Healthy relationships through dharma-bhakti balance | Emotionally Healthy Spirituality – 3 Gita 3.26

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

Hare Krishna. Thank you very much for coming today. So, we have been discussing on the topic of emotionally healthy spirituality.

I will continue this discussion. Today, for those of you who are not there, I will just give a quick recap, but each session will be a separate stand-alone session. So, I will be discussing based on this book which I have Prayers Inspired by Bhagavad Gita.

Our topic broadly is that how we can, when we are going through life, experience emotions in a way that the emotions don’t come in the way of our spiritual growth. Rather, our spirituality helps us experience more positive emotions and just as we need to be physically healthy and fit, we need to be also emotionally healthy and fit. So, in the first session, I had discussed why the mind matters, why the emotions matter, how they are real.

In the second session, I discussed about negative emotions and what they mean. Emotion is information. What exactly is the information? We need to understand that.

Now, today, we will talk about negative situations that come in our life. So, how do we understand those negative situations and how do we deal with those negative situations in a more healthy way? So, in one sense, the way we are moving is emotions are real. That was the first session.

Negative emotions, where they come from, that is second session. Third is negative situations, when they come in our life, how do we deal with them? And for dealing with them, for dealing with negative emotions, we are going to discuss two broad approaches. One is the approach of dharma and the other is approach of bhakti.

And how both of them can work together to help us deal with negative situations in our life. So, let’s look at it one by one. I will use a framework, same framework that I was using earlier, a chit framework.

Three distinct points I will talk about. First C was what? Concept. So, we will discuss what dharma and bhakti mean.

Then we will talk about insights. We will talk about how these help us to deal with negative emotions. And then finally, we will talk about the takeaway.

How do we apply this in our life? So, broadly, let’s go to this particular verse from the Bhagavad Gita. This is 326. So, in this book, this is my latest book, we have a few copies here with us.

In each of these, I have taken different key verses from the Gita and then there is a picture of a deity of Krishna and then there is a one-sentence prayer summary. Then there is a verse of the Gita. There is a poetic translation and a one-page prayer.

So, like that there are different verses. So, we will focus on one of my favorite verses from the Gita. This is 326.

So, if you want, you can repeat after me. My dear Lord, help me to learn how to help others to learn. So, that means that sometimes if somebody is not understanding what we are telling them, then we may just want to chastise them, condemn them, discipline them.

But instead of thinking that they are foolish, maybe take responsibility that I need to learn how to help others to learn. Let’s try to recite this verse. The wise should not disturb the mind of those to worldly work inclined.

Let them act while you gently show the path to truth that they may know. The path to truth that they may know. Krishna is here broadly talking about two levels of people.

Say, one person is at a lower level, other person is at a higher level. This person, Krishna says, is ignorant. Na buddhi-bhedam janaiyat ajnanam karmasanghiram.

He is ignorant and attached. And this person is vidvan yukthah samacharan. This person is wise and this person is well engaged, is spiritually connected.

As contrasted with attached, yukthah is connected to higher person. So, then the idea is how does this person, now we would like this person to rise to a higher level. It could be a parent guiding a child.

It could be a teacher guiding a student. It could be a spiritual master or a spiritual guide helping a seeker grow. So, how do we help the other person to grow? That is what Krishna is telling that na buddhi-bhedam janaiyat.

Don’t disturb people’s minds. So, we will discuss, we will keep coming back to this particular image. Let’s look at the prayer.

I request different devotees to read one one paragraph. Who would like to read the first paragraph? Yes, please. Okay.

So, one Prabhus can read, one Mataji’s can read. Yeah, please. My dear God, you emphasize that good intention is not a substitute for good intelligence.

Even when I want to do good for others and guide them toward a higher level of consciousness so that they ultimately connect with you, I need to carefully consider whether such instruction might be disruptive for them even to the point of being destructive. Yes. So, we often have good intentions.

So, for example, if we are at a higher level, we want the other person to come to a higher level. That is a good intention. So, if we are on the spiritual path, we may want our friends and family to also come on the spiritual path.

If they are not as committed or serious, we only want them to become a little more committed. So, we want them to come to a higher level. But sometimes this leap may be too high for them.

We want them to take this whole leap till here. But if it is too high, they take half the leap and then they end up further down. They feel, you know, this is too much, this is too fanatical, you know, I just can’t do this.

And so, what we need to do is that everybody to do anything good in life needs to be pushed. So, if we have a child, to get the children to study, we have to push them a little bit. Very few children naturally fall in love with studying.

Isn’t it? So, they may like one subject and they may like to study that subject, but not everything. So, we have to push them. But the challenge is, when we are pushing, the intention is good, this is for you, this is for your benefit.

But when we are pushing, are we pushing them closer to the positive thing or are we pushing them further away from us and from that positive thing? On the spiritual journey, are we pushing them towards Krishna or are we unmittingly pushing them away from Krishna? So, that is something which we all have to check. That. So, our intentions is good.

So, basically, we could put it this way that on one side, we can have good intention. But if there is only good intention, good intention only, but no good, on the other side is good intelligence. Intelligence in this context means judgment.

That do they have the capacity to do this? If they don’t have the capacity, what do we do? We will have to look at that. If there is only good intention without good intelligence, then what may happen is this can backfire. On the other hand, if there is good intelligence, but the other person doesn’t feel, yeah, this is good for me, but the other person doesn’t really feel encouraged, we are not really touching their heart, then they may agree with it, but they will be uninspired.

All this is good, but I don’t like to do it. So, we want a balance of good intelligence and good inspiration both. Sorry, good intelligence and good intention both.

And so, Krishna is telling us that joshyet sarvakarmani, engage others gradually. So, our purpose is to bring more positivity in others’ life, but sometimes what we do may bring more negativity into their life. So, if that is what is happening, we have to be careful.

How do we go about doing this? We will talk a little bit more about this, but let’s go to the next paragraph. Yes. I was in America a few years ago.

Now, to the Indian mind, we may think of America as Hollywood, as very materialistic. There is some truth to that. But in the western world, America is the most religious country.

As compared to say Australia, New Zealand, UK, France, even Canada, there is a significant portion of America where there are lot of influential evangelicals. So, there is what is in the mid-southern part of Australia, America, there is called a Bible Belt. So, I was travelling in the Bible Belt, I was going for a program, and in front of me there was a car and on that car there was a bumper sticker.

It said, Oh God, please save me from your preachers. Now, normally, God, at least in the Christian tradition, the idea is God saves us through his preachers. Isn’t it? So, we are all lost and his preachers come and save us.

That is the idea. But if the preachers are very pushy, they are very judgmental, they are very guilt-inducing in others, they are fanatical, then what happens? People start, I don’t want anything to do with such people. I just don’t want to be here.

So, people can become alienated from spiritualists. This happens when somebody may be good in religion but they are just too pushy. So, they can get alienated from spiritualists or they can get alienated from spirituality itself.

This whole business, I don’t want to be a part of it. The fastest growing demographic from a religious perspective in America is what they call as nuns. These are not the female version of monks.

This is not nuns. Nuns are N-O-N-E-S, nuns. Nuns means if you ask them what is your religious affiliation, they say nun.

So, their idea often is that you religious people, you have your ideas of what the nature of God is, what the nature of the other world is and you fight over the idea of the other world and you create problems in this world. So, I don’t want anything to do with this. So, that’s why forcing others is not a good idea at all.

It backfires. So, people get alienated from spiritualists or from spirituality. The same point that if you push too much, people go away.

People can go away from us, people can go away from Krishna, people can go away from any spiritual path itself. We don’t want that. Yes.

Who would like to read something? Yes. So, see, when we talk about Krishna Consciousness, that there are two visions of Krishna Consciousness. Especially when looking at Krishna Consciousness, we are looking with Krishna Consciousness at others.

So, what others are doing in relationship with Krishna. So, for example, this person goes to a temple or this person does chant some mantra, doing in relationship with Krishna. And sometimes we may say, okay, this person is not doing much or this person is doing a lot.

Recently I have started reconnecting with some of my school and college friends. I was in a fairly good college. So, the students are, my co-students are in various big positions in various countries.

So, I had gone to a city in America. And there one of, I met one of my college friends. And he said, I regularly go to the ISKCON temple there.

And it’s not a very big temple. So, then I asked the community leader over here, have you seen him? He said, no, I have not seen him any time. So, little surprised because it’s a small community.

So, then I asked him, sir, you said you regularly go to the temple? He says, yes, how often? He says, every janmashtami. So, regularity is every janmashtami. That’s not a very high level of regularity.

We may say that, okay, what this person is doing in relationship with Krishna is very meager. And that is true. But there is another vision of Krishna consciousness is what Krishna is doing in relationship with this person.

So, what this means is that Krishna is always in everyone’s hearts. Sarvasya chaaham hrudisannivishto. And Krishna is acting in everyone’s lives.

We may not remember Krishna, but Krishna always remembers us. So, Krishna is guiding everyone in their life. And everybody has some understanding of life.

Everybody has some values in their life. And we may see that, oh, there is no God in their life. Yes, but there may be sattva guna, there may be rajo guna, there are certain values.

And so, they are in their journey, they are somewhere. So, we have to see how we can facilitate their journey from where they are. So, it’s not so much that I have to make a plan for how this person will grow, rather Krishna has a plan for this person and how can I help this person to grow.

So, what this means is, we go back over here. If that person cannot take that huge leap, then we may have to create some steps for that person to get there. Sometimes those steps may be smaller.

So, it may take a long time for them. Some people, they may take very small steps. For them it will bahunam janmanamante.

It may take many lifetimes. But still they are growing on their spiritual path. So, the idea is, we need to help others.

So, good intention is, okay, I want you to help you rise. Good intelligence is, okay, where are you right now? What is your capacity? And how can I help you to rise from where you are? So, with this background that Krishna has a plan for everyone and Krishna’s plan is working in everyone’s life. So, with this, let’s look at the concept of dharma and bhakti.

So, what others are doing in relationship with Krishna, that is bhakti. That means, is this person practicing some bhakti? Is this a person to chant? Is this a person to worship? Now, what Krishna is doing in their lives, that is often associated with dharma. Now, the word dharma has many different meanings.

And I will talk about dharma little bit more in detail to understand how this concept is universal. Before we go into that, what are the meanings of dharma that you are aware of? What does dharma mean? Dharma can mean duty. We all have to do our duty.

Anything else? Thank you. Dharma can mean nature. So, Prabhupada uses the word dharma in terms of innate nature.

Like the dharma of sugar is sweetness, dharma of water is liquid, like that. Anything else? Dharma has another meaning, religion. Yes.

Dharma, any other meanings? Sorry? Yes. So, we could say dharma can mean righteousness, the path of righteousness. What is the path, what is the right thing to do? Dharma is the path of righteousness.

Anything else? Can we say dharma and worship also dharma? Yeah. So, dharma can refer to different kinds of worship. We will come to that.

This becomes more of like piety or religion. So, dharma has many different meanings. And we will try to look at these different meanings from a particular context.

See, in the Gita, the word dharma comes many places. But I will look at two key verses, 2.7 and 4.8. In 2.7, Arjuna is asking Krishna, Prachamitvam dharma samudachetaha. I want to know what is dharma.

In fact, that is the key question that unfolds the whole Bhagavad Gita. And in fact, Bhagavad Gita is a part of the Mahabharata. And the Mahabharata’s driving question also is what is dharma.

Now, in 4.8, Krishna says, dharma samsthapanarthaya sambhavami yuge yuge. I come to establish dharma. So, what does this mean over here? Let’s try to understand dharma in two different senses over here.

See, we are all a part of a collective. So, whenever we are a part of a collective, we as individuals do something for that collective. And then the collective does something for us.

So, in 2.7, Krishna is talking about dharma as what the individual does for the collective. Arjuna says, what is the right thing for me to do? Arjuna Krishna says, I come to establish dharma in society. That means the society should be arranged in such a way that the collective does the right things for the individual.

So, let’s take some examples to illustrate this. Say, all of you are sitting for this class now. Now, the individual’s dharma is that if you are here, you keep your phone in silent, you don’t chit chat with others.

Now, all of you are here in this class. How many of you know the person sitting right next to you? Okay. Almost all of you know.

Okay. Well, this example doesn’t work so well over here. So, you know, suppose you did not know the person sitting next to you.

Now, still, whether you know or not, you can be quite confident that the person sitting next to you is not going to suddenly turn on you and slap you in the face. Now, can they do that? We can say anything is possible. But if somebody has come for a spiritual talk like this, we expect that they should have that much level of impulse control, that much level of self-discipline, that they want to do something like that.

So, there is a way of belonging to a larger whole. So, that is the individual dharma, how we belong to the larger whole. At the same time, dharma is not just individual to the collective.

So, the way to belong to the dharma is, for you is, you pay attention to the talk. But there is a dharma of the collective to the individual also. That if you are paying attention, if here I represent the collective, then I should be speaking something worth paying attention to.

So, when both the individual does their dharma to the collective and the collective does the dharma to the individual, then dharma leads to artha. Artha is something of value is done. So, for example, here if you pay attention and I speak something worth paying attention to, then at the end of the session, you will say paisa vasool.

I learnt something of value. So, similarly, if you are driving on the road. Now, when we start driving on the road, we start belonging to the larger road transport system.

We become, belonging means become a part of it. If we become a part of it, we have to follow the rules of the road. So, of the road transport.

Now, that is the individual should do for the collective. The collective should also be doing something. Yesterday we were going along the road and Varishbha was telling me that there is a cop here waiting to catch some bakra.

Then, you know, somebody will be, we want to just fine people. Sometimes, what happens sometimes in some localities, the governments have targets how much they want to collect in fines. So, even a small infraction, small indiscretion, they will charge a large fine.

So, now, if we find that the police are pulling over people from some demographic, some race, some religion, some nationality more than others. If they are being partial, they are being biased, then we start thinking why should I follow rules. Isn’t it? If the individual is doing the right thing for the collective, the collective should also be doing the right thing for the individual.

So, dharma in that sense is harmonious belonging which will lead to creation of some artha. In that case, the artha will be what? We will be able to safely, smoothly, swiftly get to our destination by road travel. So, dharma is wherever we are belonging, we learn to belong harmoniously.

And then from that artha comes. So, in that sense, dharma is a universal principle. So, we could belong to a family.

We work in a company. So, we belong to that company. We are living in a country.

So, we are being a part of that country. So, now, whichever larger whole we are a part of, we have a duty to that whole. And that whole has a duty to us.

If we are in a particular country, then we need to pay the taxes over there. We need to follow the laws of that country. And then that country will give us over a period of time, we may get some facilities, some utilities, some comforts.

And then along that, there is artha. Citizens follow the laws and work responsibly. The country provides amenities, then both the citizen and the country flourish.

So, dharma in that sense is a universal principle. Now, each one of us may belong to different larger wholes. We belong to a family, we belong to a community, we belong to an ethnicity, a country.

We belong to a professional group. Like that we may have many larger wholes that we belong to. Now, all these larger wholes are contained in one supreme whole.

That is Krishna. So, now, what we do in relationship with any of these wholes, larger wholes, that is dharma. So, we all have multiple dharmas.

We have dharma to our family, we have dharma to our company, we have dharma to our country. And ultimately, we have dharma to Krishna and that dharma to Krishna is called as bhakti. So, in that sense, bhakti is the paradharma.

Sarva-dharman parityajya maam ekam sharanam vraja. Now, Krishna is not just the largest whole. Aham sarvasya prabhavo.

All, everything comes from me. Krishna is not just the source of all the wholes. And ultimately the world comes from Krishna, our parents come from Krishna, everything comes from Krishna.

But Krishna is not just the source of all wholes. Krishna is also the sustainer of all wholes. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattaha sarvam pravartate.

Everything is sustained by me. And that means, as our conscious of dharma increases and elevates itself, expands, ultimately we come to the level of bhakti. So, the level of bhakti means that we understand that dharma is something which, it’s very difficult to directly think about God.

We can, but it’s difficult. So, let’s look at two different ways that it is Krishna who sustains all the wholes. So, how is that, say, if a mother takes care of a child.

Say, newborn baby is there, mother is feeding her breast milk to the child. That is one of the most intimate acts of love. It is the mother’s love for the child, but it is not just the mother’s love for the child.

Because the mother does not do anything special to manufacture milk in her breast at that time. The same God who sent a child through her womb into the world also sends milk in the mother’s breast for that child. So, that baby is being sustained by the mother, that is the mother’s love.

But that is also God’s love. That is also Krishna’s love. So, we all want to belong to certain wholes and within those wholes, we do our part and that part, we do our role for that particular larger collective and that collective does something for us.

So, when we understand this point, say, if we consider Dhruva, there are times when in a particular collective we do something for that collective and the collective does something for us. But sometimes that collective just doesn’t work. What do you mean by that? Say, for example, Dhruva, when he was so terribly insulted by his stepmother Suruchi and then what hurt him even more was that his father remained silent.

His children are also quite perceptive. So, he knew that my stepmother does not really like me very much. But he thought this is my father, at least my father should be supporting me.

The harshest words of our enemies don’t hurt us as much as the silence of our friends. So, that’s why when Dhruva gets angry, he doesn’t say that I want to destroy my stepmother. He says, my father did not let me sit on his lap.

I want a kingdom and a throne bigger than my father’s. So, his anger was directed more towards his father than his mother in one sense. He didn’t want to hurt his father, but he said, I will get something better than my father.

So, now at that time he went to his mother. And what happened? His mother, what she says over there is very significant. Now, before I come to what his mother says at that particular time, I will take a little bit of a personal detour over here.

That when we practice bhakti, there are two ways of looking at bhakti. That okay, everything else in the world is maya and we give up everything else and go to Krishna. So, that means, so if we consider Krishna and the world.

So, one way to look at it is, I am here and I have to give up the world and go to Krishna because all this is maya. The other is that this is the world, this is Krishna. When I am here, I go through the world to Krishna.

That means, here the world is like an obstacle or a distraction. Here the world is a distraction. So, what we do in the world, how we work in the world, that’s a distraction.

But here the world is like a stepping stone. How we function in the world helps us move towards Krishna. So, what happens is, we all have learned many things in our life.

Right now we are speaking in English. I am speaking English, you are listening. Now, you learn English in your school or you learn English after you come to New Zealand.

That is something you learned probably before you came to bhakti. Now, is that English knowledge maya? Well, in English there is a lot of maya that you can read. But it is that English knowledge now you are using to understand Krishna consciousness.

So, what we have learned in the past can also be a stepping stone. So, now with respect to the point of a mother, many of you know that I have polio. So, when I was one, I, we were staying in a small town in Maharashtra in a place called Chandrapur in India.

And my mother took me to a nearby clinic to get the polio vaccine when I was about one. Now, unfortunately, because it was a small town, there was frequent power supply outage. And the previous night the power supply had gone off because of that the fridge in which the vaccines had been kept had got heated up.

But neither the attendant nor the physician noticed that. And due to the increased temperature, the germs in the vaccine had multiplied. And when that vaccine was given to me, instead of preventing polio, it ended up causing polio.

So, I was just learning to walk, taking my first steps. And I fell down and I could never walk normally thereafter. Now, I don’t remember any of this.

But my first memory of it is when I was around two-and-a-half or three. And that time a distant relative had come to our home. And she was trying to console my mother saying, Oh, it’s so sad your son got polio.

And I remember my mother’s voice, very calm, clear, confident. She said, whatever he lacks physically, God will provide him intellectually. Now, I don’t know why she said that, whether it was an observation of some intellectual ability I had shown at that age or whether it was her hope, her prayer, her blessing, whatever, but that stayed with me.

Not the God part, the intellectually part, at least initially. And yes, as I started reading and studying, I noticed that I could read things quickly, I could remember things well, I could articulate things clearly. And I started developing myself intellectually.

So, later on, when I was introduced to bhakti, and I was introduced by mostly brahmachari preachers, and I was also inspired to become a brahmachari. So, that time one theme that could come up is that all the relationships in this world are just like maya. We are all like leaves who are flowing in an ocean.

And sometimes the leaves come together. One wave brings them together and one wave, another wave separates them. So, all relationships are temporary.

All relationships are illusory. There is that Chitraketu story, I don’t know if you know that story. And Chitraketu is a king who struggles a lot to get a son.

And he gets a son, whose name becomes Harshashoka, and then the son dies. And he is completely devastated by that. So, at that time the sages using mystical power get the son back.

And that son, the son’s soul back. And that soul speaks, you know, which mother, which father? I have had so many lifetimes and in so many lifetimes I had so many mothers and fathers. So, this seems to be very dismissive of the, of any relationship in this world.

And I found this very uncomfortable. To a large extent, my mother took a lot of care of me. And not only that she reassured me that I had intellectual ability, but as I am travelling across the world now, I am meeting with devotee parents.

Recently my brother had a baby. You know, parenting is extremely difficult. And parenting a handicapped child is probably hundred times more difficult.

But my mother never ever made me feel that I was a burden to her. And that’s why I have a certain level of self-acceptance. I don’t have any resentment about the way I am.

So, I felt that without my mother’s love, you know, I would have been much more psychologically damaged apart from because of the physical damage. So, the idea that my mother’s love is all false, which mother, which father, this was very difficult for me to digest. But then now coming back to the Dhruva story, that when Dhruva, Dhruva goes running to his mother, he is just a five-year-old child.

And now the maids have already told his mother what has happened. Her mother is also heartbroken. His mother is also heartbroken.

But there is nothing she can do at that time. So, what does she say at that time? She says, oh, Dhruva, if you want a kingdom bigger than your father’s, you need to go to Lord Vishnu. Says that whatever love I as a mother can offer you, Lord Vishnu can offer you more love than millions of mothers like me.

Now, what struck me when this statement came up is that is she devaluing her own love? When she is saying Vishnu’s love is millions of times more than me. So, if her love is Maya, if that is zero, then millions of times of zero is how much? It’s still zero. So, she is not saying my love for you is false.

So, it’s like a drop of water. And Lord Vishnu’s love is like an ocean. Now, we can say a drop is insignificant and ocean is so great.

That’s one way of looking at it. But another way of looking at it is that even that drop is so important for us in our daily relationships. And that drop can nourish us so much, can comfort us during our life’s challenges.

So, if this drop is so valuable, if the drop is so enriching, then how much more will the ocean be? So, here what has happened? Now, if we consider dharma in that particular context, that is Dhruva and his mother. So, if this is Dhruva, now a mother and a child are together. His mother is here.

So, the mother takes care of the child and the child listens to the mother, child obeys the mother. That is the normal way things work. But in this case, her child is hurt and there is nothing she can do about it.

So, at that time, what does she do? She tells him that in this case, how is it working? Let’s put it another way over here. There is very little she can do for him in this situation. So, at that time, she tells him, you connect with Lord Vishnu and Lord Vishnu can do for you what I cannot do for you.

So, similarly, now I already had a polio. My mother couldn’t do anything about it. She tried to… we tried many treatments, conventional, non-conventional, delusional, you know.

Like, you know, they tried everything. This baba is here, this pageant is here, so many things they tried. But nothing worked.

So, in those times, there was no internet. So, even when I got the polio and I fell down, they thought this is just some fever. It will come, it will go in one or two days.

They didn’t even know for weeks together that this is permanent. So, it is, you know, there are some things we cannot do. But what she told me is that yes, God has, God will provide you something and that way you will be taken care of.

So, in that sense, there is a natural harmony between dharma and bhakti. And for all of us to do our dharma properly, so, we may want to take care of our children. But we may not always be able to do what we want, what our children need.

Then what we cannot do? Yogakshema bahan. Krishna can provide for them. Sometimes the other way round.

Now, we may want to do something for the collective that we are a part of. So, the collective may not be able to do something for the individual. The individual may not be able to do for the collective.

So, Krishna can help in both. So, in that sense, dharma and bhakti are naturally related. When I am using the word dharma, I am not using it in terms of religion.

I am using it in terms of harmony. Whichever larger whole we are a part of, we belong to that larger whole. So, this way if you understand, dharma and bhakti can have a natural harmony among them.

So, for us to perform our dharma properly, we need the shelter and the strength coming from Krishna. And that we understand through the practice of bhakti. So, this was an elaborate analysis of the concept.

I have already gone into the insight, but let’s talk about the insight. So, concept was what? I talked about what is dharma, what is bhakti and how the two are naturally related. So, if I move towards the insight now, the key insight I will talk about one thing over here, that when we are practicing, when we are facing life, so, we all belong to many wholes.

So, we belong to a family, we belong to a country, we belong to a profession. And now, when we belong to these larger wholes, in each of these we try to do something and we get something from it. So, we work in a company, we do our work and we get salary.

We get not only salary, we also get a path to grow in our life. We are in a family and then we do something for our family members and family members care for us, support us. There is a natural reciprocation that we expect in whatever larger units we are a part of.

That’s natural. But sometimes it happens that in one unit we are doing a lot, but what we are getting is very little. Suppose we are in a job where we have to do a lot of work, but we are not getting much salary, we are not getting much recognition, it is frustrating.

If we are in a family, we are doing a lot for the other person, but the other person really doesn’t seem to value us, doesn’t seem to care for us, then again that could be a problem. So, of course, we may not acknowledge it, but sometimes the other opposite is also possible. The collective is doing a lot for us and we are doing very little for the collective.

So, like some people, they may live in a country and they may take all benefits from the country, but they don’t have a job, they don’t do anything constructive, they are not contributing to the country at all. So, they are like a burden on the country, financially, whatever. So, both ways are possible.

So, now why are we discussing this situation? See, this is where I will talk about the relationship between dharma and bhakti. And for example, when we start practicing bhakti, that means we start from a practical perspective, although I said Krishna is the ultimate whole to which we belong, but practically speaking say, if there is a husband and a wife or there is a parent and a child, so this is one relationship. So, this is say our dharma.

But then we could say, let’s say Krishna is above us. So, now this relationship with Krishna is our bhakti. Okay? So, we are trying to, we have our family, we have to take family responsibilities and then we also are practicing bhakti.

So, here sometimes it may happen that for us when we are practicing bhakti and we are practicing dharma. So, essentially what happens? If you consider this image, there are three relationships over here, or three individuals and three relationships. There is Krishna, there is me and there is the other person.

I will take two cases over here. The other person could be a spouse, the other person could be a child. Let’s focus on not who that other person is right now, but just let’s focus on this.

So, we could say, I have a relationship with Krishna, I have a relationship with the other person and the other person has a relationship with Krishna. Let’s call these as one, two and three. Now, the ideal situation is where dharma and bhakti go together.

So, Prabhupada says, one of the purposes of ISKCON is to bring all people closer to each other and closer to the prime entity Krishna. That means the best situation would be that what happens? Here, Krishna is here, we are here and the other person is here. So, we come closer to each other and we come closer to Krishna.

So, one becomes stronger, two becomes stronger, three also becomes stronger. Now, this is the best situation. Now, what could be a bad situation? Is that the worst situation if you put it? Okay, let me see if I can draw in the same image over here.

The worst situation would be that we go close to Krishna and the other person goes far away from Krishna and far away from us also. Now, this is dharma and bhakti together. Dharma, bhakti, harmony.

This is undesirable for us. We don’t want this to happen. Where in going closer to Krishna, the other person is going away from Krishna, that means they are going away from bhakti.

They are going away from us also, that means that relationship is also becoming weaker. It is also becoming problematic. Now, if this happens, then that can lead to a lot of frustration in the relationship.

Now, it’s very easy to blame the other person. Now, this person is, I know, bhakti is so good, I am practicing bhakti, I want other person to practice. Why is the other person not practicing? And it’s easy to blame the other person.

But blaming is not very helpful. So, I was talking with one boy in America. He was born, young man, he is now young man, actually almost my age, not a young man also, he is almost 35-40, 45 probably.

So, he was born in a devotee family. And he is a son of Prabhupada disciples. And he went to a gurukul and he basically grew up in the movement.

And he told me that very intelligent boy, he is favorable to Krishna, not so much favorable to ISKCON. So, he said that my most prominent memory while growing up is my parents’ constant disappointment that I was not the reincarnation of Prahlad Maharaj. So, he said that I felt that throughout my childhood, I never felt as if my parents loved me for who I was.

He said, I felt as if I was simply a trophy to be exhibited by my parents to the devotee community. See, our child is such a nice devotee. And I felt that if I am not a devotee, my parents would not love me at all.

Now, that is not a very comfortable way to grow up. That yes, we want our children to become devotees, but we can’t force them. So, here what is happening is, let’s try to understand where things are going wrong over here.

That any relationship, so, as I said, there is bhakti is where it’s our relationship with Krishna. And dharma is our relationship with the other person. So, normally, in our any relationship, what happens? I do something for you and you do something for me.

Now, this we could say is broadly a healthy relationship. When both people are doing something for the other person. I mean, any relationship, if it starts happening, that I feel that I am doing a lot for the other person and the other person is doing very little for me, then this is where that relationship starts becoming strained.

Now, this may lead us to think, should I be in this relationship? Now, on the other hand, the same thing can happen if it’s from our side. That the other person feels I am doing what I was doing for you, but what you are doing is becoming lesser and lesser. Then also it will become strained.

So, unfortunately, sometimes when we start practicing bhakti, what happens in our normal relationships, what we do for the other person starts decreasing. For example, you know, we might be spending time watching TV with others or going for some outing or going for some social events. And you start saying, all this is maya.

I don’t want to do this. So, now, yeah, it may be maya, that’s okay. We will discuss that.

But from that person’s perspective, what we were doing together, we are no longer doing that. So, in one sense, what is happening is our contribution is decreasing. And not only that, sometimes our expectation from that person increases.

How is that expectation increasing? Oh, you know, don’t eat meat, don’t drink tea, coffee, don’t take onion, garlic, don’t do this, don’t do that and come to the temple, wake up at this time, chant this around. So, what we are doing for the other person starts decreasing and what we are expecting from the other person starts increasing. And then that naturally creates a strain in that relationship.

And this is where unnecessary unpleasantness can come in the relationship. So, many times due to this, we are trying to practice bhakti. But in practicing bhakti seriously, what we try to do is, we try to force the other person also to practice bhakti.

One is our practice of bhakti, the other is their practice of bhakti. So, when we try to force them, then things start going very much wrong. So, going back to that earlier diagram over here, let’s put it over here only.

This is Krishna and this is me and this is the other person. So, what happens if we try to put force over here? Then often this three, we try to put a lot of force on that. Then that creates a strain in two.

So, if we go this way and then that causes disturbance in one. You know, if there is a strain in the relationship, then what happens? A little action causes an explosion. That person gets upset by something, we get upset by something.

And when this happens, then we cannot really practice bhakti properly. See, if there is a strain, it’s almost like there is a cold war in their home. And the cold war can become a hot war at any time.

And then if there has been a cold war or there is a concern that there might be a hot war, and then we sit down to chant. You know, to chant our home has to be like Vrindavan. But if our home is like Kurukshetra, then it’s very difficult to chant at that time.

So, if we start with three, try to put force on three, then that means that person should develop a relationship with Krishna. That creates strain in two and that creates disturbance, distraction, agitation in one. So, couple of examples to illustrate this.

That there is one devotee, he was from Maharashtra, where Ganesha Puja is very big. And he became a devotee. Now, in his family, Ganesha Puja has been going on for many generations.

They were themselves Brahmins, so they would conduct Ganesha Puja for others also. So, he became a devotee and started saying, you know, Krishna is God. Now, yes, Krishna is God and all Hindus will agree with the point that Krishna is God.

But where they have a problem is, only Krishna is God. That is where the problem comes. So, and his parents invited him for Ganesha Puja.

They said, you know, there is no need to do Ganesha Puja. And he told them the Govardhan Leela past time. He says, Krishna stopped Indra Puja and started doing Govardhan Puja.

He says, there is no need for Ganesha Puja. This is Karmakant. That itself agitated his parents.

And then he told, the parents said, come here. Nothing, nothing. This is our Puja.

We are going to do it and you should come here. So, then he came for the Puja. When he came, naturally in Ganesha Puja there will be a modak.

So, his mother had made some modak and he offered it. And he thought, you know, I am a Krishna devotee. I will take only Krishna Prasad.

I won’t take any Ganesha Prasad. So, his mother gave it to him. She took the modak, put it in the mouth and he said he had to go.

He said, I just need to go. They thought they will go to the restroom or something. He went to the nearby window and from the window he spit out the modak.

And he spit it out and at that time some relatives were coming from that side. And they saw what had happened. And then the whole Ganesha Puja became a Yudhav Kshetra.

And then his parents started telling him, these Iskcon people are making you fanatical and they are actually disturbing your dharma and stop going there only. So, what happened was, he tried to force three and he tried to change two. And because of that the one itself became disrupted.

So, bhakti, you know, Thakur says in Chaitanya Shiksha Amrita that as devotees, there are, for us the spiritual festival like Janmashtami, Ram Navami, these are what is important for us. We look forward to it. But he says, there are also social events that might be there, cultural events might be there.

And devotees can be a part of that as a part of the dharma that they do. So, we cannot simply give up all dharma in the name of bhakti. So, if we are a part of a particular community, now, yes, we want to take food that is offered to Krishna.

But throughout the year, if we are taking food that is offered to Krishna, on one occasion, if we are taking one morsel of food that is offered to Ganesh, not Ganesh, that is, it’s not that our dharma is going to be destroyed by that. Not our bhakti is going to be destroyed by that. So, we need to na buddhi bhedam janet.

Don’t disturb people’s minds. Don’t force people to do what we think is the right thing. So, the better way to do this is, if, as I said, this is the best situation.

If this is not happening, then what we can do? We can treat these three as separate. This is our bhakti. We do this.

And our relationship with Krishna is our bhakti. Our relationship with the other person is our dharma. So, we treat each of them as separate.

So, we create space and time for our bhakti and we create space and time for our dharma. And the last, their relationship with Krishna is where we leave it to Krishna. This is between you and Krishna.

Krishna, I cannot force you. Now, we can encourage, we can facilitate, but we cannot force. This is where we have to have some sharanagati.

Krishna, this is not just my child, this is your child. And how that my child will come to you? I have done my part. I have given some samskaras, but ultimately it is between you and child.

Between you and that person. So, if we do like this, then we will find that the problems, the disturbances that come in our family life, in our social life, they will decrease substantially. Now, of course, do we want them also to practice bhakti? Yeah, we want.

But there is a difference between wanting and forcing. We can pray that Krishna from within their heart attract them. We can also try to see what we can do to attract them.

But the best way we can attract them is if they start feeling that our practice of bhakti has made, our bhakti has led to our dharma becoming better. That means, because of my bhakti, I have become a better mother or a father. Or because of my bhakti, I have become a better wife or a better husband.

Because of my bhakti, or rather because of this person’s bhakti, they feel, oh, this person has become a better son, a better daughter, a better sister, a better brother, a better friend. Now, better can have many different definitions. If they say that, you know, let’s go to a drinking party.

And now, that is not really being a friend. So, how we can be better, that can vary from situation to situation. But the takeaway is, if they start feeling that by our practice of bhakti, we are more understanding of them, we are more there for them when we need them, that we care for them more, you know, maybe we are more tolerant and more accepting, then they will actually, that will attract them to Krishna much more.

So, the last point I will do, the takeaway is that dharma and bhakti both should as I said go together. So, for all of us, there is dharma as the x-axis, bhakti as the y-axis. And we can have dharma as yes or no and bhakti as yes or no, the positive and the negative of the two axis.

So, we can have four quadrants. Oh wow! This squad is not doing dharma now. Okay.

At what point did this stop? Okay. One time I was giving a class and actually I stopped, this projection stopped and nobody told me. And went on and on and finally, I drew something and I was expecting people to respond and they are looking at me as if they are watching a foreign language movie without subtitles.

And I wondered what happened. There is nothing over there. So, I said, no, when did this start? It was 20 minutes ago.

I said, no, why did you tell me? She says, we didn’t want to disturb you. I said, now you have disturbed me even more. Is the projection itself on or no? Yeah, restarted.

It takes a while. Okay. So, basically there are four quadrants.

Whether there is dharma and bhakti. It was only this level of brightness throughout? It’s just coming up. When it is restarted, it takes time.

Okay, sure. No problem. It’s fine enough.

So, now we could say the worst situation is where there is no dharma and there is no bhakti. So, for example, as a parent, there are some parents who are like, it’s, the parents are so caught in their own head that they, some parents might themselves be alcoholics or drug addicts or whatever. They don’t even know their child exists.

In California, they made a rule. I think it’s common in other parts of the world also. See, in the western world, physical safety, there is a lot of importance for that.

So, if you have a small child, you cannot have the child on your lap. There is a baby child seat. The child seat is behind.

So, it happened a few times that the mother or the father, whoever, mostly the mother was driving the child and the mother went out of the car and forgot that there is a baby behind. And then it became a big problem. And fortunately somebody found and before the baby got suffocated.

So, they thought that we should have a sensor in the car that if all the doors are closed and nobody is sitting on the front car, front seat of the car and the baby seat is occupied, then the car should start beeping. Like if somebody tries to break a car, then in some cars there are sensors, it starts beeping if some unauthorized person starts opening the car. So, now, so, there was a, this was, they said that we will make a rule that all cars should have like this.

Then there was an American senator, he said that, you know, if people forget their children, then they should forget the idea of having children. Isn’t it? How can you forget a child? So, adharma would mean that there is no spirituality and there is no material sense of responsibility also. This would be a terrible situation.

So, worse in the sense that it like the present is bad and the future will also be bad. Because there is no dharma, right now also there is nothing good happening in the relationship. And because there is no bhakti, there is no spiritual prospects also good.

So, both are bad. Now, if there is dharma but no bhakti, then what will happen is, the present may be good. That means, say, in any larger whole, we are part of, we are doing our job in the company, the company is paying us.

The present is good, but the future will be bad. Because there is no bhakti, there is no spiritual growth over here. So, it can be good, but good without God, that doesn’t mean the future will be elevated.

Now, if we have only bhakti but no dharma, then what is going to happen? The future will be good. But the present will not be so good. The present may become bad.

So, for example, if there is a devotee who is a heart surgeon and we have got a heart attack and we are told that we have to do some surgery for our heart now to fix something. And then we go to the devotee doctor and the doctor says, I promise you that while I am doing a heart surgery, I will chant Hare Krishna. He will say, okay, but will you do the surgery properly? I can’t guarantee that, but I will guarantee I will chant Hare Krishna.

Then we will say, I want to go back to Krishna, but not so soon. So, if we are a part of a larger whole, we have to play our part in that larger whole. So, dharma without bhakti can be counterproductive.

So, if we call ourselves devotees, we present ourselves as devotees, we are working in a company and we don’t do our job in the company, then everybody will start thinking that these people who become devotees are like this. So, dharma without bhakti can be problematic. So, yes, that particular devotee may even go back, may go closer to Krishna.

But while going closer to Krishna, that devotee will be pushing everybody away from Krishna. Isn’t it? So, the best is where dharma and bhakti both are there going harmoniously. So, by doing our dharma, our present will be good.

And by doing bhakti, our future will be good. Now, this is not that simple. As I said, bhakti can also improve our present.

Because bhakti can also inspire us to do our dharma better. And doing dharma can also prepare us for bhakti. If we have learnt to be responsible that whatever larger whole we are a part of, we always be responsible, then we come to a devotee community, we will be responsible there also.

So, in that sense, it’s not so black and white. But the idea is that when we are able to put dharma and bhakti together, each one of us can move forward in a way that is least disruptive for others. So, while also being as constructive as possible for them.

So, one last point I will add over here, between this quadrants one and three, that in this particular thing, see, we may care, it’s like, when we are caring for someone, say, as a parent, we are caring for a child. So, at one level, should a parent’s love for a child be conditional or unconditional? Now, we can say unconditional, but at the same time, there has to be some accountability, isn’t it? You can say that I will always love you, what Devotee showed via cartoon, like a parent is selling a child, he says, you know, the child has grown up now, he says, I will always love you, but I just don’t like you anymore. Now, what do you mean that, you know, the child is not behaving properly, the parent is not behaving properly.

And love means, as a responsibility, I will do what I want. But there is no attraction, no affection over there. It’s a very unfortunate situation to be in.

My point is, that as a parent, we have to take care of the present of our child, we also need to take care of the future of our child, isn’t it? So, parenting can go towards two extremes. There are conservative parents, there are liberal parents. Conservative parents are very strict to do this, do this, do this, do this.

Broadly, Indian parenting or Eastern parenting is much more conservative. Western parenting is much more liberal. So, the idea is that we can care for the future of our child or we can care for the present of our child.

So, care for the future of our child means, you study, you do this, you learn this, learn this, then you will have a bright future. It’s important. Present means, you know, I want you to be happy, I want you to be comfortable.

All the things that I did not have when I was growing up, I want you to have all those things, all the joys and pleasures of life. Both, there is something right over there. However, if we care only for the future of the child without caring for the present, that means the child will feel suffocated.

Bad. You know, I don’t have any space right now. This is good for you in the future.

But what is good for me right now? I want to play, I want to have some fun. So, the future, we cannot have future good completely at the cost of present good. At the same time, if we care only for the present and not for the future, the child will stagnate.

Child says, I want to play, I want to have fun. I don’t like to study. Okay, you want to play, you just do that.

So, we cannot have either extreme. So, when we are trying to help mentor anyone, raise anyone, whether it is materially or spiritually, we have to find a balance. What is the nature of the balance? That they should feel at one level accepted.

That however I am, I am accepted, I am valued. At the same time, just being accepted is not enough. They should also feel inspired.

Inspired to become better. Inspired to do more. Encouraged, inspired, pushed, whatever it is.

So, that balance, how to do that, that is something which is a challenge for everyone. And that’s why we have to talk with the other person to understand, okay, when I am telling that, how is it affecting the other person? Sometimes, see, naturally in any relationship there will be expectations. And if the expectations are not fulfilled, there is a certain amount of disappointment.

But, you know, even if you don’t do this, I still accept you. Naturally, if you do this, I will be happier with you. And you feel inspired to do that.

So, for, if we have two, three children, each child it may be a different balance. Some children may need a little more space. Some children may like, may grow in much more structure.

So, we have to find that. What applies to parent children can also apply to us when we are trying to guide other devotees. We are working in a, for doing some service.

So, basically, dharma and bhakti can both go together. So, in this way, each one of us can have our relationships in a way that is constructive for us and constructive for others. So, our starting prayer, let’s go back to that and conclude with that.

Who would like to read this last paragraph? Yes, we help others. We learn how to help others to learn. Let’s conclude with this prayer once again.

Repeat after me. My dear Lord, help me to learn how to help others to learn. So, I will quickly summarize what we discussed.

We discussed about the theme of healthy relationships. But healthy relationship we talked about as dharma and bhakti together. Dharma, bhakti, harmony.

So, I talked about the concept. Concept, dharma means, dharma is belonging. That the individual belongs to the collective, the collective does something for the individual.

So, we discussed these two meanings in the Bhagavad Gita. So, when we understand dharma in this way, dharma leads to artha. We are able to do something of value.

And we have many dharmas because we belong to many larger holes. The largest hole that we belong to is Krishna. So, in that sense, dharma culminates in bhakti.

So, I discussed the example of my mother and Dhruva’s mother also about how sometimes in a particular relationship, if the other person is not able to do something for us and they can encourage us to take shelter of Krishna, Krishna will do it for you. So, dharma and bhakti can go together. So, that was the broad concept that I discussed.

Then the insight was that for each of us, especially when we are trying to practice bhakti, we have two dimensions of relationships. We have a dharma which is a relationship with other person and then if we have Krishna above, then we have our bhakti which is our relationship with the other person. So, what should ideally happen is that both of these should go together.

So, if Krishna, me and the other person, so the three of us, the three relationships over here, the best is where we move closer to Krishna, the other person moves closer to Krishna and we move closer to each other. But the worst is where we are moving closer to Krishna, but the other person is moving further away from us and further away from Krishna. And this can happen because we get the priority wrong.

The priority wrong means what happens? We try to use force in the third relationship, try to force other person to take to bhakti and we try to force over here, that leads to strain in our relationship with that person and that strain causes disturbance in our bhakti also. So, we don’t want such disturbance in our bhakti. So, what do we do? We talk about take away was we try to have a harmony of dharma and bhakti.

That we try to put ourselves, we see dharma is where we are doing what we can in the particular larger whole that we are a part of. So, if you have four quadrants, then the fourth is the best where the present and the future both will be good. Otherwise the present is, present future both are bad.

The present is good when the dharma is there. But the future will not be good. On the other hand, if we have bhakti but no dharma, then we are creating a good future, but the present is bad.

So, what we want is, we don’t want this situation. We try to have to find the balance between, if you are talking about any kind of guiding, guidance relationship, we have to find the balance between we care only for the future or we care only for the present. If we care only for the present, then the other person will feel suffocated.

I don’t have any space at all. Care only for the present, other person will feel stagnated, will become stagnated. So, we find an individual balance where the other person is both accepted as well as inspired.

The love is unconditional in the sense that whatever you do, I accept you, I will be there for you. But at the same time, while they are accepted, there is also, they are inspired, okay, I should become better. So, finding that balance is a challenge.

But as we practice our bhakti and pray to Krishna, then and use our intelligence, then dadahami buddhi yogamtam, by which we get the intelligence, by which we can find this balance in our relationships with each other as we develop our relationship with Krishna. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.

Do you have time for one or two questions? Yes, please. Yes, please. Pramodji, so, as you mentioned about government, right? We all go to different governments, and there is a lot of time that is required to be able to maintain those terms.

And those foreign countries also have expert government who will reach for the organization, or the people, or the center, or follow. So, I don’t understand that you are downloading all the different people, for example, your friends, your family, your work, your society, where there is expectation. How do I understand what is an undue expectation or what is a reasonable expectation? And then the second part is then how to also deal with those expectations? Because sometimes you can have, there is only 24 hours in a day and you have something set to do.

Correct. See, bhakti can be seen in two distinct ways. We have so many things to do in our life and bhakti is another to-do.

You know, I already have such a packed schedule and I have so many more things to do. Now, I have to go to the temple also, I have to chant my round also. One day somebody was telling me that the most people, when the weekend comes, they are relieved.

He says, for me, weekends are more busy than the weekdays because there are so many services. He says, when Monday comes, I feel relieved. Sometimes it can feel like bhakti is just another to-do.

But actually, while there is some truth to it, the bigger truth is bhakti is actually another way to do. Bhakti is understanding that I am a part of Krishna and it is by Krishna’s arrangement that I am in a particular place in my life. I am in this particular relationship, I am in this particular job, I am in this particular country.

That service attitude, that sevabhav permeates all our roles. So, bhakti in that sense, if we bring service attitude, in everything that we do, we will actually be able to do much more. Bhakti also calms our mind.

The anarthas go down. In the same time, we are also able to do much more. All that is true.

Having said that, when we talk about dharma, we also, even if we were not devotees, it is not that we can do unlimited things in any role. People talk about work-life balance. That means, okay, how much time should we spend on work, how much time on family, how much time on self.

So, each one of us has to find that balance. So, the way to find that balance in a practical perspective, we could say as devotees, we will have three large broad belongings for us. One is, this is another way of understanding these terms now, that one is we have our family, we have our job, office, and we have our temple, we have our satsang, we have our spirituality.

So, now, we belong to all these three, three main, may be other things also, but three main things. Now, we have roles in all of these. So, we may have to decide that at certain times, certain things may take more priority.

So, for example, if there is a big project deadline, at that time, in our work, then we may have to spend more time over there. So, if there is a big festival coming in the temple, then we may spend more time over there. If there is a wedding, if there is a pregnancy, if there is some family emergency, we spend more time over there.

So, that’s why balance, when we want to talk about balance, balance is not so much a formula that, you know, okay, this time I will do this, this time I will do this, this time I will do this. It doesn’t work that simple. You know, balance is rather than a formula, it is more of a, a formula is often static.

This is the formula, you use it. Balance is more like a dynamic harmony. Dynamic, not exactly harmony, it’s a dynamic decision that, okay, at this point I will prioritize more of this.

We can have some broad structure for our life. This is the time I will do this, these weekdays I will do this, in the morning I will do this, evening I will do this. We need a broad structure, no doubt.

But beyond that, we also have, if we have a broad understanding of what is important for us, we make decisions according to deshi kalpatra, okay. So, we have to communicate that if other people have some unreasonable expectations from us or what we think is unreasonable, then we have to discuss, this is what you are expecting from me, this is what I can do. And these are difficult discussions, but these are required everywhere in life.

Yes, if you are not devotees, does that mean we will constantly be available for a family? Maybe you would have some other hobbies, maybe you would have got into some distractions also. There are so many people who are at home, but they are just on their phones, they are surfing the net. So, you know, it’s, everybody needs their own time and I think we have to have a discussion.

First, in our own intelligence we need to understand how I am going to prioritize what. And then we communicate with the other person. Narada Muni tells Yudhishthir Maharaj when he comes, when he becomes the king, he says that, he talks about the dharma, artha, kama over there in a slightly different sense.

There the word dharma can mean religion. And artha is the job. Kama is the family.

So, what he says is that in this particular meaning, dharma, our job gives us money, going to temple is our dharma and then with our family we have kama. So, he says, he talks about profit, religion and pleasure. He says, don’t pursue profit at the cost of religion and pleasure.

That is like a person becomes a workaholic. Don’t pursue pleasure at the cost of profit and religion. That means that person becomes so attached that the person becomes dysfunctional or irresponsible in other areas of their life.

And he says, don’t pursue religion at the cost of profit and pleasure. That is a person becomes an escapist. Person runs away from this.

So, we need to be able to find ourselves as broadly placed at the center of all these three. Okay. Thank you.

Yes, do. You have a question? Hi Krishna. One of the best spiritual practical lecture I have ever read.

Thank you very much. My question is a small one, short question, small question. For somebody who is actually doing bhakti, how can they not do dharma? Just allow them to go in life.

Because anyone who is performing bhakti should, if they are really doing it in real sense, they should find the sense of beauty of that master. See, it depends on two things. One is, it could be a misconception.

And it could also be like that there is a possibility that say somebody like I have become a brahmachari. No, I am not there for my father the way my other brother is there. Of course, my other brother is also in America.

He is also not with my father. He is in India. But in one sense, there were some people who may take sannyas.

So, that is where you practice bhakti full time and then the dharma in terms of the other relationship, that becomes lesser. That is a valid way. But that is not the way for everyone.

And that should not be forced for everyone. So, there should not be. So, if somebody is married, then they should not neglect their family in the name of bhakti.

Prabhupada himself said that, when he met his spiritual master, he was very inspired, he said that, if I had met my spiritual master couple of years before, then I would have joined full time, I would have become missionary in a moment. Now I was married, I had a wife, I had a child, it would be unfair for them. So, Prabhupada also did his grahastha responsibilities diligently.

And that’s important. Sometimes some devotees may misunderstand and that’s how they may neglect the dharma. So, we need to be careful that bhakti starts taking so much time that we have no time for our dharma.

That’s where it can go wrong in that sense. Yes, sir. Probably in the triangle that you said, Krishna, me and others.

So, we are looking from me perspective, you know, what, how should we be in dharma and how should we be in bhakti. But what if the other is very imposing on us? Like, you know, that you should do this, you should do this. Like, you got problem about Krishna.

So, what should we do? Yeah. See, I focused on the one part that we are imposing on others. But the other part is also the other person is imposing on us.

Yeah, that’s why each of us, in the first session I talked about what is negotiable for us and what is non-negotiable for us. And similarly, what is not negotiable, non-negotiable for others. So, every relationship requires, if I am, every relationship, you could say, in any relationship, I do something for you, you do something for me.

And especially it’s a long-term committed relationship, then it requires that we change ourselves for the other person to some extent. It also requires the other person to change ourselves for us. Now, when we change ourselves for a particular relationship, now, is that a good thing, is it bad thing? It depends in what kind of change is happening.

So, sometimes we feel that in this relationship, actually, through this relationship, I have become a better person. Or sometimes, through this relationship, I have become a bitter person. That I may feel that I am losing myself.

So, then we have to communicate with the other person to clearly say, this is important for me and this is something which I am not going to change. But within that, you know, these are things which I am ready to adjust. So, it is a difficult discussions, but they are important to have.

To understand that not everything can be changed for the sake of a relationship. We need to, whenever we talk about relationship, we can go to extremes. That we change everything about ourselves for the sake of the relationship.

Change everything, then what happens? We lose ourselves in the relationship. Lose ourselves, not in the positive sense. But we become someone different from our values, our purposes and we change nothing.

Then what happens is, we lose the other person or we lose the relationship itself. So, we have to find out what we can change and what we can’t change. That has to be a balance in every relationship.

For example, parenting. Now, from the Gita’s perspective, many times, if you say parenting, people say that children are like clay. And the parents process the samskaras by which the children are shaped.

Now, parenting, the child according to Gita is not like a clay. Clay means, clay has no shape at all. The parents put whatever shape they want.

But according to Gita, the child is like a seed. So, that means, it is for the parents to understand what kind of seed do I have. That is this a mango seed? Is this an orange seed? Is this a, what kind of seed is it? So, it is not that, we have to also understand the child’s interest, the child’s nature and guide the child towards a career accordingly.

So, if we try to force the child, the child has no interest in maths, the child has interest in language, you become an engineer. The child will be completely miserable. So, there are certain things which you can’t change for the child.

But at the same time, if the child says, I will not change anything at all. It’s not going to work. The child will never grow up.

So, this is a challenge in every relationship. How much should we change for the sake of the relationship? And some difficult discussions, if we do them respectfully, politely, candidly, then gradually, we come to a mutual understanding. Thank you very much.

Yes, ma’am. Thank you very much, Praveen. Very wonderful class.

Now, in the context of your class, how do we understand the final verse of the Gita, where it seems that Krishna is saying, all these other dharmas that you have with others, that can be given up and you only focus on Me, on Thee. Yeah. It’s a good question.

I have a whole class on different Acharya’s commentaries. Seven meanings of this word Sarva Dharmaan Parityajya, what it means. I won’t go into all of those, just quickly in the context of the Gita.

I told earlier about the Chitraketu pastime, where Harsha Shoka says that which mother, which father. But it’s not Harsha Shoka who is saying that. It’s the soul who is saying that.

See, if we are, the soul has already, the person has already died and has gone to a, is on the journey to the next life and he is called back. So, that relationship is no longer existing now. That time we can say which mother, which father.

But in this lifetime, we cannot tell our parents which mother, which father. Isn’t it? Right now that relationship is alive and active. So, the dharma is required over there.

So, now in the context of the Gita, what is happening for Arjuna is, at the start, he is torn between two dharmas. One is he comes ready to do his Kshatriya dharma. He is a warrior and as a warrior he is supposed to fight.

And he comes ready to do that. But then when he comes on the battlefield and comes in the middle of the battlefield, he sees all these people are a part of my own Kula. They are my dynasty.

And he says, I have my Kula Dharma also. And Kula Dharma means I shouldn’t fight. They are my family.

I should try to protect them. And Arjuna is torn between those two dharmas. So, sometimes our two dharmas can pull us in opposite directions.

Like somebody has a professional and they are a parent. And they have an urgent project deadline and they have a big meeting in the company. At that time we get a call from the child.

Your child is injured. Come to the school. Now, what should we do at that time? Now, there are two dharmas over there and two can pull in opposite directions.

So, Arjuna is feeling like that. So, when Krishna says, sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja. Now, what he is saying is, in this case we have two ways of looking at it.

Krishna is here and we said bhakti is over here. That is one way of looking at it. But another way is that we are meant to serve Krishna.

And which is the best way we can serve Krishna in this situation. So, like Einstein said, problems cannot be solved at the same level of consciousness that created them. So, from a material perspective, Kula Dharma and Kshatriya Dharma which is more important.

From a material hierarchy if you weigh, it will be very difficult. Although Krishna analyzes from material perspective also says that material means, like, yeah, from analytical, logical perspective, he says, in this context, your Kshatriya Dharma should be more important than Kula Dharma. But if Arjuna is not sure about it, he says, look from a spiritual perspective.

Spiritual perspective means, you should ultimately, as a parent, we are serving Krishna by taking care of our child. As a professional, we are serving Krishna by using the abilities that he has given to do something of value in the world, to create something of value for our own financial stability so that we can serve Krishna. So, in that sense, both our job and our family, they are also services to Krishna.

But then, which of those is more anukun? So, Krishna says, in that context, my plan for you is that you help me establish a dharmic order in the world. And therefore, Krishna says, if you want to practice bhakti, for the sake of practicing bhakti, you need to do your Kshatriya Dharma over there. So, at the end, this is the way bhakti is to be practiced for Arjuna.

So, when Krishna tells Arjuna, surrender, sharanam vraja. So, there are some commentators who say that vraja. Vraja means to go.

And Krishna is saying go. But Krishna is right there. So, they say, oh, Krishna is actually telling there is some impersonal Brahman or Viratopaya to go and… But if you look at that, that’s not what Krishna is telling.

And Arjuna does not leave the battlefield and go to some impersonal Brahman. There vraja means, also means to move. Vraja is the place of movement.

And in 2.64 also, Sita Pragya Sikha Bhasha, kim asita vrajet kim. So, Krishna is telling, sharanagati in this context means you are turned away from the battlefield towards me, but now turn towards the battlefield and fight. So, vraja means go into the world and do your action.

So, afterwards, Arjuna does do his Kshatriya dharma. But his consciousness is not just, I am doing this because I am a Kshatriya. He says, I am doing this because this is the way I can best serve Krishna in this situation.

That’s why later on, when Arjuna surrenders, he doesn’t say, I will yudhya cha. He says, karishye vachanam tavad. He doesn’t say karishye yudha.

I will fight. He doesn’t say that. I will do your will.

So, sarva dharman parityajya does not literally mean give up all dharma and become adharmic. So, if you go back to these four quadrants over here, that when it says give up all dharma and come to me, that means that any dharma, no matter how important it is, if it is stopping you from coming to me, then you need to give it up for the practice of bhakti. But that does not mean that all the time we necessarily have to do that.

There can be some emergency situations when we give up dharma for the practice of bhakti. For example, the gopis, when Krishna plays his flute and calls them at night. Now, from the perspective of a sthri dharma, for a woman to leave her home and to go at midnight to be with some other man, that is adharma.

But that is not adharma, that is paradharma for them. That they are ready to generally on the practice of bhakti, we often have to sacrifice for the object of love. So, when we sacrifice, this is the second meaning which we will conclude, the bigger meaning that sometimes we have to give up dharma for bhakti.

So, for the sake of bhakti, we have to give up some things. We have to sacrifice. So, initially when we sacrifice, we may sacrifice something bad.

We give up sinful activities. So, we follow the four aggregate principles. Now, beyond that, we may sacrifice something good.

That means, say for example, we may give money, we give charity. Bad means we give up sins. But then good can be, we can sacrifice something good which is gross.

But then much more difficult to sacrifice is good that is subtle. Subtle means where we give up our reputation also. So, imagine suppose somebody gives charity and they give lot of charity.

But they give it anonymously. Nobody comes to know. In one sense they are sacrificing that they have given so much charity.

But they are not seeking any fame. Because that’s very selfless. But imagine because they give the charity anonymously, the whole community says, you are so wealthy and you have given no charity.

And everybody criticizes them for that. It will be unbearable, isn’t it? If you are doing something glorious, that the person will say, I have given more charity than all of you combined. But they are getting criticism for that.

That is very very difficult to bear. So, to not give up a good reputation is bad, is difficult. But to accept a bad reputation for the sake of Krishna, that is very difficult.

So, for the Gopis in that particular social culture, for a woman to go out to be with another man means socially she is ruined. And the Gopis are ready to accept that social ruin for Krishna’s sake. pati-sutanvaya, bhratra-bandhavan, ate-bilangyate, antya-chutagataha That we have given up all our family members because you called us Krishna.

We came to you. So, now from the perspective of the Gopis, they are ready to do it all for Krishna. So, Krishna appreciates them but Krishna also simultaneously protects their dharma.

What Krishna does is that he arranges for Chhaya Gopis to be there so that when the Gopis come back, their family will, oh, you just woke up and you went to take a bath and you have come back now. So, they think that night that those Chhaya Gopis or Maya Gopis were there with them. So, Krishna protects their dharma also.

So, in some situations, a devotee may have to give up dharma for the sake of bhakti. But those are rare emergency situations. And that is our bhakti that we should be ready to do that.

But the emergency should not become a normal or a standard. That is normally dharma and bhakti go together. Does it answer your question? Thank you very much.