186 Expanding online outreach during Covid times The Monk’s Podcast with Amogha Lila Prabhu

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Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

Hare Krishna Mughalapuru. Welcome to the monk's podcast. So nice to have you here.

Thank you. It's a great honor for me because personally I am learning so much from the monk's podcast. I strongly recommend to all the preachers and all the devotees who really want to become more mature in their understanding of Krishna consciousness, whether it is a practical application or preaching application because you bring out the best of the experience from the best of the devotees with their best of understanding in their respective services so beautifully, Prabhuji.

Especially I like the way you sum up everything at the end. That's so lovely, actually. That's so complete.

And I also take so much learning from your websites like the spiritualscientist.com, which is an amazing compendium of so many wonderful concepts being so beautifully answered, Prabhuji. And the geetadaily.com is also my resource for my Bhakti Shastri. Whenever I'm delivering Bhakti Shastri, my first resource after Shri Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita as it is, is the geetadaily.com. And of course, chaitanicharan.com, that's also a very good website, Prabhuji.

Your books are very good, very, very inspirational. So much to learn from these books, your audios. You have answered more than 5,000 questions.

My God. Let me introduce you. You don't have to introduce me over here.

I just want to give my gratitude to you, Prabhuji. From past more than two decades, I'm hearing you and I'm learning from you. So to come to this platform, to the monk's podcast, where I'm a small student, where I'm learning from you and so many great devotees, Prabhuji.

To come here on this platform, it's a great, great honor for me. I feel very small that here my teacher is here, my shiksha guru, Chaitanicharan Prabhuji is there. So that's why I should be, in fact, this should be role reversal.

I should be asking questions. I should hear from you. But it's your humbleness and your kindness that you allowed me to come.

Thank you so much, Prabhuji. Sincere gratitude to you for your wonderful services from past more than two decades. It's really extraordinary.

Thank you. Happy to be of service. And, you know, I believe that we met about maybe 10, 11 years ago.

Once I think you had come to Pune. That was our first meeting. Maybe more than 12, 14 years ago, sometime.

And then we met a few times when you came to Delhi. And whenever I had time to meet Gopal Krishna Maharaj, we would discuss about how the preaching in Delhi is expanding. And it is, I think, we could say in the last two decades of our movement, I think the Delhi outreach would be one of the biggest success stories of our movement.

A lot of things have been happening in various parts of the movement, but Delhi outreach is spectacular. And parallel with that, your personal classes, many devotees have told me that your classes are wonderful. But I think we don't really get to hear classes till this whole social media, till our movement took off on social media.

You have to go out a little off and go out of the way to hear anybody's classes, but on social media, now it's coming up very widely. And in one sense, we have different devotees presenting Krishna Consciousness on social media with varying degrees of reach. What I appreciate about you is three things.

You are presenting straight Krishna Consciousness. So you have an attractive style. You have a, you could say a vibrant energy with you when you present, but at the same time, it's like your direct Krishna Consciousness you're presenting.

Now there are different devotees who can present different aspects of Krishna Consciousness, some from the self-help direction, some from the more narration of Leela direction. But you are presenting Krishna Consciousness directly. And the fact that you are able to attract such a significant audience through direct presentation indicates multiple things.

First is, of course, your capacity to present it attractively. Second is that there is also a need and a hunger for direct devotional content also, direct devotional spiritual content. That is something which I would like to explore with you.

Another is that it's not while your outreach through is very significant, means become very noticeable, but it's also reflective of the overall significant outreach that is happening. So it's like the, you could say the tide is rising in our outreach. And maybe you can say you are the highest way within that tide or the most visible way within that tide, at least on the social media.

So it's both ways. It's in that sense, it's one of the things with somebody who becomes very visible in social media is, okay, somebody becomes attracted, what after that? How are they going to be connected and cultivated further? So when you are already seen as a devotee, and you are a part of a community, then the subsequent journey, it's like from Shraddha towards next steps, Vajanakriya, Sadhusangha, those become easier. So I think that is also something which is very significant, second part is significant.

And third is that you also address contemporary issues. And in general, I sometimes use the word contemporary is equal to controversy. Generally, if you just speak on Shastra, the scope for controversy is not so much.

But if you get into contemporary issues, controversies are sometimes unavoidable. And then how we deal with them is also a challenge. So in that sense, you are not afraid of that.

There is caution, but there is also like paralysis because of too much caution. You're able to address the contemporary issues. I think the way you address this Bangladesh attacks was very good.

Without criticizing any particular religion, you pointed out how this is not what any what kind of God would want anything like this. So it was very, very intelligently done. So I feel that we all learn through experience, how to address contemporary issues.

And I can see that astuteness is coming in you. It's wonderful to have you here. I'm learning from you.

Actually, I saw your video on Bangladesh. I took the content from there. I'm just a stealer.

I'm a thief. You know, sometimes I say there is no copyright to copy is the right. So I also copy from different people.

So maybe we can start with your journey. So you were introduced, how were you introduced to Krishna Consciousness and how did you eventually take up online outreach specifically? How I came through, it's a long story, but I'll just cut it short that I had spiritual inclination reason being I could see that God has given me so much, but I have not given anything back in return as a reciprocation. So any new achievement in my life would suffocate me.

So that's why, so this was building in. So secondly, and I had attraction for the Gita because in NCRT there used to be Gita shloka, a chapter was there. So this shloka, it really captivated my mind because my mind is actually chanchal and stubborn.

So I could see that here is something which is speaking about my inner world. So attraction for the Gita started from NCRT book. And then thirdly, I want to do something for humanity.

So earlier my plan was to become very rich and serve the poor people, but I could see that people are suffering less because of body, but because more because of the mind. So I should do, I should serve the minds of the people, but how to do that, I had no answer for this. Later on when I read the Gita, of course, other than Shri Prabhupada's version of the Gita, I could see that yes, it is really very invigorating.

It is very uplifting for the mind, but of course, Shri Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita was very, most impressive reason being, here I could see that author is very much, he's addicted to God and he wants to give God to people through his writing. So in this way, so these three things were there, my desire to, as a reciprocation of gratitude towards God. So I should reciprocate.

Secondly, I could see the people are suffering, I should serve them and my love for the Gita. So in this way, so I left after 12th class when I passed my 12th standard in search of God. So I met some of the spiritual teachers here and there.

Finally, I reached ISKCON, I got all the answers to all my questions, very impressive questions, very, very impressive answers, authentic scientific answers. So in this way, I got convinced. And then afterwards, of course, I came back, I joined as a monk in the year 2000.

So I stayed for a few months, learned some basic concepts, came back to home, did my computer science graduation and then worked outside in the corporate sector. And then because I had the desire to become a monk, because I had experienced it, so that's why I joined once again. So after 10 years in 2010, back again as a monk, monastery in ISKCON East of Kailash, served there for three years.

And then in 2013, I was transferred to ISKCON Dwarka as a vice president. So now it's been like eight, nine years in ISKCON Dwarka, 13 years in ISKCON East of Kailash, and then eight years or nine years here in Dwarka. So 2002-2022, this is my journey.

That's amazing. So 2000 means you must have been, this was after your 12th you said, so you must be very young at that time. I just passed my 12th.

16-17 is it? 17-18. Yeah, 18-19. Okay.

That's amazing. So at that time I chose Lord Shiva for time being, but later on I discovered that yes, Krishna is a Supreme Personality of Godhead and Shivji is my Guru who has given me Krishna. So it's like that.

Wonderful. So yeah, I heard about this journey on some of your talks earlier, but a couple of things over here, when you, so you felt that the Gita would help you to assist others in dealing with the problems of the mind. Yes.

That was one major aspect of it. Yes. Yes.

Yes, definitely. So did that also shape the way you presented your classes and the way you started doing your outreach? Oh yes, absolutely. Because I could see that there are people who on the name of motivational speaking, they speak some of the concepts, they are connected to the Bhagavad Gita actually.

Everything is directly or indirectly connected to the Bhagavad Gita, but they do not give credit to the Bhagavad Gita. They have their own name, but I could see that this is, this is cheating. They should give credit to the Bhagavad Gita.

So Bhagavad Gita actually, it actually acts on the root. So that's why when we speak authentically from the Bhagavad Gita and you see like in your website, you give such wonderful titles to all of your articles, probably the title in itself is speaking so much and they are all coming from the Bhagavad Gita. So Gitadevi.com in itself is a proof that all solutions can come from Srimad Bhagavad Gita actually.

I don't know about Gitadevi.com, but that's true. I think there are, you know, there is the content and there is the presentation of the content in terms of contemporary language and contemporary concept, you could say, conceptual or contemporary way of thinking. Also, we just need to present appropriately and the Gita does have wisdom that can address current issues.

Yes. And so your services, you said that you are the wise, were you always involved in youth outreach also in East of Kailash? What always, how did you evolve toward the service of online outreach? Actually, it all started in Mayapuram because at that time he had his own desire tree. So they saw me and they said, Prabhuji, we would like to shoot some videos with you.

I said, Prabhuji, I am fool number one. I do not know anything. In Ispa and Mayapur, there are so many intelligent devotees, realized devotees, senior devotees, you please make videos with them.

But since they were very insistent, so I said, okay, all right. Just to please you, I'll do that. Which year was this roughly? This was 2015 around, Prabhuji.

Oh, that was the time when Hare Krishna TV was just taking off. Oh yes, Prabhuji. Yes, yes, yes.

So then they shot some of the videos and by Krishna's mercy, people liked it. Devotees liked it. So again, they came back to Delhi to shoot some of the videos.

So we shot around 40 videos because we hired one hotel room and we gave 6,000 rupees for the hotel. So you were thinking, you know, 6,000 rupees. So let's take full advantage of this money.

So we shot 40 videos in a single day and by Krishna's mercy, they were also liked by the devotees. So in this way, 40 videos more were being shot. So in this way, the journey started and devotees were liking it.

People were liking it. I also addressed some of the issues like ISKCON is an American organization who sends money to America. It was nothing at that time, but somehow by Krishna's mercy, it went very well.

So people could understand it and that's why it all started from there. And then later on, my ashram, which is ISKCON East of Kailash channel. Some people think that it is my channel.

It's not my channel. It is ISKCON East of Kailash channel. And I'm, I may be called a superhero of the channel at the max, but not really the owner of the channel.

But later on, then my ashram came into being, and then we started shooting the videos for my ashram channel. Ashram basically is like a contemporary version of Bhakti Vriksha. So we made this my ashram as the channel's name.

And then from there, it took off further and where it is today, it is growing by Krishna's mercy around 1 million, 1.2 million, we have subscribers in my ashram. Yeah, it's phenomenal. So in, it is in four or five years, that means.

Oh yes. So my ashram around three years back, we started. Really? Three years.

That's amazing. Yeah. Okay.

And so normally do you select what kind of content do you put there or whatever classes you would give you, you put all of them there? Imagine, of course, what we do, we see what are, what is running in the minds of the people in terms of some of the, some of the ambiguities, some of the controversial things in scriptures. So this we seek, and also we read the comments because people say, no, we want a video on this topic. So we go through the comment section as well.

Then other devotee who is Vigyan Vihari Prabhu, who is a person behind the camera, uh, he goes through all these comments and then he says, Prabhuji, no, currently this is running in the minds of people, this we need to address. So then we make a video on that topic. So we, we always try to bring relevance, uh, in our videos more and more.

And that's all, that's all. That is also a reason why people like it. That's, that's true.

And one of the big advantages of social media is that we could always discuss about the virtues and, uh, vices of it. One of the advantages is that it uses a direct way to contact the audience, to speak to the audience and also the audience to speak to us. So that, that is, that is a big advantage as compared to say, if you call it traditional media or legacy media, even if somebody gets such opportunity to speak on TV, it's very difficult for people from TV to contact, uh, to give any kind of feedback or comments, even newspaper articles.

So of course, nowadays, the online newspaper articles, you can have comments by the readers, but this is one big advantage. So, so yes, I seen that video about, is in ISKCON, ISKCON, a Western organization, American organization. It's an interesting topic.

So this, I would say, I can think of broad genres in which you speak. So one is, let me just quickly summarize my understanding and then you can elaborate. One is you could say misconceptions about ISKCON itself.

Yes. Second is you could say misconceptions about broad, uh, Vedic wisdom, Vedic wisdom, Vedic culture. And then third is something like, uh, issues in society today.

It may not be directly related with Vedic culture. Of course you can say everything can be related with Vedic wisdom, but just issues in society today. Yes.

So these are the kinds of content I have seen. Absolutely. Can you share some other examples from what, which of the videos did well and how you chose them? Uh, of course, like some of the videos who, uh, which did well was one was on anger.

Um, this was very common that I'm not able to control anger. So this topic, uh, was also hit and how to wake up early in the morning. There are many people who really struggle to get up early in the morning.

So that also went to millions, but, uh, one problem which precedes even this problem is how to sleep on time. That's also another thing, which people liked it. And, uh, my parenting one where I made the acronym P A R E N T S B for British glamour of Kali Yuga, A for association guard, R for respect as a culture, E for education, E for expectations being realistic and for editing stories, T for tolerance.

So P A R E N T S. So that also became very hit. Uh, in fact, RSS people, they invited me to deliver a session on, on parenting, although my spiritual master, Gopal Krishnamaharaj, when he came to know about this, he said, Oh, you are not married. You don't have children and you're giving sessions on parenting.

So parenting one was also a hit and, uh, some of the similar few, uh, uh, sessions, they were, they were liked by people a lot where I'm, uh, addressing. So it seems overall that something like it's a practical application of spirituality. We can see, Oh yes.

That's the key thing. Even on my website, I have various categories and the category which gets maximum hits is this what it's a section I call practical spirituality. Oh yes.

So there is, there are philosophical controversies of philosophical concepts to be explained, but it's more than that. It's how things can be applied and how can we apply things? So that's, that's, that's what is, uh, what people are in general looking for. Yes.

Yes. Like one video on masturbation was also a very hit it because other speakers, other motivational speakers or some spiritual gurus were saying, okay, do it. You know, sometimes to do it, that's okay.

Instead of raping somebody, uh, you are doing this, that that's, that's fine. Uh, even doctors, they were saying, okay, you know, sometimes, but I said something opposite to that and people liked it. People liked it.

So, uh, I, I received many emails because they are struggling with this habit. So I shared around 10 tips, how to really take care of it and what can gradually become free from it. So that was like by, by people because they are struggling with this.

So again, relevance, we have to create relevance in our presentation. True. And, uh, when, when we have these kinds of topics being addressed, how do you cultivate people further? Is there some course which you have, which they can join afterwards, or is there a pathway for them to move forward after they become interested? Yes.

Actually we run one strip in the bottom of all my videos, kindly register free of cost registration for a course spirituality for modern age for that they can go to www.revivingvalues.com. So there is one red color button register now free of cost registration, and then they become part of SMA, which is spirituality for modern age. So, and then they can, they can, so every week we have one session and based on that session, we have Q and A. So in a way, that means we have what two sessions in a week in SMA. So for example, say if does God really exist.

So second session does God really exist Q and A because in that video, we at the bottom, we also give the Google link so they can post in their questions. So we get the Excel sheet with all the questions. So we take all these questions on a PowerPoint presentation, and then we have a small studio within our Brahmacharya ashram.

So on a PowerPoint slide, they can see the questions and I'm answering them. So in this way, sometimes people send even a hundred questions. So in this way, they get their questions answered.

And this is one of the sessions or this is separate from the sessions. We have what 30 sessions, which are based on topic. And then we go for Bhakti Shastra like Bhagavad Gita and Bhakti Samyama Sindhu, Bhakti Shastra.

And then we'll continue into Srimad Bhagavatam Chaitanya Chaitanya. So SMA is going to be unending. It would go on and on.

So this is how SMA is not like a cyclic thing, which, which is, it's, you have a specific set of topics, 30 topics, which you keep repeating, or there are different topics every day. Yes. So we have got 30 topics that we deliver.

And after delivering these 30 topics, along with their Q&A, respective Q&As, then we go for Bhakti Shastra. Now sessions, Q&A, again sessions, Q&A. So we continue with this format.

So a hundred question answers would take a long time, isn't it? Yeah. Some of the like beginning sessions, the people ask a lot of questions. Later on, the number of questions, they decrease as they get in.

By the time they reach Bhagavad Gita, almost all of their questions are done. So like in Bhagavad Gita, we do not have much of Q&A because more or more, all the questions are being answered, but, but this is how we do. And we registered around 25,000 people in the course.

So those who are continuing there around, say 8,000 to 10,000, who are, who have crossed all the levels. And we encourage them wherever you are. What are all the, all the levels means? Means like we have got all the 30 sessions, they are into like level one, level two, level three, level four, and the level five, they get into Bhagavad Gita.

So they cross all the levels because he also got quiz. They are to pass with 70% marks. If they score 70% marks, then they can go to the next level.

They can reattempt the paper. They can do that. But then in this way, we check the sincerity also of the listeners.

So in this way, they go to the next level and next level like that. So this is how we do. And in between, we also call them for some retreats because now it is all happening on impersonal media.

So we call them, okay, we are having Vrindavan retreat. So those who want to come, they can kindly come. Amoghilapur would be joining us.

So this is how we spread the news. And then they also join us. And then they can also personally interact with me, whether in Vrindavan, in Jaipur or some other places we take to them, take them for retreat.

So there's also personal connection with them. This is wonderful. So this is mainly for youth or it's for everyone? Everyone, everyone.

Oh, okay. Yes. We tell the devotees or those who are part of our SMA, wherever you are living, you connect to the local temple.

Amoghilapur is your exclusive authority. He's your Guruji, exclusive connection to Guru Parampara. No, it is not like that.

Wherever they are, they can connect to their local temple, contribute there, serve there, hear from there. But in between they can be part of SMA, spirituality for modern age. They can learn, they can ask questions, but they should serve in their local temple like that.

And so you are getting people mostly from the Delhi area, from all over India or how is it? Yeah, we're all over the world probably. We have people from Australia, New Zealand, from Russia, from Europe, but they are Hindi speaking because the course is in Hindi because my popularity is more in Hindi speaking audience. So that's why the course is in Hindi.

So those who are, even those who are Indians who are staying abroad, they enroll in the course, but this course is not currently in English. No, I'm inspired. One of the things is that I was more of a, I speak more based on inspiration and specific topics.

I have not designed systematic courses to take the audience forward from one level to another. That is just the way I work, but this is inspiring the way we have done it. I think Radheshyam Prabhu was one of the first persons in our movement to have very systematic structured multilevel courses.

So you have taken that to a much broader level. Sankarshan Prabhu also has done something online. He's also very big at the same time.

So this SMA, you started from when, after 2017-18 or 10,000 students you have done in how much time? Yeah, we enrolled these 25,000 students in total in past one and a half years. One and a half years? Yes. Oh, okay.

During pandemic time. So we got a lot of students. Now, of course it's coming up because we also tell the students they can inspire others.

They have friends and all. So it becomes a chain reaction and more and more students can take advantage of the course because it is free of cost. Oh, okay.

That's wonderful. And how much is the, how many people do you say out of 10,000 people, do you have any way of checking how many people move forward in their spiritual journey and connect with the devotees or anything like that? So we have our local mentors. So local mentors, they are also in touch with them.

They can send their queries and they also tell us about their report and they are sincere. And the good thing about internet preaching is that we don't have to work hard on creating interest in the person. Already interested people, they come.

So they do not need much of supervision, much of attention, much of counseling because they are already interested. So that's the advantage of internet. Okay.

So the content of this course, this is not available on YouTube. This is people have to join for the course and they will get it. Yes, yes, yes.

Okay. And what kind of topics do you take within this? So we have all these seven day sessions and then apart from that, from idol worship, idol worship, we take from your book. So these kind of topics are there.

So like about idol worship, about service attitude, about Krishna consciousness versus social work. So these kind of topics which we usually deliver with the youth. So these are commonly asked questions.

Oh, okay. So we have these, so these, we have sessions around say 45 minute sessions. And then we have Q and A on based on that topic.

It's wonderful. And you conduct all the courses in this? Yeah. Okay.

We have a plan to introduce more teachers as well, but later on so that once people become stable, they can listen from other speakers as well. And because they come because of me, they came because of me that, okay, Amoghila Bhuv is going to teach the course. So we also take care of that emotional part of theirs that they came for this reason.

So that's why I teach them till Bhakti Shastri. And then as we will introduce Srimad then we would ask you also, we would also ask Adityanath Prabhuji and some of the senior Vaishnavans to come and address them. In between also, we have their sessions.

Like we have some of their recorded videos in between. We also give to them so that they can listen to other devotees as well. They should not see that Iskcon means Amoghila Prabhu, Amoghila Bhuv means Iskcon.

They should not have this mis-equation. No, it's not a mis-equation. It has to move from specific to broad.

You cannot have broad initially because ultimately we are a personal tradition. So there has to be a personal connection. So on an average, this SMA series, how many times have you completed this 30 sessions? In February, we are going to start the third batch.

Okay. 30 means about, it would take about seven months or something like that. Oh yes.

So every six months or so, as we see the number is increasing, so then we start a batch. So in one batch, roughly how many students do you get for one class like this, if you have? Yes, Prabhuji. So in the first batch, somewhere around 7,000 to 8,000 were there, Prabhuji.

So what platform? That's amazing. What platform did you use then? YouTube, Prabhuji. Oh, it is streamed live on YouTube, but it's not available on YouTube afterwards? Yes.

Yes, Prabhuji. Yes. Oh, okay.

That's good. So you don't need a separate resource. Okay.

Wonderful. And Bhakti Shastri also, some students have come to develop Bhakti Shastri now? Yes, Prabhuji. Currently, we are on Bhagavad Gita chapter 10.

So your general outreach, you have always been doing in Hindi? Yes. English is also quite fluent. And I've seen you speak English, now also you're speaking, but I've seen you speak in Hindi primarily because that's your preference or that's the audience need or both? Actually, in the beginning, during his fond, desiratory days, I said, okay, should I speak in English? They said, no, no, no, Prabhu, for English, there are many devotees.

We want some Hindi person. I said, okay. So because in Hindi started, so the momentum was into the Hindi direction.

So I then went to Hindi. So of course, English, I'm okay. But Hindi, of course, I'm more Bindas.

I'm more, I speak as a local Hindi language. I'm not very formal in my speaking Hindi. So I like, sometimes I use Hindi, like sweet slangs, like say for example, say Bhatura or say Bhangra and people like it.

So that's why Hindi is the thing. But yes. But I'm learning from your lectures, Prabhuji.

Your English is absolutely fabulous, Prabhuji. You have actually ornamented this language. Really so poetic and so absolutely creative.

English language is honored really by your blessings. It's superb the way you present concepts with absolutely right kind of words. Fabulous.

I don't know about that, but ultimately we all have our particular areas, which we use in service of Krishna. So for me, just like a Pujari will offer flowers to the deities. So I think of words as like my flowers.

Wow. So the word that I try to offer to Krishna, I try to beautify Krishna as much as possible through the words. And that's my service in one sense.

That's super classy, Prabhuji, super classy, absolutely fabulous. So now when you, so it's like what I had earlier said that you're presenting in one sense, direct Krishna consciousness. So does this lead to a certain model? So what kind of audience are you attracting? Is it primarily youth? What education or have you looked at the demographic of the kind of people who come? Because in one sense, if you have Katha, a lot of people come for that.

And that's a different demographic. And then in one sense, you can say what you are giving is, it's philosophic and practical. So what kind of demographic are we attracting? So primarily, my focus is to focus on pious Hindus.

There are many, many millions and millions of pious Hindus actually. And they are living in the material world as well. So that's why.

So I try to maintain that balance that because they are pious already. So that like, for example, Mahabharata and Ramayana series, it received amazing amount of applause and appreciation. The reason being people like Mahabharata and Ramayana.

And at that time, pandemic was happening. So Ramayana and Mahabharata had the highest viewership. So when I also delivered my sessions in a very dramatic way, so people liked it.

So my focus was to attract the audience, which is pious Hindus. But sometimes I also address the atheists as well. And I know they are atheists.

They're not really very deeply atheists. Just because, you know, because of education. In one sense, in India, if you see that there may be people who are very atheistic, but those are not the kind of audience who even will consider coming to our programs.

There are more like people who are circumstantially atheistic. Absolutely, Prabhuji. Yes.

They've heard some things. It's more of, you could say natural piety is there, but it's covered over by some intellectual misconceptions. Absolutely, yes.

We remove the misconceptions and then actually act on their piety. Yes. So that's why I try to address that section as well, sometimes.

And they also like it. I'm not praising myself, but once I was there, I met some students from Delhi university and they were from the left wing, you know, this liberals and communists kind of attitude. And there were 500 people, actually, they had this club.

And after listening to my lectures, they said, Prabhuji, we had changed our ideology. We have become more devotional actually, just by listening to your lectures. So what I'm saying is that the people are ready.

It is just that there's a very thin veneer, very thin covering. It just needs some addressing, some logical answers, and with a sense of care behind it, that that really touches people. And then they come actually.

In this way, there are many, many people, they are, they have changed their, this aggressive anti-Hindu, anti-Sanatan ideology. And they have come to the fold of Sanatan Dharma, that's because we are addressing that part. Atheism or being agnostic, why God did bad to me.

So these kinds of some small, small misconceptions are there. So we address them and then very good results, probably. That's wonderful.

Currently, when you, when we talk, sometimes we as a movement are seen a little bit as different from Hindus. And sometimes we seem to be very confronting other groups of other Hindu groups. So how do you come, how do you address that issue? So I was reading a book, so the same question was asked, he said, we just address the concept, not the person.

So I also address the concept or the misconception with somebody's understanding. Like somebody said, well, Krishna and Rama, they are not entities. They are just group of attributes.

So there are people I know, but they say like that. But once we address, so that particular audience, which is following this kind of ideology, so then they can connect to it, that yes, actually this is nonsense, that Krishna and Rama are not entities, what an insult. They are just group of attributes.

So I address to the conceptions like that. So then people connect it. It works.

Wonderful. Like one thing which I address about Sadhguru, so I was very respectful to Sadhguru as well. When he said that Mother Yashoda, her love became divine love, it was not divine love.

So in a very humble way, and I also prayed for him that his attempt to get this South Indian temples into the local devotees instead of the government. So I also prayed for him. And so with all humbleness, I presented, but at the same time, I also addressed the issue.

So that was also liked by the devotees that here is a culture of respect, even though there is disagreement, but this disagreement has been presented in a humble way. So people liked it a lot. It is so important.

One of the things which I have recognized over the last few years, especially since when I started traveling abroad, especially that there are different aspects to people. There is a cultural aspect, there is a social humanitarian aspect, there is a philosophical aspect. So philosophically we may have differences, but culturally we may be able to work on similar causes or at a social level, we will do work on similar causes.

And that is something which we can have shared interest with many other spiritual groups also and spiritual teachers also. So I think Prabhupada also when he met Dr. Mishra of the Yoga Studio, he said that, he told Giriraj Maharaj that culturally, philosophically, we argue like anything, but culturally we are friends. So that differentiation is beautiful.

So you're already applying that. And in general, with respect to the broader Hindu community, I feel there are three, four issues which come up. One is our criticism of other teachers.

So I think people appreciate the fact that there are philosophical differences. So there's a difference between challenging philosophical conceptions and criticizing people as such. So when the second is done, then it becomes a problem.

The first is it can be done. And India is known to be having a rich philosophical tradition. So I don't think that becomes a big problem.

If you're just careful enough to differentiate between the two. The second is, say, the worship of the Devatas. You mentioned earlier that for you, Lord Shiva was your Guru who brought, in one sense, pointed you to Krishna.

Yes. So how do you address the worship of the Devatas? So I said that they are devotees of the Lord and devotees should be given all respect. So in case if we pass through a temple, which is of the demigod temple, we should bow down.

We should seek their blessings. And oh please, oh great demigod, please bless me that I may become very sincere devotee of Lord Krishna. I may even pray to Mother Saraswati.

Oh Mother Saraswati, please bless me so that I become intelligent enough. Give me the right understanding of Srimad Bhagavatam. So we also pray to Mother Saraswati.

So that's why we should pray to the demigods for pure devotion. So we should not criticize them. Oh, you know, they are Sakam, Bhaktas and this and that.

Krishna is Supreme Lord. That is very immature presentation of Krishna conscious philosophy. So Krishna says that the demigod worshippers, they may not be, they are not so intelligent.

Those whose intelligence is stolen by the material desires. But he never criticized the demigods. But sometimes immature preachers, they criticize the demigods as well.

They are great personalities. Yes. And even the worshippers of the Devatas, we can say that they are less intelligent, but less intelligent is not unintelligent.

Absolutely. They are also intelligent enough to recognize that there is some higher deity and it needs to be worshipped. Yeah, it's true.

So now, apart from that, one of the areas, I think this could be a major part of our discussion also now that there is a lot of humanitarian work, which in general, people expect religious organizations to do. Yes. Because what happens is, like we earlier talked about practical spirituality, that as to some extent, society has moved away from not entirely, but significantly, not so many people are philosophically inclined.

Yes. So they want to see what your movement is, your tradition, your religion is contributing to the world. Yes.

Because they contribute apart from conflict. Religions are often seen as a source of conflict. So in one sense, this humanitarian work can be a distraction from spirituality, but it can also be a pathway to spirituality for many people.

And the exact term we may use is different. But one of the things which I believe that apart from the online outreach expansion, I think there has been a lot of outreach during the COVID time that has also happened during this. So sometimes our criticism of humanitarian work leads to alienation of a lot of thoughtful people.

As you said, pious Hindus also want to do something good. So how has this been addressed overall? Maybe first you can start with what all was done during COVID because that was a big thing. Oh, yeah.

So during COVID pandemic, especially wave two was very, very deadly. Wave one, of course, was very expansive, but wave two was very deadly. And during this period, when we help people giving them prasadam, so that was very, very impressive.

In fact, first time maybe the drone was used by the devotees to deliver prasadam because somebody is staying in skyscraper building, somebody is on 20th floor, the lady is pregnant, the person is old, they cannot come down because they're quarantined. And they cannot cook, they cannot go outside because the shops are closed. It was a very precarious situation.

So in such a case, we even delivered prasadam with the drone. The drone goes to the 20th floor and then we all give a call, Hare Krishna Mataji, in your balcony there is prasadam. Oh my God, suddenly God has sent this prasadam.

I think that was viral on social media also. So how many did you use actually to use, deliver using drones? Many, we actually hired many of the drones, many drones we hired. And we gave them training also to those who are transferring it so that they do not mess it here and there.

Of course, drone also has got this inbuilt system that it doesn't collide with something. When it goes near and then maybe say five meter or 10 meter or so, then it stops, even if you are pressing the button of the jockey, but still it doesn't go there. So in this way, we delivered prasadam, Prabhuji.

And so every day around 5,16,000 plates of prasadam has been distributed. And India Book of Records, they came and counted. Somebody may say these ISKCON people are exaggerating figures.

They are very expert in that. But no, we are not exaggerating. Here is a party who is outside ISKCON, India Book of Records, they came and then they recorded that 5,16,000 plates were distributed every single day.

And whenever it was being distributed, uh, so over there, Kirtan was also happening. Not all in all the places, but yes, in many other places, devotees are doing Kirtan and distributing prasadam. And we also used to have a stall of Bhagavad Gita.

Anybody wants to purchase Bhagavad Gita, they can come and they can also purchase. That was also very good. And we employed more than thousand e-rickshaws.

So we, so these e-rickshaws would carry prasadam to various places and, uh, there would be a place that those who are suffering from COVID in a surrounding area, they would come to this place, make a queue, take the food, take the prasadam. So, and they could see that it is such a healthy prasadam. It was not wishy-washy attempt.

No, it was actually very good quality prasadam which was being served. So they liked this as well. And Kirtan was happening, book distribution was happening.

So the footfall, uh, actually increased in between when you opened the temple, many people came just to say, thank you, Ashley. And we have COVID care center in COVID care center. We, uh, we cured more than 2,700 patients, even with oxygen level 60.

And what we were given, uh, how did you cure means what medical facilities are provided. We have, we, we had this college in college that is hostel because colleges are closed. So hostel is now available to us.

So we requested, uh, the college college. So they have a hostel there, boys hostel, girls hostel. We also have NSUT, Netaji Subhash University of Technology.

So there also the hostels were available. So we made the beddings. We had some basic facility, like for example, say oxygen cylinders and all.

And, uh, we used to give them very healthy prasadam with spices. We used to give them prasadam as well. And then, uh, we also used to have keep them with them.

A devotee would go with PPE kit and we'll do keep them, uh, for them and they're going into each of the rooms and then we keep them and telling them about the Holy name and all 2,700 people who came to our COVID center, when they left, they were having the beat back and they were chanting Hare Krishna Mahamudra that we are so grateful to ISKCON that they have helped us in this difficult time. And all of them, they, they, they were chanting. In fact, they were, they were hesitant to leave.

They were saying, no, can't I stay for a few more days? Doctor would say, but excuse me, you are done. You are cured. There is no more COVID in you.

Uh, three more days, just three more days, just three more days. And then they would stay there. And then, uh, they would relish to keep them, have prasadam.

Of course we would give them a medication as well. But in this way, there was not even a single casualty, not even a single casualty. In fact, government was very thankful to us that, uh, the hospitals are already overloaded with so many patients.

And here is a facility which has been created that in case you're not very chronically ill, you come to, uh, ISKCON's COVID care center, and then you get COVID cured. And that's wonderful. In fact, one of those, uh, person who left our COVID care center, he went to the hospital.

He had to leave his body. He was saying that the, the, the family members were thinking that we, uh, would that he was there in ISKCON's COVID care center. He was, he was improving.

So we used to give them prasadam and some medicines and kirtan and they were chanting Hare Krishna. So many of them, not even a single casualty. In fact, all the devotees were involved in this project.

Not even a single person got COVID, even though they were cooking, they were distributing, they were going there. They were giving prasadam to the COVID patients, but not even a single person got COVID. This was in the second wave or the first year or both? First wave probably, first wave and second wave as well.

Yes. But primarily we distributed food in first wave because that was very expensive. So that way we see that a lot of goodwill was being created.

When somebody asks us what you are doing for society, I was traveling in a metro train. So one lady, she challenged me, you Hare Krishna people, what are you doing for the society? I said, well, we could distribute only 4.5 crore plates of prasadam. That's the only we could do.

Not much. She said, what? So then she, all of that aggression, which she had against ISKCON, it got mitigated in a second. She said, okay, 4.5 crores.

I said, you can come. I'm not exaggerating. You can come and see our entire park.

We converted the entire park into a kitchen and anybody could come and see that we are not exaggerating figures. It is actually happening like that. So a lot of goodwill happened all across the globe.

People appreciated that. Yes, they're not a sect, a cult. They also have a heart.

They also care for people. And then once they connect, then, you know, once connect, convey, convince as you know, Prabhuji. So once connect happens and convey and convince take very little effort.

You know, when we tell them, we are not the body, we are soul, they would say, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, you saved my life. Thank you so very much.

Yes, we are not the body. We are soul. People accept the philosophy as well.

So for connect, this was required. So sambandh abhidaya prayojan, so sambandh happened. This connect happened.

So abhidaya prayojan become easier because of the sambandh. So was all this done through ISKCON or through some sister organization, which was this forum that was formed directly through ISKCON itself? Yes. And the credit goes to my, my temple president.

His name is Pradyumna Priya Prabhuji. He actually took the initiative. He being very compassionate.

He said, I will get my money in case the donation would not come, then I will get the money. I'll spend my own money. He's an investor.

He spent lots and lots, crores and crores of rupees of his. He even took, he borrowed money from his friend so that he can do this. So it was a great sacrifice on his end.

He planned it, that let's do it on, on any level, because currently humanity needs us. So taking inspiration from Srila Prabhupada, he's known as Gopalakrishna Maharaj. He did this and that happened really very, very well.

So was this all the Delhi temples or specifically Dwarka or how was it? Dwarka, Dwarka specifically. We did it, Prabhuji. All across India, we distributed around 6 crore, 75 lakh plates of sanctified food prasadam.

And Dwarka alone distributed around 4.5 crores. In all the three waves, we distributed 4.5 crores. It is still happening.

It's still happening. Now on lower scale, of course, but 4.5 crores plates. And this was in the, all over Delhi or how far did you reach extent? Yes, primarily it was in Delhi.

But Delhi is also a big place, all over Delhi or which part of Delhi? Delhi NCR is big, big means very big. So all over Delhi more or less? Yes, all over Delhi. So when the government, you said that they appreciated also the Delhi government or the national government or both? Both of them.

Both of them, yes. Amazing. And where did you have some infrastructure for this before also? No, Prabhuji, we had no infrastructure.

We created there and then we reserved this park. We took the permission that we want to cook. They said, yeah, yeah, permission is there.

Please go for it. And then earlier we were doing it in a small setup, in one basement setup, but the way the demand was coming. So it started with 2,000 and 5,000 and gradually it reached 5,16,000.

So then entire park was there, where we had the sheds and then cooking was happening. Offered to Lord Jagannath, so that people may have prasadam of Lord Jagannath. Oh, okay.

And when we did all this, this was for, you said it's still going on. So this has been going on for how many months then like that? Yeah, since wave one, it is happening. It is going on, Prabhuji.

Now, because people have this image, people know that in case you are in Delhi and you get COVID, you must go for ISKCON. So that's why people know this. So in fact, the Delhi government, they appointed ISKCON Dwarka.

They gave the tag as mother NGO. So we got the tag from the Delhi government so that people may be inspired to give donations as well, because we were spending around 80 lakhs to 1 crore rupees every day because each plate cost us around 20 rupees, including the fuel, the ingredients, the cooking, the transfer. Each plate costs us around 20 rupees.

So 5 lakh multiplied by 20 makes 1 crore. So every day, 1 crore rupees were being spent. So in fact, we were in debt.

Some of the vendors, they were saying, oh, when are you giving us money? So somewhere, we are still, we have to give money. 4.5 crore rupees, 7 crore rupees, 10 crore rupees, 3 crore rupees. We are giving them gradually the money.

Donations are coming, please be here with us. But they know that ISKCON is an organization, which we trust. We know that donations are less in number, but they are spending much more.

So they also gave that, okay, you take it, but give us money. We are still paying them money, 5 lakh rupees, 2 lakh rupees, but the debt is off. It's in crores, actually.

We are still in debt, but they know that, okay, money will come. But we had to do that. That we had less of donations, but more of expenditure.

This is extraordinary. And do you, do you have a written report of all this where devotees can read or viewers can read about this? Because I had an understanding of the outreach that you are doing, but the scale, I had no idea. I think it should be there with my temple president.

It should be there with him. No, but this is something which is worth, like having some articles written about it and you could publish them back to Godhead and other places also. Yes.

Yes. We did this for you. We posted some of the videos on YouTube because people are nowadays primarily on YouTube.

Yes. So many of the videos were being posted in between whenever, whenever we are cooking, we are, we are packing it, we are distributing it. So we, we made many videos in between.

So media also got in media, we gave, we got, we got a lot of very good coverage because in Delhi, 90% of food was being distributed. More than 90% was being done by ISKCON actually. And other organizations, they were also doing no doubt, but but 89, 90% was being done by ISKCON.

Of course, social media means YouTube. It's good. I have seen some videos also, but still I was not aware of the scale and this is something which needs to be preserved.

So, so sometimes I was, we discussed this topic because we talk about humanitarian outreach and expression of compassion. Sometimes it's, it leads to, it, we sometimes have a very, again, one thing into everything. See, in one sense, Prabhupads or in our tradition, if there has been some criticism of social, of humanitarian work, it has, it has to be very carefully understood.

It is not criticism of humanitarian work. It is criticism more of humanitarian work as a replacement for devotional service, as a superior substitute for devotional service. So if it is, but otherwise it's like, this is humanitarian work, this is devotional service.

If you say that this is humanitarian work, you do this, no need to do this. That is where it's a problem. But devotional service can be expressed through humanitarian work.

Absolutely. And humanitarian work can also be a pathway to devotional service for people. Yes.

Yes. So that, this two dynamics, often we don't talk about this. This is wonderful.

And so this is my understanding of how you, because from what I saw is that you it's been prasad distributed, not just food. So did you or any of the members in your team had some reservations about doing this? No, no. Like in Dwarka, we live like family.

So whatever comes from authority, Pradhamna Peepu, we trust him. We know that he's very selfless soul. He's very intelligent as well.

He's really blessed. So that's why there was no resentment, no opposition. He said, yes, in case that's opinion, okay, let's go for it.

And so that's why everyone was working like a family. Of course, privately congregation devotees were involved. Brahmacharis were doing some kind of some back-end seva, like for example, say some inventory stuff, seeing the inventory, okay, how much stock we have because such big level cooking is happening.

So that's the thing. Of course, and we see that everything like sometimes, of course we, some of the people they criticize and it's, it's a mundane work. It's not really very spiritual.

So I used to tell them, you know, everything in the beginning is like mundane. Like our japa, when we chant japa, not that, you know, from day one, there is ecstasy, my hairs are standing on end. That doesn't happen on day one.

Even when people see the deities, they see more of marvel. Later on, they realize that, yeah, no, the Lord is present there. So that's why everything has got in the, in the beginning, that's more mechanical.

That's not, that may not be very divine right from the very beginning, but we should see that everything is, it starts like that only. Whether even having prasadam, in the beginning, we take prasadam more as rasgulla, paneer, pizzas. Later on, as the person evolves in consciousness, he is able to see the divinity in the prasadam.

So gradually it evolves. So similarly, it goes for compassion as well. Sometimes we discourage devotees.

No, don't show compassion on mundane level, show it on divine level, spiritual level. So it has to start on mundane level somewhere. And in case if the heart is not soft, what kind of bhakti is this? You know, if I'm not moved by seeing the suffering of other people, what kind of bhakti am I doing actually? Like I remember one of the anecdotes from Rajashank Prabhuji.

One person came to him and he said, you know, I want to join full-time. And then Prabhuji asked him, well, what's the qualification you have that you want to join full-time? He said, well, when my wife died, I did not shed even a single drop of tear. I said, okay, that means you are emotionally bankrupt.

What kind of brahmachari would you become? Because you are emotionally bankrupt. So sometimes on the name of this not showing mundane compassion, somebody is showing that we are emotionally bankrupt. If I'm emotionally bankrupt, how can I offer emotions to God? Because I'm bankrupt.

What can I offer? So that is if, even if it is on mundane level, but that is mixed with spirituality as well, because there is chanting Hare Krishna, there is prasadam, there is Bhagavad Gita as well, creating goodwill. Like in some of the government sectors, the people are so welcoming now. They say, oh, you are those ISKCON people who distributed prasadam during the time of COVID.

You know, my wife was also having COVID and they help us. Like, for example, if I have to go for Janmashtami, they say, yeah, yeah, please. Where are the papers signed? Good job done.

So this way we get a favor from the government authorities as well for any kind of devotional favor we see, if you want. So overall it was very good, actually. So somewhere it starts on mundane level, all things happen and gradually it evolves into more spiritual, more divine and spiritually intensive.

Yeah. You know, it's when we have to analyze things, we could put it in some way that rather than simply looking at the content of what is being done, we'd also look at the context in which it is being done. Why is it being done? And what is the result of doing it? So it's not at the same action, everywhere will have the same results.

Yes, for some people, they may do a philanthropic work and they may have no interest at all in anything spiritual. Yes, yes. So I remember one organization, I read on post, they were like double code there.

God sends disasters, we send relief. Oh my God. So that is completely atheistic, not atheistic, but antithistic.

So the content of what one is doing is important, but the context, why are we doing it? And what is the result? So why we are doing it is because we want to assist people at every level. We want to serve and help people at every level. Yes.

And as you said, the connection will happen, usually it will happen at the bodily level. Yeah. And from there, it will move to the spiritual level.

Yes, yes. You cannot say that I care only for your soul. I don't care for your body.

Absolutely. Yeah. And as you said, the consequence also is important.

Actually, our Acharya has also done this, like Shila Bhakti Siddhant Siddhanta Prabhupada, he would distribute food. He wouldn't even ask, today prasada was okay, but the salt was okay. Like we read in this Bhakti Siddhanta Vaibhav by His Holiness, he used to do this prasadam distribution.

He would even ask, you know, I've asked prasadam, okay, you liked it. So he would ask. And Shila Prabhupada also, when he was in New York, he told devotees, distribute prasadam.

At that time, 200 people would come, these hippies and different people, they would come and they would have prasadam. And then in the various, on various levels, Shila Prabhupada said we should distribute prasadam. Like this food for life started with this thing.

When there were some boys, some, some old people, they were, they were licking the plates in Mayapur Dham. And then Shila Prabhupada looked from his window and then he said, from 10 kilometer radius of his contemple, nobody should go hungry. So that means he actually cared for distribution of prasadam.

Like in Africa, this is how we connect. There are people who are poor and we give them prasadam, we make them chant Hare Krishna. In Africa, this is how preaching is happening.

Like in Kenya, Mombasa, many of the places people connect because we give them prasadam and make them chant Hare Krishna. So here, there is the two things over here that we would like to make sure that we are giving spirituality along with our sharing of, our sharing of some like food and other things. Yes.

But at the same time, it is not that we are making it conditional. Yeah. It's not that if you don't do this, we will not give you this.

The prasadam is given to everyone because there is this, now Christianity is also very big and Christians convert in different ways. One of the ways is that they have education and then they challenge you and they convert, but at some level, they start to convert people by giving them material benefits. But that is quite conditional.

You know, you come to our hospital and then you get converted over here. So you can take treatment and get converted. So our purpose in one sense is service and we provide facility.

People are inspired, then they take it up. Absolutely. So it's not so much that, so we could say humanitarian work is an expression of ours.

Ultimately, bhakti is a matter of reciprocation. So we are expressing the devotion and the service that we are having because of our tradition, our bhakti. And then the way people wish to reciprocate, they can reciprocate.

It's not that we are expecting or insisting or demanding something. But the good thing is that we were distributing prasadam without asking their religion. They're giving to everyone.

And even they were Muslims, also they were chanting Hare Krishna because, you know, my wife is suffering from COVID. I give them prasadam. So when we say, okay, everyone say Hare Krishna, they would also say Hare Krishna.

Even some of the e-rickshaw walas, they were Muslims and they were distributing prasadam. And used to have for all the e-rickshaw walas, we would have, okay, let's do kirtan. They would also do kirtan.

They would dance with the devotees, naturally, not by force. They could say that, yes, we are doing good work. So even other religions, people, they also appreciated this thing because at the end, you know, when somebody is suffering, then all this missionary thing, it goes, yeah, we are serving humanity selflessly without demanding conversion.

We convert people from materialist to spiritualist, as you mentioned in your books as well. We also convert people, but not like from a Christian materialist to a Hindu materialist, not that kind of conversion, but from materialist to a spiritualist, that kind of conversion, of course we do that, but that's on a different level. That we don't enforce, we don't push people to do this.

We inspire them. So when we did this outreach, has this also, in one sense, this happened at the more or less same time when you are doing online outreach also? Oh yes, this was in parallel, this was happening. So temple president was doing food distribution and temple vice president was doing Mahabharata Ramayana.

Amazing. So these things were happening in parallel. Yeah.

One of the fears over here is that, that once we get involved in humanitarian activities, that our energies may get diverted there, but you can clearly see that was not what was happening. In one sense, you were, you were doing outreach. In fact, your outreach was also expanding in a substantial way.

And was there some kind of breach or that also naturally happened? Like people who were treated, helped during COVID times, they would also inquire about and they joined your courses. Yes, of course. So people come there because as you become healthy, then they become connected to ISKCON and as you go to ISKCON and they type any topic with the name ISKCON, then by somehow Krishna's arrangement or by, of course, by Krishna's arrangement, the engine highlights some of the videos of our ISKCON videos, either my video or Gaur Gaur Kapoor's video or Radhanath Maharaj's video, it would, it would pop up.

So then they start seeing it and then they start getting connected. And once they start, we've seen the video. So they, they also see the course that the strip is running at the bottom.

Oh, okay. So then they also, yes, this happens. Our, our counseling number that is also helping people.

So they can, they can, they can contact us and then we do some basic counseling and then make them chat. In case somebody wants the counseling in, in, in French. So we would give the number of the devotee in France that here's someone who is, they are connected to your temple, who's in, who's in France.

They can, so you can address it. So in this way, this counseling thing is also. Yeah.

Okay. I mean, why would somebody want in France in their, in their people, French tourists in India or people in France? Let's just give the example. Somebody from South India, somebody from North India, somebody needs counseling in Punjabi.

So we have got some devotees in Punjab. So you can talk to them. So in this way, we were also connecting people.

So they, they can, in their areas, they can contact them, counsel them, connect them to their local centers. Like that. Amazing.

And currently when we, so is this something which you're planning to continue on? Of course the scale may be different, but the food outreach is something you're planning to continue on? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Because of course, Prabhuji, our temple president also has a desire.

Also Delhi government has, has given us this tag, mother NGO. So mother has to be a mother. Mother can't retire from motherhood.

So is mother NGO like an official label for a major organization? Yes, yes, yes. Those who are significantly contributing. So we'll continue being mothers.

Actually, sometimes when we get too caught in the philosophy, the practical, practical aspect of helping society, that sometimes gets lost. And we are to do this reason, if we want the Hare Krishna to become the world religion or entire world accepts it, we have to take care of the people at all the levels. And when we do that, then of course people would come.

If we only present the esoteric part, then of course, some very pious, very, very philosophical people would get connected to us. But general masses, they're also waiting for Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's mercy. So we are to see how we can connect with them and then give them Lord Chaitanya's mercy.

We don't do that. Yeah. Like Bhakti Sahab Maharaj used to have kirtans on piano, using piano on radio during his times.

Sometimes he was Bhakti Sahab Maharaj. Oh, okay. Yeah.

It's given in Bhakti Sahab's labhav. So he used to have, so when somebody says, Amoghila Prabhu, you have done innovation that you preach even from radio, Radio Nasha 107.0. Wow. I said, no, sir, I'm not a pioneer.

Pioneer is our glorious Acharyas like Srila Bhakti Siddhanta, Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada. He did this preaching from radio and there he allowed even kirtan with piano, with some kind of Western instruments as well, so that people can connect to it. And that's how he used to do that.

Yeah. Amazing. And presently, how much, so you've seen that this is a sustainable way of both doing, you could say, spiritual outreach as well as, I don't want to use the material outreach, but humanitarian outreach.

So both are going on and you feel the space you can sustain? Oh, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We can sustain it because people are coming, people are getting connected and they are there.

They are ready to help. Although we are still running in debt, but yes, gradually that would be paid off. But that's the way we are connecting to the society.

And so result is good. Funena Parichiyate, actions are judged by result. So result is very good.

People are becoming Krishna conscious. They are chanting Hare Krishna. They are coming to the temple.

Like when we opened our temple in between, the footfall actually increased. So it's going very well. Amazing.

And let's take a little broader picture. Since you have been now involved more than 10-15 years in outreach at a very broad level also, what do you feel are the major challenges? What is it that stops people from taking up bhakti? Or is there something more you would like to speak about the outreach during COVID or something? Okay. I request many devotees that they should come to a social media platform because currently people are on social media.

Where people are there, we should go and address them there. Sometimes devotees, they do not come in front because they say, no, Prabhuji, we should be humble. So humble means we should stay on background.

We should not go there. You know, popularity, fame, this, that, you will be spoiled, this, that. So firstly, Shri Prabhupada used to say one of the definition of humility.

He said, humility means becoming aggressive for Krishna. That's one of the definition of humility, becoming aggressive for Krishna. So we should also become aggressive for Krishna.

And that is humbleness. Not always saying, no, I'm small. I'm insignificant.

I'm fallen. Yeah. Okay.

That's a beautiful feeling. Apart from that, we should become aggressive for Krishna. So they do not come to social media platform.

There are some great preachers. I'm like a small bacteria before them. But they come and they can actually influence so many devotees.

So somewhere I would request the preachers that they should also come to social media platforms and they should also address. If they do that, that will be very, very good. And of course, we might be lacking in some skill.

So we can learn that skill. Absolutely fine. We can do that.

And we should also innovate. Sometimes there's a struggle between innovation and deviation. Whenever something new comes and people would say, oh, that's a deviation, but that can be an innovation as well.

Provided people are becoming Krishna conscious and essential principles of bhakti are not compromised. That's perfectly okay. Like when I did bhagavad gita thing on whiteboard setup, when I'm writing also on the glass on what side there is a shloka of bhagavad gita.

So I writing on onto the glass, people appreciated a lot because I did a research that how are these coaching centers? They are teaching their students. So one, one setup, which I got to know was the glass setup, which is a light board setup. So you write something onto, onto the glass and you explain the concepts, but whatever you are writing from that side would be actually, it's, it's a mirror image.

It would be like other way around. So we used to make a video and then with the help of software, create the mirror image. So whatever I'm writing now, it is more readable.

So the projector is not on that side, that side of glass, but on my side. So what I'm writing is also other way around the text, which is getting displayed is also other way around, but now we make the video and we create the mirror image of the whole thing. So now it is, everything is fine.

And people, they go, they went through this course and many of the videos have reached the lakhs and lakhs of viewership reason being they saw first time like this. So innovation, we should also go for innovation. He had the theistic exhibitions.

It was a very innovative idea, actually. And when who is being killed by, uh, by law nursing Dave. So, uh, so he would tag absolute reality kills materialism, very innovative way of giving the message, but someone else was so innovative.

Wow. So that's why we should innovate more and more ideas. And we are to pace up so that we can catch up with this world.

And then we can give them Krishna consciousness. Otherwise you will be there in our world thinking, you know, people are so materialistic. They're not coming Baba because there is so much Thomas nowadays in Kalyuga.

Well, that's, that's the truth, but somewhere we are to catch up with them, to give them broad chicken as mercy. So we are to innovate ideas through social media is, uh, it's, it's also at one level, a very reductionistic vision to say that it is all Thomas. Uh, it is the, the digital world is a reflection of the human world.

Oh, yes. And the human world has suffered just Thomas. And similarly, there will also suffer just Thomas over there.

It is up depends on what we are providing there and what we are seeking there. Yes. Oh, that's wonderful.

So you have been, you are on all social media, which are social media. Have you focused on well, primarily I'm on YouTube and, um, but of course people take out clips from the YouTube and they post on Instagram and other platforms as well. I personally do not exist with my own ID.

I only post my videos on, on my Ashram and then people, people clip out, they take out the clips here and there. Like on, I got, I don't maybe 10, 15 IDs, maybe on Instagram. And I, all of them are fan made IDs.

I have not made single one of them. I do not exist on Facebook. I personally, when I'm checking Facebook, uh, I do not exist on Instagram, but there are people who are doing it on different platforms.

So that's how it, so it's more of the devotees was spreading it and just giving my original contact in my Ashram, but we also allow them. Okay. In case you want to, you are doing it.

All right. As you said, copyright means it's your right to copy it. Wonderful.

Like Microsoft became so popular. Why? Because Microsoft allowed piracy. Otherwise there are other, uh, separate operating systems as well.

Like IBM has bought and some microsystem, they have got very good, um, uh, operating systems, but Microsoft is so famous because it allowed piracy in a narrow place, 50 rupees, you get windows XP and all these different versions of windows, but through this piracy being allowed, it went everywhere. So somebody had to allow. True.

Wonderful. And, uh, regarding social media, I feel that COVID has in one sense made it, uh, unavoidable for us to come online and we need to increase our presence more and more. Any practical tips you would like to give for those who would like to increase their presence? One is of course the conceptual hesitation that is it named fame? Is it that definition of humility is being aggressive for Krishna is beautiful.

Arjuna was humble, but he was shooting arrows. Yeah, absolutely. Yes.

So apart from that aspect of fame, do you have any other concerns that I've seen that quite a few other devotees are also from Delhi area are on YouTube. There is a, there are a couple of devotees who do these discussions on various, uh, what is it? Satya? I forget the name. Oh, uh, what's your channel? Yeah.

That is from East of Kailash. Yes. Yes.

So a lot of devotees from there are already there. Isn't it? In one sense. So what would you like to, you'd like to share something? I'd like to share some of the tips, some of the things which I think which we can do to do outreach.

So the, I, I noted down around 15 different avenues where we are not present when people are present. If they, if we do, then we can actually greatly influence a lot of lots and lots of people. Uh, first is probably, uh, uh, short films, short films are very popular on YouTube, uh, whether it's a romantic short films or horror short films, some suspense or thriller short films.

Similarly, we should also make some short films that would be very good. Like in back to Godhead magazine, there is one very interesting section, which is known as how I came to Krishna consciousness. So we make some short clips and how somebody came to Krishna consciousness.

Somebody was dead and somebody was, uh, really struggling with himself. And then how Krishna conscious has changed them. So in this way, small, small videos, it's like a drama thing.

It's a video, like somebody is enacting. So in this way, that's a very good thing. It's just like there's Netflix for movies.

Christians have created something called pure flicks. So what they say is there are family-friendly movies over there, family-friendly entertainment without too much obscenity to without, without violence and excessive violence like that. Okay.

So it's not necessarily directly, not that teaching Bible, but they're providing family-friendly. What you're talking about is utilizing the utilizing the video media much more, not just for direct classes, but also for other things. Yeah.

That's so important. Yes. Yes.

So, uh, we can make videos on say, for example, relationships on what points we have, what conflicts and how they can be resolved videos on that drugs. Drugs is a very interesting topic. I, when I was, when I was in a Spanish stuff, at that time I had the idea, but I could not really execute the idea, uh, because I, we saw the movie metrics.

And so I had the, I was thinking to make a small clip Maya tricks. So the one who's playing the role of Neo is actually the soul Morpheus is guru and Trinity, uh, is, uh, is, is, is mercy. Uh, I forgot the name of the, of the lady.

And then all these agents are lust, anger, greed, pride, and illusion and ego and all that. And then we can make a nice video of, uh, you know, metrics. So it can be my metrics, Maya tricks.

So these kind of some short videos, they can be there, which with same setup, you know, wearing black suit and all that, and then some basic Kung Fu, but giving more of message of from the Bhagavad Gita. So these kinds of videos that they can be helpful. That's one thing.

Second thing I believe is that we should do dramas in college. I remember when I was walking outside, when I was in a small youth quorum, we used to have this drama, God on trial. And then we, uh, where one lawyer is showing that there is no God and the person, the lawyer who's a defender, he presents that yet God that yes, God is there.

So we did this at more than 200 colleges. And the response was absolutely fabulous because we are directly addressing atheism. That's one of the misconceptions about spirituality.

So God, and so these kinds of dramas we should do in college as this pandemic thing is over. So we should plan that like we did this drama on PKGK from your book. Oh my God.

And PKGK. So we took the arguments and logics and reasons from your book project, and he made the drama and we did that in some of the colleges. So that would also be very good at connecting to the students.

Third is that would be, um, participating in college fest, if possible, like here used to have Rahagiri. It's from times group, but how Gary aware on the road is blocked for three hours from 6am till 9am. And then on the road, people can do yoga exercises and people come.

So they're used to do keep them and distribute Kichadi Prasadam. And that response was really amazing, actually amazing. So many people were coming to our temple just because of this thing.

And then a fourth is that probably a Prasadam for the students. Sometimes we also do this, that in the colleges, we just have Prasadam. There is no program, no Kirtan, no lecture as such.

We just have on say Saraswati Pooja on Saraswati Pooja day, we have got some nice pizza party for them or say Chola Bhattu does for them. And then we interact with them while they're having Prasadam and they take their contact numbers and details and all of that. And then we invite them for, for the sessions.

So that is also what we can do because in colleges, we see that mess is actually a mess in terms of Prasadam. It's a very messy. They don't like Prasadam, the food at all.

So we give them Prasadam, delicious Prasadam in this way, we can connect with the youth as well. Fifth is that probably food chains. We should also have some food chains, some restaurants.

Like in Italy, we have what's a restaurant known as vegetarian meat shop, which is done by devotees actually. And it tastes like meat, but it is all soya. Basically it's, it is vegetarian.

So that this, so there's also one more avenue where we can connect to the people. We can give them pamphlets about what's, what, what we are doing. Like I know many of the ISKCON members, they have not registered with Swiggy and Zomato.

In case somebody is booking an online food, why not from Govindas? By Krishna's mercy, we have got one of the best Govindas in Delhi NCR. People come even from NCR areas, all across, they come to ISKCON Govindas and Dwarka. Because here we have very good cuisine.

So, and we are registered with Zomato and Swiggy. So people take lots and lots of unique items from, from Govindas and we, we can tell them it is from ISKCON Dwarka. Even we advertise this in the airport as well.

If somebody wants to have Prasadam, we would supply you in airport. Many people, they, they do this booking. Wait a minute.

Sorry, just a minute. Govindas, when I had come to Dwarka, I don't think Govindas was constructed, was it there at that time? No, Prabhuji, we recently started, of course, around, yeah, a couple of years back. And it has already become one of the best, is it? Oh, yes, Prabhuji, absolutely.

Amazing. From Banjai Bagh, East of Kailash, they say, well, we will have our celebrations in Dwarka because Govindas is awesome, awesome there. So, but we got very good cooks here, of course, professional cooks who were earlier working with ITC Hotel.

But now they are here, they chant six rounds every day. The chief cook, he chants 22 rounds every day. And then they start their cooking.

So we also ensure their spiritual advancement, not just, you know, mundane cooking with, with good taste. Apart from that, we try to bring the spiritual taste. But, but there's also a way we connect to the people.

So Swiggy and Zomato, people can book some of the delicacies from Govindas. Six is, Prabhuji, like, we should go to societies and deliver sessions, which are quite connected. Like in India, it can be art of parenting, stress management, anger management, relationship sutras.

In the West, it can be about reincarnation, like your book, Demystifying Reincarnation. It's absolutely fabulous, Prabhuji. So anybody who is from Christian background, when it comes to see there is a scientific description, explanation about reincarnation, which is not explained in the Bible, then actually they can actually probe a person to inquire more.

So there can be such programs organized in the West, demystifying reincarnation. And your book is like a Bible for reincarnation. So many beautiful case studies and wonderful reasons that actually it exists.

Like Jaya Bhattakam Maharaj's book, Vanity Karma. It's a very good book. So it actually takes that those questions which are not being answered in Bible, they are beautifully answered in the Bhagavad Gita.

So there can be these kind of sessions in the West. We have like in some of the societies and we invite people and some people would come. And so these are some of the sessions which we can do in the West, so that we can connect with the audience.

And then seventh is, Prabhuji, we should have books in the schools. Like in India, we have Values of Life by Ajit Govind Prabhu, who is an espionage of Ganesh. All these who are favorable for Hinduism, like Saraswati Di Bal Mandir, these kind of RSS schools, they are very welcoming.

And this way, lakhs and lakhs of children, they get values right in their school itself. So we should also do this kind of getting into the education, grassroot level. So we should not wait that one day they would come to us.

No, we have to go to them. Because it is Kali Yuga, the thirsty would not come to the well, the well has to go to the thirsting. So that's why somewhere we have to get into the school education.

In fact, we went to, we met with the Chief Minister of UP. He also helped us to some extent that he allowed our books, Values of Life in the schools. Like in colleges now, we are running this course, Bhagavad Gita.

And we have just started because we get the reference from IIM Samdabad, where I go there as a visiting faculty to teach leadership from Bhagavad Gita. So we show that letter that yes, when IIM Samdabad, the number one management institute, they are going for Bhagavad Gita. So why not you? So some of the colleges nearby, they have also accepted it.

We propose them the syllabus as well. And they were very happy with that. So we have to go into this education.

We should not wait that there would be some revolutionary change, and then we would start doing something. But yes, at college level and school level, this can happen. Eighth is that we should also hold some spiritual competitions.

And where the test is very easy, but there is more inspiration so that they can go for a book. And then there's a multiple choice question. And then some prizes can be given in this way also be connected to the students.

Ninth is of course, we should make lots and lots of videos, especially your websites contains such rich content. It is unparalleled. Amazon Prime videos on these Hoot, Zee, all of these different platforms are there.

Disney Hotstar. So there you should have some kind of web series, maybe just three episodes where the doubts are being cleared. So for example, say somebody ran and then from the and then he gets into the devotees and then asking questions and then he is some kind of little adventure and then mix of adventure and then some confusions being resolved through those web series that would also be very effective because people are on these OTT platforms.

So web series means like normal classes or more like a film. What will we have on web series? Yeah. That's why I just gave you the script.

There's a thief. He ran away from police and then mixes with the sadhus and then he has got his doubts and questions and they are being answered. Gradually becomes a devotee.

So these kind of some kind of basic script can be there. So just maybe it can be a movie as well. We have got movies like PK and oh my God, why can't we have other around the other aspect where we use the movies and presenting the spiritual concepts? I'm sure in our devotee community also there will be even devotees who are adept at making this.

If the content is provided, the script is provided, the technical aspect will not be that difficult to make. Of course it requires commitment. It requires finances also, but I think it can come up.

It's not that difficult. I think the content has to be there first. Yes.

Yes. So this would be very effective like on Netflix. People are on Netflix nowadays.

Yeah. Like some of the bookstores we have not seen Shilpa's books, like WH Smith is one of the very famous distributors of the books, but in their stores, none of the stores I've seen Shilpa's books. So somewhere we are to see which are the famous distributors of the books.

There we should have Shilpa's books. I went and I asked them, we have Bhagavad Gita as it is. They don't have Bhagavad Gita as it is.

So somewhere we should already spread out the resources. We should use these spread out resources, which are already there. We have to just place Shilpa's books.

That's it. That's what we should do. Another thing which we should be doing probably is audio books.

Like Storytel is very famous. Storytel. When I went to Storytel, there's not even a single book of Shilpa Prabhupada on Storytel.

So we should get on these platforms as well, because when people are driving, they want to listen books. So we can advertise as well. Say introduction has been spoken by Ajay Devgn and the rest of the book is being told by somebody else.

Understood. Introduction from all the stars, say Ajay Devgn or Akshay Kumar. In the West, it can be Will Smith.

Will Smith, he posted a video glorifying Bhagavad Gita. So Will Smith, he just narrates the introduction part. The rest of the part can be done by some other devotee.

But we advertise that Bhagavad Gita introduction narrated by Will Smith. Julia Roberts. Julia Roberts has taken to Hinduism already.

We can do that. So she would also narrate at least the introduction part or the preface part or some section of the Gita or some other books. So we should do this.

And then we advertise it as well. That yes, just see. And so this here we are not doing the way people are there.

Storytel is very famous. People want to read books, but they are quite busy. So they have their earplugs and they are cleaning and all of that.

And then that narration is happening. So Storytel is also the platform where somebody can do preaching, especially those who are camera shy people, to speak before the camera, they feel very hesitant, but they have got very good quality voice. A lot of clarity is there and they can narrate it, but then in Hindi, English or other languages, we do that.

And these platforms like Storytel, some of the other platforms are also there. So they can go there like Spotify, like Spotify, Ghana, Sound, Amazon Music. There is no scorn stuff there.

People are listening to all kinds of things, but on these platforms, very few. Like Spotify, I heard some of the kirtans, but there is so much of scope is there. Such melodious kirtani as we have.

So we should post our videos or audios on these platforms like Spotify, Ghana, Sound, Amazon Music. We should do that. And then villagers, villagers and tribes, they should also be helped.

Like our Bhakti Prashottam Maharaj is already doing this in this direction. I would request other devotees also to join him. Because where do these missionaries, they attack ultimately these tribal people because they are poor, providing the facilities and then converting them.

If we would give them facilities, things can happen. There are people to give, like through CSR, Corporate Social Responsibility. We can make it Corporate Spiritual Responsibility, CSR, by getting the money and then giving, helping these tribes and then giving them prasadam and they chant Hare Krishna.

Like one of the villages we went and we preached about chanting Hare Krishna. Next time when we went to them and we asked them, how many rounds are you chanting? Somebody said 50 rounds. Somebody said 32 rounds.

Somebody said 47 rounds. And there was one boy, he was crying. And we asked him, why are you weeping? He said, no, I'll not tell how many rounds.

We said, why? He said, because I chant only 25. So we went there and then it's more of a town kind of thing. So, but yes.

So they are simple people. So when we care for them, then we can also approach them like that. And one thing which ISKCON is lacking, that we do not do marketing at all.

Some XYZ Swamiji walks on the ramp, does a catwalk, and then so much publicity that Swamiji had a ramp catwalk. But we have got such amazing festivals in ISKCON and we do not advertise at all. We are happy among ourselves.

Festival is done. Yay! Hari bol! Hari bol! But we don't do much of publicity. Like Jangalei Mohanachal kisne dikhaye, Hindi as we say.

So what in a wilderness. So usually mostly we are doing this. We are happy in our festivals, but we should also do marketing.

Whether in print media, social media, electronic media, we should do marketing or whatever you are doing. We are doing, we will continue to do that as it is. Let's add one more thing.

Marketing. Because Kalyuga is the age of marketing. All bluff, no stuff becomes very popular because of marketing.

And we are all stuff, no bluff, but we do not do any marketing. So all stuff and no bluff should also do marketing. So these are some of my 15 suggestions which I have for outreach for the devotees.

They would be engaged and they would feel satisfied. They would feel mercy on Lord Nityananda Prabhu because we are assisting him in his spreading of the mercy to the Kalyuga people, getting them connected to Lord Chaitanya, to Radha and Krishna. This is amazing.

You are filled with ideas of what can be done. So it is said about Prabhupada that he had, Prabhupada could engage the whole world in Krishna's service. Just wanted the world to come.

This is amazing. We need a, you could say it's almost like the whole virtual world is like a universe. And it's, there are different areas of that universe which can be approached by different regiments of devotees, different devotees.

Yes. So has your success on social media also inspired other devotees to take it up in either in Dwarka temple or in Delhi or other places? Yes, of course. Yeah.

They are doing on different levels of course, but yes, there are devotees who are doing this because they can see that it is giving results. People are getting connected to us. So if we, if I wait that, you know, somebody would come to my class and listen, and then I'll make the person Krishna conscious.

Well, the class, which is attended by only 50 people, as soon as this class goes on social media, then there is 50,000. So 50,000, in case you are popular, then five lakhs, 1 million, one single class, like my class on Lord Shiva was attended by only 50 people in the class, Bhagavatam class. But that is like 1.2 million on YouTube.

So that's why we, where people are there, we are to go there. And then there are devotees who are taking it up. And it seems that broadly we can conclude with this.

In general, the Hindi audience, is it, we hadn't tapped it so much, isn't it? It's in the last 10, 15 years, it has happened much more after, after I think the glory of India temple came up from that time onwards, things have just, you could say, I don't want to use that metaphor of exploded, but they expanded in an explosive way, you can say. So is there any reason for this you feel, or is just that we had the devotees and we had, we focused the energy because in one sense our, we, as a movement, if you see it, there is a significant presence in Bengal, then there is a significant presence in some parts of Maharashtra. If you consider India also, we are not like very big in various places.

So I would say Bengal is probably the most, because that's Bengali culture is Mahaprabhu's culture, a lot of it, a lot of it. And then Delhi, it has happened is huge in the last two decades, in my understanding. Yes, absolutely.

Any particular reasons you feel for that? Probably one thing is book distribution. The book distribution, of course, His Holiness Gopalakrishna Maharaj has inspired us a lot. And then of course, Mohan Rupa Prabhu ji, who is temple president for ISKCON East of Kailash, he is really very, very inspirational.

He is in a new avatar in the month of December, especially. So because of his inspiration, training devotees, and Madhusundar Prabhu, who has been doing book distribution for the past 20 years, distributing books on Delhi means eating smoke, drinking smoke, smelling smoke all throughout the day. In the evening, when they come, when they spit in the washbasin, the spit is black, because India is one of the most polluted cities in the world.

We are maybe in the top five. We are there. So devotees, they have really sacrificed.

So much of distribution of books has happened. And inspiration has been coming from devotees like Maharaj and Mohan Rupa Prabhu ji. And of course, during this COVID thing, of course, a lot of outreach happened.

Social media, on social media also, ISKCON has become quite active. That's also one more reason, Prabhu ji. So that's why it has increased.

Actually, earlier, we were not catering to one very major portion of the whole entire, especially, I would say, in India. Either you're focusing on hyper-traditional people, who are not connected to technology at all. And then there is also a very educated class.

So English-speaking intellectual class, we are catering to them. And there is also one very big percentage of Hindi-speaking, and they are in technology as well, Hindi-speaking class, which is a very big percentage. So somewhere this was not getting addressed, because either we were too traditional or we were being quite modern.

But this is like semi-modern percentage of the people. This was not getting catered. So when this started happening, then it really expanded, Prabhu ji.

True. And so this happened in the last five, ten years, I would say? Five years, six years, especially. It's wonderful.

And if you consider that way, Delhi is also the capital of India. And how much do we connect with people? We, as a movement, are not into politics directly. But just being in the capital city of India, does that affect our outreach positively, negatively, or it doesn't make much difference? It doesn't make much difference, Prabhu ji.

Because the sweet is sweet everywhere, whether it is in metropolitan city, whether it is in town, it is such a sweet philosophy. It is so complete. It makes so much sense.

It has got the right kind of engagement. So that's why, of course, we may do packaging a little differently in different places. But essentially, everything remains the same, Prabhu ji.

Like we may not have Bhagav Saptas. Bhagav Saptas can be very successful in the town area, in village areas. It could be a very successful preaching strategy.

But in the cities, it should be, it could be, it can be seminars with more modern contemporary scientific examples. So some packaging can be a little different. But otherwise, it is the same, Prabhu ji.

And ultimately, we see that, you know, it is a conviction of the preacher, which is very, very important. Because we do not communicate words, we communicate consciousness. So that conviction is very touching.

Like Allen Ginsberg used to say to Shri Prabhupada, there are many words, there are many things which Swamiji says I do not agree to. But when he's present before me, his presence forces me to accept what he's saying. So that's the power of clarity and conviction which Prabhupada had.

Because this world is actually, I'm sorry, Prabhu ji. No, no, go ahead. I was saying that this world is actually, as you say, survival of the fittest.

Although in terms of science, it is questionable. But in terms of preaching, it really works. Survival of the fittest.

The one who has got greater amplitude of conviction would eat up the conviction of the one who has got weaker conviction. So when we have more spiritual conviction, that's stronger, that would eat up the conviction of the person who is having conviction in sense gratification, would eat it up. Actually, Prabhupada had greater conviction.

Americans had conviction in sense gratification. Prabhupada had conviction in Krishna consciousness. But his was bigger.

So ate this conviction. So this is very, very important part. And certainly conviction comes from purity and maturity as well.

Yeah, I think he talked about how this, this sweetness of Prabhupada's personal dedication. Arjun's book talked about that, that, you know, it's not that when Prabhupada's conviction was not that he's imposing on others, but just the sweetness of his dedication was disarming. And yeah, you know what conviction, there is one quote, the problem with the world is that the, that the wise are full of doubts and the foolish are full of convictions.

And when we talk about, this is a good analysis that there is, if you consider temples and deity worship, all this will attract traditional people. And that is also big demographic. And the systematic college outreach, which we do course by course, which we're doing, that is also important.

But when it is emphasizing philosophy a lot, then it attracts a particular demographic in between. Yeah, it's that people don't have to be necessarily be in English speaking to be good at technology. There are so many YouTube channels about reviewing for phones and devices, there are some which are just in the end.

They also have a lot of views. So people are into tech. So in one sense, you could say technology itself is their language.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So reaching out to is very good.

And what you said earlier about Delhi, sweet is sweet everywhere. You know, I think Prabhupada has asked when he came to Africa, what is your message for Africa? So Prabhupada said my message is the same as the message for everywhere else. You know, if you forget God, you won't be happy.

But when I was asking about the capital, we have also as a been able to connect with, with a lot of influential people in the political domain also in the recent, recent, you could say months or years as compared to earlier. Yes, absolutely. Yes.

Because this program was very catchy for the bureaucrats, the politicians. My experience is that when I meet any of the bureaucrats and politicians, when we go and meet them, 90% cases, 90% cases, they did not let me wait. They said, Oh, somebody has from Hare Krishna's term.

They call us out to the queue just because of that rapport, which we have made because of this thing. So yeah, probably some of the bureaucrats and politicians, they have also become favorable. So the schools have become more acceptable because earlier on the name of being secular, secular, they were not allowing religion at all.

But now in many, some of the schools, they allow it because, you know, it is a Modi government here in India now. Yeah. Okay.

Sure. You can have your Gita course and all that people are becoming more welcoming. Okay.

And the Gita course, you have directly Bhagavad Gita or it is more gradual presentation in schools. How do you do it? Like in school. So you, we go for this Ajit Prabhu's books.

Okay. You mentioned that. He has already designed books from standard one to standard eight.

So he's still working on other books as well, but they are absolutely very graphical, very full of colors and pictures, very good, actually. So I would request anybody who wants to introduce this moral education. So he has got his moral education filled with the essential teachings from the Bhagavad Gita.

He's got stories from other places as well, so that it appears to be secular as well. But in case somebody just wants us absolutely Hindu content, those versions of the books are also available. So he takes the contract and then he does it and he does this very selflessly.

He's not getting anything for himself. He himself is a DTU pass out from Delhi technical university, being a B tech. So he doesn't, he's not doing for money.

He's a monk. He stays in a monastery in, in, in the, in East of Kailash. So I would recommend his books and values of life.

Very good. Presenting philosophies through cartoons, some sketches, you know, some exercises match the following fill in the blanks. That's very good.

That's wonderful. So it's a diverse outreach with many devotees doing different things. Like I said, that started either the tide and the wave.

So you, one way is you are the wave, but there's a whole tide that is coming over there. Oh, yes. Yes.

Absolutely. So maybe one last question here, we consider Hindi in the broad, this particular demographic, which is attractive technology is using technology, which we can reach to social media. So there is one feeling that because of social media, people get very distracted today.

And that, and while that is true, and there's a lot of distraction, but at the same time, I find that there are people also who are interested in a lot of quality content. Some of your videos are short, but your Lord Shiva lecture, that's not a small lecture. And still it has a, it has a long view.

So it's not, I think it's not so much just having short content unnecessary. It is more that if good content is there, people will come to that good content. Oh, yes.

The length is not the most important thing. I think the quality of the content is the most important thing. Oh, yes.

Absolutely. In case the content is very good, people become hypnotized with the content and then how this time passes. They do not even realize, although we have got short, short videos as well.

So that when you walk, you can listen to it, then those, they are also there. But in case you have got some very good content that even one and a half hour thing that people, yeah, I appreciate like, like I'm ready to go. He has got three hours lecture.

When he came to his school for three hours, I told him there is no time limit, please. So he glorified three hours and the viewership of that video somewhere around say seven lakh or eight lakhs, seven to eight lakh people. They viewed entire thing, the entire three hours lecture.

So somewhat, sometimes when the content is very rich people appreciate it. Yes. Although primarily we focus on short videos because when they are traveling, they can listen to it.

Yeah. So we do that. Wonderful.

So you'd like to add anything in before I summarize, it's been wonderful. It's just, you know, how you say that the world knows that God is great, but in our tradition, we come to know how great God is. So I knew that the Delhi outreach was wonderful.

What all you're doing was wonderful, but how wonderful it is now I come to know to some extent through the podcast. So that's wonderful. Anything including you would like to add? Yeah, nothing really.

I think we have covered everything in my opinion. Yeah. But I'm very, very fortunate to be here and talking to you.

It was my good fortune actually, that seeing you and then talking to you, it is my good fortune and I couldn't glorify the other, the attempts of the other devotees. I could present some of the ideas which are there in my mind, but I'm not, I alone, I can't do, but yes, other devotees can do because ISKCON is full of talented devotees. Yeah, definitely.

And not only ISKCON is full of, we can say that there are many talented people who want to do something good. And if they have the channel, we provide them the avenue, they can also do it. That's also there.

Oh yes, probably. And ISKCON is very wonderful organization probably because, you know, there are people who are having their own psychophysical nature, their talents, their skills, and they get here, here is a place where they can actually offer it to the Supreme Lord. So that's why I would request more and more people who are, whether they're part of ISKCON family or they're not part of ISKCON family, but they can certainly become part of our ISKCON family.

They can offer their services and sometimes people say, you know, why this evil is increasing. I tell them that evil is not increasing. It is a good people are quiet.

So good people should also speak, speak gigabytes and gigabytes and terabytes. You should speak out, you should do that. And then of course we should, when we do this, we will attract grace because when we give Krishna, we get Krishna.

So one of the ways to become Krishna conscious, preaching is a fastest way of self-realization. Ashwin Prabhupada also used to say this. So everyone should, at their own level, should try to preach.

There are many, many avenues where we can educate people about Krishna. And when we do that, then we will, we would get Krishna. So more we give Krishna, more we get Krishna.

So we should give Krishna to more and more people on various platforms. And then you would be blessed by Srila Prabhupada, you'd be blessed by Lord Chaitanya, Lord Nityanand Prabhu, because we are doing, we are being humble instruments of their compassion. So that is what we should try to do at whatever level we may do.

The results are secondary. We should just get involved and do the service. Sometimes people become very anxious and you know, we should also become very popular and very famous, this and that.

We should not get into that. But yes, when we sincerely try, then Krishna would take care of the rest of the thing. But when we maintain the sincere attitude and then certainly Krishna would help us.

And in case you want this, that the Hare Krishna should become the world religion, as Nasir Damas has also predicted, that maybe we would be the primary contributors. We can, by Krishna's will. So certainly I would request more and more people to become part of preaching.

That's very important. In my opinion, if somebody is not preaching Krishna consciousness, he's experiencing Krishna consciousness only 50%. So we must be preaching.

We should not just live like a creature. We should live like a preacher. So more than a creature, we should be a preacher.

So we may preach to our behaviors, to our dealings as well as words. We should do that. You have a good way with even English words.

You say Hindi is your home territory, but even English is good. You are a wordsmith. I'm your small student.

You are a very, very small student. I'm just learning from you. Nothing like that.

It's been wonderful talking with you. I'll try to quickly summarize and then maybe you can add. We started by discussing about your spiritual journey in the beginning and your journey within your services also.

It's amazing that you already had a sense of gratitude towards God and wanted to do something for society, especially at the mental level, helping people deal with problems. And while we heard many stories of devotees coming to searching out for something higher, it's your service quite distinct that you in one sense left your education, found a destination, then came back to education and again came back to that destination. Distinctive.

And then beyond that, it's amazing that you started this channel. As you said, it was accidental that in Mayapur you started in 2015 and then it took off and 1 million subscribers within just 2-3 years. Yes.

That's amazing. And it's not just the fact that you are reaching a large number of people, also providing them a pathway to move forward towards Krishna. So do have relevant content in the beginning, which relates with people practically, guides them practically in their lives.

And then from there, give them this format of having reviving values where you have live classes, which is an ongoing course, 30 sessions, and then get them to more direct courses on Krishna. That's, I think, one of the biggest challenges for us, those who go into social media, how to have a pathway forward. So that also you've been able to do.

I feel this whole story of the outreach during the COVID times using drones and everything, that is a story which needs to be much more widely told. It has been told, but it's phenomenal. And we look at it from the perspective of not just we want to help people as we are helping people, but also that they come closer to Krishna and others open their hearts to Krishna, whether the influential people in society in various places.

Maybe those who are not in India, may not appreciate that point that you are not told to wait, but you are allowed to come ahead. In India, standing in queues, life goes on. So to be given the opportunity to come, not have to wait in queues, that does indicate how much we are respected and how much we are valued.

That's a tangible parameter. And then maybe if you have made this 15 point list, what we could do is you can send me the list and we will put that as a visual image or something like that, as a text. It can be read also by people.

And it's a very well thought out list with a lot of creative ideas and not just creative, but you can say creative and realistic ideas, which could be done without, we don't need to make short films or to make dramas. We don't need an astronomical amount of expenditure for that. Yes, it's possible.

And we can reach out to a large number of people. So this is, in one sense, not only are you doing well and wonderfully on social media, but you are also, you are created pathways by which, or you have ideas or outlines by which others can also do wonderfully on social media, contribute in their own ways. And lastly, we discussed about how the demographic, which we are targeting, if you are clear, then there is a huge demographic who's Hindi speaking, but who is on social media, who is tech savvy, and that was untapped.

And as we tap it, it is, there are, they're pious, but they're also tech savvy. So it's a huge audience, which we can reach and can take Krishna Consciousness to a much bigger level. So marketing is required as a small stuff, that stuff, but along with the stuff we need, we need to reach out with the stuff.

Yes. Wonderful talking with you, bro. Any important points I missed out? No, no, no.

Everything, everything's perfectly fine. Yes. Yes.

Everything's perfect. Thank you. Wonderful talking with you.

Really blessed to talk to you. Yeah, you are an inspiration for me and so many other preachers and devotees. You are an inspiration.

Thank you very much for coming in our lives. Many people will say that they are blessed to have you in their lives. And I feel enriched, you could say, to understand what all you have been doing.

Thank you very much for joining today. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much.