Gita lite 5 – Chps 12-15

[Online course on Bhagavad-gita]

Video:

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
thank you so much so thank you for joining today and I am going to speak today on the chapters of the Bhagavad Gita 12 to 15 and within these chapters I will be focussing primarily on the theme of the flow of the Bhagavad Gita onwards so the Bhagavad Gita begins with Arjuna asking what should I do and to help Arjuna answer this question Krishna raises his vision first from the body to the soul and it has become detached from the body and material things and then you will be able to act wisely and then from the 7th chapter onwards Krishna lifts his vision further from the soul to the supreme soul to Krishna himself and then in these chapters the focus is that more effective than trying to detach oneself from matter is trying to attach oneself to the divine to Krishna and that was the focus and that focus is going to be concluded in the 12th chapter of course that continues the theme continues but the focus shifts basically within reality there are 3 ingredients that is matter spirit and the divine so we can call this MSc get a master in science degree MSc is matter spirit and consciousness in fact that will be the theme of the 13th chapter so the 12th chapter is a section where the focus is on attaching oneself to the divine and after that now we may understand ourselves as souls we may understand ourselves as parts of the divine we focus on the divine try to get attached to the divine but eventually we have to act in the world and we have to interact with matter also so how do we view matter and how do we function within the world of matter that’s what will be discussed in the last 6 chapters of the Gita chapters 13 to 18 so let’s go over the 12th chapter the 11th chapter ended with Krishna exhibiting first his universal form and then then returning to his two handed form and Krishna tells Arjuna that actually among all forms the sight darshan of the universal form is rare but rarer still is the darshan of the form of form of Krishna as a two handed form so now at this point Arjuna actually gets a question that there are broadly two kinds of person two kinds of spiritualists there are personalists and there are impersonalists impersonalists are those who consider that the personal manifestation of the Lord is the ultimate manifestation and impersonalists are those who consider the impersonal manifestation to be the greatest so now the question comes up which is better who are more intimately united with the divine and Krishna answers unequivocally unequivocally first he says that actually he begins the answer by giving the answer then he explains the answer and then he ends the answer by reiterating the answer so Krishna is quite emphatic in this chapter Arjuna’s question comes in 12.1 and in 12.2 Krishna says that evam satata yukta ye bhakta sthom pari paasate ye chaapya aksharam avyaktam te shyam ke yogam itta maham in Arjuna’s who among the two are better so Arjuna Krishna says itta yukta paasate shraddhaya pariyo pe taas te me yukta tamo mataham he says those who fix their consciousness on me they are the most devoted to me and on me in my personal form and then Krishna says that those who worship the impersonal they also grow spiritually they also ultimately attain spiritual reality but in 12.5 he says that the path is very difficult kalishyo adhiktaras te shyam avyakta sattacetasam avyakta higate dukkham dehavad deravapate he says that it’s very difficult now why is it difficult because activity is natural for each one of us inactivity is unnatural and therefore the path of impersonalism where we consider all activity to be illusion all forms to be illusion all relationships to be illusion all personalities to be illusion and we want to merge into the infinity of oneness that may seem very attractive proposition for someone who is who has had lot of problems and just wants to get away from them sometimes when we have lot of relationship issues just leave me alone and we may genuinely feel I just want to be left alone but if people left us alone permanently we wouldn’t want that I want to be with people I want to talk with at that time it’s a reaction so I may have given this example earlier that a person is sick and is in pain so they have arthritis and because of arthritis every movement that they make they move their hand they move their leg it causes them pain and they think that if I could just stop moving I would be so peaceful now it’s true I could be pain free if I could stop moving but as soon as they become pain free immediately they want to start moving because movement is a natural condition we are meant to do so many things in life that’s where our energy is so the cause of the pain is being misdiagnosed over here the cause of the pain is not the is not movement the cause of the pain is the disease the movement is the stimulus that brings about the activation of the pain but the cause is deeper so the disease needs to be cured similarly many of us may have had negative experiences with our with impersonal relationships we get attracted to forms and then we become crashing down and the forms are temporary in the world the relationships are temporary so I just don’t want to have anything to do with this so the problem is it’s a misdiagnosis the problem is not with form, personality or relationships or even with the desires the problem is with that it’s all in a disease direction we are seeking in the material and the temporary that which is to be found only in the spiritual and the eternal so we can say that there is a, if we have a y axis there is a point of zero there is negative axis and there is positive axis so the negative axis is material form, material desires, material relationships material, it would say worldly or self-centred where we get attached to that which is temporary, we get attached for the sake of our own pleasure and we get attached to things which eventually are not going to last the way they are initially, so that is negative axis and now we want to get out of the negative axis but formlessness impersonalism this is a desirelessness all these are like from the negative axis you come to this zero point point of origin but then from there, there is a positive axis and that positive axis is spiritual forms, spiritual relationships spiritual personality spiritual desires so Krishna says that form, personality desires, all these are natural for us and if we try to get rid of them, try to suppress them then unnaturalness is difficult so on one side he says it is difficult, that is 12.5 and 12.6 and 12.7 he says actually if we try to connect with Krishna in his personal manifestation then he personally intervenes in our life and the way he intervenes in our life is by giving us the opportunity to purify ourselves to elevate ourselves and he also personally gives us his mercy by uplifting us so 12.6 and 12.7 talk about that where Krishna says that if you devote yourself to me it won’t be just you trying to elevate yourself I will uplift you so it’s somebody trying to swim in the ocean and trying to come to the land and somebody comes and lifts them out and takes them to the land a ship comes up or a helicopter comes up the effort becomes much lesser so in the personal manifestation on one side it is natural and another side in the personal, worshipping the personal manifestation of the divine also gives us access to the grace of the divine in the impersonal vision there is no personal manifestation there is no possibility of getting grace this is of course an elaborate subject but this is the gist of what Krishna talks about here in the first 7 verses of the Gita in the 12th chapter then 8 to 12 he talks about something else he says that okay he is talking about how bhakti is the zenith bhakti, loving devotion to a personal manifestation is the zenith is the summit, is the pinnacle but if somebody cannot be at the pinnacle then how do they access it so we could say that Krishna has led the Bhagavad Gita on a trajectory say from attachment to matter to attachment to spirit, from attachment to spirit to attachment to the supreme spirit, to the divine and then the pure attachment to the divine and then after that now he says okay you don’t have to go through this whole process of first detaching yourself from matter, detaching, analysing spirit and then moving towards the supreme spirit, there is another way so in a sense this is a slow talk like a staircase you take long long time to get to the top of a skyscraper or the top of a mountain and then when you are there at the top of the mountain you realise that actually there is also an elevator and the elevator can take you rapidly up so the elevator is that Krishna says you can practise bhakti at multiple levels so if you can just absorb yourself naturally in me out of love, that’s wonderful, if you can’t then strive to love me strive to practise bhakti and if you can’t do that then just work for me and do service to me, if you can’t do that then work for a selfless cause at least get out of yourself start thinking of something higher than yourself so in a sense Krishna is extending a ladder down, if you can’t fit at this level fit at this level, if you can’t fit at this level fit at this level, so the idea is God doesn’t here offer like my way or the highway approach, some traditions have the idea that if you are not following us then you are going to go to hell but Krishna says no if you can’t follow me at this particular level, follow at this level and that way you can keep moving onwards I’ll come to this theme once again but then after from 13 to 20 Krishna speaks about when we are practising bhakti how can we know who is a devotee at one level we can say somebody who loves Krishna but how do we really know that somebody loves Krishna love in an inner emotion is there in the heart and we see that Arjuna is in a setting where he has to function in the world, Arjuna is called upon by duty to be a martial guardian of society and fight so at this stage simply his absorption in Krishna his love for Krishna that is not so immediately relevant to his setting he has to function in his social role of course in a devotional mode it’s a functional social role so Krishna says that devotion also means that in the world we function in a way that is calm equipoised, gentle non-agitating responsible, self-controlled Krishna has various virtues if you see these virtues which he talks about from 12, 13 to 20 they are largely centred on on we could say cultured behaviour gentlemanly, courteous attractive behaviour so the idea is Krishna, we can’t use devotion as justification for behaving irresponsibly or insensitively or inappropriately devotion also manifests in appropriate behaviour in the world and then last what Krishna says that okay even if one doesn’t have these virtues right now, if they are just practising bhakti that itself is also glorious because they are being elevated by their own practises they are moving towards developing and growing in their lives by their practises so that’s what Krishna is focussing on over here, in this context so let’s look at the 12th chapter so here this is 12, 9 and 10, this is a Gita Delhi article, like earlier I put a quote over here so I have thought over here that strive more for the gift of presence than the presence of gifts the gift of presence, that means that we can serve God at different levels and ultimately what God wants most is our heart, the gift of presence, so suppose we are talking with someone now at one level something which we can all give to somebody else is attention if you just hear them what they are speaking, they feel valued now we may want to give, we may actually be working only for them actually they may want to talk with us and we may say I am talking on the phone just get your work done on me, that’s good but if they want to talk with us for them to be heard may be important so for Krishna sometimes we may get too caught in the mode of working, I’ll do this I’ll do that, I’ll do that and we may think okay by doing this service I can do a lot for Krishna or if I do this then I can earn a lot of money then I can give a big donation to Krishna now yes if we have some resources, some inspiration some aspirations we can definitely use them in Krishna’s service but we have to know what Krishna wants the most Krishna wants us the most Krishna doesn’t want the things we give him Krishna wants us to give ourselves to him and that’s why we need to focus on whenever we are we are practising bhakti, we try to be present for Krishna we try to be in the presence so that we can give ourselves to Krishna and we give ourselves by giving our consciousness there is spontaneous devotion that we naturally love Krishna and naturally absorb in him and below that is conscientious devotion where even if we can’t spontaneously absorb we strive to be absorbed and by being absorbed thus we grow so Krishna tells Arjuna get your hierarchy right make sure that your purpose is clear, remember your purpose and then work on the process it’s like when we are driving driving expertly is important but before we drive expertly we need enough expertise to know where we are driving and to check whether we are driving in the right direction somebody may follow all the traffic rules stop at the right signal, stay within the speed limit but if they don’t have a map they don’t know where they are going then following the rules alone is not going to take them to the destination otherwise on the extreme is go to the destination but don’t follow the rules that’s also not good we have to follow the rules but we have to drive purposefully so when we are driving first thing is to know the purpose then is to know the process I am in India, I have to drive on this side of the road I am in America, I have to drive on that side of the road that’s fine but the important thing is where do I want to drive so in bhakti there are various services we can do there are various spiritual practises that we can follow the key thing is that our purpose is to offer our heart to Krishna, our consciousness to Krishna sometimes we get so attached to doing a particular service that we get obsessed with it and then we start yelling at those who we feel are obstructing us in their service we start becoming disagreeable and then when that happens then are we really is our consciousness even offerable to Krishna consciousness filled with resentment and irritation and then in that situation how is it worthwhile to we have to get our priorities right recognising that I have to make sure that my consciousness is offerable to Krishna that means it is devotional it is favourable, it is grateful it is humble occasionally of course to get things done sometimes we have to be assertive sometimes we have to be strong habitually our consciousness shouldn’t be negative or resentful if we are having so many services that so many things to do that is making us resentful and then when we are directly coming to Krishna to offer ourselves we are not in the devotional receptive mood then we may have to do certain adjustments so that we can offer ourselves to Krishna better so in the hierarchy best is just love Krishna and be absorbed in him second is strive to offer your mind to Krishna if you can’t offer your mind to Krishna then offer the body to Krishna that means do services for Krishna either by directly coming to a spiritual centre and offering some services or working at our jobs and then giving the fruit of our charity, fruit of our labour a charity to Krishna there are various levels at which we can connect that’s the 12th chapter so let’s move on to the 13th chapter now 13th chapter as I said it begins with quite technical things it focusses on the study of matter and how somebody who is aware of their soul somebody who is attached to the supreme soul how will they function in the world so Arjuna asks six questions over here as I mentioned earlier that after the 10th chapter more or less if you consider Bhagavad Gita to be a class the class has ended with the 10th chapter and after that it’s all a question and answer session so 12th chapter is a question, 13th chapter is also a question is also a question and here what is Arjuna doing so suppose we are we have been hearing some spiritual subjects for a good amount of time but then we come to a particular speaker’s class and that speaker’s explanations are very good things which have been fuzzy for us are becoming very clear and we love the explanations then we will take the opportunity to not only address questions specifically related to the class but also general terms that we may have heard earlier so what does this term mean can you explain this, we’ll ask so we will try to get an understanding of terms that we are familiar with but we are not clear about and if the speaker is really an expert the speaker will explain those terms but won’t go completely off on a tangent to explain those terms the speaker is given a particular class on a particular topic the speaker may address our question and also integrate the answer to that question in the thought flow of what they were speaking we’ll connect that answer with the theme so that’s what Krishna does over there Arjuna first asks questions about the six terms which are well known in broadly in Vedic parlance in the philosophical spiritual circles of his times and he wants to get a clear understanding what do these terms mean and for that purpose he starts by saying that and Krishna is answering Krishna integrates the answers into his thought flow which is going on in the Gita so Arjuna asks questions about six terms Kshetra, Kshetragya, Jnana, Jnana Prakriti and Purusha so that is Kshetra and Kshetragya’s field and the knower of the field and there is knowledge and the object of knowledge and there is matter and there is consciousness, Prakriti and Purusha so the whole Bhagavad Gita’s 13th chapter is more or less an answer to these questions so first Kshetra and Kshetra Kshetra refers to the field of activity all of us say we have our body and whatever we do first we do it in the body and then we do it through the body say if I am to speak to you I am giving this class so what am I doing first actually I am uttering words and by uttering these words I am speaking at the level of the body and then the bodily action gets manifested many of you have any questions some of you may ask some questions if I tell someone can you please get this then they get it so basically the body is our field of action and we are the knower of that field so we are different from the body and we know the body and we act using the body so our field of influence is what is called as Kshetra now the field of its influence it is centred on but is not necessarily limited to the body for example if person A is the is a boss in a particular office then their field of action extends over the office they can order people around and people will obey them but if that person goes to the airport in the airport they can’t order the employees around because that is not their field of action if you consider somebody like the president of America their field of action will be much much bigger because they will be focussing on they have so much more power, more control the field of action can vary but the important thing is that the field of action is different from the action the knower of that field so in a sense this is Kshetra talking about difference between matter and spirit but he talks it in a way over here to stress that that while we are all working in the field of action don’t get so caught in that field that you forget that there is something beyond the field also that there is the conscious being and then after that Krishna talks about from 8 to 12 about Gyan Gyan literally means knowledge but here Krishna uses the word knowledge not just in sense of knowledge as a information about certain things but knowledge in the sense of transformation and the virtues that bring about transformation historically there have been different understandings of knowledge if you consider Socrates and Plato thereafter knowledge is virtue that means if a person has knowledge they actually manifest in their big virtues so as centuries pass Francis Bacon who was one of the pillars of the scientific method and one of the pioneers in study of science he redefined knowledge as power knowledge is power the idea was knowledge is scientific or technological knowledge by which we could gain power to mould the outer world according to our will and today when we talk about knowledge somebody got a degree then we are largely operating in that sense of knowledge is power so if somebody has mechanical engineering degree then they can they can operate machines at least they should be able to sometimes people have degrees without that expertise but we talk about knowledge largely in terms of the knowledge of a particular area in the outer world which gives us power over the day this is knowledge it is not the only knowledge when Krishna talks about knowledge he is talking about knowledge in terms of virtues there is a remarkable similarity between the teachings of Socrates and say the Bhagavad Gita’s thoughts there are some historians who say that the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita and the Vedic teachings based broadly were taken by some immigrants from India to the west and through some unknown tradition they were available to Greek philosophers like Socrates when he is about to be killed at that time the reasons he gives for the existence of the soul that he is indestructible they are remarkably similar to what is there in the Bhagavad Gita so we are not here talking about cross cultural similarities and historical origins of those similarities but the point I am making here is that conceptually the idea that knowledge is measured in terms of virtues is not as unfamiliar or strange as it might seem that say for example a doctor a doctor is known at one level by how competent they are in giving medicines in prescribing the right medicine to cure the particular disease that they have but along with that a doctor should also have compassion a doctor should see a patient’s sickness as a tool to make money from that if the doctor starts seeing that and starts making unnecessary referrals unnecessary prescriptions then the doctor instead of doing service is doing disservice so it is not that knowledge is not power but in the hierarchy if we consider knowledge as virtue is more important than knowledge as power if somebody has only power and no virtue somebody has the power to cure people’s diseases but they don’t have the virtue of compassion then what they do will be counterproductive what they can do can be counterproductive of course if somebody has only virtue and no power that is also not desirable somebody has compassion but they don’t know actually they have not learned their medical lessons well that’s also not good if you see the Bhagavad Gita is being spoken to Arjuna Arjuna already has competence he is a great archer the greatest archer of his times and Krishna focusses here knowledge especially in terms of virtues so these are the virtues by which one can gain greater spiritual realisation the idea here is that how would a person with knowledge function in the world and how should Arjuna function in the world Krishna says exhibit these virtues so knowledge is explained in terms of virtues in the Bhagavad Gita then we have 13 to 19 where it is called as Gaya Gaya is the object of knowledge so ok we may acquire certain virtues but what is it that we are supposed to know in the world anything can be an object of study we could study something as basic as we could take a say a mic stand somebody can do a PhD in the mic stand ok what should be its weight what should be its length what should be the material that makes it how should it contribute to the aesthetics and acoustics of the room so many things we could study that’s fine it’s useful but the most important knowledge is the knowledge about the ultimate reality there is a conversation of Shri Prabhupada where he says that he asks a professor Professor Benford in Canada what is the current scientific knowledge about the soul Prabhupada says that the scientist says currently there is no knowledge about the soul Prabhupada says then you have no knowledge at all no sorry the scientist says Professor Benford says no but scientific knowledge is of a different category and they are walking in a park for example we Swami we have two large books which explain how this grass grows and Prabhupada replies well even without those books the grass was growing and he says no but why did it if God didn’t want us to study the grass why would he put the grass there Prabhupada says my point is that you study the grass and forget the God who put the grass there if somebody is in a prison they can do a PhD in the kind of bars that are used in the prison the kind of walls that are used in the prison the kind of floor that is used in the prison but the most important is how do you get out of the prison similarly the material world we can know about many many things here but it’s all temporary we are all trapped in the prison of temporariness where we are all subjected to old age disease and death and therefore the important thing is that we learn what is the way out and the way out, the most important knowledge is for getting out is to know what is there out there that means what is the ultimate reality that is out there, suppose somebody is in jail and they want to go out of the jail one main reason they want to go out of the jail is because they remember and desire all the desirable things that are there outside the jail so for us to know what exists beyond the prison of matter and to become attached to that that is the most important knowledge Krishna talks about spiritual reality and he describes it in quite paradoxical and intriguing terms the most worthy object of knowledge for us is the supreme reality because it is that attachment to supreme reality that can get us free from the prison of mortality and after that 20 to 26 in this 13th chapter Krishna talks about prakriti and purusha, this is basically matter and consciousness and here Krishna talks about two categories of consciousness there is finite consciousness and there is infinite consciousness and then he gives various ways in which those souls who are caught in the world of matter can function so that they can become liberated the last section here focusses primarily on how we can how we can look at the world of matter in a way that doesn’t obsess us, that doesn’t entangle us but that helps us to pursue and perceive and pursue the spiritual reality while functioning in the material reality so that is the 13th chapter today we are trying to cover 4 chapters and we started late so I am going a little faster so this is one section from the 13th chapter so one of the things which Krishna says in the bhagavad gita one characteristic of knowledge is if one should see unblinkingly and unflinchingly the distresses of material existence that life is going to end in the graveyard and before the graveyard also there are many yards that are grave yards are distances and graves, we are in the grave condition before that where we have to go through old age we have to go through disease so this is the inevitable end of life for everyone so life is into distress now somebody may say this is pessimistic it’s not pessimistic it’s realistic and suppose somebody is sick they have got cancer and they are in denial of the disease well as long as they are denying the disease they cannot be curing the disease so sometimes the doctor has to give a very grim prognosis to jolt the patient out of that stupor of denial and say this is going to happen, this is going to happen and then the patient says I don’t want this to happen what can I do about it then the doctor outlines the trajectory to the cure sometimes the cure may also be demanding but once the patient has understood how devastating the disease is going to be then the patient becomes ready to take up even the demanding cure similarly for each one of us we need to focus on recognising the distressful nature of material existence and to the extent we recognise that this is the reality of material situation and if we accept that then the Bhagavad Gita is not pessimistic because it says that reality is bigger than our material situation there is matter and there is spirit so there is the disease condition and the disease condition is a little worse the disease condition is attachment to matter, obsession with matter the infatuated infatuation that matter and material things will make us happy but detachment from matter means we start understanding that there is more to reality than the material reality and then we redirect ourselves towards that and that spiritual reality is all attractive it is supremely potent, it is supremely blissful and thus the Bhagavad Gita’s message is initially pessimistic but eventually it is optimistic and sometimes the path to a better life begins with a hard look hard look at the present life we often don’t change unless the price of staying where we are becomes greater than the price of moving to some other place so the price that we will have to pay if we stay where we are when we understand that then we become okay I need to go somewhere else, suppose we are staying in a particular house somewhere and the rent is high over there we are able to pay it but if that rent is going to skyrocket and we don’t bother about it then somebody comes and tells us very strongly, what’s going to happen over here this is how it’s going to I can’t pay this much then I better relocate somewhere else so when the price of staying where we are becomes higher than the price of changing that’s when we change the price of staying in material consciousness in material consciousness means attached to material things the price of that is very high it may not seem high right now but it’s going to become extremely high as we grow older and our bodies lose their capacity to enjoy and then all that the body gives us is distress so once we recognise this price is going to skyrocket then I have to relocate so that’s what the Bhagavad Gita is doing over here and it says one aspect of knowledge is unflinchingly and unblinkingly looking at the distresses of material existence and thereby giving ourselves the necessary impetus to perceive and pursue spiritual existence this is our 13th chapter summary till now does anyone have any questions any questions anyone it is a little disturbance I’ll just be back in a minute so you you so I don’t see any questions I don’t see any raised hands as of now so I’ll continue we move on to the 14th chapter now and the 14th chapter focusses on introducing a new framework for analysing material nature and that framework is called the three modes of material nature that’s the name of the chapter let’s discuss this so broadly there are three sections in this chapter so 1 to 13 is how the soul is conditioned by the modes that is the idea is that the modes are basically subtle forces that shape the interaction between matter and spirit so I won’t go into all the subsections over here initially Krishna glorifies knowledge how the spiritual soul gets entangled with the material body and then he says when we are entangled how are we exactly entangled how are we bound so the modes are subtle forces that shape the interaction between consciousness and matter so the modes can be considered to be like ropes the modes can also be considered to be like windows depending on our glasses you could say so depending on the kind of glass we are wearing if I am wearing a red coloured glass everything I see will seem red if I am wearing a blue coloured glass everything will seem blue so the glasses and the ropes basically we interact with the world in two ways we acquire knowledge from the world and then we act in the world so we have two sets of senses we call them the knowledge acquiring senses, the eyes, the ears the nose, the tongue, the skin through which we get information about the world outside and then we have the working senses through which we act in the world the hands the leg, the power of speech the reproductive organs the excretory organs so through all these we act in the world so basically we perceive the world and we pursue something in the world and the modes affect both the modes are subtle forces that shape the interaction between matter and consciousness and this interaction is two ways what information we take in, what is the input and what is the output so the modes affect both they are like glasses that means they shape the way we perceive things and they are like ropes that means they shape what we pursue these modes are in Sanskrit called as sattva, rajas and tamas sattva means sattva sattva is existence or goodness sattva is good existence or goodness as Prabhupada translates it in the mode of goodness one lives virtuously I will explain these modes a little bit later rajas means passion means activity tamas is ignorance where one is apathetic, inactive lethargic or sometimes one is destructively active so we could say there are three kinds of people, some people make things happen some people watch things happen and some people wonder what happened some people make things happen they are the people in sattva they think, they observe, they understand and then they act so we could say the defining characteristics of sattva is is reflection before action the defining characteristic of passion rajas is action before reflection say look before you leap or just do it just do it of course it’s very popular because it reflects the the ethos of today’s world people are quite impulsive just buy it, just hear it, just do it of course there are times when we should just do it and stop when we are overthinking we need to get into the action but sometimes we can be unthinking and do things so if there is action before reflection that is passion, there is reflection before action that is goodness and there is no action, no reflection simply delusion person simply lost in their head then that is ignorance so like I said just do it is good for somebody who is lost in their head and not doing anything just start doing something but just do it is not good if you can think and act more wisely don’t act unthinkingly but don’t be unthinking, don’t be overthinking also now I won’t go so much into the specifics of the modes as analysed by Krishna because it’s an entirely new concept and I’ll try to explain the concept and in that connection we’ll talk about some points which Krishna makes in the verses so basically for each one of us if we try to make sense of ourselves we are complicated beings that means sometimes we do something and then we wonder why did I do that and if somebody asks us why did we do that we may struggle to give an explanation ourselves a universal insight in psychology is that we are not masters in our own house that many things happen within us which are neither initiated by us nor are they controlled by us sometimes we speak in ways that are completely contrary to our values and our purposes against our interest sometimes we act and we succumb to some temptations we get deluded so now this inner complexity can be very bewildering and different thinkers have come up with different models of the mind to make sense of the inner complexity and the modes are one such model we could say that it’s in the Bhagavad Gita it’s a time-honoured model and it’s not just in the Bhagavad Gita in India almost all major systems of thought that have emerged have considered at least in the mediaeval or ancient times they have included the concept of the modes as central to understanding the nature of material existence so in the modes when we are functioning there are certain kinds of attitudes and emotions they become natural for us suppose somebody is supposed to three people are watching a movie and suddenly there’s a loud noise somebody screams fire and then at one corner of the theatre is a big red blazing fire most people would just rush to the nearest exit and try to run as fast as they can often when some accidents happen in some crowded places like theatres the casualties are not so much because of that accident as because of stampede caused by the accident so if everybody tries to run towards the exit and some people fall and others run over them and the people who are run over like that can even die so this thinking is acting without thinking that’s in the mode of passion now some people may just become petrified the word petrified literally means to become petriest petriest is to become like stone, immobile some people become so overwhelmed by fear and horror and terror they just can’t do anything and that is symptomatic of the mode of ignorance and some people where is the fire extinguisher everybody will be running in this direction but they will somehow get in the other direction, get to the fire extinguisher get to the fire extinguisher this is in the mode of goodness think before you act largely most people today are in the modes of passion and increasingly many people are going towards the mode of ignorance also there are of course in every society people who are in the mode of goodness and these three modes are not just based on people everybody has these three modes within us and these three modes are in a state of competition within us so Krishna first in verses 5 to 9 describes the three modes in terms of the actions that we do in terms of predominant characteristics like I said that the mode of goodness is characterised by knowledge, knowledge means we think before we act the mode of passion is characterised by hyperactivity so Krishna says these modes they interact with each other they compete with each other and thus for example in the morning when we wake up just when we hear the alarm and we wake up we might be in the mode of ignorance, why do I have to wake up I just want to sleep that is neither reflection nor action just continuing in sleep but we wake up, we freshen ourselves up and then we feel alert we feel reflective we feel receptive to higher spiritual wisdom so we remain goodness and then in the day time when we start rushing around doing this, doing that we may go into the mode of ignorance and that way we oscillate across various situations and thus we end up getting trapped getting entrapped sometimes we are in the mode of ignorance where we just don’t feel like doing anything at all so all these three modes are there, they are there with each of us and to grow spiritually we need to rise towards the higher modes, we need to go towards the mode of goodness and beyond that is transcendence so transcendence means to realise our spirituality so we need to go towards the higher modes rather than stay stuck in the lower ones and how we live it has effects, each choice that we make it creates impressions within us and each time say we act in the mode of ignorance say if in the afternoon maybe after lunch we feel sleepy and if we might just need a nap for a few minutes or whatever but if you become lethargic and sleep for an hour or two hours or three hours or four hours or whatever, each time we do that the tendency the likelihood that we may do it again increases and thus we end up so each action that we do in a particular mode and when we do it in that mode it becomes stronger and stronger the tendency to do that becomes more and more and that’s how we may get entangled so long term eventually where we will go after death if we live in a higher mode we go to a higher level of reality where there is greater opportunity for inner growth for spiritual understanding if we live in the lower mode in the mode of ignorance we go to a lower destination an area where there is greater ignorance greater entanglement and lesser chance for illumination so Krishna urges us to at one level to rise in higher consciousness and then finally this 14 to 18 what I talked about briefly and 19 to 27 is transcending the modes in this Krishna talks essentially about how each one of us can these modes are pulling us they are like glasses which shape our how we perceive and the ropes which pull us so the best way to transcend the modes Krishna says first is become an observer become an observer of your thoughts observer of your emotions we we are the thinkers of our thoughts and we are also the travellers with our thoughts so when our thoughts go in a particular direction we travel with them but we are not just travellers with our thoughts we are also thinkers of our thoughts so when a thought comes up Krishna says don’t just start travelling with it think about it is this travel worth it so we could give an example say a computer screen our mind is like a software which generates various notifications and now so the mode we are in will determine the kind of notification that will pop up if somebody is in passion or do this do this do this hundred things like that somebody is in ignorance of how can I escape this how can I escape that how can I avoid hard work that’s what they’ll focus on so beyond this if we consider that the notifications are popping up but just because some notification has popped up doesn’t mean we have to take notice of it we have the choice the notification has come it’s there but I don’t need to know dwell on it so Krishna says like that become an observer of your thoughts and know that when the thoughts are coming up they are not necessarily your thoughts they are they are being induced by the modes within you somebody is an alcoholic they will constantly get thoughts about alcohol even if they are trying to recover and give up alcoholism still the thoughts will come but they don’t have to think because this thought has come I have to indulge in it I have to relapse the thought has come let it be there so at one level Krishna says become an observer of your thoughts but at another level he says being an observer is not enough because you could say thoughts have a gravity pull to them like a notification is there and as soon as the notification pops up impulse tendency is click on it and see what is there so like that when a thought comes up it has a gravity pull especially when somebody is addicted to something then that thought is like a black hole it’s gravity pull is almost irresistible so what do we do at this time we need to direct our thoughts elsewhere and that’s why Krishna says the way to transcend the modes is by becoming attached to them he concludes that the way to come out of the material entanglement is the modes are a way of analysing and understanding how we are entangled and how these shackles they bind us but the way to free ourselves from the shackles is not just by observation but it is by devotion, by redirection how does redirection help suppose there are many notifications which we are determined not to notice but unless we have something that we want to notice if we are studying over some important interview or exam and that is just maybe 2-3 hours away even if some very captivating notification comes up we won’t notice it saying no to anything is always difficult but it becomes easier when we have something to say yes to so Krishna says say yes to me say yes to my devotion have engagement be engaged with me and be determined to be engaged with me then you can say no to other things the idea here is that we all have certain bad habits especially the lower modes create some bad habits within us and don’t fight with your bad habits because the bad habits often have a momentum of their own it’s like say if we are on a road and a big truck is charging towards us if we try to stop the truck by our own means it’s impossible we will be knocked over but instead if we get into a truck then the truck will have to collide with our truck and both will get damaged the truck driver will decide I don’t want to die like this so similarly for us instead of trying to fight with our bad habits we fight to develop good habits and let those good habits fight with our bad habits let our so if we say I will not do this I will not do this that is a very depriving and denigrating kind of approach why did I do this I won’t do this don’t fight with your bad habits we need to fight with them but the way to fight with them is by cultivating good habits so Krishna says the ultimate good habit is the habit of bhakti why is it the ultimate good habit because it connects us with the one who is the source of all goodness and connecting with him gives us inner strength gives us inner purification so any good habit can help us to counter a bad habit say somebody has a habit of just reading random news and stuff like that and they find something very informative something very attractive, educated to read as they start reading that they may not be tempted to read this but if they start reading something spiritual something about Krishna then it is not only they trying to develop the good habit but actually Krishna also attracts them, Krishna also gives his mercy and then the good habit becomes easier becomes much more effective because it is not just the power of the good habit but it is also the power of the goodness of the supreme coming through that good habit so if you study any wisdom text it can make us wise but if you study the Bhagavad Gita it is not just the wisdom of the Bhagavad Gita that is going to help us it is also the purity and potency of Krishna that is going to stream in through the wisdom of the Gita that is going to help us and as Krishna says the way to transcend the modes is just become devoted to me now this Krishna says become unflinchingly undeviatingly devoted to me and then you will transcend the modes somebody may say how can I be unflinchingly devoted when actually the modes are what are deviating how can I can be undeviatingly devoted so when the modes of passion, ignorance come upon us they tempt us, they make us lethargic, so how can we stay fixed it is because of the modes we can’t stay fixed and Krishna says stay fixed and then you will give up the modes so how does this work so the idea is here here Krishna is talking about fixity in intention not necessarily fixity in action fixity in intention means sometimes the modes may overwhelm us it is like if you consider the graph of our desires versus our time sometimes the desires have a surge we all have urges and sometimes the urges have surges when the urges have surges we might just be overwhelmed so that time sometimes the mode of action, the mode of ignorance overpowers us and makes us do certain things which we know we shouldn’t be doing what do we do at that time we get overcome at that time so we cannot have the fixity of action but at least have fixity of intention after the surge gets over what do I do I again start resuming and continuing on the right path continue trying to connect with Krishna so if we keep doing this then gradually we are becoming stronger and then over a period of time when the urges come even if they have surges we will be able to withstand them so the idea is that Krishna says at least have the fixity of intention to connect with me and try to act with that fixity of intention as much as you can and that way you can overcome the conditioning of the modes so moving on to one theme so how do these modes act that’s what we will discuss in this so how do the modes entangle us we are compelled to do as we choose to desire as we choose to desire the modes are subtle conditioning and we may think I just don’t have any freedom but we do have freedom to understand this let’s go back to the example of the notification as we choose to desire as soon as I desire to click on that notification then my whole screen changes and then in a sense if I am looking at the computer then I have nothing else to see except what was there on the notification so similarly for each one of us the desire will come up many desires will pop up within us but as soon as we choose to desire that as soon as we choose to desire then that desire takes over our consciousness and then we are compelled to do so here is the difference between having a desire and desiring a desire we will all have desires but we don’t have to desire having a desire means some temptation some allurement something pops up on our inner screen so once we start choosing the desire then things go out of our control so the modes act by popping up desires in front of us and alluring us to one thing if we don’t get allured then we won’t get captivated so every desire that we have is not our desire and we don’t have to desire it and if we have something more important that we focus on, that we dwell on that we try to develop our desire for then we can become free from the bondage of the modes so any question about this? till now? okay okay so let’s go to the 15th chapter now okay this is an elaborate diagram about three modes which I’ll just explain briefly now we will run out of time otherwise but here if we consider in the mode of ignorance as I said a person is if he is lazy busy, crazy somebody is lazy yes in the mode of ignorance busy, no completely active crazy, yes because they just don’t think about anything what is important, what is not important just get lost, deluded in trivialities also in the mode of passion one is lazy, no people are hyperactive, they are busy but they are crazy why crazy? because often they don’t think about what is really important for them it’s like in the mode of passion we might get obsessed with small things and give huge importance to them and in that sense people can be crazy they are busy but they are also crazy when we are in the mode of passion because we are not really, we are giving far too much importance to unimportant things and not giving new importance to important things in the mode of goodness are we lazy, no we are busy, yes, we are crazy, no we are busy, we are we are intelligently wisely, productively busy and beyond that in transcendence that means when we are devoted to Krishna at that time are we lazy, no are we busy, yes but we are not just busy in the worldly things, we are busy in serving Krishna and are we crazy, yes we are crazy for Krishna just like crazy for Krishna means what? a devotee like there are so many other notifications popping up but a devotee’s heart and head is completely gravitating towards Krishna and that’s why the more we gravitate towards Krishna then the worldly notifications the worldly temptations would trouble us and pure devotees are those for whom all the world’s notifications they are not even noticed by them because their their heart is fixed on Krishna so that is in one sense being crazy for Krishna is both the recommendation for the cure as well as the perfection of the cured state the more we try to increase our attachment to Krishna the more we become free from worldly attachments and the perfection of this is to become completely attached to Krishna and be absorbed in Krishna this is a brief summary of the three modes here now let’s go to the 15th chapter so the 15th chapter is in a sense I said earlier that there is a question Bhagavata is going on with question answers and that’s true but sometimes a speaker might answer one question in a long answer and sometimes they may get a shorter answer so Krishna is asked by Arjuna question 13 chapter and actually 13, 14, 15 and 16 are all Krishna’s elaborate answer so Krishna doesn’t just explain those six terms which Arjuna asks but those six terms pertain to an analysis of material nature and Krishna goes further and uses the elaborate analysis of material nature so here the 15th chapter is called as the yoga of the supreme person, Purushottam yoga and here is one of the most well known motifs well known images of the Bhagavad Gita’s philosophical message and that is of an upside down banyan tree that Krishna compares the world in the first six verses to an upside down banyan tree now when something is upside down what it means is that it is not in the normal way and in this context it is it indicates that it’s a reflection if you have a tree on the coast of a bank on the bank of a river and if we look at that tree from the other side then we will see the tree and we will see its reflection and in the reflection the tree will be upside down so I already talked about y axis and y axis positive y axis negative y axis so Krishna is saying the upside down tree is like the negative y axis the positive y axis is the spiritual reality which is the real tree so Krishna after he has introduced the concept of the three modes and explained that one should practise bhakti to become attached to him and thereby become free from worldly things thereafter now he is talking in a different sense of the same thing of bhakti here he explains to another metaphor how bhakti can elevate and liberate us so he says if you want to get out of this tree of material existence first thing is detachment it’s like if we are if we are captivated looking at the reflection and maybe it’s a mango tree and we see a mango in that reflection I want to jump into that river and I want to get to the mango I want to eat the mango no there is no mango worth it no I want to eat it and I jump in and I search for it here search for it there the mango will be always visible and always inaccessible always visible and always inaccessible always within view and always out of experience isn’t that the way most of the world’s pleasures are we can always see them but when we go to enjoy them they turn out to be an anticlimax they practically never live up to the hype and then immediately we start looking for something else to find and like that we keep cheesing mangoes but they are all reflective mangoes and what does Krishna say first thing is become detached stop cheesing mangoes and then instead he says become attached to the supreme reality Krishna says that this world is a temporary place but there is another world which is eternal and that is my abode so redirect your vision toward me and if you do that you will attain me if you don’t do that then you will have bondage and transmigration so if you stay captivated by the reflected mango then you will you will keep going deeper and deeper into the river and you will get drowned over there so like that you will get bound in the material world Krishna says not only you will be bound but you will get transmigrated from one species to another the soul exists not only in the human body but in various bodies at each body each plant body animal body germ body aquatic body insect body all of these are coverings for the soul they are at one level like tools for the soul to try to eat different kinds of mangoes to enjoy material pleasures in different ways but in none of these can the soul experience real enrichment real fulfilment and thus the soul keeps transmigrating from one body to another and Krishna says that this is what our predicament is and what is the way out of the predicament so Krishna begins 7 to 11 and then 12 to 15 Krishna says that we need to see God as helping us in this world before we can trust that God will help us in some other world it’s like say somebody is a beggar and then somebody comes and tells them that I’m a wealthy millionaire you just leave this city and come to my city and I’ll give you a job I’ll give you a house I’ll make your life comfortable okay okay why should I believe you okay you are hungry right now here is some food for you your clothes are torn here take these clothes so then that person will develop trust oh yeah it makes sense so if you can do this for me then maybe you can do much more for me in your kingdom then I’ll come to you your town your city your job whatever so like that we can’t suddenly develop faith in God’s transcendental benevolence in his kindness in another world we have to see his benevolence even in this world and most of the times we don’t see it because we are looking in the wrong places we all have many desires and we pray to God for the fulfilment of those desires sometimes those desires are fulfilled and sometimes they are not fulfilled and when they are not fulfilled we start thinking maybe God doesn’t exist maybe God doesn’t care so the world is such a place that if we start looking for our desires to be fulfilled by God we will meet with frustration but if you look at a more fundamental level our very existence is dependent on things beyond us right now we are living and we are breathing we haven’t manufactured the air that we breathe even if we work to earn money to get the food on our table but we don’t produce the food nature produces the food what to speak of producing the food we don’t even digest we can’t even digest the food ourselves there is a whole complicated mechanism for digesting food that Krishna that exists and because of which we are able to digest the food so the only time we think about digestion is when it doesn’t work we just take it for granted so from 12 to 15 Krishna talks about how at the cosmological level at the terrestrial level at the physiological level we are all dependent on things beyond us and where are those things coming from at the cosmological level we are dependent on the sun and the moon for light at the terrestrial level we are dependent on photosynthesis we are dependent on the fruits and the vegetables and the vegetation growing at the physiological level we are dependent on digestion so Krishna says we are dependent on so many things beyond our control and we are not controlling them and sometimes these things may go wrong but most of the times they do work right and who is making them work right it is God who is doing it for us this is the eyes of knowledge with which we see that God is already doing so much for me in this world all that is happening which is enabling me to survive and strive and sometimes succeed all that foundation is not made by me, foundation is made by someone else so if instead of looking at our desires and whether God is fulfilling them, we can look at the preconditions and necessities for our existence and see how God has already fulfilled them and thus we can see that God is benevolent and if he is already doing so much for us even when we are doing nothing for him even when we are godless God doesn’t care less for us even when we are godless God doesn’t care less for us God provides oxygen and water and air for everyone so when we see it in this way then okay maybe I should turn towards God, I know Krishna says that he helps us in our material existence and he helps us in our spiritual endeavour also if we want to turn towards him he will give us knowledge he will give us remembrance so basically three things which Krishna says in 1515 knowledge, remembrance and forgetfulness so he says that these are three things which are required for us to function, say if we are driving then we need knowledge of how to drive and then we need remembrance of okay this red signal means this green signal means this this is the lane I need to take and to some extent the word forgetfulness has a negative connotation but forgetfulness is the other side of absorption of concentration whenever we concentrate on some things we forget other things and without that forgetfulness which is basically being free from distraction state of concentration, we can’t do anything productive these three things knowledge of what to do remembering how to do it and forgetting other things so that we can focus on doing it these three are required for doing anything in life and they are required for even functioning in spiritual life for functioning, for growing spiritually we need to have spiritual knowledge and not just in abstract informational sense but we need to remember it then we have to make choices in life when we face temptations what do we do? do we get caught by the world? but if we remember there is more to life my life is meant for something more than these pleasures which even the animals are enjoying if we remember that and we remember that we turn towards Krishna and if we are turning towards Krishna and at the same time we are haunted by our worldly desires then it becomes difficult to focus on Krishna but if we forget then that’s wonderful so knowing, remembering and forgetting these three are vital preconditions for us for acting and Krishna says I am the provider of these three now of course Krishna provides these based on our desires so the kind of desires we have accordingly he provides these things to us so if like earlier I said in the previous chapters we are compelled to act as we choose to desire so by understanding how Krishna is already benevolent to us we can make the desire to turn towards him and then once we get the desire to turn towards him desire to love him we strengthen that desire and Krishna will provide us knowledge remembrance and forgetfulness as is appropriate then after this Krishna says I give you spiritual guidance and for spiritual guidance there are so many wisdom texts so among those wisdom texts what is their essence Krishna gives it 16 to 18 Vedanta is a broad school of knowledge and it is especially concerned with Vedanta and Veda is knowledge Veda can specifically refer to the Vedas which are a body of texts which emerged in India but Veda can also refer generically to knowledge so Vedanta can mean the conclusion of the Vedic texts or it can also mean the conclusion of all knowledge so the conclusion of all knowledge is given in 16 to 18 Krishna says that what is that essential knowledge basically there are two kinds of souls some of us are bound in the world some of us are free from the world and beyond the bound and the free is the supreme reality is Krishna and if the bound learns to love Krishna the bound also becomes free and learning to love Krishna is the purpose and perfection of all knowledge and that’s the conclusion to know Krishna is to know everything if we know that Krishna is the supreme desirable then our life will be orientated in such a way that our life will attain its supreme perfection that is the conclusion of the 16th chapter one point from this Krishna talks about the concept of gyan chapshu the eyes of knowledge in 15, 10 and 11 we need the eyes to see what our eyes need to see what it means is our eyes can see many things but say if we are on a road we can look at which car who is driving, who is walking what kind of dress they are wearing what kind of building is here what kind of shops are there there are many things our eyes can see but if we are driving on a road what our eyes need to see is the signals traffic signals and to see those traffic signals now if you consider if you go to a big Broadway in New York or some big metropolitan city the road signals are hardly ever the most attractive things on the road in fact we could say the road signals are among the least attractive things there are so many people who may look attractive so many buildings, skyscrapers and so many other things may be far more attractive but what our eyes need to see is not all those people walking, not all those shops all those cars, but our eyes need to see the signals because the signals are the most important in their driving but to know the significance of the signals we need education so the eyes to see here eyes refers to the eyes of knowledge, the eyes of education so we need the eyes to see what our eyes need to see so we need education so that we can focus on what is important for us among all the things that we are perceiving so similarly Krishna says in this and what it means is the world can show us so many things in here and many of them can be attractive but we need education to know what is to be seen what is to be focused on so in the world what is to be focused on most is God and his role in the world when we see God and his role in the world then we can start connecting with him, we can get inspiration to devote ourselves to him and ultimately we can attain him so this eyes of knowledge is what the Bhagavad Gita provides each one of us and with these eyes of knowledge our life journey can become less rocky less shaken by ups and downs which will inevitably come in the world because we will be steadily focused and purposeful and most importantly our life journey can be supremely fruitful because we will progress through various walks of our life in striving to love Krishna and will ultimately attain him so I will quickly summarise what I spoke today and then if you have any questions we can discuss so I spoke on the theme of 12-15 chapters and the idea is Krishna is moving now here from firstly focusses on the body from the body to the soul, soul to the supreme soul and that focus on the supreme soul in the 12th chapter where Krishna says that better than worshipping the impersonal is worshipping him in the personal manifestation because relating with personality is natural for us and the supreme personality is naturally merciful to us so then he says that if we cannot connect with Krishna at the pure level out of pure love we can connect at the level of discipline at the level of selflessness at whatever level we can and this is connecting with Krishna what is the evidence of that virtues should be manifested which can be appreciated which can help us function better in the world which can be appreciated by people in the world of course even if you don’t have virtues you still have devotion that is good in the 13th chapter talks about the focus shifts from okay after learning that we have to become attached to God how will somebody who is attached to God function in this world and that Krishna says he answers Arjuna’s question about Purusha Prakriti Kshetra Kshetra Gyan Gyan again I talked there about how the field of knowledge the field of action for all of us is different but we are different from that field and knowledge is seen not so much in terms of power as it is today knowledge also needs to be seen in terms of virtues so Krishna talks about the object of knowledge primarily being the ultimate reality when we are in a jail the most important knowledge is how to get out of the jail and then Krishna talks about how to put all these pieces together and see and function in the world with knowledge as a part of functioning with knowledge he gives us in the 14th chapter the understanding of the three modes we discuss elaborately that modes are like glasses and like ropes they shape how we perceive the world and what we pursue in the world and goodness means, passion means action before reflection goodness means reflection before action ignorance means no passion no action, no reflection, just delusion and we all are pulled by the various modes in our entire life and whichever mode we choose to act according to that mode becomes stronger within us and the way to deal with the modes is first by observation that we learn to observe our thoughts we need to know that we are thinker of a thought before being a traveller with the thought and then after that I talked about how we can focus on also attaching ourselves to Krishna it is not just trying to say no to the various worldly thoughts but saying yes to Krishna don’t try to fight bad habits, cultivate good habits and let them fight with the bad habits and Krishna says that we become fixed in devotion to him if the modes prevent us from being fixed then we can have fixity in intention even if we can’t have fixity in action and then in the 15th chapter I talked about the metaphor of the three upside down tree which Krishna talks about and there he basically gives another frame by which we can devote ourselves to him so again this analysis of the world, this world is like filled with reflections of mangoes which you think are real so we need to become detached from the reflections otherwise we will go deeper and deeper into the river and drown we will become entangled and how do we come out of this entanglement it begins by appreciating God’s benevolence in this world and that if we think in terms of whether God is fulfilling my desires we may not appreciate but if we see that God is fulfilling the preconditions for my existence in so many ways then we can appreciate it at cosmological, terrestrial, physiological levels and then God also gives us our knowledge, remembrance and forgetfulness according to our desires and if we desire him then he will give us those three things appropriately to go towards him the essence of knowledge is to know that beyond the bound source of the liberated soul is the supreme soul and that is Krishna and if we devote ourselves to him then he will elevate and liberate us thank you very much for your attention and participation there is one question here by Aditi so I will answer that so the question is that it said that on one side it said don’t desire the desire but other side it said that follow your curiosity so is there a difference between desire and curiosity if you are attracted according to our dharma then are we going to follow our curiosity yes definitely we can differentiate between there are different words which you could use for this I think I introduced this concept in the third chapter and I talked about instincts and impulses so we all have certain desires which are casual they stay for some time and then they go away and certain desires which are very deep and not just deep in terms of desires that drag us down something which really we feel strongly about so if somebody is intellectual they will naturally want to want to read intellectual subject matter so that is just their nature and that can’t be changed but they could read intellectual subject matter that is atheistic atheists can also write intellectual books but they can also read intellectual books that are theistic so that are spiritually uplifting so basically we could say that we we more than saying no to more than specifically differentiating curiosity and desire we have to recognise that we have to have a purpose and that purpose will be like our strongest desire and when we say yes to that purpose then we say no to other things now discovering our purpose may take a long time some people may be fortunate and they may just recognise these are my talent, these are my abilities, this is what I want to do others may not be that fortunate but we can just say within our context what is it that is most valuable for me, most important for me in a sense we can try to take responsibility for ourselves like I said become observer of our thoughts in the 14th chapter so we can become an observer of ourselves this person is over here right now and this person over here has these strengths these weaknesses, these opportunities these threats we can talk about thought analysis so look at that what is the best that this person can do and then try to do that so if we act in this way what will happen by this is gradually we will start making healthier choices and once we assign a particular purpose for ourselves purpose provides perspective and okay this is important for me, I cultivate this desire and I follow this curiosity and other things I say no to so we all ultimately we have to move toward Krishna and attain Krishna but we will channel our individuality in moving toward that ultimate reality how I will move toward Krishna is different from how you will move toward Krishna because you are a separate individual I am a separate individual you have a particular body and mind I have a particular body and mind so according to our particular nature we can serve Krishna and that’s why overall if we take responsibility for ourselves and decide on a purpose and again how do we learn our purpose that’s also a big answer it’s intelligence, experience and guidance we use our intelligence to understand what our strengths and weaknesses are we look at our own experience to see what has worked for us what works for us what we also feel comfortable doing what we are competent at doing and then we take guidance from others so by this when we have a purpose that we say yes to then we can say no to our casual desires keep popping up if now one of my main services is writing now while writing I can just get caught in reading many many authors to see how can I learn their style how can I learn proper style from them well that’s good but I can’t be an endless reader and never write so I have to make sure that my desires where I am following my curiosity is serving my purpose and not destructing me from my purpose so Arjuna had a natural attraction towards weapons especially archery and he developed that and he became a great archer so it’s I am talking more in terms of not desiring our desires the many casual and strange stimuli that pop up in our mind and in our world constantly and we don’t get diverted and destructed by them but we stay focused purposefully does it answer your question so any other questions by anyone ok so thank you very much and it requires a lot of interpretation