Appreciating Radhanath Maharaja’s expertise in community building
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.
I'll begin with some prayers and then I'll discuss with the powerpoint something about Maharaj. I'll begin with some prayers and then I'll discuss with the powerpoint something about Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Hare Krishna to be here with all of you today and this has been a very relishable time for me also hearing about can you can I record on my end also if possible give me the permission to record yes I'm making you the co-host room okay you know I cannot record because already recording so I'll stop the recording start and then you can start on a cloud once again is that okay yes okay thank you so when I hear the devotional offerings of many of my senior godbrothers who have had far more associate God brothers even God sisters who have had far more association of Maharaj than what I have I sometimes feel like what Bhaktsanshu Thakur has said about about licking a bottle of honey from outside so I am more of an analytical person and I have had a few very meaningful and deep interactions with Maharaj but I've also you could say from analytical perspective try to understand how our movement has progressed and especially in in Mumbai in Mumbai area and then as I've traveled across the world other places and at one time I was also asked to write a book on ISKCON history especially ISKCON's post Prabhupada history but it was a very complicated project and quite a controversial project so I did not do that but I did study quite a bit so in one sense today what I'll speak on is speak about is how Maharaj has carried on Prabhupada's legacy and while Maharaj has done many many things in Prabhupada's movement I will focus on one particular thing that is community building and of course we could say the major community has built is in Radha Gopinath temple but along with that I would say that inspired by Maharaj's vision inspired by not just my our God family but by those who are inspired by Maharaj in general the vision for community building has spread across the movement and in one sense now we may think because when we become practice bhakti we naturally become a part of the part of a community so we say what is so special about it but actually if we look at the overall history of ISKCON things were quite different you see the idea of a community as we understand it today was not really there in ISKCON's history because in the past joining a joining ISKCON meant moving into the temple so the community was about full-time devotees but now most devotees are not full-time devotees and then we have to actually re-envision what community means and not just re-envision it but then actually manifest that vision into reality so I'll talk about how Maharaj has done so and I'll talk about what I have going to present today from three perspectives from my overall understanding of our movement's history from my interactions with leaders of the Radha Gopinath community and also some of my very as I said meaningful interactions with Maharaj also so let's begin this so Maharaj time and time again he's emphasized that whatever he is doing is for pleasing Shila Prabhupada in fact Maharaj for one thing he had no desire at all to have any disciples he's accepting disciples also his service to Prabhupada because because of the upheavals in New Vrindaban and many devotees whom Maharaj had cared for they were they were left without their spiritual master so from that time onwards Maharaj has taken up this service so even his building of a community is is at least from what I understood Maharaj considers that his most important offering to Prabhupada in one of generally Maharaj is not in Radha Gopinath temple during Janmashtami time he's usually in London or somewhere else but one or two years he has been there and on both these occasions after Janmashtami when there is the when there is the Prabhupada appearance day celebration at that time Maharaj said that what is our offering to Prabhupada this is this is a beautiful temple he said it's not just a temple it is it is all all of you it is this community that is our offering to Prabhupada and he also stresses that actually it is it is Prabhupada's mercy that he has enabled us to do this offering but in Maharaj's own if you look at broad ISKCON history what Maharaj has learned from Maharaj's own personal words so the garland that he's offering to Prabhupada is of course he offered many flower garlands to Prabhupada but the garland that he's offered specially is the garland of the community that he has built and further the community that he's inspired to build so now what are the challenges for building a community so first of all there were no immediate precedents generally whenever we want to do anything we look at what our acharyas done and what has been done in the shastra so why were there no immediate precedents because Prabhupada was with us for two shorter time after ISKCON was established Prabhupada was there barely for 10 years or so and 11 years you could actually 11 years from 66 to 77 but then as the movement started expanding he needed to travel a lot across the world and then further we not only had to travel he couldn't stay at any one place to systematically develop a community over there so the nearest we have example we could say three examples one is Prabhupada in the early days first in New York and second in and after that in San Francisco he interacted very closely with devotees at that time in Lower East Side in Haiteshbhuri but in both places the dynamics were very different as I said whoever joined the movement was living in the temple it was a very small and there were no it is almost anybody who came was a full-time devotee so many of the dynamics of a community as we have it today they were not there at all that there are different ashramas and there are different responsibilities and different expectations and different concerns and different ashrams and most devotees are also far more a part of the world than they were at that time so another could be that Prabhupada considered eventually LA to be his Western headquarters and he did learn a lot write a lot of letters about how LA things should be set up in LA but even that focus was more on how to standardize a deity worship over there and then how that could become like a model for deity worship for the rest of ISKCON it was not if you look at the letters that Prabhupada wrote there yeah he does talk about devoted naturally but it is not so much about community building that much and we may say Prabhupada spent a lot of time in India he spent a lot of time in Mumbai Mumbai is the time he spent the most time room is a place where he spent the most time after after he started ISKCON but even in Mumbai actually for most of the time when Prabhupada was here there were not many Indians who became devotees many Indians were very great well-wishers they became life members they supported Prabhupada in the fight for the Juhu temple but in one sense all these life members were already parts of their own communities they were established in business they had their families and they never in a sense became a part of the ISKCON community they were very dedicated to ISKCON in their own way and the devotee those were devotees were mostly devotees from the West who were living more in a missionary mode so in that sense there were no immediate precedence about how to build a community and when if we see after during the time of Prabhupada's later years and immediately after him after his departure there were two broad demographics two broad groups of people that Prabhupada cultivated the full-time devotees in the West and they were life members in India now you can call this two different demographics but at the same time in terms of levels of spiritual commitment there is a huge difference the full-time devotees are practically practically given up the entire world to take up Krishna consciousness and the life members they were very much a part of the world and they were their main contribution was giving donations other contribution was they they had some contacts and connections by which they got things done and they assisted Prabhupada in invaluable ways in ways that his disciples could not have accomplished in India on their own so now if you consider this why am I using our yawning gap over here there's a huge gap between these two demographics the full-time devotees and the life members and in one sense the way our movement has changed is that almost both these demographics have decreased substantially although life membership cultivation is still happening to some extent in India but that is that has gone down substantially and if you consider the number of full-time devotees that also has decreased substantially during Prabhupada's time it was like 90 to 95 percent of devotees were full-time devotees now in today's world 90 to 95 percent of universal 97 percent of devotees are not temple residents now of course we could expand the definition of full-time and say that every devotee is a full-time devotee because we want to offer our whole life to Krishna and that is our aspiration for everyone but I am talking more in terms of full-time into the residing in the temple and practicing and their whole life is centered on the temple so now if we consider now why is this important if we see Maharaj's own example of his life see first he went on a search for God he is search culminated in finding Krishna and Prabhupada Vrindavan and then he came and stayed in new Vrindavan so new Vrindavan you could say was not just an example of full-time devotees in a temple but it is it is isolated from the world completely it is completely isolated from the world and that's how he lived for years there several years and even in that community Maharaj was somewhat isolated because he was on top of a hill doing pujari worship and then after that he was told to do college preaching that and even while doing college preaching it was if we hear of Maharaj's life at that time he was mostly traveling from and he had his own van and he would go from college to college and preach and try to cultivate people but he was traveling so much that it was it is cultivating devotees but not exactly cultivating a community and yes some people would join and a few came to new Vrindavan but new Vrindavan by that time had also become quite turbulent so now before actually Maharaj could reap fully the fruits of his college preaching he worked hard and many people became devotees but before those people could assist him before those people became mature enough to assist him in dramatically expanding his college preaching he was sent to India now there could be various reasons and you won't get in the history but when he came to India it was in one sense a completely different dynamic because in India they're already I mean at that time in 1986 87 onwards they're already a good coming good number of devotees who were coming and more started coming but the Indian dynamic was very different so today this con as I said most members are not living in the temple but although they're not living in the temple the key point is that today most devotees when we call somebody this con member of course there is this thing quite you could say at one level funny at level at one level very liberating that there is no definition of ice con member now do you define a score member by saying that wasn't initiated devotee well okay but then many initiated devotees sometimes struggled to follow the standards sometimes people take initiation then stop practicing bhakti also and some devotees may be waiting for initiation for a decade and they are far more serious than many initiated devotees also so how do we actually define a member so let's not get into that discussion broadly speaking you can say that somebody who has accepted the sadhana and sadhya that Prabhupada is given the sadhya is that Krishna is God and sadhya is when we practice bhakti centered on chanting of the holy names so if you consider that then there are a lot of devotees and so most of his cons demo is cause demographic today exists between the full-time devotees and the life members they're not full-time devotees but the life members they didn't do sadhana they were not sadhakas they were bhaktas but not sadhakas they had some devotion from their cultural upbringing from their family heritage whatever it was from their past life's piety whatever it could be but they were not most of them were not really practicing serious sadhana whereas Prabhupada wanted us to practice serious sadhana so we say most devotees today are at level of dedication far higher than the life members and they may be as dedicated life as full-time devotees living the temple also but they're not living in the temple so their life has many other dimensions so this itself was a big challenge for our moment in general and how big this challenge was to understand this I was talking with Ravindra Swaroop Prabhu and he told me that when he has been for many decades he was looking after Philadelphia temple so he said that initially our vision of preaching was that okay we people come to Sunday program or the programs and he preached to them and they move into the temple and we found that at that time many Indians would started coming to our temples but these Indians had no intention of moving to the temple so what happened after some time they would come to the temple but we thought they are never going to become devotees and we stopped paying attention to them we just neglected them and then we started looking who else is coming who will move into the temple and so over over a period of months and years we noticed that although we didn't pay any attention to the Indian they just kept coming they kept coming and he said at that time it would be so funny if these mostly Indian people but others were also there to some extent if we had if somebody had asked these Indians which religious group we belong to let's say we are we are Hare Krishnas but if somebody had asked us are they Hare Krishnas you know they are not Hare Krishnas because they are not coming to the they're not moving into the temple so that self-definition it was a problem but in many ways it was in the 1980s the whole idea of a congregation program congregation program means that you go to the house of congregation and do regular programs maybe once a week once a fortnight program that started in the 1980s before that the idea was you distribute books you meet people and then if they are inspired they come to the temple that people can stay in their homes and practice bhakti that conception was not there so much so when Maharaj came to India he what he did at those days was I was just talking with Krishnachandra Prabhu and saying that from almost 1985-86 till 1992-93 almost every evening Maharaj would have a program and Krishnachandra Prabhu would every day drive him every evening initially maybe 20 25 30 people would come maybe again eventually numbers are increasing but his idea of going to devotees houses and doing program and spending spending time with them at an individual level so that is what Maharaj encouraged and Maharaj so so I was talking here about what happened with the we had the full-time model where the life membership model but most of our is gone with this model so I'm talking about how Maharaj for building the community focused on this demographic of the congregation members so now the problem with the full-time model is that most devotees couldn't continue full-time lifelong and that is just natural if you look at even Vedic times most of the sages where the rest us so renouncing the world itself is not easy and announcing the world and staying in the world is much more difficult and that is what is required of preachers in ISKCON so that's entirely understandable so what happened was also the full-time model didn't work because not many devotees stayed full-time and communities also no longer temple based they were spread around the temple quite widely but the life membership model also it had a limitation Prabhupada's hope was that the life members they would come to the temples there they had this facility to stay three days in the temple and they would see the morning program they would see the deities they would see the dedication of the devotees and they would become devotees somehow that didn't happen even the life members who came and stayed for them it was more of okay they were going on tourism to some place and they wanted to see that place and ISKCON temple just became like a hotel for them to stay so they liked it but most of them very few of the life members actually went on to become devotees I'm not saying that it didn't work at that time it did help Prabhupada's established temples in India and it made a lot of well-wishers so Manjula Prabhupada's disciple was telling me that he had been he had gone to at that time some interior city in India it was maybe there were not many devotees over there something like Indore or Bhopal or something like that and he went to one one well-to-do person's house and he saw that person had actually put on his name plate his degree and he had put his degree BA LLB this that and below that is called life member so you put that at this degree so what had happened was they said Prabhupada had made it in such a way that ISKCON is an international organization and it's the prestigious thing that you can be a life member so in that sense it was successful but in terms of making and making those life members into devotees that didn't happen so now so what does Maharaj challenge as I mentioned that he was moved suddenly from a secluded temple worship and then traveling college outreach to handling the diverse needs of an entire community in India a lot of devotees coming many of them were in India the family structure is quite still strong and so at that time when I was in Chicago I was talking with Maharaj Maharaj mentioned that the first few months and years when I was in when I was in India see I was trying to get my hands on everything that Prabhupada had spoken or done in India that means how did Prabhupada interact with life members how did Prabhupada interact with Indians what did he speak in his classes to Indians because India was a completely different you could say ballgame so just as when we we meaning the Indian preachers Indian Brahmins come to the West and if you want to reach out to Western audiences we have to learn it's a different ballgame so in one sense for Maharaj when he came to India he yet okay how do we go about our preaching over here so Maharaj said that I read everything read heard whatever I could about what Prabhupada was interacting with people in India because you see this is a big subject at one level Prabhupada was very successful in a strategy of getting Western people to come to India and then that inspired Indians but the inspiration that came from that was more of an inspiration of cultural nationalism it was not bhakti spirituality that means our culture is so great as Western people also adopting it but does that mean we have to adopt it exactly the way they are doing it not really so that came later the series number people becoming devotees in a serious way in India started happening in a in the 80s in the mid 80s you can see so so now I'll talk about three four things that Maharaj did so this is again my observation my interaction Maharaj interactions with God brother with other God God family so if we consider Maharaj classes Maharaj emphasis as a small but significant shift so Maharaj in his classes he focused on service attitude not on renunciation if we look at Rupa's lectures propolis quite strong in in condemning sense gratification look how it will cause entanglement how it will cause suffering and that was important because Prabhupada's followers were living in a initial followers at least living in a culture just completely steeped in all forms of sense gratification so that is important and has also quote those verses but if we comparatively speak Maharaj focus is much more on service attitude not so much on renunciation so Maharaj most quoted verses which we ask any disciple as I heard a few classes they'll know is through now the piece of nature so now what does this shift mean if we shift from renunciation to service attitude what this is a in in the study of religion this is called as creative theologizing theology is the study of God study of religion creative theologizing means that the that the knowledge about God is presented in a way that addresses the needs of the needs of the current audience of the audience of that generation so now what happens when there is a over emphasis on detachment it leads to there's too much attachment don't be attached don't be attached it leads to cold-heartedness toward people in general and even to what other devotees so if if for example some devotee doesn't follow proper standards or what I think is a proper standard somebody's not following if I focus on detachment I just cut myself off from that devotee I have got nothing to do with the duty so it leads to cold-hearted it leads to lack of proper relationships and then this can lead even to relationship conflicts there is over emphasis on renunciation then the renounce sort of things that we are already liberated and household a lot of things that oh we are all we have fallen and we are bound and there's very little hope for us so that leads to a sign of superiority complex among the announced order that leads to inferiority complex among the householders and eventually that leads to international conflicts this happened we know in Prabhupada's time also in 1976 when let's not go into the history but this has happened and this keeps happening so when there is over emphasis on renunciation it can very easily lead to a fault-finding mentality the renounced order may say oh you are not renounced to the householders and the householders may say okay you are in the announced order but are you actually being announced oh you don't you do like this you do like that you do like that so an overemphasis on renunciation can actually create tensions and conflicts it leads first all to cold-heartedness and cold-heartedness is is is not very conducive for for building a community I remember one of one of the senior devotees in our moment he is very senior he just missed being initiated by Prabhupada by just a year or so so he told me he heard Maharaj lecture first time in 89-90 and Maharaj said that no we all should serve each other and there should be love and trust among devotees and he remembers when I first heard this he said I look at the devotee sitting next to my sister love and trust among devotees is that is gone philosophy is that is gone philosophy that love and trust among devotees he thought it's called philosophies be detached so it was for us it seems common sense because we have heard it so many times but it is a very significant shift in focus so what happens is when there is service attitude and when there is service attitude then okay whatever a particular position a particular person is in what happens is that there is okay this person is a Vaishnava I should serve this person and then when we serve each other we care for each other that naturally develops affection then we can count on this person oh if I need seven trouble this person with there's a love and trust developed by that so love and trust don't develop by detachment alone of course there has to be some basic level of detachment there is attachment also if there's too much attachment also you cannot trust such a person because for that attachment able to anything but it is over emphasis on detachment there is a problem and then on top of that if there is too much emphasis on detachment it leads to guilt because one is not able to live up to the standard that is expected and then one starts feeling lonely because one cannot even share tell one's problems to other what will others think of me and then it leads to all kinds of psychological problems so and it becomes worse if one is publicly preaching oh you should give up zero sense gratification this that that and then one is not able to practice so what happens is in general Maharaj focus has not been on detachment he personally exemplifies detachment and he does encourage in one sense exemplary behavior from all his disciples but I remember once one of the one of the senior God brother asked Maharaj a question that if some of the if a devotee we had recommended for initiation or whom that person stops following the standards or does something simple oh will we get the karma for that so Maharaj said that he says don't think about karma at that time think only about how the devotee can be assisted in being elevated so he says yes sometimes devotees may do something wrong but the important thing is that always devotees should be encouraged to practice even if you just try someone were doing something wrong at the end of the interaction that devotee should feel encouraged to practice but the devotee should never feel abandoned or rejected and that abandonment rejectment is of what often happens when we overemphasize detachment so my statement don't even think about karma at that time I remember that sentence very strongly now what happens is when there is a emphasis on service attitude instead of renunciation what happens by this it fosters respect for everyone as parts of whether somebody is great or covenant or doesn't matter now when I say this is when Maharaj did that shift that doesn't mean that shift is to something new it is very much there in our tradition Mahaprabhu respected everyone is grandson disciples as well as his non-sort of disciples but that shift Maharaj brought because that was not there prominent in our out in our teaching at that time so if we see everyone is a part of Krishna then we see by serving everyone we can gain mercy we can grow spiritually so if you see one of the common consistent emphasis of marriages come together and associate of devotees here about Krishna and serve in the mood of a servant so this actually helps connect with each other much more and then the key thing is it's not the detachment is not emphasized but we could say service attitude is actually the means to get the higher taste by which detachment will come just emphasizing detachment doesn't automatically produce detachment rather when we do Seva that Seva pleases Krishna that Seva pleases Vaishnava that Seva pleases Guru and and even more don't just do Seva if we have Seva Bhav that pleases even more and when that happens then naturally we all get higher taste so in that sense service attitude is the means to to develop detachment of course we could say at one level detachment is the incidental by-product of service attitude the real fruit of service attitude is attachment to Krishna so then also what happens is that when there is a focus on service attitude it assures everyone that there is space for them within the movement even if they fall short of certain predefined standards of renunciation oh you know I couldn't do this I couldn't do this I couldn't do this so so what happens over here is otherwise for devotees often like one zero if I'm following the standards then I'm in the moment if I can't follow the standards and especially becomes known to people I can't follow the standard then it'll be so humiliating I can't stay in this moment at all so just I have to leave so I remember there was one senior devotee here in the Radha Gopinath community who had some difficulties and then there were some many issues with him but then he was told for some time to not come to the temple and he was quite well known to other devotees so then Maharaj called several of his senior disciples he told them that at an administrative level this decision may have had to be taken but a personal level maintain your relationship maintain your relationship with him and encourage him and engage him in whatever you can and Maharaj talked about Kala Krishna Das when Mahaprabhu rejected him but the Vaishnavas engaged him the Vaishnavas told him that okay you can go to Kala Krishna Das and travel with Chaitanya Mahaprabhu on his tours but unfortunately at that time he had been temporarily lured by the Bhattaharis and Mahaprabhu was upset by that but the devotees engaged him the devotees told him you go to from Puri you go to Mayapur and you tell the Mayapur devotees about the pastimes of Lord Chaitanya what happened in South India and when he went there what happened was there the devotees welcomed him because he was simply going to speak out and then he felt accepted he felt valued and in that way the devotees engaged him so Maharaj quoted that pastime he said that yes sometimes even if somebody it's not just detachment even if somebody has some problem in following certain moral standards basic moral standards also if there is a service attitude okay this person did something wrong but still how can we serve if detachment only become becomes a soul filter through which we look at the world then that creates a lot of problems but service attitude is the is the filter or the lens through which we are looking at the world then there is space for everyone even if they are not practicing bhakti very seriously according to particular standards of seriousness now another very significant thing that Maharaj did we could go a lot into it see Maharaj doesn't so much emphasize preaching in the sense of go and distribute books cultivate God he doesn't use it doesn't emphasize on preaching but what he says is that this is one of his another very important quote a happy devotee is the best teacher so what he said is that yes we can tell the world we can tell the world Oh bhakti is so wonderful practice bhakti but that will not have as much effect on people inspiring them is as by showing them how wonderful bhakti is and how do we show it through our personal walk through our if we are happy if we are well connected in the community and people feel a welcoming mood in the community then naturally there will be outreach there will be expansion so expand so expansion doesn't have to happen by simply again emphasizing preach preach preach it happens by Prabhupada's talking about preaching yes we all will see Maharaj example also but he's he is traveling he could have he could have rested on his laurels in India he had worked hard build a wonderful community and he could have stayed over there but Maharaj chose to come to the West and try to do us now so Maharaj example is there personally but how does preaching happen most effectively if we if devotees are happy and devotees are a part of a warm community so that community is not just for nurturing devotees community is also for welcoming new people in fact according to contemporary surveys of spirituality of what makes people join a spiritual group so that the philosophy of that group often comes like sixth or seventh in the list what usually comes top in the list is a sense of belonging today's world there's a lot of loneliness a lot of fragmentation even not just a joint family structure even the nuclear family structure so people want a sense of belonging and that that's why you know now how do we we can't just tell devotees or be happy so then that will have that will lead to preach actually it is the responsibility of the community to ensure that people are happy engaged so when I was maybe in 2000s probably 18 I was 2017 or 18 I don't exactly remember I was in my American tour so I had been to Chicago I had a Maharaj with generously give me a good amount of time and then I went to LA from there I went to Carpentaria where I met here Raj Maharaj I have several books for you Raj Maharaj and that we have a reason the Maharaj is also very kind to me Raj Maharaj so then Raj Maharaj told me so tell me about your meeting with Raj Maharaj what happened and then I told him I told him this is what I was planning to do I asked Maharaj about this and then Maharaj Raj Maharaj spoke something which it had not registered on me at that time but when he spoke it he says in everything that Raj Maharaj spoke you so I noticed that there is not a single instruction there only suggestions so I will take it away by that so that I asked so so are you saying that that I'm not surrendered enough that's why Maharaj didn't give me the instruction nearly your suggestions he said no no that's not what I meant he said this is the way Maharaj generally functions he doesn't give instructions he only gives suggestions so then I went back and look at what what Prabhupada did with life members so life members were not committed devotees so Prabhupada you don't see any incident of Prabhupada chastising life members or even instructing them so Prabhupada's focus in general was encouraging and engaging encouraging and engaging now of course when we are when we are committed to the service of the spiritual master we will even take the suggestions and instructions that is that is our service attitude if we are understanding but in one sense see Maharaj may give an instruction we may take it but when we start instructing others we may not have that the car to actually instruct others so in one sense Maharaj is modeling how we guide others how we nurture others it is not by instructing do this and then chastising why didn't you do this it is by encouraging and engaging okay what do you think about doing this and yes when if you feel a little diffident about engaging if you don't feel confident encourages try it out see how it works so this has been the overall mood of Maharaj in how he engages people and in one sense as the generations are changing this is the way we need to we need to nurture people maybe one generation before also or even you know say my generation we would obey our parents but now it is like even the parent-child relationship is also not that vertical so Maharaj overall mood is encouraging and engaging and in that way devotees can be nurtured and they can grow now this was a very striking exact experience for me that is this what does empowerment mean normally devotees are empowered somebody's very important that's and they're doing successful things and very wonderful things so I was in one community and there were some devotees who were doing a lot of service they were doing a lot for the best for X for reaching out to Westerners but what happened was that when I went to the temple I've talked to the temple leader and the temple leader told me that these devotees they had a lot of concerns and complaints about those devotees now Maharaj no one knew those devotees so then I afterwards I met Maharaj and talked with him and Maharaj said yes I know those devotees very well they're doing wonderful service and I know the temple leaders also now they're also very dedicated to Prabhupada's mission but he said that they have a particular vision of how Prabhupada's what preaching means and it is difficult for them to accommodate those who don't fit in that vision so then he told me something that we have many empowered devotees in our movement but we don't have enough empowered leaders to engage empowered devotees I said what do you mean by that so he said empowered leaders are those who give space to empower devotees to do wonderful things because what happens is sometimes somebody may be very empowered but if somebody else is also empowered in empowered and empowerment can get various levels empowerment can be something somebody's very talented empowerment can be somebody's this has a lot of energy and zeal and vigor empowerment can also be they have a lot of devotional dedication maybe to their guru or maybe to a particular service say a particular temple is focusing on entirely on fundraising for a temple and somebody has a lot of dedication to book distribution so then that may not fit in the temple vision but that devotee can do phenomenal service somebody has a lot of dedication studying Shastra and teaching Shastra and helping people develop taste in Shastra but that may not fit in the temple's mission so Maharaj said that talk with this devotees also and I'll talk with those leaders also he said that that if some empowered leaders they need to give space to the devotees are empowered to do wonderful things now of course we don't want to have conflict with the local leadership but he said that these devotees are doing wonderful things I cannot I cannot discourage them I cannot stop them from doing those things they are doing wonderful things will be pleased with them and will be pleased with the temple temple leaders also because they are also doing valuable service but this definition of empowerment so this is a follow-up from the previous point it is not so much of instructing and chastising as encouraging and engaging that sometimes devotees may be inspired to serve in a particular way and that we may be somewhat non-conventional that may not be the way things are done so if that is the way a particular devotee feels inspired to serve then it is some kind some leaders may think it is a failure that this person is not following my instruction and they may have taken the personal failure they may come down heavily on that person or they may condemn that person in public and then that leads to that person feeling rejected brokenhearted and that person goes away in fact this is what happened in many ways in the early days of our movements post Prabhupada phase we see that many of the leaders of Gaudiya Mutt today are ex-ISKCON devotees and not all but many many of the leaders of ISKCON of Gaudiya Mutt are ex-ISKCON devotees and these are many of these are actually many of them were very intelligent very dedicated very very intellectual but somehow because they had a particular vision of serving Prabhupada and carrying on spreading Krishna consciousness that are slightly different from the leadership at that time those devotees felt that they had no space in ISKCON and they ended up going away from ISKCON going to Gaudiya Mutt so now of course they are in Gaudiya Mutt means also they are following Prabhu they are following ultimately Gaudiya Vaishnavism and that is wonderful but at the same time why if Prabhupada build a house in which the whole world can live then can that house not have many different rooms in which different devotees can serve in different moods and can we not provide them a certain level of space their own room where they can serve Krishna in their own way so this was his definition of empowerment so there are quite a few points but I will conclude with this point so overall Maharaj focused on caring for devotees the Prabhupada sometimes use very graphic metaphors so one time Prabhupada said don't make me like Alexander so what does Alexander mean Alexander conquered the world but he started from Greece and he came to India but when he wanted he decided he can't conquer India and go further but he went back the all practically many of the areas where he had conquered they had already been reconquered by other people so he had to fight his way back so he conquered one city went to the next city and by that time the previous city fell off so Prabhupada said don't do that don't let that happen to my moment he says I am here and devotees are inspired and devotees come in large numbers but after I leave you don't let our centers fall in disrepair don't let devotees get discouraged and go away so what to some extent we focus a lot on preaching to new people and that is important in its own way but what about the people who are already there how much are you caring for them Prabhupada himself said that it is now time for us to churn the milk to churn the milk but where were the processes for churning the milk so who's actually doing that so in many ways when Maharaj built a community his focus as I said was on caring for devotees so there are various various system the council system the marriage board the Bhaktivanth hospital the Varishta Vaishnav Sabha for elders so many many initiatives were created for caring for devotees and in that sense that caring for devotees is the essence of community building and now various other models have come up for the names might be different but that principle of caring for devotees is now become a very important part of our entire movement so devotee care systems are more and more being encouraged and slowly being implemented and we can say safely say that Maharaj was a pioneer in this so community building has been his distinct legacy and now of course we have our God family spread all over the world and each community will have its own mood and everything may not be similar to what maybe Maharaj developed in a particular place but Maharaj has also been very so Maharaj has built one community one place but he's also encouraged devotees to be a part of the community wherever they are so so there's one devotee from I think it was Ireland he said Maharaj there and it was somewhere in Europe I'm not sure the island he said that you know how can I how can I please you how can I please you I hardly get to interact with you I'm not a part of your community I don't have any counselor system where I am so Maharaj said that three things broadly and I've heard this said by said by many other devotees who are staying in different ways so so he said that Krishna conscious be happy and work as much as possible in cooperation with the local community the local leaders so be Krishna conscious be happy so and work in cooperation so now it's interesting I have asked different devotees in the priority so more all of them are said the same thing now I never asked my mother that if this is the priority but broadly speaking so if you see that ultimately probe then be Krishna conscious be happy that is the reiteration of chant Hare Krishna and be happy for trouble others so be Krishna conscious be happy and then then yes we all want to be a part of a community but so don't be disruptive if you can't work with them don't be disruptive but work as much as possible with the community so we may not be a part of the community which Maharaj has created but we can understanding Maharaj's mood of service attitude we can be a healthy part of the community in a community wherever we are in terms of ours our health ours all around health and all the health and the vibrancy of the community and that is what has happened in many many parts of the world right from Australia to America to Canada to UK even in Africa there are devotees inspired by Maharaj and they may be Maharaj may not be initiating devotees much from Africa but there are devotees inspired by him and they take the take the example the principles the emphasis on service attitude emphasis on caring for devotees and in their own way small small communities are sprouting over there so this is his legacy and in many ways we are all sheltered by that legacy and we have the opportunity to share the shelter of that legacy with others in our own small capacities so on Maharaj Vyasa Puja we all can pray that you know we develop some gratitude more gratitude for not just what Krishna and Mahaprabhu and Prabhupada have given us but what specially Maharaj has given us and we can try to share those gifts according to our capacity so let's Radhanath Swamy Maharaj so I'll quickly summarize I know it was a little over time so I spoke broadly on three main points today first point I spoke was that how there are no precedents for building community and that's why it is a big challenge because we had either full-time devotees or we had life members and Prabhupada was never at one place long enough to build a community that was a challenge and personally Maharaj also had no experience but then for building building a community we talked about what exactly what did Maharaj do so there was a shift from detachment to service attitude and that ensures that there is greater not judgmentality but greater harmony between people wherever they are and then from that as we there is a service attitude then and the next part of that was that we nurture devotees okay we say that to serve but it will we have to how do you nurture devotees it is more but not by instructing or chastising and chastising what is more by engaging and encouraging giving space for devotees to grow in to serve in the way that they feel inspired to and thus care for devotees and build a community so community is a distinct legacy that Maharaj has provided in Prabhupada's mission thank you very much Hare Krishna. Thank you so much Prabhu such an amazing class this really it was eye-opener for me especially on how Maharaj build communities in India like you said he had daily programs I didn't know that they did home programs in the 80s so much learning for me here and you play so much nicely on Maharaj's instruction about caring very very beautiful wonderful class yeah Madhav Chandra Prabhu is here other devotees are here as well so if there are any questions please questions comments please feel free to unmute yourself and share with his grace Madhav Chandra Prabhu you want to say something okay that's fine yeah any any other devotees have any questions comments for Prabhu yeah so Prabhuji one of the part of his community building is the what Maharaj has provided in terms of counselor-counselee system which is because at certain point of time that's the most scalable model that Maharaj's instruction is given to the counselors and then they go to the counselees so tomorrow so probably the question is that is this a which is a such a successful model why not the other communities basically adapt that model of counselor-counselee or mentor- actively kind of nurturing your how you are progressing on their devotion okay so well there are two three things over there that we could say that many many devotees have an understandable hesitation to do something which Prabhupada has not explicitly instructed so in that sense that another work the counselors counselor system or a mentor mentee system we not find those words in Prabhupada's books directly now of course Niranjan Maharaj has written the book on caring for Krishna's devotees where he does give a lot of you could say references for the principle of caring for devotees but still the point that are there any explicit instructions for this particular thing well what happens is Prabhupada's books are both so they are they are containing eternal truths but they are also written at a particular time so when Prabhupada was writing a book he had a particular audience in mind so Prabhupada if you see Prabhupada nothing in his books talks about a place about about a situation where there are multiple spiritual masters within the same movement so Prabhupada always refers to the spiritual master as singular follow the instruction of the spiritual master those spiritual master so that in one sense Prabhupada was addressing the situation of his disciples at that time in our movement there's only one spiritual master and it's it's practically not possible to to address all possible audiences at the same time so Prabhupada gave essential truth that are universal but Prabhupada also was addressing a specific audience so at that time our movement was in a formative stage and at least in the initial years using 1960 from up to 1969-70 Prabhupada actually was available for almost all devotees because devotees are not that many number and in one sense Prabhupada was their personal guide and then after that as the movement spread and Prabhupada started traveling extensively it is mostly the local leaders who are guiding younger devotees so in that sense they were already the guides so we could say that a decentralized system of care was there during Prabhupada's time also but there is still a difference that that there are there are Brahmanas and there are Kshatriyas now we don't want to use we don't want to call any bra any devotee by any particular varna but we can look at the function that devotee that so there are there are managers and you could see there are cultivators so if a temple president the temple president has a particular priority and that that is they have to maintain the temple Prabhupada could consider it is grace if a very great disappointment and disgrace for temple or they were closed so the temple president's priority is going to be to ensure the temple moves on and flourishes now a part of that is taking care of devotees but taking care of devotees also separate service is also a distinct service so do we need specific people for taking care of service that service let's say for example during Prabhupada's time Prabhupada said basically were temple management you can have a temple president and a treasure that is only two things to the two people are in a process now many is called upon the so people make that two people are no way enough as a whole body and still we sometimes feel that there are it's not enough so in some ways we as a movement have had to adapt that for functioning purposes but because Prabhupada is not talking about directly about consular system so to some extent there is hesitation but I think overall it is it is being recognized devotee care is now is like a official ministry within the GBC and now that means that the GBC said that all temples need to have some system of devotee care now exactly how devotee care will be implemented that may depend on the vision and the priority of particular leaders so so it's difficult for if you look at Prabhupada's Prabhupada Prabhupada's writings Prabhupada often was extremely happy when devotees put a lot of books Prabhupada was delighted when when a new temple was built Prabhupada was delighted when new people became devotees what happens is but we could say to the exact extent Prabhupada would have been very sad and Prabhupada was sad when devotees left the movement so what happens is there are some like very visible markers of success so doing something new doing something new building a temple distributing books getting new people to come to bhakti there is certain amount of certain amount of achievement in it the thrill in it so that is what we are our moment is focused on even after Prabhupada's departure once Bhakticharu Maharaj was there for Radha Madhya Puja and he visited for some time and he had given offering he said that Maharaj you are demonstrating how to lead in the mode of goodness now lead in the mode of goodness what does that mean so later I had met Bhakticharu Maharaj as I was in Kolkata Maharaj was there at that time so Maharaj kindly invited and then that is the only time I had I had a close association with Bhakticharu Maharaj but one of a few times actually so that time Maharaj had invited us to to three of us devotees we had lunch with him so I asked Maharaj Maharaj you have made this offering so what do you mean by that so he said that goodness is concerned with maintenance passion is concerned with expansion so he says when you are leading in the mode of goodness means you are focusing on maintaining devotees taking care of devotees so I would say that is in the early years Prabhupada was Prabhupada you could say the lay the groundwork for a global movement so to some extent even is all of Prabhupada's disciples were very young and youth the Rajoguna is actually there so that Prabhupada channeled that in a very dramatically effective way by expanding the movement all over the world so mine so Prabhupada did what was essential at that time but Prabhupada did give a vision about churning the milk so I feel that this leading in the mode of goodness where we focus on cultivating devotees that is something which is gradually happening and it will as it as the need is recognized more and more it will happen that's what I can say broadly Thank you Prabhuji.
Thank you for your very elaborate answer. I always feel that Maharaj that system of counselor-counselor is so successful I just keep wondering why every congregation yatra should kind of have that kind of model. Thank you Prabhuji.
Thank you. Thank you Prabhu. Prabhuji, Vinit Prabhu has a question in the chat.
Okay I saw that question so if we feel inspired to serve in a different way we keep feeling we want to innovate as we serve but leaders have different vision so with limited time what should we do yeah that is a challenge broadly speaking you see that there are two things there is freedom and there are facilities and in general nobody will get both together what do I mean by this if you want freedom freedom in the sense that this is the way I want to serve well yes we can we nobody is going to arrest us for trying to serve in a different way. ISKCON is not a policing movement like that so if you want to serve in a particular way we can sir nobody's stopping us but in terms of facilities the facilities could be something like say so if I if I want to do scientific preaching and then I say that you know I want to I want I want a temple hall for a scientific program I say okay no we have different program at that time that may not be the priority of the temple so facility could be in terms of temple resources facility could also be in terms of the time of the temple leaders facility could also be in terms of the approval and encouragement of temple leaders so if you want freedom we will not have facilities it's generally difficult and if you want facilities we will have to curtail our freedom to some extent because the temple leaders they are there they are responsible for the facility that are there and they will want to use those facilities in a particular way so if we if we feel inspired to serve in a particular way then we cannot demand freedom we cannot seek freedom and demand facilities that is unreasonable so facilities can include not just physical infrastructure facilities but it could also mean mean encouragement and appreciation so generally if we don't create a disruption that means okay I want to serve in this way but I don't have to criticize those who are serving in another way so just because I am serving in a different way doesn't mean that I have to criticize the management who is not doing that service so if I don't do that then over a period of time our moment has become so big that different devotees can serve in different ways and especially now with social media and online outreach on the online world has you could say democratized outreach anybody can do anything and you cannot really regulate the social media so even national governments can't record regular social media what can is called management actually regulates so much so but then if you want freedom we cannot have facility so don't we can avoid it creating disruption so at least we should have some some guidance some blessing from some senior devotees maybe not necessary the temple management but somebody else and we try in some way to to show the temple management that we are not rebellious that we need our space but maybe there are some occasions where we can show visible subordination and maybe when they give me class go and attend the class or do something maybe make some financial contribution or something to show them to assure them that we are not rebellious we see there's a difference between being being needing one space and being rebellious needing one space means okay this is what is happening but I want to do something else rebellious means that not that I need my space it is people feel that I am going to take over your space so that rebellion means those were authority we want to they feel threatened by us or we want to overthrow them so we can get our space without necessarily creating disruption and then we can do it under senior guidance and we can have some ways in which you can have some visible subordination to the local temple also so that way if you are inspired to serve in a particular way and if you have limited time then we can prioritize on our service but then don't expect too many facilities okay so thank you very much for your association today thank you probably if there are probably I have one question I know you have been doing an amazing job publishing the monks podcast become very popular it might be ignorant question but do we do you plan to have any podcast with our Maharaj did you already have any yeah in fact this is the topic community building is a topic on which I have asked Maharaj so Maharaj not yet responded the way that Maharaj responds it will be wonderful to hear from him directly I have shared some understanding but the thing is Maharaj is let's see Maharaj has done some kind of podcast with Gaurang Prabhu but they're more like about Yatra and other things I hope that we can do it soon yes we'll pray okay thank you so much Prabhu so if there are no more questions let's all thank Prabhuji by loudly and enthusiastically chanting Hari bol three times and please unmute yourself and we pray that we get your personal darshan here in Seattle pretty soon Prabhu next year look forward to coming soon we are looking forward to have your association.