Be a spiritual fruit not a religious nut – How to avoid fanaticism – Sydney – Bhagavad Gita 2.46

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

Hare Krishna Thank you very much for coming today. So this book, how many of you have a copy that either you or your neighbour has it? Do we have a few more copies? Yes, there's four more. Then there's more in the cupboard, the box is closed.

We can bring it out, if you like. Yeah, you can open it. So this book, you can look at it, you can read through it.

And if any of you want, the book will be available for buying after the session. But this is the Bhagavad Gita. I've been studying it for many years now.

15 years I've been writing. I've been writing an article on the Gita every day. So I've got 5000 articles on www.thegitadevi.com But from the start of this year, I felt that I was being very analytical in studying the Gita.

I wanted to have a more devotional approach. Many of the Gita's verses are not just sources of wisdom for me. They are like close personal friends.

And if you have a close friend, you want to know more and more about that friend. And one way we get to know more and more about a friend is by spending more time with them and spending more time in different contexts. So if you know them at work, you would like to know how are they at home? How are they on outing? If you know them in the temple, ok, how are they in their profession? How are they in a non-devotional setting? So like that, I wanted to see, I had read the commentaries of most of the Acharyas of the Gita.

But I wanted to see at other places how the Gita's verses have been quoted. And then I found, especially Mukund Mala Sutra, but a few other places also, several verses which seem to be directly inspired by the Bhagavad Gita's verses. So for example, there is a prayer in Mukund Mala Sutra.

That's a classic prayer composition by King Kulashekar who is an Alwar, a great saint in the South Indian tradition, spiritual tradition. So he says that, This unending, unsurpassable ocean of bitter existence, O Lord, it behooves you to lift me out of this ocean. So now why does it behoove the Lord? Behoove means this is what you should do.

It's right that you do it. So why? It's because you have promised it over for us. So there just seems to be a prayer that is inspired directly by a promise from Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita.

I will lift you swiftly from the ocean of utter existence. So that gave me this inspiration that we could turn, we could approach the Gita's verses as inspirations for prayer. So that is what we have done.

I have tried to do in this particular book. So on each page there is one verse from the Gita with one title, one beautiful deity picture of Krishna from various temples across the world. And then I have translated the verse into English poetry so that we get more of a poetic emotional connect with the Gita.

And then there is a prayer reflection which is over here. So I would request all of you to read one by one, or different individuals among you to read one by one paragraph as we move forward. But let's begin with this title.

You can repeat after me. Bless me, O Lord, to be a spiritual fruit, not a religious nut. This is a prayer that brings a smile on your face.

So let's recite the verse. For one who knows the truth so deep, from him Vedic rites can no secret keep. As a well holds water in a land run dry, its value fades when rivers flow far and high.

So let's recite the verse once again. We will recite it once responsibly and then we will recite it three times collectively after that. Yavan, Artha, Udhapani.

Udhapani is body of water, a well. So, Artha, as long as it has value, Yavan. Sarvatah Samkhuto Udhapani.

When there is water everywhere, then it does not have value. As long as it is not there, it has value. Tavan Sarveshu Vedeshu.

That time the specific words, this particular injunction here, this particular statement here, all that has great value. Tavan Sarveshu Vedeshu, Brahman has said. Once one understands, one becomes a Brahman.

Now Brahman here doesn't just mean a person born in a Brahmin family, but one who knows Brahman. One who becomes really wise in the import of the Vedas. For that purpose, person with specific statement here, specific statement here, they don't become that important because the overall purpose has become self-evident in the heart.

Yavan Artha Udhapani. Sarvatah Samkhuto Udhake. Tavan Sarveshu Vedeshu.

Brahman Syavijan Taha. Together. Yavan Artha Udhapani.

Sarvatah Samkhuto Udhake. Tavan Sarveshu Vedeshu. Brahman Syavijan Taha.

When I fall into that category, I become caught in pettiness. Thinking that my rituals make me superior to those who don't follow them, or those who don't observe them in the exact same way that I do. I don't want to be one of the world's many religious nuts, whose self-righteousness only increases the world's hardships.

Yes. So here, we will discuss about this problem of, broadly about fanaticism. So we use the word religious nuts and spiritual nuts.

What is the sense in which you are using it? Religious nuts, the word nut, is used in the sense that somebody who is a little crazy. Yeah. So we use it in the sense that a person is a little crazy.

So, sometimes you say, somebody has a nut loose over here. That person becomes a nut. So that means, religious nuts are people who are a bit crazy.

They can be both ways. One extreme is they are sentimental. Where they just get carried away very wildly by emotions.

And that might be harmful to them. If they get misled, they are gullible. But sometimes they even become fanatical.

And then they can become harmful to others also. And overall, in between is, religious people can be very judgmental. So sentimental, judgmental and fanatical.

It's like a spectrum. Sentimental is one's own relationship with others. Judgmental is one's own relationship with God or one's own relationship with oneself.

Then judgmental is with others. And fanatical is even more, they are imposing on others. We will discuss the differences in this.

But the idea is that, there are certain rituals. In other words, rituals can be used in a negative sense or in a positive sense. Rituals are often certain external actions that are there.

Those external actions are important, no doubt. But sometimes they can be overvalued. So, I will talk about this problem of fanaticism, extremism, radicalism.

These are slightly different combinations. But broadly, they fall in the same direction. And I will talk about this broadly using an acronym ACT.

This is like a framework I use to evaluate any challenge, any problem that is there. So, first is that we want to look at what is the cause of the problem. But before we look at the cause, we want to understand the magnitude, the extent, the amplitude, the severity.

So, the amplitude is like the volume. We want to make an assessment of why this is at all a problem. Then we look at a cause and then we look at transformation.

How we can protect ourselves and how can we protect our loved ones. These are three broad parts we will discuss in today's session. So, I was in, few years ago, I was in Texas.

For most of us who are, most of, almost everyone here seems to be an Indian. For Indians, now, if you are in, if you know about America, America is the land of Hollywood, America is the land of materialism. That's what we think.

And there is some truth to that. But actually, in the western world, America is the most religious country. Among the western countries, America has a whole bible bed.

But there is a lot of aggressive, angelical Christianity is there. So, the coastal part of America, New York and then East and West Coast, they are quite materialistic and even hedonistic to some extent. But there is quite a bit of religious aggressiveness in that part of the world.

So, I was in Texas. I was going for a program. And there, on the car in front of me, there was a bumper sticker.

It said, Oh God, please save me from your preachers. Now, in Christianity, the idea is that Jesus saves. And Jesus saves us through his preachers.

But the preachers are very holier than thou, condescending, judgmental, hell and brimstone kind of people. I don't want anything to do with them. So, the idea is, save me from preachers.

So, at a basic level, what happens is that there is apathy or even there is aversion. When there is, we are trying to assess what is the problem with fanaticism. If somebody is very pushy, very forceful, very imposing, then people can become averse to it.

There is nothing to do. Now, even if somebody doesn't become averse, they become apathetic. The largest growing demographic in America with respect to religious landscape is something called nuns.

Now, these nuns are not female monks. They are not the nuns. These are nuns.

Nuns means, these people are those who say that, if you ask them, what is your religion? Nun. They basically, they are also called apathists. I don't care for your religion.

And they do have some valid points. One of their main arguments is, you religious people, you fight about the nature of the other world and you make this world more miserable because of your fights. And that is unfortunately a truth.

It's not the complete truth. But it is a significant part of the truth. So, at a very basic level, when there is fanaticism, that puts people off.

Because apathy and aversion, these are more of a psychological effect on people in general. And now this is only the… So, I'll talk about fanaticism, who all it affects and how it affects. The fanaticism, it can affect broadly with respect to any group of people.

There are insiders, there are outsiders. And there are, you can say, neutral, fence-sitters, whatever what you want to say. There are, let's put it, people who are not completely outside, people who are not completely inside.

Yeah, I'm not an atheist. I'm not just a materialist. But, it's like there are many people, even if it's for Krishna Consciousness, it's like if you use the dating world, I'm interested in you, but I'm not committed to you.

It's like that. So, people say, I'm getting in touch with my friends. So, I met up with my school friends, college friends.

One of them told me that, I met him in Phoenix. So, he said that, I regularly go to this conference in March. And we don't have a very large congregation over there.

So, I asked the local devotees, do you know him? Have you seen him? He said, we have never seen him. I asked him, how regularly do you go? He said, every Janmashtami. Now, that is nice.

It's going at least once a year. But, it's like, okay, I appreciate you from a distance. So, those are the fence-sitters.

Now, what happens is, the fence-sitters, quite often, extremism, it drives them away. It makes them, I want to go away. I don't want to do anything with these people.

Now, outsiders. So, the fence-sitters, they get alienated. Those who are outsiders, they don't just get alienated.

They become antagonistic. They become aggressive. They start attacking.

After 9-11, this happened that there was a state for almost 10 years, in the West, it was called the age of the new atheists. There were a number of books written by people who said that religion is the cause of all evil. And one person said, in the history of humanity, there is no idea that has been invented by the human mind that is as toxic as the idea of God.

So, a lot of extreme statements that came up. But it was more of a reactionary. The people feel that, you know, these religious people are causing a lot of problems in the world.

And this one atheist who said that, throughout human history, good people will do good things. And bad people will do bad things. But, when it comes to making good people do bad things, religion alone has that power.

Now, okay, this is not the complete truth. I won't say it's only religion. But it's any kind of ideological indoctrination.

When somebody starts becoming completely narrow-minded, this is the only reality. It happened with communism also. Any ideology, somebody adopts.

So, in communism, what happened was, the state became the replacement of God. And the state would actually pay and reward family members to turn against the family members. So, if in a family, one person spoke against the state, then immediately another family member would report to the police and the police would come and arrest that family member.

And the fact that you proved that you are more faithful to the state than to the family, you will be rewarded for that. So, it was quite indoctrinated. And most people do not know, but, World War I and World War II were horror shows in the history of humanity in the last century.

But more than the number of people who were killed in World War I and World War II, were the number of people who were killed in Soviet Russia and Communist China, by the government itself, or inside without any wars. So, it was horrendous. The point is that when a person becomes indoctrinated by something, this is right.

And anything that is opposed to this is wrong. When a person believes that, they become blinded by that. So, these outsiders can become very antagonistic.

In fact, atheism, the major appeal of atheism comes not so much from the fact that atheism is so intellectually attractive. It is more from that religion seems so alarming or unattractive. Now, for the insiders, what happens? The insiders can also become very lonely.

Lonely or isolated. Why? Because when there is extremism, then there is a fear that if I speak one word different from whoever is in charge over here, if I express one opinion wrong, I will be judged. I will be targeted.

I will be rejected. And that rejection may not be in terms of, not everybody is fanatical in the sense that they will destroy people. But still you can feel completely isolated, rejected, devalued.

And then there is a lot of loneliness. This can come, generally, this can come especially in religions where there is a lot of high expectation in terms of moral standards or ritual standards. So, generally people come to a religious or spiritual group because they want a sense of community.

Modern society is quite lonely. Britain was the first country that appointed an official loneliness minister. And eventually that first loneliness minister resigned because he felt too lonely.

So, in the past we had joint families. Then we had nuclear families. Now the nucleus is also split.

And there are solitary protons and neutrons, electrons orbiting all around in the concrete jungles. So, there is a lot of loneliness. And then often people come to spiritual groups because they want a sense of community.

And quite often they don't get that. But the problem sometimes comes that if the religious group has very high ritual or moral standards and if sometimes people feel to meet those standards, then they can't speak about their struggles to anyone. And then inside religious groups also people can start feeling very lonely.

Because they have distanced themselves from the rest of the world. So, they can't really connect with the rest of the world. But in their own community they feel like a judge.

So, then they also feel lonely. So, extremism can affect everyone. Now here I have not even talked about the most common problem that breaks extremism out in news is violence.

It resists people from fanatical and destructive. Now that can affect everyone. That can affect outsiders.

That can affect fence-sitters. That can also affect insiders. So, what do I mean it can affect insiders? Because when somebody is fanatical, so we are looking at the problem, assessing the problem.

Fanaticism comes in two distinct brands. One is exclusivism. Exclusivism is more that the idea that I have or my religion has exclusive rights to God.

There is no way to God except through my path. So, if you have some cricket match going on, it may be advertised exclusively on ESPN. It's here, nowhere else.

So, exclusivism is the idea that only our path has exclusive access to God. No other path. Now, a further version of exclusivism is extremism.

So, exclusivism is more in the domain of thoughts or ideas. That we alone have access to God. If you are not following our path, you are going to go to hell.

Now, extremism goes in the domain of actions. Extremists are much kinder than exclusivists. They say that you are anyway going to go to hell.

Why delay it? We will help you get there faster. So, they bring it into the domain of action. And they say, now significantly, it's very easy for us to label a particular religion as extremist or whatever.

But it's not that simple. Extremism is a universal human weakness. And even if say, we consider radical Islam, it is, within Islam itself, there are Shias and Sufis.

And there are fights among them. And there are Sufi Muslims and there are other Muslims. They are targeted by one group, other group.

So, what happens? Exclusivism, when it leads to extremism, it keeps becoming a smaller and smaller circle of people who exactly agree with what I believe. And if you don't agree, then you are out. So, it is not just that one religion is a danger to other religions.

It is this particular mentality that is the problem. Krishna talks about this later in 18.22. He talks about knowledge in the mode of ignorance. He says, yattu krutsnavar ekas meru.

Those who take one thing and make it into everything. One thing and make it into everything. So, that is knowledge in the mode of ignorance.

We know something, but that knowledge makes us ignore everything else. This is what I know and this is all that matters. Nothing else matters.

So, let's look at the next part. So, it is a serious problem for everyone. What was the acronym we were discussing? A, C, D. A was the assessment of the problem.

Now, C is the cause of the problem. So, let's read the second paragraph. Who would like to read it? We need to further assess the problem here.

We can have two extremes. If we consider rituals. Now, I am using rituals as a shorthand for referring to any external aspect.

So, how we dress, what masks we put on our body, how specifically we wear a shirt, how we eat food, whatever it might be. There are many rituals each religion might have. So, one extreme is to overvalue the rituals.

This is what leads to fanaticism. Now, the other extreme is to devalue the rituals. You know, they are not important at all.

They are all just externals. Now, when we say they are all just externals, okay, but then, if we want to become spiritual, if we want to grow spiritually, we need to practice something. Without practicing anything, you cannot grow spiritually.

Some people say, oh, spirituality is just a state of mind. Well, yes and no. It is a state of mind, but it is also a state of being.

That it is a state in which we live. It is, and to come to that state of being, we need to modify the way we live. So, there are certain lifestyles which are more conducive to spiritual growth.

There are certain lifestyles which are less conducive to spiritual growth. So, the externals, they do matter. Like all of you sitting right now.

Now, imagine if, if I am sitting, you know, I stretch backwards and I put my feet on this particular chair. I sit like that. I am feeling very humble right now.

Now, is it possible? Well, maybe, but it is going to be very difficult. The externals do affect the internals. To say that, oh, spirituality is just an internal state, externals are all show-off.

They can be show-off, but they are not always a show-off. So, when we devalue, then it is almost like our spirituality becomes completely empty. There is no spiritual substance left.

This is often the problem of a group called SBNR. You have heard of this group? Spiritual but not religious. Yes, spiritual but not religious.

You may not have heard this term, but you probably have heard this mentality. I am spiritual but not religious. Now, people may be well-intentioned.

What they want to say is, from their perspective, being spiritual is like open-minded. We want to have some higher experiences. We appreciate different cultures.

I am spiritual. And they say, I am not religious. I am not narrow-minded.

I am not bigoted. I am not imposing my view on others. So, their intention might be good when they say that.

But quite often, the problem comes and it becomes very empty. If we don't follow anything, we won't rise. So, we will look back at this.

So, in between these two is that we need to value appropriately. We will see what appropriately valuing means. So, we have avoided both these extremes.

Now, once we understand this problem, let's look at the cause. While we are looking at the cause, what are the causes of fanaticism? Broadly, they arise from three areas. You have heard of this character called imp.

It is not a short form for imp already. Imp means somebody is impish. Somebody is naughty.

How many of you have heard about imp? No one. Imps are quite common in British or Western culture. Impish character is a person who is naughty, who is presumptuous, who is a little cheeky, who is a little arrogant.

So, the first cause of fanaticism is insecurity. Bakhtisaraj Thakur would say that aggressive religion, this is a paraphrase of a person from Bengali, aggressive religion comes from an insecure faith. He said that basically what happens, if I am not sure of what I am doing, then I need constant validation that what I am doing is right.

And if anybody is doing anything different, then the very existence of such a person threatens my faith. So, if somebody has any belief different from what I have, then I have to either correct them or stop them or eliminate them. Otherwise, I am insecure.

So, this is often when there is internal insecurity, when people seek validation externally. We all need some level of validation externally. But one of the fundamental things to understand the spiritual domain is, Krishna talks about this in 10.15. I will come to this when I talk about the solution once again.

But actually God is always greater than our conception of God. Krishna says that, Arjuna says to Krishna that svayam eva atmanatmanam viddhatam purushottama He says, you alone know yourself, O Lord. nahite bhagavan vettir vidur devan dhanuha Who you are really, no one knows.

Not even the devatas know. So, Arjuna is actually reiterating here in 10.40, this is 10.50 what else. The previous verse also talks about the same thing.

In 10.2, what Krishna has said, namel viduh surganah prabhuvam namah vishayam What Krishna has said, Arjuna is reiterating here. So, when there is insecurity, the insecurity, the problem is that, we think if I conceive of God in this way, I worship God in this way, then anybody who is doing anything different, that is a great threat for me. So, now broadly speaking, this is less of a problem within Sanatana Dharma than it is in the Dharmic religions, than it is in the Abrahamic religions.

The Abrahamic religions are often exclusivist. Abrahamic religions are basically Judaism, Christianity, Islam. They broadly share the idea that we are chosen people of God.

We have the way to God. So, that becomes a problem. So, insecurity means the idea that, if I am wrong, if I am right, then there can be no other way.

So, that is where a lot of insecurity comes in. But the fact is that, such insecurity, it comes from a misconception. If you consider, when we are going up a mountain.

Now, I may go up the mountain from this way. The top of the mountain is spiritual consciousness. The bottom of the mountain is material consciousness.

So, in one sense, right now, I am talking about the problem. I am not talking about the solution. Although, explicitly, I talk about the solution at the end.

So, now, I may take one path up the mountain. Somebody else may take some other path up the mountain. A third person may take some other path up the mountain.

So, there can be different paths up the mountain. So, just because somebody else is taking a path that is different, does not invalidate my path. And, when we are looking at the top of the mountain, I may see one aspect of the mountain.

Somebody else may see some other aspect of the mountain. And, from the bottom, the two peaks, the two aspects, the peaks that we are seeing, they may be very different. Sometimes, so different, that to understand the similarity also will be different.

Are we looking at the same thing? Maybe we are, but we are looking at very different aspects of the same thing. So, this insecurity comes from a misunderstanding, from basically assuming that what we know, that our conception of God is God. Yes, we have a particular conception.

It is important to hold on to our conception so that we can be attracted. But God is bigger than our conception. Now, more problematic than insecurity is misunderstanding.

So, I am talking about the acronym here, IOP. So, sometimes people are aggressive because they are insecure. Sometimes they are aggressive because they misunderstand.

Now, what is the misunderstanding over here? In every tradition, in every tradition, this tradition or any tradition, but this principle applies to every tradition, but we are focusing on this tradition, there are certain external things and there are certain internal. We can say there is a circumstantial, which is the external, and there is the essential. Prabhupada referred to this as the principles and the details.

This is true in every tradition. So, now there are the circumstantial aspects, which may change according to circumstances. And there is the essential aspect, which will never change.

So, fanaticism often comes when we make, if you use the word details and principles, as Prabhupada used to. When we make all details into principles. When we take one thing and make it into everything.

What I talked about earlier. Misunderstanding is what? We make every small thing into a big thing. यत्तु कुछ नवर एकस निन्य.

So, 18.22, Krishna says, that if this is the vast tradition, this whole thing is the tradition, but I catch on to one thing in the tradition, and I equate this is one thing, of the one part of the tradition, but if I equate it as the whole thing, that means if you are not doing this thing, you are not following the tradition at all. You are wrong, you are off, you are deviant. This can happen to anyone.

So, once a person was in Los Angeles, Los Angeles has a big bridge, from which people often would jump and commit suicide. So, this person was standing on that bridge himself, about to jump off. And then suddenly, he says, don't jump off the bridge, somebody said.

And he looked around. This person on the bridge says, why should I not jump off? He says, why do you want to jump off the bridge? Because no one loves me. And this person was walking, walking closer.

But Jesus loves you. That is a common thing in the tradition. Jesus loves you.

This person was on the bridge himself, he said. So, are you a Christian? He says, yes, of course, I am a Christian. Are you? He says, yes.

This person was walking closer and closer. He said, which Christian are you? Catholic or Protestant? This person said, I am a Protestant. Oh, wonderful, I am also a Protestant.

This person came closer. Which Protestant are you? He said, I am a Baptist. Oh, wonderful, I am also a Baptist.

And then he came closer. He said, which Baptist are you? He said, I am a Southern Baptist. Oh, wonderful, I am also a Southern Baptist.

He came closer. Which Southern Baptist are you? He said, I am a Reformed Southern Baptist. Jump down and die you heretic.

So, the idea is that sometimes there can be such narrow differences, which can be exaggerated. And there can be huge conflicts that arise from that. Now, for somebody who is looking at it from an external perspective, you may not even know the word Baptist or Southern Baptist.

You are okay, you are a Christian. But for them, those differences can become huge. And this is not just to make fun of other religions.

Now, in Hinduism also there is a famous South Indian temple, where there were two groups of people who would be worshipping. And they have the elephant on which the deity would go out for procession. And these two groups, they would wear tilak slightly differently.

So, they had a fight. How should the tilak be put on the elephant? And they just could not resolve the fight. And the fight went to the local court.

Then they were not satisfied with the decision. They went to the high court. They went to the Supreme Court.

And by the time the Supreme Court gave a decision, the poor elephant died also. So, now when this happens, what is happening is, that tilak is important, no doubt. But is it something which is being made so important? So, one thing is made into everything.

I was just talking with one, a Prabhupada disciple. He is himself a sanyasi. He is a prominent leader.

Many of you know him. He told me, don't quote my name. So, I am not going to quote it.

But he said, he had gone to one of his godbrothers. He is also a guru. But he is a drashta, not a sanyasi.

And he was staying at his place, the guest room. And there this godbrother showed him around the room. And showed him the rest room.

He said, here is the shower. But he said, Prabhupada never used the shower. So, I have kept a bucket for you.

Follow Prabhupada and use the bucket. Now, did Prabhupada start the international society for no shower use? So, now, what happened is, okay, Prabhupada did that. But is that a central thing? What one uses for bathing? Now, if you want to use environmental reasons or whatever, that's a different thing for it.

But he said, Prabhupada did this and that's why you have to do this. That is, that's Prabhupada's personal preference. We respect that.

But we can't make that as a principle. That's a detail. If the detail becomes a principle, then we become fanatical.

This can happen in so many different areas. Where something which is, when people do this, it's not that these people are unreasonable. See, this kind of fanaticism is not violent fanaticism in the sense of physically violent.

But it can be emotionally violent. Because when we come as a community, then what happens is, our hearts are quite tender. Because the community of devotees is where we want to bond, where we want to connect with each other.

And if we get devalued, if we get derided, if we get criticized, in the community, it can be very disorienting. It can be very discouraging. So, one has to be very careful about what we impose on others.

There are certain things which we may feel inspired by, and that's wonderful if we are inspired by them. But to impose them on others, that is where things can start going wrong. So, we take one thing, and we make it into everything.

I have a website, two websites, so I also launched an online outreach for them. There was one devotee from one city in India who got connected. And I told him, you can go to the local devotee community there.

And then I was holding a retreat in the Goa Baneko village. And he had come there, so he also came. And when he came, I asked him, what was your experience? So, he said that, have you gone to the local community? He said, no, I'm never going to go there again.

I said, what happened? He said, there are two communities. And both of them, the temple is a bit far away, there are two givers of the community. Then they have a local center.

And they meet every weekend for Mangal Aarti. Now, one group has Mangal Aarti at 4.30, the other group has Mangal Aarti at 5 o'clock. And he said, the second group, the first group said that, Prabhupada said, Mangal Aarti is 4.30. If you are not having Mangal Aarti at 4.30, you are deviating from Prabhupada.

Because you are deviating from Prabhupada, it is not Mangal Aarti, it is a Mangal Aarti. Because Krishna will not accept your Aarti. You have to know what Krishna will accept, you have to know Krishna will not accept.

Are you appointed by Krishna? Do you know Krishna's mind? So, what has happened is, this devotee may feel that, yes, I am serious in my Bhakti, because I wake up for Mangal Aarti. That's good. But, just because something makes us feel strongly connected with Krishna, does not necessarily mean, that that is the only way everyone has to connect with Krishna.

So, the essential mistake, what is the misunderstanding over here is, to, the misunderstanding is, what works for me. So, somebody may pass from Ekadashi, they may pass Nirjaya. I was more based in Vracharya Yashan.

Of course, I am still in Vracharya Yashan, but I am mostly travelling now. So, when we were earlier, we were all fanatical also. So, we would have, in the Vracharya Yashan, the Nirjaya club, and the Nirlajya club.

So, Nirjaya is those who pass without water. Nirlajya is the shameless club. Those who eat food.

Now, just because somebody is eating food, does not mean that they are shameless. Each person has their own body nature. And then, some people are easier to pass, some people are easier to pass.

So, what works for me, we start thinking that it is the only thing that can work for anyone. So, we extrapolate from our experience and apply it to everyone. So, fanaticism arises from this fundamental idea that if this is giving me some spiritual strength, this is helping me to feel close to Krishna, that is good.

But this is the only thing that will make others feel close to me. And this can go from very small things to very big things. So, I was, when I read books now, of course, it is supposed to be gentle books, because I am travelling so much.

So, I read physical books. I always had a habit of underlining and writing on the side to access. So, I was once reading in the library and there was one senior devotee who had been visiting Pune.

And he said, Prabhupada said, the books are like deities. You should not be marking on them. So, you see, what would happen for me sometimes is that I am a very rational person.

And that can get me into trouble because you see, it's like, especially if it happens in religious organizations, somebody argues based on a rational point and then if you give a rational counter-argument, say, who do you think you are to argue with me? You know, it's like, okay, you choose how you are arguing. Is it based on rationality or based on authority? Isn't it? So, that you change the grounds. So, I told him, Prabhupada, so, yes, the books are like deities and my underlining is like decorating the books.

So, he said, how dare you talk back to me? So, I said, Prabhupada, you made a rational point and you are a rational person. I just couldn't accept that. So, the thing that happens is, sometimes people will say, yeah, you should not underline the books.

Okay, if that's your sentiment, that's perfectly fine. But does that have a sentiment for everyone? No, of course, what we should not do is, when we are underlining, we should not scratch out any words. But, underlining is fine.

So, there are many small things which can be made into very big things. And this can happen with respect to rituals, it can happen with respect to the way that it is worshipped. One day, one devotee came to me and said that, today, my hair chopper was terrible.

It's in temple. I said, what happened? He said, before Jyotijapa, there was Tulsi Aarti. And this devotee did Tulsi Aarti.

And when he was doing the Diya, instead of going seven times, he moved it nine times. I said, what were you doing, counting? How many times did you move the Diya? So, now, sometimes, now, for eight, if he does VT worship, yeah, exactly move it seven times. That will make him feel serious and will love these things.

And it's wonderful if you feel like that. But the thing is that, yes, we should, we have particular ways in which VT worship is to be done. But it's not worth getting agitated about.

Whoever is in charge, that person can inform. And it's not like a criminal offence if you move the Diya one more time. So, when we fail to understand the difference between details and principles, then we start becoming fanatical.

And then we become fanatical. Now, Ganesh Chaturthi was there, exactly. Ganesh Pooja is there.

So, now, so, there was one devotee who was a Brahmachari for seven years. And he was from a family where, for many generations, Ganesh Pooja has been going on. So, his parents, he was, he was called to his home.

This has been introduced to Bhakti, not he became a Brahmachari. So, he was called back by his parents. He came back.

And he said that, when we are devotees, we should take only Krishna Prasad. We should not take anything offered to Devatas. So, what he did, his parents offered him Modak.

He took the Modak. He put it in his mouth and said, I need to go. And he went out.

He went to the nearby window and he spit out the Modak. And he spit out the Modak. Some other relatives were just coming out.

And they happened to be coming from the window. And they saw him spitting out the Modak. And then, Ganesh Pooja became Bhurukshetra.

And he had so much trouble. His parents said that, this particular group of people are inoculating you. They are taking advantage of your culture.

Don't go there at all. Now, in 365 days, we are taking food offered properly to Krishna. One day, if you take one morsel of food and give it to Krishna, it's not that Dharma Nash is going to happen.

Krishna is an understanding God. So, we have to consider what is the big thing and what is the small thing. So, Prabhupada says, intelligence means to keep things in their proper perspective.

So, maintaining the relationship with the family is much more important. At that time, a little adjustment of the standards is not an earth-shaking thing. So, when we make the details into principles, then it can become a serious problem.

So, the last point is, tell me what? Not there yet. I am concerned how enthusiastic you are. I should get the last part.

So, I am talking about P. First one is insecurity. Second is misunderstanding. And P is prestige.

Quite often, in religious organizations, because we can't see each other's hearts. So, what we can see is the externals. And when we see the externals, often doing the externals very properly can bring a lot of prestige for people.

And then, some people do the external right just to show to others. So, Krishna talks about this in the 16th chapter, in the 16th, 17th verses. He talks about, Some people do naam yajna.

Some people do yajna for naam. For naam. They do this yajna, the sacrifice for fame, for prestige.

Oh, just see how nicely I am doing this. And then when they are doing it very nicely, because their purpose is prestige, if anybody does not give them their prestige, Oh, you did this so well, then they become very agitated. So, prestige and power, this is where people can also become distracted.

So, prestige comes, power. So, especially when religion becomes mixed with politics. Politics is about power, largely speaking.

When religion becomes mixed with politics, now you cannot always completely separate the two. Because religion is, for a serious practitioner, it permeates all aspects of their life. But, it's important that in the faith, shraddha is a personal thing.

The state can never mandate it. The state cannot force a person to practice a particular, particular religion. But when religion becomes a search for prestige and power, then people can become very easily fanatic.

It's not just individuals who become fanatical, there is a time when entire groups become fanatical. So, that's most deadly. And, at this particular point, again, this is where a lot of self-righteousness comes in.

Because, I believe that this is what God has told me to do. That I am doing God's will. To the extent one is convinced about that, there are, none of us can know exactly what God's will is.

That, the more we start thinking, what I am doing is God's will, the more we become arrogant. The more we become proud. There was an American president, when America was attacked after that, there was a war on terror.

And he said at that time, if you are not for the war on terror, then you are for terror. Now, maybe that's an artificial polarization. You know, that the framing of it is in such a way that maybe you are against terror, but you don't think the war is the best way to fight with terror.

But that is, God has told me to attack this country. That's what he has said. So, this is presuming or claiming that God has told me to do something.

That is very dangerous. That God has told me, I am, now, it's one thing, I am doing this for God. That's one thing.

We all should have that seva bhaav. But to say that this is the, this exact thing that I am doing right now, that is God's will. I am chastising you because God has told me that you deserve chastising.

Well, maybe it's God, maybe it's Maya. Isn't it? Maybe I am getting angry because that anger gives me a power trip. You know, it gives me, my ego rush.

I get a kick for my ego, whatever. So, this is where things can be the most dangerous. Let's move to the last paragraph.

Lord, I pray. Help me, O Lord, to approach rituals intelligently as valuable and even vital means for spiritual growth. Let me always remember that the fruit of such spiritual growth is a heart that is humble and compassionate, not an ego that is self-righteous and judgmental.

Bless me, my Lord, to become such a spiritual fruit, one who releases and radiates the divine joy that comes from an authentic connection with you, the source of the ultimate joy. So, our spirituality is seen through our Kentucky mothers. So, for us, we all need particular ways in which we can connect with the Lord.

So, now we are moving to the last part, transformation. So, we all may have certain tendencies within us and we may see others who have some tendencies like these. So, how do we help them? So, first is, I already talked a little bit about insecurity.

So, because I am doing something, if others are doing something, that is different. See, spiritual growth can go in two ways. How do we deal with insecurity? Spiritual growth can be a growth of faith.

And faith means certainty. I have faith in my Guru. I have faith in scripture.

And my Guru has told me this. This is certain. I am sure about it.

So, again, I was in one of the Bible-type states. So, there I saw others growing up. God said it.

I accept it. That settles it. That's it.

Well, what exactly did God say? What do you mean when you accept it? There are so many nuances in it. So, spiritual growth, another trajectory is humility. As I grow, faith means, God exists, God cares, that's one direction.

Humility is God is far greater than who I am. God is far greater than my conception of God. And humility leads to curiosity, not certainty.

In fact, humility leads to a comfort with uncertainty. That, I can never know God completely. I can never know this truth for sure.

What is it exactly? It's not curiosity. Okay, I'm approaching God in this way. But let's do something different.

Why do we do it differently? Curiosity that can always keep us mindful. And humility and curiosity are then related. Humility is I don't know everything.

Curiosity is I want to know. I want to experience Krishna. I want to experience how you are experiencing Krishna.

I can't express, I want to understand how you are experiencing Krishna. So, this particular trajectory, if we follow, I talked about this yesterday in the class. Even the enlightened souls, they are enlightened each other.

Krishna says Buddha, and we both are enlightened. They are also enlightened. So, if we see spiritual growth in terms of humility and curiosity, then, when we see somebody else doing something, that does not mean we have to stop them from doing it, or we have to start doing it ourselves.

It is more than, okay, what are you doing? Bhaktivinoda Thakur said that, if we go to a place of worship of some other religion, what should be our mood over there? He said, we should be there in the mood of reverence. And understanding that, the God we worship has manifested in a different way over here. And we can appreciate the mercifulness of God, that he has manifested in this particular way.

And seeing the compassion, the mercifulness of God, we can become inspired to commit to worshipping God in the way we know him, in the way we know him. That means, going back to the mountain metaphor, that if somebody is climbing up the mountain this way, and I am climbing up the mountain this way, suppose we happen to meet somebody, then, if there is some interaction between us, that interaction does not have to lead to insecurity. Okay, what are you doing, how are you doing that? You can learn about that.

So that curiosity can be the counter for insecurity. Krishna, now that does not mean I have to leave this path and I have to go up and climb up again. No, but I can just learn, I can just learn about it.

So, that is the way to leave insecurity, try to continue curiosity. The second was, what was it? Misunderstanding. Misunderstanding and that is there.

How do we leave it? By developing our intelligence. So, Prabhupada defined intelligence in a very simple way. Prabhupada says, intelligence means to see things in that proper perspective.

Proper perspective means that we understand what is more important and what is less important. What are the big things and what are the small things. So, how do we learn this? This is where we are associating with devotees, not just one devotee, different devotees and we see how they function in bhakti, what they prioritize, how they function, what makes them tick, that way we learn.

I think it is Vishakha Mataji, who is the pastor and she came to Prabhupada, she came to Prabhupada to Mumbai and they were in one life member's home, they had been invited for the sadh. And when they had been invited, one devotee noticed that, I remember they had a grand welcome for Prabhupada, they did father puja, and they were so profusely respectful, in the sadh. And one devotee said, Prabhupada, there is onion in this food.

Prabhupada said, there is no onion. Prabhupada said, there is no onion in this food. This devotee actually took out a little bit of onion, showed it to Prabhupada.

Prabhupada didn't even look at him and said, there is no onion in this food. Prabhupada was looking so grave and so almost stern, and devotee got silent. And then after that Prabhupada told, that it was our mistake that we did not tell them, that we don't take onion.

So, he said that, for an Indian family, the sadhu comes to their home and sits down to take food and then goes away without taking the food. It's considered a big, big manartha has happened, some terrible has happened. So, he said, we should be extremely careful that we don't do this again.

That we communicate our standards clearly. Our failure to communicate should not lead to they feeling that, they feeling hurt. Now, does that mean we should start taking food and garlic all the time not to hurt others? That's not the point of it.

The point is that each context, we need to understand what is the big thing here, what is the small thing. So, this devotee said, when I heard that from Prabhupada, I understood that Krishna consciousness is actually an avenger. It is not just a rigid adherence to a rule book, do this, don't do this, do this, don't do this.

It is more of considering Vesakala Patra and understanding what is more important and what is less important. To the extent we understand that, to that extent, we will be able to function effectively. So, for us, at different contexts, different things may be less important or more important.

Why is that? Because, there is, I talk about circumstantial and essential. So, this is one of my friends who recently started coming from the West. And he was there for three days in America.

He was very agitated. He said, what happened? He said, here in the classes, there is no gender separation. Men and women sit together.

He said, this absolutely does not happen in India. Why? This is not all serious. I said, I told him one story about how there is a Western outreach program over there.

And this man, his girlfriend had brought him to the temple. And as soon as he came to the temple, he just had to sit separately. And he said, I had no idea what was happening.

Because there are many things which we just assume. It is straightforward. But for a Western mind, it might just be very weird.

I was in his class over there. And I had come to the temple and the RP was getting over. An Australian lady approached me and asked me can I ask you a question? I said, sure.

I said, when you blow that, when that conch is blown, why does everyone kiss the floor? From my perspective what it is? They are kissing So, many of my rituals seem very strange to me. So, then that devotee, he went to a West Navdi Centre, where boys, girls, men, women, they sit together and say, if we come from a culture where gender separation is very strict, then suddenly gender mixing will be destructive. But if we come from a culture where gender separation is not so much there, and suddenly gender separation is imposed, that can be destructive.

So, what is a distraction for whom, that has to be seen according to the Shri Ramadhan. Unless we understand that, what will happen is, we will just impose our rituals on others. This is important.

You know, of course, some level of boundary, gender interaction always has to be there. But the specifics may be. So, when I started over to America, this is probably 2016 or something.

So, I had done a program on ministering in America. And after that, one girl asked, American girl asked a question, why do religious fight among each other? So, I gave a detailed answer. I talked about the three modes and other things.

And she was quite satisfied with the answer. So, after the answer, I was talking, after the class, I was talking to various people and she also came and she said, this question had been burdening me for a very long time. You have relieved me.

Thank you so much. Can I give you a hug? So, now, so, I look at the devoted teacher over there and I said, help me. So, now, I have devoted a warm hug.

In the western world, hugging is a normal expression of affection. Now, I told this devotee, please help me. The devotee helped me but in an entirely unexpected way.

He said that, he is a monk. On his behalf, you can hug him. So, I was thinking that was not right.

And his wife was next to him. And his wife said, I am his wife. On his behalf, you can hug me.

So, now, yes, from an Indian perspective, that's quite out of reach. They must say, you don't have any culture. You don't know how to behave with a monk.

So, we have to be sensitive that, now, I cannot accept that hug but at the same time, I cannot reject it also. So, I have to do it in a sensitive way. So, what is a big thing for us, we may have to protect a big thing but not in a way that we devalue or dismiss others.

That's why intelligence means to understand what is a big thing and what is a small thing and act accordingly. The last part is, so, the misunderstanding, we develop our intelligence. And the last part was prestige.

Prestige or power. So, this is probably the most difficult. If somebody is coming to religion itself for getting prestige and power, then it's very difficult to change.

But sometimes, like I said, you want to prove how good I am. How great I am. And somebody may say, okay, if I am good and great, then my religion also is good and great.

So, but the purpose of spiritual growth, it is not proving. It is one part of it. But the far bigger purpose is improving.

It is not so much that proving my path is better than your path. It is actually improving. It is actually becoming a better devotee, becoming a better human being.

So, one of the thing which is apathies, is nuns, is SBNR, this and that, both of them. Don't tell me what you believe. Show me how you behave.

So, our behavior itself should be such that people think, hey, I want to know this person. I want to know what makes this person ticker. So, proving is in particular context, it is a process.

You are right. Sometimes you may have to have debates, sometimes you may have to have philosophical arguments. But that's not the primary thing.

It is in between. So, if you understand what is our purpose, that it is to enrich our own spiritual, enrich our own Krishna consciousness. And if we are to be Krishna conscious, that itself, Krishna's attractiveness will manifest through us and attract others.

We won't have to impose on others. And that's how, you know, we can be single, we can be a spiritual fruit. The spiritual fruit is, the aroma of the fruit spreads and attracts.

You see, Prabhupada was extremely pure. But Prabhupada, although sometimes we may think of Prabhupada as being very strong and uncompromising, talking fools and rascals and those kind of words. Yes, Prabhupada did that.

But Prabhupada was also, at an individual level, remarkably non-judgmental. That's how people who were breaking all the regulative principles, when you could say for the people in the counterculture, the hippies, it was a regulative principle to break all the regulative principles. That's the way they were living.

But Prabhupada did not dismiss them. Prabhupada did not disrespect them. Prabhupada actually attracted them.

So, when we focus on that, that my purpose is not just to prove that I am better than you or my path is better than yours. My path is that this is how this has worked for me and this is how it can work for you also. So, when we have that understanding, then we won't be so much seeking prestige.

Our purpose is that we want to offer service to others. And yes, if our service is effective, people may also give us respect after that. But that's not primarily our purpose.

So, that way, we can be fixed in what we are doing, but at the same time, not become overhearing or imposing or domineering on others. So, I'll summarize what we discussed today. Our topic was how to be a spiritual promoter and not a religious nutter.

So, that means how we can avoid this fanaticism or extremism that comes. What are the acronyms we discussed? A, C and D. A was assessment. We assessed what is the seriousness of the problem.

So, we talked about what fanaticism does is that when there are people who are fanatics, the fanatics, they affect everyone. The insiders, the fansitters and the outsiders. So, what happens to the outsiders? They become antagonistic.

They become aggressively against us. The fansitters become alienated. Their alienation can range from apathy to aversion.

I don't care for you to downright dislike me. So, the outsiders can have an antagonism where they become aggressively against us. And insiders, loneliness.

That is because there is always the fear of being judged and found short. So, now we discussed here about how there can be two extremes. When it comes to rituals or any externals that are there.

They can be overvalued, which can make us fanatical. And it can be devalued, which can make people empty. They are not doing anything of value in the spirituality.

You need to be valued aptly, appropriately. So, how do you value appropriately? You understand that we discussed the cause. So, the cause of fanaticism was it, was what? Three things.

I, I was, we discussed that term, IMP. I was insecurity. Insecurity is where if I am right, then nothing else can be right.

So, you must be wrong. We discussed the idea that people think that this is the only way up the mountain. But it does not have to be the only way up the mountain.

There can be, this is one way. But there can be other ways up the mountain also. Which we may not, which may be different from ours.

So, the way, the transformation, the way we deal with insecurity is through, we discussed how spiritual growth can go along two trajectories. One is, we think it is only in terms of faith. I have strong faith, that means certainty.

When that is one trajectory, the other can be? Spiritual growth means humility. That God is greater than my conceptions of God. And that will lead to curiosity.

So, God is greater than my concept. Conception of God. So, that is essence of humility only.

You can avoid insecurity. Then the second was? Misunderstanding. Misunderstanding means that we basically start, in every tradition there are, there are the, there is the essential and then there is the circumstantial.

The essential is like the principles. And then there are the? Details. Details.

So, the essential and circumstantial. So, what happens when there is misunderstanding? We start equating. What are the details? We start thinking that they are the principles.

And then that is what leads to a problem. So, the problem here, the mentality here is that what works for me is the only thing that will work for anyone. And the cure for misunderstanding is? Intelligence.

Intelligence is to know what are the big things. And to know what are the small things. So, this requires often considering Desha Kaala Patra.

That according to time, place, circumstance, what might be very big for me at a particular time may not be that big at another time to another person. And P is? Prestige or power. When somebody starts practicing religion just to make a show of how great they are.

So, when this happens, then it can be a problem. And then the cure for this is to focus on the purpose. Why are you practicing? It is not for proving.

It can be one part of it. But a much much bigger purpose is in proving. Whatever I am doing, it is for the purpose of improving myself.

And if I am improved, then I naturally attract others. So, in this way, we can be firm about how we are climbing up the mountain. By the same time, if somebody else is climbing up the mountain in a different way, we accept that.

We don't become insecure or aggressive about it. So, let's conclude with the starting prayer that was there, which we had offered. Bless me, O Lord, to become a spiritual proof, not a religious man.

Are there any questions or comments? So, this is really good for us to apply to ourselves. Because that fanatical tendency is too common. But what about dealing with other people? That is number one.

Or let's say, through this intellectual understanding, we might understand that the fanaticism that they have, they are also sort of being victims to all these tendencies. But what about, let's say, if they are hurting people around them who are getting affected because of their fanaticism, then how do we help them out? It depends. So, if somebody else is being fanatical, what can we do about them? We shouldn't become fanatical about freeing them from fanaticism.

That can also become, it's like there are liberals and there are conservatives. And sometimes the liberals can be very illiberal to those who are not liberal. So, it's the same extremism coming in the opposite direction.

So, I think we have to be careful about that also. Ultimately, we cannot change anyone. We can only provide them resources and reasons for changing.

It's up to them whether they will change or not. One of the things that I found very helpful, I grew up in India in one of the most conservative Brahmachari ashrams. And then I started travelling abroad.

I was 10 years in that ashram. Then I started travelling in India. Then after 5-7 years, I started travelling abroad.

So, it was when I started travelling abroad, I started seeing so many different versions of Krishna consciousness. So, initially I thought this is not Krishna consciousness at all. But then I realized that, okay, there are so many, these people are also Krishna conscious, my devotees.

So, I think it's talking with people. When we see somebody who is doing something which we feel is wrong, then we stop with them. Try to understand what they are doing.

Talking with people helps a lot. We often, when we talk about bhakti, we talk about deepening our Krishna consciousness. That is important at an individual level.

If we want to be in a community, it's just as important, if not more important, to broaden our Krishna consciousness. Deepening is, I go deeper into my relationship with Krishna. Broadening is understanding how different people are attracted to Krishna in different ways.

So, that broadening happens by this Krishna consciousness. If I consider that this is Krishna. Krishna is like another example, ocean.

So, I am approaching Krishna in this way. But somebody else will be approaching Krishna from here. And the way they are approaching Krishna, that's different from mine.

And they may not be doing 70% of the things which I do, which I consider central for Krishna consciousness. But still they are approaching Krishna. So, when there is discussion, this is what actually broadens.

So, we should talk with each other. Quite often there are extremists, they don't talk with each other, they talk about each other. Oh, this person did this and that person did that.

See how terrible they are. Everybody is terrible. Only I am pure.

Only I am focused on one thing. So, generally just talking with people and not just me talking with them, but encouraging them to talk with others. That ethos itself leads to a lot of broad-mindedness.

See, in the Indian tradition, there is a difference between the philosophical and the cultural. So, when Prabhupada was staying in New York, he was staying at a Nrsita Yoga studio. Now that person was a Padvaitin.

And he hosted Prabhupada for some time and Prabhupada moved over to his side. And then, when many years later his school was established, he came to meet Prabhupada. And Prabhupada had lunch with him.

And they were chatting for a long time. And after that, Maharaj asked him, Prabhupada, I thought he is a Mayavadi. And Prabhupada said, yes.

He said, philosophically, we argue like anything. But culturally, we are friends. So, it's a very important difference.

The philosophical differences should not lead to the culture getting lost. Prabhupada gave the example also. You see, a Mayavadi sanyasi also should offer obeisances.

We may not respect their philosophies, but we respect their renunciation. So, like that, the cultural aspect has to be maintained. So, that way, basically, just talk with each other.

And that can help decrease the fanaticism. But if they are hurting others, then if we have that authority, that power, we can try to limit their influence or impact on others. But if we don't, we can't do anything really.

We may have to escalate to some higher authorities and let's see if something happens. Ultimately, one advantage of, ultimately, it's a relationship of every soul with Krishna. Not just that particular person who is being fanatical, but even those who are affected by their fanaticism.

One advantage in today's world is that because of the internet and social media, spiritual outreach has become very democratized now. It cannot be so legislated. It's not that you have to go to this temple only and hear from this person only.

That can lead to confusion. But that can also lead to a person, okay, I just can't generate this person. Then they can go somewhere else.

So, we all, one principle in Bhakti is that we all need Sajjatiya Sangh. Sajjatiya is like-minded association. So, unless we have like-minded association, we cannot move ahead in life.

So, from the start of my Bhakti, I was very analytical. And I used to ask a lot of questions. And this one devotee I asked, I was asking a lot of questions.

And then, he just told me, sweetly, but worse came like a slap on my face. He said, Chaitanya Chaitanya, he said that, he called me a vampire initiator, I was not an initiator at that time. He said that, you should remember, we are on the Bhakti mark, not the Gyan mark.

Don't ask so many questions. I was taken aback. I said, no questions are what, I will be in Krishna Consciousness.

I am giving classes, but I have so many questions. And I have devotees in different areas of specialization whom I ask different questions and we discuss. That's what is the juice of my spiritual life.

So, asking questions and discussing. So, then I talked to another senior devotee and he said that, you know, before you ask a question, you should ask the question whether I should ask this question or this question. You have to decide whom to ask questions.

If I am an analytical person, then I need to find those devotees who are also analytical. They will enjoy the questions. But those who are not analytical, they are maybe more devotional, they are more Leela, they like Leela, they like Kirtan.

They will either find it irritating, distracting or exhausting. One devotee told me, when I listen to the class, I feel like puking. Steam comes out of the head.

So, I think we need like-minded association. Okay, any other questions? I think this one pretty much happens probably. Because when I went to India, right, like people go with the social media, like Facebook, they take up some fact and we will go into this kind of mode.

And the moment we try to explain this, they will think like you are anti-Hindu. This happened for me. Like when we try to give them the logical explanation.

They will think like, okay, you are trying to preach so much. This is especially in the current generation. People are just taking like one forwards, WhatsApp, social media.

It's going very fanatic. Sometimes whatever we are hitting in other people, we are, some of the people, approaching the same thing. You must have noticed.

Yeah, actually what happens is, there is this, what is it called? Social media bubble. There is an algorithm which, if I read something, watch something, the algorithm will show me more and more of that same thing. It leads to what they call a social media echo chamber.

Echo chamber is, whatever I read, that same thing, I will keep more and more reading of that person. And people just start becoming totally convinced. This is the only right thing.

And there is nothing else. Like when this whole COVID vaccine, COVID was there, the vaccination. It became a big issue for some devotees.

All these vaccines are some bad little conspiracy and you should not be taking vaccines. Okay, that's a Hindu decision. Of course, you have to consider the local government policy.

Now, of course, that there was some amount of problems with the vaccine imposition and all that. That's all coming up. But the point is, people can just make one perspective.

This is all. How can you not accept it? So, it just becomes very difficult. So, you know, there are two extremes.

One is some people are narrow minded. So, now, narrow minded is not the same as some narrow minded people become also close minded. So, what is the difference between narrow and close? Narrow means they can think only in a particular way.

Close means they refuse to think in any other way. That, nothing else is there. Now, the opposite of narrow minded or close minded, he says open minded.

But it's not that simple. You know, we want to be open minded, but we can't be so open minded that our brains fall out. Isn't it? So, the opposite of this can be empty minded.

It's like you just don't have any convictions, any opinions, anything that anybody says. So, just go that way, whichever way the wind is going that way. We have no inner integrity at all.

Now, in between, the first is open minded. Open minded is, well, okay, this is my understanding, but I'm open to hear what is your understanding. And if we can stay open minded, then gradually we will become broad minded.

Now, the difference between open minded and broad minded is, when I'm open minded, I'm ready to hear alternative perspectives. But when I'm broad minded, I'm capable of holding opposite ideas or different ideas simultaneously. That reality is much more complex than what I understand.

So, okay, maybe this works, but this also works. Like open minded, I'm taking allopathy, but if somebody says Ayurveda will cure you. Okay, it will cure.

But then I have two friends. One is like a very allopathic, allopathic champion and the other is Ayurveda champion. And both of them criticize each other.

And both of them are my friends. So, how do I do that? That is, when I talk with them, I talk about their ignorance. I don't talk about the alternative perspective.

But I don't buy into everything that they say. So, broad minded means we can have different ideas, even opposing ideas. And we can hold them.

Becoming broad minded is not at all easy. It requires really high level of sattva moda. But at least we can try to become open minded.

Yes, sir. Very nice class. Thank you so much.

So, recently we had, I mean, Scott had the court case about rhetoric philosophy. So, can you share some input on how the fanatics are, I mean, they say this is the only way, that's the only way, that's the point, right? Okay. That's a good example of how things did go on a nasty track.

So, I don't have time to go into the entire issue. I have done a whole video on this topic of ethics. My YouTube channel is there.

I talk about the ethics problem from a historical perspective, a psychological perspective, a religious sociological perspective and an individual perspective. So, it's all there. So, anyway, so what I want to talk about two things over here.

That there are certain differences which are important at a particular level. And they need to be addressed. So, in this case, it was not just like a theological difference.

It was also a property dispute. The temple over there, it was registered under his own official name. But the local leader felt that it's not managing properly or whatever.

He wanted to have his own place under him alone. So, it was a legal dispute. That was another aspect of it.

But on top of the legal dispute, there was a philosophical dispute going on. About the way these issues were handled. Now, this is an important issue and it needs to be addressed.

But the problem that happens is that sometimes some disputes are actually best addressed in the intellectual domain of intellectuals. But when it just becomes a public debate, then it becomes quite cheap, it becomes quite dirty. It loses its divinity.

And then there is what is called ad hominem attacks. Ad hominem attacks means you don't attack the argument, you attack the person. And then that becomes very bitter.

That unfortunately happened. So, I would say that in any demographic, if it is a 100% equal, there will always be differences. But there are 5% on one extreme, 5% on the other extreme.

But quite often, this 5%, they make 40% of the noise. And this 5% make 40% of the noise. So, what happens is, the remaining 45%, most others just want to go on with their life.

They never want to get involved in this. That's why they don't make much noise. But then the whole public discourse becomes dominated by the most extreme voices from both sides.

And then it can become bitter, it can become fanatical. So, it's best that we focus on our practice of Krishna Consciousness and let others, let those who are involved, they will resolve the issue. Any last question? Certainty is definitely important.

For example, if I am uncertain that Krishna is God, now that is going to be a problem. Now from Krishna is God to Krishna only is God. And the way I understand Krishna, that is the only way to understand Krishna.

All that can go towards fanaticism. When I say certain curiosity, the curiosity is also grounded in a certain level of certainty. Curious means, I am eager to know more.

But I also have confidence that what I know is of value. And my capacity to know is also valuable. So, each one of us, we have to see where to direct our curiosity.

Some people may have more musical curiosity. Okay, that's a bit different. The kirtans are done, which instruments can be used, what tunes can be learned.

Some of us may have more of ritual curiosity. How are the deities worshipped? How can I learn this worship? Some of us may have culinary curiosity. I want to learn more of the recipes, how can they be cooked? Some of us may have philosophical curiosity.

In philosophy, there are so many different aspects. So, we have to dovetail our curiosity. When I am talking about curiosity, that is a disposition.

It does not have to necessarily be an activity. So, it is not that we always have to be seeking to learn more. Because there are so many areas we can learn more.

We can learn more, we can concentrate our energies in learning more in the areas that we are enthusiastic about. We have interest and a service opportunity. Other areas, we don't have to.

Understand that there are complexities over here. Things are not black and white. So, when I say curiosity, if curiosity is leading to confusion, then we need to do two things.

Talk with some devotees who know the subject. And get a broader understanding of the subject, so that the confusion is resolved. And second is, understand that not everything can be understood in black and white.

There are nuances. There are shades of grey. And that is, in one sense, inherent in the Vedic philosophy.

In our philosophy, it is Achintya Veda. Achintya means inconceivable. That is basically a certain level of uncertainty.

So, it's not like black and white. So, understanding that also is very helpful. So, sometimes education, you know this one.

See, education has both aspects to it. One is, that what is complicated, education makes it simple. It is to reveal the simplicity in what seems complicated.

But education is another aspect, that what is simple, we reveal the complexity. What I think is simple, is not that simple. So, both are aspects of education.

So, for example, initially, when the parents are teaching children colour, they'll say, this is black and white. The whole world is so complicated, but look, this is black, this is white. You start with that black and white.

If you don't start with the simple, you don't reduce the complicated simple, you start telling the child, okay, you know, this is Malayalam, there are six shades of red. Okay, what is red? The child will see red before that. The child's face will become red, I'll start crying, you'll forget it.

But then what happens? At that time, we need to start with, leave the complicated simple. But then, black and white is there, but the child needs to be educated further. Everything is now black and white, there's only other colours in between.

So, that education will also be called. So, probably people become fanatical because we just stop at black and white. Now, even when we say this is complicated simple, there's black, there's white.

Now, in between, there are many shades of grey. All the colours are basically shades of grey. Now, even when we say there are shades of grey, that does not mean that there is no black and white.

Still, there are black and white also. So, it's not that everything is relative. We also have to have certainty about certain things.

So, in that sense, it's an advanced process. But gradually, associating with devotees will clarify our confusion and directing our curiosity in the area where we have some interest or where we have some service. That will be helpful.

Thank you very much. So, I have written a couple of books in Munich. This is the book we already read from today.

This is 122 prayers based on the first six chapters of the Bhagavad Gita. Each prayer is accompanied by a literature and poetic summaries.