From your place, at your pace, access God’s grace
How we all can access Krishna's mercy and offer that mercy to others based on where they are at.
So, the topic is from your place, at your pace, access his grace. So, wherever we are, however fast we can move, we can access the Lord's grace. I'll take this in three parts.
I'll talk first about broadly four kinds of people with respect to spirituality. And then I'll talk about understanding who is where. And then how we can help them move forward.
So, I'll speak this based on Bhagavad Gita 4.11. Krishna says, that all people are on my path. All people are on my path. And he further says that, but as all people approach me, I reciprocate accordingly.
So, when Krishna says, all people are on my path, what does it mean? Clearly, we see there are different people. Some people are materialists, some people are atheists, some people are what is called antitheists. Those who don't believe in God, they are a war against God.
To try to demonise anybody who believes in God. So, clearly there are different people in different categories. So, what does Krishna mean when he says that all people are on his path? So, broadly we could say that whenever any particular any person is practising any path.
So, there are two broad considerations. There are the practises, there is the process. The process involves usually do this and don't do this.
And there are people who are practising those processes. So, if we consider this that from that perspective, we can have these four categories of people. So, on the left side we say how much is somebody concerned for people? That's the x-axis.
The y-axis is how much is someone concerned for the practises? So, the four categories of people could be the first is somebody doesn't care even for people or for practises. They say, all this religion is nonsense, God is dead and life is meaningless. So, they care neither for practises nor for people.
So, that is nihilism. Nihilism is everything is just meaningless. And it's a very pessimistic, very draining, very life denying kind of philosophy.
It actually makes life very pointless. We all need some sense of meaning and purpose in our lives. So, nihilism says that actually this is just there is no such thing.
We are just we are just fundamental particles who have somehow come alive and we flap around for some time, we die and everything is over. So, you could say nihilism is also materialism, it is also atheism but it is something more specific. It just rejects all truths and rejects all processes to try to come to know the truth.
And this is something which is usually a person adopting this primarily because of frustration. They try to find out something, they try to experience something, they did not get answers, they got very bad answers, they got very bad experiences when they try to explore something and they say that everything is meaningless. Krishna says, Just the words before in 4.10 Krishna says that that we have to become free from various obstacles in the spiritual path.
So, krodha is anger Anger in the philosophical realm comes out as cynicism, as nihilism. Now, there is no truth at all. Now, of course, suppose that there is no truth.
Well, is this statement truth? Nihilism is actually intrinsically self-contradictory. See, if I say I don't know a single word of English How did he spoken 7 words? So, when somebody says there is no truth, they are saying this statement is a truth. So, these are self-contradictory statements.
But krodha or frustration because of inability to discern the truth and then quitting. That is, that often leads to nihilism. Now, of course, these are not necessarily for exhaustive because you could have many different schools of thought.
But for our purpose of how to connect somebody on the spiritual path, we can understand this category. I will first explain the category and then we will talk about how to connect people at each of these levels. Now, now if you consider next quadrant that some people have a lot of concern for people and so much concern for people that they have no concern for practises.
That means, oh, if I say this, if I tell them to do this, it will make them feel bad. So, better don't tell it at all. Now, yes, we don't want to unnecessarily hurt or agitate people.
But this idea is that everything is relative. So, what is good for you? If you feel it is good for you, it is good for you. If I feel it is good for me, it is good for me.
So, there again, this is not exactly nihilism. That is, your truth is your truth, my truth is my truth. And don't impose anyone's truth on anyone else.
This might seem to be like a tolerant attitude. Yeah, you know, you have your truth, I have my truth. But nobody lives like that.
I was speaking at Amazon in Seattle and there one person made this point. Everybody has their truth. Why teach anything? I said, okay.
Is there anything that anyone in the world is doing right now, which you think is wrong? Is there anything that anyone is doing in the world that is wrong? Of course. Terrorists are killing innocent people. There are child abusers who are preying on children.
There are so many things. But do those people think that what they are doing is wrong? When terrorists kill innocent people, they think they are doing it in the name of God. So actually fanatics, they use the name of God to give God a bad name.
They use the name of God to give God a bad name. But they are convinced that they are right. They say, no, no, they are wrong.
If you are a proponent of relativism, then what is right for them is right for them and what is right for you is right for you. So, relativism might seem nice. We need to be open-minded.
But we can't be so open-minded that our brains fall out. See, brains are like mouths. They need to open to take something in.
But after taking it in, they have to close. Okay, I am open to hear what you say. But after hearing, I have to make my own understanding.
So, you have to close. That this is right and this is wrong. So, relativism sounds very good.
But actually, nobody lives entirely relativistically. But in general, in relativism, people are very concerned about, this is your faith, don't impose your faith on others. These are your practises, don't impose your practises on others.
So, suppose we eat vegetarian food and somebody is eating non-vegetarian food. Then, they say, that is their choice. It's my choice.
Now, yes, with respect to diet, you may say they have choices. Now, this word choice is very popular. So, this is used even by the abortion lobby.
And they say, it's our choice. It's so striking that when a woman wants to have a child, even they hear the first heartbeat of the baby, it's a matter of celebration. The first picture, the sonography or whatever, they are so happy about it.
And the same woman doesn't want to have a child, then, that becomes a tissue. That same heartbeat becomes, just like a, what are the words they use? It's just an electrochemical pulsing of a pre-embryonic cell. This is a bombastic word.
But, it's what is happening over here. They are over-concerned for people. Now, of course, sometimes people can be in very difficult situations.
And the point here is not to demonise a woman who is thinking of abortion. Society itself is culpable that often women come to a place where they have no support, socially or familially, and they may have to make that choice. So, there are circumstances which need to be considered.
But the point is, you cannot say that ending life is just a matter of choice. So, relativism means, oh, we should not hurt the feelings of people. So, we deny all truths.
That's relativism. We have too much concern for people, but too little concern for doing the right or wrong thing. Whatever people feel, that is the right thing.
Now, the other extreme could be ritualism. Ritualism is where there is too much concern for doing the right thing. And no concern for people at all.
Whatever you feel, this is the right thing and you must do it. Ritualism is where people become blinded to other people based on their idea of what is to be done and what is not to be done. And ritualism is In ritualism, what happens? You just look at certain externals.
And if you are doing those externals, then you are right. If you are not doing those externals, then you are a terrible person. There was once a Catholic nun and she was in charge of an orphanage where young girls or orphans were raised.
And there was one young girl, she had come to her teens and she asked, when you grow up, what do you want to become? And she said, I want to become a prostitute. She said, what? Oh! Holy Jesus! Hail Mary! What did you say? Oh girl! She said, I want to become a prostitute. Thank God! I thought you wanted to become a Protestant.
In Christianity, there are two divisions. Catholicism and Protestantism. And there is a thematical difference between the two.
So now, this nun was thinking that if she becomes a Protestant, that is worse than if she becomes a prostitute. Thank God you are not becoming a Protestant. Sometimes what may happen, when we are too ritualistic, we take small differences and make them huge.
And if somebody is not doing one thing right, you are worthless. Everything that you do is just useless. So then, beyond this is Spiritualism or Spirituality.
Now, I used Ism there just for the rhyme of the four words. Spiritualism is sometimes synonym of Spirituality. And sometimes Spiritualism is used in a different sense.
See, the word spirit itself means spiritual reality and soul. But many people use the word spirit to refer to ghosts and spirits. So, Spiritualism is sometimes used for referring to the whole trying to invoke ghosts to come and through planchets talk with them and things like that.
The study of spirits. So, here what we are referring to is Spirituality. In Spirituality, there is a concern for people and there is a concern for the process.
Both together. And for the practises and the people, both the concern is combined with the idea of the idea of the purpose. The purpose of raising everyone's consciousness.
Now, for raising consciousness, it is people whose consciousness needs to be raised. And for raising consciousness, there are certain practises to be followed by which the consciousness will be raised. So, there is the understanding that both are important.
So, to give an example to illustrate these four things once again, that consider a doctor or a surgeon. Now, somebody is supposed to do surgery. Say, somebody is a brain surgeon.
Now, surgery is extremely difficult to do anyway. Brain surgery is even more difficult to do. And there are precise guidelines.
This should be done like this. Do the anaesthesia first. Then you do this.
Then do that. Then do that. And then do the whole surgery.
So, if the surgeon has to cure the patient, the surgeon has to follow the process. No doubt. But at the same time, the purpose is not simply to follow the process.
The purpose is to cure the patient. I was with one devotee who is a brain surgeon. He was telling me he had a case.
He said, this was the toughest surgery of my life. He said, this person had brain surgery. He had severe aneurysm in the brain.
And then, at the same time, he had cancer of the bones. At the same time, he had extremely weak heart wherein he had a pacemaker installed. And on top of that, he had multiple other complications.
So, he said, for so many complications together to administer, I just can't go by the book. Because the book will say one thing if you have this complication. It will say another thing if you have this complication.
If you have four complications together, how do you do that? So, he said, even if somewhere there is something which are very precisely defined, but still, you have to go according to the case. And certain things which you can do in certain cases, certain things which you can't do. So, this, if somebody, if you consider the surgical perspective, if you look at these four things now, nihilism is there is no cure for this and there is no need to cure you also.
You know, this whole medicine is a hoax and your life also is useless. Better you die. I talked about, I think, some nihilist philosophers.
One philosopher, he said that life is meaningless. Existence is suffering. The only philosophical question worth asking is whether to commit suicide today or tomorrow.
Quite a prominent well-known philosopher. But nihilism is there is no faith in the practises or process and no faith in the people also. Relativism is where the surgeon is so concerned about not causing any pain to the patient so he says, oh, if I cut over here the patient will bleed.
No, I cannot tolerate blood. Then why do you become a surgeon? Isn't it? You have to, sometimes you have to hurt. The purpose of the hurting is not hurting, the purpose of hurting is curing.
So, if a surgeon says, you know, I cannot cause any pain to anyone. Well, that is going to be the direction of relativism. There is so much concern for people's present pain that you cannot inflict any pain on them for their future good also, when it is essential.
On the other hand, ritualism is where the person is so concerned about this is the process and I have to follow it. And I don't care for anyone else. I did my job.
Once I was, for 3-4 years, I was quite sick. Like 1-1.5 years. Continuously I was sick and doctors were trying to diagnose and no diagnosis was coming.
And once the doctors told me that I used to keep getting high fever, they said, we have to do a blood test. And the nurse came to do the blood test and my full arm was filled with pinpricks because of this. So then, the nurse almost spent like 7-8 minutes trying to find out where to prick.
Now, the nurse could have said, my job is to take out the blood. If you have so many pinpricks, whatever, that's not my problem. That's your problem.
I am going to follow the process. No, the nurse didn't do that. If somebody is a heart problem and you do surgery for the heart but they have a lung vulnerability also.
And in treating the heart, you damage the lung. And the heart surgeon will come and say, operation successful, patient dead. So, ritualism is like that.
Where we are sticklers for process. My job was to take care of the heart, I took care of the heart. What about the patient? My job was the heart.
So, they are so concerned about rituals and they forget the big picture. So, now, spirituality is where we understand both. There is a patient and there is a process required to treat the patient.
The process can be painful. At the same time, the purpose is neither to avoid pain nor to cause pain. The purpose is to heal, cure the disease so that the pain will go away.
So, there is adequate sensitivity to the patient's pain. At the same time, there is adequate awareness of the necessity of following the proper process. So, now, when we are practising spiritual life, or when we are encouraging others to practise spiritual life, at that time, we are either, actually we are at the same time patients on whom surgery is being done and there are also surgeons who are doing surgery on others.
So, we are learning about spirituality and trying to apply it and we are also trying to share it with others. So, both for our personal practise and for our sharing with others. We all can veer in any of these directions.
If somebody keeps practising bhakti for many years and then they see that, oh, there is, oh, this devotee had this problem and this happened over there and that happened over there and one can say, oh, none of this stuff works. And even as devotees, we may become nihilistic that, you know, this doesn't work. I mean, chanting, nothing, there is no difference.
Now, of course, difference is there but it's gradual. We can also become nihilistic. We can become relativistic.
Oh, you want to practise that, you practise that, I will practise this. We can become very ritualistic also. This is the right thing and this is what has to be done and nothing else.
So, now, we need to be none of these but be spiritual. Spiritual means that we understand the purpose is we want to treat our heart. There are impurities in our heart which need to be removed and for removing those impurities, we need to focus on cleansing ourselves.
So, we need to follow the process of bhakti which purifies us. Now, while practising bhakti, there are certain things which can hurt our ego, certain things which can hurt our preconceptions. We think it's like this but we turn out, hey, it's not like this.
So, then, there has to be adequate sensitivity also. So, this, when Krishna says, mama vartamanu vartante manushya partha sarvasya. All people are on my path.
That means everybody falls somewhere over here and everybody ultimately is intended to come to him. They may come at the end of this lifetime, they may take hundreds of lifetimes. But they are on the path, everybody is on the journey of consciousness.
The journey of consciousness ultimately culminates in Krishna. But, they will be going toward Krishna, they will be staying where they are, they will be going away from Krishna, they will be going to various things in the world which are also manifesting a spark of Krishna's beauty. So, in that sense, everybody is on the path to Krishna.
But, it is for us to keep moving forward and to encourage others to move forward. Now, I'll talk about two verses from the Bhagavad Gita which give us some guidelines of how we can take people forward from where they are. Krishna says in 326 in the Gita Don't disturb the minds of people.
Even if they are ignorant and even if they are attached, don't disturb their minds. It's interesting, the word in Sanskrit here is buddhi. So, what is the Sanskrit word for mind? Mana.
So, it's not saying Prabhupada translates it as the mind. Why? Because for most of us, our intelligence is formed around our mind. That means we develop some opinions and then after that we come up with justifications for those opinions.
Many of us, we have certain stance whether it is about politics, about society, about people and then they ask why do you think like this? You may have to think about it. And then maybe the woman will think about reasons for it. So, we usually we rely a lot on first impressions.
We acquire opinions from various ways and then our intelligence is built around the opinions which our mind has acquired. So, that's why when the intelligence is disturbed, that means the intelligence built around the mind is disturbed. So, everybody has certain conceptions and Krishna says don't disturb their conceptions.
Don't disturb their minds even if they are ignorant and attached. What should you do? Jo shayet sarva karmani Engage them in such a way vidvan yukta samacharan in such a way that they can grow forward in their spiritual life. So, now what does this mean? We could say Krishna also had an instruction in 1866 where he says sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam sharanam vraja aham tvam sarva papebhyo mokshay mam ekam So, just give up everything else that you are doing and surrender to me.
And if there are any troubles, I will take care of them. So, you could say these two are very different levels of instructions. 326 is one level, just let people take one gentle step forward from where they are.
And 1866 is just forget everything else, come to me. So, now the point over here is that different people are at different levels. Just like there might be a medicine for a particular person.
Say somebody has got some disease for which they have to take a strong antibiotic. But then if they are already so weak that they cannot bear the antibiotic, then they have to give lesser dosage first. So that at least with their help, there is no counterproductive effect of that medicine.
Often the medicine is meant to heal but if the patient is not basically strong enough, the medicine can have some opposite effect. So, here Krishna is talking about this customisation. So, if you look at Srila Prabhupada's life and how he presented Krishna Consciousness.
If we see our Krishna Consciousness movement, it started in America and then Prabhupada based himself in India and worked over there. So, there were almost two distinct ways in which Prabhupada presented Krishna Consciousness. In America, at that time, almost everyone just left whatever they were doing and they moved to the temples and started practising bhakti full time.
Even if they had their family, still they were mostly living in the temples. Prabhupada says that in one lecture that most of the early devotees were hippies. So, the hippies had already done sarva dharman paritthaj.
I taught them mam ekam sharanam prajakam. So, they had already given up all duties. Now, duty to their family, duty to their career, duty to their nation, duty even to their personal hygiene and health, everything.
Just forget everything. But, they were in the mood of rejection. Prabhupada gave them a higher connection.
And, because they were already rejecting everything, Prabhupada just encouraged them to take it up. And, becoming a devotee at that time meant just moving to the temple. So, now, when Prabhupada went to India, although Indians initially were hugely impressed by seeing that Swami has brought so many foreign disciples, they were impressed, but they were not inspired enough to personally dedicate themselves.
They had their families, they had their dynasties, they had their careers, and they were very appreciative of Prabhupada. So, Prabhupada created something by which they could connect with him. And that was the life membership programme.
The life membership programme was basically that you contribute to Krishna's movement a certain amount and you will get all of Prabhupada's books at that time and people can come and stay in the temples. And that way, they can grow. So, now, this was a very loose affiliation.
There is no commitment to chanting any particular number of rounds. Many of them were, of course, following the regulatory principles, but there was no commitment at all like that. It was a very loose affiliation.
So, you could say what Prabhupada was doing in America was Sarva Dharmaan Prithvi. That's what he was doing. But here in India, na muddhi bhedam janaiye that if they are at that level, just engage them up from that step upward.
They were just not ready to do any kind of full-time devotional service. So, Prabhupada engaged them accordingly. And that way, now, many of these people had their own particular things that they were worshipping.
Maybe they were worshipping some devatas. They were worshipping some of their own holy men or whatever. I asked several Sri Prabhupada's disciples, when Prabhupada would go to somebody's house, they would have their own altar and Prabhupada would show their altar.
Prabhupada would never criticise what was there on the altar. They might be worshipping whatever. Prabhupada's focus was give the basic message.
You are not the body, you are the soul. Spiritual life is what is important. And Yuga Dharma.
So, Prabhupada, na muddhi bhedam janaiye. We may have that conception, Prabhupada is very strong in condemning falsehoods. That's true.
But there is a lot that is dependent on context. So, the point over here is that if somebody is not ready to take a full treatment, at least give them some treatment. So, now, if you see today, most of our movement is neither at 1866 nor at 326.
1866 is a Ranavan Pratyaja. Very few devotees are actually moving into the temple and living full-time missionary roles. And most of the devotees are not life members.
They are committed congregation devotees. They have their jobs, they have their social lives, they have their families, but most of you want to practise spiritual life seriously. To take the vows of initiation, to follow the four regs, to chant sixteen rounds, all requires a serious level of commitment.
So, what has happened is, it's neither here nor here. We are in some ways, in terms of the history of our movement, currently in uncharted territory. Of course, it's been being charted for last 20-30 years.
But, as compared to Srila Prabhupada, when he was there and where we are now, it's a very different dynamic. Earlier, we were like a temple movement, temple-based movement. Now, we are largely a congregation-based movement.
So, now, the point is that each one of us has to understand where we are and what will take us forward from there. And, if we want to engage somebody in spiritual life, then where they are, from there, one step forward. One step forward.
And how do we do that? That is where our expertise is. Our dakshata, one of the characteristics of a devotee is a devotee's daksha. That is the way from where they are, they can move forward.
So, now, many people have many, many misconceptions. What to speak of people? But, I have many misconceptions. And my seniors will help me change my misconceptions.
But, the purpose of spiritual life, what is primarily required in spiritual life, is not so much the removal of misconceptions that's required. But, the most important requirement for growing in spiritual life is appreciation for Krishna. Appreciation for Krishna in any manifestation.
It might be, oh, devotees are such nice people. You know, temple is such a peaceful place. Oh, you know, the prasad is so good.
The kirtan is so sweet. So, whatever it is, if somebody appreciates Krishna in any way, that itself is a step forward. From appreciation, gradually, commitment will come.
If there is no appreciation, then what happens? Then, commitment is out of question. All that comes is aversion. So, when we are presenting Krishna Consciousness to people, I'll talk about two examples, and then I'll conclude, and then we can have some question answers.
Say, if we have a family member, close family member or a distant family member, who is not yet practising bhakti as seriously as we are. Now, that can mean they are not practising bhakti at all, or they are practising less seriously than us, or they may be even averse to the practise of bhakti, whatever spectrum it is. So now, we may naturally want that, oh, we all want to practise bhakti together.
We may want them to practise bhakti. So, that's a natural desire, but every soul has free will. And free will means that we can't force anyone to practise.
About 20-25 years ago, when I was just newly introduced to Krishna Consciousness, I asked one of our senior leaders, I asked Jai Jai Maharaj, Maharaj, how do I preach to my father? So, he replied, by letting anyone except you preach to him. Laughter Because what happens that when we are closely related with someone, it is the dynamics of that relationship for them is more important than the relationship with Krishna. So, generally, in a traditional hierarchical society, the father instructs the children, not the son instructs the parents.
The children don't instruct their parents. And till then, I have been trying to tell him this philosophy, read this book and hear this talk and he was not interested at all. Then after that, the main thing I did is that I just once took him to a temple and then he met people of his age group, same background and he started socialising with them and now loves to go to the temple.
So, all that I did was, get out of the way. But sometimes, we think that I have to be the way for this person to come to Krishna. It may not be.
So, for each one of us, then see what happens when we are relating with, when we are when some close family member is there, then there are three things going on over there. One is our relationship with Krishna, second is our relationship with them and third is their relationship with Krishna. So, now if you consider among these three, in terms of priority, everything is of course important, but if you want to consider in terms of priority, we have our relationship with Krishna and we have our relationship with them.
Both are important. And we also want them to develop a relationship with Krishna. But sometimes what happens when we start practising bhakti, there is something called new convert zeal.
When anybody starts adopting a practise new, there is one devotee, one Shila Prabhupada was telling me that, when we came to Krishna consciousness, we thought in a few weeks, we are going to take over the world. And in a few months, we are all going to become pure devotees and go back to God. That was the idea.
So, there is a new convert zeal is there. So, what happens, we need to first of all have a human connection with the people around us. And then we have a spiritual connection with Krishna.
Now, we want to also make our connection with people spiritual. With our loved ones also, we want to make it spiritual. But to make the connection spiritual means to add something to the human connection.
Not to subtract from the human connection. What do I mean by subtract from the human connection? This is a classic example of saying the right thing at the wrong time. We were doing some college programmes and there was a Bhagavatam class going on in the temple.
At that time, there was a Chitraketu pastime going on. Chitraketu story is where there is a famous king, Chitraketu and he has a son who dies as a small baby. And then the mystical power is brought back and then he speaks philosophy.
And he says that, you know, I have you are saying that you are lamenting, I am your son and you are my parents. He says, which father are you talking about? I have been through so many lifetimes and I have had so many parents. And so, there was this engineering college student who heard this class and on vacations, he went home.
And his parents were so happy to see him. And his mother made nice food. And he said, you know, don't show me so much affection.
He says, you know, I have had so many mothers and so many fathers. So, now the spiritual connection is meant to add to the human connection. There is a natural reciprocation between family members.
And our spirituality should strengthen the relationship, not damage the relationship. Now, of course, if two people are spiritually different, then they have to come to a mutual understanding, okay, this is the way I want to live, this is the way I want to live. Let's see how we can negotiate it.
But it's not that because of our spirituality, we just dehumanise all our relationships. When we start doing that, we are reducing spirituality to ritualism. This is how we should do.
If we don't do this, I am not going to do this. No, not like that. So, if you understand this point, that everybody is at a particular level.
So, then this boy came and talked with me and I told him that, actually, how long did it take for you to accept the philosophy? He said, it took me almost 8-9 months. And how many classes must you have heard? I said, almost 100 classes in many classes. Talked with many devotees.
He said, it took you this much time to accept this philosophy. And you are going home and you are changing the whole dynamics of your relationship with your parents in a few minutes. How do you expect that to work? So, now, there is a human connection which needs to be preserved.
So, in terms of priority, say, if our family members are not practising bhakti, Krishna has given everyone free will. We shouldn't think that we are greater than Krishna and we can force someone to do something. It will not work for very long.
So, the first thing we should do is, if we can arrive at some understanding by which at least our family members don't oppose our spiritual practises. I have my relationship with Krishna, I have my relationship with you. And that itself is a good starting point.
And nowadays, especially, there is a lot of autonomy for people given. And as long as we don't impose our practises on others, then if we give others their space, they will give us our space. So, the first thing we should do is, we make sure that our practise goes on.
Say, if somebody is staying here in America and when they go to home, go home for a few days or a few weeks in a year. And then maybe there at home, different worship is happening. We don't have to start telling them, oh, this worship is not the right thing to do.
You should do this and you should do that. Now, we are practising spiritual life maybe for 50 weeks a year peacefully here. And two weeks we go over there and we do a Kurukshetra over there.
And then after that, the remaining 50 weeks also, the embers of that Kurukshetra war are going on in our heart. We won't be able to practise Bhakti. Bhaktivinoda Thakur says in Chaitanya Shiksha Amrit that a devotee's heart is in the festivals which are glorifying the Lord Krishna.
But he says a devotee may join in other festivals also if it is required for social purposes. Say, for example, there can be the national day of the country, there can be some other days, if certain things are expected for a devotee. Or if a particular form of celebration is done in the society, then he says that for the sake of society, a devotee's heart is not in those things, but a devotee doesn't have to deliberately defy those things.
A devotee practises, a devotee doesn't, just continues one's own practise of Bhakti with the heart, but just goes along with society. We see this in Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's case also. When Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was in Jagannath Puri, he did not disturb the minds of the officials of Jagannath Puri temple.
He did not insist that Aridas Thakur has to be brought in the temple. He just, okay, let that, let's practise Bhakti together. So the idea is, these three things I said, that we have our connection with Krishna, at the first level, make sure that our connection with Krishna goes on.
And don't do anything which will create so much agitation in the human connection, that your spiritual connection stops. Then after that, what do we do? Once we are maintaining our spiritual connection, the world doesn't care how many rounds we chant, the world doesn't care how many shlokas we have memorised, the world doesn't care how much, how much, at what level we fast on Ekadashi. Ultimately the world cares about how we behave.
Don't tell me what you believe, show me how you behave. What does this mean? Of course whatever philosophical understanding is there is important. But for people, what do they see? When Prabhupada was asked, how do we know your followers? Prabhupada said, they are perfect gentlemen, perfect ladies and perfect gentlemen.
Because people are not going to, oh, you wake up at 4 o'clock every morning, okay, that's good, so what? So, what they're going to say is, how do you behave with them? So what we need to see is, if our spiritual connection with Krishna can make us a better human being in that relationship. That means, if I'm a parent, if I'm a child, if I'm a spouse, if I become more understanding, more tolerant, more sensitive, more, basically if the other person sees that I am changing for the better by this, then there's no preaching as powerful as that. So, instead of trying to tell people what to do, if we show that how Krishna consciousness has changed us, if somebody is short-tempered and they learn to, their temper comes more in control, oh, really, this Krishna Bhakti stuff seems to be working for you, let me also explore it.
So, what we try to do is, we establish, we keep our spiritual connections safe, and we try to, at the human level, connect better with them. And then that will attract them. And how they attract, that is where Krishna is.
From there, they take one step forward. One step forward. We don't have to necessarily give them the full programme.
Whatever they take, let them take forward. And gradually, what we should see is, where is this person and what is this one step I can get them forward. One step, one step, one step forward.
So, Prabhupada was once in in America and the devotees had a small centre, which was like a it was like a condo. So, on one side, the devotees' room was there. Other side, there was an old lady staying.
And this old lady was complaining to the local municipal authorities that, oh, these hippies, they make so much noise, they sing so loudly and they are so disruptive. And the devotees were having a lot of difficulty in doing their programmes and doing their kirtans. Now, whenever a devotee finds somebody opposing them, devotees often have a simple solution.
They are demons. We demonise anyone who is opposing us. So, the devotees, Prabhupada said, Prabhupada, you know, our neighbour is such a demoniac lady.
She opposes our kirtans. And they had gone for a morning walk. And Prabhupada came back.
Instead of going to this side of the temple, Prabhupada went there and knocked on the door. And then he greeted her and Prabhupada started talking with her. And throughout, Prabhupada is like typical old people's talk.
How is your health? Where are your children? What did you do? How are things going on? Just a nice 10-15 minutes of Prabhupada talk. And the devotees were waiting. When will Prabhupada tell her about Krishna and chant Hare Krishna? Prabhupada did not speak one word like that.
And in a very cordial note, they ended and Prabhupada walked away. The devotees had a big question mark on their face. No preaching.
And Prabhupada said, sometimes, old people become lonely. And that makes them irritable. That's all Prabhupada spoke.
And then Swamiji, Prabhupada went away and the next day, the devotees were going out. This lady was walking over there. She said, your Swami is such a nice person.
And she went to the local authority. She withdrew all her complaints from there. So, Prabhupada brought this lady closer to Krishna without speaking one word about Krishna.
So, the point is, for those who are ritualistic, their idea of preaching is they have one programme and everybody is just an object for downloading that programme. No, it's not like that. Everybody is at a different place and we have to see where they are at and then connect them accordingly.
So, if you understand what place they are at, from there, they can take one step forward. They can take one step forward. So, this is, I'll conclude with one last story.
I talk about this principle. Understand where people are at and help them take one step forward. So, Prabhupada saw this old lady.
She may not be a bhakti, but at least, let her appreciate devotees. So, last time, did I tell the story here about the robotics, the parents? No. Okay.
So, I was staying at one devotee's house in America and their son would be 8-10 years old. He's brilliant at robotics. He makes his own robots.
And their parents are very serious devotees and they were telling that till the age of 5 or 6, our son would also come to the temple and he would also chant and sing and then he discovered robotics. Now, all day, he's just reading about robots, making robots. He's won some awards at national level also because of that.
Brilliant! So, then what do we… But he's not interested in Krishna at all. Then, I started talking with this brilliant boy and asked him, how do you get your ideas for making robots? So, he said, mostly, we make robots which can lift weights quickly. Most of the robotics is currently fuelled by Amazon.
They want to use robots for packing and moving things. So, he said. Then he showed me some of the robot model which he had made.
And I said, so, are you ideas… if somebody makes a new kind of model, new robot, is that appreciated? He said, yes. That's innovation. So, I said that, maybe you can make a robot of Krishna and Arjuna.
They're discussing and speaking the Bhagavad Gita. He looked at me and said, no. And he walked away.
And he was talking with his parents and after a few minutes, he came back. Actually, no one else will make anything like that. Sounds like a good idea.
And then, after a month or so, his parents called me and they said, now he's so eagerly reading the Bhagavad Gita. Not to know what Krishna says, but to know how he can make his robot say that. So, the idea here is that if he has a particular interest, it's not that your interest, just give it up and become interested in Krishna.
We have to find out if this is the circle of their interest and this is the circle of bhakti. We have to find out where the circle intersects. And that requires understanding people.
If we think of people simply as, I'm going to download a programme on them. And then, what we speak will be nowhere in their circle of interest. And then, they will not be able to connect at all.
So, if we do this, they are at this place right now and they can visit the place. They may not be interested in chanting. That's okay at that stage.
But at his place, from his place, at his place. At least he's reading the Bhagavad Gita. He's depicting the Bhagavad Gita.
So many people who never read the Bhagavad Gita, they will hear the Bhagavad Gita through a robot. So, he's doing service. So, he's accessing the grace of Krishna and he's sharing the grace of Krishna.
So, for each one of us, Krishna Consciousness is actually, if we truly understand this principle, then Krishna Consciousness becomes an adventure. It is not just a set of rules that have been followed, but it is an adventure of how we can raise our consciousness and how we can help others to raise their consciousness. And we all can be put in very difficult situations.
I mean, we ourselves are in difficult situations. I mean, others are in very difficult situations. It might seem that Krishna Consciousness is inaccessible.
But, it's never inaccessible. We just have to expand our understanding of what Krishna Consciousness is. And wherever they are at, from there, take one step forward.
Take one step forward. And, when we do this, we'll find that whoever we connect with, some of them may be serious enough to take up Krishna Consciousness seriously. Others, you know, they don't take it up.
At least, they develop an appreciation. Oh, yeah, this, this. They're good people.
What do you say? Okay. I don't want to follow it, but it makes sense. So, if people get appreciation for some aspect of Krishna Consciousness, that is also a step forward.
Of course, if somebody wants to take it further ahead, we can help them. We can also push them. Sometimes, we have to push people.
But, how much do we push people? That depends on whether they want to be pushed or not. It's like, suppose, in India, sometimes it happens that they're trying to drive a car and the car doesn't start. Does it happen here also? I think that may happen.
But, the second part is when people from nearby come and they push the car from outside. At least, I have not seen it happening here in America. Does it happen here? It happens here also? People come and push also? Oh, that's good.
So, so then, if somebody is pushing the car from outside, the person from inside is trying to drive the car and then the car starts and they all move. That's good. Sometimes, the car needs to be pushed.
But, suppose people from outside are pushing the car and the person inside has gone to sleep. Then, the people outside, why should we push? Or, worse still, that people from outside are pushing the car and the person from inside is pressing the brake. Then, all the pushing is useless.
So, everybody needs a little pushing to come toward Krishna. But, they need to have at least 1% desire and we can do 99% pushing. But, if they have almost like 0% desire and we are doing 100% pushing, then that pushing will not push them toward Krishna.
That pushing will push them away from Krishna. Still, why are you forcing me like this? So, we need to see, rather than forcing people to move toward Krishna, somehow spark their interest in Krishna. And then, from there, we can gently prod them onwards or sometimes firmly push them onwards.
But, we have to understand where they are at. So, we have concern for people and we have concern for practise. If they do this, they will become better.
They will become purer, they will become happier. But, the important thing is, it's voluntary. The purpose is to raise their consciousness.
Purpose is not just to get them to do certain things. So, if they can appreciate and do those things, then that will help them move forward. So, even if with appreciation they are doing a small thing, that is better than with imposition they are doing a big thing till eventually they rebel and go away.
So, Krishna accommodates people at different levels. Krishna gives facility for somebody to take the fast track back to home and somebody is not able to take the fast track, Krishna gives them slower tracks also. So, similarly, we can also see where people are at and expertly help them move forward in their spiritual life.
So, I'll summarise. I spoke today about this theme of, from your place, at your pace, access is grace. So, I talked of how, when we are trying to practise or share Krishna Consciousness with others, we need to understand what we are doing and how best to do it.
So, I talked about these four categories of people. Krishna says, everybody is on my path. What does it mean? It means that everybody is on a journey of consciousness and there are people and there are practises.
So, those who have no care for people and no concern for practises also, they are nihilists. They are people who are out to, they are like cynics who have no faith in the medicine and no desire to cure people also. Then there are people who are relativists.
There is so much concern about people's feelings that they will believe anything they add, they will accept anything and everything. So, these are, I talked about, relativism is just not true because if somebody is a terrorist killing innocent people, we don't accept it to be right. And these are like a surgeon who is so worried about causing any pain to the patient that refuses to do a surgery.
Then there are ritualists who are very concerned about the procedures and practises but no concern for people. It's like a surgeon who follows the protocol but doesn't consider the specific case. Operation successful, patient dead.
And then I talked about the spiritualists are those who have concern for processes and they have concern for people. But both these concerns are united in the purpose of helping people raise their consciousness. So, this is how the fourth level is what we need to be.
Krishna talks about how Krishna talks about 326, just gently lift people up and 1866 give up everything and just surrender to him. So, Prabhupada did both according to context. In America, it was largely just give up everything.
In India, it was just take one step forward by contributing for Krishna's cause. And today our movement is somewhere in between. So, we have to find out how best we can connect ourselves and connect others toward Krishna.
And then I talked elaborately about one principle. If say if somebody in our family does not practise bhakti, then what do we do? Three dynamics. First is make sure our relationship with Krishna is maintained.
Then don't lose the human connect with them. Rather, if that human connection becomes better, if they say we have become better human being, that is the strongest way of reaching out to them. Don't tell me what you believe.
Show me how you behave. And then, as far as connecting them with Krishna is concerned, we have to understand where they are and show them a step forward. Sharing Krishna consciousness is not like downloading a programme.
It is showing people a path from where they are. I talked about how bhakti says that a devotee may, in order to not disturb people's minds, may also participate sometimes in non-devotional festivals. But the heart is not in it.
I talked about how Prabhupada was able to get this lady to appreciate Krishna without speaking one word about Krishna. And I talked about the robotics example that instead of telling people what to do, understand what they are doing and try to show how that can be, see how it can be connected with Krishna. Their circle of interest, the circle of bhakti, find out something in common and take them forward from there.
So, we need to push everyone sometimes. But, it's like somebody's car doesn't move. They want to move, but the car is not moving.
Then we can push it from outside. But if their car doesn't want to move and if you push them, then that pushing will not push them toward Krishna. It will push them away from Krishna.
So, rather than pushing people, try to spark some interest and then they will move forward in their spiritual life. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
Do we have time for questions? Yeah, any questions? Yes, please. Prabhu, thank you so much. I think that your talk has clarified the point that Krishna Consciousness is a matter of common sense.
Because every point that you made is a matter of common sense. But beautifully organised and beautifully presented. Thank you so much.
I want to ask you a question on behalf of a new devotee who I think is probably thinking perhaps to ask this question but may feel a little shy. There is a devotee here. His name is Bhakti Iyan.
He is a avid skateboarder. And I think that he would like to know how he can dovetail his skateboarding and hold him on the way. I think that you may be able to answer that question.
So, if somebody is an avid skateboarder, how do they dovetail that in Krishna's service? Broadly, our various interests, they can be classified in three categories. Something which is pro-devotional, something which is non-devotional and something which is anti-devotional. Anti-devotional means somebody says, okay, my interest is slaughtering animals.
Nobody has that interest. I am just giving an extreme example. Then, that is life.
You cannot do that. There are certain things which we may not be able to dovetail. Some are pro-devotional.
Somebody has an interest in music. Then, they may use that form of music and use it for spiritual purposes. Some might be non-devotional.
There are two different ways of looking at this. One is that whatever we are doing, we try to connect it with Krishna. So, for example, skateboarding, it may not be directly connectable with Krishna.
It's a sport. But, sometimes, as Krishna says, give the fruits of the work to me. That means, if you are a skateboarder, if you are with that kind of friends, and then maybe if we are practising our bhakti, maybe those people will never come to your temple.
But, we just continue our bhakti practise and then use whatever we are doing as a platform for connecting the people over there with Krishna. There was one devotee. He was in the US Army.
And, before he was in the US Army, then he became a devotee and he wanted to leave. The spiritual master told him, no, if that's your job, as Arjuna was doing your duty, you continue your duty. Then, he was sent to the Middle East.
Iraq, Afghanistan. And, he was initially thinking, this is all political. This is all mundane politics.
I don't want to be involved in this. But, it was his job. He went there.
And then, while he was there, he was a squadron leader. And, many times, because he had this philosophical understanding that we are not the body, we are the soul. So, he would, in his mind, he would chant the names of Krishna.
And, several times, because the jihadists or whoever were there, the insurgents, they were outnumbered. So, they were all guerrilla attacks, sudden ambushes. So, there was a lot of tension in the American camp.
So, through several close shaves, he managed to lead them expertly. And, they survived. So, after one particularly close shave, one of his colleagues asked him, how do you stay so cool? And then, as he was about to answer, he said that, I got the answer why Krishna sent me here.
Because, here, because they were right on the border of life or death when he told them. I understand that I am not the body, I am a soul, indestructible spiritual being. And, because they were there encountering death and thinking about this, they were receptive.
And then, after that, he started he started speaking to them and he was good at music. So, he started doing in the, I think it was in Iraq, he started doing like kirtans, music nights in the American cantonment. And then, that became so popular over there that many many people would come.
And, every time when he would go for his like some, an operation, he would give like a spiritual pep talk. You know, in life or death, we are souls. And then, all these soldiers with their American uniforms and helmets, just before going to the battlefield, he would put Gangajal on them.
He would put sacred water of the Ganges on them to sanctify them before they went. And, it seems that, actually in many of the Islamic countries, they don't allow public practise of any other religion. So, Iraq is quite hostile to other religious practises.
But, in the American cantonment, they, in Iraq, did the first Rath Yatra over there, in the cantonment itself. So, now, he had no idea that all these things would open up at that time. So, the point is that, sometimes, what we are doing may not be directly connectable with Krishna at that time.
But, we do our duty and sometimes Krishna may open the doors. So, when Arjuna, if you consider, when Arjuna was training in archery, at that time there was a famous incident, when all of Drona's students were asked to shoot at an image of a bird and they had to shoot at the eye. So, he asked everyone, what do you see? And some of them said, oh, we see this tree.
Some of them said, we see the branch. It came to Arjuna. Arjuna says, I see nothing except the eye of the bird.
Now, we give this example to show how Arjuna was single pointed and focused. But to take it from my other perspective, Arjuna does not say over there, oh, I see Krishna over there. When he is doing his archery, he is doing it wholeheartedly.
He is doing it for Krishna. And he didn't know at that time that in future, there will be a war which has to be fought for the sake of dharma and to further Krishna's cause, my archery will be used at that time. But what he was doing, he did it well.
And similarly, if we are in a particular area in our life, we do it well. Our abilities are ultimately gifts from Krishna. Paurusham rishu, Krishna says.
I am ability in human being. And Krishna says, Jayosmi Vedasavayosmi. I am victory, I am adventure.
So, everyone's deepest experience is their experience of Krishna. Even if they don't know it. Everyone's deepest experience.
Somebody is playing music. You might call it mundane music. But they get lost rehearsing for hours to try to get it right.
William Wordsworth, a famous British writer, he said in one of his letters that, I spend my morning very productively on one of my new poems. After breakfast, I did a comma. Before lunch, I deleted that comma.
Now, you may say, for hours you are thinking about one comma? What is a comma, you know? But he was absorbed, reciting it in different ways. So, what are they experiencing over there? So, Krishna says, everything attractive in this world is a manifestation of my splendour. So, whatever anybody is experiencing very deeply, that is their experience of Krishna.
So, an author, when they get absorbed in writing, they are actually experiencing Krishna. They may not realise it. So, I talk about this path of consciousness.
So, Krishna is at the summit of this path of consciousness. But, wherever our consciousness is attracted, at all those places, also it is manifestations of Krishna. Everything attractive comes from Krishna.
But, everything attractive may not take us to Krishna. But if you understand it, this attractiveness of this is also coming from Krishna. Prabhupada is so inclusive in his book, On the Way to Krishna, he says that, if somebody is an alcoholic, and they just can't give up alcoholism, let them think that the taste of alcohol is Krishna.
And, he says, by thinking like this, now Krishna is, Prabhupada is extending Krishna's statement in the Bhagavad Gita, the taste of water, I am the taste of water. I am the taste of alcohol, Krishna is saying. Now, Prabhupada is saying that, if they think like this, one day, one day they will become a great devotee.
He is not saying that drinking alcohol they will become a great devotee. By thinking about Krishna, even while drinking alcohol. So, if something is very strongly attracting us, and if it is not directly connectable with Krishna, if you understand, this is also an experience of Krishna.
But this is a spark. And Krishna is the whole. Now, because of my present psychophysical nature, I may experience this spark much more powerfully than how I experience the whole.
But as I become purified, how much more, if this can give me so much absorption, if this can bring so much excitement, if this can give me so much thrill in my life, then, how much more can the whole give me? So, basically, three things I talked about. First is, if we can somehow directly connect with Krishna, if we can't, we can use the social position and whatever comes from that to connect with Krishna. And also, when we are getting absorbed in it, instead of simply dismissing it as mundane, we try to understand that attractiveness of this attractive thing is coming from Krishna.
And we, in that way, remember Krishna while doing that thing, and Krishna may open some opportunities of how to dovetail that interest in His service. So, thank you very much. Krishna Prabhupada ki Gaura Bhakta Vrinda ki Gaura Premananda hi.