From Grudging to Gratitude QA

From Grudging to Gratitude QA 1

From Grudging to Gratitude QA 2

And continue with our discussion. We will discuss now. Question-answers primarily.

If Krishna is supreme, why does… If Krishna is supreme, why does he sanction things? Why can't he control our minds so that we don't suffer or do bad karma? Actually, this is the very meaning of free will. Free will means that there has to be a capacity to choose. And why is free will necessary? Free will is necessary for the experience of love.

If a boy places a gun at a girl's head and says, Love me or I'll kill you. That's not love. So, there is freedom which Krishna gives us.

Now, we do not have absolute freedom. We do have finite freedom. And the amount of freedom that we have depends also on the past karma that we have.

So, based on our past karma, we get certain resources. And those resources we can use properly or we can use improperly. Say, for example, by past karma, some person becomes an ordinary citizen of a country.

By past karma, some person becomes the head of state of a country. Now, so, relatively speaking, the power, the scope of control that ordinary citizen has may be less more than what the head of state has. But how they use it is up to each of them.

So now, if somebody who by their past good karma has got a lot of influence and they abuse it, then they can cause a lot of harm. Now, they are allowed to do that because by their past karma, they have become entitled to that level of power. So, we all have free will and along with the free, our free will is never taken away from us.

But by our choices, the kind of actions that we do, the scope of our free will is sometimes increased and sometimes decreased. So, when Krishna uses free will, the purpose is so that we can ultimately direct it towards him and we can learn to love him and it is in loving him that we will find lasting happiness. Without free will, we will just stand to live like robots.

Sometimes parents and the children don't obey them. Children do something which is troublesome. The parents may get irritated.

But how many parents would want to replace their child with a robot? You know, I will get a robot. It will perfectly do whatever I want it to do. But where would we love out there? So, when there is consciousness, there is free will and free will means that there has to be some scope for misusing the free will.

So, Krishna, he gives us free will and he gives us influence of how much we can, to what extent we can use it to influence our karmas. So, that's that. God is all good.

But a part of his goodness is also that he has given us free will. Sometimes people ask, how can there be evil in this world if God is good? Or why would God make people who are inclined to evil, if God is all good? Actually, it is not that people are inclined to evil. It is rather that this world is itself a place where we have multiple options.

And based on our past conditionings, based on our present culture, we are prompted towards certain choices. We always have free will, but some choices become easier and some choices become more difficult based on our conditioning and our culture. Some people, they misuse their free will.

That is simply the way, the opportunity, that misuse of free will is a possible consequence of the very presence of free will. But the presence of free will is for the reciprocation of love. And Krishna, if he had removed the free will, then we would be robots.

Krishna gives us free will and he gives us the knowledge of how to use the free will. There are these two traditions all over the world. God has himself revealed himself through different traditions at different times.

And he is there as the voice of conscience in everyone. And through it all, he gives grace. And as we have the opportunity to use our free will properly, the more we use it properly, the more the habit of using it properly becomes better, becomes ingrained.

So, it is not that Krishna is responsible for the misuse of our free will. Krishna has given the facility so that we can use it properly and we can become happy by that. When I was in Melbourne last year, one person asked a question.

In this world, if God wants us to do good, why are there so many bad things? Why are the bad options so many and the right options so few? So, I explained, that's how it always is in any multi-punctualism. That's how it always is. In any multi-punctualism, there will be 5 options, 4 wrong, 1 right.

So, like that, actually speaking, in this world, there are possibilities for misuse of free will. But if we use the free will properly, there is happiness. And if we use the free will properly, it is possible only when there is the reality of free will.

And that's how the happiness can be experienced. So, Krishna sanctions some people to misuse their free will because they have done the karma in the past by which they have that much power right now. But if they misuse their free will now, they will get the consequences of that in future.

So, if any of the questions and answers are not clear, you can raise your hands and we can discuss that point further also. So, how should we go ahead? We have written questions also, we have oral questions also. Do you have any one for MDM? We can bounce from one to another maybe.

Okay, yeah, that's a good idea. There is one here. Yes.

Regarding material desires, you said how one practises Krishna consciousness, it fills the consciousness up so much that it doesn't need material desires. But same with resentment and emotions, why do we have to process and deal with these emotions? Is it possible to just do the Krishna consciousness practise and even these emotions will be dealt with? Or is it the case that when it comes to material desires, we shouldn't really deal with it, but when it's emotional scars, we do have to deal with it? So, you said that just by filling our consciousness with Krishna, material desires will go away. So, doesn't the same apply to say emotions also in the material world, such as resentment? First of all, the process of bhakti means that whatever Krishna has given us, we use in ourselves.

So, whatever Krishna has given us, we use in ourselves. Now, if Krishna has given us intelligence to analyse, we also need to use that intelligence in Krishna consciousness. So, quite often, even for dealing with material desires, first of all, sometimes the word material desires can become a very ill-inclusive thing.

Now, after all, we have to eat. Now, is eating a material desire? A, if there is a joke in a class and if I laugh, is that material pleasure? Or before laughing, am I laughing for Krishna's pleasure or my pleasure? We become paranoid. So, we should focus primarily on the fact that we stay connected with Krishna and we seek more and closer towards Krishna.

And we do need many material things for functioning in this world, even for serving Krishna. So now, the desire for those things, is it a material desire? At one level, if I need a good job so that I can be stable financially, is that a material desire? Well, yes, you can say it is a material desire, but then I need that for serving Krishna. If it is not there, then my service to Krishna will be interrupted.

So, you know, we shouldn't become too paranoid, we shouldn't become too anti-material desires. We should be pro-Krishna, pro-service to Krishna. And whatever is required for service to Krishna, we do that.

So, sometimes we, some of us may need more material things so that we can serve Krishna. Some of us may be able to do with less material things, just like food. Some people have less appetite, some people have a lot of appetite.

When the Pandavas would, where the forest was, some of you know that. Pandavas, they would have, whatever food they would get, they would divide it into two parts. And one part would be divided into five parts.

Four would go to the four Pandavas, one would be taken by Draupadi, and the remaining one-fourth was taken by Bheema. So, Bheema was Vrkodara. Vrkodara, now, in today's world, if somebody eats a lot, we just call them as, you know, he's a glutton.

We just refer to them by a negative name. But actually, there's a positive name celebrating how much Bheema would eat. It's called Vrkodara, that is his name.

So, that's just his body, it was like that. So, just as different people, based on their body, may have different appetites, different people may have different level of how much material things they need for peaceful salvation. The important thing is that the material things don't become a competitor to Krishna.

If it's too little, then we are craving so much for it. If I have very little food, I'm thinking, when will I get food, when will I get food, when will I get food, and then I can't think of Krishna. If I have too much food, then also I can't think of Krishna.

That's why Krishna says, yuktahara, it's regulated. So, rather than focussing on whether something is material or spiritual, we focus on whether I'm serving Krishna or not. And we shouldn't make our service to Krishna conditional to any material thing.

That means, Krishna, if I don't get this job, I'm not going to serve you. If this relationship doesn't work out, I'm not going to serve you. We can't blackmail Krishna like that.

So, whatever happens in the material level, we should keep serving Krishna. But we do have needs at the material level, which need to be fulfilled. And if they are not fulfilled, it will create trouble.

So, trying to get those needs fulfilled, that is just a part of living material in this world. But we shouldn't let that fulfilment or non-fulfilment become a precondition for our practise of life. That's with respect to material desires.

So, rather than focussing on indulging in material desires or giving up material desires, we focus on service to Krishna and adjust things in such a way that whatever we need for serving Krishna, peacefully we get that. But we don't make our service to Krishna conditional to our getting or not getting that. Now, with respect to dealing with resentment, again, as I said, we have intelligence.

And whatever it takes to deal with resentment, we have to do that. Some of us may be more rational than emotional. If we are more rational, then we need rational analysis.

And when things are rationally analysed and explained, then we are able to calm down. Some people are more emotional than rational. So, if they are hurt by one person, you know, if they are sheltered by someone else, if they feel loved by someone else, if they are cared by someone else, then that's enough for them.

So, all of us are different. And we have to find out what is our need, so that we can deal with whatever it is. When we say that by practise of Krishna consciousness, say, emotions or desires need to be dealt with, the practise of Krishna consciousness is inclusive.

It's a matter of Krishna consciousness. It is not just chanting Hare Krishna. Chanting Hare Krishna is vital.

But chanting Hare Krishna is central to developing our relationship with Krishna. And developing a relationship with Krishna means using whatever He has given to us in His service. So, if we have to intellectually process certain emotions so that we can deal with them, that's what we should do.

Now, most of us, we have been born and brought up in a culture where rationality is quite valued. And although we may have our particular natures, if things are explained systematically, that helps us. So, if we are also able to analyse systematically, it helps us.

So, generally, with respect to the principle of becoming Krishna conscious, that is universal. With the practise of what makes one Krishna conscious, there are certain standard practises like chanting, and hearing, and associating with devotees, worshipping the deities. But with respect to introspection, with respect to processing of emotions, whatever we need to do, we should do.

Now, with respect to practicality, we have to find out what is our need and we get that equipment. So, it is said that the shoe that fits one leg, bites another leg. So, for one person, intellectual analysis or processing of emotions is vital.

For another person, I just feel burdened by this. So, if they feel like that, that's fine. So, we have to find out what is our need and adapt ourselves.

In Krishna consciousness, the standard practises are meant to direct our consciousness towards Krishna. But when we are going towards Krishna, we use all that we have in this service. So, if we have introspective nature, we have analytical nature, we have extrovert nature, whatever it is, we have to find out how to accommodate the nature in a way that we can use it towards Krishna.

Does it answer your question? Thank you. How to absorb ourselves in Krishna rather than the problem? Generally, we have to, during our regular practises of bhakti, find out activities that very easily and quickly connect us with Krishna. In the Bhakti example of Sindhu, there is a word used called Uddipan.

Uddipan means spiritual stimulus. So, spiritual stimulus means those spiritual objects which stimulate our thoughts towards Krishna. Just like in the material world, all of us have our own particular temptations that we are vulnerable to.

Somebody might be, say, attached to a particular sport. Somebody might be attached to a particular movie star. Somebody might be attracted to a particular TV serial.

Now, we have our own particular temptations towards which we are attracted. That means as soon as we are exposed to them, our thoughts immediately start rolling in that direction. Now, what those temptations are for you will be different from what they are for me.

It's the same for everyone. Just as there is this individuality and whatever is our particular weakness, vulnerability, we have to protect ourselves. But that same individuality also applies in the spiritual path.

Some of us may be more attracted to films. Some of us may be more attracted to Shloka recitation. Some of us may be more attracted to Deity worship.

Some of us may like to cook for Krishna. Some of us may like to immerse ourselves in the spiritual side. Some of us may just like to hear.

And even in hearing, some of us may like to hear a particular devotee. Some of us may like to recite Vaishnav songs. So, we have to find out within the broad purview of devotional service, what is it that enables us to quickly absorb ourselves in Krishna.

And once we have found that, can we make that as easily and readily available as possible. So then, if there is a particular darshan of Krishna, which really makes me feel connected, then keep that in one's phone. Keep one's pictures with oneself always.

And whenever the mind gets agitated by some problem, immediately look at that. At that time when the mind is agitated, when we have to deal with the mind, we cannot go in with a pre-decided action plan. Because the mind does not work predictively all the time.

So, by dealing with the mind, we have to have the approach of whatever works. As I said, chanting, studying scriptures, all these are wonderful. They are powerful.

But sometimes the mind may be in such a recalcitrant way. Sometimes the mind may be so adamant that particular things may not work at particular time. So, we have to look back at our own experience and see what is it that connects us with Krishna very easily.

And if we keep those things available, then immediately we will be able to connect with Krishna. So, if you like kirtans, then maybe a particular dhoon, particular song, particular kirtan, keep that readily available. And we can say that actually Krishna is manifesting his mercy to us.

Krishna is making himself accessible to us through that particular manifestation. So, through this, at least at an immediate level, when the problems are dominating our consciousness, we can pull our consciousness towards Krishna. See, we are conscious of many things in this world.

But when problems happen, the problems come with a come inbuilt with a problematic mental view. When the problems come, we stick to our mind. We want to think of this, think of that.

This mindset is stuck over there. You know, sometimes something is come with a glue or a tie, stuck. We have to literally rip it apart.

Pull it out. Drag it out and get it somewhere else. But dragging it out is not very easy.

So, that's why if we have some ready way to get the mind towards Krishna, then that is what we can access at that time. In general, sometimes the scriptures tell us that the mind is like an enemy. The mind is an enemy and we have to be very careful about it.

Yes, the mind is an enemy. But at the same time, the mind is something which we have to live with. Not only something we have to live with, our mind is the only mind we have.

It's not like a replaceable part. So, we can't always have an antagonistic attitude towards the mind. We have to be aware that the mind can cause a lot of danger.

But we have to learn to live with the mind. One of the best metaphors I have found for dealing with the mind is the metaphor of a mother and a child. Our intelligence has to be like a mother.

And the mind is like a child. So, now sometimes the child starts crying. Now, mothers know that there are all kinds of creative ways we have to use to pacify the child.

Sometimes the child just gives a toy and the child becomes happy. Sometimes the child doesn't become happy. So, there is no preset formula.

But we have to be firm and at the same time we have to be gentle. Both combinations are there. And we have to make the child become peaceful.

Sometimes they cry for a little time, then they will become peaceful. Whatever it takes. So, if we… Now, just because the child is demanding something, we don't have to necessarily give it.

If the child is upset, that doesn't mean we have to accede to its requests. But we have to be aware of it. This is what is happening and I have to see how to pacify the child.

So, like that, chanchala, restlessness, restlessness, chanchala, that adjective is often used to refer to children also. Now, if we treat the mind like a child, that means we won't trust it implicitly. When the mind is thinking of problems, we understand this is not the best thing to do and I have to redirect it.

And how do I redirect it? That's where we have to use our creativity. That's where we have to use our intelligence. And… So, the first thing I said is that we try to find out our stimuli by which we can connect with Krishna and be readily… keep that readily available.

Second thing is that we… we need to be mature like a mother so that we can pacify the child like mind when it gets obsessed with something. So, the child starts, you know, I want this toy. Mother says, no.

I want this toy. No. I want this toy.

So now, at that time the mother has to be expert in dealing with it. Similarly, we have to become expert. So, when we want to take… when we want to absorb ourselves in Krishna, at that time we should know that we will pass through a phase of poison.

Krishna says, that which tastes like poison in the beginning will taste like nectar in the end. So, that process of pulling the mind out of the problem and fixing it on Krishna, that may seem like poison initially. But dwelling on the problem is like the path of least resistance.

Because that's what the mind wants to think about. It's the path of least resistance in one's thinking about the problem. But that path ends in a lot of trouble.

Because the more we think of the problem, the more we become depressed, the more we feel negative, the more we start becoming resentful. So, thinking about the problem might seem easy initially, but it's a lot of trouble initially. But pulling the mind away from the problem and getting it towards Krishna, it is difficult.

But whatever it is that we decide to do, okay, now I'm going to study scripture and I'm going to get my mind off this problem. I'm going to hear a class and I'm going to get my mind off this problem. Whatever we do, the mind will not immediately agree with it.

We will go through a phase of poison. 18.37 Krishna says, यत्तदग्रे विशमिव परिनामे नंदितोपमाँ It will taste like poison in the beginning, nectar in the end. So, we have to perceive here.

It's like the poison, I can't do it. It's too much. No, but the poison is not going to last forever.

It's only a layer. So, when we don't feel like thinking about Krishna, don't feel like focussing on Krishna, the poison is only going to initial layer. If you just penetrate through that layer, after that, there is going to be, there is going to be the nectar, the relief that comes, the joy that comes from absorption of Krishna.

So, that way, we can, by having our own deepan, by being mature, and having our own deepan, to be mature like a child, and by persevering, in the process of connecting with Krishna, we can move from problem consciousness to Krishna consciousness. Like I said, don't tell, tell God how big your problems are. Tell your problems, how big God is.

So, rather than being problem conscious, why is this problem there? Krishna is far, far bigger than that. So, ultimately, if you have studied the philosophy, you will understand that Krishna is bigger than this problem. And Krishna will help me to deal with this problem.

So, I don't have to get so agitated about this. Krishna will take care. So, basically, I'll talk more about this in a later class.

Letting go, and letting Krishna do things. As long as we feel that I have to solve the problem, then we can't stop thinking about the problem. But we understand that Krishna is there.

And Krishna can deal with this problem better than what I can deal with. And let me just focus on Krishna and let Krishna deal with this problem. If we let go, if we understand that normally we think that things are either in my control or things are out of my control.

And this problem is out of my control. What should I do? But if we are Krishna conscious, we understand that things that are out of my control are not out of control. They are out of my control, but they are still Krishna's control.

And I have done my part. Let me let go. Let Krishna deal with it.

So, as long as we position ourselves as controllers who can solve the problem, we will not be able to stop thinking about the problem. But as soon as we position ourselves as servants, I am a servant of Krishna, my one service is to solve this problem. But solving this problem is not my whole life.

I have a life in which I can serve Krishna in many other ways. So let me not stop my life just because the problem is there. I will serve Krishna in other ways.

If we position ourselves as servants and Krishna as our Lord, then we will be able to let go of that particular situation and continue our connection with Krishna or service to Krishna through other ways. And then eventually, we will be able to, with that rejuvenation that comes from connection with Krishna, we will find out how best to deal with the problem. Any questions? Yeah.

Actually, there were a couple of devotees who had given me questions before I left. Pareshwar was here? Yeah. I think I left those papers in the… Yeah, you can also ask questions.

So you can also ask questions over to Pareshwar if you want. Sorry? …voter or, you know… In other words, you know, like I'm here, I do serve as a builder or, you know, and I'm trying to unite people. And it doesn't seem easy to try making flower garlands off of Krishna or, you know, whatever.

I'd rather be a builder or something like that. Okay. I understood your question, yeah.

Yeah. So, what if we don't feel attracted to going to Krishna and just having Krishna in the spiritual world by making flower garlands or whatever for Him. If we feel that, we want to practise bhakti, we want to chant Hare Krishna, but whatever we are doing in this world, we will be builders, we will be professionals in particular ways.

We feel more attracted to doing that than we are attracted to serving Krishna in the spiritual world. Yes. So there is a sentimental attraction to Krishna and there is a spiritual attraction to Krishna.

The sentimental attraction… Sentiments are not bad, but sentimentality can be a problem. Sentimental attraction to Krishna means, oh, this is so nice, that is so nice, that is so nice. We are just moved around by our sentiments.

The spiritual attraction to Krishna is centred on service. Krishna, you are my lord, I am your servant. And I want to serve you.

So now, based on our particular upbringing, based on the particular kind of culture we were in, the specifics of the spiritual world, we may or may not presently find attractive. And if some of us find attractive, whether that is simply because of cultural upbringing or that is because of spiritual attraction, we don't know at this stage. So some of us might just be attracted to gardens and flowers.

Oh, the spiritual world is filled with gardens and flowers. Very nice. I want to go there.

Well, that is fine. Anyway, we are attracted to Krishna, that is good. But we don't have to necessarily worry too much about whether we are attracted to the specifics at this stage.

The specifics of the spiritual world, we will become attracted as we become purified and as the soul starts becoming manifested. So I'll give some examples from the Indian context. So some of us may have been may have been born and brought up by parents who were Rama devotees, Ram Bhaktas.

So you know, in my childhood, we may have heard some Ram Bhajans, Ram Kathas. And we will be attracted now also to Ram Bhakti. Now I'm so attracted to Ram Bhakti.

Maybe I belong to Ayodhya, not to Goloka. In the spiritual world, maybe I'm in Lord Ram's abode, not Krishna's abode. When it may be, it may not be.

So it might be our attraction to Ram might simply be cultural because that's what I was born and I was brought up with that. So anyway, we are attracted to Krishna, that is fortunate. But we don't have to necessarily limit our relationship to Krishna to just that particular thing.

Oh, because I belong to Ayodhya, so I won't hear Krishna. No, at our stage, we simply want to get purified. We simply want to develop a service attitude.

And eventually, whatever is our Swaroopa, whatever is our eternal form and relationship with Krishna, that will be revealed. And when it is revealed, we spontaneously attract. So at this stage, we just focus on developing the relationship with Krishna, on connecting with Krishna.

So we come in the association of devotees, we hear about Krishna, we do practical service to Krishna. And when we do this consistently, then right now the soul is covered by the mind and is covered by the body. And even when we are serving Krishna right now, the soul's desire to serve Krishna will be expressed according to the body and the mind.

So if I have the body and the mind of an intellectual, then my desire to serve Krishna will be expressed through intellectual activities or it will be expressed as intellectual desires. I want to write, I want to speak, I want to analyse. If I have a body and mind, which is, say, of a singer, and my desire to serve Krishna will be expressed as a singer.

Now it is not necessary that this particular desire to serve Krishna which we have currently, it is not necessarily reflective of the desires which we have, of the soul's natural desires in the spiritual world. The soul may have a different set of pure desires which will become awakened when we are purified. So we see that externally speaking, in our tradition, we have the Goswamis who are considered to be the topmost devotees, among the greatest followers of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

And in the spiritual world, they are Gopis. They are Manjaris, actually. They are the associates of the Gopis.

And externally speaking, you look at the Sanyasis and you look at the Manjaris. There is no similarity at all. There is no similarity at all.

And the way they were serving here was also significantly different from the way they were serving the spiritual world. Some similarities are there, but that difference is also there. So the important thing is, we don't have to, at this stage in our spiritual life, we don't have to worry too much about the specifics.

We just focus on connecting with Krishna. Along with that, as we keep practising Bhakti over the years, we should try to also hear about Krishna, specifically about Krishna. About Krishna, his pastimes.

Not only about that, and not only about, say, esoteric pastimes of Krishna, but as we hear about Krishna, we become purified, we'll find that our particular spiritual nature will start manifesting. So rather than focussing on whether I have an attraction to some specific in the spiritual world or not, we can focus on whether I have a commitment to serve Krishna. We can see our relationship with Krishna developing in terms of our commitment to serve.

You know, how much am I ready to commit myself? How much responsibility am I ready to take for serving Krishna? If we are ready to do that, then we are growing spiritually. And eventually, when the time comes for us to enter the spiritual world, whatever is our relationship with Krishna, that particular attraction manifests from our soul. And we will be accordingly engaged, and we will be fully satisfied in that.

Does that answer your question? Do you have any questions? Yeah, thank you, Prabhu. In one of the talks, you talked about speaking the truth. If the truth could hurt someone, in the example of God, then it's better not to say it.

So, in our legal system, if the police question you, you have to tell them the truth, otherwise they could get into trouble. So, how does that fit in? Because if you're trying to be true to yourself, and deliver a truth for life, then you want to say the truth, always. And if not saying it is actually helping yourself, then similar, could it be justified to actually lie to yourself, if that's going to help? Okay.

So, I said that we don't have to tell every truth every time. In the legal system, when we have to testify, we are expected to tell the whole truth. What is that? Tell the whole truth, and tell nothing except the truth.

So, so then, if we can tell the truth selectively, while sharing Krishna Consciousness, does it mean that also we can tell the truth selectively, if it is going to help someone? Yes. There are two broad conceptions of morality. One is morality as categorical, and the other is morality as contextual.

Morality as categorical means, that this is the category of moral, or right. And this is the category of immoral, or wrong. And some people, this is how it is.

This is white, this is black. One conception, the morality is categorical. The other is, morality is contextual.

That, what is right, or what is wrong, will depend on context. So now, if we consider practically, say, speaking lies, is not good. But suppose, say, there are terrorists who are chasing after a friend of ours, and then that friend comes to our house, and we hide that friend somewhere in our basement or somewhere.

And those rioters, they come and knock at our door. Is he there over here? Should we speak the truth at that time? Now, speaking truth is a virtue. Now, there is a higher virtue, that is, preserving life.

So, we have to not only have the adherence to morality, but we also have to have the intelligence to know that sometimes there will be different moralities involved. You know, different kinds of moralities involved, and there can be a hierarchy. Speaking truth is important, but still, life is more important.

So therefore, morality cannot be absolutised. Always. Morality is not always categorical.

It can also be contextual. So, what would normally be considered wrong can, in certain contexts, be right. And that can be more right than other things, than what would normally be considered right.

So therefore, there is the letter of the law and there is the spirit of the law. The letter of the law, speaking truthfully, the idea is that we have to speak truthfully so that we become attracted to, so that, you know, we function properly. But sometimes, not speaking, speaking partially the truth, that's what may be required so that we can, we can benefit others.

So, Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita that that all endeavours are covered by fire, just as fire is covered by smoke. So, in this world, it's not possible to be absolutely moral at the material level. Now, this, of course, should mean that that morality is contextual, does not mean two different things.

It does not mean that there are no moral categories at all. That is the idea in today's world. Morality is entirely relative.

Whatever your conscience tells, that is right for me. Whatever my conscience tells, it is right for me. Now, there are moral categories, but the categories are not prototyped.

There can be, there are, there has to be exceptions which have to be made according to context. So, the complete relativization of morality is not accepted. The second thing is that the habitual, habitual resorting to immorality is also not accepted.

These are exceptions. So, on some exceptional situations, we may have to speak something which is not true for serving a higher purpose. But normally, we need to speak the truth.

So, sometimes it's required and that has to be done very carefully. If we are not careful, then we start habitually speaking something which is not true. And we, we, we, eventually we speak too many counterfactual things, people come to know.

And then we become untrustworthy. We may even become untrustworthy. So, in extremely difficult situations, for example, Sadatan Goswami was in prison.

And he was a tyrannical Muslim ruler who was not going to release him at all. And it was just a personal vendetta. There was no, no case against him at all.

There was no trial, nothing, he was just in prison. So, at that time, he told his prisoner, he told his warden, you know, I want to go to Mecca. And you know, once before I die, I want to do this pious activity of going to Mecca.

And you know, if you release me, then you will also get that piety. I will help the person go to Mecca. Go to the holy place.

And then, India. At that time, Sadatan Goswami was also a pile of gold coins. And he was a saint.

So, now, actually, he had only a desire to go to Varanasi, to meet Sethanama. No intention of going to India. But you know, that was a life or death situation.

So, he did that. But it was not that he was habitually doing that all the time. Once in a while, after careful thought, and usually with consultation with some seniors, he can sometimes speak in a way that is, that helps other people grow.

But that may not be the full truth. But we should not make that as a habit. And that doesn't mean that there is no such thing as a truth.

Does that answer your question? Okay. Should society dictate to us the criteria for which we should use when forgiving someone? Example, jail, rehabilitation, fines. Generally, society does not dictate forgiveness.

Forgiveness is very much a voluntary activity. I'll talk about forgiving or not forgiving, that in a full later session. But here I'll talk about general principles.

Now, we, we live today in a multicultural world. And even in the past, if you look at the time of the Mahabharata, at that time also, there were many different philosophies present. There are people who were Shaivites, there are people who were Vaishnavas, there are people who were Shaktas.

Mahabharata describes that. Bhagavatam also describes, very nonchalantly. Shamik Rishi is described to be an impersonalist.

There is no value judgement associated with it. Impersonal realisation is also a high level of realisation. It becomes a problem when it is claimed to be the highest and Krishna's form is considered to be an illusion.

Otherwise, impersonal realisation is also a high realisation. The point is that Krishna is, that it is never going to be that that the devotional principles of morality are going to be completely in accord with the social principles. The devotional principles and social laws will always be the same.

So we, wherever we are, we need to respect those. One says, there was a new temple and they had deities and there was a neighbour who had many flowers in his garden. That person went to that person's garden, took all the flowers and they came back and they made a garland offer to the deities.

Now this neighbour woke up and he was furious. He got up and he says, they came to the devotees and saw they had made a garland publicly, like somebody robbed something. At least they had what they robbed.

So the devotee had put the garland on the deities for everyone to see. And he was very angry. And Prabhupada came to know about it.

Prabhupada said, the devotee said, No Prabhupada, everything belongs to Krishna. He gave it to Krishna as service. Prabhupada said, Yes, everything belongs to Krishna.

But Krishna has entrusted that to this person. Right now it belongs to me. So, we are souls, but we are situated in particular situations.

The soul currently is in a particular body. It's in a particular dynasty. It's a particular nationality.

And we don't have to totally identify with that. But we can't deny that. Vrindavan is ultimately in the spiritual world.

But if in this world's map, in this world's topographical classification, geographical classification, if I were to put it, if I were to put Vrindavan in India, I'm not going to put it in Pakistan or Russia or Africa. It's in India. So, whatever are the local laws, we understand that this is the particular situation I am in by my past karma.

And we function appropriately. Generally, we should be, devotees should be law-abiding. We should be seen as people who are in a mode of goodness.

Broadly speaking. When Prabhupada was asked, How can we identify your followers? Prabhupada said, They are perfect gentlemen and ladies. Prabhupada did not say that they are all chanting Hare Krishna.

He could have said that. But here, Prabhupada was talking at a public forum. He said, how should devotees appear to be? Perfect gentlemen and ladies.

Now, if we have our siddhanta, we have our sadhana, we have our sadhacharya. Siddhanta is our philosophical understanding. Our sadhana is our personal spiritual practises.

Our sadhacharya is our behaviour. The world doesn't care what is your siddhanta, what is your sadhana. What you believe, what you practise, as a spiritual practise, the world doesn't care.

What the world cares is how we behave. And, if our behaviour is good, it's a nice person. It's a nice person.

I want to know more. I want to know what makes you click. What makes you tick.

And then, they become interested in Krishna. So devotees, whatever situation we are in, in a social, national, cultural situation, we need to adapt to ourselves accordingly. And function in a way that will be, that devotees will be respected in the mainstream society.

Does that answer the question? Any other questions? When you are chanting, reading, how do we stop the mind from wandering? Yes. The mind is very much in the mode of passion, so we have to bring it back. And what we could do is, many things we could do.

One is that, basically, we have to channelise the principles of passion for transcendence. So, passion means, in Rajyogana, we have to have tangible, concrete things. So, if I'm reading, set targets.

Okay, I can read, I can read one page in three minutes or five minutes. If I'm going to read for one hour, that means I can read 15 pages. We set a target.

And we start feeling a sense of motion. Our goal is not simply to complete the target, but setting targets helps us to get a sense of direction and achievement. What happens in spiritual life, it's a long journey.

And we don't even know whether we're moving forward or not. Yesterday I was chanting Hare Krishna, today I'll be chanting Hare Krishna. What difference is it making? It is making a big difference, but at a subtle level.

It's like sometimes when you're going in a plane, if you just look outside on the plane, it seems like the same sky is there everywhere. You don't really feel, only if you look down, you may see, okay, there's a sea, now there's a mountain over here. When they're so high up, you can't see that.

So you're going through the sky, you don't see any movement seeming to be happening. Or the plane may be moving at hundreds of kilometres, but the plane just appears to be just moving on a stroll. If you're sitting especially next to the V, next to the V's, you see the plane seems to be moving so slow, almost like somebody going for a morning stroll.

Isn't it? So like that, we don't feel as if we are moving in our spiritual life, but every day when we are practising Bhakti, we are moving. So we have to create some external targets, external goals, by which we get a sense of movement, sense of excitement, sense of achievement. Prabhupada would do this, it's a two book distribution.

He would distribute both books, double like Prabhupada would say. So like that, we can create some targets for ourselves. Additionally, we have to find out what is the best way, say that I can absorb myself.

So sometimes it may be that we read something and then we plan. We may have some other friend with whom we are reading, we plan, maybe we can, every day we'll discuss one or two points. So when I'm reading, what is a good point to read, what is it I'd like to share? So then, we'll be able to hear more at a later point, because we're looking for something more specific.

Instead of just passive reading, we'll do active reading. And it's also good to, to try to recap periodically. That is, if I'm reading, it's just okay, last 10 minutes I've been reading, what exactly did I read? Just close your eyes and think.

Try to recap, 30 seconds, pause and think. So basically, try to make the process of reading, as active as possible. Similar with respect to chanting, we periodically just remind ourselves, what am I doing? Not just utter the sound, but not just be doing the activity, be aware of what we are doing.

Then if we can remind ourselves, maybe by reading a little bit about the importance of the holy name, keeping some verses about the glory of the holy name, that helps us to remind ourselves of the importance of chanting. Then we can stimulate ourselves. Do we need a break right now? it's almost, what time did we start? 2.30? Okay, let's complete one question about this nationalism.

Okay. Is it good to be a nationalist as well as a Krishna devotee? Do soldiers attain higher spiritual planets after death? There are two different questions. Let me take this first.

Is it good to be a nationalist as well as a Krishna conscious devotee? It is definitely not good to be an anti-nationalist. Wherever we are in. See, as I said, all of us, we have a particular kind of body, particular kind of mind.

And based on the body-mind that we have, we will have a particular set of interests. Now bhakti is at one level of connecting with Krishna directly. At another level, it also involves connecting what we are connected with, with Krishna.

If I'm intellectual, I'm connected with intellectual stuff. Then I'll try to connect intellectual things with Krishna. If I'm interested in music, now it's not just that, we will learn traditional forms of music, perform kirtans, but we will also use current forms of music and use them to share Krishna conscious music.

So like that, with respect to music or language or food. Now when we are offering food, whatever food we take, we offer it to Krishna. But then we may offer some traditional foods to Krishna, we offer contemporary foods to Krishna.

The principle is we offer it to Krishna. Just like all of us have different interests. So like that, with respect to food, music, reading, similarly, with respect to social involvement, some of us may be more socially conscious.

Some of us may be less socially conscious. Some of us may have more of a fervour for nationalism. Some of us may not have that.

Now, it's only if nationalism becomes a value which competes with our Krishna consciousness. We start spending more time pursuing nationalistic causes than Krishna conscious causes. Then it becomes a problem.

But, if you can channel the two, that's perfectly fine. If you can connect the two and integrate the two, that means, we take the Krishna conscious principles and we, you share them with people who are more of a nationalistic orientation. It is, the important thing is, that we as devotees connect, as we connect ourselves with Krishna and we connect that which we are connected with Krishna.

So if somebody is from a nationalistic background and then they become devotees, then they will know best what language to speak, how to present, so that other people who are nationalistically orientated also can become connected with Krishna. They may not become connected with Krishna at the same level of connectedness as devotees may. But they'll become more favourable.

So we can see national activism as a special interest. Some people have it, some people don't have it. It's, some people might be interested in learning music.

Some special instruments they learn so that they can use that music to serve Krishna. So like that if we have some particular interest, we can use that. It's not an obligation, but it's not a, it's not something which is, it's not necessary to do it, but it's not wrong to do it.

The key thing is, when we are doing it, are we connecting with Krishna more or are we connected with that thing more? Like suppose I'm learning some new musical instrument. I can spend my whole life learning that instrument. And for learning that instrument, I start singing this song, that song, which has got nothing to do with Bhagwat.

And then my purpose is lost completely. So that shouldn't happen. I use some time to learn, but then I use it in Krishna's service.

So like that, if we are having nationalistic interest, we have to see whether the nationalistic sentiment is dominating my consciousness. When I'm chanting Hare Krishna, I'm also thinking about something about nationalistic issue. They did like this, they did like that, they did like that.

If it's dominating our consciousness too much, then we have to be a little regulated in that. We can find out other devotees who are of similar interests, and then we can, especially some senior devotees who understand that thing, then they can guide us to what extent we can be involved, what we have to be careful about, and how we can move forwards. So the principle of Bhakti is to connect what we, connect ourselves with Krishna and connect that which we are connected with, with Krishna.

Now, do soldiers get higher spiritual planets if they die in the battle? Not necessarily spiritual planets. They will get, if they are doing the cause of beauty, of protecting the nation, and if they die at that time, then there are different levels, it depends on the consciousness. Some soldiers are doing it just as another job, and it's a part of the job, it's a part of the risk for the job, which, that risk is a part of job description.

Some people may, some soldiers may really have some patriotic feelings where they want to, they love their country and they want to work for their country, protect their country. Some soldiers may actually even be spiritually minded and they feel that, oh, when we are fighting this war, actually, you know, say, if somebody is, some soldiers are fighting in India against Pakistan, then they may have a conscious, not necessarily that, actually, you know, if India is the land of Dharma, if it is not protected, then there can be so much suffering, there can be so much, in the past so many temples were desecrated, by aggressors, the same thing can happen again. So you are protecting that.

So a lot depends on consciousness. So therefore, rather than saying that, the soldiers who die will attain higher planets, we have to see what their consciousness is. And definitely, any activity which involves a certain level of selflessness, that is indicative of a consciousness which is expanded.

And there will be a reward for that. But how much, that will vary from person to person, from individual consciousness. So we can't make a general blanket statement.

It depends on the individual consciousness of the person. Thank you very much. So actually, we have a break time of 4.35. So we can continue this early on.

So 4, then after break 4.45. Okay, what would you prefer? Would you, because it's been lunch recently, so, would you prefer a break now, and then we start again after, say, 4.30, 4.45? Whichever way you prefer. I think, I think talking is easier than hearing. Especially after, especially after lunch.

So, maybe, I'll close my eyes and you take a vote. Do we still carry on with the break at 4.45? No, so what, till what time do we plan to go on? I think the total is still 7. No, totally this is 7, isn't it? So, what we could do is, it's 3.35 now. Okay, so we can have a 10 minute, this is what we could do, we can have a 10 minute break, then we can go on till maybe, okay,.