Timeless Leadership Lessons From The Bhagavad Gita

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
One with steady wisdom. How this particular term from Gita can actually help the court to take the pressure to make correct decisions whatever project they are having.
Recently there was news that Narayan Mukti said that 16 hours of working should be there. Recently Mahindra said that Sunday should also be a working. What Gita suggests for this? He has explored the world through his exploration.
He has written 30 books and in those 30 books he has explored different human behaviours whether it is through Gita or through Shri Krishna. So sir, welcome to the show. It is a delight to be here.
I was talking to another book lover. It is a matter of I am in America and London. In London there is a book review, in America there is a book review, in New York there is a book review, in India there is a forum of book lovers.
Especially in alternative media or social media. I think you are among the few. So I am so happy to be here.
I have always believed that books, the saying is very old, books are the ocean of knowledge. Nowadays people say that because of OTT and screen, the trend of books is decreasing. I still believe that no one can replace books.
Books have a place, they belong to books. It just needs to be explored. I don’t say that I used to read so many books since childhood.
But when I have started reading books, for me screen has become second and books have become first. The main difference between books and TV is that in TV somebody else is imagining the world and giving it to you. In books we have to imagine ourselves.
It has an autonomy, it increases our creativity. So it is a very different experience. It will be a novel and a movie.
The movie will be a little entertaining. But actually the experience of reading a book is very different. Before coming to bhakti, before reading Bhagavad Gita, I used to read some novels.
So whether it is Jane Austen or Annette Blyton or whatever it is. So watching those movies was not fun. In reading books, it is actually fun.
You get your own imagination. Exactly. So sir, we will come to the journey of books later.
What we have come to talk mainly is Gita for the CEO. So we will talk about the importance of Gita in professional life in detail. But when a child is born, he is not a monk.
Exactly. Or his thinking is not of a monk. Or his thinking is not of spirituality.
I believe that when a child comes out of the womb, he is born with a God-gifted spirituality. And he slowly forgets that spirituality in his life. Because of the various parts of life and the regular things.
But to be a monk, there is something which ignites back. So what is your journey of becoming a monk? Because you are an electronic telecommunication engineer. You have worked in Patni Computers.
It was a complete normal life. And then a sudden shift. How this all happens? I think there were three stages in this.
When I was one year old, I had polio. My mother took me for polio vaccine. But there was a small town.
The fridge in which the vaccine was kept, the fridge power went off. So the dose of vaccine increased. And then I got polio from that vaccine.
Of course, this is not a campaign against vaccines. But I don’t remember. I was walking normally and suddenly I fell.
And then I couldn’t walk. But what I remember is that I was 2.5-3 years old. Then some distant relatives came to meet us.
And they were consoling my mother. It was very bad that your child got polio. And I still remember my mother’s words.
Very clearly, with great confidence and clarity. Whatever is lacking in the body, God will give it to him in his intellect. Whatever he lacks physically, God will provide him intellectually.
So there are some sentences that keep influencing us in life. And different things influence those sentences. So first, I registered the intellectual part.
God is not registered. Who is God? What is God? But when I was growing up, I couldn’t play with other kids outdoors. But when I started studying, I used to read very quickly.
I could understand well. I could also speak and remember. So in a way, this awareness came in the background that life is unfair.
I didn’t do anything to get polio. But I didn’t do anything to get more intelligence than polio. So life is, in one sense, fairly unfair.
Sometimes we get less, sometimes we get more. So that was, I think, the first start of some bigger awareness. So after that, when I was a kid, I used to read Bhagavad Gita.
It was in a Hindu family. It was in a Brahmin family. So remember the shlokas.
Do some shlokas. Go to competitions. But from childhood, my intellectual and educational side developed a lot.
And I had a lot of faith in the power of education. That through that, individuals transform. Not just doors for employment, but doors for a whole new universe of experience and life.
So when I was in school, after 10th, I started free tuitions. I started with some friends who were not so good in studies. I used to help other students in studies.
But when I went into engineering, the first thing was, because of polio, my intellectual and educational side came into focus. Then when I was in 10th, when Bhagavad Gita says, now I see how I have seen many things of Bhagavad Gita in my life. So the day I got the result of 10th, in Maharashtra, at that time, I got an award.
So the district collector came to our house. Because I had polio, so we used to come to his house. But he said, we will come to your house.
And he was a big celebrity. My photo came in all the newspapers. My parents’ and my brother’s.
And that same night, I came to know that my mother had stage 4 blood cancer. So it was very late. Within a month, she passed away.
So since then, I started thinking, what is the meaning of life? My father’s job was a bit of a travelling job. He was in the government, but he was in the field publicity office. So I was very close to my mother.
So then I started thinking, what really matters in life? There is education, but education does not really replace connection. Relationships are still important. So since then, I started studying philosophical and spiritual.
I don’t think I was ever frustrated with life. But the question was, what really matters? So I started thinking about that. And because I didn’t know anything else, I started focusing more on education.
I had a dream since childhood, that I wanted to be the number one. Not just in my class, in my whole division, my university, like that, number one. And I got into engineering.
So when I was studying engineering, I gave my GRE in the third year. And because since childhood, I liked English a lot. I was in love with languages in general.
So I used to read dictionaries and memorize words as a hobby. So generally, Indians have a problem with English in GRE. In Maths and Analytical Algebra, anyway, we are very good.
So I was good in English. So I came first in the entire state of Maharashtra. Out of 3,000, you got 2340.
Yeah, out of 2400, I got 2350. So, I was an instant celebrity. And then, but still, I noticed that, when Mark Shea came from POST, I didn’t have that many emails.
So when he came, I was so happy, I was on top of the world. But after 5 minutes, I realized that seeing Mark Shea doesn’t give me any joy. When others congratulate you, that’s when you feel happy.
And a lot of people congratulated me. But what happened, after one, the three friends, they were not my close friends, but they forgot to congratulate me. So when the first one didn’t congratulate me, I got a little annoyed.
The second one didn’t congratulate me, so I got a little irritated. When the third one didn’t congratulate me, I got a little enraged. I couldn’t even tell him that you’re not congratulating me.
So that’s when I realized that I was looking at myself from above. So this happens in a lot of my life. It’s almost like a conceptual out-of-body experience.
I was like, wait. You were thinking that you’d be happy But if you’re in this situation, and instead of being happy, you’re more dependent on others for your own happiness. First, you could have spent time with your friends, but not now.
Now you’re in such a hurry. So I saw a glimpse of my future life. I thought I’d go to America, to some Ivy League university.
I had an uncle in America. And he had his own company, so he wanted me to join his company. So I thought I might write some books, win some awards.
But the external dependence would still be there. So I started thinking, what should I do? What should I pursue in my life? That’s when a friend gave me Bhagavad Gita. And this time, I read Bhagavad Gita as a book of wisdom, not a book of religion.
So, the 6th chapter, the 22nd shloka, यम्लब्द्वाचापरंलाभं मन्यतेनाधिकम्ततः यस्मिन्स्तितोन दुखेन गुर्णापिविचाल्यते He’s talking about the state of divine Samadhi. But the Samadhi in Bhagavad Gita is not like going to the Himalayas and staying in Samadhi. It’s an inner connection, a deep inner connection between your soul and the Supreme Soul.
What is the result of that connection? Two things. If you have this connection, आप किसी और किछ पीछे तुर्ष्णा नहीं रखोगे ऐसे नहीं कि आप पर्सू नहीं करोगे पर तुर्ष्णा नहीं रहेगा, constant dissatisfaction नहीं रहेगा. और दूसरा है कि कुछ चीज आपे चली जायेगी, तो उससे आप दुखी नहीं हो जाएगी.
तो एक conceptually बोलेगे तो, किसी के बास पचास रुपे है, पचास रुपे मिल जाते हैं, सुखी हो जाता है, पचास रुपे चली जाते हैं, दुखी हो जाता है, पर किसी को पचास क्रोड रुपे मिल गए है, तो भी पचास रुपे आये या जाए, वो फरक नहीं पड़ता है. तो यह जो है, गीता कहते है, यह spiritual contentment है. तो यह spiritual contentment जो है, spiritual enrichment कहा सकते है, वो जो दिव्यस्तर है चेतना का, मैं सोचा कि यह जीवन का उद्देश है.
अगर यह मिल जाएगा, तो सही में सन्तुष्ट हो जाओंगा मैं. तो फिर अभी तक कोई जर्नी है, मैं चल रही है, it’s a long way away, पर तब से I decided that I wanted to pursue something internal, more than external. पर क्या कभी कोई इंसान सन्तुष्ट हो सकता है? और क्या सन्तुष्ट हो जाने से, एक जीवन की गती रुक नहीं जाती? मान लेजिये मेरे पास कुछ खाना, खाने के लिए है नहीं, और मैं उताला होके दूनता हूँ, क्या है कोई मुझे खाने को दे ले, और दूसरा है कि मेरे पास खाने के लिए इतना है, कि मैं दून रहा हूँ, किसके हाथ मैं शेयर करूँगा, तो दोनों में अक्टिविटी एक ही है, पर जो पुजिशन है बिल्कुल अलग है, तो जो gratitude हम कहते हैं, gratitude and dissatisfaction, हम साधारते opposite कहते हैं, पर इस जरूरी नहीं है ऐसे कि gratitude रख सकते हैं हम, और फिर भी ambition रख सकते हैं, gratitude is about valuing what I have, पर जो dissatisfaction होता है, उसका शुरुवात है, devaluing what I have, because I value what I don’t have, जो मेरे पास नहीं है, उसकी इतनी कदर करते हैं, जो है उसको पूरा कदर ही नहीं करते हैं, तो जो है ये दोनों साथ में आ सकते हैं, कि और बहुत कुछ करना है, और बहुत कुछ अनुभव करना है, और बहुत कुछ शेयर करना है, सीखना है, वो हो सकता है, पर जो है मेरे पास, उसका भी value होना चाहिए, तो जो गीता में तीन गुण बता है, सत्व, रजस और तमस, तो ये तीन गुण जो होते हैं, ये एकदर से तीन mental gear के समान है, गाड़ी होती है, सत्व, रजस और तमस, So, just to complete this, Satisfaction can be in all three qualities.
So, if there is satisfaction in Tamoguna, what will happen with that? That person will become completely lethargic. I drank alcohol, I am satisfied with alcohol, what else do I have to do? If there is satisfaction in Satvaguna, then what happens? Whatever I have, it has a lot of value, I am grateful that I have this for this. But there is more, which I want to do, which I want to contribute, which I want to experience.
But in Rajoguna, what I have, it has no satisfaction. Because it has something better than me. It has something good, which I don’t have.
True. Before we go back to the content of the book, I would like to know a little more about your relationship with your mother. Yes.
Thank you for asking that. The thing is, for the past ten years, I have been living in the US for 8-9 months. I have been living in the US for 4-5 months, then in England, then in Australia, New Zealand.
So, I spend a lot of time with my family there. And the biggest challenge there is parenting. Because there is one thing about Indians, that there is a little controversy on NRI in America, that they should get an H1 visa or not.
But Indians are known to be very responsible parents. So, how to do parenting in western countries, because the values are very different there, there are distractions. It is also there in India, but there is a lot of concern.
So, parenting is a very big responsibility. Especially, when families break up, then what effect does it have on the children. I go to colleges and do outreach.
So, actually, this traveling across the world, it has increased my awareness towards my parents. Because I see so many parents, so many children, damaged by negligent parents. Because, parents are giving drugs, parents are doing this and that, parents are stuck in their own ambitions.
So, it has a lot of effect on the children. So, sometimes Indian kids feel that our parents are very overbearing, do this, do that, they control a lot. It is possible, it is more, but actually, that overbearing is because of caring.
And caring parents are a hundred times better than negligent parents. But, it is not easy to raise an ordinary kid. It is more difficult So, my mother was always affirming that she always had confidence in me.
I think two things, she was not very religious, but she had religious values. She was also upstanding. She used to work in a bank.
And, very firm woman. So, my relationship with her was that she used to travel to my father’s job. So, whatever happened in my life, I used to talk to her.
And, she was always there to guide me. So, I think at one time, we tried various treatments for my leg. So, once, there was an alternative therapy.
So, they said, you will have to come here and get a massage. So, for 9 months, without pay leave, she used to work in a bank. And, she came and stayed with me in Sangli.
We did a lot of exercises. She had recovered a lot. But, later she died.
So, she sacrificed enormously. So, I was very blessed. Like, people say, for a child, the first manifestation of God is the mother and father.
When I was in America, I was in an interfaith conference. So, now, in western countries, especially in Europe, there is a lot of atheism. But, one of the reasons, which is less analysed, is the breakdown of the family structure.
What happens is that, the parents are the first awareness that there is some bigger reality that cares for me. But, parents only don’t care for me. So, there is some other reality that cares for me, which is difficult to realise.
I have a question in my mind. I will leave it to you if you want to answer it or not. I became a monk later.
I am not talking only about you. Generally, teenagers or people in their 20s or 30s realise spirituality and they convert into monks. I have done a podcast with some previous monks also.
It’s a feeling. All teenagers are the same. Obviously, there is a distraction.
If you are a boy, you are attracted towards a girl. Or if you are a girl, you are attracted towards a boy. It’s a natural feeling.
It’s a godness feeling that will come. How being a monk, these things are controlled? When it came to my mind that I want to be a monk, how you left all those distractions? How this education or Gita helped you in those things? I will leave it to you if you want to answer it or not. Sure, I can answer that.
See, Gita tells us that we all have a nature which comes from our past karma. Somehow, I was not too much into, not that I was not attracted to girls, but I was not too much infatuated in my childhood also. I was a hardline conservative.
I am not like that now. When I was in our school, convent school, they were going to do this was early 90s. So, I actually made a protest agitation against it.
This is a school in India, not a school in America. This should not be done. So, as I was saying, there was another thread of thought I wanted to take that I had a lot of faith in education and I always wanted to do something in education.
And, actually, for me, being a monk is only one part of my identity. We all have many roles. You are an author, you are an electronics engineer, you are a podcaster.
In my set of identities, monk is like a very small part of my identity. Although others see that prominently. I am physically handicapped, I have special needs.
But for me, my crutches are like my glasses. Without glasses, I can’t see. But okay, put on the glasses and move on with life.
Pick up the crutches and move on with life. So, I never really thought I am becoming a monk. So, I was attracted to the Gita and I wanted to study the Gita.
I wanted to teach the Gita. And monkhood became the natural means by which I could teach the Gita. So, I will tell how that happened.
When I was in college, I joined a social welfare organization and I focused on the educational wing of them. there used to be a slum near the college. We used to go there and teach the kids history, geography, English, maths.
So, the kids started talking. Even after the class, I noticed that there was domestic violence. And when I used to talk to their father, they were actually nice people.
They thanked me that I am coming and teaching their children. And the kids used to say that when they drink alcohol, they become something different. So, that’s when I thought that I should do something.
I started thinking that there is a war going on in their homes. What was the date of World War I? What was the date of World War II? What exactly will they gain by learning that? I should do something. So, we went into detox.
How can we free people from intoxication? We called some experts. We gave talks. It was a small slum.
Everyone decided to quit alcohol. And we were very happy. And then our semester got over when we came back.
I was not alone. But I am not talking the royal me. So, when I came back, I saw that not only the father, but the kids also started drinking alcohol.
So, what happened was there was a local municipality election and a candidate filled a truck and distributed alcohol to them. So, that’s when I started thinking that we are opening doors for people through education. But the doors that we have to open in the future have trap doors at the bottom and they fall down.
So, the trap doors are trapped. And it’s not that they are illiterate. I was in one of the top engineering colleges.
But I saw people there also getting into drugs. I had a close friend who was getting into alcohol. And it’s not that everyone else was getting into it.
I used to get angry a lot when I was a kid. So, a good vocabulary and a bad temper are a deadly combination. So, what happens? You go to an engineering college and get more exposed.
Exactly. So, if someone gets angry, he will either say something or shout. But if someone has a good vocabulary or intelligence, he will cut the pain for the rest of his life.
So, I realized that I have to get a handle on my anger. Never violent too much. So, I was thinking about how to do it.
So, that was another trend. I reached the There are some Bhagavad Gita shlokas that are like living truths for me. So, 336 is Atake na prayuktoyam Paapam charati purushah Anicchan api varshneyam Bala divaniyojitah Arjun is asking God What is that power that makes us do self-destructive things? It feels like I don’t want to do it but it is forcing me to do it.
So, when I read this question, this is my question also. So, it took me time to understand the answer. It goes in the Tattva Gyan of the Gita.
But when I understood, I started meditating on the basis of the Gita. In our tradition, we chant the Hare Krishna mantra. So, I started meditating on the Gita.
I started following the principles. My anger went down substantially. I told my friend.
He said, alcohol just gave up immediately. So, I felt this is powerful. I was in my third year.
I had just completed my GRE. So, I thought I want to share the Gita. I used to invite a Gita teacher in my hostel.
He was a monk. I had an opportunity. I had an invitation from several universities in America.
I wanted to read the Gita first and then decide what I wanted to do. So, when I was working in a company, I used to go to some colleges and study groups based on the Gita. So, once I had a small study group.
My boss told me that I have to stay back because there is a deadline. I said, I will be back early tomorrow. He said, you have to stay back today.
So, I tried to arrange someone else but there was no one available. So, I had to cancel the study group. I was going back from the company at midnight.
So, I thought if I am not coding the software, there are thousands of other people who can do it. Maybe they can do better than me. But if I am not teaching Bhagavad Gita, then how many people are there to teach it? So, I thought I can contribute to society much better.
I can contribute more if I am teaching Bhagavad Gita or coding the software. So, becoming a monk was never prominent in my mind. Learning the Gita and explaining the Gita.
That was the basis for my decision. And once I was a monk, it was just a means for that. So, we also have a fulfilling relationship.
So, yes, there is no male-female relationship. But I think if you have a passion for your life, then that thing becomes manageable. So, our focus is not on what you give up.
It’s focus on what you take up. If you are just leaving something and there is nothing else to do. If you are becoming a monk to become a monk, then it will not stay for long.
In Sanskrit, the word monk is Brahmachari. So, what is the literal meaning of Brahmachari? Brahmacharati iti Brahmachari. The one who is walking in Brahman.
The one who is living in Brahman. The one who is trying to live on the spiritual level. The one who is maintaining the spiritual connection.
That is a Brahmachari. So, I think the decision of being a monk was based on my faith in education and knowledge that by sharing knowledge, I can make my own life better and make others life better. So, it was an offshoot of that only.
Okay. Coming back to Gita. You have written a book also on Gita for CEO.
Generally, people think that Gita is a religious text. What’s your view? Is it a religious text or is it something different? And another caution to this. Why we are not emphasizing to teach Gita in schools.
Gita is so powerful. If it is taught from childhood, how it can change the world. Yes.
See, Gita is a lot of things. Is it a religious book? We can say that it has something about devotion, about the glory of God. So, in a way, we can say it is a religious book.
Millions of Hindus believe in it. So, I will not say it is not a religious book. But to say it is only a religious book, that is a serious misrepresentation.
Because it is a context of Gita. The beginning is not who is God and how to worship God. Arjun comes to fight and Gita begins with an ethical crisis.
So, when Arjun comes to fight, the whole decision is that we have to fight. We are very confident to fight. But later, when Arjun comes between the two armies, he actually registers that all these are my relatives.
Here is my Guru. Here is my Grandfather. How can I fight with them? Is it worth fighting for a state? So, Arjun has two duties.
One is his Kshatriya Dharma. Kshatriyas are basically protectors of society. Martial protectors.
Like Guardians of the Galaxy. They are guardians. So, they have to fight and kill the aggressors.
So, their Kshatriya Dharma is that you kill. They are on the other side. They are aggressors.
It is necessary to kill them. But Arjun also has a Kul Dharma. These are my Kul people.
How can I destroy them? So, normally we have different roles. So, if you are in the office, then you have a professional role. If you are a parent, then you have a parental role.
So, there is an urgent deadline meeting. There is a meeting of your parent-teachers. So, Arjun is being pulled by two things.
Kshatriya duty. If you do Kshatriya Dharma, then you have to fight. If you do Kul Dharma, then you don’t have to fight.
So, then Arjun says that he is ready to fight. Then he says that he will not fight. But Arjun thinks that even if he does not fight, the war is going to happen.
Duryodhana is not going to stop. The war will be more violent. If he is not there, then Pandavas will be destroyed.
If the Pandavas lose, then Duryodhana will continue his atrocities. Then Arjun asks Krishna what is Dharma? Dharma here is nothing to do with religion. पृच्चामित्वां धर्मसमूरचेता What is the right thing to do? Here, right is not so much in terms of morality.
It is also in terms of meaning. What will make my life meaningful? How will my life be meaningful? This question is a human question. And not just a human question, it is universal for humanity but especially for leadership.
Why? Because Arjun is a leader. Krishna is also a leader. Now, there is a war going on in Ukraine and Russia.
It should continue. It should stop completely. Temporarily stop.
This is a decision of leaders. So, the Gita is a conversation among leaders. And the topic of conversation has great stakes.
The decision will affect many people. That is also a sign of leadership. In that sense, it is very much a book about leadership.
Great. Let me tell you one thing. How in a secular corporate environment because corporate environment is a secular corporate environment.
How Gita principles can help corporate employees or the corporate world? I think that is what your book was also talking about. I can talk about 3-4 different things but let’s start with the first. I like to use the word idea.
Four teachings of the Gita. I is identity. Because Gita says that our identity is multilevel.
Now, I am an Indian, you are an Indian. This is our identity. So, maybe I am a South Indian, you are a North Indian.
This can be an identity. But, there are different identities. And sometimes, these two identities attract us differently.
So, what happens to Arjun? When he is not able to understand what he has to do, he is not able to understand. So, it is important to understand who I am. So, what happens in corporate world is what we call work-life balance.
If you consider that as one factor. So, then, on a secular level, it is important for a person to understand what his identity is. So, Gita says that if you have a functional role, you make that your identity.
So, what will happen with that? If someone thinks that how much money I am earning, that is my identity. So, my self-worth becomes my net worth. And if the stock market crashes, if the money is gone, then who am I? The mental health problems that happen a lot of times, everyone has problems in their life.
But, this is an event and this is its experience. So, Gita says that how do we experience that event Say, suppose, we lose money, we lose our job, our relationship breaks. So, that loss has happened.
But, our identity decides that I have lost, that is an objective. I am lost. I don’t know what to do.
Or, I am a loser. When a person starts thinking like this, then he will go into complete depression. And on top of that, if I think that I am a loser, then if we are in a relationship with a loser, then we will try to break up completely.
As quickly as possible. But, we can’t break up on our own. And ultimately, suicide is an attempt to break up with oneself.
So, the loss that is going to happen to everyone, if our identity is not stable, then what will happen? The result of that loss will be very devastating. So, Gita says that we have a functional identity, which can be according to job, nationality, income level, relationship status, and under that, there is a fundamental identity. In Sanskrit, it is called a Vyavaharik identity.
But, it is a Parmarthik identity. What is that? We are the soul. We are a part of God.
And, this identity will never leave us. So, if we are stable on this identity, then we will have After that, I am a soul. I am a destructive soul.
And, I am a soul. I am playing the role of an Indian. I am playing the role of an engineer.
I am playing the role of a monk. So, these are the roles. If we are successful in these roles, then it is good.
If we are not successful in these roles, then it is not good. But, it is not the end of the world. So, the identity, the identity identity It is vital for everyone.
If our identity becomes solid, then the mental health problems will be reduced. So, this is where meditation comes in. This is where prayer comes in.
What happens with spiritual growth is that our own identity makes grounding, anchoring better. So, that way, in the corporate stress, in the secular environment, understanding our core identity can bring a significant level of stability and security. One more thing, what Gita says, don’t worry about the results.
But, the corporate world talks about the results. Targets, KPIs, KRAs. How is this connected? Some people in Gita, if we remove them from the context of Gita, then it becomes impractical.
I was giving a lecture at Harvard. There was an Islamic studies, Islamic professor, he was saying, I have read the Bhagavad Gita. It doesn’t make sense.
People have ambition, people feel ambitious because they have a goal. If you don’t have a goal, how will you do anything? It is completely impractical. I told him, actually, the shloka is 247.
कर्मन्नेवाधिकारस्ते माफलेशु कदाचन. कर्म करो पर फलसे आसक्तमतरवाप. 6 shloka before that is 241.
In Gita, विवसायात्मिका बुद्धी एकेह कूर्णन्दना. Keep one body. If you don’t keep one body, बहुषाखाय अनन्ताश्य बुद्धयो विवसायि नाम अगर आप एक देह नहीं होगा तो हजाद दिस्वाँ में चला जाओगे आप.
Those who commit to nothing are distracted by everything. तो गीता देह रखने के खिलाब बिल्कुल नहीं है. अगर गीता के बाद महावारत युद्ध होता है, अर्जुन वो गीता सुनके ही युद्ध करते हैं.
तो तभी रोज अर्जुन वार स्ट्रेटेजी में गोल रख रहे हैं. Most famously, चवदवे दिन में अर्जुन रत लितते है कि मैं आज जैदरत का बद करूँगा. तभी क्रिषन अर्जुन से नहीं कहते हैं कि है, गीता भूल गया है क्या तू? नहीं, तो क्या है इसमें? एक डेफिनेशनल डिफरेंस है, गोल्स और रिजाल्स.
गोल्स बतलब धेय, रिजाल्स है फल, ये तोनों बहुत अलग हैं. गोल्स are what we set before we do an activity. गोल्स रखने से मुझे प्रेड़ना मिलेगी, मुझे ऐसे करना है, मुझे महनत करनी है और जो रिजाल्स है, वो हमारे कर्म करनी के बाद आते हैं.
तो योही शलोक जो है, उसका अगला पार्ट क्या है? मा कर्मफल हे तुर्भुर ये मत समझो कि तुम केबल अकेले अपने कर्म के फल के कारण हूँ. क्यों अभी ऐसे कहना है? क्योंकि क्या है, कि जब हम कारे करते हैं, तो हम सोचते है मैंने 100 units का कारे किया है, तो मुझे 100 units का फल मिलना चाहिए. पर कई बार ऐसे होता है, कि मैं 100 units का कारे करता हूँ, तो मुझे 10 units का फल मिलता है.
वह चीज़ हमें बहुत यादाती है, शायद हम एक प्रोजेक्ट में लीडिंग रोल करते हैं, पर 10 लोगों में हमारा एक नाम आजाता है, कोई जाधा special credit देता ही नहीं हमको. यह unfair लगता है, पर कभी भी ऐसे भी होता है, कि हम 10 units का कारे करते हैं, 100 units का credit मिलता हैं. हम शायद एक टीम में last stages में आते हैं प्रोजेक्ट के, और प्रोजेक्ट बहुत successful होता है, हमको भी successful मान लेते हैं.
इंडिया जब world cup जीती थी, तो एक player था, उसने एक भी match नहीं खेला, पर वो world cup winning team के फोटो में आ गया, उसका फ़ोटो. तो क्या है, कि अभी ऐसे क्यों हो रहा है, तो गीता कहती है, कि ये जो है पूर्वकर्म भी योगदान है था इसमें. तो अगर मैंने 100 कर्म किया है, और 10 का फल आया है, तो उसका मतलब पूर्वकर्म से minus 90 आया है, और मैं 10 कर्म करके 100 का फल आया है, तो मतलब पूर्वकर्म से plus 90 आया है, और ये इतना complex नहीं है, केवल belief की बात नहीं है, अगर मान लिए मैं आपसे बात कर रहा हूँ, और मैं पड़ा कर रहा हूँ, तो इसलिए भगवान बोल रहे है कि गीता में कि आप ज़्यादा result में fixate मत हो जाओ, पर इसका मतलब पूर्वकर्म मतलब नहीं कि result को care मत करो, कि don’t define yourself by the results, तो corporate world में जरूर हमको invest करना है, और आर्जुन जब युद्ध कर रहे है, तो whole heartedly युद्ध करना उनको ज़ुरूरी है, उनको भी goals प्राप्त करने है, पर अगर goals नहीं मिलते हैं, तो don’t let it immediately become a statement about you being a loser, कि मैंने प्रयास किया था, क्या मैंने whole heartedly प्रयास किया था, नहीं किया है, तो मैं कुछ सीख सकता हूँ, कर्म योगा का जो term है, how this can help, क्योंकि आजकल corporate world में there is lot of stress and anxiety, how this कर्म योगा can actually help the employees and the corporate world people to come out from this stress and anxiety things, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, क क्योंकि योगा का जो term है, जो जो वाथ हैं? What time is there in this period? या गबं। सब से? तो यदाऊ? तो मुझे च्यान करनाया है? I am wondering why one month is not enough? But the pitch is such that if it rains, we can’t win.
So there are factors beyond our control. So in the corporate world, this is a kind of technology. So the stress is not because there are too many things to do.
That is for sure. But the stress is because our energy, instead of focusing on what we can do, it goes to what we have to do. So, I can do this, I will do this wholeheartedly.
Later, when I get the power to do that, I will do that. So that reduces the stress a lot. So the stress that comes from workload… See, there is work and workload.
Two different things. Work is the physical list of tasks I have to do. Workload is the mental burden.
I have to do this, I have to do that, I have to do this, I have to do that. How will I do it? So, we have to do the work. And no matter how unreasonable the boss is, he can’t say, you do this and that at the same time.
After doing this, I will do that. So, we can’t change our work. But the workload, the mental pressure that we take, that can be substantially reduced by the philosophy of Karma Yoga.
That according to my present Karma, I can do this, I will do that. And that which is going to happen, from my present Karma, from my past Karma, the acceptance that is necessary, that can come easily from Karma Yoga. What happens is, if we take a paperweight, it falls down, it will get up.
If it is a rubber ball, it will fall down, it will get up. It will fly. The more it falls, the more it will get up.
So, similarly, if we think that everything is happening because of my action, and then despite doing it, there is a failure, then it will break, it will become like a glass paperweight. But we understand that I did the actions, but here there are things beyond my control. Because of which it happened.
So, we will fall and get up. Even after listening to the Gita, Arjun’s son Abhimanyu died. And Abhimanyu was very close to Arjun.
Arjun was shattered. But he sprang up. And the 13th day, which was a big loss for him, the 14th day was the biggest loss for the Kauravas.
When Arjun killed Jaidrath, what happened then? It was a devastating loss of face and morale for the Kauravas. The entire army tried to protect Jaidrath, despite that, Arjun killed him. The point is, Arjun was like a rubber ball, bounced back.
So, the resilience comes from the philosophy of Karma Yoga. We are talking about stress. These days, in the corporate world, there is a lot of common stress.
Because you see, various wars are going on. Economies are going down for the countries. So, the biggest problem people have is job security.
People don’t know that today I am there, tomorrow I am not. This is becoming one of the biggest stress. How can Gita help employees or the people who are working in corporate to come out from this stress? First of all, your identity is not tied to your job.
You are more than your job, you are more than your paycheck. Our identity is multilevel. On a functional level, we need a job, we need money.
But when our self-worth is tied to a professional identity, then it will be very difficult. So, life goes on. If we look at our life, then a lot of big problems have come in everyone’s life.
When I travel, people come and tell me their life stories. Often they tell me their spiritual journey. But the spiritual journey usually starts with some sadness in everyone’s life.
So, every person’s history has a tragedy within it. But despite that, people get up. There is a lot of resilience too.
So, if we look at our own life, then what happens is that we have all gone through a lot of problems. And we have come out of it. So, when we understand from Gita that I am a soul, I am a spiritual being, I am a survivor, I have survived a lot.
So, we don’t catastrophize the problems that we have now. The problems that exist in the world will continue to exist. So, coming to a job, going to a job, this is a very big problem, but it is a problem.
Going to a job security, going to a job security. But what happens is that our mind goes up a lot and goes down a lot. So, we escalate the problems a lot because of our mind.
But if someone is in the ocean, then waves are coming in the ocean. That person will go up and down with the waves. But if a tsunami wave comes, it will be thrown away.
But if he catches an anchor in the waves, then the waves are not going to stop, but what will happen with the anchor? That person will be safe. So, the spirituality that is told in Gita, when we do spiritual practices like meditation, mantra chanting, then we catch the anchor. So, what happens with the anchor is stability.
So, we cannot stop external change, but if we bring inner stability, then the effect of external change will be less on us. So, I say, we can be concerned but not threatened by external change. That is my principle in leadership.
Be concerned but not threatened. Because there is one more thing in corporate, because there are deadlines. So, you are under severe pressure.
You work under pressure, you need to meet those goals, and you have to work in a team, you have to take multiple decisions at a time. So, there is a term in Gita, which I have noted down. Satita Pranjana.
That is actually… Sita Prakya. I am not pronouncing it correctly. One with steady wisdom.
How this particular term from Gita can actually help the corporate people? Yes. To take the pressure, to make correct decisions, whatever project they are handling. This Sita Pragya section comes in Gita 254 to 272.
It comes in the second chapter. And it is one of the most important sections. So, it mainly tells about two things.
It starts with how dependent we are on the externals, and how connected we are to the internals. So, when we… Suppose, as per Gita, there is a visible world. I am looking at you, you are looking at me.
There is a visible reality, and there is an invisible reality. Science also says that black matter, dark matter, dark energy, that is far bigger than what we see. Gita says that there is a material reality and a spiritual reality.
So, when we start in spiritual, if I am here, then the material reality is very big. Material reality means things. I have such a big car, I have such a big house, I have such expensive clothes.
Those things are very important. Spiritual reality means thoughts. So, it doesn’t matter what thoughts come.
We put a lot of energy in improving things, but we put a lot of energy in improving thoughts. But when we grow, we understand that the things are a circle, it starts getting smaller. And our inner world, our spiritual side, starts getting more important.
I can be with the best things, but if my thoughts are jealous, my thoughts are resentful, then I will not be happy. So, the importance of thoughts over things, we understand this in spirituality. So, the way I put it is, science is a study of matter.
And it is a very important field. We are able to broadcast from technology. Science is a study of matter.
Spirituality is a study of what matters. Perfect line. What a line.
In the Gita, we talk about qualities separately. Quality. Now, if we talk about, I am relating everything to corporate because your book talks about the corporate world.
In corporate, when we form a team or a project comes, so there is always a decision need to make, who will handle that project. For example, I am working in a team. Now, my boss knows what is my quality.
And he will obviously assign me that work, which I can handle it. But in corporate, there is always an expectation that you go beyond your qualities. You keep on upgrading yourself and do something that you have not done before.
So, how Gita correlates with this? Because Gita says, find the qualities. Yes. Whereas corporate world says, work beyond your qualities.
Okay, yes. I think there is truth to both of them. In corporate world also, you are told to go beyond your qualities.
But there is also the focus on specialization. Super specialization. Go deep in the area you are going.
Discover your niche in that area. And get established in that niche. So, Gita says, according to our past actions, we all have some talent.
Now, some kids are prodigies. London has got talent. Mumbai has got talent.
Let’s see. There is a 3-4 year old kid. He sings so well.
He plays a good musical instrument. My nephew, he is 3 and a half years old. He has memorized the names of all the countries in the world.
So, some people have extraordinary talent. So, how is it that this talent will be extraordinary to some people and not so extraordinary to others. But we all have a starting point.
When we start, we are not blank slates. We have some natural interests. So, if we discover those natural interests, if we develop them, then there is a lot of potential for us to maximize our contribution.
So, how is it that about self-growth, there are two metaphors we use in Gita. One is growth in material side and the other is growth in spiritual side. So, the growth in material side is like a field.
Now, in the field, we have to sow the right seed and bring it to the harvest. We have to cultivate it there. And the second is that it is a gold mine.
So, I will come to that gold mine part later. In the material side, we have been given a soil first. And in that soil, some seeds will flourish a lot.
Some seeds will not flourish that much. Now, you are an author. You have done engineering studies.
But your passion is in writing. If you would have done some other job with the same passion, then you would not have been so happy doing it. You would not have been so successful doing it.
So, as Gita says, there are two things, that according to our qualities, we feel at home doing it. We feel comfortable doing it. Comfortable not in the comfort zone, but we feel happy doing it.
Contented. And if we have karma, then we are competent in it. We can do it well.
So, if we see comfort and compatibility, then it is a Venn diagram. If someone is able to find its intersection, then that is the place of their passion and purpose in life. So, what to do, I am satisfied.
We can see that, to understand this, we can ask that if the world gives me some recognition, then what will I do? Is there anything that I will do that no one will care about me? Of course, we cannot do it because we want to live in the world, earn money, but what will I do? So, that is our natural home zone. It is comfort. And then we live in a competitive world with others.
What can we do well? So, if we can find these two and grow in that area, then each one of us can make a distinctive contribution. So, sometimes we have to go out of this area. Because of obligations.
Now, Arjun was an expert of fighting with bow and arrow. But sometimes he had to fight with a sword. He had to fight Bhimgada, but sometimes he had to fight Dhanushban.
So, we have to go out of our comfort zone. But we will be best, we will have to go out of our comfort zone and use our natural zone, natural space. But in general, if we grow in the natural space, then we will be very enriched and we can contribute very well in the world.
Recently, there was news that Narayan Murthy said that 16 hours of working should be there. Recently, Mahindra said that Sunday should also be a working. So, what Gita suggests for this? Because when we talk about work-life balance.
Yes. So, can Gita emphasize on these things? Definitely. There are two things.
One is organic and the other is organizational. So, some people have organic passion in some areas. Arjun’s one name is Gudakesh.
Gudakesh means the one who has won over sleep. So, once Arjun was eating food in his Guru’s ashram at night. Then the wind blew and the candle went out.
And then he stopped and then he ate. If my hand can reach my mouth in the dark, if I can eat in the dark, then why can’t I shoot arrows in the dark? And then he started practicing shooting arrows. And then what happened? That became one of the reasons why he was a top archer.
He could shoot accurately just by listening to the sound. So, in a way, Arjun used to practice all night and that’s why he conquered sleep. So, you can say that Arjun was working for 16-18-20 hours.
But no one was imposing it on him. And it wasn’t like Drona said that you all have to work hard like Arjun. Everyone has to become a good archer.
Some people have natural talent in some area. So, there is natural attraction in that and naturally they will go to that area. So, they will go for 16 hours.
Yes, if they do that, they will not feel burdened. They will not feel threatened. If they are not doing it, they will feel that why am I not doing it? But the thing is most people don’t have such passion.
And the balance that we say, balance is a very individual thing. So, no one can say do this for 8 hours, do that for 8 hours, it will be balanced. If you are an author, if you are a reader, then balance means you can sit for 15 hours and read a book also, isn’t it? So, every person has to find his own balance.
So, Narayan Murthy, he is a successful person, respect him for that. He has passion in what he is doing. But expecting that from all employees is not possible.
So, every person has three aspects in life. One is professional, one is familial, and the third is spiritual. You can call it home, office, temple.
So, you don’t have to go to a temple to be spiritual. Although it’s helpful, the atmosphere is good there. So, you have to keep a balance of all three.
That my personal spiritual growth, my relationship growth, and my professional growth. And every person has phases in life. In which phase you have to focus on.
When Dharam Muni comes to meet Yudhishtir, when he becomes Yudhishtir Raja, he says, I told you three things, home, office and profession. He says, Dharma, Artha and Kama. Dharma is about, in this context, about our spiritual growth.
Artha is about our professional growth. And Kama is about our familial growth. He says, don’t do Dharma so much that Artha and Kama goes away.
Don’t go after Artha so much that you forget Dharma and Kama. And don’t go after Kama so much that you forget Dharma and Artha. So, now, who to focus on, that person has to decide.
And balance is contextual. If someone has a newborn baby, then we call it balance. 6 hours sleep, 8 hours sleep.
We sleep. Obviously. This video is going to be very important for Narayan Murthy.
He must definitely see this. When you were telling, I was just correlating something. Recently in my office, someone was saying to me, that you do office, you write books, you do podcasts, you study.
Where do you get so much time? So, I asked one question to him. I said, do you play cricket in the morning? He said, I play cricket daily for 2 hours. I said, do you go to the gym? He said, I go to the gym too.
I said, why do you go? Because you have a passion for that. You love cricket, that’s why every morning you wake up and go to play cricket. You love to go to the gym, so you go to the gym for an hour.
You go with the office. I said, I love to read, I love to write, and I love to be with the intellectual people. So, I take out that time from my time.
For me, it’s my work-life balance. So, the next question comes, when you do podcasts, don’t you get tired? I said, you get tired when you don’t have a passion. You tell me, I will get tired.
That is not my work of interest. But if you ask me to sit and read a book for say, 2 hours, I will not be tired. I can read for 4 hours.
Because I feel that passion is more important and can be more relaxing than anything else. This is my funda. Very true.
In the Gita, Chapter 6, verse 17, we have to be regulated. Yuktaharviharasya Yuktakeshchasya Karmasu So, there are two meanings of Yukta. One meaning of Yukta is regulated.
The other is connected. Yukta is a variant of the word Yoga. Yoga means connected.
So, how do they feel connected with themselves? If we are doing all our activities, we can put it on a spectrum. The activities that give us strength and the activities that take strength from us. People are also like this in our life.
We are very eager to meet some people. We meet some people. When we meet some people, our breath stops.
What an explosion! In English, there are two kinds of people. Some people bring happiness wherever they go. Some people bring happiness whenever they go.
So, it is different. So, now, everyone has to see that their energy balance and the activities that give me strength should be done sufficiently so that I can do the activities that give me strength. No one will have to do the activities that give them strength.
If I am an author, I like writing very much. But I cannot do all the formatting and see how it is done. I cannot do that.
Now, I have to do it. But that is not something which I look forward to. But that is a part of the job of being an author.
So, it is said in the Gita that Krishna says to Arjuna that you are a warrior. Now, you are in a situation that you have to fight against your relatives. But if you stop being a warrior for this, you are giving up everything for one fault.
So, in every situation, we will not like those things. But the thing is that you should not say I don’t like it. Don’t take irreversible decisions based on irreversible emotions.
So, I was concluding that here. What happens is that our emotions say I am feeling very bad, leave me. And today’s young people are very talented, very courageous.
Sometimes they say leave this job if you don’t like it. And what is your plan B? How can you leave this job? So, now you are not liking it but the thing is our emotions are reversible. So, in the Gita, it is said that emotions are also reversible because of the duality.
So, don’t take irreversible decisions based on reversible emotions. And the ultimate irreversible decision is suicide. Because it is tragic.
I have a friend who is a suicide counsellor. He says that many people who were committed to committing suicide but they don’t do it later they find meaningful things in life. But he says just bear it.
Whatever is difficult now will pass away. It won’t last forever. So, I am relating to suicide and I think it is very important that we should talk about that.
Recently you must have seen Quota is very famous for IIT and all those things. And recently I was watching news where I listened that many kids commit suicide under the pressure of what will happen to me, I won’t do well in exams, I won’t do well in IIT. So, what message do you want to give to them being an expert in Gita how Gita can help them to come out from that sort of fear.
Life is a marathon not a sprint. Life is like a 100 mile marathon. It is not a 100 metre sprint.
If you don’t succeed in one exam it is not the end of the world. So, parents are also important. I don’t want to blame anyone but parents have a responsibility to emphasize the importance of exams to their kids.
To tell them the importance that you have to study. But you have to see their psychological state that if you don’t pass in this exam I will still love you, I will still care for you. This is not the end of the world.
So, life is a marathon. And I know in America some of my friends have gone there from IIT and some couldn’t. So, they say once you get into the industry it doesn’t matter if you are from IIT or any other college.
It matters in the starting package or starting job but later it depends on your performance. So, the decisions that I feel are life changing or life ending are not like that. So, that’s why even if you fall behind in one lap it doesn’t matter you will catch up later.
So, just don’t take it too seriously. True. I totally agree with you on this.
That is what I have also experienced in my life. I was preparing for IIT after 12th I had to do engineering I was preparing for it. But I always realized at that time that in my school life I was a different boy.
I didn’t have many friends although I was very regular to school I was in one school throughout but I didn’t have many close friends except one or two I was not having too much close friends. I was not enjoying that much those other kids were enjoying. I wasn’t enjoying as much as they were.
I prepared for IIT I didn’t get into IIT I got into a normal college my father said okay do it we will see what happens next. But one thing when I reached that college one thing was clear in my mind whatever happens in college will happen but like what I have lived before this without friends I need to make n number of friends. I went with that goal on the first day and I am proud to say I am having n number of friends in college I had so much fun in college that I didn’t expect that I could do it.
And that reflection that came back to me that came back to my school friends also when I met my school friends again I didn’t talk to them in school never we became much more closer much much more closer I was in a reunion last year and I realized I was enjoying with them to that level what I have enjoyed with my college friends which I didn’t enjoy in school time few of them I told them also that I missed them in school time that I have not enjoyed with you and now I want to express that that I am really enjoying with you so these things just came into my mind although Gita is such a topic that if we will talk we can talk for say n number of podcasts just a quick reflection on that it happens that there are phases in our life when we do something but it doesn’t happen we seek friends but friendship doesn’t happen so it doesn’t mean I am a loner it is not going to happen so when there is a break up it is a hard break so what people do when there is a break up they try to compensate it but that is not based on thoughtfulness that is based on neediness and that healthy relationship is not there so what happens is there are phases in our life when there is a negative karma so that’s why there are phases but there will be phases when whatever we do it will turn to gold there are phases in our life that this idea works so there will be phases in our life that’s why don’t lose heart so this is the flip side of living in the present live in the present but don’t live for the present you have to tap the opportunity in the present but my identity in the present my situation in the present is not permanent so live for something bigger than the present true that’s what your phase changed and then you had so many friends and now you have not just friends but intellectual like minded friends I have too many friends and it is such an honor for me like people know you people are like they listen to you and I am such an honor I am sitting next to you I am talking to you from last one and a half hour it’s my pleasure it’s such an honor for me so this is what I have earned in my life so I was saying that Geeta is something we can talk for long and long for n number of podcasts one last question which I want to emphasize many times when you are junior in office obviously there is a hierarchy in any hierarchy sometimes you feel that the data or whatever is being asked to you from your bosses you feel disconnected you don’t get it Geeta is not needed you are forced to do it you are time-wasting why do you need this data why do you have to collect this data everyone is getting worried how can Geeta help to decide such things or to handle such situations Geeta has told about happiness in three parts first one is which looks like a wish but later it becomes a nectar and second one is which looks like a nectar but later it becomes a wish it means someone drinks alcohol he drinks a lot, he feels good but later he gets hangover first it is a nectar but later it becomes a poison someone exercises regularly he is not used to reading books but he does it first it looks like a poison to sit somewhere whether it is a physical or intellectual exercise first it looks like a poison but later it becomes a new you a new world experience so it becomes a nectar when we are doing a job sometimes we have to tolerate the previous nectar the previous poison sometimes we do something because they are important sometimes we do something because the person whom we are doing this is important so we have to find out how to get out of this poison so either we do what we desire or desire what we do so in this with one word Geeta has a fascinating word Kaam Kaami Kaam Kaami means desirer of desire what does it mean? Geeta says desire and emotion they are different but similar desire means I want something from outside it is related to my sense of action I want to eat this emotion means it is related to my sense of knowledge what I see it is affecting my emotions but both have an involuntary component an involuntary component involuntary component means if I am going to a sweet shop but what is involuntary? I will go there and eat that so sometimes the involuntary the desires that come the emotions that come whether to accept them or not it is in our hands it is not important why to do this we think it is not important but in this job I have taken this role so now I will do this maybe later I will become a boss then I will not make my employees do such unrewarding work unimportant or unmeaning meaningful work maybe I will go from this poison so I can go to a better place maybe in future I can stop others from having to go through this so the poison phase in everyone’s life so the emotion coming from the intellect is emotion but how to counter the emotion just because the emotion has come doesn’t mean I have to accept the emotion so to reach the nectar after the poison we need the intellect so if we use the intellect we can go beyond that phase true, great insights so guys, hope you liked the podcast tell us in the comment section how did you like it like and share in the description box there is a link to sir’s book Gita for the CEOs what we talked about Gita about the corporate world there is a small portion of it when you read the book then you can understand how Gita can emphasize you how Gita can create a reflection in your life in your corporate world in your jobs and how you can do better so tell us how did you like the book and thanks for watching thanks sir for coming to the show you are the only literary podcaster best wishes continue doing what you are doing thanks for watching sir