Earth Day Special, Vedic wisdom for eco-friendly living, The Monk’s Podcast 112 with Shyamananda Prabhu
Hare Krishna Shri Krishna Welcome back to the Monks Podcast. Today I thought since it's the World Earth Day coming up on April 22nd, we can discuss about the topic of the earth and say how to live harmoniously with the earth, with the environment and broadly in our current situation where we have so many crisis hitting humanity. You have a road map or you have segments divided as to how we touch the topic? Yes, so maybe I thought we could discuss first from a historical perspective how the evolution of ideas or evolution of worldviews has led to this current crisis.
Then secondly, we could discuss a little bit about what the Vedic wisdom, the Bhagavatam and the Vedic literature offer. How does that worldview contribute to the current discussion? And then finally we can talk about something practical. So historical, maybe philosophical and then we can talk about bringing it home together in terms of practically what can be done.
Very good. So historically at one level life in the world is tough and there have been always natural disasters of various kinds. We know entire civilisations are sometimes wiped out by floods or famines or volcanoes.
So I think in Italy there is Pompeii where Mount Vesuvius, the whole city was buried and later discovered. So at one level it's understood that life on the earth is tough, it's dangerous and we human beings are vulnerable. And there are various ways in which we try to deal with this vulnerability.
So traditionally we were very acutely aware of our existential vulnerability that nature is powerful and the powers within nature can crush us at any moment. As since what is called a scientific enlightenment from the 16th century onwards, as science started developing, through science came technology and technology was one of the primary motives for developing technology was to gain power, gain power over nature by which we could at one level protect ourselves from the many dangers that are there in nature. At another level we could counter nature's control or we could bring nature under our control so that we can make our life more comfortable.
We can not only make ourselves more safe, more comfortable. And so we could say that first there was the vision that we have submission to nature. Then there is the domination of nature that was the vision that we had through science.
But then we realised that it's not a matter of brute force that we can bring nature under control because nature has so many subtle and intricate mechanisms which are interconnected that it's just not possible for us to know all of them or control all of them. So now more or less the vision is more of at least cooperation if not submission that we can't simply bend nature to our will, we need to cooperate with nature. So that's a quick historical perspective.
I can go deeper into it but I'd like to hear your thoughts. Yeah, I concur with this idea that nature feels, looks like a very delicate feminine figure that like a typical movie villain can easily come and molest or take her away. And this brings to my mind the imagery of the Ramayana where Sita is shown as very delicate and Ravana is the Mr. Big time enjoyer, exploiter, I get what I want type.
And in the later pages of Ramayana, Valmiki Muni very wisely reminds his audience that if Sita wanted she could have destroyed Ravana. She's powerful but because of the particular pastime sequence and she wants that Lord Ram should take the credit and for the greater good of humanity at that time and for millions of years to come. The sequence has to be in such a way that Lord Ram has to come and destroy Ravana.
But he intelligently reminds the reader that please for a moment do not think that Sita is not powerful enough to take matters in her own hands. And this is what I understand that one idea which came in a first canto purport that aborigines of the primal primitive inhabitants of a deep dark forest they bow down before a gigantic tree, they bow down before a mountain peak because that unscalable peak represents some part of nature which doesn't bow down to them. The tree in its majesty looks daunting.
It's like when you come before me kneel down. So humanity has always knelt but out of force. So internally the desire is always to conquer.
Given half a chance I'll build a dam. Given half a chance I'll clear down the forest. Given half a chance I'll exploit the ore or whatever from this area.
Only when this mining is destroying my cities or when this mining is or something is poisoning my rivers my rivers of course man always claims that whatever is here is his So you're right to say that today we are at the cusp of a particular time where we don't have history of so much of technological progress but we do have history of follies being committed in trying to control nature. And one subordinate point to that is like in India kings were called Bhudev like a lord of earth and surprisingly or sometimes not surprisingly I don't see I don't remember much of the so-called Christian world but in the Islamic conquest the words the words for earth are Alam and Jahan so Alam Panna someone who is capable of giving refuge to the whole earth Alam Gir is somebody who is a control of the whole earth. So even there the notion is that the king is like a control of his whole earth which we don't have much of a problem provided the king acts like a custodian of reserves rather than an exploiter.
Okay. So today we don't have kings but they are simply replaced by CEOs of MNCs or prime minister or presidents who can take a decision like the current president of Brazil he is saying that you don't teach us how to take care of our economy because we are going to give corporations the permit to to clear away Amazon forest lands because we want to have economic progress. So now this is seen as practical from one point to from Brazil's point of view and is seen as complete madness from the world's point of view.
So today if a country says if the world is not coming to help us why do we care about them? So on this Earth Day these kind of questions need to be answered. It's like one person said we are all in a ship and if one person says I'm going to saw a hole in my particular floor and I can do whatever I want because this is my room but if that floor is it happens to be at the bottom of the near the bottom of the ship and if water seeps in it's not like only his room is going to go down the entire ship will go down with that. So we are just still on the historical discussion as to how mankind always wanted to.
Mankind has suspicion that material nature can be controlled. There is always an effort to control and historically we need to learn something from this. So these were some points.
I like the example of a ship or a boat. I think in Kunti Maharaj's prayer she says Bhuvo Naav Ivo Dadhav So the earth is compared to a ship or a boat and of course there it is the metaphor is more of the earth being burdened. So if a ship becomes the weight of the ship becomes too much it cannot float but what is worse is if a ship is somebody inside the ship sabotages it makes a hole then it's going to completely sink.
So that we live in an interconnected world has probably become so enormously obvious or so painfully evident so undeniably obvious during the COVID pandemic that what happens in one part of the world can within days influence the whole world bringing it to a standstill practically and of course slowly recovering. So in the past we could say that even when wars would happen before the first world war and second world war even when wars would happen no matter how fierce they would be they would not affect other parts of the world much. But now the first world war and second world war even though they are called world wars it's not that the entire world was involved at that time but now that the world has become so connected because of trade, because of tourism, because of immigration, geopolitically things they affect each other so fast and so extensively that concern for the earth has to be a shared concern.
Nobody can say that I'll do what I want with my part of the world because what we do in one part of the world is going to affect us, affect everyone not just that part of the world. So having said that there is this still concern that in one sense the developed world has already exploited the earth and created enough pollution and now they say that we are in a position where we can go green or at least the developing world says that we are in a position where we can you are in a position where we can go green you can become green but we are not in a position and if you ask us to stop development this is our means of staying in power. So while there is at a nominal or even at an intellectual level the acknowledgement that we all need to be concerned about the earth but at a practical level there are lot of heated differences between countries and even within countries between groups about how to go about doing this and my understanding is this is not just this will not be resolved simply by better some better negotiation or politicking it is, it requires a more fundamental change of world view before before a more more tangible policy that addresses our shared concerns will emerge any thoughts? so if that is the what is the segue can Vedanta wisdom or Bhakti wisdom offer something to somebody who is not a follower of Vedanta life like we may say somebody may say both of you are discussing this but you are your outward appearance shows that you are committed to following a certain path do you have something which can appeal to our intellect that we should change our world view yes perfectly agree with that so my understanding would be three things would be relevant over here first is that if we consider our actions whatever actions we do they are determined not simply by ok this is what I want and this is how I am going to get it underlying our actions there are there are world views there are world views which shape our actions and the fundamental world view so science and technology they operate based on a particular world view where the idea of the earth is basically a insatiate celestial object where coincidentally or by lucky accident as some people say life emerge and we have all the variety of lives right now so the idea is that the earth is simply an arena for for existence but there are alternative now this world this vision the earth is simply an arena for existence so as long as we can exist and we can enjoy we can do whatever we want with this arena this is a this is a ill-informed world view because that in one sense gives us the licence ok if it's it's just like a backdrop so if we consider this is a stage on which we are doing some drama so whatever I want I will rearrange the backdrop accordingly but if you consider the earth is not just a backdrop it is not just a stage for the human drama but it is also you could say a participant in existence so many traditional world views have had a more inclusive vision of the earth's role so it mentioned earth has been personified so like you talk about Bhudeva the king is called as Bhudeva the lord is also sometimes called as Bhudeva when he descends on the earth and the earth is called as Bhudevi so this idea of the earth as a conscious participant in in existence not just the stage for existence now that can that can alter the world views can alter our approach significantly if I think that say this particular just like we are becoming more aware of say animals and the pain that animals go through then there are people there are people with conscience ok this meat I am eating this is causing so much pain to these animals and is killing them do I really want to cause this much pain can I eat something else so as the atrocities against animals are becoming more and more evident say human consciousness is rising and to some extent veganism is becoming popular there are other reasons also like the health benefits and other things but the point is if we see something as an object we think that I can do whatever I want with it if I objectify it if we see animals as essentially insensitive beings meant to be eaten consumed by humans but if we see animals as conscious beings then that exploitative tendency goes down so similarly if we see the earth simply as an object then ok I can do whatever I want with it but if we see it not as an object but as a person as a subject as a conscious being then we can that that impetus for living in cooperation and not seeking domination on the earth that can get a greater foundation ideological or philosophical foundation for it what do you think? yeah I have two small points which I feel have that they have impressed me very solidly first one is from the Ishopanishad which categorically says that whatever you look around is complete in itself especially talking about nature this universe it is completely equipped as a whole unit there is nothing redundant and nothing extraneous you want something probably you want something and earth has already sensed that this need could arise and provision has been made for that you just need to be intelligent enough to look around properly so among many so-called leaders of science and technology a kind of disdain a kind of arrogance slowly seeps in that material nature did not have this provision and we made it something is only so much sweet but we have discovered something which is 3000 times sweeter than natural sugar and then you find that that so-called cheap sweetener causes hepatitis B causes cancer we say wants are unlimited resources are limited obviously there has to be a conflict so where does completeness and a complete whole come in so that requires some training and culture second point is about the Srimad Bhagavatam text where a very powerful personality intelligent wealthy prosperous and at the same time spiritually trained this king as he befits the title of Bhudev or the lord of the whole planet and he sees the discrepancy and there is a dialogue between him and earth who has taken a personified form and he challenges her as a king I am responsible to feed my subjects why aren't you feeding them and the answer given is the answer for all ages their personified earth says king do not think there is a shortage of anything but I won't release the resources if I see that they could be misappropriated that is falling in the hands of people who are not capable of having that like for example if today's nuclear codes if they fall in the hands of a terrorist group everybody agrees that should not happen if the gold of a particular country the entire thing falls in the hands of criminals that also people agree it should not happen so there is a clamour for common custody of the earth's resources and that has to be headed by somebody who is trustworthy so here the king is asking earth why I'm not feeding and she says there is no shortage I have just withdrawn the resources because I cannot trust people or I cannot trust elements who will not cooperate with me so here the cooperation element is you take again to quote from the Shopanishad you take whatever is your quota and leave it for others which includes animals and other species also so to just to summarise one point is seeing seeing the completeness which requires some training and the understanding that there is no shortage we just need to improve ours status our intellectual status our spiritual wisdom and then the resources the key will be delivered to us because the resources are not lost or not destroyed yes this point you made about completeness and that has that can be quite puzzling for the modern psyche because you may say that there is so much so many things that are wrong in nature so as you said that completeness has to be understood properly so here are some thoughts about appreciating that completeness so at one level the material world is a place where things are temporary where things are limited so in no way will we ever come to a situation where say all our desires can be fulfilled as it is said there is enough in this world for everyone's need but not for everyone's greed so when we talk about the completeness that the completeness is never going to be appreciated or realised or actualised if we are thinking of completeness means complete arrangement to fulfil my greed so in one sense to realise the completeness there are there are two aspects one is we could say the inner enlightenment the inner purification the inner enlightenment and then there is the outer development the outer transformation the outer change in society so we could say that in some ways so in principle changing outer things to make them more favourable is not wrong the Pandavas when they got a barren or they got a kingdom that was a part of the kingdom that was like a wasteland the Khandav they made it into a flourishing kingdom so they did so changing the outer to make what we could call the outer development say convert build a kingdom where there was a flourishing city where there was a wild forest that is not in principle wrong but the point I feel the challenge comes up where there is only outer development and there is no inner enlightenment in one sense in modern society we may have got the worst of both the worlds in the sense that through technological advancement we have gained far more power to say control and change the outer world than what was available to humanity in recorded human history recorded in contemporary historical terms so you know we can destroy forests by using explosives we can devastate the earth by by various technological means not just weapons of mass destruction so we have got technology that gives us exceptional and we could say exceptionally dangerous power to control the outer world at the same time because of the increasingly materialistic culture that has spread across the world there is lesser and lesser inner enlightenment and there is more and more of a exploitative mentality so we could say the exploitative mentality internally and then the powerful or aggressive or destructive technology externally now all technology doesn't have to be destructive but this combination of technology with the power for destruction and the mentality geared toward exploitation that is a deadly combination which has created an immense amount of havoc in the world so that's why the idea of realising completeness it becomes a very far-fetched idea and we think that I have to do this and I have to do this and I have to do this and that's when I'll gain completeness but the sense of completeness never comes and because the mentality for exploitation internally is insatiable and then that insatiable mentality leads to more and more indiscriminate use of technology externally and that it becomes like a worsening spiral any thoughts on this? I can share one small thing yeah generally like this this example is always given that if you have a sack of grains let's say a sack of grains falls from a truck a simple occurrence in India there is a truck which comes to the grocery go down and then one sack of grain falls so a sparrow comes and pecks at people a crow comes a pigeon comes and then if the grains are edible for sheep or for goats they may eat more so we see the members of the animal species they eat according to their quota and then they leave the area there is no question of thinking about tomorrow but man has this special intelligence where if a hypothetical example where if a sack falls a man will shout at his wife and his children and say hey come help me get this back to our home because we found it and we can use it for the next two months so this kind of storing mentality is shown as man's superior wisdom understanding that I can make better use of this and I don't deny that but when in like if we see in today's times one percent of the super rich if they control 25 percent of at least the financial resources which gives them the power to control to exert that influence over material resources then it becomes a frightful thing for example I read a quote that if the poor are always told that whatever food falls whatever food scraps fall from the table of the rich that will be given to you then the understanding is provide the table of the rich with more and more food so that more and more scraps can be available but this is fundamentally flawed because one after some time the majority were always thinking that we can never trust the powerful or the elite with our welfare then there is that makes you complete that is also part of the Purnam.
There is a part of Vedic history where powerful people under the guidance of wise intellectuals knew exactly how to work mother earth as farmers traders or whatever and they also knew how to share so today that understanding part of how to treat as you said not to see earth as an arena for my exploitation and then when you get something in order to perpetuate okay perpetuate could be a norm kind of a short at least to give the next generation some better place than what I had even this norm is seen as a rarity in today's political leaders that the only goal I have is I would like to leave this country in slightly better place than what I found it in fact people say by the time I am out and you try to understand the mess that I have created I should be far away and retired from politics so why this fear why this apprehension that I would be held accountable for what I have done yeah so the two things over here I think that not everybody in human society is is evil or or destructively self-centred but unfortunately those who are in power or a significant portion of those who are in power are like that and I feel that there are two three different things over here one is ignorance second is incompetence and third is malevolence so when when we do things which end up destroying the earth as a place of residence for future generations it could be at some level because of ignorance let's say for example when we started using fossil fuels we had probably no idea that what cost it would have eventually for the earth's future so it could be ignorance then there is incompetence there are may be possibly more efficient ways of doing things but we don't care say like for example we have a vehicle somebody has a vehicle which they can fix a little bit and it may pollute less but they don't care to do it not that either the manufacturers don't manufacture sufficiently carefully people don't handle it sufficiently carefully so it's incompetence and then there is malevolence where people not only they don't care or they can't do they don't know but it is more of they just desire at one level as long as my purpose is served who cares about anything else so in fact some people have the idea that my success has to be at the top of others failure so we could say that those who are malevolent it's very very difficult to persuade or reform them they actually need to be restrained sometimes even by force yes but the other category and maybe I can add one more in between is there is ignorance as incompetence and there is negligence so incompetence and negligence are similar so incompetence means I don't do things well enough negligence means I don't care to do things well enough so I think there are significant number of people in the world who fall in the first three categories ignorance incompetence negligence and some amount of education for that purposes awareness not just awareness for that purpose can make a significant difference so one area where I see a significant can I move on towards the solutions part now yes sure so one area where I see a significant change happening is that say for example with respect to some aspects of environmental consciousness at least in where there has been education awareness created people do try to do some things as much as they can so for example there are three R's which they talk about reduce reuse and recycle and in many places there are attempts made for example we have dustbins where something is recyclable something is not recyclable and some people may just not know about it but people who know about it and that is they are made aware they do take care of these things I see that in some ways we may say that the generation which is growing up now they may be they may be straying away from traditional cultures but there is a certain level of awareness there so I would say the environmental consciousness is much more now in the younger generation than in some of the older generation also again I don't want to make blanket statements but so if awareness can be created then the three things the ignorance incompetence negligence that can be avoided and even in the when we talk about the super rich yes there are people who are up there who are competent and they arise not by power but by competence so you give the example of how the poor get the scraps of what is the feast for the wealthy that's where the wealthy are out only to exploit and dominate now another way of looking at it so I'm talking that not everybody is malevolent let's say in general some people have to become wealthy before more people can become wealthy what I mean by this is if you consider some symbols of wealth say for example cars or phones or computers or internet now all these have become very common in today's world but just 10 15 20 years ago many of these things were very expensive so but there are some people who funded it some people who may have been at that time very wealthy they wanted it and in one sense it was developed for them and when it started serving a felt need of humanity then mass production started happening and then it became more accessible so what I am trying to say over here is that the problem is not with outer development per se we could have technology if it is done with sufficient awareness sufficient proper consciousness then technology can also be used to do good and there needed there can be a hierarchy that becomes exploitative but there can be the hierarchy which also becomes like a trickle-down effect which spreads to everybody so while the through education we can through awareness we can have this reduce reuse recycle and that's important on a particular level that will not be done sufficiently unless there is I talk about a fourth R as redirection is a redirection of human consciousness a redirection of our understanding of what is it that makes life meaningful fulfilling if we think that this life is all that I have and if by the time I die why should I care for anyone else then that vision that materialistic worldview makes us uses very little reasons for caring for the world on the other hand if we have a more spiritually informed worldview that life's greatest fulfilment is not just in accumulating things in possessing things and controlling things life's greatest fulfilment comes in something higher in raising our consciousness and contributing to others and connecting with the ultimate reality in doing the things that provide us meaning so then that raising of consciousness can actually ensure that the destructive use of technology the destructive exploitation of the earth that can be minimised so what the Vedic wisdom can provide distinctively certainly reduce reuse recycle the awareness for that has to be presented more and more but along with that if the redirection can be provided the intellectual foundation the that can be provided for redirection then it's likely to have a more sustainable and wide ranging change that can happen I fully agree in fact as we are doing this particular podcast at as a special request from our GEV administration so the beginning for any newcomer especially somebody who is a city dweller intellectually understanding I need to do something cannot cut away from my job family duties and staying in a city but taking a few hours or a day or a weekend off and spending some time in an eco-conscious atmosphere may be the right spark it could be just a spark in the beginning but that can spark that interest which could lead to making those small changes in your lifestyle I like this Japanese concept of kaizen small incrementing positive changes at a fixed time schedule so the changes are very small but they are positive and over the period the benefits are large so somebody can just change from cutting down plastic usage somebody might cut down from using artificial ingredients that is the cutting part somebody can start adding things like you said at one point of time a mobile phone would fit in a large suitcase now it fits in the upper shirt pocket so somebody selflessly quote-unquote put their money so that this technology can be used only then it will be profitable the same principle can be applied to expanding eco-conscious products if people invest in them now make them proliferate through the market with more people using them more demand eventually a businessman would like to earn money and there is nobody stopping him from doing that it's only that if you wisely invest in products which are going to help mother earth heal then it could be a very right step in the right direction yes just thought of a couple of things when you mentioned this that small incremental changes that is such a crucial thing to understand because sometimes we feel that the earth's problems are so huge what can I do there are billion dollar corporations that are that are having an exploitative agenda what can I as a tiny human being do but there is this concept of a ripple effect each of us is connected to some number of people and our actions they speak often our words speak and our actions speak sometimes louder than our words so each of us who makes a healthier choice we contribute to making a better world and that healthier choice can be both ways it can be in terms of the three hours reduce, reuse, recycle but an even more significant way we can contribute is by redirecting our consciousness that each of us if we take some time to spiritualise our consciousness now there was this global summit on there have been several global summits since the 1980s 1990s as the magnitude of the environmental crisis started registering within the collective human psyche scientists felt that scientists and researchers and policy makers felt that if we just alert humanity to the magnitude of the danger that will lead to behavioural change but then they found that actually just knowledge was not enough even when people knew they were not able to they're not changing things so that's when the I think from 2009 there was a international summit from that time onwards they said that the there are scientists they started saying that we need the cooperation or we need the active involvement of religious and spiritual teachers because dealing with the environmental crisis doesn't just require changing of external behaviours it requires a change of consciousness is a change of attitude the change of mindset and that technologies can't do so nowadays the United Nations has started working with a new genre there are NGOs non-governmental organisations now they call it as FBOs faith-based organisations so these FBOs basically their idea is that they each every religious tradition every spiritual tradition has some kind of faith and based on that that they can influence a demographic in society so that change of consciousness for that we require not just greater technological advancement or even just greater education about eco-friendly habits but a more holistic worldview and while various traditions can have different conceptions of the earth and different conceptions of the interaction between humanity nature and divinity I feel that the Vedic worldview offers a very significant significantly inclusive and attractive understanding so we could put it as so I will talk about the Vedic worldview in a minute or two but would you like to respond to something of what I have spoken till now no no you can just summarise yeah so just Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita that sarva yoni shu kaunteya murtaya sambhavantiya taasam brahma madhyo aham bija pradapita this is I am like the father so we could say that this is not just a universe it's a universal family vasudeva kutumbakam the earth is like a family so we could say that the divinity is like the is the is the father the earth or nature is like the mother and not just we human beings but all living beings are like the children in the lap of nature and this vision sometimes there is this human exclusivism that we humans are special but the Vedic scriptures is everybody on the earth everybody in existence in fact is a part of one family and that consciousness it's it's not just a sentimental sentimental imagination but there is a significant amount of philosophy which grounds this the understanding that the trees that we are cutting down that somebody might be cutting down that you know we are souls we are spiritual beings who go through various lifetimes and we might have in that tree at some time you know I saw once a drama in which is done by kids in I'm in America they they just take eco-friendly and they said that somebody is about to kill an animal to eat it and then that person gets a vision that actually the animal who is being killed that animal was the killer in a previous life it was like a transmigratory drama where they said that by the law of karma whom I'm killing that person was the killer was the killed the killer and the killed are just inverted positions so the idea that we have that we are all interconnected not just in the sense of our present survival but a worldview which says that essentially all living beings are not different from us not just all human beings irrespective of gender race religion or nationality or whatever else but all living beings are essentially like us so that creates that shared ethos that that we all have to share and care for the earth so the Vedic wisdom not only I'll conclude with one more point that there is for for this inner enlightenment or inner transformation to happen for the redirection of consciousness and the we need two things one is a philosophical vision and then there is a there is a practical process okay how do I raise my consciousness and in this regard also I've the Vedic tradition offers very empowering practises of yoga meditation and prayer by which anyone and everyone can raise their consciousness so it's not just okay there is some divinity out there and I pray to him pray to that divinity but there are tangible practises there are practises especially for this cosmic age the power of sacred sound is considered extremely vital extremely potent in transforming human consciousness so the changing that exploitative mentality to a more contributive mentality that can dramatically happen if somebody adopts the process of sacred sound meditation if on the meditating on the sound on the sacred sounds there are many sacred sounds which are called as mantras among them there are especially sacred sounds are mantra centred on on invoking the divine or invoking the ultimate reality so that mantra chanting it might seem to some like simply a sectarian religious activity or just activity for one's own spiritual development but actually it is not just that it is an activity that can contribute to changing the way individuals behave in society and in this way gradually contributing to making the making humanity live more harmoniously on the earth any thoughts about this no I just saw my notes so maybe you can summarise okay so so we discussed on the topic of the earth today on the occasion of world earth day started by we talk about historical then spiritual and then practical so the historical perspective is that in the past we lived in trepidation or submission of nature because nature could destroy us by any means at any moment then through technology as we gain power we started thinking that we could have domination over nature but considering how intricate nature's mechanisms are we now realise that we have to come toward cooperation with nature and in that connection you took the reference of Ramayan where say the exploitative Ravan was able to temporarily dominate Sita but she had the power to to destroy him if she wanted to similarly sometimes it may appear that we humans have been able to control nature and bend nature according to our will but nature can just there can be a resurgence of reactions that show humanity that we don't have a supreme place in the dispensation of things and then we talked about how there are different how the basically we humans in modern times seem to have got the worst of both worlds or worth of most the outer and the inner there has been there is a technology externally and there is the mentality internally so we have a technology that can bring about immense destruction and then we have mentality that is bent on exploitation and that can cause great devastation unfortunately the technology is falling in unscrupulous hands and there is no worldview that no sufficiently deep or coherent worldview that can warrant people regulating their destructive mentalities so we talked about you mentioned about the idea of completeness in nature that the instinct for development if it is driven by the idea that nature is incomplete and I am going to make it complete then how are you defining completeness if we define completeness in terms of complete arrangements for fulfilling my my cravings then the nature will never have enough even for one person's greed but to differentiate between the greed and need we need inner enlightenment unfortunately the materialistic worldview doesn't provide us an inner enlightenment it actually provides us a vision of the earth very objectified as an arena for our our enjoyment and exploitation whereas if we treat the earth as a as a conscious being as a participant in existence not just a stage for existence then we will see that that vision can foster cooperation much more so you talked about the story of this great king Pruthu that the earth when it when there was shortage it is not that there is actual shortage but the earth is withdrawing because resources because of the exploitative mentality of people and and if we are to change things we talked about you mentioned the Kaizen principle that small positive incremental changes can make a significant difference rather than feeling that the earth is so that the problems of the earth are so big that we can't do anything about it we can start in our lives by doing what we can and what can we do there are two approaches externally we can do the three hours reduce reuse and recycle and small eco friendly habits can also make can accumulate to make a significant difference and similarly we can go inward to read the fourth hour which can be added to complete the three hours is to come that is the redirection so redirection of our human energy and endeavours that we don't have to pander to our desires and gain control over the externals to become happy rather if we evolve spiritually and connect with ourselves and I'll connect with the ultimate reality therein we can find deeper satisfaction so seven scientists and policymakers have realised that just greater awareness doesn't lead to transformation in people there has to be there has to be a participation by the spiritualists who can actually bring about change in inner values and inner attitude so that's why along with NGOs there is the idea of FBOs coming together coming up now and in that connection we talk about redirection that there is the Vedic script Vedic wisdom can offer us a philosophical worldview that it's an inclusive world we were Sudhaiva Kutumbakam divinity as the father nature as the mother and all living beings not just all human beings in apart from of different races and race different races religions and nationalities but all living beings are a part of one family and so that vision can foster cooperation and shared care sharing and caring much more and for raising consciousness we also need practical resources practises so yoga meditation praying and especially mantra chanting in this age are powerful ways by which we can all transform the exploitative mentality into a more contributive mentality so people's attitude towards the environmental problems may range from ignorance incompetence negligence to malevolence so those with malevolence they need to be curved but those with ignorance incompetence or negligence if they are spiritually informed then they can make significant changes and we can make the earth we can make humanity's presence on the earth more harmonious with the earth and the ultimate purpose of existence anything you would like to conclude concludingly add so we just like to wish all our viewers very happy and enlightening Earth Day and may this be the harbinger of a small beginning in awareness so you can connect to your local nature conservation group ecological conservation group or someone like the Govardhaniko village which could be having so many progress to as you said in the second part that is practical steps needed to be taken to enlighten yourself spiritually so that it can be a worthy inhabitant of this beautiful planet which has been which is a privilege bestowed upon us and it's not as to end one wise person said as a child of mother earth we have full right over her milk but not over her blood Oh God it's beautifully put so that's a very memorable thought it's a very memorable vision to differentiate between need and greed also this thank you very much for sharing your thank you thoughts and having this discussion Hare Krishna.