Krishna’s love Realize Reciprocate Relish Part 3 Hg Chaitanya Charan Prabhuji

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
So, tam eva sharanam gacchati. Surrender to that Lord.
How? Wholeheartedly. By the mercy of that Lord, what will happen? You will attain the supreme happiness. Along with that, you will also attain So basically, here Krishna is telling that the previous verse was that the Lord is in control.
He is in our hearts. So, transcendence, that’s the element which we are going to discuss today. What it means essentially is, we’ll talk about this in three broad steps, that when we talk about Krishna’s plan, do Krishna’s plan.
It is Krishna’s plan when we say, how do I know what is Krishna’s plan? Isn’t it? We should always do Krishna’s plan. If we don’t do Krishna’s plan, we’ll be doomed. We’ll be confused.
We’ll be lost. When we ask Krishna, what is Krishna’s plan? Oh, Krishna’s plan is very difficult to know. So it seems very perverse at one level.
I mean, if we don’t do Krishna’s plan, we’ll be lost. But knowing Krishna’s plan is very difficult. So Krishna’s plan is more like a direction rather than a path.
What I mean by this is, that Krishna’s plan, it is more like a a general way Krishna wants us to function. Why do we say it’s a direction rather than a path? We’ll talk about multiple aspects over here. Say, consider a parent.
I travel across the world many times, especially outside India, when we have people who have become devotees or want to become devotees or even general Hindus, when I meet them, they are very concerned about their children. And the children may go off in the wrong direction because in general, there are temptations everywhere, but in the western world, the temptations are much more. And the temptations are much more severe also.
In India, the temptation might be my daughter may get involved with some some boy, or my son may get involved with some girl. In the western world, my daughter may become a boy. Or my son may become a girl.
So, actually, in North America, it is that transgender surgery, you can change your body, your gender by doing operations and taking medicines and everything. Not only can people do that, but they consider it that the child has a right to do that and the parents have no right to stop the child from doing that. Because if the parents stop, that means the parents are biassed.
The parents are narrow-minded and bigoted. And there are cases where the child wants to do it, but the parent opposes it. Then the child is taken away from the parents.
You are unfit parents. And at least I know 2-3 devotees who just left America and came to India because their child got affected by this. No.
Because in India, that kind of laws are not there. But the thing is, there are dangers everywhere. sometimes when they ask, sometimes they have a lot of concerns about their children.
And if I talk with the children, the children are often quite intelligent. But they are quite thoughtful, intelligent, but they are also into a particular way of living. They don’t want to practise.
So then I asked the parents, if you could replace your child with a perfectly obedient robot, which looks just like your child, would you want that? What do you think? Many parents say, if I can have an additional robot, that’s nice. But I don’t want to replace my child. Because there is no love and reciprocation between the robot and the person.
So while parents want their children to obey them, the parents also want the children to grow up to be good humans. They don’t want to take away the free will of the child. They want the child to use the free will well.
So what applies to human parents also applies to a divine parent. When we surrender to Krishna, it is not that Krishna wants to take our free will away. Krishna wants that we use our free will properly.
So if Krishna had wanted just somebody who would obey him, Krishna could have made a robot. Krishna could have made millions of robots who would always obey him. Krishna wants the reciprocation of love.
So that means Krishna’s plan is more of, say, this is the material world, and we are here. So Krishna’s plan, you could say, is more like a direction. He wants us to come to him.
And he wants us to function in this world so that we can come closer to him. So it’s more like a direction which he wants us to go. It’s not necessarily a specific, narrow path.
If you don’t know this, you’re lost. Many people ask this, especially among young people who are of a marriageable age. Does everybody have their life partner arranged by God? Now, if you think about it, you have a pure logical perspective.
So if God has arranged, then what happens? If one person makes a different choice, then it’s a domino effect. All of the choices go wrong. Isn’t it? So many people ask, do we have a soulmate? Have I got a soulmate? Somebody’s a mate not just for my body, but my soul, the idea is.
So do we have a soulmate, people ask. So I tell them, you can worry about the mate first, first understand the soul. First try to understand who you really are, and then you can find out a proper relationship that will work for you.
So the idea that God wants to micro-control us, or rather surrender or doing God’s will, is like one narrow direction. Only if you go in this direction, then you’re doing God’s will. If not, you’re lost.
It’s not like that. Krishna has given each one of us individuality, and he wants us to use our individuality. So the Lord’s plan is more of a direction rather than a specific narrow path.
In the spiritual world, when the gopis cook for Krishna, it is not that every single day Krishna sends a menu every day. You know, make this sabji, and make this sweet, and make this, and make this, and make this. The gopis know what Krishna likes, and the gopis know what they can do, and then they feel inspired and they cook certain things for Krishna.
And they make garlands. The gopis have their individuality, and they use their individuality. The Pandavas are all pure devotees, but each of the Pandavas is a complete individual in their own right.
It’s not that because they have to be devotees, they have to be Xerox copies of each other, or they don’t have to be clones of each other. So this is a build-up on the previous point only, but broadly speaking, Krishna’s plan is more like a direction rather than a specific choice. So right now I’m speaking, if I speak one sentence, or I speak another sentence, I want to convey the same point.
Now, is it that if I want to be serving Krishna, every single word that I speak, it has to be dictated to my Krishna? I have heard from my spiritual masters, I have heard in my Shastra, I use my intelligence in speaking. Prabhupada said that his books are written by Krishna. Krishna dictated to him.
That’s true. At the same time, Krishna is present in Prabhupada’s books. Does that mean Prabhupada is not present in Prabhupada’s books? What do you think? Is it only Krishna present and Prabhupada is not present? If that were the case, then why did Prabhupada not write the book’s author as Krishna or why did he write himself as the author? Isn’t it? It’s a human-divine partnership.
It’s a human-divine cooperation. The thoughts, the words, the ideas, they come from Krishna. The specific words, the specific examples, there is always the individuality is there.
So, there is a direction that we get from Krishna. And what is the direction? Broadly speaking, as I mentioned in today’s situation, today’s morning class, when Krishna told Arjuna, the wise people act in ways that make things better. The unwise people act in ways that make things worse.
So, when we want to do Krishna’s plan, Krishna’s plan is more like a direction. Now, when we say, okay, in the direction, so, direction of raising the consciousness, direction of bringing about our individuality, sorry, our specific gifts that Krishna has given us. Now, when this is there, broadly speaking, Krishna would want us to become more selfless, not more selfish.
Krishna would want us to become more, having more selfless attitude and less of a possessive attitude. That way, broadly we can say that Krishna is, Krishna’s plan is more like a direction. Now, having said that, so, that direction will get some understanding from our seniors, from our guides, from our teachers, and we move forward in that direction.
At the same time, it is our life, it’s our decisions we have to make. But we take the guidance and we make decisions. So, after that, the next thing is that when we are trying to act according to Krishna’s plans, it is not that, Krishna’s plan is not just about what happens to us.
That is definitely there. But Krishna’s plan is about what we do. If you consider surrender, there are two distinct examples of surrender.
One is Draupadi. So, when did Draupadi surrender especially? Yes, during the Asat Sabha, in the gambling match. So, at that time, she raises her arms in helplessness.
Krishna, I depend on you. That is surrender. At the end of the Bhagavad Gita, in 1866, Krishna tells Arjuna, surrender.
And Arjuna says, yes, I will surrender to you. What is Arjuna’s surrender? Does Arjuna raise his hands? Does he raise his arms? Yes, he does. But, he raises his arms.
He is Dhamishya. He also has arms. That is weapons.
So, Draupadi and Arjuna, both of them surrender. But, their surrender is very different. This is, accept Krishna’s will.
Okay, Krishna, this is what you want to happen. I will accept it. But, Arjuna is more of accept the responsibility to do Krishna’s will.
Krishna, you want this fight to happen. You want me to play a part in it. I will play my part.
So, Krishna’s will, like earlier in the morning I mentioned, that things happen to us and things happen through us. So, Krishna’s will can be both. Sometimes something happens to us and we accept those things.
Sometimes we need to act to change things. And that happens through us. So, sometimes people think, if you become surrendered, you just become very passive and you are not doing anything.
That is not the idea of surrender. Yes, sometimes we have to gracefully accept what has happened. So, this is where the idea of destiny and other things come in.
So, this is basically what we are talking about is that dual forms of surrender. Dual means two forms of surrender are there. So, I will talk about three Ds over here.
Krishna’s will is more like a direction, not a specific path. And on that path, sometimes we have to make choices. So, many times, like in the previous part also I made that.
Sometimes something is happening to us. Like in the morning class I was telling that sometimes you tolerate, sometimes me. Then there are three options.
Tolerate, mitigate, emigrate. So, I will talk about three things. Now, in one sense, tolerate is more like this is happening, just live with it.
And mitigate or emigrate is where God’s will is happening to me, it is through me. So, God wants me to walk away from here. Or God wants me to stand and fight over here.
So, which is the right thing to do? One of my godbrothers was in Mumbai about 25 years ago. I think in 2007 or something, maybe a little earlier than that actually. There were these big riots that happened in Mumbai.
On one day, 24 bombs or something exploded. So, there were many riots going on. So, he was here in Saffron.
He had gone for a programme. And he was coming from the programme and he was carrying Bhagavad Gita. And he saw a group of rioteers running around and they saw him in Saffron and started charging towards him.
So, he just dropped the books and ran. And he ran and ran and somehow he survived. And then afterwards, he talked with our spiritual master.
He said that, Maharaj, there I had gone and given a class. He said, we are not the body, we are the soul. But then when there was a danger to my body, I ran away.
So, was I did I do the right thing? Was I not living the philosophy? What should I have done in such a situation? So, the spiritual master said, it depends on your consciousness. If you accept that what is happening is Krishna’s will, you must accept it. If that is your consciousness, you can accept it.
But if you think that, there is a lot of service I want to do for my spiritual master, for Prabhupada, for Krishna and for that purpose, my body is my tool. And I want to protect this body so that I can serve Krishna better. Then that is also, that is not running, that is not living the philosophy.
That is not cowardice. It is understanding what is the reason behind the action. Just because I am not the body doesn’t mean I just let my body be destroyed.
So, surrender can mean, somebody can have a lot of faith and just stay there only. In one sense, if you see Prahlad, whatever was happening to him, what Hiranyakashipu was doing, Prahlad accepted that. But, if you consider when Arjuna was being attacked, Arjuna fought back in the Kurukshetra war or before that also, many places.
So, surrender can take many different forms. Sometimes, generally speaking, how do we know which way to surrender? Broadly speaking, in our life, there are two kinds of things. There are things in our control and there are things beyond our control.
So, for the things in our control, we need to accept the responsibility. For things beyond our control, we need to accept the situation. So, when I started giving classes about 30 years ago, once a devotee had given me a list of 10 guidelines on how to speak for Krishna.
The last point was depend on Krishna. But, there is a long dash depend on Krishna, but only after you have prepared your class. Isn’t it? if I say I depend on Krishna, I don’t prepare at all.
That will simply be irresponsible. So, if I come for a class, then what is in my control is how will I organise my thoughts or how my thoughts are flowing. That is what I can control.
So, I try to control that. But then, after a class, there are question and answers. In between, there are question and answers.
I can’t control that. So, I need to be able to accept that. Okay, these kind of questions may come on.
Sometimes, I may not be able to answer well. Sometimes, I may not be able to answer well. So, the idea is that surrender is in different forms in different situations.
In the Bhagavad Gita, the surrender that Krishna asks for Arjuna is that you rise up and fight. You take the responsibility. In the Bhagavatam, Pariksit Maharaj has already accepted that I have been cursed and I accept the curse and I am going to die in 7 days.
Then, it is more of accepting. This is the Lord’s will. How can I accept it gracefully? So, surrender can have many different forms.
And, it may also be that how much is in our control that can change with time. Say, if we want to keep things clean. If we are in a particular place, in a particular temple, a particular area, we can keep our room clean but if we tell others, others will not listen to us.
But, if we keep doing our services right now, maybe as we move forward, we become senior, we get more responsibilities and then, maybe we become clean and in charge. Then, we can make sure that the broader environment is also clean. So, like our Kshetra, that is what is in our control, that area can increase with time.
But, we need to see what is in my control right now and what is not in my control. And, Krishna’s will can be manifest in both. In this situation, Krishna, this is what I will do.
This is the amount of control Krishna has given me and this is what I can do in this situation. So, we act accordingly. And, the last part is, Krishna’s will is more like a direction, which is the direction in which my life and my consciousness are going.
Second is, there are two ways. I can accept the situation, I can accept the responsibility to change the situation. And then, lastly, what is our destination? So, basically, this is based on section 1846-48 in the Gita, that, first, let me make a simple diagram, then I will make a more complicated diagram.
So, we all have certain gifts. So, what we have, that is, Krishna’s gift to us. And, what we do with what we have, that is, our gift to Krishna.
What we do with what we have is our gift to Krishna. And, this is how this vision of bhakti becomes a very life-affirming vision of bhakti. That means, Krishna doesn’t just want us to okay, this material world is a dukkhal, I just leave this world and come to me.
There is some truth to that, but, while we are in this world, we need to function. And, we need to function in a way that we can have the maximum impact. In 1128-29, Krishna describes two modes of death, or the Vishwaroop is described.
In the Vishwaroop, Arjuna is describing that. So, one metaphor is of how moths rush into fire. They are bold.
The other metaphor is of how rivers move towards the ocean. So, Vedanta Shikha is a prominent commentator in the Srilankan tradition, following Ramacharya and Bhagavad Gita. And, he says that this means when a river goes towards the ocean, like that, the lives of the great souls are like that river which is flowing towards Krishna.
But, while the river is going to the ocean, the river does so much good for all the life forms along the way. It provides water, it provides nourishment, it helps in irrigation. So, like that, those who are devoted to Krishna, they are going towards Krishna.
But, while going towards Krishna, they want to do good to everyone. And, how do they do good? By using the gifts that Krishna has given them. Somebody may have musical ability, somebody may have managerial ability, somebody may have monetary ability, somebody may have concerning ability.
Whatever abilities we have, some abilities we can find them very easy to use in Krishna’s service. Some abilities may be more difficult. Somebody may say, I have a lot of interest in physics.
Now, if somebody says, I have interest in social media, maybe they can use social media to do some social media marketing for devotees. That’s straightforward. Somebody may have a lot of interest in physics and say, how can I use that? Some things we cannot use directly.
But, suppose somebody has a lot of interest in physics and they become a prominent scientist in future. And then, they win some big award and after that, they talk about how my faith, my spirituality gives me inspiration and direction for my life. That can inspire a lot of people.
See, even now, when ISRO and other organisations, they use space missions, they go to Tirupati Balaji and take the blessings. It may be just a ritual, but they are doing it still. So, many of these scientists, they have their influence and their influence is significant.
Not here. They are not like superstars, like Bollywood stars, but they have a significant influence. So, how our gifts may be used in Krishna’s service, that we may not know.
Right in the beginning. Now, when Arjuna had the archery ability, he had some talent. Now, is it that he knew right in the beginning that in future, there is going to be Dharma Yudra and there I will get to fight for Krishna and therefore, I should practise my archery? Maybe, maybe not.
Most likely not. It is not that Arjuna is omniscient. Krishna is omniscient alone.
Others may have some understanding of the future. But Arjuna knew this is what I am inspired to do. This is what I am good at doing.
You remember, I talked about guna-karma yesterday. So, he said that this is what I like to do. This is what I am good at doing.
So, I will do it. And he was fixed. When we are functioning in the world, if we are taking up responsibility in the world, we need to take it up diligently.
If we are cooking for Krishna, then we can have some kirtans going on, we can have a celebratory mood if we want. But we need to be careful about what we are cooking. Isn’t it? Some devotee is doing heart surgery.
He is a heart surgeon. And that devotee says, I want to remember Krishna while I am doing heart surgery. Yeah, nice if you remember Krishna.
But make sure you do the surgery properly. Isn’t it? If that is your job, you have to do that properly. You remember that incident when Arjuna says that, actually, Drona calls all his students and asks them to shoot a target.
An image of a bird. And he wants them to hit the bird’s eye. So, he doesn’t even give anybody else a chance.
What does Arjuna shoot? What does Arjuna say, I am seeing? I see only the eye of the bird. Now, Arjuna is a devotee. A devotee is meant to see Krishna everywhere, isn’t it? What does Arjuna say, I see Krishna everywhere.
I see Krishna’s eye over there. Are you going to shoot Krishna’s eye then? So, the point is that when we say we remember Krishna and we fight, that doesn’t mean we split our consciousness into two. One part of my left brain remembers Krishna, right brain do action.
It’s not like that. It’s in terms of the purpose. The purpose of what I am doing is ultimately to praise Krishna.
But when we are doing something, we do it wholeheartedly. I was talking with one devotee who had some severe health problems and he had some heart problems and he was a devotee heart surgeon. He was a very serious devotee but he had become elderly.
He was focused on Krishna. So, when he had to do a heart surgery, the devotee had a heart attack, I asked him, with whom are you going to do heart surgery? So, he said, Prabhu, if I go to him, He said very politely, Prabhu, this devotee has become a little distracted now because he is so focused on bhakti. So, he said, I want to go to Krishna but not right now.
So, if a devotee heart surgeon is absent minded, then don’t do a heart surgery, isn’t it? It’s a serious business. If you are going to do or take a responsibility, Krishna Anubhavita says, Lok Sangraha. Lok Sangraha means what? The world has to be maintained and every single person who takes a role in the world has to do that role responsibly.
I suppose Virat Kohli or Rohit Sharma were a devotee and suppose India loses in the lost in the world cup and then after India loses in the world cup final and Rohit Sharma comes to the press conference and says, actually you have been lost, just chant Hare Krishna and be happy. Now, what would happen? See, chant Hare Krishna and be happy is the right message but at that point it would be like the worst anti-preaching. Isn’t it? Ok, if you just want to chant and be happy, then don’t be the cricket team captain.
If you are going to be the cricket team captain, you have to take responsibility and you have to play well. You may explain that, ok, you know that we tried this and we tried this but somehow the strategy didn’t work and if you get depressed but I have my devotion, I am staying steady. That makes sense.
Spirituality cannot be used as an excuse for irresponsibility. So, if we have gifts, we are meant to use our gifts and thus, life affirming and in this way, Krishna says, yathah pravartir bhutana meena sarvanvantatam svakarmalatam abhyarcha siddhim vindati manava From me, the whole world has come about. By me, the whole world is animated.
Therefore, worship me through your work. Some people translate the work as worship. That is not the teaching of the Bhagavad Gita exactly.
It is work in a mode of worship. Know that our work is not just to get fame and recognition in the world. It is to also connect with Krishna.
So, for a devotee, when we do it in Krishna’s service, then Krishna will also bless us with enrichment from within our heart. And Krishna may bless us with empowerment so that we may also be able to do wonderful things. But even if the empowerment doesn’t happen, not everybody will necessarily be empowered to do spectacular things.
Studying Krishna Consciousness all over the world, Prabhupada has done that. And nobody else can do that. It has already been done.
there are two ways Krishna does it. Krishna gives us enrichment from within and then he gives empowerment by which we can get a lot of success. So, even if both don’t happen, even if one happens, that’s good enough.
What happens is, for many people, their view is very limited. They only see this much. That means they say, I am working so hard and why is the world not recognising me? They feel very dissatisfied and frustrated by that.
But if we understand that, I am not just doing this for the world to recognise me. I want to benefit the world but I also want to reach Krishna. I am doing this for Krishna’s pleasure.
That’s why even if the world does not recognise still, the devotee is enriched from within. So, in this way, Bhakti is actually very dynamic and life affirming. So, for us, how do we make decisions? Today I talked about the last part of that transcendental vision to life and our decision making.
First is, that means how do we do God’s will in our life? First we discussed, I discussed three Ds. First D was it’s a direction. It’s not exactly just a narrow path that you have to do this and in God’s will, if you’re not doing this, you’re lost.
It’s not that simple. So, Krishna doesn’t want micro-controllers. It is not that Krishna wants robots.
No parents want a robot instead of their child. So, we discussed how the Pandavas are individuals. We discussed how the Gopis are cooking for Krishna using their own abilities.
Second, I’ll talk about the dual forms of surrender. That there is sometimes surrender means accepting Krishna’s will and sometimes it means accepting the responsibility to do Krishna’s will. That based on what is in our control, we decide, this is what I want to accept, this is what has happened but this is what I am going to change.
So, that’s why bhakti is dynamic. Okay, which time do I, how do I surrender? We use our intelligence, we have to pray and then we make a decision. And the last is destination.
For a devotee, a devotee functions in the world, but a devotee is functioning for Krishna’s pleasure in the world. What we have is Krishna’s gift to us and what we do with what we have is Krishna’s, is our gift to Krishna. With this vision, we try to be Krishna conscious, we are enriched by our inner connection with Krishna but we are not too worried if the empowerment comes well and if it doesn’t come, still that enrichment is what is fulfilling for us.
In that way, each one of us can play our part in moving ahead in life. So, we discussed how can we live meaningfully. First, the I can make decisions only based on how I can avoid misery.
Then, look at our individuality to see what are the gifts we have by that self-observation. And even with the gifts that we have, we don’t just use those gifts to seek recognition and fame in the world. But we seek to do service to Krishna through these.
When we do these three things, we’ll find that in every situation in our life, we can find something meaningful to do and move ahead. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
So, are there any questions about today’s class before we take the previous questions? Pooji, here, this last part which you were mentioning that how the gifts which we have received, when we use those gifts to serve Krishna, that is our gifts to Krishna. So, Pooji, we also hear in our philosophy that we have got human form of life and the best thing which we can do is those nine limbs of bhakti. So, Pooji, now, what we are discussing here looks like that our gifts to Krishna means our intentions.
If we are good at something, we do that. But then, at the same time, we hear the philosophy that the best thing we should do is this, that we should simply sit down and hear or we should simply chant or do that way. So, Pooji, I am not sure those two are contradictory.
See, we are trying to develop a relationship with Krishna and that does involve hearing about him. That does involve remembering him, that’s chanting his glories. That’s definitely there.
But there is paadasevanam. The paadasevanam or dasyam, atmanivedanam. How can I surrender myself if I don’t know what is myself? So, paadasevanam, we could say, it just means touching the lotus feet and pressing the lotus feet.
That’s one example. Is that the only way you can do paadasevanam? If you consider dasyam. Hanuman is an example of dasyam.
But what all does he do in dasyam? He goes across single-handed ranka and uses what blessings he has been given, what gifts he has, dynamically in Krishna’s service. So, some of these elements may be very specific Shranam, Kirtanam, Svaranam. But some of them are very broad and expansive.
And we can also look at Prabhupada. Prabhupada, yes, he focused on hearing and chanting. But Prabhupada also focused on building temples.
And for that, he was into getting architecture. And Prabhupada was into getting equipment. There was a time when they were not getting cement for building the Vrindavan temple.
And finally, when they got cement, Prabhupada treated each cement bag as if it were a jewel bag. He would keep it very carefully, Prabhupada said. He would count each cement bag and very carefully, he would chant Krishna mantra and count it.
So, bhakti is inclusive. Sometimes, some ways in which it is presented, it may seem that it’s a little narrow emphasis. But it is not.
See, one question to this only. We hear that, we have to end up third-version service. And in that, we hear that if somebody is working in an office, let’s say, now he can end up third-version service.
So, that is my question. Is it right or wrong, my understanding, that’s what I want to check. There are certain limits of bhakti.
If we do, like in, I heard this earlier, that how Jain Goswami writes in Vrindavan, that there is something called Svarupa Lakshana of Bhakti. So, now, if somebody does that Svarupa Lakshana, then only he is doing third-version service. Means his consciousness also should be to praise Krishna at the same time, but activity also should be of certain category.
It cannot be that somebody is studying and then he can do third-version service. Or somebody is working in an office, he can do third-version service. See, different devotees have different inspirations.
And based on that, they will emphasise certain things. So, yes, Jain Goswami does talk about that. But then, if you are really going to talk about the Goswamis, the Goswamis talk about Ragatmika Bhakti, where they say that we should even what we are doing, we shall stay as Brahmacharis in the temple.
We are not doing Ragatmika Bhakti. We should meditate on a particular associate of the Lord. And we should try to imbibe the mood of that associate.
And how that associate serves. So, our Guru will tell us through Siddha Pranali who we are specifically as Svarupa in the spiritual world. And then they will tell us who we are meant to serve in the spiritual wonder.
And the whole Krishna Svanu Padvati that is there. That is, that we enter into Vrindavan, Goloka Vrindavan, by meditating on the mood of that particular associate under whom we will be serving in the spiritual world. Now, why select one thing and emphasise only one thing from the Acharya’s teachings? That is a very important part of it.
But Bhaktivinoda Thakura did not emphasise it. Bhaktivinoda Thakura practised it a little bit. But Bhaktivinoda Thakura didn’t emphasise it.
Because that kind of thing is very easily immutable through Swahajiyaism. So, Prabhupada didn’t emphasise it. So, when you go to the Goswamis, it can be very easy to selectively quote some things and devalue other things.
So, the important thing is our consciousness to be connected with Krishna. Because ultimately, it’s not a matter of technicality. It’s a matter of a relationship with Krishna.
And if a devotee has an earnest desire to serve Krishna and the devotee is being given a particular gift, the devotee uses that gift. So, should the devotee not serve Krishna using that gift? So, how much will be the immersion of that devotee? That’s definitely open to question. But, if somebody does not have the adhika, the capacity, the purity, just focus on hearing and chanting, then it may end up that person is trying to do more devotional activities.
And they end up gossiping and they end up getting distracted. They end up… There are so many devotees I have seen in places like Mayapur or Vrindavan, where they prematurely retire, go there, and they are living there, but because they don’t have any solid service, and then they don’t have any tangible response, they don’t have the capacity to immerse themselves constantly in Krishna. So, then they go and talk about this person, like, oh, I came to know this, I came to know that.
Just get lost in gossip. So, now, is it pure devotional service? I feel it’s an incremental step. You know, first there is service, then there is, first we start with service.
Then that service becomes devotional service. And then it will be pure devotional service. So, just because somebody is put in a devotional environment doesn’t necessarily mean their service is going to be devotional service.
Just somebody could be employees working in a temple. Now, they may be doing seva or cleaning the temple, assisting the devotees. They are in a devotional environment, but is there, is there room for a salary? That’s not considered service.
Or we consider service, but it’s not devotional service. Or it’s a devotional environment. So, salary is the only thing.
Somebody may not be taking salary, but they are very conscious that I am such a sincere devotee, everybody should bow down to me, everybody should respect me. It could be because they are monitoring other than etiquette. It could also be that it’s because of they have a need for prestige.
So, who knows? So, I feel that we should not make the, we should not quote selectively from the acharya’s writings so that most devotees feel that what they are doing is not bhakti and they start devaluing it. This kind of devaluing is very dangerous. Say, if parents are practising bhakti and they want the child to become a devotee and the child doesn’t become a devotee.
Does that mean that say, if the child is not ready to become a devotee, should the parents just abandon the child? That would be horrendous, isn’t it? Say, if my child is not ready to become a devotee then this is not bhakti. Well, okay, maybe, but is bhakti a matter of simply creating a rubber-stamped replica of a particular thing? It’s a matter of the heart. If Krishna has given his free will, can’t the parents give free will and dispense the free will of the child? This narrow definition of devotional service can be very, very damaging.
I have met many, many devotee kids. Our first generation was actually, first generation was Prabhupada’s disciples’ children. It’s like, if Prabhupada had some 6,000-7,000 disciples, then probably, Prabhupada’s disciples’ children, probably not more than 15 of those children have become devotees.
Or a thousand or thousands. Now, slowly some of them are coming back, but not 15, maybe 15 is very less, but 15 to 20, 30, not much more. It is just that they are so neglected.
I was talking with one devotee kid, one Prabhupada’s disciple, very intelligent boy. He said that I never felt throughout my childhood that my parents loved me. Loved me as a person.
They treated me only like I was a trophy of their devotion that they could parade in the devotee community. My son is so nice. He comes and sings these verses.
Because my son is so nice, so I am such a nice person. So, kids are disturbing. Such a narrow definition of bhakti.
It’s like, I was in America and I met one, I mean, it’s terrible. One devotee, one preacher was glorifying one devotee to me. He’s such a sincere devotee.
His wife was not ready to become a devotee, so they divorced her. Now, is that the sign of sincerity of a devotee? Maybe it is. But is that the model we want to glorify? I don’t know the background.
Maybe the wife was a terrible person and it is good that he was separated. I tried to ask a little bit. But I don’t think ever we should publicly glorify that.
It’s one thing say parents, they are also trying to take care of our parents as much as we can. Within limits. So, if our parents are not becoming devotees and if we take care of our parents, is that pure devotional service? It doesn’t matter.
We are living in the world. Krishna knows our heart. And we need to do what it takes to make sure that Krishna’s movement continues functioning.
So, I think this pure devotional service itself is a complex concept. So, now, going back to that example of somebody’s seriousness and devotion that they just divorce their wife. I don’t think that should be the criteria.
A woman, my husband was not serious, so I divorced him. This is the seriousness of my devotion. It would be wise to do that.
So, I think it’s an incremental process. We encourage people to connect with Krishna. There is 12.8 to 8, 9, 10, 11, Krishna talks about various levels.
Krishna says you observe yourself in me. If not, you try to remember me. If not, you try to work for me.
If not, you try to work for a higher cause. And Krishna says, by all these, you will come to me. So, in trying to practise devotional service, or rather in trying to practise pure devotional service, we all aspire for it.
There is no doubt about that. But in trying to practise pure devotional service prematurely, we may actually end up doing anti-preaching. And we may end up alienating people.
I was giving the example of a cricket player. Something like that actually happened. George Harrison was probably at that time the most popular musician in the world.
When NASA discovered a satellite around Jupiter, they named it after George Harrison. It was so popular at that time basically. But the thing is that he met Prabhupada.
Prabhupada told him, write songs about Krishna. And he started doing that. And his reviews were completely tanking.
He was in Madison Square Avenue, which is the biggest venue for musicians to perform in New York. And he was there and thousands of music fans had come and he told them chant Hare Krishna. And people started taking beer bottles and throwing on him and eggs and tomatoes and things like that.
Because from their perspective, they have come to hear music. They have not come here to hear a religious sermon. If they want to have religious music, they will go to church or they can go to temple.
So then he met Prabhupada and he told Prabhupada, for every one person, I did what you told me to do. But for every one person I am getting to Krishna, I am getting closer to Krishna, I feel I am 100 people I am driving away from Krishna. So Prabhupada became very grieved.
And then Prabhupada said, use your intelligence. Balance things out. So then he started making normal songs and then he started inserting some little bit emotion here and there.
He started. So when the normal songs started singing, then again he became popular. And then the media started saying, oh thank god this that, this George Harrison is a phenomenal musical talent.
He has come out of his cult phase. He had got involved in this Hare Krishna cult, but he has come out of it. And then in between, gently he brought in some devotional themes, he brought in some songs.
So he would call himself like a plainclothes devotee. He never, he generally didn’t explicitly talk about his devotion. And that was his strategy.
He was able to reach a large number of people. So now if somebody is a popular musician, and maybe he, as his job, he has to produce music, which is in the genre that people expect him to. The genre that he has earned fame in.
And then he can’t just give up his job and leave. If he is going to do that, then that’s what he has to tell. Now I have changed, this is the kind of music I want.
If you want, you can hear it, otherwise you leave. But if he goes to a forum, say for example, just to make a simple example. And somebody invites us to their college to give a class on value education.
They invite us to speak on value education and there we give a talk on pure devotional service. Now what is happening over here, what is wrong over here is, our giving a talk on pure devotional service is not wrong. But if they have provided a forum, and we have accepted their forum, then we have to find out an area of intersection between what their expectation is, and what our aspiration is.
If it’s our forum, we can speak whatever we want. Within limits, but we can speak whatever we want. But in their forum, we have to be careful, so that we are not disrupting the expectation that they have.
That’s why I said, if Arjuna is a warrior, there is no evidence in the Mahabharata that with each arrow they are shooting, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. No, Arjuna is not doing that. He is focused on fighting.
War is a serious business with life and death consequences. So I would say that it’s an incremental process, and Krishna says, whatever level we are practising, we will come to him. That’s why I think this pure devotional service, worrying too much whether what I am doing is pure devotional service.
It’s far better to focus on whether am I remembering Krishna and am I trying to serve Krishna. Anuswara Yudhyaja. Just one point if you can clear.
Verse comes in Bhagavatam, Chaitanya and Duryodhana. So I heard the explanation that if somebody gives up their duties for transcendence, then it is much better than doing those duties better. Bhagavatam has a particular focus.
Every book has a particular context. Say for example, if we are giving a brahmachari class, we will focus on a particular thing. If we are speaking to grahasthas, we will speak about a particular thing.
So now, if somebody has decided to be a brahmachari, then that person is very cautious about how to limit interactions with men, how to be very careful. But that same principle cannot be applied to a grahastha who has to be with his family. Isn’t it? Yes, that does not mean that they want to be unlimited.
There is a life-centred sense of identification. But a grahastha, the way they interact with each other, there will be differences. It is not the exact same application.
Isn’t it? So the idea is the Bhagavatam is spoken in a particular context. That is, the whole direction of the Bhagavatam is largely world-transcending, not world-transforming. There are two different aspects.
World-transcending and world-transforming. Bhakti has both these aspects. But Gita’s focus is much more on world-transforming.
Krishna wants Arjuna to fight a war and Arjuna is fighting to transform the world. Now, Parikshit Maharaj has decided more or less that I am going to accept this curse. Now, Parikshit Maharaj could have said that I am stopping Kali Yuga.
That Kali is coming, Kali is infiltrating and I don’t want Kali Yuga to come through. And to fight against it, to prevent Kali Yuga from coming in, I will counter his curse. And he could have tried to find some way, maybe Siddhas could have helped him do that.
But the Lord inspires different people in different ways. And in that particular context, overall Bhagavatam’s mood is world-transcending. But, if you see in the Bhagavatam also, it’s not simply like that.
When Pruthu Maharaj’s citizens come to him and say that we are starving because of this famine. He doesn’t say, okay, I will also renounce the world, you also renounce the world and we will all go back to Godhead by starving. No, he actually fights, he is ready to attack Bhoomi Devi in the form of a cow.
Just think about it, attacking a cow, kings are going to protect cows. And he is ready to go against a cow. Because he says, you have to produce food.
So he is showing that when he is in a position, he has to take responsibility for that position. So yes, the path of dharma is true. But is that something which everybody is going to do? If somebody wants to do that, that’s fine.
Even in a temple situation, we say, all of us are brahmacharis, but if we have some practical problem and we go and temple authorities tell someone and they say, just chant Hare Krishna and be happy. It’s very frustrating to say, we are cooking and this person is disrupting the whole mood of cooking, this person is doing this, this person is doing that. Can this person be given other service? No, no, no, you chant Hare Krishna and be happy.
Now, even in a temple situation also, it doesn’t work if you have a practical problem and you have a philosophical solution. It can work sometimes, but it doesn’t work all the time. We all should have a philosophical perspective, generally speaking.
But practical problems also need to be practically addressed. See, there is a water lake and the whole temple hall is being filled with water. Chant Hare Krishna and be happy.
And, okay, yes, and no. Isn’t it? We have to do something practical also, isn’t it? So, it’s something which we have to consider. Say, somebody is doing Buddhist tradition.
Is that a pure devotional activity? Maybe it is, but it also depends on consciousness. My reason for doing Buddhist tradition is that I want to come number one so that I can show that I am a better devotee. Maybe that’s not pure devotional activity.
But it’s good. Some services happen. People are getting a spiritual message.
So, should we constantly be introspecting whether we are doing pure devotional service? I feel that we should always stay connected with Krishna. And I don’t mind if it doesn’t work, sure. So, if we can be at the level of pure devotional service, excellent.
But if we can’t, we shouldn’t be guilty. We shouldn’t feel guilty. We should not make others feel guilty.
And we should not disconnect them from Krishna. If you can’t practise pure devotional service, practise devotional service. If you can’t practise devotional service, at least practise some service.
Gradually, Krishna says, you will come to a higher level. Thank you, Guruji. Thank you so much.
There is a question here. Yes, please. Hare Krishna.
Guruji, we see in our life that if a child is immature, then the father will not give him the freedom, right? Because he will misutilize it. So, now we can see like Lord has given us freedom. And we say that because he loves us, he has given us the free will.
So, now there are two principles. There is a principle that as he loves us, he has given us free will. And there is a principle of the compassion.
So, if he knows that we are under the grip of the material energy, we will eventually degrade ourselves. So, then if he really loves us and there is compassion, then he should restrict the free will so that we can eventually not degrade ourselves. So, now among these two, which principle is the superior one and then why in such condition God is giving us the free will? He knows that he will definitely misutilize it.
So, that is the question. Thank you. I appreciate your confidence in our certainty of misusing our free will.
Laughter Laughter Laughter Well, yeah, see I won’t say that I have a complete answer to this question. The whole question of free will is a complex question. And when to intervene? In the Vedanta Sutra, the question comes up that if the Lord is the person who empowers everyone to do everything, ultimately.
The ability to fight with enemies also comes from the Lord only. So, then if the Jiva misuses the ability that God has given him, is the Jiva responsible or is God responsible? Now, the Jiva is responsible and that’s true at one level. But again, going back to the example, say, if in this law, if a 25-year-old man shoots or misuses a gun, that is, that person will be held responsible.
But if a 15-year-old kid misuses the gun, then they’ll say, who had the gun? How did the kid get the gun? If the parents had the gun, why did the parents not keep it under lock and key? And why did they let the child have the access? So, generally, minors are not persecuted so severely. But that does not mean nobody is responsible. Then the adult becomes responsible.
The adult is supposed to supervise the minor. So, in general, when we talk about, I think I mentioned this, love, there are love that guides and the love that guards. There are these two kinds of love.
So, guides means, okay, it’s your life, it’s your choice, but this is what this will lead to this, this will lead to this, now you decide. And the love that guards, that is, you cannot do this, you cannot let this influence come upon you. So, generally speaking, the way material nature works, or the way Krishna works, is that we are living beings with free will and Krishna’s primary role is to guide us.
That is his primary role. At the same time, there are limits. In 9.6, So, if you consider the sky to be like an upside down bowl, then the example is given that the wind, the gust of wind, the wind can move left, the wind can move right, the wind can move top, it can move downwards, but the wind will be within the parameter of the sky.
It cannot go beyond that parameter, perimeter of the sky, not parameter, okay. So, similarly for us, that whatever we do is within the ambit of Krishna’s will. Now, So, we all get a particular amount of Kshetra, but that Kshetra depends on what we have done and what we have earned through what we have done.
In terms of, I discussed like past karma and present karma and all that. So, Duryodhana had done some karma in the past because of which he had born royal family, because of which he had the ability to fight well with mice. But then he misused that ability.
So, does Krishna control? Well, through the law of karma, he does give consequences. Like, say, somebody abuses the human form of life. Then, during that human form of life, they may be able to do a particular thing for a particular amount of time.
But after that, they go down to a lower form of life. So, in that sense, the whole system of karma is a mechanism by which people’s actions are regulated. Like, they get the consequences for their actions.
So, there is a law that guides. There is not rape because I didn’t force myself. But then you actually give no choice to that.
So, life is complicated. In general, my understanding is Krishna has provided such a system by which he has given us free will and he has given us facility to use the free will the way we want it. For good as well as for bad.
And he has created a system by which we will gradually learn to use the free will properly. In addition to this, again, the question comes to this end that why this bad desire comes again. Same thing you mentioned.
I don’t know whether you can literally use the word bad desire because free will is there and there are desires. So, it’s like for a person, what is the range of desire that comes that depends on the choices that are made. It’s like, say, if you are giving some competitive exam and there are some responsive tests.
That means if you give a right answer, then you get a tougher question. If you get a wrong answer, you get a slightly easier question. So, basically, the idea is they try to bring you, try to assess what is your level.
So, is it that somebody being given an easier question, somebody giving you a tougher question. Is that unfair? No, it’s dependent. We’re trying to find out what your level is, what a particular person’s level is.
So, like that, if a person makes a sattvic choice, the future choices are more sattvic. A person makes a rajasic choice, future choices are more rajasic. A person makes tamasic choices, the future choices become more tamasic.
So, like somebody who has never, say, taken alcohol, they always make sattvic choices. Even if you provide them a tamasic choice, it will not interest them. So, it is maybe some sattvic drink is there with some alcohol in it.
Maybe they might consider that. But straight alcohol, they will not even consider it. So, it’s not that bad desires come from somewhere.
It’s more like, Krishna says, what is the verse? 4, 13, 14. So, in the same verse, Krishna is saying, I am the doer and yet I am the non-doer. What it means is, Krishna is the doer in the sense that Krishna has created these four varanas.
But I am the non-doer in the sense that Krishna is not putting one person in this. I am not making you a shudra and I am making you a brahmana. It is by your own karma, you have a particular kind of disposition by which you fit in that.
Here is a brahmana. You fit here as a shudra. So, Krishna has created the range of choices.
But where we fit in those range of choices, that’s up to us. So, you could say that the bad desires also come from Krishna. Not really.
It is more like a set of options are given by Krishna. Like say, a teacher sets a multiple choice exam. In that five options, one is right, four are wrong.
Where do the wrong options come from? The wrong options came from the teacher only. But that does not mean the teacher makes the person make the wrong choices. So, tasya kartaram apimam The teacher is the karta of the various options.
But when the student chooses the wrong option, vidya akartaram. I am not the doer. So, it is like that.
So, the choices ultimately come from Krishna. Sorry, not choices. You could use the word.
The options come from Krishna. But the choices we make. Okay.
So, in Sanatana Dharma, it is said that we came from Manu, but in other religions, it is said that there is Adam and Eve. Well, every tradition, when it comes to their version of history, there will always be differences. Bhaktivinoda Thakur talks about how, Chaitanya Shiksha Amrit, that the same one God gives revelations according to culture, according to time, according to circumstances, according to people’s mindsets.
So, I think once we go into specifics, there will be differences. Are the differences reconciliable? Well, it will require some research. Maybe they are, maybe they are not.
That, some devotees have done some research about how one particular Manu’s description is very similar to Adam and Eve. How Vyavati and Adam, something like that, in one of the Vedic scriptures is mentioned. But I wouldn’t put too much stock on that.
The point is that within, Christians have a bigger problem than we have for this. Why? Because their tradition has a very singular history-centred vision of history. In our tradition, there are many Yugas, there are many Manvantaras and in one particular phase in the cosmic cycle, it could be that Adam and Eve were the sources.
So, it’s not impossible within our tradition. But from their tradition, because they have such a history-centred view, so it becomes much more difficult. But in general, once you go into specifics, it will be very, very difficult to reconcile.
Why? Because each tradition appears at a particular place and teachings are given according to what is intelligible for people at that place. So, the stories will be told in a particular way. So, in our tradition, there’s not much mention of say angels.
Now, we can say devatas are angels, but angels are slightly different. Devatas are more like administrative beings who are worshipped. Angels in the tradition are not those beings who are worshipped.
Angels are like, there is no puja of the angels. Angels are beings who guide people, who come to their rescue, who help them. So, it’s very different.
Now, in our tradition, there is no description of angels. So, are there angels? Well, we don’t say that. We know every single being that exists in every 14th planet system.
So, at every single level, we know broadly. So, it’s possible angels are there within our tradition also, but they are not mentioned over here. So, in general, if we get into specifics, it will be very difficult to reconcile.
So, the principle is, Krishna has revealed according to different time-place circumstances. So, in the English versions of the Ramayana Mahabharata, whenever female character is mentioned, then there is mention of their beauty in explicit terms. So, why is such thing there? It is not usual in the Vedic custom.
Well, we shouldn’t equate current Indian culture with Vedic custom. So, basically, Shringar is considered to be a very important feature in Kavya. Kavya, see for us, Ramayana Mahabharata, these are sacred books.
And they are sacred books, but they are also Kavya. And Kavya has certain rules. Like, if you write poetry, you know, you can have poetry which is, the last word is rhyming.
You can write a poetry which has every first and third are rhyming, second and fourth are rhyming. There are certain rules for poetry. So, Kavya has certain rules and one of the rules is that Shringar has to be there.
Shringar means the description of beauty and beauty includes female beauty. So, that is a rule that is followed by the rules. Now, we may say it doesn’t, it agitates us.
Yeah, that is true. So, we can avoid reading it. But within the narration, it is not just random.
It is, wherever it is given, it serves a purpose. So, for example, Hanuman is in Lanka and that time he sees Ravan enjoying or he sees Ravan’s assistants in various states of, various states of undress. Or when Ravan comes and sees Sita and he describes Sita’s beauty.
Or there are other places or in the Bhagavatam, for example, when Mohini Murthy comes. Her description is beautiful. So, each of these places, there is a dramatic or narrative purpose served by it.
That, why would Ravan, Ravan knew that I don’t have protection against Manavas and he had been mourned by Marichi. But still, why would he get so infatuated? Because Sita was so beautiful. Now, why was he specifically describing her beauty? Because his hope was that by describing her beauty, she would become pleased and she will come voluntarily with him.
He initially didn’t want, he wanted her but he thought if she just gets to know me, if she knows me, how powerful I am, I can seduce her, I can get her with me. Now, the Asuras, for example, they have fought and they have struggled and worked to get the pot of nectar. Why would they give it up just like that? It’s only because she is so stunningly beautiful.
They just lost their intelligence. So, within the narrative for Hanuman, when he goes to Lanka, he says, there was so much temptation there but he did not get distracted. So, each of these places, there is a narrative purpose being served.
So, basically, within literature itself, there are three kinds where female beauty is described. There is romantic, there is erotic and there is pornographic. All three are not the same.
So, generally, in romantic, the explicit description is the least. Where the male and the female are attracted to each other, that’s the basic principle of human existence. When they are attracted to each other, then the beauty of each of them is described.
So, that is romantic. Where it is a very light description but it is there. In erotic, the explicit becomes a bit more.
Where the idea is, within the story, the interaction between both of them, between the characters that is described a bit more in explicit terms. But still, even in erotic, it is within the story, it serves a particular purpose. But often in pornographic, there is no story.
The story is not important at all. It is not about any relationship. It is just about the physical indulgence.
So, how the two of them met, did they have a relationship? No, it is just that this person, that person, they are just indulging. So, this is, even from a literature perspective, pornographic is considered very cheap and degraded. But sometimes we have like a Mayavadi vision, anywhere female beauty is described, we start thinking this is obscene or something like that.
No. There is literature, literature has its own way of writing. So, my understanding is that most of the descriptions in the Ramayana or the Mahabharata, they are romantic.
Maybe a little bit erotic at a few places, but none of that can be technically considered to be obscene. Now, once we start going in that direction, where will we stop? That it’s like in Bharatanatyam, all kinds of traditional dances, they are mostly done by women. So, are we going to say that women should not dance at all because it’s female body and then if they should not dance at all, then who is going to preserve these dance forms? Or only low class women should do that.
Okay. How are you defining low class? So, we should not have a very puritanical attitude. What Prabhupada has given us is not Vedic culture.
He has given us the best of Vedic culture. He has given us the highest within Vedic culture. But in Vedic culture, there are other things.
For example, we follow no meat-eating. But is meat-eating a part of Vedic culture? Yes, of course, it is. It may not be the best part.
We all know that. It’s like a concession which is there. There are Durga puja is there.
Kali worship is there. Meat-eating is common at that time. So, we are a part of a very broad tradition.
Within that, we are focussing on its highest aspect. But that doesn’t mean we have to outlaw all other aspects of the tradition. We understand they have a particular place.
In our situation today, we won’t be focussing on those kind of things. But that doesn’t mean that they are bad or they should be rejected. So, it’s not in the English versions.
It is there in the original Sanskrit itself. That’s why it is in the translations also it is there. So, I don’t know how much time do we have.
We had something at 12.45, I think. Prabhu? 12.45 or 1? What time should we stop? Okay. So, if we have fear for services according to our sabhava, because we have some conditionings from the past.
Well, there is fear everywhere. One challenge when doing service according to our nature is that it’s very easy to feel that we are the karta. It’s very easy to become proud.
Because we are good at that. And you start thinking that, you know, I am so good at this. So, that’s why we need association of devotees who will, especially devotees who will keep us grounded.
Sometimes very helpful to also meet devotees or interact with devotees who have talents that we don’t have. Because when I have a particular talent and then I surround myself with people who admire that talent. And what happens is I start thinking I am a great person.
But then if I meet with devotees who don’t have that talent or who have a different talent which I don’t have. Then we keep grounded. We keep ourselves grounded.
We start understanding that actually I am a part of something far bigger. It’s a team. And I have been given a particular role.
It’s a cricket match. Cricket team. Somebody might be a brilliant spin bowler.
And they should be the best spin bowler they can be. But they know that one spin bowler does not make the whole team. Somebody else is a brilliant cricket keeper.
Somebody is a very brilliant attacking batsman. So, like that, we are a part of a team. And we want to play our part well.
But we also understand that there are many parts we can’t play. And the parts we can play, that also, it is by Krishna’s mercy. Sometimes we may have some ability, but like in sports, sometimes it happens that a top batsman is there but the batsman goes out of home.
He is not able to play even routine shots. Like that, we will also see sometimes even in the fields that we are good, sometimes we are spectacular and sometimes we are mediocre. And we can’t really figure out.
We may be a very good speaker, but someday we give a great class. Someday, it’s like, it’s great when the class ends. Isn’t it? So, these things happen and that can keep us grounded and humble that way.
How will the nature work in choosing our sabha? Well, I don’t think that the Varna and ashram necessarily are related in particular ways. If somebody is fortunate enough or unfortunate enough, whichever way you want to look at it. Somebody is very clear about doing what their Varna is.
Some devotees are very good at painting. Some devotees are say, very good at music. Not just good, very good, like phenomenally good.
So, then it’s clear that that’s what they love, that’s what they want to do. Then they have to see if they want to become a brahmachari, they have to check whether if that is the service they want to do, whether in the ashram, if not immediately, initially, first few years, we’ll all have to learn humility and self-discipline, but whether we will get that space or not. Otherwise, what may happen is that that person may feel very suffocated.
And that person may feel that, oh, their dissatisfaction is material in the sense that they are not able to act according to their subawa, but they may think it’s spiritual dissatisfaction. And they may go away from bhakti only. So, generally speaking, our movement is becoming very broad now.
And we’re recognising that different devotees have different talents. Generally, when a project is beginning, the early stages, that time, whatever service is required, we do that. It’s like, in a country, if an army unit has gone to a place where a small number of soldiers are there and the enemy is attacking over there, whatever way you can fight, you fight.
But then as the country becomes well-formed, it has a proper constructed army, then somebody goes into, say, somebody goes into RAW, somebody goes into this, somebody goes into that, they become specialised and they have the specialised services. So, that can also happen. So, is it that certain varanas are easier to practise in particular ashram? I’m not sure.
Generally speaking, if you look at devotees teaching, brahmacharya life is largely for teaching and preaching. So, if you like to teach and study, then then that is possible in the brahmacharya ashram. I’ll have to think about this actually, whether the varana and the ashram are particular varanas related with particular, is particular ashram suited for particular varanas? It’s not such an easy thing to answer because the ashram itself is not standard everywhere.
There are certain standard things, but different ashrams have different modes. I think rather than worrying too much about which ashram to choose based on varana, we focus more on the principle of connecting with Krishna and let’s try to dedicate ourselves to our connection with Krishna more and more and Krishna will reveal the varana to us also, Krishna will reveal the ashram also to us in due course. If you have emotional needs, you should not come to the brahmacharya ashram.
I don’t know whether that is related to varana. Okay. So, yeah, somehow I feel that it’s difficult to give general principles.
Brahmacharya life is it’s, you have to be emotionally tough for it. That is there because in one sense, while there are devotees who, we can develop friendship with devotees and I have many close friends, but actually I am more of an intellectual. So, most of my friends are those who are intellectuals, whether they are brahmacharya or grhasar, doesn’t make any difference to me.
So, in that sense, but the thing is that I am not sure how much it is related to the ashram and how much it is related to karma in the sense that say somebody may come to brahmacharya life and they may get very fine, very good friends and somebody else may come to brahmacharya life and not find any good friends. Now somebody may get married and they may find a very good spouse. And somebody get married, they may not find a very good spouse.
So, we have certain emotional needs and we would like those emotional needs to be fulfilled. But can you make a linear correlation like that? That I have some emotional needs, so I am going to grahasar. See, whichever ashram we need to go, we have to go with a service attitude.
I have some emotional needs, but the other person will also have some emotional needs. Other person will have also may financial need, this need, that need. So, there is a reciprocation.
So, two things I would say, don’t make this decision hastily. Take some time. Observe the ashram.
Interact with many devotees. And see where we feel comfortable. So, see, we all have an emotional side, which cannot be denied.
We have a head and a heart. We have an emotional side. But, if somebody has a specific need for one person who will be available for me, for my emotional needs to be taken care of.
Well, that may be difficult, even if we have a counsellor. Maybe in future our counsellor changes. Maybe the counsellor goes to a different project, we go to a different project.
So, then can we really shift and find somebody else with whom we can connect. So, in that sense, yes, there is a specific emotional need and the grahasar ashram might be better. So, if we have free will, but Krishna says that if you don’t serve me, you suffer in the material world.
So, is Krishna really giving us free will or is he giving illusion of free will? Well, it’s not that simple. See, you could say at one level the material world is a place of suffering, but it’s not equal. Sattva guna, a person suffers much less.
In life, there is, some suffering is unavoidable. Janma, Murti, Jara, Vyadi. But there is much suffering that is avoidable.
So, if somebody loses sattva guna, their suffering will be much lesser. Rajo guna, their suffering will be more. Tamoguna, their suffering will be much much more.
So, it is not that Krishna is sentencing us to suffering just because we don’t serve him. No. Krishna has created a place where we can act, choose to act based on we can choose to use our free will without necessarily loving him.
But within this world, how we act will determine what we get thereafter. It’s not that everyone in the material world is constantly suffering or suffering equally. If somebody is suffering more, that’s a consequence of their having misused their free will previously.
So, yes, every action will have consequence. See, having free will means the free will to choose an action. It is not the free will to choose the consequence of the action.
Isn’t it? That choice nobody has. That would be completely unreasonable. I have free will.
I have free will to jump from this hundred storey building. Yeah, you have that free will. But you don’t have free will whether gravity will act or not.
Isn’t it? So, there is can we really say that free will is with respect to choice. Is it consequence of choice? I don’t think it’s reasonable. Where do we get that free will? Anywhere in the world? We don’t have free will of the consequence of the choice.
If we go above the speed, we will get a ticket. Now, we have the choice to go above the speed limit, but we don’t have the choice whether we get the ticket or not. So, like that, I think it’s unreasonable to say that because we get the consequence of our choices, therefore Krishna has not given us free will.
These choices are also a spectrum. These choices can mean Sattva, Rajas and Tamas. So, if Krishna had made this world in such a way that if we don’t serve him, everybody gets the same kind of suffering.
Then we could say that that’s a problem. That’s one of the problems with earlier talk about the Adamic Christian narrative. So, basically, it does seem to be more of a non-literal or a symbolic narrative than a literal narrative.
Many Christian theologians also talk about this because what happens is in the Christian theology, if you take the literal implication that that Adam sinned against God and that’s why we came to this world and that’s why we are suffering because in the Christian theology they don’t have the idea of karma as we have it. The other principle is as you sow, so shall you reap. But it’s not exactly karma in the sense that our actions are carried from one life to another life and all that.
So then, if we take the whole narrative literally, the implication is that when there is an earthquake where thousands of people die, when there is some pandemic which kills hundreds of people, there is a disease which wipes out maybe half the population. All that is, what is the reason for that? All suffering is because millions of years ago, one person ate an apple. It seems not only ridiculous but outrageous.
in the Christian theology, the problem comes that if they take that narrative literally, then all suffering is because of that original sin. That’s the word they use, original sin. And because they don’t have multiple lifetimes, only one life, you go to God or you go to hell.
So all suffering is because of their original sin. Their idea, you see, I didn’t sin, Adam sinned. Their idea is almost like sin is like a genetic defect that is passed down through Adam, through all of humanity.
And then a big problem comes in Christian theology also is the disparity in suffering. That somebody is born in America, lives in a lot of prosperity. Somebody who is born in Somalia struggles for food every day for the rest of their life.
So why is it, why this difference is there? God’s will is inconceivable. And that’s not a very satisfactory answer. So many Christian theologians also consider that to be symbolic narrative, which represents basically the misuse of free will.
And they say seven days in which God created the world. So seven days are also like seven phases of cosmic time. It’s not literally seven days.
So there’s a, so there are literal narratives which can express more sophisticated ways also. The point is that, why I was telling you this is, in the Christian theology there is a problem. The disparity of suffering can’t be explained.
One sin, everybody is suffering, but in different ways. Why that? It is not that the law of karma is differentiated. When we suffer in the material world, there is a baseline level of suffering because this is a temporary world.
But beyond that, whatever suffering comes, that’s because of individual action. Bhutana yad mithakani. Bad karma and good karma don’t counteract each other.
So how do I understand that 90 and minus 90 plus 100 will become 10. Well, the point over there is not that simply I can do one karma which will cancel another karma. It’s not that simple.
But actually how karma unfolds, that is complicated. We’ll see three people may work just as hard. Different people get different results.
The three friends are walking along a road and there is water spilled over them. All three of them slip on the water. The first person there is a tree nearby, just catch hold of that.
And that person just steadies themselves. Second person slips and falls. Nothing is injured except their pride.
The third person slips and falls and just where their head falls, there is an iron bar that has come out of the ground. And they hit the bar and that person gets brain haemorrhage. That person becomes, lives in coma for the rest of 10 years and then they die.
So the same actions to wildly different results. Why is that? There is surely some past karma playing some role. So when we say that present that positive karma doesn’t cancel negative karma, it means we cannot use karma in a calculative way.
But there is a principle of atonement also is there. And even if positive karma can’t cancel negative karma, you know, even if karma distribution changes, that can make a difference in a person’s life. So when somebody worships a devata, somebody does some Kaalsarpa puja, somebody worships Krishna, karma can be rearranged.
Let’s stop with this. That, say, somebody is supposed to get four big problems in their lives. Maybe they are going to get a terrible disease.
Maybe they are going to lose all their money. Maybe they are going to lose a loved one. Maybe a business partner is going to be trading.
Each four of these, all four are big problems. But suppose they get these four problems in 10-10 years. One problem at the age of 20, another at the age of 30, another at the age of 40, another at the age of 50.
They can deal with it. But imagine all four problems come at the same time. Then it will be unbearable.
Isn’t it? So, now, suppose somebody has lived in a very healthy way in this life. Then maybe they are going to get a disease, but they don’t get the disease at the same time when their loved one passes away. The disease will still come, but it may come later because they have lived a healthy lifestyle.
Now, suppose somebody is going to be betrayed. But in this life, they have always been very polite and helpful and service-minded. Still, this person may betray them.
But at that time, because they have been very friendly and kind and helpful, others will come and help them. So, on the other hand, even in this life also, they will be judgemental and argumentative and exploitative. Now, this person betrays them and nobody else comes to help them at all.
So, we can’t just say it’s only past karma acting. The past karma is like a stockpile which is going to unfold. But how exactly it will unfold can vary.
And how we have lived in this life also may determine how we can deal with it when it unfolds. So, in that sense, the point of all this analysis is that our actions matter. What we are doing right now matters.
If we are doing bad things, don’t think that we will get away with it. And if we are doing good things and we are not getting good results, don’t become hopeless thinking that destiny is against us and nothing that we do matters. No.
If we are doing good, we will get results. But we may be going through a bad phase right now because of which the results may not be manifesting. There are a few other questions, but I don’t think I can take them now.
If any of you are there for the evening class, we can talk at that time. Thank you so much.