Appreciating Lord Rama Vedic Vaishnava And Gaudiya Vaishnava Perspectives

I’ll explain the meaning of this verse and then we’ll move forward.
So this is Kapivara, Santata, Samsmita Rama. Kapi is a monkey. Kapivara is the best of the monkeys is Hanuman.
Kapivara, Santata, Samsmita Rama. Always, constantly, they were remembering Santata, Samsmita Rama. They were constantly, the monkeys were remembering Lord Ram.
And what did Lord Ram do in return? Tadgati, on their path. Vigna, Vigna is obstacle. Dhamsaka, Dhamsaka is the Lord reciprocated with their remembrance by removing obstacles from their path.
Dhamsaka Rama, such is the Lord Ram that we glorify. So let’s begin with our prayers before that. Namaste Saraswati Deve Gauravani Pracharine Nirvishesh Shunyavadi Pashchatya Deshatarine Vancha Kalpataru Bhyascha Krupasindhubhyaevacha Patitanam Pavanibhyo Vaishnavibhyo Namo Namaha Jai Shri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nityananda Shri Advaita Gadadhara Shri Vasadhi Gaurabhakta Vrinda Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare There is another device in that.
Can you just check that? Just a minute. Sorry for the delay. So let’s just recite this verse quickly and then we will discuss something about Lord Ram today.
So these are two names of Lord Ram. Kapivara, as I said the best of monkeys. Santata, always.
Samsmruta. Samsmruta is remember. Kapivara, Santata, Samsmruta, Rama Tadgati, on their path, their progress.
Vighna. Vighna is obstacle. Dhamsaka.
Dhamsaka is to destroy. So the basic is the principle of Bhakti that when we remember the Lord, the Lord destroys the obstacles on our path. Kapivara, Santata, Samsmruta, Rama Tadgati, Vighna, Dhamsaka, Rama Kapivara, Santata, Samsmruta, Rama Kapivara, Santata, Samsmruta, Rama Tadgati, Vighna, Dhamsaka, Rama Kapivara, Santata, Samsmruta, Rama Kapivara, Santata, Samsmruta, Rama Tadgati, Vighna, Dhamsaka, Rama Kapivara, Santata, Samsmruta, Rama Kapivara, Santata, Samsmruta, Rama Tadgati, Vighna, Dhamsaka, Rama Once more let us try to do it all together if possible.
Kapivara, Santata, Samsmruta, Rama Tadgati, Vighna, Dhamsaka, Rama Kapivara, Santata, Samsmruta, Rama Tadgati, Vighna, Dhamsaka, Rama Last time. Kapivara, Santata, Samsmruta, Rama Tadgati, Vighna, Dhamsaka, Rama Thank you. So, I will talk about Lord Rama today from three perspectives.
I will talk about the distinctiveness of Lord Rama from the broad Vedic perspective. Then I will talk about from the Vaishnava perspective. And then we will see what is the, if there is any significance of Lord Rama within our particular tradition in the Gaudiya Vaishnava perspective.
So, we will try to take a closer and closer look at Lord Rama. Now, the concept of Avatar is the idea that there is a higher world, there is a spiritual world and there is a material world. And from this higher world, the Lord descends down to this world.
That descent is called as Avatar. So, it’s like there are clouds in the sky with lots of rain. But on the earth, if there is a severe lack of water, there is a drought.
Then when the rain comes, then water becomes available on the earth. So, like that, the spiritual world is filled with the flood, with the abundant water of Krishna Consciousness, of God Consciousness. Whereas the material world is like a drought of Krishna Consciousness over here.
Drought of Divine Consciousness. So, when the Avatar comes, the Avatar beings, like a rain of Divine Consciousness. And this Avatar, there are many different Avatars who come into this material world at different times.
And among the various Avatars, each of them has their own mission. That is, each Avatar on one side has a universal mission and then there is a specific mission. So, the universal mission is described in the Bhagavad Gita that at one level there is to establish Dharma.
To establish order in the world. And for establishing the order, the Lord does two things. He empowers those who are virtuous.
And then he disempowers. Sometimes the disempowerment may even involve destroying them. Those who are vicious.
But along with that, so this is described in 4.7 and 8 in the Bhagavad Gita. But along with that, there is another mission of the Lord, which is to inspire love in the heart. That is, so generally in the broad Hindu tradition, the verse, is very widely quoted.
If you look at Srila Prabhupada’s works, Srila Prabhupada quotes the next verse, Much more. That Krishna comes not just to establish order in this world. That is definitely there.
But, By the power of time, the order of this world will give way to disorder eventually. The ultimate, the enduring purpose of the Lord, when there is a descent, actually the descent of the Lord, there is a divine descent and that is meant to inspire the human ascent. The rising of the human consciousness.
So when we hear the pastimes of the Lord, when we understand how loving and how glorious he is, then by that we become attracted towards him and we become attracted towards him. Then Krishna says, That person comes to me, attains me. So that to inspire love in the heart through bhakti that culminates in love, that is described in 4, 9 and 10.
So we could say this is to establish dharma in the world to inspire prema in the heart. So we could say this is almost like a, you could have an inverted funnel. That dharma is for all of society.
Now prema or bhakti culminating in prema, that is for those people who are seeking it. Krishna devotion or love cannot be forced. It needs to be inspired.
So the dharma is established and bhakti and prema are inspired. This is the common purpose of all avatars. Now specifically when the Lord descends to the world, at that time each avatar has a particular purpose.
Now we could say that when Lord Ram descended, who was the demon? Who was the vicious person who had to be disempowered? That is Ravana. Yes, and then the Lord freed the pious people from his clutches. The devatas appealed to him.
Now that is definitely there. So that’s a specific application of that universal purpose. But along with that, there is something more going on over there.
It’s also that if we look at the Valmiki Ramayana, the Valmiki Ramayana, each book has its own driving question. So for example, the Bhagavatam, its driving question is that, what is the question that is being answered throughout the Bhagavatam? Yes, so duty at death. Now, the Gita is a part of the Mahabharata.
And the Gita’s question is about duty, dharma in general. That’s why the question that Arjuna asks Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita, when he surrenders, he says, I want to know, what is dharma? Now, if you go to the Ramayana, the Ramayana also is a similar deliberation. It begins with Valmiki Muni asking, Narada Muni, who is his guru, that who is an ideal person? What are the characteristics of an ideal person? So the idea is the same principle of duty or dharma, but here it’s more specifically in terms of attributes and examples.
What are the characteristics of an ideal person? And what is the example of such a person who is ideal? So now in response to this, Narada Muni tells a brief story of Lord Ram. He gives a summary of his pastimes. And then, Valmiki Muni, just like in the Bhagavatam, it’s described that after hearing in chapters 4th, 5th and 6th of the Bhagavatam, Narada Muni speaks to Vyasadeva.
And then Vyasadeva enters into a Samadhi. He remembers the Lord’s pastimes. And then the Bhagavatam unfolds.
So something similar happens in the Ramayana. So he hears the core pastimes, the summary, and Valmiki Muni enters into a trance, and he then speaks the past. So the whole, in one sense, the purpose of the Ramayana is to demonstrate how one can stick to dharma, how one can do the right thing, even amid difficult situations.
So because of this specific purpose, within the Ramayana, now I’m talking here specifically in terms of the Valmiki Ramayana. The Valmiki Ramayana’s purpose is to demonstrate the character of an ideal person. So sometimes when there is a movie, here right now we have Hollywood, hundreds of movies are produced.
Sometimes a movie is like a one-person show. One hero or one heroine, and that person carries the whole movie, and everybody else is just like an extra. But some movies in which every character has their own personality, their own backstory, every character is fascinating.
And when that happens, the story becomes even more absorbing. You could say the illusion becomes better in one sense. But the point is that especially a movie is considered good when it doesn’t just depend on one person.
The supporting cast, they are also very well-played, their characters are well-written. So like that if you see, this book is called Ramayana, but in Ramayana, every character is special. Undoubtedly Lord Ram is the centre.
But it’s not like Lord Ram is the show-stealer. It’s that Lord Ram, he is extraordinary, but even the character of Sita is extraordinary, the character of Lakshman is extraordinary. And among the various books of the Ramayana, the sections of the Ramayana, the most popular is the Sundarkand.
Sundarkand is where Hanuman goes in search of Lanka, goes to Lanka in search of Sita, and his adventures are described. And the significance of this particular story is the verse which we recited that is depicting the Sundarkand. So what happens is, in this Sundarkand, it is the most popular part of the Ramayana, and yet Lord Ram is least present in this.
So how it happens is, right at the beginning, Hanuman is sent by Lord Ram. Lord Ram gives him a signet, says if you find Sita, show this to her. Then she will know that you are authentic messenger sent by me.
And then after that, it’s Hanuman’s adventures, he is searching for Sita, he is becoming a natural leader of the group. Hanuman is not appointed as the leader of the group who is going. Angada, the son of the previous King Wali, is the leader.
Many times nowadays indeed in management circle leadership, they talk about like authority without influence. Sorry, like influence without authority. You don’t have an authority position, but how do you acquire influence? So Hanuman does that.
And the Lord gives him intelligence at various times to do that. And then again Lord Ram appears at the end when Hanuman comes back and reports that he has found Sita and the Lord embraces him. So apart from this, Hanuman is not present much in the most popular section of the Sundarkand.
Sorry, Ram is not present. Sorry, sorry. I guess my intelligence is not present now.
Thank you. So now I was talking from a Vedic perspective. The concept of avatar, it is meant to inspire the human ascent.
Certainly. So the human ascent is what it is not just that the Lord does wonderful things. The Lord empowers Hanuman to do wonderful things.
And discuss this theme a little later again. But the point is, when we devote ourselves to the Lord, some people feel that, okay, if I become devoted, I’m chanting Krishna’s names. I am glorifying him.
What about me? Do I lose my individuality? Do I lose my personality? No, not at all. Actually, our purest, our noblest, our highest side starts manifesting. And the more Hanuman tries to serve the Lord, the more he starts becoming more and more powerful.
So the Vedic understanding is, the Lord descends to this world. Now the idea of avatar is accepted even in the impersonalist traditions. But their idea is, avatar is just like a temporary or a convenient illusion to come out of illusion.
But in the Vaishnava understanding, the avatar, so moving from the Vedic perspective to the Vaishnava perspective now, because the mood of bhakti comes more in the Vaishnava perspective, that the avatar descends to inspire love in the heart. And the bhakti that is inspired, that is eternal. It is not at all temporary.
It is not that we have bhakti till we become liberated. There are many retellings of the Ramayana that have been told from an impersonalist perspective also. Because the Ramayana in India became so popular over time, that different people started using the Ramayana to try to promote their own agendas.
So the impersonalist retold the Ramayana in such a way that, okay, ultimately Ram merged into the Brahman. There is another retelling of the Ramayana called the Jain Ramayana. So the Jain Ramayana, what it is? Jainism is a relatively small but influential religion in India.
Influential because Jains are known to be quite wealthy. But now these Jains, they retold the whole Ramayana. Moral of the story is the same.
But what they did in that is, when Lord Ram is in the forest, throughout he is meeting various Jain sadhus. And they are giving him instructions. And then at the end, when Sita enters into the earth and returns to where she has come from, then they say Ram becomes enlightened and embraces Jainism.
So everybody tries to portray things from their perspective. This is called misappropriation of tradition or appropriation of a tradition by some other tradition. But that’s why I am differentiating.
In the Vedic understanding, Lord Ram is understood in many different ways. But the Ramayana itself is a Vaishnava book. And in the Vaishnava understanding, the love between the Lord and the devotee is eternal.
And that’s why when this particular theme is focused on Bhakti, is about inspiring, empowering the devotees. I will talk about two incidents which illustrate this dynamism of Hanuman and Ram. Hanuman in one sense is the quintessential servant.
Sri Prabhupada said that for the spreading of our movement, we need Brahmanas with a Kshatriya spirit. We need Brahmanas, people who are thoughtful, philosophical, intellectual. But if somebody is only a Brahmana, they will just be satisfied with their own thoughts.
If somebody wants to come and learn about the thoughts, that, okay, you can come and learn. But if you don’t want, I won’t bother about you. So in general, what happens is, Brahmanas and Kshatriyas.
So Brahmanas are concerned more about inner change. They are concerned about improving their thoughts, thinking higher, learning better. Now, Brahmanas are important in society.
But if they are only Brahmanas, now we are talking about Brahmanas not at all by birth, but by attributes. Now Kshatriyas are concerned about outer change. Kshatriyas want to improve things in the world.
Now, of course, they also want inner change, but they want to make outer change in a way that inner change will become easier. So now for them, they want to improve things. Now, if Sri Prabhupada, of course, he was a Vaishnava, but if he had just been Brahmana, wanting to improve thoughts, he could have just lived in Vrindavan.
Prabhupada left Vrindavan at an advanced age to come to America. Why? Because he wanted to follow his spiritual master’s instruction and create change in the world. If the whole world cannot become spiritualised, at least there will be oasis in the spiritual world where those who want relief from the desert can be there.
So that same mood of like a Brahmana and Kshatriya spirit. Hanuman is a quintessential devotee. Hanuman is often shown with folded hands, but within those folded hands, in between them, there is a mace.
You may have seen that picture. So the idea is the folded hands convey bhakti and the mace conveys shakti. So bhakti is that inner devotion.
Shakti is the power to bring about an outer change. That’s very similar. Prabhupada said Brahmana with a Kshatriya spirit.
So for a devotee to actually bring about change in the world, that there is an inner and outer. That inner vigour is required for purifying our hearts through sadhana. But outer vigour is also required to help people come to Krishna, help people come to the Lord.
So maam anusmara yudhyacha, the Bhagavata says. Maam anusmara is improve your inner thoughts. But yudhyacha is fight to, we may not have to fight a physical war, but fight whatever challenges we face in life so that the service that we are doing manifests in the form of tangible results.
So now we’ll talk about this, how the remembrance of the Lord actually removes obstacles from our heart. When Hanuman went in the search of Sita, as I said in the Valmiki Ramayan, there is in the Sundarkand, there is not much presence of Lord Ram directly. But when Hanuman comes back after going to Lanka, now he has been told to find Sita.
He not only finds Sita, he gives a warning to Ravan and not just a warning in words, he gives a warning through actions. He burns nearly half of Lanka. The point is not wanton violence.
The point is deterrence. That Ravan is thinking, what can this human and monkey do to me? But he wants to show him how powerful they are. And when he comes back, we are told to go and distribute at least 50 books and somebody goes and distributes 5000 books.
It’s extraordinary. Lord Ram hears about what Hanuman has done. He becomes so delighted.
The Sri Vaishnava commentators, they describe that Ram is thinking, what can I do to Hanuman? He has done such service. What? He says, I am a pauper right now. I have been exiled.
I have nothing with me. There is nothing I can give except I can express my gratitude with an embrace. And then he pulls Hanuman into that embrace.
You may have seen that iconic image in our Bhagavatam art that is there. Hanuman is being embraced by Ram. And when the Lord offers his embrace, at that time, what is Hanuman thinking? Hanuman is thinking that this form of the Lord is actually the shelter of the goddess of fortune.
This is the greatest treasure in the entire existence. There is nothing of as much value as the form of the Lord. And he feels completely satisfied, ultimately enriched by that embrace of the Lord.
So, that embrace is, in one sense, the ultimate reward for Hanuman, for all the services that he has done. And then we talk about the Lord embracing the devotee. That means, basically, the Lord is pleased, extremely pleased.
So, while the Ramayana goes through various deliberations about what is the right thing to do, its conclusion in one sense is that the right thing to do is that which will please the Lord. Samsiddhir Haritoshanam. And Hanuman demonstrates that pleasing of the Lord.
So, Dharma can sometimes be very complex. Oh, should I do this or should I do that? Should I act in this way or that way? But the Gita also concludes in Paradharma. Paradharma is that which pleases Krishna.
Sarva Dharmaan Parityajya Maam Ekam Sharanam Vraja. So, we may say that how do I know what will please Krishna? That is why we have the process of Bhakti. In this process of Bhakti, we get guidance from our Guru, we get guidance from our various Shiksha Gurus.
We ourselves practise Sadhana. But overall, if our intention is Krishna, I want to do that which will please you, then the Lord becomes pleased. So, Hanuman demonstrates that desire to please the Lord.
And because he has that desire, Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita, that I will give you the intelligence by which you can come to me. So, at various points in life, when we are lost knowing not what am I meant to do, at that time, if we just remember the Lord and try to have that service attitude, the Lord will remove obstacles. This is illustrated especially in the search for Sita that Hanuman does.
As Hanuman has gone to Lanka, it’s been a stupendous mission. He has single-handedly leapt across, overcome many obstacles, then sneaked into Lanka, managed to remain undetected, and searched through all the palaces. And he can’t find Sita anywhere.
And he’s sinking into the depths of despair. See, generally, the more effort we put in doing something, the more invested we become in it. And then, if we think there’s no result coming over here, it can become very depressing.
Okay, if we try something and it doesn’t work, we just go for a programme in the neighbourhood, and nobody comes for the programme, that’s okay. But if you travel from one corner of the world to another corner of the world to try to share Krishna Bhakti, we put in a lot of effort and then no result comes. It can be very disheartening.
So, Hanuman is getting disheartened. He searched everywhere. He’s wondering, what has happened? Has Ravana devoured Sita? Has Sita ended her life in hopelessness, that she’s not going to be rescued? What am I going to do? He has searched in the darkness of the night, and still it’s dark.
There was a moon before, but the moon is clouded now. And there is darkness all around. And the darkness outside reflects the darkness in his heart, where he just doesn’t know what to do, and he starts thinking.
It’s a very human-like depiction of the thought process of Hanuman. He starts thinking, if I can’t find Sita, what is going to happen? How can I go back and face Lord Ram and tell him I couldn’t find Sita? If I tell that to Lord Ram, he will not be able to live. He will end his life.
If he ends his life, then Sugriv won’t be able to live. If Sugriv ends his life, then the entire Kishkindha, the entire monkey kingdom, will not be able to survive. If Lord Ram ends his life, then Bharat in Ayodhya will not be able to survive.
If Bharat doesn’t survive, then the entire Ayodhya will not be able to survive, because of separation from Ram and Bharat. It is in this way, he says, my failure to find Sita will lead to two entire kingdoms being destroyed. He says, I cannot let that happen.
He says, I will rather die trying to find Sita, then go back. And when in the depth of that darkness, that resolve comes, that I am going to keep trying, whether I succeed or fail. He just holds on to that determination.
And at that time, suddenly, the clouds part and the moon comes. And the moon, although it’s setting still, its rays are bright. And in the last setting rays of the moon, he sees there is a garden nearby.
He says, hey, I have searched all the palaces, but I haven’t searched any gardens. And it is in that garden that he finds Sita. So, we see eventually Prabhupada also came to America.
Prabhupada actually came on a two-month visa. And he initially was trying and nothing seemed to be working. And Prabhupada told it many times when he would think, maybe I should just go back.
And Prabhupada waited and tried and waited and tried. And in one sense, the moment of the darkest distress for him was when he was attacked by his roommate, this David Allen, who was supposed to become his disciple and suddenly in a drug-induced mania, he attacked Prabhupada. Prabhupada said, just leave.
He was on the streets as homeless as all the hippies lying on the ground, as homeless as the birds on the roofs of the homes, the crowds there. Prabhupada at that time could easily have gone back. But Prabhupada said, let me try.
I want to do something. And then Prabhupada said, there are some students coming to his place. So Prabhupada called one of the students, Prabhupada called Mukunda, Michael Grandovich and Mukunda Maharaj.
And then Prabhupada relocated to another place. And at that place, slowly more people, serious people started coming. So that particular thing, that Tadgati Vigna, there will be obstacles in the path of everyone in life.
Tadgati Vigna, Dvamsakarama. If we just maintain our remembrance of the Lord, my dear Lord, I want to serve you. Prabhupada would say, the best prayer that we can offer to the Lord is, my dear Lord, how can I serve you? It is not that, I don’t want to serve you.
I want to serve you, but I don’t know how. How can I serve you? So if we have that mood, this is Hanuman who is empowered. We will also be empowered.
And that brings me to the last part. So the Bhakti mood is that, no matter how big the obstacles are there in this world, the Lord is bigger. The Lord can remove obstacles.
Just as he did for Hanuman, just as he did for Shila Prabhupada. The last part is from the Gaudiya Vaishna perspective. I’ll just speak one point over here.
See the Gaudiya Vaishna, while Gaudiya Vaishna is a vast philosophy, but the key principle is that, presence in absence. That is the essence of the Gaudiya Vaishna. That the Lord, when he is absent, that is when his presence becomes more and more manifest in the heart.
So when the Gopis are separated from Krishna, because Krishna has gone away from them, at that time, Krishna actually enters deeper and deeper into their hearts. So that same mood is there in the Valmiki Ramayana, in the Sundarkand. What is so beautiful about the Sundarkand? Why is it so attractive? From a dramatic point of view, it’s adventurous, what a single Hanuman does.
But from a devotional perspective, it is the time when Hanuman meets Sita. And Hanuman starts speaking the glories of Ram. Now Sita is in the clutches of, clutches of the demons.
And once, she has already fallen prey to the disguise of someone. Ravan came disguised as a sage. And therefore she is careful, she is suspicious to some extent.
And when here, this person, this strange creature is here, and says, I am a messenger of Ram. Sita is naturally suspicious. So what does she do? Hanuman starts singing the pastimes of Ram.
And as he keeps speaking, keeps speaking, he starts from generally known pastimes toward more and more intimate pastimes. And eventually when he speaks a pastime, that is known only, that is the interaction between her and Ram, that even Lakshman does not know. When Hanuman speaks that, that is the time when Sita is convinced, he is sent by Ram.
And then when both of them meet, and both of them talk, at that time, the greatest devotee of, the greatest devotee of Ram, and the greatest servant of Ram, the consort of Ram, and the servant of Ram, both of them meet. And that is the time, in the absence of Lord Ram, his presence is felt the most. So that love in separation, that presence in absence, is manifested, even in the Ramayana, to some extent.
And for us, as Gaudiya Vaishnavas, the Goswamis explain that, among the various avatars, Krishna is the greatest, because the love is manifested the most. But there are other Paravastha avatars, Narasimha and Rama. So one aspect, one reason why Ram is especially special, is because that intimate mood of love is there.
And, actually Prabhupada, he came to America, he left just before Janmashtami, he celebrated Janmashtami on the ship. And then he came to America, the first Gaur Purnima that he celebrated over here. He writes in his diary that, all my God brothers in Mayapur, Vrindavan, will be relishing the glories of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, but I am all alone over here.
Nobody knows even about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. But, he says, I am here because it is the mission of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the mission of my Guru Maharaj. So Prabhupada said, I have never felt, even for one moment, separated from my spiritual master.
Prabhupada explained that, presence in absence. That is experience, through the attitude of service. When we are eager to serve the Lord, then even if we are far away from the Lord, we experience His presence.
So, just as Hanuman, experienced the enriching presence, and then eventually was rewarded by the embrace of the Lord. So for us, that embrace may be far away. In our tradition also it is described, in the Brihad Bhagavata Amrita, when the Gopakumar, goes back to the spiritual world.
At that time, the Lord embraces him. In fact, it is described, the Lord becomes so ecstatic, and on seeing the Gopakumar, the Lord fades. So like Krishna, loses his Krishna consciousness.
That embrace, is waiting for all of us. The Lord, wants us to be united with Him. Till that time, it is our, aspiration to experience, presence in absence.
To cultivate, devotion in separation. And through so, to Lord Ram, we all can pray, that He blesses us, with that same devotion, that same strength, that He blessed, Hanuman with. So quickly summarise, I discussed, three main points today.
We discussed from a Vedic perspective, that, what is the concept of the Avatar? Avatar descends, to inspire, the human ascent. So it is not just, establish order here, Dharma here, but it inspire, Prema, Bhakti cultivating in love. That’s the broad Vedic understanding.
Within that, the Vaishnav understanding is, that, when we go up Bhakti, it is not just, for merging. It is not at all for merging in fact. It is for, serving eternally.
And in this service, the Lord, empowers the devotee. So that empowers devotee, that means, the devotee does wonderful things. That empowerment of the devotee, we saw in Hanuman’s mood of, he has his folded hands, conveys Shakti.
And then, so his folded hands conveys Bhakti. And the mace in his hand, conveys his Shakti, his strength. So we want to bring about, inner change in our hearts.
And in the mood of service, we also want to bring about, outer change. And then I discussed, from the Gaudiya Vaishnav perspective. So, that, its presence in absence, love in separation.
That is the essential mood. So, we discussed how Hanuman, and Hanuman and Sita meet. That, is like the devotional culmination.
The climax. Highest, richest presence of the Lord is there. Now, eventually, there will be the embrace that comes.
The eternal embrace of the Lord will be there. But till we get to that embrace, the service in separation, is what we all, need to cultivate. So, if we will all face many obstacles in our lives, but if we maintain the remembrance of the Lord, the Lord will guide us, through all those obstacles, to attain him ultimately.
So, let’s recite, once more this verse, and we’ll conclude. Together. Together.
Do we have time for questions? Yes. We have a mic, or you can speak? Thank you very much, Peru. Wonderful presentation.
This last part about presence in absence, and, so wonderful. I still have to, work out how to understand this better. So, it appears that, here in the material world, we go through all this, and, we highlight, the separation of Krishna.
Then we see that, even, you know, when Lord Ramachandra leaves, Hanuman still stays here. Stays in one of the, in one of the, how do you call, realms in the material world, in service. Then, we also hear the other part, where you mentioned Gopakumara was like, going, and finally he meets Krishna, in big embrace.
So, it may appear sometimes, this is my, try to figure out, that, when Gopakumara is embraced by Krishna, is like, the culmination of all that struggle. And it appears that it’s ending. So now, in the material world, there is a lot of struggle, but you feel the presence of the Lord more.
So my question is, isn’t it, like in the spiritual world, it appears that, well, you’re already there, there’s no more struggle, Krishna is there. So it appears that actually, being in the material world, through all this, is more higher than, than there. Good question.
Thank you. So I was going to speak that point, but, see, there is separation from the Lord. There is, first we could say this is the material world, and then we have the spiritual world.
In the spiritual world, sorry, in the material world, the separation is because of our desires. It is our, our desires that separate us from the Lord. But in the spiritual world, the separation is because of Krishna’s desires.
So, Krishna, in general, what he does is, he creates arrangements, by which there is some, some obstacle in the union between the devotee and the Lord. So when it is, because of our desires, we need to purify ourselves. And, when we are talking about love and separation, we are, our presence and absence, it is, we have, we have gone away from Krishna, and we need to go closer towards Krishna.
I was once giving a class in India, and I was telling, the Brajwasis don’t accept that Krishna is God. And they don’t consider Krishna to be God. And one person in the audience raised his hand, he says, I also don’t consider Krishna to be God.
So I said, with all due respect, generally anybody says, with all due respect, that means what is going to be spoken is not going to be very respectful afterwards. I said, with all due respect, the Brajwasis, when they don’t consider Krishna to be God, that is because of their transcendence. If we don’t consider Krishna to be God, that is because of our ignorance, not transcendence.
So, here, by our desires, when we are separated from the Lord, then we try to cultivate, recognise that Krishna is present as the Paramatma in our hearts, even when he is not there, Krishna is present as the holy name. So we try to cultivate presence in his absence. And from here, say we could say in the spiritual world, there is union.
We will move from the separation towards union by rectifying our desires. From the desire to enjoy separately from Krishna, to the desire to serve Krishna. But now, within the spiritual world, there can be a dynamism.
That is, there is union, and then there is separation. So Krishna does not delight simply in displaying his Godhood. Krishna is not, I am God, and you bow down to me eternally.
Krishna wants dynamic love. And going back to the movie example, generally, if for any movie to be interesting, there has to be some conflict, there has to be some opposition. If say the hero and heroine meet each other, and they just attract each other, and they are happily ever after.
Then there is not much interest. If there is no tension, there is no attention. There has to be some tension.
So now in the spiritual world, there is no tension, there is no opposition. Krishna is God, and everybody loves Krishna. But Krishna creates that opposition.
So Krishna has some devotees play roles that are apparently opposed to him. So some of the family members or relatives of Radharani, they apparently act as inimical. So that’s why the union between Radharani and Krishna doesn’t happen so frequently.
So in that sense, is it that here it’s better? No, it’s not better over here. Because here, we all have worldly desires, and those desires are not purified. Sometimes we may experience presence in absence.
But sometimes we will only experience absence, and no presence at all. So I’ll conclude with one example for this, that love and separation, or separation does to love, what wind does to fire. Now if there is a forest fire, the worst nightmare of fire fighters is if a wind comes.
So like that, when there is a forest fire like love for Krishna, separation increases that love. But our love, so the Gopis love, the devotees love, the spiritual world is like a forest fire. But our love is not like a forest fire, it is like a candle fire.
So when there is separation, that’s like a wind. And the wind when it comes to a candle, it will just extinguish the candle. So that’s why, yes, we need to stay in association, we need to consciously cultivate the connection with Krishna.
Okay? Thank you. Hare Krishna. We’ll stop now, any other questions? Do you have any comments? So basically in spiritual world, the Gopis are always put in that situation of separation.
So you’re saying Krishna arranges that situation? Yes. So then, okay, so it builds up into a crescendo, where actually they see him. Yes.
Now, is that ecstasy increased at that particular junction? I mean, is there some elevated experience? I’m just asking a question, because it just makes me think like that. It’s a good question. Yeah, definitely.
See, when there is love for someone, and we meet that person, naturally there is joy. So definitely the Gopis are ecstatic when they meet Krishna. But when we say love and separation is highest, what it means, actually I think in the Bhakti Sutras it is described, that the test of true love, it comes in the Mahabharata, similar words, that the test of true love is when there is every reason to give up the object of love, and one doesn’t give up that object.
You know, two people are in a relationship, both of them quarrel with each other, and they say, just forget it, you quit the relationship. But when there is reason to give up the person we love, and we don’t give up, that is the real love. So what happens is, when you say love and separation, what is so glorious about it is that, a devotee loves Krishna, a devotee wants to be with Krishna, but Krishna goes away from that devotee.
Like the Gopis, that’s what they’re saying in the Gopi Gita, that Krishna, you called us, and we left our family. पति सुतन्वया ब्रात्रबान्धवान् अति विलांग्यते अन्त्यच्युतागता We gave up all our family, and at those times, for a woman to leave her family, to go into the forest, that’s like committing social suicide. She’ll be disgraced completely.
So the Gopis give everything up to come to Krishna, and what does Krishna do? कितवयोशितस् कस्त्यजेनिशि That, how can you give us up at night? You know, if a boy and a girl are trying to develop a relationship, and the boy says, let us run away together, we’ll meet at this particular place. And the girl does everything and comes over there and the boy doesn’t turn up over there. Then, the girl will say, I’ll have nothing to do with you afterwards.
Isn’t it? So, the Gopis give up everything for Krishna, and Krishna apparently gives them up and goes away. But the Gopis don’t become bitter. The Gopis never abandon Krishna.
And that is the greatness of their love. So, we say love and separation is the highest. So, definitely, in terms of experience of happiness, when the Gopis are united with Krishna, the happiness is much greater for them in terms of what they experience.
But when they are separated from Krishna, their love is shown that much. Just like, you know, when two people, they love each other, they meet each other, they run together, they are very happy, they are smiling, they embrace each other, that shows their love. But two people are separated for a long, long time, and still one person is still remembering the other person, trying to care for the other person, serving that other person.
That also shows love in a different way. So, love and separation, in a broader sense, is considered higher because it is a greater test of love. But in terms of experience of happiness, it is the union that is especially joyful.
So, in fact, the separation is, in one sense, painful. The Gopis are in distress. So, it’s like, when there is, at one level, you could say, remembrance of the Lord.
That is itself spiritual happiness. It’s like nectar. But within remembrance of the Lord, there can be remembrance in union, and there can be remembrance in separation.
So, now, remembrance in union is like sweet nectar. Remembrance in separation is like bitter nectar. How can nectar be bitter? It is nectar.
It is life-giving. Chaitanya Charitamrta gives the example of hot sugarcane juice. It is sugarcane juice.
It’s delicious. One can’t stop drinking. But it’s hot.
You can’t bear it. So, there is that complex experience of agony and ecstasy. So, the Gopis, when they are separated from Krishna, the remembrance of Krishna becomes more and more intense.
And because the remembrance of Krishna is intense, so you could say there is ecstasy. But because there is separation, there is agony. So, it is like agony is there, but the foundation is because there is remembrance of Krishna, there is ecstasy.
So, on the other hand, when there is forgetfulness of Krishna, that happens in this material world, within that there can be happiness. There are times when materially we enjoy. There are times when there is unhappiness.
But it’s like the forgetfulness of Krishna itself is like poison. So, you could say happiness in this material world is like sweet poison. Distress in the material world is like bitter poison.
So, rather than focussing on the taste, is it sweet or better, we focus on the overall effect. So, remembrance of Krishna in that sense is always uplifting, is nectarian in that sense. So, nectar, sorry to conclude, nectar has two connotations, you know.
One is its taste and its effect. Nectar is that which grants immortality, that which brings life. But nectar is also which tastes good.
So, remembrance of Krishna is nectar in this sense of effect. In terms of taste, remembrance of Krishna may not always bring, may not be joyful at the manifest level. Like Prabhupada told Tamas Krishna Maharaj, your anxiety for serving Krishna will take you to Krishna.
When the Juhu temple problems were coming up. So, anxiety is not a very relishable emotion. But that anxiety is deepening the connection with Krishna.
How about anticipation? Oh yes, yeah. So, you can say anxiety in one sense is a form of anticipation only. We are so eager.
So, for us love and separation is filled with that anticipation of that union. Yes. Thank you.
That’s a beautiful word. So, Shri Ramachandra Bhagwan ki Jai. Ram Nami Mahamahotsav ki Jai.