When bad things happen to good people 2 – Three causes of suffering: God’s will, free will, evil

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Transcript

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Hare Krishna Hare Krishna So today morning we are continuing our discussion on the topic of when bad things happen to good people how to face adversity, how to grow through pain it is a three part series in yesterday’s session I talked about when we turn toward philosophy how is philosophy to be approached so I talked about three main points purpose, person and position the purpose of philosophy is to essentially help us make sense of the things that don’t normally make sense and for that purpose we look not just in one sense for rational sense I don’t want logical explanation but things also need to make emotional sense and then when philosophy is being talked about or is being used who is the person using it what is their nature, what is their character what is their agenda that has to be considered purpose of philosophy should be to elevate people not to manipulate people we talked about how Hiranyakashyapu weaponized philosophy to think that the immortality of the soul can be used to acquire power over many lifetimes so that he could punish God with the death sentence so then lastly we discussed about the position, where is the person, what are they thinking if a person is already afflicted then the person needs to be comforted and elevated and if a person is feeling very complacent then they may have to be shown that they are wrong and they need to work on fixing things so the philosophy should help the person grow so today we will talk about the second part here that how do we make sense, purpose of philosophy is to help make logical rational and emotional sense and here in this particular verse is the most graphic example of where philosophy specifically in this context the philosophy of karma it makes no sense why does it make no sense over here because all the characters here are virtuous and how virtuous they are is being indicated over here that Yudhishthir was so virtuous as to be the son of Dharmaraj generally speaking life is always difficult and when life is difficult there are problems in life and for facing problems we have two resources broadly we can say one resource is our strength or skill in this life we need that isn’t it? that’s resource one A in this world there are people who may cheat us and we have to be intelligent enough to understand who is not trustworthy and therefore we don’t maybe invest money in Ponzi schemes or whatever so we have to have a basic level of strength or skill to do well but beyond that resource two we could say is piety is punya now we can say of course the strength and skill has also come from our past punya but there is some punya which comes during the course of our life and gives us positive results so there is the piety which helps us in less visible ways we can say so now beyond that we could say the resource three could be God’s mercy now of course you can say that God’s mercy is a source of everything is a source of our skill and source of our piety that is true ultimately but still we could consider this is slightly different so specifically we could put this as three concentric circles one is that our skill in this life now we could say strength is also a skill so that is mentioned over here in terms of Arjuna being extremely expert in Gandiva Bhima being expert in terms of his physical strength as well as his skill in mace fighting so we need skill then beyond that we need piety or pious credits so and beyond that we need God’s mercy so God’s mercy can be said to be the source of everything else and our piety can be said to be the source of our present skills but still the skills are something which are more tangible for us now in one sense piety and skill both of these can be considered material punya is invisible but still it is considered it is considered material God’s mercy is ultimately spiritual and these three are broad resources with which we can face problems in life and for somebody whom all three work together then that person gains success broadly speaking say after India recently won the world cup the T20 world cup the Indian captain said it was destiny it was the blessing of God basically now if we consider that many of the Indian players are quite talented among the world’s players not just because we are Indians we like them but they are very talented players just talent or skill alone is not enough for winning there are other factors which also come in and those factors are the adrushta factors those are invisible factors and those factors also need to work in our favour then we get the results so now Bhishma is trying to help Yudhishthir make sense of the situation make sense how Yudhishthir is afflicted with a sense of guilt he is feeling that I did something so terrible I caused the war and I caused the bloodshed resulting from the war but Bhishma is expanding his perspective he said that bad things were done to you again and again and eventually eventually as a result of the unrelenting atrocities that were done to you you were left with no option except to do a bad thing sometimes the nature of the world is that we just have no good choice somebody may say I don’t want to fight I don’t want to get into physical violence I don’t want to get into arguments with people that’s good we don’t want to argue but if a person is falsely accusing us once, twice, thrice, four times five times then sooner or later we may have to stand up for ourselves we may have to get into an argument now we shouldn’t be looking for an argument there are some people who are like that some people who are just looking for a reason to argue that’s not healthy but at the same time if our only principle in the relationships is I don’t want to argue with anyone well and the nature of the world is people will walk over us people will trample us sometimes intentionally sometimes unintentionally so we need to stand up for ourselves sometime or the other so basically in relationships we can say that people can be in interactions or when we interact with others we can be aggressive aggressive means we are just looking for an argument this is a result of rajas but we can also be passive passive means that is a result of tamas we just don’t do anything we just feel sorry for ourselves we are resentful but we don’t do anything at all but in between is that we need to be assertive and that is a matter of sattva sometimes tolerance can be very easily misunderstood that Krishna tells Arjuna but what is Krishna saying or implying by saying tolerate does Krishna imply oh the Kauravas have done so many atrocities towards you just tolerate them and live with it that is not the tolerance that Krishna is calling Arjuna for the tolerance being called for is it is difficult for you to fight against Bhishma and Drona Arjuna has just said ten verses earlier how can I fight against Bhishma and Drona so I should be offering them flowers and respect not shooting arrows at them so that is 2.4 and 2.14 ten verses later Krishna is telling this is the difficult duty that you have to tolerate so sometimes doing bad things happening to us has to be tolerated and sometimes we needing to do bad things has to be tolerated now most of us are ready to tolerate the second thing I will do bad things and justify it in the name of God no that is not the point here sometimes hard decisions are required in life and so bad things doesn’t necessarily mean immoral or illegal I am using bad things here in the sense that things which we may not be comfortable doing things which we don’t feel good doing so we need to tolerate and do those things even if it sometimes means hurting someone we don’t want to go about hurting others so basically here what is generally one aspect of philosophy when I said philosophy helps us to make sense of things that don’t make sense so how does philosophy do that it does it by expanding our vision see a bigger picture so for example if we consider the philosophy of karma it is ok I am saying this person is such a good person why so many bad things happening to this person expand our vision that ok this person is a journey they also lived in the previous life and they did something in the previous life and that could be a result of that so expanding the vision can be like if we talk in terms of it can be lengthening the vision it can be deepening the vision it can be broadening the vision normally when we expand there are three dimensions length, breadth and width whatever you want to use the word in this context so philosophy is meant to expand our vision in various ways so in this case what is happening is Yudhishthira’s vision is Yudhishthira’s vision oh he is almost thinking like my desire and then it led to the bloodshed therefore I am guilty it was my desire specifically for the kingdom that led to the bloodshed this is his vision but what is Bhishma doing Bhishma is expanding his vision and is saying that how if we consider a bigger picture there were series of atrocities done to you now it’s very interesting throughout this whole analysis Bhishma does not even once mention how terrible Duryodhana was that wicked Duryodhana he had tried to disrobe Draupadi he deserved what you what came upon him he is not going in that direction and it’s significant that even in the Bhagavad Gita not even once does Krishna mention that about the atrocities done by the Kauravas many peoples people have a little bit in the west people have a bit of not just aversion but paranoia great fear towards any religious text that seems to call for violence any religious text and they feel ok Muslims have their Quran and they have the idea of a holy war and Hindus have the Bhagavad Gita and that also calls for war and they draw a false moral equivalence between the two and the point is yes after the Bhagavad Gita was spoken a war does occur but the primary purpose of the Bhagavad Gita was not just to get Arjuna to fight if that had been the purpose Krishna could have just described the incident of the disrobing of Draupadi and that would have been enough to get Arjuna’s blood to boil and Arjuna would have pounced on the Kauravas and destroyed them but Krishna does not take that at all in the Bhagavad Gita why? because the Gita’s purpose is not so much to give circumstantial reasons for fighting or they are terrible people therefore they need to be punished it is more for universal principles for decision making how should we act in life Bhishma is also taking the same point whenever any philosophical discussion happens it is not based on circumstantial reasons circumstantial analysis so circumstantial reasons for fighting or not fighting that is not the purpose of the Gita and that is also not the tack which is being taken by Bhishma it is more universal principles for decision making how are we to make decisions in our life that is the principle that is being taught here in the Bhagavad Gita in the Bhagavatam also so he does talk about how virtuous you are so that he can build on the point that actually what happened was terrible and in this purport which actually anticipates the next verse this is just the result of time now Kaala is considered to be a factor which leads to a lot of consequences now is Kaala an independent factor Prabhupada says that Kaala is non-different from the Lord mannetam kaalam ishaanam anadhiridhanam vibhu just in the previous chapter in 1828 Kunti Maharani has while praying to Krishna said that I understand that you are time mannetam kaalam ishaanam so then if Krishna is time then can we say that it is Krishna causing these things so that is what we will be discussing today so first I analyzed how when problems come we have three resources that is our skill then there is our past piety and then beyond that there is God’s mercy so based on these three factors when some disaster or distress comes upon us there are three broad factors in this there is God’s will there is free will and there is evil so we have God’s will free will and evil now in the abrahamic religions evil refers to the being called satan who is evil and makes people do evil things in our tradition there is no conception of anything like satan but free so it is evil refers to the samskaras the impressions that are there within either us or others which make people do bad things even almost against their conscious will or their better intelligence or whatever I will explain this gradually so when something bad happens in our life it is important that we analyze carefully what is the cause of this suffering and say if I put my hand in fire, if I am not attentive say I am sitting in a place which is very cold and that’s why some kind of traditional setting where a fire has been put nearby to put heat and then I don’t pay due attention I just move my hand and the hand goes towards the fire and my hand gets burnt now is that burning due to God’s will well no it’s my present action say if on a cold night somebody eats a dozen ice creams and then the next morning they will say ice cream they will feel like screaming their throat will be so sore now if they have got a terrible throat is that because of their past karma well yes past night’s karma not past life’s karma isn’t it so basically when things happen it is important that we don’t take one statement in isolation so for example there is a statement that our happiness and distress are determined by destiny yes that is definitely true but then scripture also tells us that the more we indulge in sense pleasure the more we suffer so what does that mean if somebody drinks a lot and they have a terrible hangover a splitting headache and they become dysfunctional was that misery made by destiny it was by their decision to drink too much so can our present actions increase our distress if destiny has fixed happiness and distress then does it mean even if a person does terrible things there will be no increase in suffering because of their terrible actions no actions do have consequences isn’t it so if our present actions can increase our distress then happiness and distress are a duality and can our present actions not increase our happiness for example another point is sattvam sukhe sanjayati the bhagavatam says that through sattva guna happiness comes so if somebody consciously cultivates a sattvic lifestyle in this life and maybe they were eating very spicy food very oily food, very unhealthy food and they start following a sattvic diet and their body feels fitter, they feel lighter overall they feel better so was that happiness destined does that mean that our habits in this life are worthless are good habits of no use it’s not that simple for example these are called not contradictions but paradoxes paradoxes means apparent contradictions and the thing which I am trying to do over here is that we are trying to understand the complexity of reality so three paradoxes I’ll give an example of destiny determines happiness and distress which are fixed that’s one statement but the opposite is that sense indulgence sense gratification leads to distress satvaguna brings happiness so this is a different statement so does that mean that the rajoguna, tamoguna or satvaguna choice in our lifetime will make no difference another thing which you could say that our life span is fixed specifically people say number of breaths are fixed that is one statement but then in contrast we have ayurveda the very meaning of ayurveda is the veda the knowledge that will increase our ayu if our life span is fixed then how can our life span be increased and how can the same tradition which has said that our life span is fixed also give rise to a systematic body of knowledge that states that whose express purpose is to increase our life span so this is the second point, now third point if we consider is that not a blade of grass moves without the will of god now there is this gita saar which is put in many places which says one sentence whatever happened was good, whatever is happening is good, whatever will happen will be good now i have read the gita over a dozen times recited it over a hundred times i have friends who have recited gita more than a thousand times but none of us have ever been able to find any words that comes close to this that whatever happens is good its not a philosophically correct statement not a textually correct statement because the gita’s focus is not on whether what is happening is good or not the gita’s focus is on whether what we are doing is good or not arjuna wants to know that i want to know what is the right thing to do so one statement is god controls everything god plans everything god controls everything that happens is good because ostensibly it is god’s plan now verses god controls everything we might say something like 9,10 everything happens under my supervision but then the same krishna in the 5th chapter of the bhagavad gita very categorically declares so so prabhupada is also very categorical in explaining this verse this is in the 5th chapter the 5th chapter verses 11 to 15 are very relevant to what we are discussing here but lets look at this particular verse this is the 15th verse na datte a datte means to accept kase chit papam krishna says that i don’t accept na chaiva sukrutam vipo people do good, people do bad that is their own doing agyanena vrutam jnanam te na muhyanti jantavaha so god controls everything there are people’s misdeeds people’s wrongdoings people’s wrongdoings are not god’s doings people’s wrongdoings are not god’s doings that means say sometimes we say everything that happens is actually done by god and that is an oversimplification why? we consider the disrobing of draupadi now krishna intervened to protect draupadi at that time but if we say krishna is the doer of everything then was it krishna who through dushyasana was disrobing draupadi its a horrendous thing to even consider that was not krishna’s doing that was dushyasana’s doing so now krishna allowed it to happen and we will discuss why he allowed it to happen but the point over here is that there are times in this world when so we go back to these three things so to say that everything is done by god that is a misunderstanding and if everything is not done by god that the bad things are done by bad people then we can’t say that the bad things are good bad things are bad so there is a key difference between saying that everything that happens is good and is for good everything that happens need not be good but it can be for good that means good can come out of whatever bad has happened in the world now that bad may have happened because of free will that means we ourselves made some mistake or it can be because of evil that some bad person did some terrible thing and because of that something happened so for example say when the whole gambling match happened we could say is Yudhishthira responsible well yes at one level the Mahabharata does not idealize characters the Mahabharata gives a very realistic picture of characters in the Bhagavatam there is often the focus on the leela explanation that everything is ultimately the leela of the lord Parikshit Maharaj was cursed because that was the plan of the lord so that the Bhagavatam could be spoken and that is true definitely so Yudhishthira Maharaj gambled so that ultimately how Krishna protects his devotees could be demonstrated so everybody was orchestrated at that time the way Yudhishthira acted the way Bhishma acted all of them acted in such a way that ultimately this particular principle of how Krishna protects his devotees can be demonstrated now is that a valid explanation of course it is a valid explanation as I said yesterday I discussed there can be I don’t have time to go into all this but the pastimes of the lord can be approached at four different levels there is a literal level this is based on Bhaktivinod Thakur talks about this he doesn’t use the acronym but he talks about there is a literal level, there is an ethical level there is an allegorical level and there is a devotional level so the devotional level is where we look at the leela oh this is all the lord’s arrangement to fulfil his purpose which is of course true but at ethical level we need to consider motivations and situations at ethical level we consider okay this person was in this situation and this person did like this okay what were they thinking when they did something like this was their thinking right if I had been in that situation would I have also been pressured to do something similar so the point is that there is an ethical perspective also to be considered from the ethical perspective we could say that Yudhishtir did make a mistake now Yudhishtir himself says that initially when he started gambling it was completely out of intention to respect the instruction of his elders Dhritarashtra was like a father figure for him and Dhritarashtra had called him to gamble through another father figure Vidura so initially so if you see Yudhishtir’s Yudhishtir’s motives for gambling if we consider now this is if we carefully read the Mahabharata itself it happens initially it was deference, deference means basically respectfulness oh my elders have told me to do it, my seniors have told me to do it so I will do it it started with that but after sometime it became despair it was not despair that I want to win, it was not greed but right in the beginning only he had told Duryodhana why do you want to steal from me the wealth that is meant for the service of the brahmanas he didn’t want wealth for his own enjoyment he wanted to do service with that wealth but then as that wealth was being taken away from him one by one by one by one then he started becoming desperate I have to take care of my family, I have to take care of the kingdom I have to serve the brahmanas I need to have something even if one round I win, I will have something so later on when talking with Draupadi Yudhishthir, it is his humility that he acknowledges that I got carried away at that time so it was not greed it was not addiction it was a terrible situation that came and now is Yudhishthir at fault well of course Yudhishthir is at fault we can’t say that he is not at fault but is Yudhishthir the only one at fault of course not there is a whole scheme the whole match was rigged first of all Yudhishthir playing against Shakuni it’s like a street batsman playing against an international fast bowler the chances of winning are right from the beginning or it’s like you know a street kid who is just learning boxing having to play a boxing match against Mike Tyson someone like that who is an international right from the beginning it was rigged so when it was rigged and the rigging was done by people who were evil so it was Duryodhana who was evil and Dhritarashtra who was like a puppet for him so if you consider in terms of villains you know Duryodhana is the active villain and Dhritarashtra is the passive villain so both of them together did something so let this terrible thing happen now did Krishna allow it to happen yes without Krishna’s sanction Upadrashta Anumantacha without Krishna allowing it nothing would have happened but did Krishna make Duryodhana and Dhritarashtra come up with the gambling plan no that was their own evil so the disastrous gambling match if we consider we are trying to understand how things happen in this world the disastrous gambling match was it due to Yudhishthira’s free will yes definitely was it due to Duryodhana’s evil yes definitely isn’t it is it ultimately Krishna’s will in the sense that the will means here more of permission yes it is Krishna’s will also so now the point here is that depending on what perspective we are taking when we analyse situations we need to analyse and find out what is the actionable cause over here which is the cause I want to act on at this particular time do I want to act on the cause or it was my mistake and I need to learn and improve or it is this evil person doing this and I have to fight against this evil person it is God’s will God allowed it to happen so I accept it so here I now I will talk about these three factors and how these three factors when we consider which factor we will different courses of action will need to be taken and those we will be discussing in tomorrow’s session but right now I will make one last point I will talk about the role of Kaala because what does Kaala mean actually in this context that there is time as a factor so earlier I discussed the statement about destiny being fixed or rather destiny fixing our happiness and distress and yet does that mean our present actions don’t have any consequence at all no it doesn’t mean like that I will explain how this works in two terms so destiny and we are talking about destiny and Kaala their relationship but in terms of our actions that is our free will in terms of others actions which I will summarize here as evil now that does not mean that our actions can never be evil and it doesn’t mean the other actions are always evil I am just simplifying it over here our actions means here we can say the Pandavas for example and others are Kauravas so let’s take a simple example and then we will move to a more historical Mahabharata example say suppose when we begin our life journey so we all carry some Daiva Daiva is basically like the accumulation of our past karma say assuming right now let’s focus on the negatives because we are talking about distress that is going to come in our lives suppose somebody has minus 400 you cannot quantify karma like that but just for our purposes that means there are 400 units of negative karma that a person has and say based on that if this is their life during that time they are going to have four adversities that they are going to face maybe one adversity could be they are suddenly fired from their job another adversity is maybe they are cheated by some relative finances maybe another adversity is that they lose some loved one another adversity is that they get some terrible disease they have an accident or a disease so assume that these four big problems are going to come in their lives now when these problems come it’s very difficult to deal with these problems but imagine if these four problems come all nearly at the same time isn’t it? it’s like we lose our job and we have invested some money in a stock market and we find that whole in stock that whole thing is a Ponzi scheme at that same time say you know we get some cancer and at that same time our life partner divorces us and goes away if all four come at the same time it would be unbearable so it’s our own karma coming to us but when it comes to us can make a significant difference now suppose say in this life I am going to have each of we all have some karma which is going to come to us but suppose somebody learns to be polite and courteous and helpful in their relationships then what may happen is even if one person abandons them and goes away they have cultivated relationships because of which others will be there to help them suppose somebody has learned financial responsibility that means it is that they earn money and they spend it all and they often spend more than what they earn they may be earning a lot but they are spending more than what they earn and they are financially irresponsible then what happens they will be in big trouble if they lose their job or if their investment goes off but if they learn financial responsibility so either I am talking of courteous behavior or financial responsibility these are basically characteristics of satva guna then what may happen is that they may lose their money they may lose their job, they may lose their savings they lose their investment but they have cultivated a habit so they will have if they are financially responsible they won’t put all their money in one place in the hope of getting big gains they will diversify, that’s common sense it’s intelligence, it’s common sense it’s satva guna on the other hand suppose somebody is supposed to get some cancer now if they get that cancer but if throughout their life they have eaten in a regulated way they have practiced good habits like exercise or health then they will have good immunity relatively speaking and their chances of battling with the cancer will be better so the point is that even if our past karma is fixed but kala will play a significant role in how that karma unfolds in our life so that means whenever that karma is going to come that is a bad kala for us so now sometimes astrologers may say your shani is here and your mangal is here and all those things now the way we sometimes speak it, it’s as if shani or mangal are causing the problems to us it is not Saturn or Mars that cause the problems, it is they are indicative of our own past karma’s reactions coming to us at a particular time so it’s the point is that kala plays a significant role and during some kala it may be that some negative reactions are coming to us but that kala may get aggravated because of our actions and then things can become far worse than what they need to be so that means say we could say that the kala factor on one side is associated with purva karma so it is associated with purva karma because of our past actions we are going to suffer certain things but if that the purva karma it can minus present karma that means what? say by my past karma I am going to have a terrible misunderstanding with someone and two good friends are going to have a misunderstanding by which they are going to quarrel and they are going to fight but if my present karma is such that I have been responsible I have been sensitive, I have been respectful I have been kind then what will happen is the result will be the problem will be lesser because my present karma is in one sense subtracting from the past karma on the other hand my present karma could add to the past karma I have a quarrelsome nature I quarrel with everyone whenever problems come my solution is to out shout the other person like some people they think that if there is an argument I need to improve the content of my argument others think I need to raise the volume of my voice or if raising the volume of my voice doesn’t work I start raising my fists well if they start thinking like that then what will happen is the result in terms of the problem can worsen so the kala will determine that how our present action should be I am not endorsing astrology over here because each astrologer can have their own idiosyncrasies but the point is when some astrologer says this is a bad phase for you you know don’t make any major decisions in your life, don’t invest money, don’t do this don’t do that, what is the point over there the implication behind that is that there can be phases that are bad for us so during those bad phases if we are careless the problems will become worse say somebody by some past karma they met with a road accident now if at that time if they have a habit of driving carefully and they see from the opposite side somebody just coming, swerving, shakily driving probably that driver is drunk then what do you do? you try to stop your car or move your car out of the way or stop your car and get out of the car now that person may come and hit our car, we may get injured but we may not get that much injured but say imagine that person is drunk and we are also drunk then it is going to be a drunken disaster isn’t it? so it is like drunk square so it will be a problem raised to the power of two so the point I am making is kala can affect when kala is going we are going through a particular kala our own actions will make a significant difference not entire difference, accident may still happen but it will make a significant difference the second point is kala and others actions so here this is really the launch point for our discussion tomorrow in the 9th chapter of the Bhagavad Gita Krishna analyses how he does not control everything this controllership of Krishna I will talk about more in tomorrow’s session also but Krishna used the example in 9.6 so he says that if you consider sky to be like an upside down bowl then if the sky is like an upside down bowl then he says that the wind can move up and down left and right within the perimeter of the sky but it cannot move beyond the sky so like that we can say each one of us by our purva karma we have a particular kshetra so this we can call as the kshetra kshetra is the area of influence so for everyone there is a particular kshetra the kshetra can change with kalas somebody may somebody may born in a royal family but if they are just a prince right now they have some power but in future they become king they have much more power for example somebody when they are a child they may have this much kshetra when they become if that person becomes the king their kshetra may become much bigger then afterwards they become old and they are no longer on the throne, their kshetra again goes down so the kshetra the sphere of influence that a person has can change with time now sometimes say there is a this is where I am talking about the factor of the person is evil the person is a terrible person and now if somebody else happens to come in their kshetra say somebody was a Jew who was born in Germany at the time when Hitler was ruling now what happens is they come under the kshetra under the sphere of influence of Hitler now Hitler by his past karma was meant to be a powerful king now he could have been a powerful ruler powerful head of state for good or for bad he chose to do it all for a terrible purpose but he had that option he got that power he could have used it for good, he could have used it for bad now when he got that power and he used it for bad that was that led to other people becoming victimised now when the other person is victimised it is horrible and at such a time the intelligent thing to do is not to point out or intelligent or sensitive thing to do is not to emphasise oh you know you must have done, all those people must have done some bad karma because of which they suffered well that is not the relevant factor at that particular point nobody tells for example Draupadi that you know you must have done some bad karma because of which you suffered the humiliation of being disrobed no that may be a factor but that is not the relevant factor where the relevant factor is Dushyasan did a horrible thing and Dushyasan deserves to be punished but the point is while a person has some power then if say we happen to be going through their kshetra so say we work in a company and the way things work out is that we come under a particular boss we have to work with a particular boss and that boss is known to be very demanding very rude has no respect for boundaries anytime the person calls and demands now maybe for 6 months we have to work under that boss and after that we might go into another team we might go into another project now during those 6 months that is our kala we are in the kshetra of that person and when we are in the kshetra of that person we have to deal with it so when here Bhishma will say that I consider this all to be the result of kala now kala is also working under the control of the lord but what happens in that phase is not necessarily directly caused by god that kala is coming in our life because of our past our misuse of free will or it is coming because of some evil that someone is doing so what is coming because of kala it is not independent of god but that doesn’t mean it is caused by god for such kala we have to accept that bad things happen even to good people that’s why when he is giving all these examples all these points that Yudhishthira is so virtuous you are so powerful and Krishna is with you but still bad things happen so now for most of us Krishna is not there visibly with us but the Mahabharata example shows that even when Krishna is directly with some person still bad things can happen to that person so the point is in this world nobody is immune from bad things happening and so the question that the scriptures they ask the question that we will be exploring in the next session the question is why do bad things happen to good people and that is a valid question and it can be answered using the philosophy of karma and other things but this is not the this is not the focus of the Bhagavad Gita and in general for most people who are suffering this is not the most important question that when bad things happen what do good people do when bad things happen what do good people do this is a much more constructive question to ask if somebody is suffering there is no point at that time in getting into past karma not no point most of the times it is not very helpful it is sometimes karma can be an explanation but the more important thing is what is the way we can help them right now I met one devotee in in New Zealand and that devotee that devotee’s sister had committed suicide now suicide is a terrible thing somebody must be so so tormented that they felt death is better than living but you know there is a whole thing called survivor’s syndrome or survivor’s trauma that when somebody commits suicide those who survive them they face great trauma did I do something that pushed this person over the edge one of my friends is telling me that one day he was just chanting and he had his phone with him and one of his counsellors sent a message please accept my final obeisances it is such an alarming thing to get a message like that what happened now so it is like from one side did I do anything that pushed the person over the edge or the other is could I have done something to prevent it so this is the trauma that the survivors go through so at that time if all that we draw from our philosophy whoever has committed suicide has become a ghost it is like we are adding to the trauma of the survivor over there isn’t it somebody who destroys their body prematurely then they won’t get an ex-body immediately and in that intermediate phase they will have to stay in a disembodied state and that disembodied state is called a state of being a ghost but this point is relevant to deter people from committing suicide somebody thinks all my problems I will end by ending my life well it is not that simple it doesn’t work like that so that is for somebody who may be thinking of that don’t do it you will be in a further state of suffering but for somebody who has lost a loved one at that time talking about they have become a ghost is not very helpful so at that time the most important thing is that ok I told that whatever has happened they are souls and even for a soul the parmatma is with that person parmatma doesn’t abandon anyone parmatma doesn’t abandon even ghosts also the lord is there so now whatever has happened you just focus on strengthening your relationship with god strengthening your relationship with Krishna practice bhakti and you heal from that wound that what has happened it has happened we can’t change it but what do we do now how do we move forward was it because of our bad action did we do something we don’t know there is how much should we hold ourselves responsible when bad things happen how much we should see things as beyond our control like prabhupada says in the last sentence of this purport there is no use purport has gone now there is no use to lament when things are beyond our control ok it won’t go back when things are beyond human control there is no use of lamenting so there are times when trying to analyze was it my mistake was it this person’s mistake that may not be the most helpful thing so how to function in such situations we will be discussing in tomorrow’s session so today it’s not so much it’s not so much some clear directive for action but it is more appreciating the complexity and the nuance of the situation so I will summarize what we discussed today basically our whole analysis was try to understand Kaala as the cause of adversity what does it mean basically because that’s what the section was going to talk about so in that connection we started by discussing how karma doesn’t seem to explain that they all had done good karma so it’s like it was three factors were there in their favor they had skill which is their present karma they had punya, piety that was their past karma and they had God’s mercy so Prabhupada says material and spiritual resources both were there on their side and still they are suffering so at such times it’s natural question why adversity so karma can seem too simplistic at this time and in that connection I discussed how paradoxes, how things are complex that if we just reduce everything to very simple things the paradoxes were given to illustrate complexity of reality that sometimes there are statements in scripture which tell opposite things, so the three things I discussed the examples of complexity was that happiness and distress at this time but then still our choices sattva can increase happiness and say tamas or even rajas to some extent can increase distress, so that is also true so like that we discussed multiple fixed life span versus ayurveda and then maya adhyakshen prakriti versus na datte kasyacit papa so God controls everything and God does not control everything so our whole point was we can’t just take one statement from scripture and absolutize it so for all suffering it’s your own karma we can’t take that kind of oversimplified approach so when problems come I discussed problems can broadly it is ultimately nothing happens without God’s will there is free will and then there is evil and we need to consider which is the relevant factor when for understanding what’s happening so based on finally with this whole analysis we talked about kala kala means that when we are going through a bad phase that bad phase could be because of our own past karma that our destiny may come upon us and then how we act can either alleviate alleviate means minimize the affect or aggravate and then the bad phase can come also because of so here when we are talking about the bad phase this is largely free will it is up to us to how do we face the bad phase but then the bad phase can also come because of evil evil means others actions so others kshetra we are temporarily passing through that kshetra and when we are passing through that kshetra at that time during that phase we may have to suffer so the focus needs to be on not why this happened but what to do how do when bad things happen to good people what do good people do so what do the what does Bhishma recommend you to do that we will be discussing in tomorrow’s session thank you very much Hare Krishna so are there any questions or comments so I am afraid many of the questions may have to be answered we will have to wait for the answers tomorrow but you can ask the question but be ready to wait for the answer tomorrow because I am not going to give tomorrow’s class today Hare Krishna Prabhuji thank you for this divine lecture so as you told that if we come in contact with an evil person under their circle of influence so that can aggravate our bad karma so I don’t think it aggravates our bad karma it just aggravates our bad situation not our bad karma unless we associate with them and we also become evil so in case of Jews they had no choice actually if we see at a bigger perspective so what’s their fault in that case that they had to come in contact with a person like Hitler see from a if you want to take a purely rational perspective why does one person come under the kshetra of another person that is by karma say somebody is born at a time when a very good king is ruling why is that that’s because of good karma somebody is born at a time when a tyrant a dictator is ruling that’s because of bad karma so this is just a fact of life but what I was saying is that may not be the most relevant explanation at that time we don’t focus on that because where is the where should the focus be in such a way that we can help someone our attitude should be at most of the times should be focused on helping the other person so when somebody is suffering somebody has gone through terrible suffering we need to focus on how can I help that person if you only focus on their own karma if you don’t basically philosophy without service attitude will make us hard hearted because consider everybody suffers because of their past karma that is true but if I take this and I don’t have a service attitude then where am I going to stop say for example a mother has a newborn baby and the newborn baby is crying now should the mother think the baby is crying because of her own past karma no the mother should have a service attitude isn’t it it is her mother’s duty itself I have to take care of my child sometimes in spite of the best care taken by the mother still the baby may have some disease because the baby keeps crying that we can say is because of beyond our control that is past karma so philosophy without service attitude can make us hard hearted and it can make us terribly irresponsible if say if we are robbed some thieves come into our house and rob everything from us and we go to the police and the police say it was your own past karma isn’t it because you are robbed well yeah no that may be my past karma but right now the question is what is your present dharma isn’t it so your present dharma is you are taking a salary and that is to maintain law and order over here so your present dharma is what is important if a husband doesn’t take responsibility of the family, doesn’t have a job and doesn’t earn money and the wife says we are living in great difficulty he says it is your own karma no it is your dharma or consider the opposite you know if the wife doesn’t cook food very well and the husband comes back home after a hard day’s work and he says where is the food chapati is not cooked properly it is your own karma no it is your dharma that is important over there isn’t it so that is the point yes Hare Krishna thank you so much for this detailed lecture Prabhuji as you explained how Kaal acts in our life but as we also have heard from the scriptures that Kaal acts differently in case of devotees and non devotees so I want to ask how it acts differently what is the difference Krishna’s role will be discussed about tomorrow Kaal itself doesn’t act differently Kaal acts symmetrically but Krishna gives us strength to respond to Kaal differently see if you consider Kaal as a as a material factor there is always the relationship of ved and abhed difference and non difference so if we consider Kaal as say the changing of seasons now if it is very hot it is going to be hot for devotees it is going to be hot for non devotees also isn’t it the summer heat is not going to act differently for devotees and non devotees but somebody who is extremely in bodily consciousness they will feel tormented by it now devotees who are not so much in bodily consciousness will still be inconvenienced by it but maybe they are not so troubled by it so it is not so much Kaal acts differently it is more that the way we respond to it is different can Kaal act different that is also possible but we don’t have to expect or insist or demand that it act differently the focus is more on that we respond differently there are two things when I heard from you there are two things coming to my mind one is like you said there are three things one is the God’s will one’s own free will and others will like then there are two things happen like one is that in our life by our free will we can do good or bad similarly others will they can also try the same thing so that creates a situation in our life but then sometimes that is what we are suffering or enjoying by that process but when we see the Mahabharata where Pandavas Kauravas are there and Lord Krishna was also there and we say it is been orchestrated by Krishna’s Leela the way people behave was designed by Krishna so my point is how do we jump from one set of things happening like our will and others will versus something totally happening by God’s will how do we jump from one to other so that is what I talk about the four levels at which scripture can be understood so there is the ethical level and there is the devotional level see I don’t think we can jump from one to another it is like we take two different perspectives if you want to focus on the devotional perspective focus on the devotional perspective and then yes it is all arranged by the Lord and we relish it as the Lord’s pastor but if we want to look at from the ethical perspective then focus on the ethical perspective then if we suddenly jump from the at one moment we are talking about the ethical and the next moment we jump to the devotional that doesn’t work it is like say if we are authority figure and if somebody has not done their service properly and we chastise that person left and right you didn’t do this, you didn’t do this and that same person comes and tells ok I wanted to do this service but this person was supposed to help and this person didn’t help and at that time we say see it as Krishna’s arrangement that means when I make a mistake you blame me for it but when somebody else has made a mistake you say see it as Krishna’s arrangement that is being inconsistent we may say that person has that particular nature and that person is working on improving it but they keep making mistakes like this but if we simply start using philosophy selectively then people feel they may not immediately realize it but they will feel uncomfortable they will get alienated so we have to be consistent so yes should we try to see things from the perspective of Krishna’s hand of course but does that mean that we don’t look at immediate factors no, when Prabhupada was trying to get the Juhu temple and this Mr. N was opposing it did Prabhupada say oh it’s all Krishna’s arrangement Krishna doesn’t want this temple to come to us, what can we do no Prabhupada focused on the practical level ethical level, he said that we have given the money, this person is supposed to give us the land either Prabhupada said either you give us our money back and take the land or you give us the full land and we take the full money from us you are taking the money from us and then driving us away, that’s not ethically right so if we start jumping from one to another there has to be a proper reason and explanation for that otherwise it can just come off as very self serving so when you make a mistake, it’s your punishment it’s your problem when I make a mistake, it is Krishna’s plan for your purification oh that would work properly so now can we look at things from a practical perspective, yes we can because scriptures themselves do this when if you read the Mahabharata nowhere in the Mahabharata does Krishna say you do this because it is my instruction Krishna reasons Krishna tells Bhima to hit Duryodhana below the thigh below the waist on the thigh after that Balram and even the Devatas, they get angry Devatas protest basically, Balram gets angry now Krishna doesn’t say I am God how dare you question my will Krishna makes a reasoning based on the context over there so is the ethical reasoning the only approach to look at his past times no, but is the ethical reasoning approach completely inapplicable well if they say it is completely inapplicable then there will be nothing for us to learn in that, through any of the scriptural past times my understanding is Prabhupada takes a devotional approach, Prabhupada also takes the ethical approach so even in the respect of Prabhupada’s past times, now can we say all of Prabhupada’s extraordinary outreach and success was arranged by the Lord yes, it is true but does that not mean that we can’t learn something from Prabhupada when Prabhupada was trying so vigorously to share bhakti in India, it was not working Prabhupada didn’t just passively say okay, accept it as Krishna again, Prabhupada did something revolutionary, radical courageous, he said I will go to America and I will try to make American people devotees now why, because Prabhupada said Indians are attracted by the infatuated with the best what does it mean, Indians are infatuated with the white skin basically so now Indians being infatuated by the white skin is maya isn’t it, but Prabhupada used one brand of maya to counter another brand of maya isn’t it so one brand of maya is what that oh, you know this whole Krishna, this whole bhakti this whole Bhagavad Gita, it is all all old fashioned it is irrelevant for us another brand of maya is oh, the white skin people are so intelligent, they are so expert, they are so successful now Prabhupada is directly trying to counter, you know, tell and explain how the Bhagavad Gita is relevant but people are not ready to take it so Prabhupada went to the west so now the point I am making is, that can we not analyse like this, that ok, Prabhupada tried at one level, when it didn’t work he didn’t take it as Krishna’s will he analysed and he arrived at a particular decision and then he focused on applying the strategy so the ethical approach can also be used, the transcendental approach can also be used, but your point is well taken that when we are dealing with sacred characters our focus should not be so much on who is right because we don’t want to be judging great characters our focus should be more on what is right so if you see in the Chitra Ketu pastime for example when Chitra Ketu laughs on seeing Parvati sitting on the lap of Lord Shiva so at that time sometimes Prabhupada takes takes Parvati as perspective and says in the Chitra Ketu when he saw that there were great sages sitting over there, none of them was objecting why did he have to object to that but then afterwards when Chitra Ketu very gracefully accepts the curse and then Narayana Parashara that verse comes up how a devotee is equipoised at that time Prabhupada takes from the perspective of in favour of Chitra Ketu, he says that when Chitra Ketu laughed, Lord Shiva was not disturbed, the sages were not disturbed so why did Parvati have to become so angry so was the cursing wrong, was the laughing wrong the point is that our focus is not so much on whether this particular action was wrong or right our focus is more on that what we can learn about right and wrong action from that situation thank you very much one last question there are lot of questions one last question Thank you for such a wonderful class my question is you explained like in example of Draupadi’s disrobing there were three factors Yudhishthira’s free will Duryodhana’s free will and Krishna’s will in the form of permission that he allowed so Prabhuji, can we understand some example where Krishna’s permission was not there and then what happened in that incident happened or it didn’t happen Krishna’s intention may not be there but without Krishna’s permission nothing can happen for example when Krishna went as a Shanti Doot as a peace messenger Duryodhana rejected his peace proposal so Krishna’s desire was that the war be avoided but Duryodhana was just so adamant that he just didn’t listen so can things happen against God’s will well it depends the will when we use the word will will can mean God’s intention so can people do things which God doesn’t want them to do, of course they can but can people do things which is against God’s permission no that nobody can do so without that permission is like the sky say for example, right now you can get angry, I can get angry maybe if I get angry, I may yell at someone if you get angry, maybe you can yell at someone you can hit someone but our anger cannot destroy a whole city but the president of America or the president of Russia, if they get angry they can press one button and the entire city can be nuked so that is the Kshetra they have right now so now why do they have that level of influence that is by Krishna and there is a Kaala when they will have it they will have it for a tenure sometimes 5 years 10 years, sometimes a particular head of state may be there for 20, 30, 50 years but eventually that Kaala is going to end so nothing happens without Krishna’s permission so thank you very much