Modes 2 – The modes in action in today’s world Gita 14.16 Warangal youth

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
So, does anyone remember any points from what we discussed yesterday about the gunas? Sorry, anything? Gunas, we saw there were three aspects. One was the building blocks, the building forces, and the third one was the pre-arranged paths or pre-arranged choices, pre-arranged paths or choices.
So, yesterday this question was asked about references. Well, there are no specific references to, like, the building blocks, I gave the reference of 714. The world is material nature, world is made of, material nature is made of the, maya is made of the bones and forces, that is what we decided yesterday.
They are like ropes in spine, 14.5. So, there are, this idea of pre-arranged paths, this is not so much a matter of reference as it is a matter of inference. What do I mean by inference? It is the fact that it is said that certain places are in particular modes or even certain activities, certain mentalities, they are in particular modes. What that means is that if this is the kind of behaviour a person has or you associate with the person’s kind of behaviour, that is the track on which you are going to go.
So, in that sense, the idea that a forest is largely in the mode of goodness or a library is in the mode of goodness. So, what that means is that in that area, the path goes that way. So, it is an inference.
Then we discussed about the three gunas and how each of them has its value. Sattva, raja and tamas. Raja is required for the maintenance of the world.
And even tamas is required, otherwise you won’t have rest and rejuvenation. The problem is dominance by the modes. So, now, with respect to the modes itself, Krishna in the Gita talks about the modes primarily in chapter 14.
However, he also talks about the modes in chapter 17. And then in the first half of chapter 18, basically around, he emphasises the concept of the modes and it is the analysis from text 20 to around text 40. There, he is also talking about the modes and he is analysing various components of action in terms of the modes.
So, we will, today in today’s session, we will try to look at some broad things from each of these chapters to try to understand the concept of modes better. So, in this particular verse, now, in this particular verse, the effect of the modes is to be on. So, spirituality or generally the spiritual can be known in broadly two ways.
One is what is called as ontological or you could use the word concave or structure. And the other is functional. Ontological means what it is and functional is what it does.
So, the idea is that in today’s world especially, that people are not really interested in so much what is the nature of reality. There is a discussion about that. But many people are interested in practising meditation or mindfulness, even mantra chanting because it benefits them and they want to make sense of how it benefits.
So, people are interested in the functional side of things, the ontological thing that what actually exists. So, actually, in today’s world, scientifically speaking, proving the existence of the soul or proving the existence of God is quite difficult. We have some cases which we use for proving the existence of God, but none of that is really accepted by mainstream science.
Not rejected, it is a case, but it is not a knockout case. There are many concerns about it and slowly the evidence is piling up. But the point is many people, they are not so much concerned.
In fact, for them, whether the soul exists or not is not as important as if I do some spiritual meditation, how will it benefit? So, people are more interested in the functional side of things. That is not necessarily a good or bad thing. It is just the way things are like.
So, when we talk about the modes, Krishna also spends much more time in describing the modes in functional terms. So, now, what is the difference between, say, ontological and functional, like fire and burns? So, fire is the thing. Burning is what it does.
Now, the two are related. Guru Goswami gives this example in the Sandarbhas that fire is the thing, burning is its vishesh, its characteristic, its feature, its guna. Now, can there be fire that does not burn? Well, maybe, we could say, it might be hypothetically possible.
Like we have hot light sources, cold, not so hot light sources, like bulbs and tube lights. So, you could say, now, is that really fire in the conventional sense? Can’t really call it fire. It’s basically illumination.
So, generally, it’s very difficult for us to convey, conceive of fire without burning. Generally speaking. But the point is, the two are, while they are different, we primarily know there is fire through the burning sensation.
So, like that, there are modes, what they are and what they do. So, the Gita also describes modes much more in functional terms. So, generally, what it does, how do we know that? So, Krishna describes the, if you consider, the modes and what it does, that is, their effects.
So, he talks about it at four different levels. From 11 to 13, he will talk about the prominence, the presence and prominence. We are talking about the 14th chapter right now.
That when a particular mode is present and prominent, what is the result? Then in 14, 15 and 16 verses, or other, let’s make it shorter, in, let’s go over them one by one as we move forward. So, presence and prominence means, and Krishna says, how do we know which mode is prominent at a particular time? So, he says that with respect to Satyaguna. Yesterday, I mentioned characters of Satyaguna.
What happens with Satyaguna? Reflection first, action later. The same thing Krishna says in a little more poetic terms. Let’s recite this verse.
So, Sattva, when Sattva is Vibhruddha, when Sattva has become prominent, Krishna in the previous verse says, in the 10th verse, that the modes are constantly in competition. So, we see that even in our own lives, say, right now you are sitting and hearing this class. Maybe a part of you wants to sit and study and understand this.
Another part of you may want to say, actually, I have so many things to do. I have to do this and I have to do that. I hope this class will not go for too long.
I have things to do. It’s not necessary, you can do it. You can do it.
You can do it. You may have your services to do, important things to do. But a part of us wants to be reflective, think, understand.
A part of us wants to do things. Another part is saying, no, I am just tired. I have a long day.
I am tired. I just want to sleep. I am getting ready to sleep.
Another part of us. So, there are these parts of us which are pulling us in different directions. So, these are associated with the modes.
And they are there and they are competing inside us. Now, this competition also happens outside us, but we feel it most evidently inside us. If a meeting is going on, sometimes one person might be more Sattvic, another person might be more Rajasic, another person might be more Tamasic.
So, depending on who becomes more prominent, the meeting will go in a particular way. If Sattvic person is there, we say, okay, let’s, we need to get, maybe we need to get more information. We need to analyse more.
Let’s find out more about this. Let’s find out more about that. That could be Sattva-guna.
Rajasic-guna could be, let’s, let’s do this. But what about these things? Oh, don’t be so, don’t be so pessimistic. Just let’s do it.
Tamasic-guna, person just, like they say, some people make things happen, some people watch things happen, and some people wonder what happened. So, Sattva-guna is not just lazy. Sattva-guna is not just thinking.
The thinking and acting. In the Amrit Manthan Leela, you know the, the Leela in which the milk potion is being churned. So, at that time, there was the rod, which was being pulled by ropes.
So, on one side, the pulling was done by Devatas, who were energised by Sattva-guna. And on the other side, the Asuras were energised by Rajasic-guna. And both of them were pulling.
So, and they were able to pull. And they were able to churn. So, what it means is that Sattva and Rajas were having equal energy to balance.
Some of the people think that Indian Sattva, you won’t do much things. But, they were, one side was having Sattvic energy, the other was having Rajasic energy. So, they were both able to function.
If the churning is going on, and one side is stronger than the other, then churning can’t happen. It just gets pulled in one direction. So, the idea is, ultimately, Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these modes, Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, while they are associated with certain activities, that is there, but they are much more associated with the mentality behind the activities.
So, the same activity can be done in Sattva, the same activity can be done in Rajas, the same activity can also be done in Tamas. So, it’s more a matter of our mentality or our consciousness. What is the level of our consciousness when we are doing the activities? So, when Krishna does give some classification, but it is not necessarily a black and white classification.
In the 17th chapter, Krishna talks about how Tapasya can also be the Sattva, Rajas, Tamas. So, it depends on why a person will do something. So, how do we know? It struck me when I was in college.
When I was in Nasik, I was the best student in my class. But when I came to Pune for engineering, I had students from all over India. I was still among the better students, but I was not the best student.
I really had to work hard and compete. And I was quite interested in the analytical, not so much philosophical, I didn’t know philosophy, but I was pretty interested in the analytical side of things, understanding concepts, trying to study and learn for the joy of learning. And then, so we had an exam, I came second, the one boy came first and he was very happy.
So, I had to congratulate him. He said, today I am so happy. He said, yeah, you came first.
He said, no. He said, this girl whom I was trying to propose, she has agreed to come with me on my bike before I come first. So, for him, coming first was just a means to the end.
So, study is a Sattva activity, he puts it relatively speaking. But why was he studying? Not so much because he was interested in the subject. It was, there is nobody he could impress a girl.
So, you could say that the activity is determined not just by what is the activity, but why a person is doing the activity also. So, the Sattva rajas tamas in terms of ultimately the mentality. Now, that is why Krishna is saying that the verse, sarva-dvareshu dehe smi prakashu bhajaye dehe.
Prakasha means illumination, light. Now, what are the doors of the body? What does it mean? Does the body have any doors? What does it refer to? Yeah, the senses. Now, what does it mean? Sattva guna, person sattva guna, light comes out of his ears, light comes out of his nose, nostrils.
Now, here, see the Gita is poetry. It is Bhagavad Gita, the song of God. And poetry means there are poetic ornaments.
There is non-literal usage repeatedly in the Bhagavad Gita. So, once it is non-literal usage, prakasha is not just light coming out. It is, they say, it has a dark room and there is a door.
If the whole room is dark, then who comes in and who goes out? No one will know. Say, this class was completely dark. Then we would not know who is sitting in the class, who is not sitting in the class.
We would go out. Of course, you would know the speaker went out, the sound will go out. But, say, a thief would come in, somebody could sneak out, but at the door, there is a light.
Then what will happen? We will notice who is coming in. And if we see a suspicious looking person coming in, we will immediately go and stop that person. We will just ask them, who are you? What do you want? Why have you come here? And if, say, there is a child in the home and the child is going out, play on the streets, the child may get in danger.
So, the child going out, he stops the child. So, like that, basically, when it is said, the doors of the body, they are illuminated. What that means is that we are able to see and decide what comes in and what goes out.
So, a Rajasic person or a Tamasic person, they may speak things that they don’t mean, that they don’t even think, and they speak. Now, some people think and speak. Others speak and think.
Actually, others speak still they don’t think, they only make others think. Because what they have said, nobody can make sense of it. There was one author, he used to write very complicated passages.
So, one says one of his poems won an award. At the thought that the committee is supposed to give an award, he said, it’s a very good composition, but what does this mean? Can you explain? So, he looked at it once, he looked at it twice, he looked at it thrice. Then he said, when I wrote it, God and I knew what it meant.
Now, only God knows. So, the point is that sometimes people, they’re just not conscious of what they’re doing. Sometimes it could be creativity and inspiration, but sometimes just recklessness, heartlessness.
So, what comes out, people may not be aware. Or what goes in, people are indiscriminate in eating food sometimes. Some people treat their tongue like a conveyor belt.
They find all kinds of luggage goes down their tongue. So, that is lack of discernment. So, when Krishna is talking about doors are illuminated, what that means is there is a sense of discernment.
Now, discernment is the same as the more politer word nowadays for discrimination. The word discrimination has nowadays got a very negative connotation. Caste discrimination, racial discrimination, gender discrimination.
So, discernment is a politer word for it. And discernment is for the friendship. So, Saptapada is characterised by that awareness.
These kinds of thoughts are coming inside me. So, somebody is talking and sometimes the conversation may start off as constructive, but then the other person starts gossiping. And sometimes you don’t even realise they’re gossiping and you also keep gossiping.
And you keep gossiping, keep gossiping and then after some time you realise, you know, so much garbage I got into my head. Why did I waste so much time? So, if that discernment is there, if suddenly the conversation starts going towards gossip, you just keep going. I don’t want to talk about something else.
I don’t want to talk about the subject. Or you can just excuse us and move on from there. Or if you have a position of authority, you may tell that person to just not talk about it, whatever.
But there is a sense of discernment. So, that is the characteristic of Satyagraha. It has many different characteristics, but this is one of them.
Now, after this, Krishna has a characteristic of Prajnaparamita. That is, let’s look at that verse. So, that lobha is what? Greed.
Krishna says this is the primary characteristic. And then pravrtti means, it’s you can say nature, disposition. So, now it is good to act according to our particular disposition.
But even there, we have to be balanced. In any particular activity that we do, say somebody likes music. Now, yes, they need to do music, but they also have to look at their relationships, their health, the other aspects of their life.
Somebody cannot become manic about it. Somebody likes sports, and sports is good. But sometimes in practising sport, that becomes a mania for them.
And then they are just completely alone. And this is where this only pravrtti, this is what leads to what is today called as alcoholism. Alcoholism is where a person is intoxicated with alcohol.
Alcoholism is where a person is intoxicated by work. This work becomes their way of escaping. They have issues with their family, they have issues with their own mind.
But instead of dealing with those issues, it is their work to escape. So, alcoholism has been called as the prestigious addiction. Normally, somebody has an addiction, the person is looked down upon.
Somebody is alcoholic, drug addict. But somebody is workaholic, how do you work so hard? I have not taken a single leave in the last 20 years. I am always the first to come in office and the last to leave from office.
So, to put it more politely, a workaholic is a moolah. Certainly, the Gita is not accommodating laziness. But it is disproportionate obsession something.
That means this person keeps starting newer and newer things. So, these people are very good at starting new projects, but not completing them. People make newer resolutions.
It is good to make resolutions. But then what happens is, they make, maybe some people make, there is a new resolution at January 1. And by January 30, not only they give up the resolution, they have forgotten the resolutions. Something new comes up, something new comes up, karmana, aarambha, keeps trying new things.
So, then ashamaha spruha. Spruha is desire. So, everyone has desires.
Behind it, there are ashamaha, insatiable desires. And that is where it becomes a problem. Not all desires are actually insatiable.
Let us say somebody gets a desire to eat some halwa. Okay, he will cook some halwa. It is not necessary that just because somebody likes halwa once, they will become a halwa addict.
Every meal they want to eat halwa. And not only every meal they want halwa, they want every meal to be only halwa. So, that does not happen.
So, generally, it is not that every single desire becomes addictive or compulsive. But some desires do become addictive. So, ashamaha spruha is just insatiable desire.
Now, to some extent, insatiable desire does not necessarily have to be a desire that is intrinsically addictive, but it can become addictive. When it becomes addictive, it becomes very destructive. So, now, generally, having desires is a characteristic of rajoguna.
But being completely conquered, controlled by desire, addicted, that is generally a characteristic of tamogha. So, but ashamaha spruha. And you can say, dhrajasya ekanjayate.
That this is the characteristic of rajoguna. When rajoguna becomes prominent, these are the characteristics. So, what are the characteristics of dhrajasya? You can say there are probably four characteristics.
One is more. I want more. That s one thing.
Now, many people may want more. But here the thing is they are ready to work more, but it s work too much. That is workaholism.
And the thing is, okay, I want something, I work for it, I get sober. No. What happens is they work too much, but they keep, they jump to new things.
Take one thing and stick to it and achieve something. So, rajoguna, if they re not slightly having some saptoguna with it, a person cannot stick to one thing. Now, nowadays for people to change jobs is quite natural.
And it s okay. Sometimes you get a better job and you get on more. And then you can have a greater leverage in negotiating with your boss.
And if you have some other job available, then you can ask for better working conditions, more pay or whatever. That s fair enough. But if a person is constantly changing, changing, changing, and then that might make them very restless.
So, if it s thoughtfully done, strategically, that s fair enough. But it s just because a person is restless and that s not a good thing. And then finally, it is insatiable desire.
So, these four are the result of rajoguna. Desire is natural, but insatiable desire. Now, if you consider these things, we will see rajoguna is quite common in today s world.
It s very, very common. And Bhakti Siddhanta Thakur gives a fascinating analysis. He says, in saptoguna, the knowledge acquiring senses are more active.
In rajoguna, the working senses are more active. We have different senses. In saptoguna, a person is alert, taking information to gather understanding.
In rajoguna, what happens? The working sense, I have to do things. So, he says that if you consider the western, west versus the east, east is brought in India. He says, in both, everybody wants progress in life.
But in the west, progress is defined more in terms of karmindriyas, than what do you do. Whereas, in the east, it is more in terms of jnanindriyas. And that s why, in India, philosophy was highly developed.
Philosophy is perceiving and understanding. In the west, technology was more developed. Now, technology is about changing things in the world.
So, in technology also, jnanindriyas are involved. But the primary thing is karmindriyas, what do you do. And these are different value systems.
So, those who are into technology, they are not interested in knowledge for knowledge s sake. They are concerned with knowledge, what change is it bringing about. So, Einstein said, science is a wonderful thing, as long as you don t have to earn a living out of it.
Because what happens, as soon as you have to earn a living out of it, then financial interest is coming. And then, if a research is being done, if you want to accelerate the research, doctor the research so that the theories proved right, a lot of bad science happens. I am not saying all science is bad, but that starts happening.
So, the idea is that progress is there in both worlds. But it is, there are different definitions of progress and success. Satyaguna is more about understanding, whereas Rajyoguna is more about doing, executing, changing.
Now, we will come back to this difference a little later, but let s move on to Tamoguna. So, Krishna defines Tamoguna more in terms of what is not present. Like he says, prakasha is the characteristic of Satyaguna.
Then pravrutti is the characteristic of Rajyoguna. So, he starts by saying that when Tamoguna is more, these things become more. So, what is he describing? Pramada and Moha.
So, what is Pramada? Anyone knows? Madness. And Moha? Illusion. So, now, what is the difference between these three? These are very interesting words.
Let s look at, there is Pramada, there is Moha, and there is Adhyana. Now, we consider, it is not Moha, it is Moha. So, we see, Krishna talks about it, nash, kachidetachitamparth, ekagremchetasa, kachid-adhyanasamoha, pranashtasthedhananjaya.
So, Adhyana and Moha. He says, has your ignorance and illusion been dispelled? So, any thoughts about what is the difference between Adhyana and Moha? Because of Adhyana, Moha can come. Because of Adhyana, Moha can come.
But that still keeps us in Adhyana and Moha about what they mean. It is true. I think it is true.
So, yes? Adhyana means knowledge is not present. And in case of Moha, knowledge may be present, but that person may be blind. Good point.
Adhyana means I don t know. Adhyana is to not know. Moha is to know possibly.
Like say, if we are in the dark, we don t know what is ahead, so we are in Adhyana. But if we are seeing a mirage, then that is not Adhyana, that is Moha. Because illusion involves a form of perception, but the perception is not.
Whereas, Adhyana means there is no perception. I am not seeing anything at all. Now, Pramada is to have certainty about false knowledge.
It is like I am convinced that I am right. So, when Mantra persuaded Kaikeyi, at that time, did Kaikeyi go into Moha or Pramada? Well, you could say it could be either of those. But when she was not ready to listen to anyone else, when Dashrath tried to beg to her, when Sumantra, the minister tried to talk with her, when Vasishtha tried to talk with her, she was not ready to listen to anyone.
She was telling, this is the truth, there is a conspiracy to deprive my son of his kingdom. And I am working for his best interest. And everybody else is either too naive to understand the conspiracy, or everybody else is a part of the conspiracy.
So, that is what? Pramada. So, which is much more difficult to come out of? Pramada. So, here, when we say the mode of ignorance or Tamas.
So, actually, Tamas includes all of these. Tamas is not just ignorance. Tamas is also false perception or it is also like conviction about false perception.
There is a western philosopher who said, the problem with the world is that the wise people are doubtful and the foolish people are super confident. So, the wise people, we say we may believe in God, but we always have doubt, does Krishna really exist? If I get into trouble, will Krishna really protect me? Will my heart really change? We have all these doubts. But, a materialistic person, if I just can get to America, my life will be successful.
If I can just marry this girl, my life will be successful. So, I was in a class in Canada, on reincarnation. And after an Indian boy came, I had a very serious personal question.
I said, okay. So, he said, no, I am in love with a girl, she also wants to marry me. We have been trying for years, but our parents are just not ready.
It’s not working out. I said, I want to know, what can I do, by which I can marry her in my next life. Bollywood has all romanticised the idea of reincarnation.
You may know the movies like Om Shanti Om and others, where the hero and the heroine die, and they come back in the same body. It’s not reincarnation, it is like re-incarnation. In the same incarnation, they are coming back.
That doesn’t happen. But the idea is, people think reincarnation is just a plot twist in a romance story. So, they are so convinced, if I can be with this girl, that will be the success of my life.
And they will go to any ends for that. So, this is Moha. Now, of course, there has to be bond and relationships.
The bond itself is not Moha. But the idea that some person, and being with some person will be the source of all happiness for me. That is a Moha.
And that Moha can go to the level of Brahma. And that’s why when people use the word break up, but there is nothing up, people break down. Most of the times.
So, it’s like, you see, just go mad sometimes. It’s very difficult to break up when somebody is very invested in the relationship. So, Tantra says all these things.
I don’t know. I think I know. And I’m sure I know.
And if you don’t agree with me, it is you who don’t know. So, that is the Moha. And people in the Moha, has been the darkest of the Moha.
They are very difficult to marry. Because they are just so consumed by the certainty of their ideas. It is as if for them.
Krishna later on in the 18th chapter talk about the concept of knowledge in ignorance. It is Jnana in Tamoguna. So, how can there be knowledge in ignorance? Knowledge and ignorance are opposite things.
But that is where if you use the word Tamas, knowledge and ignorance are opposite. So, what happens is, some normally say if I am here, then if my knowledge grows in all directions, then what happens is, the knowledge is growing like this. This is I get a broader understanding of things.
But suppose from here, my knowledge grows only in one direction. That means I’m getting knowledge like this. But I’m not getting any further knowledge.
So, it’s like people have biases. People from this particular community are foolish. But from this particular people are very selfish.
From this particular community, they are very violent. From this profile, they have been manipulative and political. So now, yes, some people may be like that.
But when there is knowledge in the mode of ignorance, we only look for evidence that supports that idea. And we may get more and more cases. These people are like this, these people are like this, these people are like this.
On the other hand, it could be that there are millions of people and we find 100 cases of people who are like that. But then those 100, what about the remaining million? No, I’m sure this is right. It’s knowledge in the mode of ignorance.
So, that’s what it is. Knowledge in Tamoguna means, it’s not that a person is foolish. They’re foolish, but they’re using their intelligence to be foolish.
They’re using their intelligence to hold on to their foolish ideas. So, this is the characteristics of Tamoguna. And sometimes we think of Tamoguna as just dysfunctional and useless.
And yes, there is truth to that. But that is not the only way Tamoguna works. Tamoguna can work in many different ways.
So, after giving these characteristics, we’ll go back to the words that we have recited. But before I do that, let’s deal with another more effects. Sattva, Rajas, Tamas are quite subtle in one sense.
So, for example, there can be an atheist who can actually be living in sattva. Now, sattva means how is that possible? Well, atheism as a philosophy is ignorant. But the atheist lifestyle might be sattva.
The atheist might be truthful, the atheist might be honest, the atheist might be environmentally conscious, the atheist might be helpful, the atheist might be charitable. It’s possible that there can be good people for whatever reason they may have become atheists. Maybe they had some bad experience with the religion.
I was in Texas. For Indians, we think America is Hollywood. But America is a huge country and there’s lots of variety.
So, in fact, among all the countries in the western world, America is the most religious country. The central and southern parts of America are quite Christian, evangelical Christian. In Australia and New Zealand, I was talking with one person over there.
We were talking for quite some time. He asked me, where all do you travel? So, I said, I spent about 3-4 months in America and New Zealand. Oh, America! It’s filled with those religious nuts who elected Trump.
So, for them, America is like a super religious country. England and… and it is true. In the western world, America is the most religious country.
Canada, England, France, they are highly atheistic. Australia and New Zealand also. But anyway, what was I saying? So, I was in Texas and I saw a car.
The car had a bumper sticker. So, evangelicals are Christian preachers who are very aggressive and pushy. They force people to come to the church, force people to read the Bible, force people to become Christians.
So, there was this… it had a slogan on it, a quote, Oh God, please save me from your preachers. So, the Christian idea is God saves us through his preachers. But the preachers are very judgemental, holier-than-thou, condescending, looking down at everyone.
Say, I don’t want to talk to these people. Please save me. So, people may be atheistic because they’ve had a bad experience with religion.
But overall, their life might be harder. So, it’s not a simplistic designation. So, that’s why when you are talking about the modes, the gunas, it’s which guna a person is in may be very difficult to determine because a person may have a composite.
Say, a person’s beliefs might be in tamas. But maybe their speech might be in sattva. Like there are some politicians who are very refined speakers, not just eloquent, very polite and sweet and soothing kind of speakers.
And that’s not just an act. It’s not just a mask that in public they speak like that. Even one-to-one meetings, they will be like that.
But that does not mean that they are very soft and gentle. Maybe in their actions, they might be very power-hungry, greedy, manipulative. So, that could be the poor actors.
So, people could be a combination of things. I said, somebody might be a meat-eater. Now, meat-eating itself, we can say it’s a tamas event.
But that does not mean the entire person’s character is tamas. Somebody might be a meat-eater, but in other areas of their life, they might be kind, they might be charitable. This is a blind spot.
They don’t understand there are killing animals for their food. We cannot define the mode of a person only by one particular act. In fact, the Bhagavatam says even religious people, even devotees can be sattva rajas in tamas.
You say, devotees are transcendental. Yes, devotees have a transcendental home. But in terms of functionality, we all come from a particular background and we have a particular way of functioning.
So, some may come from a sattvic background and that’s how they continue on. Some may come from a rajasic background. It may take some time for them to come to sattva.
Somebody may come from a tamasic background and for them to consume sattva might seem like a huge mountain to them. So, we cannot just take one activity. We cannot just say, I am Chinese, so I am transcendental.
If you think you are transcendental, then people should beware of transcendentalism. So, we have an operational mode. So, it’s nuanced.
Somebody might be very sophisticated in terms of their language. They might be very advanced at literature, but their whole worldview might be very tamasic. There are many activists.
In India, it’s not that much of an issue, but in the West, abortion is a very big issue. There is a pro-choice lobby and pro-life lobby. Pro-choice making that the women should have the choice.
Nobody else should interfere. It is the woman’s choice. Society has nothing to do with it.
But pro-life is, they say, it’s not a woman’s issue. It’s a humanity’s issue because it’s a human child that is there in the womb. So, life should be emphasised.
So, either way, I initially, I think for people who support abortion, they don’t understand that actually it’s killing a child. But over a period of time, there is a lot of knowledge in the world of ignorance or even intelligence in the world of ignorance. People have such perverted ideas.
In the West, the feminism has become very aggressive. The feminism itself has had many generations. First, it was that women should at least be allowed to inherit property.
Women should have custody rights for their children. That is the first generation feminism. Then women should be allowed to do jobs which they can do.
That was the second generation feminism. Then women should be able to do all kinds of jobs. They should be allowed to do all kinds of jobs.
Third generation. Fourth generation is women are better than men at everything and all the problems in the world are because men are in power. If men just become humble and start listening to women, all the problems in the world will be solved.
So, this is the fourth generation feminism. This is quite toxic. So, now, here what has happened is women are educated or miseducated to actually think that marriage and motherhood are all traps.
And you cannot, you, men don’t want you to grow in careers and that’s why they get you to have children and then you are stuck at home. So, in a traditional society, if a woman does not have a child, it’s a sad thing. If a man does not have a child, it’s a sad thing.
But for a woman, it’s especially very destabilising. Women have an actual nurturing nature. Everybody has different needs.
One of the big needs we have is the need to be needed. We all have a need that my existence matters to someone other than me. My existence is vitally important for someone else.
And that need to be needed is addressed by becoming a parent. And everyone has that need. Women have that nurturing need a lot more than men.
So, normally, somebody is a childless woman. But in the West, they have the idea, I’m not a childless woman. I’m a child-free woman.
As if a child is a burden or a bondage. Thank goodness your mother didn’t think like that. But this idea, it has gone to such a level that Prabhupada would say that if there is unrestricted male-female union, then what happens is the woman becomes pregnant and the man goes away.
And the woman has to bear, has to beg to the state for support. And the woman becomes very troubled. Parenting is a full-time job for two parents.
A single parent, those who do it, it’s very, very difficult. So, the thing is, at least to a certain extent, the burden of procreation falls disproportionately on women. A man just has one-time indulgence and the woman becomes pregnant for eight, nine months.
So, what the Tamasic, now the Sattvic understanding of this is that, okay, we should become responsible. That sexual indulgence should be in a responsible dharmic relationship for raising children. So, that’s the Sattvic understanding.
Rajasic understanding is that you try to sneak in and try to do something and that you hope that there’s no pregnancy. And then people want to enjoy that responsibility. But Tamasic idea over here is that nature itself is unfair to women.
That why are men allowed to get away from having sex and women are not allowed to get away? Nature is unfair. So, there is this whole book, not a whole book, a whole book on this topic, how pregnancy is biological slavery for women and abortion is technological liberation. So, that’s why their idea is abortion is a fundamental right for women.
And what nature has created as trouble for us, the technology of abortion is the fear from that trouble. And that’s why on Facebook and Instagram and the rest of the world, there is, it’s like we may tell stories of how I came to Krishna Consciousness. So, women tell stories how I did my abortion.
Leave alone being something to be embarrassed about, I came as a child. This is how I did my abortion. The whole society was condemning, but I don’t care for society.
So, this is Tamoguna gone down to the level of, you could say, ideology. So, in this ideology, what happens is, they say that womanhood is completely separate from motherhood. That to equate womanhood with motherhood is just to trap a woman into one role and take away her father.
That’s why in the West, even industrialised women don’t like this address, Mataji. They say, you are restricting us to a particular role in life. There’s one devotee, she’s not a feminist, but she’s quite aggressive.
She says, if anybody calls you Mataji, I won’t call you Pitaji. So, now, the problem is that many women, they may pursue their careers, but actually women are much more relational than men. Even with this complete autonomy, women will choose careers where they can interact more with people.
Generally, men go into engineering much more. Women go more into medicine, more women go more into nursing. Women go more into occupations where they can interact with men.
So, everybody needs relationships, but the relational need is much more in women. And by the age of 35, 40, 45, many of these women are profoundly unhappy because they prioritise their career over marriage and have children. They become very lonely and they have a lot of mental health problems.
So, the thing is that, we’re not blaming the women over here. I’m just giving this as an example of knowledge in the mode of ignorance and intelligence in the mode of ignorance, where what is a traditional conventional understanding is completely perverted. It’s completely perverted.
And there are always cynical women who, not cynical women, cynical men, there are always men who are manipulative, cynical, who exploit these things. So, women have these tendencies and if women start believing these things, men start exploiting them. And the result of it is complete chaos in society.
So, in the West, there was a 1960s roundabout and 40s, 50s, 100s and just kind of all that. What they call as the sexual revolution. Sexual revolution is the idea that all traditional standards of sexual restraint are not just old-fashioned, but they are bad.
They’re bad and they should be given up. They should be rejected. So, Tamoguna has become very, very dark.
Now, people want relationships, but people also want to enjoy. So, now, I’ll just conclude with two points before Tamoguna becomes so dark. Tamoguna is not just inactivity.
Tamoguna can be very intellectually done destructive. So, now in the West, there is this whole concept of open marriage. What is the idea of open marriage? That the husband and the wife, they say, you can see other people.
The husband can have physical relationship with other woman, the wife can have physical relationship with other woman. Well, then what is the point of marriage? Open marriage. Both of them agree to each other and it just, the marriage becomes very boring.
There’s one American comedian who said that, you know, my wife and I, we drive in different cars, we eat at different tables, we watch different TVs, we live in different groups. We are doing everything possible to keep our marriage together. What is left of that marriage, isn’t it? It has become a completely hollow thing and Tamoguna, in that sense, is extremely dark and destructive.
So, Tamoguna is not just unintelligent. It can use intelligence for a destructive purpose. So, Tamoguna is associated with destruction.
As I said, we talked earlier about these things, Tamoguna, there’s Pramada, madness. Madness doesn’t have to be just like momentary madness. It can almost be like permanent madness where it’s ideologically justified.
Now, the second point I want to make is that Bhagavatam says religion can also be tamasic. So, when we talk about fanaticism, fanaticism, Krishna defines knowledge in ignorance, knowledge in tamas. What does he say? He gives many things about it and they seem to make one thing into everything.
So, with respect to the whole abortion thing, that a woman has a right to have free sexual indulgence the way a man can have. Nobody can have it free. Everybody has consequences.
But, if that is the most important thing, then everything coming in the way is a bad thing. Now, the capacity of a woman to bear a child is not a bad thing. It’s a privilege.
It’s a special privilege given to women in the nature of only to women, not to men. But, that is serious. So, when somebody takes one thing and makes it into everything, that is Tamoguna.
That is the character of knowledge in the mode of ignorance, in Tamoguna. So, this is also the characteristic of fanaticism. Fanaticism means basically that what works for me.
So, this works for me. What works for me is the only thing that can work for anyone. So, if worshipping this particular God in this particular way is what works for me, that is the only thing that can work for anyone.
And if anybody else is doing anything different, then those people are finished. Those people are evil. So, once a person in Los Angeles, there is a well-known bridge and they pass from that bridge, people who jumped out and it was a suicide.
So, there is one person standing on that bridge about to jump out. And another person goes, hey, please don’t jump out. I said, why? Why do you want to end your life? Nobody cares for me.
Nobody loves me. Nobody will even know if I exist or die. This person walking by says, but Jesus loves you.
I said, are you a Christian? He said, yes, of course. I said, do you? He said, yes, I am also a Christian. Then this person is walking towards closer and closer and he says, which Christian am I? He said, he is a Catholic or Protestant? He said, he is a Christian.
He said, I am a Protestant. I said, okay, which Protestant am I? He said, I am a Methodist. I am a Baptist.
How good, I am also a Baptist. Which Baptist am I? He said, I am a Southern Baptist. How good, I am also a Southern Baptist.
Which Southern Baptist am I? He said, I am a Reformed Southern Baptist. Jump down and die, you faithless person. So, the idea is that in Baptists, Baptists is a group in Christianity, in Protestants.
So, among Baptists, there is a traditional Baptist and Reformed Baptist, they call it. Orthodox Baptists and Reformed Baptists. And the Reformed Baptists, they have made some adjustments according to time, place and purpose.
Orthodox say that all those adjustments are deviations. And they are all good. So, every Christian denomination think that, and if not every, many, they think that anybody not following our particular way of Christianity, they are going to go to hell.
So, fanaticism, it has really very little to do with religion. It is a Thomastic mentality imposed on religion. That Thomastic mentality can come anywhere.
It can come like an abortion, it can come. In communism, there is also a Thomastic mentality. Anybody who opposes the state, that person is evil and that person should be killed.
In communism, the idea was that anybody who has got wealth, that person must have exploited and manipulated people, that is why they have got wealth. That is possible, but it is also possible that that person is talented, that person is committed and they have earned the money, isn’t it? But their idea is all wealthy people are evil. So, in Ukraine, what they did was, under communism, all the wealthy farmers were there, the mobs pounced on them and killed them or just sent them off as prisoners to Siberia and the government supported it.
And then this happened in 1920s, late 1920s. So, eventually what resulted was one of the biggest famines because the people who got all those farms, they were neither expert nor hard working. And farming is not simple.
If you are not ready to work hard, you don’t know what to plant when. And all these committed people were just talented, committed people that were killed or imprisoned. Result was devastation.
So, can wealth come because of exploitation? Of course, it can come. But does that mean all wealth does come because of exploitation? No. So, to equate one thing with everything, that can be done by anyone.
So, nowadays, there is a whole spectre of religious violence and that is true. But communism was atheistic. And communism in China and Russia, in China and USSR, actually without any wars, the government itself killed a hundred million people.
The First World War and Second World War combined, the toll was probably about 30-40 million. So, more than both of them combined together. So, any ideology where a person becomes narrow-minded, this way is the only way, my idea is the only idea, that is fanaticism.
And all comes with the term Tamoguna. So, Tamoguna has two different aspects, exclusivism and extremism. So, exclusivism is a thought or ideas.
My way is the only way. Only if you worship my God, then you are going to go to hell. No, only if you worship my God, you are going to go to heaven.
And if you are not worshipping my God, you are going to go to hell. And thoughtful people always say, my God, actually they hear such an idea. Isn’t it? Now, extremism takes whatever thoughts into action.
Extremists are actually much kinder. They say, anyway you are going to go to heaven. So, why delay it? So, this is, now we can ascribe it to religion and we can say this religion is fanatical and but that is a non-philosophical religion.
Philosophically, what we need to see is that this kind of fanaticism is the problem. And fanaticism is a result of Tamoguna. I was in an interfaith conference in Washington, where they were doing a lot of dialogues over there.
They said, in India, we are the majority religion. So, we don’t feel any need for support from anyone else. But in the western world, we are the minority religion.
So, we are going to engage in many interfaith dialogues. So, that we are also, if there is a problem, we get support of the Rajasthani faith community. I was talking, after that I was talking with one Muslim cleric and we had a nice discussion and he told me that it’s easier for me to have meaningful discussions with moderates of other traditions than extremists of my own tradition.
So, that was a very insightful statement, I thought, that in every tradition, there will be people in Satmoguna, there will be people in Rajasthani, there will be people in Tamoguna. In every group, it will be there. That is just the nature.
And quite often, people in Rajasthani will be more, people in Tamoguna will be there, people in Satmoguna will be there. But the real question is, who are in power? If people in Satmoguna are in power, or at least they have authority, they have influence in the west. Even if people in Rajasthani are in power, that’s also okay.
But Rajasthani, what happens is, I want prosperity, maybe I want more than you. But we understand that Rajasthani people don’t want mutually assured destruction. If I try to destroy you, you will destroy me.
I just need to end this war. So, people don’t…Rajasthani, at least, Rajasthani is not associated with constant wars. That is Tamoguna.
That’s why I mentioned earlier that although there have been long wars going on, no one has used nuclear weapons till now. That is a good thing. So, that’s because there is at least that level of Tamoguna has not come up.
Rajasthani is there, but Rajasthani at least has an instinct of preservation. If I try to destroy you, it’s quite likely you will destroy me. Not now, in future when you get strength.
So, to some extent, live and let live. Not because I don’t like you, but because it’s a fact of life. So, the Tamoguna is very much active in this world, in terms of fanaticism, extremism, which can come in religious versions, which can come in non-religious versions also.
In India itself, this leftist ideology is very widespread. The leftist ideology, it holds that the essence of Hinduism is the discriminatory caste system. And there was one South Indian leftist leader.
He said that he basically was stealing from a European leader who said something similar. He said, India will not know peace till the last Kshatriya has been strangled with the intestines of the last Brahmana. So, can you imagine how much bitterness must be there in this? They think that Kshatriyas and Brahmanas are the cause of exploitation of the lower castes.
And therefore, every Kshatriya and every Brahmana should be dead. So, these kinds of ideologies are not uncommon. A few months ago, there was one Tamil leader who said that Sanatana Dharma is like COVID, like malaria, like an infectious, toxic disease.
And then he was criticising. He said, I am not criticising all other Hindus. Sanatana Dharma is a discriminatory caste system.
Sanatana Dharma has so many different things to it. And yes, was the caste system discriminatory? Yes, it was terribly discriminatory at times. But discrimination is just an unfortunate fact of human nature.
If that discrimination had been so bad, how did the lower caste survive for so long? Why did the lower caste stay within Hinduism for so long? There are always so many options. Buddhism and Jainism came thousands of years ago, almost 2000 years ago. Christianity, Islam are providing alternatives.
People are still getting something within the Vedic tradition. And if you consider discrimination, you see that when the British went to America and Australia, their natives living over there, the natives are practically being eliminated now. They are non-existent.
There are just some reserves, like you have animals kept in zoos. So, these natives live in certain reserve areas. They are just a tiny number.
So, the lower castes were never eliminated. In fact, nowadays, we don’t even use the word lower caste because that is considered a discriminatory word. So, the non-Brahminical caste, that’s the word that’s used sometimes.
But the point is, to reduce all Sanatana Dharma in its profundity and richness, to what? To just the discriminatory caste system. And even within that, untouchability. So, this is what it has to be destroyed.
It’s a horrible thing to do. And this is not, actually speaking, if we are talking for politics, caste would have become largely a relevant factor in the after-independence. Those political vote banks, they emphasise caste.
Now, of course, caste is also considered in marriages. But that’s more a matter of, it’s not so much a matter of discrimination as it is a tool used for judging compatibility. Now, whether it is a reliable tool or not, that’s a different issue.
But the idea is if somebody is born in the same caste, then it is likely that people feel that those people have similar values. But even inter-caste marriages are becoming very common nowadays. So, to reduce all this complexity to just this one thing.
In Silicon Valley, it happened that there was some Brahmin and Brahmin boss in an IT company. I think it was Google or one of the top companies. He had an employee who was a Shudra.
And nobody cares. I don’t know. I mean, I was in J.B. College.
We didn’t even know what was Google or not. There was more of regional consciousness and caste consciousness. Oh, this is a Bengali, this is South Indian, this is Maharashtrian, this is Nihari.
We had more regional groups and castes. Is it like that here also? I mean, how many people really know also which caste somebody is from? We don’t really care so much, especially in urban settings. So, anyway, what happened was this person complained.
The Shudra, there was some promotion was there. And this employee, both of them are IT engineers. The Shudra complained that he did not promote me because I am a Shudra.
And it became a huge issue. See, the left-wing media has a lot of control in society. So, they made a big issue.
Oh, casteism, the evil of India has come to the West. And this is how they are trying to brand. Some people are trying to brand, Prabhupada.
This Swami Prabhupada, he wants to revive the discriminatory caste system all over the world. Prabhupada wanted to restore Vanashra. That is not very different.
But anyway, so then they did some big investigation. And some simple facts were overlooked by the media. See, the person who was promoted instead of him by this Brahmana manager was also a Shudra.
So, when he was not promoted, it was simply based on merit. There was no caste issue over there. But acknowledging ignorance will reduce everything.
Oh, you did not promote me? Because I am from this district. And everybody jumps on that bandwagon and just creates problems. So, the Tamasic consciousness can actually cause unnecessary disruption in families, in communities, in countries.
In that sense, Tama Guna has to be avoided. So, I will summarise what we discussed today. We tried to understand the modes.
So, Krishna described the modes, the Gunas, not in terms of ontology, what they are, but much more in terms of functionality, what they do. So, within that, we discussed a little bit about how each of these modes, they have their characteristics. So, sattva is characterised by discernment.
The senses are illuminated with knowledge. So, in sattva, we are more concerned with the knowledge senses, knowledge acquiring senses, jnana, indriyas. In Indriyas, that is what we consider as problems.
Then we discussed about rajas. Rajas is characterised by basically too much desire and too much work. So, the good thing about Tamas is that these people are working, they are not just living.
But Krishna says, because it is all excess, it leads to dukkha. So, we will see in the West, there is a lot of material progress, but at the mental level, there is a lot of distress. So, here only working senses and at that level, what is the knowledge that we are acquiring, that is discussed.
So, here through knowledge senses, philosophy develops. Here, technology develops. The last one, we spent a lot of time on was Tamas.
So, in Tamas, we discussed, it can be three levels, avjana, moha, pramana. So, avjana is I don’t know, moha is I think I know and pramana is I am certain that I know. So, then we discussed as an example of pramana, intelligence in Tamas, knowledge in Tamas, both of these.
So, what is it? When a person arrives at conclusions opposite to what is real. So, I discussed how abortion is seen as technological liberation. This is such a Tamasic way of looking at things.
Then we discussed also, this is you could say materialism, in materialism. Then in communism, wealth is seen as equated with exploitation. Anybody has gone wealthy, they must have exploited.
So, communism, it is that they claim that they are having compassion towards the poor. That is why you take wealth from the wealthy and give it all to the poor, distributedly poor. But what they have is not compassion towards the poor, it is more envy towards the wealthy.
And what happens in communism is that those who are going to redistribute the wealth, will take wealth from the wealthy and give it to the poor. Those who are going to redistribute the wealth, they keep a lot of the wealth. And that is why there is one social commentary that says communism, all people are equal, but some are more equal than others.
And then we came to talk about how this can happen within religion also, where what works for me is the only thing that works for everyone else. Fanaticism, we discussed that in exclusivism in thought and extremism in action. So, it is tamo guna, especially not just in the passive madness, but tamo guna when it uses the intelligence, when it uses knowledge for a tamasic end.
That is why the gunas is determined not just by the activity, but primarily by the mentality. So, tamo guna is not just laziness and illusion. A person who is just spending all day watching TV and just sitting on potato, sitting on coach and eating potato chips and becoming like a coach potato.
That person is tamasic, but that person is only destroying themselves. But a person who has tamasic ideology, that means they have intelligence, they have knowledge, then they are using their intelligence for tamasic purposes. That kind of people are very religious.
Thank you very much. It depends on three things. You can say certain foods have intrinsically certain qualities, but it also depends on the quantity of the food that you eat.
So, some food may be salty, when somebody eats it too much, then that excessive eating can be rajasic or even tamasic. So, the guna of food is determined by which food it is, by how much it is eaten, and also with what kind of people, in what context it is eaten. That can also be determined.
So, somebody can eat, maybe they are eating just nice natural food, but it’s in a tamasic environment. Tamasic environment will give a tamasic influence to that food. So, it depends on all these factors.
Sometimes we may take prasad, but we might just be gulping it down, gulping it down. So, that mode of eating can be tamasic. Yes, please.
Q. How can we check and balance that we are not going to the world of ignorance by eating? A. Yes, it’s a valid concern. Generally, that danger is always there, when somebody is getting religious education, that they can become very self-righteous, and Mahadeva is the only way. So, Prabhupada was quite careful about that.
Prabhupada did say that ultimately, arthritic is love of God. So, when Christians asked Prabhupada, what do you think about Jesus? Prabhupada said, He’s a guru. He’s ready to give up his life for the service of God.
Such a person who has so much love, the person whom we can learn from, he’s a guru. So, Prabhupada was quite broad-minded. So, the idea is that we, based on our particular mode, may gravitate even within Shastra, on certain sections of Shastra.
So, I know devotees, I’ve talked with them, and they say, oh, these kind of statements Prabhupada only made for PR purposes. Actually, one cannot go back to Jesus, go back to God. It’s only by the mercy of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
Some devotees say that you will not go back to Krishna, even if you’re worshipping Narayana. You will not go back to the spiritual world, you’re worshipping Narayana, you’re worshipping Ram. It is preposterous with that opinion.
That’s not our philosophy. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, he has both examples. There were followers of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and then there’s South India too.
There’s one devotee who’s a Ram Bhakta, he’s chanting Ram’s names by the influence of Mahaprabhu Saraswati Krishna’s names. There’s another devotee who’s a Ram Bhakta, and he was in great agony that how could Ravana give that Sita, Sita is the Goddess of Fortune. And then Mahaprabhu was so touched by it, Mahaprabhu in his later travelling, he found a Purana and he was told about how, actually what Ravana took was not Sita but Maya Sita.
And Mahaprabhu went back with that, with a copy of that Purana to show it to him. He didn’t tell him, oh you’re worshipping Ram, that is wrong, you’re worshipping Krishna. So, there is a lot of broad-mindedness, there are many broad-minded realities in our tradition.
But sometimes, if we are in a particular mode, we will go towards those statements which resonate with our movement. And by that what happens is, we can come up with narrow-mindedness. So, in the first generation of our movement, we have many exalted devotees and leaders, but there are also some people who came from say a Christian background, and they basically replaced Jesus with Prabhupada.
So, Jesus is the only way, Prabhupada is the only way. So, there is a danger that is everywhere. We have to be aware of that.
So, in general, if we look at the overall body of Prabhupada’s teachings, and of Christian teachings, Krishna doesn’t say, my way is the only way. He says, mamavartman vartante manushyaha pada sarvajya. All people are on my path, Krishna says.
But mam ekam sarvam vraja is more that focus on love of God. It is not necessarily focus on a particular path to love of God. Krishna is saying religious rituals are not as important as love of God in that particular context.
So, I would say that one of our principles is aman inaman ekam. So, if we are becoming very self-righteous, there are two things. There is being self-righteous means, I am right and you are wrong.
Not only I am right and you are wrong, I am good and you are bad. There is another word is self-congratulatory. Self-congratulatory means what? Like I am also patting myself, shabash, shabash, how good you are, how good you are, you are also a wonderful person.
So, people who are self-congratulatory, they are quite easy to go towards Prabhupada. So, now, we want to have confidence that the path we are following is right. And then, of course, we should cultivate the confidence.
But the point is we need to understand that Krishna is not the property of his God. Krishna is not the property of any religious group. All religions are meant for God.
God is not meant for any particular religion. God is far bigger than the religions and the religious paths that we pursue. So, once we have that understanding, then we can have that attitude of humility.
Okay? Good question. Any last question? Yes, please. How do we reach to super-confident foolish? How do we reach to super-confident foolish? Or more better, how do we talk to them because they want benefits? Yeah, I think we have to let them learn first in the school of hard knocks.
In the school of hard knocks, it’s like they said. So, generally speaking, people need to have some receptive. That’s why, at least in my research, I found people who are atheists actually are more receptive than people who are, say, Christians.
Not all Christians, there are Christians also. Some Satyug Christians I have seen. I have hardly seen any Satyug Christians in India.
I am not saying they are not there, but what happens in India, they often, if they have converted now or they converted previously, then they are defensive, aggressive about their faith. They are not introspective. And that’s why it’s very difficult to have a meeting for dialogue.
So, I have met Satyug Christians also, but in general, the Christians on the streets, if you meet them, if they are evangelical, then it’s more fruitful to talk with the wall than to talk with them. It just goes into the head. Of course, at least we can talk with them.
If you go to Islamic countries, you cannot even talk with them. So, we have a lot of devotees in the Middle East, but it is, all our bhakti practises in the Middle East are private. And inside our room, devotees from Rathyathara are over there.
Rathyathara, they’ll have the biggest hall in the country. And indoors, we have Rathyathara. No public practise of any religion other than Bhagavad Gita.
So, if people are very convinced about their way, then it’s just that we let it go. There’s not much point in talking with them. Basically, like I mentioned, we have to find something of interest.
This is scripture. Do you remember the diagram I told you about? Audience interest. So, if the audience only interest is in proving that we are wrong.
See, fanatical Christians, they don’t just think that fanatical Christians or fanatical Muslims, they don’t just think that we are going to go to hell. They in fact consider that all other gods, they don’t consider. We may say Krishna and Christ are the same thing.
Krishna and Christ and Allah are the same thing. They say, no, Allah is the only true God. And all other gods, they consider all other gods are false gods.
False gods means they are the shaitan, the satan who is pretending to be God. And that’s why they have this whole history of destroying temples and desecrating temples. Because their idea is that for the glory of the one true God to be established, all false gods are to be destroyed.
And they, according to them, there is a special hell reserved for those who are preachers of false gods. So, it’s very difficult. If somebody is really very convinced about their way, then just be polite with them and let them go their way.
Who knows, later on, they may become more open. Generally, whenever we are engaging with anyone, we have to think what is the purpose of the engagement. If that person is only going to become more aggressive and antagonistic, then there’s not much use of engaging.
So, in tomorrow’s session, we will… So, yesterday, Guna’s discussion was much more at a conceptual level. Today, it was much more at a sociological level. Tomorrow, we’ll discuss at a more personal and psychological level, how the Gunas affect us and how can we move forward from the effect of the lower modes towards the higher modes.
Thank you very much.