev gave her a child.
And she couldn’t keep that child. So, Narasimhadeva said he just abandoned the child. It’s not like that.
She actually very carefully put the child in a wooden basket and she put lot of jewels and comfortable blankets. It would be clear to anyone who got the child that this child was actually from a well-to-do family. And as the basket was going away, she prayed to Suryadev, she prayed to the wind god and sun god and all of them.
Please guide this child to a good family. And yes, we could say he was abandoned. But then, we can also say that he did end up with a good family.
It was not a Kshatriya family. So, we could say that he was born royal, did not get the royalty. But still, he could have gone anywhere.
And the suitors are not considered to be very low class. They also respected him and he grew up to be a powerful young man who had strong Kshatriya tendencies. So, you see, his life began with unfairness.
Now, if you look at the Pandavas, for them, we could say, they were born to a royal family. Well, it was not that simple. They were born, they are considered Pandavas, but they were born to Kunti, to the gods.
And, if you consider among them, just within small children, because of an unfortunate curse, Pandu died. And, now the sages only told that you may go back to your family. They were in the forest and although they were young, their father had trained them to defend themselves, had trained them Kshatriya skills.
But still, the sages felt that without their father, the family would not be safe in the jungle. There are many dangerous animals in the jungle. And that’s why they asked him to go back to the kingdom.
Little did the sages know that in the kingdom were far more dangerous animals. These are two-legged animals. So, the very family they came to for protection, in that family itself was constant threat for them.
Bhima was just a small… Bhima was just a teenager when Duryodhana did a whole conspiracy to poison him. And the Pandavas lived in… they had to live in constant caution. They were courageous, they did not exactly fear.
But still, we say that when we go somewhere for food, you know, we go to a hotel or something, sometimes there might be food poisoning. That is also an unintentional accident. But if somebody has survived an intentional food poisoning, food is actually the… food is the activity with which we relax.
Yes, let me sit and enjoy the food. And we relax after all the work of life. And as teenagers, they were all survivors of a food poisoning.
And it was not that Duryodhana’s malnourishment was over. That scheme didn’t work. He was constantly trying.
And sometimes it happens for us that something terrible happens to us and then, at least we can if say we are robbed or we are abused, we may complain to the authorities. But suppose if somebody is living in, say, a place where the mainstream community is biassed against a particular community, and something terrible happens, you can’t even complain about it. So the Pandavas and their life had been threatened and here, they couldn’t complain.
Why? Because Yudhisthira said that Bhishma, although he is virtuous, Bhishma demonstrates through his life. Bhishma is a very complex character. But overall, he demonstrates rule bound dharma.
Niyam baddha dharma. And whereas the Mahabharata moves towards, you could say, not just categorical morality, if you want to English word it. This is right, this is wrong.
This is what I am going to do, this is what I am not going to do. There is Niyam baddha dharma and there is Uddesh baddha dharma. Uddesh is purpose.
So there you can call it as categorical ethics and there are contextual ethics. So, Bhishma, if once he gave the word, that’s all. Now this can be a virtue but sometimes it can be a problem also.
Because he had sworn loyalty to the reigning Kuru king. And the reigning Kuru king was Dhritarashtra, although he is a caretaker, he was the king. And he knew, Yudhisthira said that if we complain, they are just newcomers in the community.
Now if we complain, we don’t even know who is on our side. And if there is a conflict between the two families, Bhishma will, although he may be right, Bhishma will take the side of Duryodhana, of Dhritarashtra. So he said just don’t complain but be cautious.
So, the Pandavas lived constantly with threat to their life. Now you may say Kshatriyas always live with threat to their life. Well, that is true but there is a context to it.
Kshatriyas, they have a threat to life when they go off for fighting in a war. But in your own home to live with the fear of food poisoning or assassination, it’s a very difficult way to live. So, now if you consider, what wrong had the Pandavas done for this, to get this? They had not done anything specific to antagonise Duryodhana.
It was just that Duryodhana was against them. So, we could say from their birth and childhood, Karna was deprived of the honour of being a Kshatriya. The Pandavas were deprived of fatherhood.
The Pandavas were deprived of fatherly protection and even family protection. They had to normally our family protects. For them, they had to be protected from their family.
They had to protect themselves from their family. So, it was just as unfair for both of them. In different ways and ultimately we could say distress is not quantifiable.
The point here is not to say that Karna’s distress was greater or the Pandavas’ distress was greater. The point is that for the sufferer, the pain is the most acute. Because the sufferer was experiencing it.
Because for the sufferer, the pain every time when it comes, it’s new. For the observer, it’s the same old thing. If I have back pain, I have back pain.
Every time I feel it, it feels intense. For somebody else, oh, you have back pain. That’s what it is.
It’s not another heartless. But for the observer, it’s the same old thing. But pain always feels new to the experiencer.
Intense. So, we can’t really quantify pain. Here, the point is that life was overall unfair to both of them.
Now, A is not having honour or greater pain or not having safety or greater pain. Having honour having respect but no safety or having no respect but safety. It’s difficult to say.
The point is both of them had difficulties. Then, they grew up. And, if we consider, Karna, he could say that at one level, it was unfair because he could not get into Drona’s academy.
He could not be trained personally by Drona. As Arjuna got the privilege of being trained by Drona. That’s true.
But, Karna eventually got training from a competent one. From whom? Parashurama. So, he somehow got it.
And, although Parashurama was very upset when he heard about Karna’s deviousness. Karna pretended to be a Brahmana not a Kshatriya to get that training because Parashurama had said, I will not train Kshatriyas. But, Parashurama did not just curse him so that all his power would go away.
He had that power almost throughout his life. So, both of them eventually did get training. It’s like today’s world.
One student might get into a great academy. Others might get into a not so great academy. But, eventually, which university one is in matters.
But, equally matters how well one applies oneself. And, Parashurama was a formidable teacher. In fact, he was far better than all the world’s Kshatriyas.
So, he went there and they both got the education. They both became great archers. So, now, there are all, all the time in our life, see, every moment we are making choices.
But, some moments, we make big choices. And, sometimes, we feel that I have got a big break. But, it, things are not always the way they look to.
So, for Karna, when Duryodhana accepted him as his friend. So, we could say both Arjuna and Karna got their big break. We’ll talk about the similarities and the differences.
So, what was the big break for Karna? Duryodhana made him the king of Anga. More than that, Duryodhana accepted him as his friend. So, there was a time when the Pandavas, all the students of Drona were exhibiting their skills.
And, at that time, Karna said, I can exhibit equally. Now, Karna was almost like gate-crashing over there. It was, if there is a particular university and the graduates of that university may be dancing or singing or whatever, they are exhibiting their skills.
Some other student from some other university comes and says, I want to exhibit myself. I can do better than you. Well, that was not so appropriate.
But still, at that time, through a whole series of events, Duryodhana saw, this person can be the foil for Arjuna. Karna had initially said that I will exceed everything that Partha has done. But then, he equally couldn’t exceed.
But still, Duryodhana was impressed. Then, he said, I accept you. If people don’t accept you as a Kshatriya, I will accept you as a Kshatriya.
I will make you a Kshatriya. And you offer in the honour of kingship. This was for Karna a very big change.
If you look at the life stories of people, some people may be born in great prosperity, but ultimately when you grow in life, there are certain moments when we develop a connection with somebody influential. Then we change our life. Now, at that time, when Karna his honour was saved by Duryodhana and honour was bestowed upon him also, he naturally felt indebted to him.
And he said, what can I do for you? He said, I don’t want anything except your friendship. This might seem very endearing, you want nothing but my friendship. That you will have throughout my life.
But, he didn’t know what that friendship would cost him. There are two kinds of friends. Some friends take you to lunch.
Some friends take your lunch away. So, now which friend who is, that we come to know only when we are hungry. So, when we are hungry, they are also hungry.
So, we can’t know at this time, which is a wonderful friendship. So, from obscurity, Karna suddenly rose to overnight fame. And he became a top player.
Just like say, cricket, sports of cricket. Somebody is a local star, a local player and suddenly a top coach spots them and slots them into the international team. It’s a big break for them.
So, he moved from obscurity to a position of great power and prosperity. Now, for the Pandavas also, something similar happened. After their life was threatened, when they were tempted to be burnt alive in Varnavat, then they escaped.
And, although they were royalty, they were living in poverty as brahmanas. And then they went for the Swayamvar of Draupadi. And there, Arjuna’s unparalleled skills came up.
And by those unparalleled skills, Arjuna won the hand of Draupadi. And after he won that hand of Draupadi, and when Drupada came to know that actually they are the Pandavas, he was delighted and the news actually spread. So, at that time, Dhritarashtra recognised that Ardhishma told Dhritarashtra and Dhritarashtra acknowledged that I cannot now keep the Pandavas bereaved of their kingdom.
So, then he called them back because now what had happened, they were not just some orphan children. They were the son-in-law of one of the most powerful dynasties of that time. That time there were two major kingdoms.
There was the Panchala kingdom and the Kuru kingdom. So, this alliance could have changed the fortune of the Pandavas. Because their fortune was their own fortune.
They were lustrous. They were glorious warriors. That’s true.
But, there is power that also comes from our connections. It’s not that every single time you need to fight to get something. There can be different kinds of peace and there can be different kinds of violence.
There has been peace because there are two dogs and neither of them have teeth. So, there are two powerless people and they are peaceful. That is not because they are innately peaceful, but they don’t have anything to create violence.
Now, there are two powerful people who both have the capacity to be dangerous to the other person. And both of them restrain themselves. So, this is the peace that is based on respect.
So, the Pandavas could have fought. But in most situations fighting is not required. It is the power to fight that is required.
And what happens? People who don’t have the power to fight are often the most eager to fight. So, it’s wonderful if everything could work on morals or principles but life is not so fair. So, sometimes you don’t have to fight, but you have to have the power to fight.
And then the other person recognises. The Pandavas now had the power to fight in a very visible way. So, then they were called back and they were given a kingdom.
But again what happened? There has been a barren half of the kingdom. Khandavas. So, we could say that now Karna’s lucky break or big break was what he got to Duryodhana.
The Pandavas got their big break you could say through Drupada, through Dhritarashtra, but it was more like what was their right, they got it back. What had been taken away from it, they got it back. Now, both of them became kings.
Karna was powerful king, but there was no match the five Pandavas combined together. And, now, whenever we get something, there is always a price for it. On the internet nowadays, there are so many free things offered.
See, when any product is offered freely, actually, the price that is paid for that free product is the BRS. What happens is, we get hooked to it. And once we get hooked to it, our consciousness, our time, our desires are attached to it.
So, there is nothing free in the world. For Karna, he got his lucky break. But the result of that lucky break was that he became entangled with Duryodhana.
So, initially, he may not know how good or how bad Duryodhana is. And, we see in the Mahabharata, initially, whenever Duryodhana comes up with any delirious schemes, Karna says, why are you doing all this? Let’s call the Pandavas to a straight fight and defeat them. But, Duryodhana has another person influencing him.
Who is that? Shakuni. And, that big break for him, for Karna, came at the cost of being obliged to somebody who was not virtuous. For the Pandavas, the big break came naturally.
They did not associate with anybody who was vicious. Drupada was a virtuous king. Everybody makes some mistakes.
And, Drupada also made a mistake of antagonising Drona by his actions. But, it was not that Drupada was a habitually vicious person. So, okay, both of them got their big break.
Then, the Shakuni fought. And, we may say that Karna naturally had to be grateful to Duryodhana because he gave a shipping gift to him. It’s true.
But, everything that we do, everything that we get in life, it all has to be seen in terms of situation. What is right today, may not be right tomorrow. What is right tomorrow, may not be right tomorrow.
Because, the same thing, say for example, if a patient is a little sick, there is a strong medicine, that is right today. If the patient becomes sicker by tomorrow, then the body may not have the capacity to take that very strong medicine. Might need surgery, might need something else.
So, we cannot have a one-size-fits-all formula for everyone. So, Karna’s attitude was that I will be Duryodhana’s friend. And, what happens in life is that we are all influenced by the people around us.
So, Karna slowly started becoming wicked like Duryodhana. And, this was where was the major turning point. Now, some turning point can be upward, some turning point can be downward.
For the Pandavas, they got a lot of honour when they were enthroned as the world emperors to the Rajasuri area. But, then, after that came extreme dishonour. That was Draupadi’s dishonour.
They were dispossessed of everything, defrauded in a gambling match, and they had to go to the forest and live. So, for the Pandavas, it was extreme dishonour. Now, which dishonour was worse? Karna had to, although he became the king, still, there were many Kshatriyas who didn’t accept him as the king.
Sometimes, they referred to him as the Sutaputra. So, is that dishonour worse, or is it the dishonour that that the Pandavas went through, that worse? Again, it’s difficult to say. Karna’s dishonour was constant, you could say lifelong.
So, is that worse? Say, for example, somebody has a particular, somebody is blind, or lame, or deaf, or something like that, lifelong. Is that bad? Or, somebody who is like a big athlete, and then they become cripplingly lame, for not just a month or two, but for several years. Which is worse? It’s difficult to say.
It’s difficult. Both are painful, and in their own ways, it’s painful, whoever is going through it. So, the point here, again, as I said, is not to compare whom life offers more unfair.
It’s just to see in context that life is unfair for everyone. So, now, what happens eventually? When life is unfair to us, either we respond by acting in ways that are unfair, or we stick to fair ways. So, what happened? When he got the association of Duryodhana, he slowly started becoming better.
And the Pandavas, they also had all reasons to become better. But they did not. They went to the forest, and they were living with the sages.
And what happened? Through that, they maintained their perspective. The Pandavas were in the forest. Among them, if you see, among all the Pandavas also, Arjuna was the most heroic, but Arjuna also suffered the most.
The world is such a thing that the more fame you get, the more infamy also you have on the world. So, among all the Pandavas, it was Arjuna who had to go to exile before us. The Pandavas had a particular arrangement about how they would spend time with Draupadi.
And if anybody violated that, then they had to go to the forest. It happened that Arjuna had to regain the wealth that had been stolen from Brahmana, and he needed his weapons. And those weapons were in the chamber where Dhristadyasa and Draupadi were there.
And he went in for doing something good. And in the external situation, he went and recovered the Pandavas, the Brahmana’s wealth. And then he came and insisted that I am going to the forest.
So, he had to go to exile for that purpose. Then again, fortunately for him in exile, he made further alliances. Again, when the Pandavas were in the forest, Arjuna was the most heroic.
But, for most people who see somebody who is successful, say, number one sports player, or number one business person, number one author, number one singer, we see their status, but usually to be at the top in any field, it requires a bone-breaking level of effort. So, it is Arjuna who among all the Pandavas is the most virtuous, but still Arjuna performed the most severe austerities. Because he, all the Pandavas were in the forest, but Arjuna went from the forest to the top of the mountains and severe austerities he performed to propitiate the gods.
And then, of course, with that austerity he got the honour of going to the heavens and there he got great power over there. But, he got it all nothing free. Everything he had to pay a price for it.
So, during all this time, Karna he was also preparing, but Karna did not do any severe austerity like Arjuna. He was always the worshipper of Surya. Somehow he felt a great attraction to Surya.
And he would worship Suryadeva and he would do some austerities to worship Suryadeva. He would give charity. And then, as things went on, eventually he came to the final batch.
So, there are some choices. We could say at one level, every choice is irrevocable. In the sense that, that moment, that opportunity is gone forever.
But, sometimes that opportunity comes back. And some choices are irrevocable in the sense that, that opportunity will never come back. So, for both of them, when this final war was taking place, that was the time they had to choose.
So, in, let’s see now, this is a very revealing comparison. We know what happened before the Kurukshetra war. All the Kauravas and the Pandavas were seeking alliance.
And Duryodhana was a good politician. So, he knew how to win people over. And everybody knew that he would get some allies.
But even the Pandavas were surprised to see how many allies he got. You see, in the world, truth is determined not just by what happens. But, truth is determined by how what has happened is broadcasted.
Say, for example, you know, somebody used to be recommended for initiation. And you may say that, okay, he had problems earlier, but he’s stable now. But if somebody wants to give a negative twist to that, he’s stable now, but he had problems earlier.
So, the facts are entirely the same. But the twist is completely different. So, what happened was, the Pandavas were in the forest, out of circulation.
Just in the forest. But Duryodhana was cultivating all connections. And he spun the whole story in an entirely different way.
And although what he had done was outrageous, but he made it seem as if it was the Pandavas were wrong. So much so, it is said that even Balram was one of Duryodhana’s narrators. And at the end of their agyatwas, when the Pandavas were planning what to do, Balram said the Pandavas should go hungry.
It was because of their own mistakes that they lost everything. They should not arrogantly demand, but they should be humble. The Pandavas were surprised, because initially, after they had been exiled, Balram had come and he was as angry as Krishna.
What has happened is atrocious. But what changed? So, Balram, Duryodhana was constantly spinning the story his own way. So, at this point, when the allies were to be formed, Pandavas and Tauravas were not allies.
And both of them wanted Krishna as their ally. And what happened? Arjuna, when he had to choose, there was the whole Narayan Sinha on one side and there was Narayan, Krishna on the other side. And unhesitatingly, what did Krishna, Arjuna, choose? He said Krishna.
And after that, Krishna asked him, why did you choose me? And Duryodhana let a big show and said, oh, if you have taken Krishna, I will have to settle for that. Internally, he was thinking, what a fool! Even one person is also non-combatant. What is he going to do? what he did Arjuna asked Krishna, why did you choose me instead of my own ally? He said, Krishna, what is the Narayan Sinha without Narayan? The world without Krishna is actually nothing.
But, this was the critical choice that Arjuna made. Now, Karna also had to make a big choice. In this case, actually, Arjuna and Duryodhana, both of them had gone to Krishna.
But, in the case of Karna, it was Krishna himself who came to meet him. Now, Krishna’s purpose was initially, it was to try to avoid the war itself. Like I said, right now, in India, Pakistan, things are quite hot.
So, best is if you say, avoid war. Let’s avoid all that. But, if war is going to take place, let’s at least minimise the violence.
So, Duryodhana said, we will not use nuclear weapons. We also don’t use nuclear weapons. So, Krishna first, similarly, went and talked with Duryodhana.
But, Duryodhana was obstinate. Utterly obstinate. There are different ways of saying no.
So, Duryodhana said, for example, if we invite somebody for a programme, and they say, actually, I have this thing to do, or that thing to do, I can’t come for the programme. It might be an excuse, but, at least they are making an excuse. Isn’t it? I was at a conflict where there was a remediation between two devotees, and one devotee gave an explanation.
And the other devotee said, if you are going to speak a lie, don’t insult my intelligence, at least speak a believable lie. Laughter So, if somebody says that, okay, I have this thing to do, I have that thing to do, it may be true, it may not be true, but at least they are making an excuse. And they give a reason.
Suppose somebody says, you are inviting me for your programme? Even if I die, my dead body will never come for your programme. Laughter So then, that is not just a no, it is a request. Like a slamming no in the face of the person.
Door being slammed. So, Duryodhana’s no to Krishna was like that. He says, not just I refuse your peace proposal, I will not give you enough land to put even the tip of a needle through.
So then, Krishna decided that, okay, now war can’t be avoided, let’s at least make sure there are no nuclear weapons. So, the nuclear weapon there was Karna. So, he decided, let’s approach Karna.
Now, when Krishna approached Karna, Krishna told him, actually, you are entangled with Duryodhana, but you don’t belong here. You belong to the Pandavas. You are from their family.
And you, you come over to their side and you will get all that Duryodhana gave you and much, much more. He said, you wanted to prove your superiority over Arjuna. Arjuna is your younger brother.
He will follow you just as the way he follows Dhrishti. He comes to know that you are his brother. So, everything that Karna wanted, Karna wanted honour, respectable lineage, acceptance in the mid-class society, and Karna would have got all of it.
He just had to say yes to Krishna. And Duryodhana, sorry, Pandavas, Arjuna, he had to choose. So, Karna was getting Krishna and the world.
Arjuna had to choose between Krishna and the world. So, in a sense, Arjuna’s choice was much, much more difficult. But Arjuna chose Krishna.
Karna, he got Krishna and the world and yet he didn’t choose. He said no. So, Duryodhana fought this war with his faith in me.
I cannot betray. He was not betraying Duryodhana. It was Duryodhana who was betraying his own dynasty by by using his own selfishness to cause a fratricidal war.
Betraying a betrayer is not betrayal. Betraying a betrayer is not betrayal. That’s what Vibhishan did when he left the side of Ravana.
So, now he had this misguided sense of morality. And, ultimately, this choice is what everyone has. There are many different specifics that may be there into a person’s life.
But, do we choose Krishna or do we choose something other than Krishna? So, for all of us, when bad things happen, we ask why did this happen? And we can try to find answers to that, certainly, as much as possible. But, ultimately, what do good people do when bad things happen? Good people try to choose God. In the world, why suffering comes is very difficult to know.
Now, what the cause of suffering is very difficult to know. But, Krishna is the ultimate cure for all suffering. And, that choice if we make, when we find that, okay, bad things are happening, and it’s not that just by choosing Krishna, everything will suddenly become wonderful.
Pandavas had to fight. And it was a fierce fight. Not easy.
And they also faced severe reversals Apnoji was killed. Anasar of Arjuna, Ravana was killed before that. So, they faced severe severe pain.
But, eventually, they were victorious. So, for all of us, this is the essential choice when the mind says, why is this happening to me? Yes. We try to find out why it’s happening.
But, beyond that, what am I going to do in return? Am I going to choose Krishna? Or, am I going to choose resentment, doubt, frustration? If we choose the other, then we will be going on the trajectory that Karna went. None of us have as much power as Karna had. And none of us actually even have as much virtue as Karna had.
But, by that choice, he was killed. So, for everyone of us, when something terrible happens in our life, there is a specific choice we have to make, but there is a generic choice we have to make. They said that, the way to live in the world is to first, fix your eyes on the stars.
And then, take your steps. What that means is, get your values, get your purposes right. What? What am I living for? This has happened.
I don’t know why it has happened. But, what is the purpose of my life? We can’t know the cause of everything. But, we can know the purpose of everything.
Cause is specifically, this person did this, and this person did this, that’s why this happened. That’s cause. But, purpose is, what is it meant for? So, ultimately, the purpose of everything is to help us to grow towards Krishna, provided we meet the right choice.
So, Karjuna made, and Karna did not. At the end, when Karna was killed, it was because, not just specifically because of the way that particular battle turned out, but it was because of the long series of choices that he had made. And, the lessons from Mahabharata, essentially, Mahabharata begins with the question, what is Dharma? And, Mahabharata also quotes the same words which the Bhagavatam quotes.
Dharma is very difficult to understand. But, look at the way Greek souls have lived. So, the Mahabharata, doesn’t just say, study Shastra and learn about Dharma.
Dharma is not just a series of exhaustive codes that you memorise and then replicate. Life is very complex. Dharma is more like a compass that we develop by regular reorientation.
And, when we study the lives of these great characters in the scriptures, and try to enter into the situations that they were facing, and understand the choices that they made, then we also will develop similar characteristics. Or, similar for the virtuous characters, when we learn how to choose properly. I mean, those characters who make wrong choices, how not to choose.
And, the Mahabharata’s controversy comes because, Karna, we normally think that Karna, there are so many unfair things happened to him. So many unfair things happened. And, destiny always favoured Arjuna.
But, it’s not like that. Destiny was just as harsh to Arjuna as it was to Karna. And, just as Arjuna got lucky breaks, Karna also got lucky breaks.
Ultimately, it boiled down to everyone’s choice. So, Karna, at the critical moments, chose Duryodhana instead of Krishna. He chose the world and honour in the world over Krishna, although Krishna was also offering honour in the world.
Arjuna chose Krishna, even if it meant losing everything in the world. And, by that, he gained Krishna and he gained the world also. So, for us, every day when we chant the holy names, every day when we do our sadhana, do our puja, we are actually making the habit of choosing Krishna.
And, when the moments of crisis come, whether we will be able to consciously choose Krishna or not, we don’t know. But, whenever it is possible, we make the habit of choosing Krishna and that habit will gradually prompt us more and more. And, then, in the moments of crisis also, we will choose Krishna.
And, thus, we will evolve. Even if we can’t know the cause of everything, through everything, we will be moving towards the ultimate purpose of everything, which is attaining love for Krishna and attaining eternal life with him. So, in summary, I spoke to you on this theme of controversy on Mahabharata.
Is life unfair? You could say the controversy was. Was life unfair to Karna? I said, the basic thing was, it was unfair to both Karna and Arjuna. Now, the question that is both asking is not just why do bad things happen to good people, but what do good people do when bad things happen to them? So, we discussed how it’s very difficult to compare distress, but everybody’s distress feels terrible for them.
Karna was born deprived of royalty because of his birth situation. And the Pandavas were born deprived of safety because of their birth and childhood situations. Karna got education, archery.
Arjuna also got that. Karna got his big break when Duryodhana made him his friend. Arjuna got his big break when they won the hand of Draupadi in swayamvar.
But, it was subsequent choices that Duryodhana was a vicious person and Karna was spoiled by that association. Duryodhana was, Karna was dishonoured because he was not accepted as a Kshatriya by many. The Pandavas were viciously dishonoured and they had to live in great agony for 13 years of their policy.
So, lifelong pain or acute, multi-year long pain which was difficult to see again. And ultimately, the biggest turn for them was the time when they had to choose. Karna, Arjuna chose Krishna instead of the world.
Karna could choose Krishna and the world but he failed. He chose the world over Krishna. And thus, he courted his own destruction.
And for each one of us, if we ultimately we consider what is the choice I have. We can’t know the cause of why things are happening sometimes. But we can know the purpose.
That means, look, first align with the stars and then choose your steps. It’s like when a storm is coming in a ship for an ocean, there right itself you can’t know which way to go but look at the stars. This is the direction and then find a way in that direction.
So, if we do that with our daily habit of sadhana, choosing Krishna, then even moments of big crisis also, we will choose Krishna. Ultimately, we will attain Krishna. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. Any questions? Hare Krishna. Thank you.
I have a couple of questions. The first question was if Karna knew that Krishna is the Supreme Lord and he knows everything. That means Krishna himself is the Supreme Lord.
If Karna knew or not, that’s my first question. The second question is even though Duryodhana had supported him. Separate question.
So, did Karna know that Krishna was God? See, ultimately, he had heard about it. But, did he believe it? His actions show that he didn’t believe it. Ultimately, when we say we believe something, we believe something is chosen to our actions.
At that time, when Krishna had descended, Krishna had done some extraordinary things. Now, for many, those extraordinary things, the extraordinary actions were evidence of his divinity. For others, they were evidence of his great prowess, but not divinity.
So, Karna had certainly heard from the sages, from the Brahmins, from Bhishma and others that Krishna is God. But, he didn’t accept it. Did he reject it? Karna was never as openly disrespectful to Krishna as he was.
So, he was not averse to Krishna directly. But, it’s clear that he did not accept Krishna as God. So, knowing and accepting are two different things.
He knew that Krishna had injected Govardhan or whatever, killed so many demons. He is a great warrior. Is he God? Maybe, maybe not.
There is no specific declaration by Karna, where he says, I know you are God, but still I will go against you. Nothing like that. Not that specific.
In general, Krishna does anything. In the Bhagavad Gita, it does say times to Arjuna that I am God. But, throughout the Mahabharata, Krishna doesn’t draw on his Godhood to win arguments.
Krishna persuades based on reason. Krishna doesn’t want to override anyone’s freedom. So, Krishna persuades Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita on the reason.
Of course, based on scripture, but it’s a reason. And he tries to persuade Karna also based on reason. So, he doesn’t draw on, I am God, you must obey me.
That’s not the mode of Krishna. So, that answers partly my question. That means Karna, because of the association of the Yodan, maybe he did not accept Krishna.
That might be a falsehood. Because of the association. And then, the intention of the Yodan supporting, I don’t know what was the intention behind supporting Karna for every aspect.
But, I am thinking that Karna did the right thing because he supported him in his life and all. He was looking for something great. And Karna got that from the Yodan.
So, I don’t know why did he do anything wrong there because of his faithfulness. Good point. Was there anything wrong in Karna’s being grateful and faithful to the Yodan? No, it is not that he was being grateful.
These are all very good virtues. But, again, context is important. So, imagine, say, in a country like Pakistan or Afghanistan, there are poor children who are starving.
And then some terrorist organisation comes and feeds them and provides them all facilities. And then, eventually, for those kids at that time, it is just, I am hungry and you give me food. I am grateful.
But then, eventually, when they grow up and they are given enough, they say, go and kill all these people. You saved my life at that time. But does that mean I go and kill innocent people? So, you have to be grateful.
But, see, no virtue can be raised to the supreme out of context. Gratitude is a very good virtue. But does gratitude mean that we are lifelong obliged to someone who is telling us to do terrible things? So, we have yet to consider context also.
So, what happened was, at that time, for him to be grateful and to commit himself to Duryodhana was not enough. But, eventually, when Duryodhana started to acknowledge the evil things that he did, at that time, Karna was not obliged. He felt obliged, but that is why dharma is so subtle.
As I said, something that is right at one time may not be right at the later time. So, initially, for Karna to commit to Duryodhana was good. But then, when Duryodhana starts doing all sorts of terrible things, then he has to rethink.
Did I come here for this? Did I become friends with him for this? No. So, that’s why context is important. So, there is nothing wrong initially, but eventually, his affection, his attachment, his gratitude, whichever way you want to look at it, it blinded him to the perversity of Duryodhana’s character.
Just because somebody is good to us, does not mean that the person is good. We can know that you are good to me and I am grateful that you are good to me. But just because you are good to me, doesn’t mean you are good to me.
I have to see also how you are behaving with others. And if you are terrible with others, do I want to be a part of that? I have to consider that. Thank you.
Yes. I will come to you. Was Karna… Did Karna always represent himself in front of Parashurama? Did he already know that Karna represented himself from different ages? Well, Parashurama had taken a vow that I will never teach any Kshatriyas.
I will not teach anyone except Brahmins. So, he represented himself as a Brahmin. Karna represented so that he could get that education.
Thank you. Yes, any question of the Mataji’s? You can take the mic. Thank you very much.
When I… Did Karna think that Kunti Devi came and asked? Do you think that she is only asking to protect Parashurama and not really because she loves him? Yes. When Kunti came and told him that don’t fight, you are my son. So, was it because of love for her sons? Yes.
This is a very difficult thing to say. Now, Karna… It’s for a mother. Even if the child, she has never… She has never taken care of that child.
But still, her heart is there with her. She has kept that child in her body for nine months and then she is not there. So, she had love for him also.
But now, what Karna thought was that it was basically that… There are two different things over here. One is that he felt that he had a vow that anybody who comes to me for charity will never go empty handed. So, he wanted to keep that vow.
Now, Kunti did not ask him that that at least my five sons live. That’s what he said. Since you had five sons, you will always have five sons.
I will not kill any of the other sons. Then you will have Arjuna or you will have me. That was in one sense his sense of honour.
You can say it was arrogance. But it was just honour of being charitable. Because of which he said, you will always have five sons.
But, at that time, he didn’t… He was so… He felt so obligated or attached to Duryodhana that he didn’t see Kunti’s love. At that time, if Kunti throughout her life deserved fear that what had happened earlier might scandalise her reputation. Then, but then it doesn’t matter.
It was between choosing her reputation and her son’s life. She is ready to risk her reputation for her son’s life. So, was it just to save her son’s life? If Karuna wanted to, Karuna could have spoken out in public and put an end to it.
He didn’t do that. But she didn’t know that he wouldn’t do that. She took that risk.
And also, was there like a mortal fear of Arjuna being defeated? I have a whole series of talks on Karuna that basically they had six encounters. And not once Karuna… The first time was in Vidurapati Swayamvar where Karuna tried to hit, but Karuna was not allowed to and Arjuna hit. So, we could say that Arjuna proved superior, but Karuna was not allowed.
So, we knew that. Before that, there was in Drona’s academy, they had gurudakshina to be given. So, he wanted that Drupada be arrested.
So, the Kauravas went first and Karuna went with them. And they were defeated by Drupada. And the Pandavas went and the Pandavas defeated Drupada.
So, Arjuna defeated the one who had defeated Karuna. Then, later on, there were many incidents, but again, when the Gandharvas attacked Duryodhana, the Gandharvas defeated Karuna, fled from there and Duryodhana was arrested. Now, Arjuna came and defeated the Gandharvas.
So, if you want to keep a score, it’s like 2-0 for Arjuna. Then again, there was the Virat Yantra. When the Virat fire, Arjuna alone defeated all the Kauravas, including Gandharvas.
So, there was not even one incident where Karuna had actually defeated Arjuna. There were times when he had equalled. The first meeting was in the Drona’s academy, where Karuna equalled everything that Arjuna had done.
So, there were some draws, but there were some victories for Arjuna. Even during the… So, there was not really that kind of mortal fear that, oh, Karuna will kill my son. Arjuna had gone and got blessings from the gods, he defeated the gods, he defeated the demons.
Look at the overall history of Mahabharata. What Arjuna had done exceeds what Karuna had done. So, he could have thought that way, but it is primarily…