Responsible Relationships 2 Make judgments but don’t be judgmental

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

Hare Krishna Thank you for coming today morning and we continue the discussion on responsible relationships How many of you were there yesterday evening Thank you So yesterday I spoke three main points Started by when somebody hurts us Rather than focusing on why are they hurting us we can ask How are they themselves hurt because of which they are hurting me. The topic was hurt people hurt people The second point was that when we try to understand people that doesn't mean we excuse them Because sometimes in the world they will be acting with excessive force disproportionate and we Can separate understanding and excusing so that we don't Block understanding the fear that okay I have to overlook everything that they are doing and lastly I discussed about how intelligence means that we are able to Respond we act we acknowledge our emotion, but we don't act according to our emotions at all We act according to how best we can serve Krishna. The spirituality we can strengthen our intelligence So the second session which I'll speak on today Is Acting according to our values That was the originally had done as a concession, but I'll take that in the third session in the evening today Because that is more broad and more relevant.

Today I'll speak a little more philosophically because it's the morning It's for all of you, the most serious devotees here. So I'll take a little more conceptual analysis in terms of Understanding this from the three modes perspective So the theme I'll take is third, what was the third session? That make judgments, but don't be judgmental That means make judgments Say for us To do any activity in life. We need to make judgments Say if we are driving a car and then we see another person is driving a car from the opposite side.

There is a small space Now, can I go through the space? That requires a judgment call Sometimes if the opposite person We see that the person is driving in a very shaky way. They don't have the car in control Maybe they are a little inexperienced or maybe they are intoxicated or whatever Then normally you might be able to drive the car through that space. But in that case, maybe let me wait Let the person pass on and then I'll leave So making judgments is simply a functional requirement In every walk of life say if we have to carry a lot of luggage and And when we come to the airport, say if I have to go back to India, then we may decide Okay, can I carry this luggage myself or do I need a trolley? Or do I need a porter? What is the word for porter here? Porter itself? so It's in America, it is porter.

In India, it is useful So worlds are different in different places. I was in America and somebody had asked me how I was introduced to Krishna Consciousness So I started speaking and I said that so after I passed out from my college In America, passed out means to fall unconscious Passed out So I graduated from my college. So words can have different meanings in different contexts Anyway, so in this Do I need a porter? So that is the quality of judgment Suppose if we have some back pain and we try to lift too much of a weight, then we will hurt ourselves So making judgments is a functional necessity But being judgmental Means that we fix labels on people We fix labels on people What kind of labels? This person is lazy This person is short-tempered.

This person is formidable. This person is arrogant This person is ignorant So now this kind of labels when we fix on people We will feel that is also a functional requirement That's not exactly true At one level we have to take judgments also say if we are talking with somebody who is Say if we are South Indians and then we are talking with somebody who is not Indian We cannot talk in Tamil or Telugu or Kannada. We have to make a judgment.

This person is from this part of the world Let me talk in Hindi or English So to some extent when we meet people we have to classify them If this person is American, so I'll have to speak in English So that kind of classification is a functional necessity But when we are talking about labeling over here it happens when we reduce a person to a particular behavior and When we reduce people to their particular behaviors Then we can't develop a personal relationship with them Our relationship becomes reduced to their that particular personality trait Now that personality trait may also be a reality But that person is much bigger than their personality trait When we form judgments on people The result is that often they themselves Become reduced in their own conceptions. Everybody thinks of me to be like this And they also can't break free from that box into which we have put them So why are we talking about this in terms of responsible relationships? Yesterday I talked about hurt people hurt people so when we When we find that somebody has hurt us in some way This person has forgotten some things, a person has become angry with us A person has become lazy and not uncertain things. So we based on that The hurtful experiences that we have had we form some labels for them.

This person is like this And then When those labels come up the result is that we ourselves Can't see that person anything separate from the label so in America Had in several places I spoke to Mental health care centers at one time and there especially a big problem is addiction Drug addiction. Is it a problem here also? It's here Everywhere almost. It's a huge problem.

So now there have been different approaches tried out for dealing with addiction And one of the approaches that has worked best is in Portugal so Portugal had a huge, almost 50 to 60 percent of the population was drug addicts in 2000 and then They found that although they were trying in various ways the drug addiction was increasing So they completely changed the approach and they said rather than focusing on Criminalizing addicts, let us focus on integrating addicts into society That means all the much of the money that they were spending in trying to punish people who are drug addicts They started using that to rehabilitate drug addicts give them education help them to earn a living and Eventually, they said that normally no employer would want to employ anyone somebody who is a drug addict Because they be contaminated, they behave irresponsibly, but the government said that if you employ this person Then we will pay half the salary The government tried to help in integrating people by giving them a life worth living And the result was today in the western world Portugal has the world's least addiction rate So now experts say that the opposite of addiction is not sobriety They say the opposite of addiction is connection If a person is connected with various aspects of their life They have friends. They have family. They have a job.

They have something by which they are making many meaningful contributions in their life Then they outgrew the addiction So the conventional approach was this person is alcoholic, this person is a drug addict And in fact the previous approach was that a person would be labeled and when they would be labeled like that Anywhere they go the first identity would be this person is a drug addict And that would perpetuate the addiction So of course no approach will work all the times and Ultimately we understand this connection is ultimately the connection with Krishna. I'll come to that later But the point I was making over here is that if we become judgmental and fix labels on people then people continue to behave like that But when we start seeing people as bigger than their labels So what the government did over there was let them live a normal life and help them to live a normal life Help them to outgrow that label and the result was That they were able to integrate themselves into society much better So we need to make judgments, but we shouldn't be judgmental in terms of affixing labels on people and reducing people to those labels Any questions or comments at this point? How do you feel internally? Is there depression? Is the drug addict very strong in us? Or an alcoholic or any other bad habit? Out of mind or should we read it instead of looking at the other person? How do we treat our mind? Good question So in fact this question is what I am going to talk in the next part So if we in principle understand that I don't want to reduce a person to a particular label Then how do we go about doing this? So this is where the three modes of material nature come into picture In the Bhagavad Gita from 18th chapter, text 20, 21, 22 Krishna talks about perception in the three modes or knowledge in the three modes So how do we look at things? And he says let's start from Tamoguna, then we move to Rajoguna and then to Sattoguna So in 18.22 he talks about perception or knowledge Knowledge here refers to how we look at the world, how we take in information from the world 18.22 he says 18.22 He says 18.22 When we take one thing and make it into everything Krishnavad is everything, ekasmin is one thing When we take one thing and make it into everything 18.22 Karyesaktam ahaitukam Such people get attached to one thing only And ahaitukam, they don't consider the cause-effect connection Ahaitukam here is just a fragmented vision Obsessed with one thing Atattvarthavad alpamcha Atattvarthavad That means we don't understand the complete reality What is the reality? We don't understand it What do we understand? Alpamcha, a meagre knowledge is there Very small aspect of reality we know And we think that is all that there is Tat tamasam udavrtam That is, Krishna says, knowledge in the mode of ignorance So essentially when we take one thing to be everything That is knowledge in the mode of ignorance And in Tamoguna We catch This can happen, this can apply to various things With respect to relationships We catch one aspect of a person And we equate the person with that alone Now this can happen in various ways Say for example, in the western world there was racism Where a person was reduced to just the color of their skin In India there was casteism This person was reduced to just their birth Now yes, people's color of skin is one part of their identity People's birth is one part of their identity But to make, to reduce people to that That is Tamoguna So in Tamoguna, basically Asat, asat, we are really attached Now of course, the addict's behavior is also in Tamoguna The addict's behavior is what? They are attached to one substance And for that they are ready to do anything and everything They forget their responsibilities, their relationships Their roles in society They forget financial stability, they forget everything And just get mad in trying to get the object of addiction So they are of course looking at one thing and making it into everything But we may also succumb to the same error We look at one thing and make it into everything So in general, when we are practicing Bhakti That is when we raise our consciousness upwards From Tamas to Rajas to Sattva And then to Shuddha Sattva And this happens if we practice Bhakti diligently However, sometimes when we practice Bhakti Our Bhakti can also increase our narrow-mindedness Bhakti is not narrow-mindedness It is our practice of Bhakti, the way we conceive and practice Bhakti The way we conceive and practice our particular religious activities That may increase our narrow-mindedness I'll talk about this a little later But let's look at the other two modes Now Krishna says about the Rajoguna Knowledge or perception in Rajas He says pruthak tvel tu yaj jnanam nana bhavan pruthak vidhan viddhi sarveshu teshu taj jnanam viddhi rajasam pruthak tvel tu yaj jnanam When people see that a person's body is everything Separate, this is one species, this is another species, there is another species nana bhavan pruthak vidhan So the inner nature, inner essence and outer body People equate them viddhi sarveshu teshu taj jnanam viddhi rajasam That is knowledge in the mode of passion So one thing is Many people think that animals don't have any souls It is only human beings who have souls In the Abrahamic religions, this is the idea And that comes because They have a peculiar understanding that Only humans Because only humans are capable of understanding God Therefore the soul exists only in human beings And then what is the purpose of all other living beings? They are just meant for our gratification So kill them, eat them So the animal world When we don't see them at all as persons In their own right That is knowledge in the mode of passion And it is very ironic that In the same western civilization also People at one level, they love their dogs And in fact there are If somebody, there are laws Which say that if you have a pet dog You have to have this long leash to the dog If the leash is not long enough Then that is cruelty to the dog And people will take such a dog And then They will go to a Big Mac And eat animal food over there So it's just They are not able to connect At the same animal, similar animal which I am Lavishing my love on I am eating As an animal has been killed to eat So there, these people are reduced to their bodies And this also applies to A very sexualized vision of people Where people just reduce people again to their bodies Their physical gender, physical sexuality And we don't see them as human beings In Satyaguna Krishna says Krishna says here we see that all different people are there There are many different living beings But they have something in common What is that? They have an indestructible spiritual essence Although they are all separate But they are all people like me They are all souls like me When we see the essential spirituality in everyone That is what is indicated That is what is perception in goodness So Satyaguna Jnana means that We can see everybody as spiritual beings So how does all this apply to us When we practice spiritual life And we are interacting with each other The soul is always pure The soul will be covered and contaminated By the conditions By the kind of body and mind people have But That soul's conditioning is temporary Beyond the temporary conditioning is the pure soul So when some people are more religious than spiritual When people are more religious than spiritual Then they see the body more than the soul They see the external more than the internal And when people are religious but not spiritual Then they can often become causes of conflict among each other In the western world there is a large group of people Who call themselves as SBNR SBNR is? Does anyone know? Spiritual but not religious I am spiritual but not religious I don't want to belong to any sect Their idea of religion is They are dogmatic, sectarian, narrow minded, ritualistic, fanatical I don't want to be a part of that I want to be spiritual Spiritual means open minded Wanting to explore, understand higher truths Be compassionate, be sensitive So spiritual is considered good Now when can we be spiritual? When we can see the commonality When we can see the equality When we can see the universality But when we see the separateness I am like this, this person is like this Then when we focus on the difference That is what leads to conflicts And so when we are practicing bhakti We also sometimes get greater criteria for classification Say for example, we are Vaishnavas That person is a Shaivite, that person is a Shakta We are Vaishnavas, we are Gaudiya Vaishnavas We can have, we are not just Gaudiya Vaishnavas We are actually Gaudiya Vaishnavas or Prabhupada Navas So this all becomes an identity Now when such an identity comes up This identity may be useful for functional purposes But if that is the label we fix on ourselves Then sometimes our so called spiritual identity Can become a cause of material conflicts The identity is spiritual But we are seeing it in a materialistic way What do I mean by materialistic way? Once a person was frustrated And he went on top of a bridge And he stood, he was about to jump And commit suicide And another person was walking by Hey, don't commit suicide, don't commit suicide He says, why? Why should I not commit suicide? No one loves me, what happened? No one loves me, no one cares for me He says, but Jesus loves you How do you know that? He says, I am a Christian Okay, I am also a Christian Oh really? Okay, Jesus loves you Which Christian am I? He says, I am a protestor Oh, I am also a protestor Very good, he says Okay, which protestant are you? He says, I am a Baptist Oh, I am also a Baptist Oh, excellent, which Baptist are you? He says, I am a Southern Baptist Oh, I am also a Southern Baptist Which Southern Baptist are you? He says, I am a Reformed Southern Baptist Oh, you pagan, jump down and commit suicide So, there is so much common There is Reformed Southern Baptist and there is Southern Baptist So, there is so many common things But one difference And then jump down, commit suicide You don't deserve to live So sometimes, we may take certain things Which differentiate us from people And we may over-emphasize them When that happens Then we are actually having more religious vision Here the word religion is used in an external sense Ritualistic or external vision Then a spiritual vision We talk about Smartha Brahmins The word Smartha actually originally did not have any connotation Smartha simply means from Smriti Those who follow Smriti are called Smartha But many of those people became very ritualistic Focusing only on externals You are a low caste, stay low caste So, to be smart is not smart To be smart, to just focus on external vision Externals of people, that is not very smart So, we need to look at what unites us And there is so much that brings us together At a spiritual level, we understand No matter how a person may be That person is a soul, that person is a part of Krishna And yes, that person has a problem right now And we have to acknowledge Say somebody has been driven drunk And then we cannot give them the responsibility of that So, a functional perspective Recognizing that certain people may have certain issues That is necessary But we don't have to reduce people to that So, that happens when we can see spiritually And understand that everyone is a soul The soul may be conditioned But they are conditioned in their way And I am conditioned in mine Their conditioning may be Tamasic My conditioning may be Rajasic or Satvic But still it is conditioning So, by learning to see the essential spirituality of everyone Actually, we can start Start becoming Start seeing people as separate from their neighbors There are certain characteristics people have But they may have certain deficiencies, some limitations But beyond it all They are individuals When I do corporate seminars or I do retreats I do an experiment Which maybe you can do later at your home This is called as one minute eye to eye contact Just without talking Select a friend And just look at them for one minute continuously It may seem simple, it is not easy When you just look for one minute continuously at someone Just keep looking, keep looking Actually, when we unrelentingly look at someone for one minute They look at us What happens by that? Just by looking in the eyes of someone consistently We start seeing that actually they are conscious beings If you don't have philosophical understanding You will not realize that they are souls But this is a conscious person Who has emotions, who has personality, who has nature This is a conscious being We often treat people as tools for getting things done I have to do this and this person can't do this You do this, this person can do this So, we have often a utilitarian vision of people And this kind of exercise If you do it Without blinking, without looking away Just continuously look And not in a frivolous way And generally when we do this exercise We separate the genders Otherwise something else comes up So, of course if somebody is married then that's fine But otherwise, just two people Often people, after that we have some realizations What do you feel? And we say I never thought of this person in this way This person also has emotions, this person also has feelings This person also has desires This person is a conscious being Bad experiences can be quite deep So, basically by getting a more spiritual vision We can acknowledge that people have certain limitations Certain problems But we can see that as separate from their limitations It is a part of them And I have to acknowledge that If somebody is not a very good singer Then we can't necessarily give them the responsibility of leading people But that doesn't mean that they are deficient in any way Say somebody is short tempered Then we have to be careful when we deal with them When we talk with them That they should not be provoked unnecessarily So, there are some operational precautions That do need to be taken But by taking those precautions We don't have to reduce people to their limitations So, any questions on this point? So, the second point I discussed That by trying to cultivate vision in sattva We can separate people from their limitations of their behavior See their spirituality as more defining of them Than their particular conditioning or limitation During our spiritual growth from shraddha to prema When do we rise to perception in sattva Rather than in sattvanas I haven't seen any correlation Technically speaking with respect to this But broadly anartha nivrutti Is where most of the conditionings go down Therefore, if somebody has come to the level of nishtha or ruchi Then they should be able to see things much more spiritually Now, it's important that We don't again use this to become judgmental about others That means you are seeing like this That means you are not a very spiritually advanced person That can also become like that So, sometimes a person is very spiritually advanced also But some anartha might stay for a long time in a person So, some people may by their childhood They are bringing their past life They may be very short tempered And now they may be spiritually advanced in other ways But they may be very sacrificing Very dedicated to the service of Krishna And willing to go way out of their way To do things for Krishna Then still they might have a short temper So, just because they have a short temper Does not mean their spiritual advancement is under So, in particular people Certain conditionings may stay for a long time When we say anartha nivrutti That doesn't mean all the anarthas go away That anartha nivrutti leads to nishtha And that can be correlated with the Bhagavatam words nashta prayesho badreshu nityam bhagavata sevaya bhagvati ruttama shloke bhaktir bhagvati naishtiki So, that naishtiki is made with nishtha So, steady, steady firm practice of bhakti But the pertinent point here is nashto prayesho badreshu prayesho means most It is not all So, most abhadras Most conditionings go away But some conditionings may still remain So, rather than So, for our own spiritual advancement We can say that Yes, as I grow spiritually I should be able to give up this condition But you don't necessarily have to Label people based on Their exhibiting certain anarthas Thank you Yes, he had a question When we have a perception That we have about a person Because, you know, you You have certain perceptions And then will that become judgmental? Because there are certain things Which you said not Like based on scheme, not caste Or things like that That's different But when we have When you know the nature of a person And then you actually act Based on the perception We have about that person Will that act be judgmental? Okay, good question So, if We know that a particular person Has a particular conditioning If we know that a particular person Is a particular way Then we behave with them accordingly Is that being judgmental? Judgmental is more an attitude Than an action That means that Sometimes By acknowledging a particular person's limitation We may be doing that In the mode of service Or we may be doing it In the mode of condemnation The same action Can be done in very different ways So, for example If say Somebody can't do a particular service well Somebody is trying to play Some kartal or mridangam And they are making a mess of it And then we can just go to them And pull the mridangam kartal And the way we do it Can make them feel very bad Or At that time If there is nobody to sing And nobody is there to play And they are trying to play And then we just offer Can I play? And they also know that But they may give it up Without making them feel bad In communication When I started When I started learning public speaking I saw that When you give a class Sometimes you may speak some concepts Which are very difficult So There is a way In which you can Ask feedback A speaker should never ask the people Do you understand? We say do you understand? Basically what are we doing? We are basically making people feel You are dumb Why are you so dumb? You don't understand So There is That means there is There is a speaker There is I am here The audience is here And there is the concept being communicated So As soon as we put the onus on the other person You can't understand Do you understand? Then that makes people feel defensive And that makes people feel insecure or hurt Uncomfortable If not hurt So the same thing could be said objectively Is this clear? So what is happening? I am focusing not on the person But on the subject Or the same thing If I want to take more responsibility I can say Am I making myself clear? So What is happening over here? I am taking the responsibility If I am a speaker It is my responsibility to make sure that I make things clear So similarly When a particular person has a particular limitation Then At that time We may We can And sometimes we should Take that into acknowledgement Take that into consideration When we are interacting with them But While doing that It's simple Say somebody can't speak English very nicely And then We start speaking in Hindi Now sometimes it can be done in a very Very discreet, seamless way Where the conversation goes on Or sometimes Some people can make the other person feel You don't know English? Such people say Okay fine, I will speak in Hindi Make the person feel inferior almost So basically That is bad So when we do something with an attitude of service Then We can acknowledge the limitation of the person But we don't make the person feel bad because of that So Behaving with people In a way that Takes into consideration Their particular limitations That is That is sensitive So we are being sensitive But while being sensitive to them To their particular limitation We also have to be sensitive to How they would feel about it And do it in a more More discreet way So that requires some thought about it But over a period of time We can learn how to do that Does that answer your question? Thank you Okay, this is a big question Can we keep it at the end? We will come to that There is one more point I want to take And then We will have a couple of questions So The first point I made was that Make judgments But don't be judgmental Because of fixing labels on people Second point I made is That Separate people From their conditionings By seeing that they are souls Who are just like us Third point is That Whenever We are dealing with people Before We put them in their place Put ourselves in their place Instead of putting people in their place Put ourselves in their place That means That Very often When we When somebody hurts us Our focus goes on How much pain I am in How could this person Have caused this much pain to me So Earlier I started The first session I said Look at what Look at how they are hurting But here we are going deeper And see If I put myself in their place Then How would this seem In fact in conflict resolution If two people are having an argument One principle in mediation is That Just going on and on and on So when that happens One thing is That You just tell A and B are having a conflict Tell A That Explain Can you explain How this Looks from B's perspective That just forces people to think If you have to not only Not only think about it But speak it And speak it in the presence of B Ok I feel you did like this You did like this You did like this From B's perspective We start saying that I have seen this We do this That Actually Both of them told B Don't Don't criticise the other person Don't correct the other person So when A starts speaking From B's perspective And also When We did not Give you this service You felt hurt You felt angry because of this No no I didn't feel angry I felt lonely I felt left out Oh Ok Then what happens As people Start speaking from The other person's perspective They start also Their focus also changes What happens Their focus changes means That rather than They trying to Prove that they are right And you are wrong Whenever argument is happening The whole idea Focus is what That you are a bad guy And I am a good guy Or even if Both of us are bad guys You are more bad than me So when that happens Then Both of them just keep They are fighting But the issue is not being addressed The human heart Needs understanding As much as The human body Needs air When we Don't feel understood We feel choked Ok I am being like this So when we don't feel understood Then we feel choked And just like Say if a person Is feeling that I don't have oxygen Then They will do anything and everything Somehow I have to get oxygen So They may hit at somebody else They may try to catch somebody else Pull Do whatever it takes to get oxygen So when people Don't feel understood Then They start Becoming like a person Without oxygen Start frantically doing anything and everything To gain some understanding And unfortunately The more their Attempts become frantic The less people understand them So somebody is Considered to be angry Somebody is considered short tempered And they are trying to explain Actually I am not short tempered But this is what happened And this is what made me angry But when they see people Not understanding Then they become more angry Just say you proved That you are short tempered So it becomes very unfortunate So then Say the two people Are having a conflict Explain How this seems From the other person's perspective Then When they do that The other person starts clarifying This is what I felt at this time This is what happened at this time I thought you were doing like this Then A lot of Understanding Starts emerging And in general People who are Actually Most people Are not bad people In fact Ultimately No one is a bad person Every soul Is a part of the machine But some people Their Conditioning Is so much That They may just Habitually Act wickedly So there is Weakness And there is wickedness There is weakness When the weakness When people Everybody Has anger within But when they keep Getting angry Keep speaking harshly Keep behaving Roughly Then that Becomes their Habitual weakness And then they might Become wicked So we could say If there is a mountain Or there is a hill At the top of the hill There is weakness And then People keep Acting similarly Again and again And again and again Then that becomes Wickedness Wickedness is Where The person Just needs to be Punished Then As Hindi we say Laato ke ghoot Baato se nahi maante So There are many Phrases like this There are many Kahawats Which you cannot Translate into English If you try to Translate this into English The hosts of Kicks don't Learn my words It doesn't make Any sense Basically Now Our tendency is Quite often We try once Twice Thrice And we don't Understand I think this person Needs to be punished As Laato ke ghoot Baato se nahi maante Yeh sahi hai Par humne baato se Manane ka prayaz Kitna kiya hai How much have we tried So when we Try sincerely Then There are some People with whom Like Duryodhan He after all the Efforts I explained Yesterday He was just not Ready to listen And he had to be Punished But most people In our Day to day Interactions Are not like that So it is When we Try to Understand The other person And When we Do that That What happens By that is That Once the Person feels Understood Then their Hostility goes Down significantly And then We can actually Deal with the Issue So sometimes There is an Issue And then There is the Person And Sometimes Based on the Dynamic of the Relationship A small issue Can become very big And based on the Dynamic of the Relationship A big issue Can also become Very small Say it's It's Said that Say suppose Somebody We We meet a Friend after a Long time And then We expect to be Hugged And at that Time Suddenly They Slap us That will Shock us Much more If Somebody Whom we Who we Know is The enemy Somebody Who know That this Person is When we Go in front Of them You know They may Hit us Physically Hit us Or verbally Hit us So quite Often In a Particular In every Relationship We have certain Expectations And when those Expectations are Frustrated Then Then after that Even small Issues become Very big So when That starts Happening Then acting In that Relationship Seems to be Like walking In a Minefield In a Minefield Take one Step And all ten act together, then it becomes a terrible conception for us. So we may try to counter, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, but allow people to speak, and what happens, they at least feel heard.

Once somebody feels heard, that itself decreases the emotional temperature. It doesn't solve the problem, but it decreases the emotional temperature. And so, it's not that, it may decide, okay, when I am going to speak, you don't interrupt.

When you are going to speak, I won't interrupt. You will decide, okay, five minutes, ten minutes, you want to make your case, make your case, I will hear you. And the second step, the second step I have already mentioned.

Third step is, with respect to try to gain understanding, is, try to really, or conceptually, put ourselves in their situation. Say, what I mean by this is, that from our perspective, it might not appear to be a big thing. But from their perspective, it might be a very big thing.

What does it mean? Say, a child is walking for the first time, a small baby is getting up and walking, and then while the child is walking, if the child slips and falls, and if at that time the mother says, can't you walk properly? No mother will ever say like that. If the mother says like that, the child will say, I'll never be able to walk. And the child will stop trying to walk.

So, we understand, now, if somebody who is an adult person is walking in a very haphazard way, we ask, are you drunk? Walk properly. Now, for that person, that statement is not going to affect them so much. If somebody is doing some service for the first time, somebody has given classes maybe 50 times, 100 times, and then we give them some feedback, okay, this point was spoken this way, this point is not appropriate for this audience, speak like this, like this.

Then, in general, nobody likes to be corrected. But, for a person who has that confidence, yes, I have given many classes, I can speak, and this person will give me some suggestion for improvement. I can take that, I'll process it, and I will do it.

I'll do it if it makes sense to me. But, somebody has given a class for the first time, and then we give them a lot of negative feedback. What will happen? What do you think will happen? Demotivated.

Demotivated. They will think, okay, next class, next lifetime. I am too conditioned, I cannot give classes.

So, there are times when people may commit mistakes. So, the same feedback to a seasoned speaker, and same feedback to a new speaker. That has a big, big difference.

So, that means, when we try to understand the other person, that means, literally, okay, this, if I have been, say, if we are senior, somebody is junior, and we give them some feedback. But then, if we think, if 10 years ago, somebody had spoken like this to me, how would I have reacted? That can make us a little more empathetic. So, where are they coming from? So, when we, in this way, we make judgments, but we do not become judgmental, then we find that the conflicts can be significantly decreased, and we can move towards more harmonious, more healthy relationships.

So, in some other case, then we can have more questions. I spoke today about how we can make judgments without being judgmental. The first point was, we have to, for functional purposes, classify people, but we do not have to reduce people to their labels.

And if we reduce them, then they become restricted to that, and our behavior as well as their behavior, neither leads to any improvement. As long as drug addicts were labeled, as addicts were labeled as addicts, they continue to be addicts. But when addicts were helped to integrate into society, we found that they are able to create a better life for themselves.

And sometimes our religious, our philosophy may increase our religiosity, by which we may affix religious labels on people, and that may also increase the differentiation. Then second point I talked about is that, when we are trying to analyze, when we are interacting with people, at that time, we see them first as souls. And then we acknowledge their limitation, but see their spirituality more than their conditioning.

But to see their conditioning more than their spirituality is material external vision. That is rajasik or tamasik. Tamasik means, we see them as souls first.

See the commonality and then see the difference afterwards. And last point I talked about is, we try to understand the other person. Put ourselves in the other person's place before we put them in their place.

For that, first is hear them uninterrupted, try to verbalize how the thing appears from their perspective, and then think how we would feel if this had happened to us when we were in their position, their understanding, their situation. That will help us to decrease the emotional temperature in the conflict and help to bring more cordiality and civility in resolving it. Thank you very much.

Any questions? Yes, sir. When you are being judgmental, you incite the ten offenses of the world every day, whereas in the night, you incite the faithless person about their loyalty to the holy name. How do we perceive this? Okay.

So when he says, if we consider that to instruct a faithless person is an offense, so when we are judging somebody as faithless, isn't that also being judgmental? In my understanding, that offense simply means speak to people according to their language. In a sense, if we take it in a very broad way or in a very literal way, we could say all preaching will be an offense. Because ultimately, all preaching is not in a preachy sense, but in an educational sense.

It is meant to give people knowledge by which they develop faith. So by default, we understand that people are not going to have faith. That's why they are coming, associating with you, and they are going to gain faith.

But the specific point is the glories of the holy name. So the idea is that everybody is at a particular level in their spiritual life. And we have to speak in a way that helps them rise from there.

So there was a conversation of Prabhupada where some devotees asked Prabhupada that in the Bhagavatam it is said that Maharaj Ugrasen had some huge number of bodyguards. Very large number. So the devotees told Prabhupada that when we meet scholars, you tell the scholars that Ugrasen had so many bodyguards.

They start laughing at us. I say, how could so many people have lived in Dwarka? Where were their homes? Where were their toilets? So Prabhupada could have answered, talking of Krishna, we will come and see your deity. Krishna can do anything.

But Prabhupada took a very practical approach. He said, of all the thousands of verses in the Bhagavatam, was that the only thing you found to speak to the scholars? We have limited time with people. And to speak that which is the most relevant and the most beneficial for them at that point.

And Prabhupada was asked by a scholar, what is the essence of your message? And Prabhupada quoted 1.9.10 in the Bhagavatam. धर्मस्यापवर्गस्यनार्थोऽर्थायवगल्भुति नार्थस्यधर्मिकांदस्यकामूलाभावेस्मुदा कामस्यनाइवियऽकीतिल्लाभुजीवेध्यान्ता जीवस्यत्वजिन्यासानार्थोयस्चिर्यवर्भुति Prabhupada quoted that, that life and dharma, they are not meant for material improvement. They are meant for spiritual improvement.

But the point is, Prabhupada was clear, this is what he wants to focus on. There are some religions which talk about, if you don't have faith in this particular guru or teacher, you will go to hell. There are some religions which are even more fanatical, they say, not only are we going to go to hell, we will help you get there faster.

But, Prabhupada, if you see his general classes, how often does Prabhupada talk about hell? And the description of hell? Practically never. Prabhupada's focus was education. So, we don't want to, we want to speak to people in a way that helps them rise from where they are.

So, we don't want to, we understand what is the level of understanding of this person, and then we speak philosophy on it, so that they rise one step up. Yes, please. Q. How do we relate judgmental to good action? Second one is, unless a person understands that he is doing something wrong, he may not be corrected.

How do we get there? So, how do we relate not being judgmental to varnaashram dharma? Traditionally, varnaashram dharma was based on understanding people's kuna and karma, and thereafter, being able to engage them appropriately. Now, 5000 years ago, also Maharaj Mishra is speaking to Nahusha, and he says that because there has been so much intermixing through marriage, so determining varna is very difficult. We have to look at behavior, we have to look at qualities, and only then we can determine varna.

So, the way it happened in the Indian caste system was that people are labeled according to their worth, and that is very damaging, very, very injurious for people's growth, for their connection to society, and for social harmony. Now, even today, if we want to establish varnaashram, I met several devotees, when I was in America, there were students who lived in gurukuls, and they left. I met one person, he is a typical Rishi, very good businessman, but somehow, when he was in the gurukul, his teacher thought that he is a Brahmin.

Of course, Brahmin is considered superior, everybody wants to be a Brahmin. So, he was like, oh, I am a Brahmin. And then he had to memorize verses, and chant mantras, and do puja, and he said, I was so frustrated in my gurukul, just left after that.

And it took a long time for him to even start practicing Krishna Consciousness nicely. Now, he is practicing, of course. So, the point is that it is very difficult to try to categorize people like this.

In principle, it is possible. In practice today, because people's own dispositions are also very mixed, and who are the spiritual authorities, they may not be so expert. So, the essence of Varanasi is that we work in harmony with our material nature to realize our spiritual nature.

This is the essence of Varanasi. We work in harmony with our material nature to realize our spiritual nature. So, that can be done in many different ways in today's world without necessarily having to categorize people into others.

The point of Varanasi is not categorization. The point of Varanasi is compatible engagement. So, if somebody is good at say, graphic design, and then we tell them, they come to the temple, and we engage them in making posters, making various attractive things in the temple, that is the application of Varanasi.

If somebody is good at decoration, and then we ask them to decorate the temple, decorate the deities, dress the deities, that's Varanasi. If somebody is very good at business, then we make them in charge of raising funds for the temple. That's Varanasi.

So, we don't have to classify people into boxes. The point is that we engage them in a compatible way. So, I'll give an example to illustrate this.

There is, when a plane has to take off, the plane needs a take-off point. And it needs a proper field from which it can take off. And say, if in Mumbai, a particular kind of airfield is made.

And say in some other city, maybe some small city, like say Nasik, or some other city where now a big airport is made. Now they want to make an airfield. Now when they want to make an airfield, the topography, the ground structure of Nasik may be different from Mumbai.

And if we start putting in a huge amount of effort to replicate the airfield exactly as it was in Mumbai in Nasik, that may require so much effort that all energy will go into it. The point is not to recreate the take-off point. The point is to replicate the take-off.

So, in Nasik, according to the topography and geography over there, you might create an airfield that is compatible, that is suitable over there, by which the take-off happens. So, much in what we call as Vedic culture was creating the take-off point. And the take-off was the practice of it.

So, sometimes you may get so caught in trying to recreate, reconstruct the take-off point, you force people, to be a devotee, you have to be like this, you have to be like this, you have to be like this. And yes, in the past, people practiced Bhakti like that. But now, if they are not able to practice like that, well, that's fine.

However, people are right now, say for example, if somebody is born, brought up in an urban setting, and if they are told, you practice Varanasi and go to a village, and you take care of a cow, and blow the land, and you practice Bhakti. Now, for them, that may be so difficult. And they just become disheartened.

Now, some people may be fried out with cities, and they happen to go and live in villages. In general, city life can be quite frustrating, but actually, if you go into villages and live in villages, that's a challenge in its own way also. So, is it that somebody has to live in villages and do farming to practice Bhakti? No.

Somebody can be in cities, they can also practice Bhakti. Yes, traditionally, most of India was agrarian. Most people lived in villages, and that's how people practiced Bhakti.

But that was a take-off point. So, the take-off point doesn't have to be recreated. It is the take-off that has to be recreated.

So, therefore, Varnashram, if we try to recreate it, especially in the Western world, I spoke at Yale, I spoke at Harvard, I spoke at Stanford, all these three places, one question which came up is, is ISKCON recommending the caste system? These are not just general classes, these are Hinduism studies classes. And the students who had come there, they study a little bit of ISKCON. And they know that Prabhupada talks about Varnashram, the four Varnas.

So, now in the Western world, if we are able to recreate the caste system, at the end of our age, the caste system is one of the worst things that has come out of India. Of course, there have been many worse things, that have come out in the Western world also. When the Christian Europeans went to America, they didn't just discriminate against the Native Americans, they eradicated them.

But somehow there's a story that has come up, and the caste system is considered very bad. And it has been, it's not just considered, it has also led to a lot of atrocities happening. So, the point is that we don't have to recreate the take-off point.

The point is, the purpose is to recreate the take-off point. So, wherever people are at, they engage people accordingly, and help people to go towards Krishna. And Prabhupada has exploited that.

Traditionally, for example, traditionally women lived in a very protected setting. But when Prabhupada saw American, Western women, they were just living like men. So, Prabhupada had women go out and do distribution.

And he would go alone and talk with people. So, that's what they were doing before. And Prabhupada did not stop them from doing that.

Now, is that ideal? The point is, the ideal is not as important as what is effective. What works for people to help them move towards Krishna. So, in some social situations, for some people, recreating the take-off may also help.

And that can also be done. But we don't have to make… sorry, recreating the take-off point. But that doesn't have to be the primary thrust of our endeavours.

So, we have to be very clear that Varanashram is also material. Varanashram itself is not spiritual. The Bhagavad Gita clearly says that धर्मसुर्ष्तपंसामिष्वक्सेन पतासुया न उत्पादेदि तिर्तिम्ष्रमेविक्ये। Now, Dharmasurusha says that is referring to Varanashram.

Acting upon Varanashram Dharma, if it doesn't increase one's attraction to Krishna, then that's a waste of time. So, at least this young man whom I met, he is forcing him to act like a Brahmana. It actually created resentment for Krishna Bhakti in his heart.

So, it was श्रमेविक्ये। So, if we are trying to impose Varanashram in society, that makes people resentful, then that is unhealthy. So, Varanashram broadly means engaging people in a way that harmonizes their material nature with their realization of spiritual nature. Did I answer your question? Is Varanashram more of an addiction of labor? Varanashram is more of an addiction of labor? Of course.

It is actually the condition of the society which is spoiling it. For example, there is a black snake and a gold snake. Black snake is more useful to the society than a gold snake.

But the society sees gold snake as more useful to the society. So, it is a condition of the society. See, Varanashram is definitely a division of society, a division of labor basically.

And it is social perception that has made certain things distorted. That is definitely true. The division of labor organically also happens.

Even now there are people who work intellectually, there are people who are administrators, there are people who are business people, there are people who are general assistance workers. So, at a functional level, this division naturally happens in society. So, that is essential.

Society cannot live without that. But what we are talking about is consciously categorizing people in that particular way. So, that is something which is… And when that categorization happens also, this is higher, this is lower.

That also can become very discriminatory. In the episode of Ramayan, the washerman was judgmental about Sita. One day when he spoke to Ram.

And Ram made a judgment based on somebody being judgmental and actually leaving Sita to the hermitage. So, how do we understand the entire episode from the point of view of today's topic of being judgment, taking judgments and not being judgmental. And somebody like Lord Ram himself passing a judgment based on somebody being judgmental.

This will have to be the last question. As we have got at least 10 to 15 minutes to answer this question. So, should I take this in the evening or should I take it now? I will take it.

It is an important question. I will try to finish the class early. Let's address it in the evening.

Actually, I have a book on the Ramayan which has hopefully come out from the legal thing. The last article is on this only, Sita's exile. We will talk about it.

In that can we also address this from Lord Rama's point? From Lord Krishna's point? As one surrenders to me, I reward them accordingly. In the same way, in relationships also, the reciprocation depends on how one approaches. That is true.

So, if you have any more questions. First of all, how many people have questions right now? One person. So, we will talk one or two.

So, maybe… Even coming in the evening or no? You have not shown the last class. So, then why I was asking about questions is that maybe we will have our fourth session on Sunday, tomorrow. Is it not? So, that time we can have a major portion of the question answer also.

I will just speak maybe half an hour. So, if any of you have any further questions, you can write them down also. And you can give the questions beforehand.

And we can discuss. Yes, last question. I want to understand, when you say bhakti, what is the take up point of bhakti? What is the essence? Like for somebody who is struggling on the way, what is the essence for him? So, what is the essential point of bhakti that he needs to take off? So, if you consider climbing a mountain.

There is the bottom of the mountain and the top of the mountain. The bottom of the mountain is material consciousness. Where we are caught in pursuing material things.

We are believed that just if I get more wealth, I get this car, I get this house. That will make me happy. And that will be the success of my life.

So, our vision is caught simply in material things. The top of the mountain is spiritual consciousness. Where we understand that Krishna is the source of everything attractive.

So, various worldly things can give me some pleasure. But that pleasure is like a drop. Whereas Krishna is like an ocean.

So, whatever happiness I might get by anything material, I can get all that and more by becoming devoted to Krishna. By learning to love Krishna. By becoming absorbed lovingly in Krishna.

So, spiritual growth, the whole purpose of practicing bhakti is to rise from the bottom of the mountain to the top of the mountain. To rise from material consciousness to spiritual consciousness. The essence of spiritual advancement.

How do we know whether we are advancing spiritually? We can see what is my definition of happiness. Not in a conceptual, theoretical sense, but practically. What do I believe? If I get this, I will become happy.

So, if our definition of happiness is to become serving Krishna, loving Krishna, becoming absorbed in Krishna. That is spiritual advancement. So, bhakti, pareeshaanubhava, viratatir anyatra chaur.

The Bhagavatam says, in the 11th canto that bhakti is a process. And the result of this process is pareeshaanubhava. Anubhava is experience.

Isha is the supreme law. Para is one who is transcendental. So, that lord who cannot be experienced by any ordinary beings, we experience him by the practice of bhakti.

So, we come in front of a temple and if we have no bhakti bhava, we just see these nice decorated statues. But in the bhakti bhava, we feel the presence of Krishna. This is sublime, this is so attractive.

And then, when the pareeshaanubhava is there, that is so captivating, that is so fulfilling, that viratatir anyatra chaur. We become detached from other things. Detached doesn't mean we become irresponsible, reject things.

Detached means that we don't depend on worldly things for our pleasure. We understand that there is a better way to live. There is a higher way to have pleasure.

So, the essence of spiritual advancement is becoming more and more attached to Krishna as a supremely attractive person and becoming detached from worldly things. So, spiritual attachment and material detachment. This is what happens.

How do you get to that point? Just by the practice of bhakti. Bhakti practice means we have basically four main things. A, B, C, D we call it.

A is association, satsang, like we come here, come to programs here and understand the philosophy associated with devotees. And association, what happens by that is, we see devotees practicing bhakti enthusiastically or start practicing bhakti enthusiastically. B is books.

We study books like Bhagavad Gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, the shastras which Prabhupada has explained, we study them. That helps us to philosophically understand things. So, association spiritualizes our social needs.

We need society, but we can have a spiritual society. Books spiritualize our intellectual needs. We need to analyze and understand things.

So, books help us to understand things. C is chanting. In the japa of the holy names of Krishna, japa and kirtan, by which we call out to Krishna and we connect with him.

D is diet and D.P. So, D.P. is we make a temple in our own house and we take vegetarian food that we offer to Krishna and we take the remnants as prasad. So, by doing this A, B, C, D, we can rise up the mountain towards spiritual consciousness. Thank you very much.

Prabhupada ki jai! Jai! Jai!