Gita for the CEO book: Chaitanya Charan interviewed by a leading Chartered Accountant in Dubai

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna. Hello and Namaste to everybody.
Myself, I am Ramesh Dawe. I am a Chartered Accountant, Company Secretary and Certified AML Specialist. I am Head of Compliance in a branch of a large multinational bank here in Abu Dhabi and today we are very fortunate to have His Grace Chaitanya Charan with us who is visiting this part of the world.
Chaitanya Charan Ji is a monk, is a mentor, he is a spiritual guide, he is a corporate coach and also an acclaimed author who has written more than 27 books on the Vedic wisdom. He has written over 4000 articles. He travels extensively around the globe, covering at least 4 continents and 100 cities in a year and has given thousands of lectures and inspired many many youths and the corporate leaders around the world.
He has also been invited to speak as a TEDx speaker also at various companies like Google, Microsoft, Intel and many many prestigious universities like Stanford University, Harvard University and others. So it is our great fortune that he is here and very recently he has written this one very wonderful book called Gita for the CEO by Chaitanya Charan. So Chaitanya Charan ji, welcome and thank you Ramesh, nice to be here with you.
Thank you sir. So Gita for CEO, just wanted to know what this book is all about in nutshell and what inspired you to write this book. Three things.
First was that for me the Gita is the book which has largely shaped and sustained my life and I love to study and analyze and present the Gita from different perspectives. So I have given talks on Gita from the perspective of psychology, Gita from the perspective of science and spirituality, so like that. So I always wanted to explore the genre of Gita from the perspective of leadership.
In fact, I started writing this book about 15 years ago and over the last 10 years when I have been travelling across the world, I have met with different leaders and all those experiences have gone into refining this book. So first was the personal interest in the Gita. The second is that there is a significant awakening of I would say corporate consciousness with an openness towards social responsibility and spirituality.
So I felt that the Bhagavad Gita has a very important need to fulfil. And there are many times when I give seminars, people ask me how do we see some value for leaders and corporate people in the Gita. It’s sometimes very difficult for them to directly read the Sanskrit verses or the traditional commentaries and see the relevance of the corporate setting.
So because there was a need over there, that also inspired me. And the third is I felt that at this particular time in India also there is an emphasis on the Indian knowledge systems and learning from those knowledge systems not just the philosophical aspect of the wisdom but the more practical world affirming and world transforming aspect of the wisdom. So that’s what also inspired me to focus on writing this book.
Like Management Sutra and as you rightly said Prabhuji, corporate consciousness is very important because leaders are very responsible people in the society I think and that will help them a lot. The book is depicted as a conversation between two corporate leaders who are on a retreat and they discuss about how leadership today can be informed and refined through the wisdom of the Bhagavad Gita. So through interactive discussion between these two people one of them is depicted to be a senior spiritual practitioner and spiritual leader and also corporate leader and the younger person is an entrepreneur who is growing and so practical questions about leadership about Bhagavad Gita about daily life are there and ten broad principles just being a visionary, being resilient, being sensitive, being farsighted all these are talked about and how these virtues can be developed through the Bhagavad Gita is explained.
Wow, that sounds very interesting. So how is Bhagavad Gita related to leadership Prabhuji? Three broad ways. First is the Bhagavad Gita is a conversation between leaders.
Krishna and Arjuna themselves are leaders in very significant capacities. Secondly, one of the key aspects of leadership is decision making. That leaders are meant to take judicious decisions that can benefit not only them but everyone else.
So the whole purpose of speaking the Gita was because Arjuna was not able to take a sound decision. And he turned to Krishna and yes the Gita is a philosophical book but the philosophy is meant to help him take a good decision. So the Gita is not just about giving out decisions but it is about outlining a sound basis for a decision making process.
Wow, that sounds interesting. So many times we are also on the crossroad of our life you know where we need to make decisions and sometimes we are very confused you know so what can be a proper decision. So I think the Gita can also help in that.
So Prabhuji regarding this book it says Gita for the CEO. So is this book meant only for the CEO? What if somebody is not CEO? Can also he refer this book and get benefited by this book? Yes definitely. The book is only meant for CEOs and everybody is meant to be a CEO of their own life.
Wow. We have to be the chief executing officer for our own life. Nobody can help us unless we take responsibility as they say even God helps those who help themselves.
So I talk about three things. I use acronym SIP. So S is self-leadership.
Everyone of us has to become a leader of ourselves. In the sense that there are so many desires, fears, grievances, all pulling us in different directions. Unless we bring all of them together under an overarching purpose, unless there is some way we are leading ourselves, we will not be effective in our lives.
And for that purpose, I think we need to know about our self. Exactly. So self-leadership is the first thing.
Second is everyone of us is an informal leader. That is I. We may not be in a position of leadership. Every parent is a leader.
Every person in a social circle is influencing others. So I talk about there is a position of leadership and there is a disposition of leadership. So if you consider four quadrants, somebody has either the position or the disposition, their life will just pass away and they will not do anything of great significance, neither good nor bad.
Now many of us may seek the position, if only I had a bigger position in my company, if in society people respected me more, now it is on social media, if people were following me more, then I could do so much good. So everybody looks for a position. But to have a position without the disposition can be disastrous.
In fact, the whole Bhagavad Gita is spoken because there was a war and that war happened because there were two people on the opposite side who had the position of leadership without the disposition of leadership. That is Duryodhana and Dhritarashtra. Now if somebody has the position and the disposition both, that is the best.
They can be effective, they will have power and they will use it constructively. But if somebody may have the disposition of leadership, they may not have the position, then still they can do good to others. So what I talk about leadership is not so much about the disposition of leadership, it is not so much about how much people value us.
It is about how much value we can add to people’s lives. And that opportunity is there for us in all situations. In that sense, everyone of us is an informal leader.
And the last is SIPP’s potential. Everyone of us has the potentiality for becoming a leader. So we all have hidden talents and gifts which we have been given and through the Bhagavad Gita’s teachings of Sadhana and Seva.
Sadhana is what helps us to connect with the divine and Seva is what removes selfishness from our pursuits and shifts us to a mood of contribution. So through this understanding, we all can actually develop our potential. So the connection that we develop, we gain calmness, we gain clarity, we can look inwards and better understand the gifts that we have.
And through the mood of service, the gifts that we have, we can use for the benefit of others. So the way I explain the teaching of the Gita is that what we have is God’s gift to us. And what we do with what we have is our gift to the world.
So that’s what we are trying to, we all can do. So that potentiality is there in everyone. Definitely, very very interesting Prabhuji and you made it so simple by the acronym SIP and it is basically like leaders in making.
You are saying that everyone is an informal leader and it’s a potential leader and we can actually learn also the principles of leadership from Bhagavad Gita. But Bhagavad Gita in general, if you see like we see around the world, it is often referred as a devotional book or maybe those who are like in their fag end of their life, they should read Bhagavad Gita and it’s not meant for like youth or the leaders or particularly the corporate leaders. So how can they also get an inspiration you know by reading this text and apply in their life? Yes.
I think again three things. Bhagavad Gita can be read by anyone and it is a devotional book. It is a book for those who want to focus on spiritual growth at the end of their lives but it is so much more than that.
Arjuna himself was not at the end of his life. Arjuna was in the prime of his life about to fight the biggest war of his life. So it added value to him at that particular time and the Gita can do the same for all of us.
So broadly speaking rather than simply going along by how the book has been pursued by us in our past, we can let the book speak for itself. If we look at the teachings of the Gita, they have inspired people all over the world. In the West, Ralph Aldo Emerson and Thoreau, in India Gandhiji and so many other people have read the Bhagavad Gita and they have contributed to society through that.
And especially in today’s world, in the Western world, the Gita from India and the Art of War from China, these are seen as very influential books for learning leadership even in the Western world. So it has a lot of potential for wisdom that we can apply in our lives in the here and now. Yes, definitely, Pupulji, it’s very important because the leaders are influencers and whatever decision they take influences not only their life but the lives of many others and particularly when we talk about the corporate world.
So nowadays, Pupulji, you see that the leaders or I would say the people in the corporate world are in a different zone like there is so much of work stress and the life is so fast and so many, what are the challenges in your view which you would have come across when you give talk in the corporate world as well as in the universities, what is the factor which is the most challenging which they are facing in today’s world and what opportunity you know this wisdom can provide to them so that they can align with their work life balance and also lead a wonderful life. Yes, I feel all the challenges that are faced ultimately boil down to discouragement. Life is difficult, there is stress, there is anxiety, there is depression, so ultimately everybody gets this question that what am I doing? Is it really worth it? I am facing so many difficulties and leadership means actually facing more difficulties than everyone else.
Definitely. So then is it really worth it? So, at the start of the Bhagavad Gita Arjuna puts aside his bow. I can’t fight.
He becomes rejected. But by the end of the Gita Arjuna has picked up his bow with readiness to fight. So that bow of Arjuna represents our enthusiasm, our determination.
So life may batter us and shatter us. And give lot of discouragement. Yes, but the Gita’s message, like it lifted Arjuna up, it can lift all of us up.
And how does it do that? It gives us a bigger vision of what we are doing in life. Consider three teachers who are teaching in adjacent classrooms in a school. Say we go and ask the teachers, each of them one by one, what are you doing? And the third teacher says, I am trying to shape the minds of those who will be shaping the future of the world.
Now who will be more inspired? The third one definitely. So similarly, and he’ll be happy also. Exactly.
So the Gita answers see that, we are not just alone trying to struggle and make a mark in the world. We are parts of a far higher reality. We are parts of the divine.
And each one of us has a part in the divine plan. So leadership can be, you know, people are so dumb and I just have to get them to listen so that I can do this task and I can rise in my hierarchy and become big. That could be one way of looking at leadership.
You can look down at people and see people are dumb and they don’t listen to me. Another could be leadership is the way I will get fame and power and glory and that’s what I’m looking for. Third could be that each one of us has a spark of the divine within.
Each one of us has great potential. And if we have the opportunity to help others, to bring out their potential, the greatest leaders are not just those who do great things themselves or those who inspire others to do great things, but those who inspire others to inspire others to do great things. So, if we can do that and each one of us has the potential to do that, our life can be a means by which higher wisdom and higher energy can act to us and we can become an instrument of divine compassion, of divine creativity, of divine agency for bringing about a better world externally and a better heart internally.
So, that is how the Gita gives us a grand vision for our life and by the grandness of that vision, the discouragement that can come from our immediate challenges in life can be overcome. Wow. So, so nice Roji actually.
So, this is very very important to be enthused to get encouraged in our life otherwise many times life gives so much of challenges that the people get discouraged. So, Roji here considering Arjuna who is the central focus of Gita, considering him as the CEO, you know like, so for anybody he gets like education you know by two ways in his life. So, one is basically the formal education by way of the school and universities and other is the family education which somebody the values which you get in life.
So, many times we see that in Arjuna’s case both were best. You know the family education was given by none other than Bhishma Pitama who himself was you know like disciple of of Brahaspati and also he got formal education from Dronacharya which was like Harvard University at that time for Arjuna. Still he was not able to make a decision in his life.
So, many times like you know my question is coming that the CEO or the leaders might have best of the education in their life you know but many a times there is something which actually prevents them to to actually take the right decision or maybe you know to control over their emotions and all those things. So, will this book or may be Bhagavad Gita in general will help in this situation? Yes, definitely. One of the things the Bhagavad Gita acknowledges is that life is tough.
Yes. And life is tough not just because difficulties come in our life. There are three levels.
One is bad things happen to us. Yes. That is difficult to deal with.
Bad things are done to us by somebody. That is first is adversity second is atrocity. Atrocity.
But the most difficult situation is when bad thing has to be done by us. That means we are in a situation where we just don’t have any good choices. Somebody is the leader of a company and the economy has gone down and they have to fire people.
They don’t want to but they have to. So, that is the time when responsible people suffer from agony. The agony of making difficult decisions.
Correct. So, Arjuna had adversity atrocity throughout his life but at the time of the Bhagavad Gita he faced agony. So, he had an extremely difficult decision to do.
And some people say Arjuna just became scared of fighting. He had an attack of nerves. Yes.
But in the entire first chapter of the Bhagavad Gita where Arjuna is expressing his reservations about fighting not once does he mention fear of his own death. His concern is am I doing the right thing? Is fighting the right thing to do? What will be the consequences for the dynasty? What will be the consequences for society? Correct. So, imagine if a CEO has to declare the company bankrupt.
Then their concern could be hey, I bought this mansion. How will I pay the installments for the mansion? Or their concern could be we have 300 employees. What will happen to their families? So, the anxiety might be there but the level of anxiety also reveals the level of responsibility of a person.
So, Arjuna’s anxiety also shows his responsibility. So, yes, life is tough and we will have difficulties even the best of us, people who may be very well educated in terms of skills and values, they will also face difficulties. But through the Gita’s wisdom, we will be able to not only go through that difficulty but also grow through it.
Thank you so much. Just a very last question which generally is there in everyone’s mind. Many a time, people, particularly those who are in the corporate world or who are very workaholic actually, they just say that work is worship.
You know, I have no time for your Gita, I have no time for everybody. How does this book help to overcome that concept or really understand that how work is worship? Yes, the Gita specifically says, through your work, worship that Lord. It is not work is worship, it is work as worship.
Okay, so work is a medium of worship. Yes, work needs to be done in the mood of worship. Perfect.
So, now, work is worship can be good as an ethical principle that no worker should be demeaned because you are doing a low quality work. So, everybody should be respected. So, for respecting all work and all workers, that is a fine ethical principle.
But it is not a philosophical principle. Why? Because work engages and entangles us in the world. Correct.
And it consumes our consciousness. A person who is constantly working will hardly ever think of worship or think of any higher reality. He will not get time.
Not even time, along with the mental space will not be there. We can pretend that oh, I am always, I am doing it all for God. But the God that we are working for will be our own ego in due course of time.
What they say, every good cause, often noble intentions start off as a good cause, but after that they just become a business and then they become a racket. So, unless we have time exclusively devoted for having our spiritual connection through worship, done exclusively, our work will not be done in a mode of worship. So, the Gita says, remember me and fight.
So, the remember me part is the connection that we establish, that is the sadhana and fight is the contribution, the seva. So, yes, when we give time for worship exclusively, then we will have the consciousness by which even our work can be done in a mode of worship. Wow.
So, this is very nice, you know, to know that work is actually a medium or you know, a tool, you know, by which you can worship the lord. Yes. And it itself, work itself is not actually a worship.
So, if we conclude this point, now, god is present in the temple, god is also present in our office, god is also present in our wherever our workplace may be. Yes. But, although god is everywhere, we can’t perceive him everywhere.
It’s like water is everywhere as water vapor. Yes. But we can’t hang out our tongue and get water.
We have to go to a place where there is water available. Correct. So, when we place ourselves in that atmosphere where we can experience the presence of god tangibly through activities of worship, then, with that sensitized consciousness, when we work, we will be able to perceive the hand of god in our life, we will be able to act in the mood of service to god.
And that’s how work becomes worship. Thank you. Thank you Prabhuji.
So, I think these are such a wonderful concept which I think you have enumerated in this book and also it will definitely help all the leaders and the CEO as you very rightly said, indeed I learned this concept today that everyone is CEO in their own life because they are CEO of their own life, you know, their own self. So, I think, I am sure Prabhuji, this book is going to inspire everybody who are the CEO of their own life and also the corporate leaders, the corporate world CEOs and thank you for having time with us and looking forward to go through this book and also to share this book with many of my corporate friends. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.