Dowry System: See beyond specific rules to universal values
And return back home, back to godhead. Swami Namaste Saraswati Devi Gauravani Charane Nirvishesha Shunyavadi Pashyascha Prapasindhu Patitanam Pavanibhyo Vaishnavibhyo Jai Shri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nityananda Shri Advaita Gadadhara Shri Vasadhi Gaurabhakta Vrinda Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Hare Krishna So I am grateful to be here with all of you today and here we are discussing the tenth canto of the Shrimad Bhagavatam wherein the focus is on the back story before Krishna's appearance the tenth canto has 90 chapters and almost all of them are centred on Krishna on the life of Krishna along with some of the places where he also gives his teachings so today's session I will discuss in three parts first is we will discuss about a quick overview of these few verses which we read just now and second I will talk about the system of dowry and the third we will talk about how more important than implementing rule is inspiring values or virtues so firstly the tenth canto begins with Parishit Maharaj asking about the life and teaching life of Krishna in greater detail in the previous canto the ninth canto toward the end in summary that the teachings have been Krishna's life was described very briefly just as Lord Ram's life was described briefly and he desires Parishit Maharaj desires to hear it in much more detail and in that connection he asks questions and these are the answers so recognising that Parishit Maharaj has he wants to hear in detail about Krishna that is because among all the manifestations of divinity among the various avatars of the Lord Parishit Maharaj is most intimately connected with Krishna for multiple reasons Krishna is the you could say the latest avatar who had appeared just a few just a generation or two ago secondly his family was intimately related with Krishna his grandfather was Arjuna was the foremost friend of Krishna and thirdly because Parishit Maharaj was naturally also personally attracted to Krishna so because of this when he starts describing about Krishna he starts with a back story about Krishna and as this back story is being described Shri Prabhupada he has given commentaries till the 14th chapter and even in the 10th canto Shri Prabhupada's focus is not only on the transcendental he focusses on the social as the way to the transcendental among the various acharyas in our tradition Shri Prabhupada is the first acharya who has combined social commentary with spiritual commentary or scriptural commentary you can say that means if you look at the commentaries of Vishwanath ji on the Bhagavatam or you look at the Sandarbha explanations of Yugoslavia both of these were written at times of great social upheaval just Vrindavan at that time was in a very geographically close to a place where there had been Islamic rule and some of the rulers were extremely fanatical but Vishwanath ji nowhere in his Bhagavatam commentary mentions anything about how terrible society has become degraded today and these people are there and they are causing such problems in scriptural commentary he focusses on scriptural commentary Shri Prabhupada but almost every commentary of Prabhupada every report of Prabhupada addresses social issues now why is that there is both a historical reason and a transcendental reason the historical reason is that Prabhupada is writing his books to an audience which is utterly unfamiliar with even the fundamentals of the spiritual culture and spiritual wisdom that the original audience of scripture were familiar with so because of that Prabhupada has to start from basics so Chakravarti pad if he is writing his commentary he doesn't have to explain the concept of dowry at all that was a part of the culture but Prabhupada is writing a commentary where he is addressing audiences very different from the original audiences and that's why he needs to bring in historic, he needs to address the two things the social dimensions of whatever is described in the scripture that means say Prabhupada makes one statement over here dowry is not considered illegal, now why does he mention illegal over there in the purport because in India dowry is presently considered illegal and Prabhupada is saying a dowry therefore is never illegal according to the Vedic system so Prabhupada is addressing social issues even in a scriptural commentary, why? because these issues need to be understood, the historical reason is that these can become stumbling blocks for those who are not familiar with them and unless these are addressed they will not be able to focus on the essential principles and the transcendental reason is that Prabhupada taught a spirituality that was very engaged spirituality, engaged means, Prabhupada was not just interested in explaining scripture he was interested in helping people live according to scripture and live according to the essential teachings of scripture and that is why he gave social commentary so here I am talking about two distinct things, that this is scripture and this is the audience to which scripture was spoken and this is today's world so sometimes in scripture there may be certain things which today's audience may find objectionable at least questionable so Prabhupada has to explain it for today's audience, at the same time what Prabhupada is also doing is that he wants today's audience also to learn to live according to scripture now for that when they are in a completely different social setting, what needs to be done for that purpose, how can they live according to scripture, so for that purpose also he has social commentary now it's interesting Prabhupada is very nuanced Prabhupada is Gauri is never illegal within the Vedic system Prabhupada is not making a political statement about today, he is not saying that we should fight against any laws that make Gauri illegal and that we should make Gauri illegal or we should make Gauri essential, no Prabhupada, what is he doing is he is explaining what is there in scripture in a way that it doesn't become a stumbling block for people to understand the essential message of scripture the essential message of scripture is ultimately remember Krishna Sarva viddhi nishedasur etaiyare avatinkaram smartavya satatam vishnu smartavya nijatuchit always remember Krishna, never forget Krishna so once we consider these two aspects of of scripture of Prabhupada's distinctive presentation of scripture, what is he doing, he is giving a social explanation of the social dimensions of scripture and he is addressing current social issues so that people can apply scripture so with these two things in mind now let's look at the concept of Gauri as such so in many ways in today's world there are a lot of things which we can look from our perspective and we can say these are terrible at least these are not good at least if you consider in India and several other countries the Gauri becomes, Prabhupada says it's a way of expressing affection and there is a particular socio-cultural system there so in the past, inheritance would normally go over to the male progeny so does that mean that the females would get nothing, the girls would get nothing, no, so Gauri was the way the women would get some of the father's inherited, father's property and it would be voluntarily and lovingly given but unfortunately over time what happens is rules they become they become divorced from their essential purpose and that is what is called as Niyamagraha Niyamagraha has two meanings one is that insisting on the letter of the law without understanding the spirit of the law or the other is rejecting the law entirely without even considering that its spirit might be good so both these things happen somebody may say if we have to follow scripture then we have to follow scripture means Krishna says I accept everything that you say Krishna therefore if we are going to follow scripture we have to reapply re-impose the Tauri system in today's world well no Sarvam Eta Dhritam Manye I accept everything that you say Arjuna tells Krishna what he is meaning is that when Krishna makes that claim which can seem a very presumptuous claim that I am not known even by the Devatas Namay Viduh Surgana Prabhavam Namah Arsheha that Krishna says my position is so sublime so supreme that even the Devatas don't know me and Krishna explains his supreme position and this statement about your position about the supremacy of your position and the supremacy of devotion to you that is what I accept Sarvam Eta Dhritam Manye I have no reservation of Krishna in accepting your supreme position so in scripture there is something which is called as prescriptive so prescriptive means it is describing the way things were at that time and prescriptive means these are what we need to do at this time so understanding this difference is important descriptive is this is how it was done at that time this is what you need to do or we need to do so for example when it is described during Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's time the Jagannath temple management did not allow Haridas Thakur to enter into the temple so is that something which is descriptive or prescriptive it is descriptive it was the custom at that time it is not something which has to be implemented and certainly not imposed today so there are many things which are descriptive but not necessarily prescriptive there are descriptions of elaborate yajnas Maharaj Yudhishthira is a pure devotee but he expend so much effort in performing a Rajasuya Yajna today do we have to do Rajasuya Yajna certainly not no matter how wealthy a person is they don't have to do Rajasuya Yajna so we can have both Jagannath temple entry rules that is descriptive but even something done by devotees Rajasuya Yajna done by a person like Yudhishthira Maharaj even that is a part of the descriptive nature of scripture it is not prescriptive so prescriptive is what today it is Harinam Sankirtan, Sankirtan Yajna is there chanting of the holy names is there so for example even the Gita if you consider 1866 is a prescriptive rule whereas when Krishna says that now I am going to show you the universal form with heads spread all over hands spread all over this is descriptive that is not prescriptive so there is a descriptive side and a prescriptive side now Bhaktivinoda Thakur explains that if we get too caught in the descriptive side he says we all need to be Saragrahi so Saragrahi means we can say in this term don't let the descriptive distract us from the prescriptive if we let ourselves get distracted then that is a we have to recognise what is our priority we will end up unnecessarily making things complicated for us and for others so essence, what is essence Saragrahi is essence seeker and the essence seeker is one who focusses on what is the essence so the prescriptive part is the essence now how exactly something is prescribed and applied that all has to be understood carefully but so focus on the prescriptive so Prabhupada himself if you see his stone over here now at the point I am emphasising that Prabhupada in no way saying that this is inherited property of a father and therefore an affection father in the marriage of his daughter could give her as much as possible so he is describing a daughter would he is not saying a daughter should would is describing what happened at that time similarly a dowry is therefore never illegal according to the Vedic system and then he goes on and further describes it is never illegal according to the Vedic system it's a description of the Vedic system and these long-standing these are old custom in the society of Arunachalam Dharma which is now wrongly designated as Hindu these long standing in the system are nicely described here so Prabhupada is explaining so there were in every society for the smooth organisation of society there are certain rules and those rules are important for the purpose of organising if we get if we don't understand that purpose then what happens is then we get caught in non-essentials so rules and purpose now rules can be variable and variable means what that rules can be described in the Mahabharata that when Bhishma sought the hand of the princess of princess Madhuri for Pandu he went to her brother Shalya and Shalya said that in our family the tradition is that whenever marriage happens it is the boy's side that gives gifts to the girl's side and that is in today's parlance in English it is called bride price and Bhishma says I am aware of this and that's why I have brought lavish gifts I have brought card loads of gifts for Madhuri's family and so Shalya is satisfied and of course Shalya also gives gifts back when their marriage happens and then they go back so the point is even within the Vedic tradition there was diversity that how society is to be administered that is something which is which is a matter of ensuring that people can function harmoniously how exactly this harmoniousness will happen that will vary from person to person okay is my audio unclear or video unclear in between it is breaking like when you shift from slides to screen and screen screen sharing to slides is it better now if it happens again please let me know okay so the rules can vary and the rules don't themselves have to be implemented at all times in one sense we can say in today's world there is often an emphasis that all these rules are old fashioned they should be rejected and not only they should be rejected they are oppressive and they are discriminatory well okay that from today's perspective in today's society certain rules may have become implemented in a way that is discriminatory the intent was not discriminatory as Prabhupada says in this case the purpose was an expression of affection that the dowry or bride price both were expressions of affection and in the context if the inheritance laws were such that women would not inherit then in that case dowry was a way of the of financial security for the bride now if you look at the dharmashastras within dharmashastras dharmashastras are Manusmriti is just one but there are many dharmashastras and within the dharmashastras it is described that actually what is the system of dowry the dowry was considered property of the bride not of the bride's family what does that mean that generally it was in the form of some kind of jewellery and other thing so especially the jewellery part not all of it but the idea was this dowry would be passed on by the bride to her daughter so that's how it was like a system of female inheritance to her daughter at her wedding at her daughter's wedding so that was the system originally so normal inheritance would happen through the property but these kind of gifts especially personal possessions they are passed on and generally the dowry would be the woman's property even the husband or the husband's family they would not claim it they would not claim right on it it would be her property she may choose to use it the family may decide that this is what we need to use but the system was it is the way in which a woman would have security and then that would be passed on unfortunately of course the system has become degenerated and it has become degenerated in such a way that dowry sometimes becomes a demand in today's world and then when it becomes a demand and that demand is not fulfilled there is exploitation there is abuse, there is violence and that is horrendous so in today's world the way it has been misused is unfortunate and it is not that this system has to be re-implemented in today's world so that is the second part the third part which I will conclude is that ultimately there are two things there are rules and there are values so actually rules are meant to foster values not replace values what does it mean? that any form of rules that we have they are meant to help people act according to certain good moral and spiritual values so what is the moral and spiritual value over here if there is a system of dowry that is when the wedding is happening at that time a way in which gifts are given is through dowry so it is meant to foster values but any kind of rule we may have if we insist on the rule without considering the underlying value over a period of time what will happen is the rule will start getting misused the rule will start getting not only misused unconsciously but sometimes consciously and malevolently it can get misused if we consider for example traffic rules now the purpose of traffic rules is to ensure that there is smooth traffic on the road so there could be some people say for example somebody who is an ambulance driver now for them the rules are lifted so that oh ok an ambulance can go through even the red signal traffic rules with exception for now in one sense exception for ambulances but now if the ambulance driver doesn't have the basic values of how to drive properly on a road then they may be wanting to save a life of the person who is in the car in the ambulance but in that process they may drive recklessly and they may endanger or even take away the life of somebody else who is on the road so just because a person is driving an ambulance and they have some level of exceptions doesn't mean that they can be reckless and even somebody who is an exception, the purpose of the exception is what? we want smooth traffic so that people can reach safely their destinations but that safety, if somebody's life is in danger, the normal rules can be suspended traffic rules can vary from place to place from circumstance to circumstance so now as a society somehow we have moved in a direction where values are de-emphasised and rules are emphasised and what happens when values are de-emphasised and rules are emphasised then the debate shifts from the underlying value to the merit of the rules so I don't want to get into a current poly-politically surcharge topic on any specific side but the principle I want to illustrate say now with the covid pandemic seeming to go on and on and on for a long time there are some people who feel that we should have mask mandates, that nobody should be allowed to go out without a mask, nobody should be allowed to travel without a vaccine and the others are saying no the government cannot impose rules like this so the point is that are the rules meant to aid in personal responsibility or are they replacing a sense of personal responsibility that means do we consider that people are irresponsible and that's why we need rules and if people are irresponsible no amount of rules are going to work so if you consider rules and responsibility rules without personal responsibility are never won't work so for example now as we become a more and more say rule centred society now there is one of my friends is working in one of the top car manufacturing companies and they say that in America they have made a rule that all future cars should have an indicator which will turn on if a baby is alone in the car that if a baby in the baby seat has been left alone in the car then immediately that indicator will turn on and it will alert it will start ringing, it will alert the local police, alert the local authorities so now if we consider if a set of parents or a set of guardians are irresponsible enough to leave a baby inside the car all alone then is simply the ringing of an alarm going to alert them, is it going to check them is it something which is a matter of common sense a common parental sense of responsibility is required without that to what extent can we have rules how far can we legislate basic values this is a key point that values can't ultimately be legislated they need to be inspired you can they need to be inspired we need to inspire values, we can't legislate how far can it go on yes there are some parents who unfortunately will be irresponsible but to take care of those exceptions is it worth it that all future buyers of cars have to pay extra to have that particular device installed in the cars if we go forward how much further can we go to what extent will we decide that we will replace values with rules so we may find that in the past the rules were oppressive, the rules are to be rejected, but today we have a similar kind of rules we have similar excess of rules but of a different kind of a different kind so the idea is Prabhupada started the international society for Krishna consciousness that we ultimately want to raise consciousness as consciousness is raised the appropriate values naturally become manifested the appropriate values naturally become manifested so this is where comes in that unless a person is rising in their consciousness they will not value values but they will not value the values and they will not value the rules that are meant to foster the values this doesn't mean that no rules are required rules are of course necessary in society but rules alone are never enough it is rules have to be sustained by complemented by values and when we study scripture, we need to focus on the values within scripture what are the values being taught over here and the ultimate value is the devotional value of remembrance of Krishna, of service to Krishna or sacrifice for Krishna's cause if we focus on those values then what rules in today's world will foster those values will become gradually clearer but if we neglect the essential values then the result will be that we will simply get distracted so so we need to go beyond beyond rules to values beyond doesn't mean we neglect rules we focus on the principle what is the value, what is the principle what is the virtue that is being taught over here and when we focus on that so begin with values when people study scripture when somebody studies scripture in today's world this doesn't make sense to me this doesn't make sense to me I find this not acceptable okay there could be some statements about women about certain groups of people, about certain societies which we find somewhat questionable but instead of getting caught in the statements, what is the value being taught over there, so begin with values then understand what rules today will foster those values will foster those values so this is an extremely important principle to learn and Prabhupada himself was very pragmatic with respect to this what do I mean by pragmatic that Prabhupada when he engaged devotees in serving Krishna, the value was engage everyone in serving Krishna so even when people were from their life members in India, they were not interested in chanting 16 rounds at all so there are hundreds and hundreds of pages of Shila Prabhupada's conversation with life members and there is practically not even one reference where Prabhupada is asking them how many rounds are you chanting, how many rounds is your family chanting are you chanting 16 rounds Prabhupada is not doing that at all Prabhupada focusses on what he is engaging them in service engaging them in service and they served in they assisted in many different ways they helped in in building temples, they helped in establishing contacts and they rendered service so we can say even when Prabhupada is in India Shila Prabhupada's dealings with life members should have focused on values not on rules here we are talking about rules which Prabhupada himself introduced in one sense 16 rounds chanting and but Prabhupada didn't over emphasise them when people are engaged in the service of Krishna they will move forward it's interesting in the 7 purposes of ISKCON, I'll conclude this point, Prabhupada does not mention a single rule Prabhupada does not mention the 4 regulative principles, Prabhupada does not even mention chanting a certain number of rounds and Prabhupada doesn't mention initiation we as a movement often consider or at least I started considering the success of our movement is how many people become initiated but Prabhupada in the purpose of ISKCON does not focus on that, Prabhupada says the purpose of ISKCON is to correct the imbalance of values in society today and now exactly how those values will be adjusted will be corrected and how they will be implemented, that will vary from person to person, from situation to situation and actually Prabhupada has given the example of expertly ensuring that the values are cultivated and the appropriate rules for cultivating those values are are implemented in a way that people are drawn toward Krishna, not alienated away from Krishna so I'll summarise I'll discuss 3 main points today first was that I talked about in this context Prabhupada is, even in the 10th canto he is the first Acharya to have integrated scriptural commentary with social commentary why? because there is a social context in scripture which needs to be explained and secondly Prabhupada wants essential scriptural teachings to be applied in today's social context also so within scripture there is descriptive and prescriptive and Prabhupada with respect to the dowry is focussing on the descriptive part this is why it was this is how it should be now and second part I discussed is that how we need to recognise focus on the values what are the values being fostered over here and once we understand those values, so I talked about dowry, the principle was a way of expressing affection in a socio-cultural context where where the women didn't get inheritance, they got inheritance in some other way through dowry and even that system was variable there was bride price elsewhere that's also described in the Mahabharata and accepted by an Acharya like Bhishma so we don't go to the extreme of Niyamagraha, insisting on the letter of the law or rejecting both the letter and the spirit of the law we understand the underlying values that are to be fostered and then we see following Prabhupada's example how those values could be cultivated in today's world, while we may reject traditional values traditional rules as regressive or repressive but we may be in today's world going towards an excess of rules in some other direction so if we focus only on rules without inspiring values no rule will protect, ultimately rules will be exploited and they will be rejected so Prabhupada started the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, as our consciousness rises, values naturally become important for us and the rules that will help us foster those values, we naturally follow them.
Thank you very much Hare Krishna Is there any quick questions? Thank you Henry Anantaji for your comment. Thank you Susan Mataji also Yes Henry Mataji, do you have a question? Yeah, I was just trying to invite devotees to ask questions even though we only have one minute Let's see if we can see Can you hear me okay? Yes Can I continue? Yes, please go ahead So, making a very important point about you can do so many things but then why do you do it? And we recorded this so many times as a statement in scripture in the bible about even if you can convert the multitude even if you can speak with the tongues of men and angels, even if you can raise the dead or heal the sick if it's done without love it's useless so we want to do things to please Krishna and if that's there, even if the rules aren't followed exactly, but if somebody is doing their humble best, Krishna is pleased that's our criteria tongues are dear, how do you totion on that? Krishna is pleased then everything makes sense otherwise, how many rules you can follow like you mentioned about Prabhupada's goals for ISKCON, not mentioning the rules but the goal is to become close to Krishna pleasing Krishna and come close to each other We've been trying to generate this interactive class, trying to stop it about a quarter to eight so that we can hear the voices of the devotees but thank you very much a very wonderful class, very erudite and we see your sincerity and how much effort you put into making us presentational words of Prabhupada to Krishna There's something from Emily in the chat she has a question can you see it? what happens when the rules imposed to us have no value or go against our values yeah, I think that's the situation of conflict where we may need to go deeper and see if those values if it's not helping us in our if their value is not evident to us, then we may have to enquire from those who know more to see what are the purpose of these and how the underlying values we may be able to pursue them in a slightly different way so it's a we don't have to go to the immediate extreme of rejecting the rules but try to understand from someone who may be better aware of the underlying cultural context about what are the purpose of those particular rules what are the values and then see how those values we can try to inculcate in our life thank you great, Gail followed by Shikshashtakam let's try to be brief Hi Krishna Prabhu I wasn't able to make that connection between two statements that you made that the dowry is not illegal and somehow you connected that to always remembering Krishna ok the point I was making is that Prabhupada is neither Prabhupada is not insisting that dowry has to be implemented in today's world he is saying that this is how it was and these are the customs of the Varanashram Dharma he is giving more of a descriptive explanation of what was there but the essential principle he is not mandating he is not saying that all those who are joining ISKCON in all ISKCON marriages there should be dowry no, that's what I am saying the essential principle is always remember Krishna and that's why the society he started was International Society for Krishna Consciousness so I was giving the example as illustrating the difference between descriptive and prescriptive ok, and would you say that a basic definition for values is just what one considers important in one's life ok, values this is a big subject in itself so ultimately from a philosophical perspective we understand that values or you could say individual values need to be linked with universal or objective values, so what I value should ultimately be linked with what is of actual value and the ultimate value is Krishna Param Hamsa Param Hamsa means what? One who sees the milk in the water and can seek the milk beyond the water, so they can see what is of value Param Hamsa is the person who has the highest values who knows what to seek is of the ultimate value so that's why the word values means that different people may have different values and even people in Satvaguna, Rajoguna, Tamoguna may have different values the important thing is not that we reject or immediately accept we uncritically accept or indiscriminately reject the diversity of values, we try to see how these values are linked or are linking people with that which is of ultimate value or that which is of higher greater value in life based on that the values need to be analysed. Thank you.
Krishna thank you very much I just wanted to comment on the how we implement the values in human society because it seems that values change in society you know, formerly people got very upset when they required seatbelts you gave a pretty extreme example of the car implementing the warning system but seatbelts are pretty practical and smoking not smoking in public areas these are rules that are common sense but nowadays people are, when they got rid of seatbelts they said this is restricting our freedom but rules are necessary in certain circumstances are they not? and also they can become entrenched like I don't know if you've ever heard this proverb that there was a guru who tied up his cat before he spoke and then when the guru died they kept on tying up the cat to the tree and they kept on doing that. I don't know, have you ever heard that proverb? Yeah, the point is that this is where if rules are followed blindly they can become superstitions also just something which you follow blindly so there is definitely rules are required the point I was making is not that rules are not required the point was that rules alone are not enough if along with rules values are not imparted then the rules will either become repressive, will become exploitative for those who are imposing the rules or those on whom the rules are imposed they will become they will become rebellious so yeah, we cannot as you said seatbelts is an important example of how something which is simple which can be done and which doing it is helpful so there are many you could say common sense rules which can help people in functioning better and overall when rules are, see there has to be an implementation of rules but there has to be also an education about the importance of following rules otherwise if it's only fear based or a punitive based imposition it becomes very difficult to sustain over a long period of time so that's why education is important, that's the point I was making at least a significant minority or a significant portion of people need to understand the rationale for the rules and voluntarily accept it, there will be some who will do the right thing without the rules, there is some who will not do the right thing in spite of the rules but for a majority of people we need the rules and the rationale for the rules that's when it will be followed otherwise the bottom line is without Krishna consciousness, without the values of Krishna consciousness guided by higher authority, then we're all lost, we're like a ship at sea without any rudder and we'll end up on the rocks doesn't matter if you have rules or not correct? yeah higher consciousness is required even if the world is not Krishna conscious at least if some level of sattva guna is there that is also helpful of course sattva guna ultimately is not adequate but you could say it's a hierarchy and if everybody is in tamo guna then things are not going to work at all, if everybody is rajo guna then some things will work but they will work only as long as things worldly gratification is being provided for so if there is sattva guna then it's not only worldly gratification but a little long term perspective is there and when there is Krishna consciousness then there is an ultimate holistic vision is there okay thank you thank you Chetan and Sharan Prabhu would anyone else like to contribute a class we have a lot of appreciations in the chat, everybody is appreciating your answer and the subject was very touchy but you handled it expertly, thank you so much Prabhu beautiful, happy to be of service the best way for us as devotees of Krishna to go beyond rules and regulations is to become pure at heart and go beyond the rules purity means ultimately the highest value the more impure we are the more things which are not so valuable we consider them extremely valuable if somebody has the impurity of pride then how much I am respected in society becomes the most important thing so like that in general when we say impurity it can seem a little abstract but generally what is the impurity every impurity makes us over value things which are not too valuable and conversely devalue that which is extremely valuable purity means you could say our subjective values align fully or to a large extent with that which is of objective value so if we consider lust Ajamil he got so captivated by lust that because of that leave alone valuing Krishna, he didn't value his own family, he didn't value his parents he didn't value his wife he just rejected everything for going after a woman whom he had seen what a guy so purity essentially means our subjective values become aligned with that which is of objectively the ultimate value thank you yes Santraj Srimad Bhagavatam ki jai Srila Prabhupada ki jai Chaitanya Charan Prabhu scientist ki jai Jai Hare Krishna.