Protecting without isolating How to raise our children Gurgaon Chaitanya Charan

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Transcript

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I was given a photograph today, yesterday evening, I had a programme in Kolkata, so I had to take flight. And Gurgaon is one of the, I would say, most promising places in all of India where we have outreach going on wonderfully, and I look forward to coming here. In general, the places where we have a good number of educated people from software and other backgrounds, whichever part of the world that is, generally our outreach seems to be increasing over there.
In America, Silicon Valley is the place where we have the most vibrant, one of the most vibrant devotee communities. Now California is becoming a very highly taxed state, so a lot of Californians are going to tax Texas now. So, I was in Texas and the devotee was telling me that their outreach has increased, their community has increased three times, not so much by expansion as by integration.
So people have integrated. I was travelling last time to America and I met one sitting next to me, was a person who was a builder, American in construction. And he was telling me that now in Texas there are so many Indians that they, normally if a house is there, it’s a sea-facing house, it costs a lot.
So now in Texas they are making, western builders are making vastu-compliant architecture. And among all the houses, the east-facing house is like a premium house. So, probably even Texas also, especially Austin.
Now we have three centres in Austin, and Austin is the capital of Texas, so a lot of software people are going over there. So, I think 15-20 years ago, wherever there were engineering colleges, our preaching was expanding. Now it seems wherever there are software setups, our preaching is expanding.
So, I am happy to be here. So, I will be talking, some of you have been given this book. This is Prayers Inspired by Bhagavad Gita.
So basically I have been writing on the Bhagavad Gita for the last 11 years. Every day I am writing one article. I have more than 5000 articles in the Gita Lady.
And from the start of this year, I felt that there is a lot of analysis of the Gita, but the Gita is also the word of Krishna and there is a bhakti essence to it. So, I wanted to approach that more. So, I look at how our acharyas have approached the Gita, apart from the commentaries.
I also check out how they have referred to the Gita verses. So, I noticed there are many prayers, which to me seem to be directly inspired by the Bhagavad Gita verses. So, if Krishna is above us and we are here, Krishna is giving us instructions, but Krishna is not just a teacher who is giving us instructions.
Krishna is also our benefactor. He is our Lord. So, Krishna can not only give us instruction, but Krishna can also give us empowerment to follow the instructions.
And thus, we often pray many things to Krishna, but if those very instructions could become the inspirations for prayer. So, for example, there is a prayer in Pune Shikhar Maharaj’s Upad Mahasodra. samsāre sāgare nimagnamananda dīnaṁ uddhāratu varasi hare puruṣo uttamo spi He says, this ocean of material existence is inexhaustible and insurmountable.
It behoves you, O Lord, to lift me out of this ocean. uddhāratu varasi hare puruṣo uttamo spi. It behoves you.
Why it behoves you? He says, you have promised in the Bhagavad Gita that you will lift me. teṣāṁ ahaṁ samudhārtha mṛtyu-saṁsāre sāgare rādhā So, Krishna says, I will lift you out of the ocean of material existence and I will do it soon. bhavāmi na jīrādhā pārtha, quickly I will do it.
mayy āveṣita cetasāṁ So, normally when we offer prayers, broadly, prayers come of two categories. There are scriptural prayers and there are personal prayers. So, scriptural prayers means, the Śrīla Kāspuṭa’s prayers are there.
There are Bhishma’s prayers. There are prayers in scripture which we can offer. Personal is based on our particular need we can offer prayers.
Now, if our prayers are only personal, then sometimes they get too sentimental. Because, we may be carried away by our sentiments, we may approach in a somehow sarajic way or whatever. Now, if they are very scriptural, sometimes they can seem too lofty or irrelevant for us.
In the sense that, they may not connect with the concerns of our heart. So, here, what I am trying to do in this book is, that how our prayers can be both scriptural plus personal. That means, we take a scriptural verse, we take a scriptural passage, and then we see how we can have prayers inspired by that.
So, like this now, so in the book that I have, I have taken the first six chapters of the Bhagavad Gita and based on that we have 122 prayers. So, if you can go to page 122, that is 3.26. So, it is discussed based on that way. We don’t have the copy of the book.
We have, I am also going to show it over here. So, you will be able to see it. So, in each book, in each page what I have done, there is a picture of beautiful deity of Krishna from various places all over the world.
And I have taken the Gita verse, I have translated it into English poetry, so that you can get more of an emotional feel for the Gita. And then just below the prayer, there is a one sentence, just below the picture of the deity, there is a one sentence summary of the prayer. So, this is like a devotional affirmation, which we can remember.
So, and then there is a one-page prayer. So, this is just a two-page paragraph of 250 words. And this is where the idea is, from this prayer, from this verse, there is a prayer that is coming over here.
So, this way, there are 122 prayers and chapters, various different means. When our desires grow wildly, so, what can we pray? When we feel very lonely or abandoned or misunderstood, how can we pray? When we feel very emotionally dry and empty and disconnected from Krishna, what can we pray? When we feel directionless in life, how can we pray? So, various life situations there are prayers. So, let us begin with, we discussed 3.26 today.
And the topic we will try to address is that, how to share Krishna Consciousness with people who are not very committed. So, one aspect is, a big challenge is when we try to share that with children, as they come to a teenage and they grow up, this is a problem, especially outside India, inside India also, that they want to explore many other things. And at that time, we can’t really force them too much, as they are growing up.
So, what do we do and how can we approach them? That’s what we will try to discuss. So, if you like, you can read after me. My dear Lord, help me to learn how to help others to learn.
So, this is one of my personal favourite prayers also. Especially when I speak to an audience that I don’t know much about. This is my prayer that, if not just I am here to teach, I am here to help them learn.
And then I have to learn how to help them to learn. This is, This is the poetic rendition of Chapter 26. The wise should not disturb the mind of those to worldly work inclined.
Let them act while you gently show the path to truth that they may know. The path to truth that they may know. So, what is Krishna essentially telling over here? That there are, we could say there are two levels of people.
Say, we are at this level. So, where we are spiritually, we are Yuktaha. We are spiritually connected.
So, we are Yuktaha and we are Vidwan. Yukta means spiritually connected, engaged in yoga. We are connected.
And there is, sorry, Yukta is connected and the other is Vidwan. We are wise. So, we have knowledge.
And then there is another level of person. This person is not Yuktaha but Sattaha. Sattaha is attached.
And there is Ajnana. So, Ajnana means, what does it mean? So, he is ignorant. He is not very wise.
So, now we would naturally want person to come from here to here. This is outreach. You want to elevate me.
But sometimes what happens in trying to elevate people, they try to come up, they find it too difficult and they go further away. So, Krishna is saying, Don’t disturb the minds of people. Instead, what should you do? Arrange them, accommodate them in such a way that they can grow gradually.
That means, create a staircase for them. By which they can come up. And different staircases can have different size of steps also.
So, we see that when Srila Prabhupada came to India, Srila Prabhupada’s full time disciples, Srila Prabhupada’s western disciples, were basically broadly in this category. Where they focused primarily on, they just gave up everything and took up Krishna Consciousness. They gave up their homes, they gave up their families, they gave up everything to take up Krishna Consciousness.
And when Prabhupada came to India in the 1970s, it was a big sensation. But still, not many Indians took up Krishna Consciousness. See, Indians appreciated Prabhupada more for his cultural conquests than for his spiritual teachings or his philosophical teachings.
That this Swami went to America and made Americans into devotees. That’s what they appreciated. Swami’s measures of it.
So, what happened? They wanted to affiliate with Prabhupada. But they didn’t want to commit to Prabhupada. I was giving this talk in the UK.
Because we have a similar point. And then one from the audience raised, he said that, in western dating culture it is called I am interested in you but I am not ready to get married. It’s like that.
So, the idea is, people are interested in Prabhupada but they don’t need to become committed disciples. So, for them, Sri Prabhupada created the Life Membership Programme. That you don’t have to become initiated.
Now, many of them are following the aggregate principle because they were born in Indian culture. They are pious. Some of them are not.
But Prabhupada created a pathway for them to stay connected. Now, if you see today, most ISKCON devotees, if you consider congregation, the congregation is not full-time devotees. We have full-time devotees.
We don’t have full-time devotees also. Most of our congregation are full-time devotees. So, they are neither in the category of full-time devotees but they are definitely much much more serious than the Life Members.
So, in one sense, the whole congregation outreach that we are doing, it is uncharted territory. There was no congregation outreach happening when Prabhupada was present on the planet. That means, the idea is, in that time, becoming a devotee meant moving into the temple.
And that means that. Of course, it’s not that there is no precedent. Mahaprabhu himself says, tāne sthitaś tiratāṁ tanuvān manobhir.
You stay where you are and practise bhakti. But in the recent institutional history, what is being done is, we are creating the space. So, these intermediate pathways that, just like saying, jyosye sarva-karmāṇi, jyosye is dovetailed, accommodated.
Sarva-karmāṇi. They may want to do different things in their life but accommodated in such a way, vidvā yuktaḥ samāśh. And that is where our expertise will come in.
So, I will request different participants to read one-one paragraph. Who would like to read the first paragraph? Yes, please. Have a mic or you can read loudly.
My dear Lord, You emphasised that good intention is not a substitute for good intelligence. Even when I wanted to put for others and guide them towards a higher level of consciousness, so that they ultimately connect with You, I need to carefully consider whether such instructions might be destructive for them, even to the point of being destructive. Yes.
So, one of the key things in spiritual path is to know that good intelligence and good intentions are two separate things. See, good intentions, as you said, road to hell is often paved with good intentions. So, we may have the intention to help somebody grow in bhakti.
And, at the same time, what is the effect of a good intention? That we have to be careful. It’s like, what happens sometimes is that everybody needs a bit of pushing. Pushing is required.
But the thing is, when we push people too much, instead of pushing them towards Krishna, we end up pushing them away too much. So, what is happening is that when we are trying to share, so on one side is, so on one side is good intention. So, good intention is that we want to help them rise.
We want to raise others. Our good intention is we want to help others, we want to raise others. But good intelligence is to be able to observe and assess.
Observe the effect. So, phalena parichyayate, as Prabhupada would often say that, what is the effect of what I am doing? Is my good intention leading to something good? Or is it leading to something counterproductive? So, see, in our first generation, we have had many spectacular successes. The very fact that the Krishna consciousness movement survived and flourished after the first generation is itself remarkable.
There are many many religious and spiritual organisations across the world, but no spiritual organisation in the history of the world had as much distance between the founder and the first generation as Prabhupada and his disciples had. When Prabhupada departed from the world, the senior most devotee at that time was 37 years old. He was a senior most devotee and they became spiritual masters and sanyasis and gurus at that time.
So, it was, in terms of age, in terms of experience, in terms of culture, in terms of education, in terms of maturity, there was a huge gap. And, it was natural that there was going to come a moment of disruption because of that. So, the fact that he has survived and flourished, Prabhupada built 100 temples, now we have almost 700 temples across the world, so it’s definitely a big success.
Still, there have been many growth lessons for us. And, one of the things in that is our children. That, almost very very few children of our first generation years, our first generation devotees, have become devotees.
Now, there are many reasons for that and I’ll go into that in a little bit. But, what happened is that parenting is a serious responsibility. And, to some extent, it was almost as if in the first generation, because devotees go full time to the temple, devotees sort of assume that the process of Krishna consciousness will make children to devotees.
Children come to the temple, children go to gurukuls, children come to satsang, they’ll become devotees. But, it didn’t work out like that. Krishna also doesn’t expect it to work out like that.
Everybody has free will and everybody is going to act accordingly. So, I was just, in America, I met one devotee, you can say he’s a devotee, but he’s not a ISKCON devotee. He’s born in ISKCON, born in ISKCON family.
He calls himself an ISKCON alumni. So, he told me that, my most, his parents were devotees, Prabhupada’s disciples. He says, my most prominent memory of my childhood is my parents’ constant disappointment that I was not the reincarnation of Prahlad Maharaj.
So, the thing is that, we expected our children, now actually as parents, if we have found something beneficial, we want to give it to our children. But, what happened was that, that expectation sometimes became too much. And, the children, they felt that, we just did not get a life.
We did not get to experience life. That’s it. Now, we can say that, I don’t want you to make the bad choices that I made.
I want you to make the best choices. That is true. But still, everybody has free will and, naturally, they want to explore the free will.
So, in the second generation, relatively, of course, the world is still out, that our second generation is growing, but, we are putting a lot of effort. A lot, but a good amount of effort is being put. And, what can we do to ensure that our children also grow up in our faith? So, across the world, you know, in general, there is a, those communities that live separate from the world, have the maximum chance of retaining their children.
So, among the Christians, there is a very conservative Christian group called the Amish. So, these Amish people, they are like a cultural curiosity in America. They live in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania there.
Pennsylvania, they are there. Philadelphia. So, they don’t use technology.
They farm. And, they live a traditional life. So, among all the communities in the world, they have the maximum retention of their children.
But, they also have a, they have a system called Rumshtrang. So, they don’t give, they don’t baptise the children, they call it, in their childhood. There are some Christian groups who do that.
But, their idea is, when they come to teenage, they call it Rumshtrang, you go out and explore the world. So, there, they will wear traditional clothes when they are there. When you go out to cities, you explore the world.
And, after, they may explore for six months, one year, one year, two years. Now, a few of them go away. But, almost 80, 90% of the children come back.
And, they are growing. Now, the second highest rate, is amongst, conservative Muslims. But, that, they are successful, in Islamic countries.
Those same Muslims, they agree to the rest. So, the more isolated you live, the more likely, you are to retain your children. But, the point is, that, if people are living isolated, then, they cannot really influence the world much.
See, we are a outreach mission. We are a preaching mission. So, the Amish, who generally do not vote in elections.
So, recently, in the recent elections, the Republicans, they pressure the Amish. So, American Muslims, they are over-regulated. So, they said that, unless the milk is pasteurised, it won’t be healthy.
So, now, the Amish, they raise cows, and they have milk. And, they were told that, the milk which you are only raising, unless you send it to a factory to pasteurise it, you cannot drink it. And, so, Trump’s party, they said, these people are taking away your milk.
And, that’s why the Amish first time voted in mass elections. And, so, my point is that, they didn’t have much political influence. They did not have much social influence.
So, now, Isha Prabhupada did not want us to live in isolation. He did have gurukuls, and he did have palm communities. He wanted them to happen.
But, his primary focus was on, that, he was asked, where is the best place for a temple? He said, temple is like a hospital. So, which is the best place for a hospital? Where there are maximum patients. So, materialism is most rampant in the cities.
And, therefore, our temple should be in the cities. So, now, the question comes, how to keep our children protected without being isolated. Isolated means, we have no connection with the world at all.
Protected means, there is a connection with the world, but they are not affected by the world. So, what happened is, in the first generation, we also went to some extent towards being isolated. But, we don’t have a structure to keep people isolated forever.
The Amish people, I am not recommending them, but I am just comparing over here. What I am saying is, that they have a whole organisation in alternate world. And, people can, they don’t have any monks over there, they don’t have nuns over there.
So, people can marry within their community, they can have their life, they can grow. So, now, for us, it’s not that easy. That, we don’t live in an alternate world.
We live in the mainstream society. Of course, we have our worldview, we have a different way of living. But, we need to integrate with the rest of the world also.
Or, if not integrate, interact with the rest of the world. So, if you try to isolate too much, and then, eventually, there has to be some amount of engagement in the world. That time, I was deprived, I don’t know anything, what happens in the world.
I don’t know about, from their perspective, culture means, what are the movies, what are the video games, what are the social media influencers, this, that. I don’t know any of these things. I feel like I am an illiterate person.
So, people feel very left out. how do we, we may have good intentions, but the good intentions, are not complemented with good intelligence. Then, it can vampire, it can be disruptive.
So, let’s move on to the next paragraph. Who would like to read? I can read. Okay, please.
I can read. When I want to, help others rise, and even when they want to rise, I may expect, demand, or insist, that they progress faster than they are capable of. Consequently, they may slip, and fall.
Falling further, than where they originally were. That is, they may become, alienated from spirituality, thinking it to be impractical, or impossible, or alienated from spiritualists, thinking them to be too critical or pushy. Yes.
So, again the theme is, help me to learn, how to help others to learn. So, the idea is, when we push people, they may become alienated. They may become, they may become sometimes, either apathetic, or, antagonistic.
So, in America, currently the fastest growing religious group, is called nuns. Not N-U-N, nuns. Nuns are also growing.
In fact, in America, nuns are growing more than monks. What happens is, many women are frustrated with their relationships, because of divorces, and separation. So, the Catholic Church accepts nuns.
So, generally what is happening that, the number of nuns is increasing, and the number of monks is not increasing. So, actually, in many Catholic Churches in America now, they are recruiting Indian monks, to go and become, leaders in, the American Churches. Because the Catholic Churches have the idea that, the leaders should only be monks.
So, the nuns are increasing, but this is, nuns. N-O-N-E-S, nuns. And nuns means what? If people ask, what religious group do you belong to? Then, nun.
So, they are also called as, not atheists, but they call themselves as, apathists. You know apathy? I don’t care. So, apathists.
So, lot of people, say they belong to this group. So, now, what happens is, people say that, you religious people, you have your beliefs about the other world, you have your beliefs about invisible things. And because of your beliefs about the invisible things, you create visible fights in this world.
Isn’t it? Religious sectarianism is there, fanaticism is there, extremism is there. So, people just get, kind of affected. So, many people become apathists.
Now, some people go beyond that, they become antagonistic, they become, they become against, they become atheists also. But, it’s more like, there is a little bit of, I don’t want to get involved in all these things. That’s what comes up.
So, at this point, these people, they are not, against, God per se. They are not necessarily against, religion also. What they are against is, the kind of, religion, or the conception of God, that they have experienced.
And, that’s what, they are against. So, basically, Sri Krishna Prabhupada, in the first chapter, first verse, he explains, what is realisation. Or rather he says, what does it mean to, preach with realisation.
So, he says that, this is the message of scripture, and this is the, needs of the audience. So, the needs of the audience, and, the message of scripture. So, he says, we need to find out, the intersection between the two.
That, where does it intersect. That essentially, is realisation. Let’s see if I can quickly find this once.
So, this is one of the most important aspects of, yeah. Do you know how to create this? Personal realisation. Personal realisation, does not mean that, one should not, one should out of vanity, attempt to show, one’s own loving, by trying to surpass, the previous Acharya.
He must have, full confidence, in the previous Acharya, and at the same time, he must realise, the subject matter, so nicely, that he can present the matter, for the particular circumstances, in a suitable manner. Yes. So, the original purpose, could have been.
The original purpose of the text, must be maintained. No, obscure meaning, should be spewed out of it. Yet, it should be presented, in an interesting manner, for the understanding, of the audience.
This is called realisation. Yes. This is called realisation, that it should be presented, in a way, that is interesting, for the understanding, of the audience.
So, we could say here, the audience, has certainly, certain needs. The audience, has certain interests. So, the audience, has certain concerns.
The audience, has certain, expectations. As we use the word, nice. To be nice to others, to know their needs, interests, concerns, and expectations.
So, the idea is that, what we are presenting, scripture, has many teachings. And, there are many teachings, that are important. But, what is, going to be of interest, what is going to address, some needs, of the audience? Now, that is what, we need to be considering.
If we are not, considering that, then, we may speak, but it will not be, relevant. We will not find it, what is the point of it? Oh, I was just in Cambridge, last, three days ago, I spoke at, University of Cambridge. So there, the topic was, if I go and say, okay, I will speak about, the different, Advaita, Vedanta, Siddha, Vedas.
Unless, it is a religious studies, department over there, who are studying specifically, Hindu, Hindu personal studies, or something like that. This is not going to be, relevant for them. So there, generally, we speak about topics, which are, of relevant.
So, one of the topics, we have find, among youth, very relevant is, dealing with insecurity. Everybody, from one side, we may find that, our children are, being difficult. They do not listen to us, they do this thing, they do that thing, they do that thing.
Yes, it is true that, children are being difficult. But also, bigger truth is that, children are, in difficulty. Then, what is the difference? They are being difficult means, that they are not listening to me.
But they are being, they are in difficulty. What that means is that, actually, today’s age, now it across, it applies to some extent, to all ages, but actually, growing up, in today’s world, is extremely difficult. Being a parent today, is very difficult.
But, being a child, today’s world, is much more difficult. You may say that, what is, you know, I lived in, maybe, I was not in financially, good situation, I am not comfortable. I have provided so many comforts for you.
So, what is the difficulty? And, that’s one way of looking at it. It is valid to do that. But, the thing is, yes, we may have provided, as you know, more physical comforts, and physical needs, better than what we had.
But, at the level of the mind, today’s culture, overwhelms people with options. And, one of the biggest losses, that has happened with, with cultural changes that have happened is that, that, there is no, like a, agreed upon structure, for life. There is no, agreed upon structure, for life.
And, how are we supposed to live? They can say, now, in India, we may not want our children to watch, say, if they are watching some, entertainment, or whatever. So, there are some, say, family friendly entertainment, there is some adult entertainment. We don’t want them to, watch stuff like that.
So, in India, maybe some, inappropriate entertainment, would be a man and a woman kissing. In the West, inappropriate entertainment, is, man and man kissing. Or, woman and woman kissing.
There are practically, no movies, without some, LGBTQ things, over there. And, the point is, cultural boundaries are different, but boundaries are there, which the culture, violates. And, that becomes a problem, how to deal with it.
So, they sell their Netflix, Christians have created, they have an alternative called, they call it, Pureflix, Godflix, and the movies, they are not of great quality, but they are trying to do that. And, also, we had created this, we had Dasima, Mahavatar, Dasima movie. So, creating things like that.
So, that’s what I’ll try to address now. See, my point I’m making is, that, that, today, there are so many options, and what happens, the culture that, is there, the culture does not give you, any understanding of, what is the right option. They say, when we grew up, the most idea was that, your parents are there, and, you know, you raise a family, you’re responsible, you take care of things, and there’s some amount of, spirituality is there.
So, there was a roadmap for life, at least to some extent, was there. But, as the culture, became more and more, destructured, there is no roadmap for life. And, they say, this is, what I have provided you, is a roadmap.
Because, that’s what we feel for our children. And, they say, no, that is your roadmap. I don’t want that, to be my roadmap.
There are so many, different ways of living. So, it’s like, there are so many options. And, the options can be overwhelming.
And, that’s why, although we say, they are difficult, means, they don’t listen. But, their in-difficulty means, that actually, they are confused. That they just, don’t know, what is the right thing.
And, we say, Krishnamoorthi is the right thing. Yes, that’s, we, have gone through a life journey, we have got some realisations, we have got some convictions. But, they are at the start of their life journey.
So, that’s why, this changing, this vision, when somebody is, not listening to us, why are you being so difficult? Yes, they will be difficult, but they are also, in-difficulty. They are in-difficult. This is, a very important, shift of vision, that can help us a lot, in moving forward.
So, when they are in-difficulty, then how can, our, Krishna Consciousness, offer them some help, or how can we, as Krishna Conscious, be able to offer them some help? Yes. Can you give me, my Lord, a holistic vision, for giving guidance, so that, I seek to understand, exactly, where they are, and how you have, acted in their lives, to bring them, to that point. When I act, with such a selfish attitude, I won’t try, to force others, into my plan, for their growth.
Rather, I will try to, discern, what your plan, for their growth is, and would like, guidance for them, in a way that, is doable, and sustainable, for them. Yes. So, the idea is that, it is not just that, we can’t say, if we are trying to share, Krishna-bhakti, they are our children, they are not just, our children, they are Krishna’s children, and it is not that, we are giving, Krishna to them, Krishna is already, in their hearts, and Krishna has been, with them, for far longer than, what we have been with them, and Krishna has a plan, for their life.
So, there are different visions, of parenting. One of the, common metaphors, that is used for parenting is, children, are like, clay. Children are like clay, that’s the metaphor, that is often used.
Now, the idea of clay, is that, you can shape it, whichever way you want. Now, children are like clay, this is used, in one sense, both by conservatives, and by liberals. The conservatives, use it to say that, the, that the parents, or the authorities, can shape, others the way they want.
So, what happened was, the Marxists, for example, they wanted to get the children. We will make all the children, into Marxist ideologues. The idea is that, if they are like clay, somebody outside, can shape it.
So, so for example, in hierarchies, the parents, will shape the children. Now, state, the country, will shape the children. But the liberals, they say that, we are like clay, and, we can define, ourselves, whoever we are, however we are.
So, the idea is that, there is no inherent, human nature. We can define ourselves, as we are. I was talking to somebody, from Canada, he said, he is planning to, come back to India.
So, he said, he had a daughter, he had a son, who was likely, who seemed, to not be very well, in school. So, the school, they had a therapist. And, he was taking, he was taking the therapist.
And, after the first, two, three questions, the question, that the therapist asked him, was, do you think, you are actually a girl? And, is your depression, because, people, society, is mistaking you, to be a boy. Now, this gender change, is a big trend, in the west. And, in Canada, at least, in a couple of states, the kids, can change their gender, means actually, they can take, not just take hormones, but do surgery, without even, informing their parents.
And, it’s crazy, the level of, their idea is that, the parents are old fashioned, the parents are dogmatic, the children have their rights. So, that was one of the reasons, why Trump was so worried, that they are going to steal your children. So, in America, that fever, has gone down substantially.
But, the idea is that, you don’t have, a given nature at all. You can define, who you are. So, if you are a man, and you want to think, you are a woman, you are a woman.
And, the world has to accept, that you are a woman. So, it happened that, in America, in sports, in, there were some, some men, there was one swimmer, who was like, a very mediocre swimmer, among males. And, he, he became a female.
And, he started winning, all the women’s competitions. So, now, actually, this was happening, in swimming, it was happening, in athletics. But, then the problem came.
So, now, they said, oh, we should not criticise, these, these are their rights, LGBTQ rights, we should not criticise them. If you criticise, then you are, you have a transphobia. You have phobic, phobic towards transgenders.
But, then eventually, it came, that, it started happening, in contact sports. Like, if there is a female boxer, and there is a man, who is like a woman, in contact sports, it will be disastrous. Not that they will be defeated, but they will be terribly injured.
So, that’s where the stop came, seriously. So, you know, the one out there, is quite crazy, actually. So, the liberals also had the idea, so, actually, the U.S. Supreme Court, said that, it is the individual, individual right, to define, what is the conception of life, for you.
Okay, to some extent. But, it’s that, if you are biologically a boy, you cannot call yourself a girl. So, both liberals and conservatives, had the idea that, we are like clay, and, either other society’s intentions, or individual intentions.
It completely reached in India. But then, Bhagavad Gita’s teaching, is actually, that children are like seeds. They are not like clay.
What do I mean by seeds? That we all, based on our past karma, have a particular, guna-karma vibhagash. That guna-karma, you know, what is it? It’s in the varna of our parents. But, each child is like a seed.
So, some children, are like mango seeds. Some children, are like, apple seeds. Some children, are like orange seeds.
Now, no matter how much we try, the orange seed, is not going to become a mango. And a mango seed, is not going to become orange. So, apparently, now, there are some universal principles, that, all seeds, they need protection, they need cultivation, they need nutrition, so they’ll grow.
So, in that sense, there are some principles, apparently, that are universal. Like gardening, there are universal principles. But, in gardening, you know, what is our expectation of the seed? That has to be, what is our expectation of the gardening? That is based, not on what we want, but on what seed is there.
So, that’s why, when we are trying to serve Krishna, not to the others, or, in general, trying to help our children grow up, is that, we help me to learn, how to help others to learn. So, O Krishna, what kind of seed, have you given me? What kind of seed is my child? So, understanding the children, is also important. Rather than simply telling them, why are you not listening to me? Why are you not obeying me? You know, we understand that.
So, they are like seeds, and everybody, why am I talking about the seeds right now? If I go back to realisation, this definition of realisation, I said that, it is to understand our interests, understand the message of scripture, and to understand the interests of others. And then, how we can address those interests. So, that’s the last point I mentioned.
So, we want to help them grow, in a way that is doable, and sustainable for them. Would that be the last one? Bless me, O Lord, with this vision of giving guidance, as a form of service, wherein, I first learn, how to help others to learn. Yes.
I first learn, how to help others to learn. So, now, this is what I am going to speak, it’s a separate class, but I will just introduce this concept over here. That, if we consider people come to Krishna, now, people may come to Krishna, through different pathways, with different interests, different needs, different expectations.
So, broadly, say, some people may come, out of cultural needs. So, especially in India, sorry, Indians abroad, when they come to Krishna Consciousness, it is because, they want to pass on their culture to their children. When they went to America, they went for financial leader lands, they wanted to earn more money, and initially, they want to enjoy life, but, one thing about Indians is that, they take parenting quite seriously.
My children, they say, the parents take it too seriously. But, they take it seriously. So, then, okay, I may want to have all my fun and everything, but, after I have children, I have to take care of my children.
And how do I pass on my, our culture’s values to our children? So, our culture is like our blood. We don’t notice it, till we start losing it. As long as it is flowing inside, we don’t even notice its presence.
But once we start losing it, that’s when we start noticing it. So, for many, many Indians in the West, the, the temple has deities, temple has traditional clothes, temple has kirtans, temple has puja. So, it becomes a place where we can pass on the culture to the children.
So, some people come for cultural needs. Some people come for social needs. Now, social means what? They want to feel at home.
The world is quite a lonely place. That, especially in the past, there were joint families. There were, there were nuclear families.
Now, when the nucleus has split, and then there are electrons and protons, you know, orbiting around in the concrete jungles. So, UK was the first country which officially appointed a ministry for loneliness. A government ministry to deal with loneliness.
It’s a difficult situation. So, people often come to religious or spiritual organisations because they want a sense of community. They want a sense of enormity.
So, now, when somebody, now these two are very different set of expectations. When somebody is coming from a cultural perspective, for them, okay, what are the cultural practises going on over here? You know, how are the, say, for example, the rituals being done? How is a lady being worshipped? When somebody is coming from a social perspective, for them, if I come to the temple, does someone talk to me? Does someone smile at me? Does somebody ask about me? Do people really care about me? If I come to the temple and the person, somebody asks, your tilak is twisted. Can’t you wear tilak properly? So, they have come for a sense of belonging.
What they get instead is a sense of judgement. So, it’s a expectation mismatch. So, if the person guiding them has, is focused on the cultural aspect and the person coming is from a social aspect, then what happens? The things don’t work.
It can be other way around also. I was at one temple and one devotee came and said, my whole chappal was spoilt. He said, I said, what happened? He said, you know, over the temple authorities allowed that new devotee to do tulsi aarti.
And when the tulsi aarti is removed, we are seven times removed, nine times. I said, why were you counting? So, what happened is, now the temple is destroyed and we want to engage new people. You also feel that you are part of a community and you can also engage in the worship.
So, the idea was, socially you want to explain themselves. But for somebody whose culture is very important, you did this wrong. So, there is social, then there is cultural.
Then there is also philosophical. So, when it’s philosophical, people have questions and they want answers to those questions. So, those who come from this philosophical perspective, for them, the most important thing is the class.
Like, who is giving the class, how well organised is the class and what is the substance of the class. For many people, from the cultural perspective, they may also go for katha. But for them, it is also more like a pious form of entertainment.
They don’t really want serious intellectual work. So, they are not coming for education purposes. So, some people who come from a philosophical perspective, what they need is a serious content of classes.
And if that is not there, they think, what is the point of coming over here? So, most people who come from an Indian perspective, they come from the cultural perspective. Most people who come from the West, they come from a philosophical perspective. Because for them, the culture is actually very different, very unfamiliar.
So, the cultural perspective is actually a big demand for them. But they have certain questions and their own culture, their own tradition didn’t answer those questions. So, the philosophical perspective is there.
The third is quite often the psychological perspective. Now, psychological and social are similar. But psychological is when people want peace of mind.
I am agitated, I am very anxious, I am very irritated, I want peace. Now, when they want peace of mind, then the atmosphere has to be as peaceful, has to be tranquil, has to be serene. So, actually Prabhupada was the first person who introduced Kirtan to the West.
Before that, some people had done, but in a mass way, Prabhupada introduced Kirtan. But in the mainstream Kirtan world, actually, ISKCON has been left far behind. And one of the reasons, many reasons, of course, many ISKCON people are also very influential in Kirtan, but as compared to the mainstream ISKCON, mainstream world of Kirtans, what has happened is, for many people, Kirtan, they want to experience it as meditation.
There are Kirtan concerts and people go for those Kirtan concerts when they pay. And, you know, in those Kirtans, people are not so participative. But the idea is, that the Kirtan is very sweet, very peaceful, very gentle music.
What happens, our Kirtans are often not peaceful, they are ecstatic. And, there is a space for that also, because they have huge wampus. And, for those who like that kind of people, that’s nice, there is a spiritual energy in that.
But if somebody is coming for getting peace, that will not work. So, you know, that particular demographic is a large demographic. After this 9-11 had happened, 9-11 was destroyed in America.
So, the devotees, that, they, in order to provide spiritual out, they started going out and make Kirtans in New York. And, people were just frowning and glaring at them. You know, what are people doing? This is the biggest terrorist attack, disaster, you are dancing on the streets.
You know, this terror attack happens in Delhi and then you go out and make Kirtans. Now, maybe in India it might work. But people, they just sit.
So, then the devotees completely shifted back. They, at the public squares, they had this, they had this, they formed meditation circles. And they had small, 27 mala beads and they had the Hare Krishna mantra printed out.
He says, you know, this is, this is meditation for, for inner peace, meditation for world peace. And, sometimes, our chanting that we do, it’s like a, it’s like, what is that? Nitanjali Express. It’s like, this is rushing out.
Now, once somebody has developed a habit for chanting, you can find some absorption in that also. But, for most new people, that, that super fast pace of chanting seems more like meeting a target than actually meditating. Meeting a target of counting a particular number of rounds.
So, that explosion, Hare Ram, Hare Ram, Ram, Ram, Hare Ram. And, I just recently met one devotee who was there at that time. He said, you know, people, people were in tears at that time.
He said, I felt so calm, I felt so peaceful, I felt the presence of God. So, the idea is that, if somebody is coming from a psychological perspective, and then, we give them a cultural kirtan, like loud and exciting, that’s not going to work. So, different people have different needs.
At least four are not necessarily exhaustive. They are just indigent. There can be different reasons why people come.
So, why am I talking about this from the perspective of parenting and children? I started by talking about how we might expect people to take a huge leap. And, they may not take the huge leap. So, we need to create steps for them, by which they can move forward.
See, if somebody has, in one sense, come to the core of Krishna consciousness, then all four are included for them. They practise the culture, they have good relationship with devotees, they understand the philosophy, and they are also peaceful in their own behaviour, they help others experience peace. They are peaceful, they help others to be peaceful.
They don’t disturb others, they are not disturbed by others. So, a very serious devotee will actually experience Krishna by which all these needs will be addressed. But, for some people, they may not be ready for all these things.
So, then, they may take up only one aspect, and that is ok. That, they may not necessarily be serious devotees in the way we would like them to be, but, they can still be connected with Krishna. There was one devotee friend of mine, he is a scholar, he is writing a book about the life of Prabhupada’s grandson.
And, of course, it is very difficult to do research for that right now, because most of the people left. So, he told me that, you know that story, some postman told Prabhupada that, you know, why are you writing magazines, people throw magazines, write books. So, he told me that, 200 people came and claimed, it was my grandfather who told Prabhupada that.
So, people want to take credit for that. But, the thing is, so, he was telling me that, if Prabhupada had been a risconed devotee, he would have been criticised for not being a serious devotee. Because, it’s not that Prabhupada was going everyday to Kauriyapuram for the Mohanik programme.
Prabhupada was not necessarily, he was, in 1922, he met his spiritual master for the first time. In 1937, his spiritual master departed. So, in those 15 years, he met his spiritual master about a dozen times.
But, Prabhupada’s heart was completely devoted to in his own time. So, the point I’m making is that, sometimes people may not fit our expectation of how a devotee should. And still, they may do wonderful things for Krishna, Krishna may do wonderful things to them.
We don’t know that. So, that’s why, when we are trying to share Krishna Bhakti, we can see what is their interest. Now, what is their interest and can we provide some aspect of Krishna consciousness that addresses their interest.
So, they may not want to take up the full package of Krishna consciousness, but even if they can’t take up the full package, they can take some parts of it and they can stay connected with Krishna. And gradually from there, they will move on. So, in general, this was in the West what I observed, that most devotee kids don’t want to chant 16 rounds.
They don’t want, Japa is very difficult for them, but they love Kirtans. Many of them are very good at music. So, I was in Canada and there was a group of devotee kids over there in Montreal.
They do such nice Kirtans, that they are actually, they were invited, they did a Kirtan, they put it on social media, and other things. So, they were invited by a Hindu temple in Toronto. You kids can come and do Kirtans.
And the Toronto temple, Iskcon temple, you know, we were trying to work with this Hindu temple, they were not giving us any permission to do programmes there. So, it was a big influential temple. So, they themselves invited the devotees.
The devotees actually, the devotee kids are there. So, the devotee kids, they said, we want to show our children, our Hindu children, how Hindu kids are themselves practising Bhakti. Now, from Iskcon’s perspective, they are not practising Bhakti.
But from the Hindu perspective, they are models. Oh, you know, you are not Kartal, you sing so nicely, you know Sanskrit shlokas. So, the thing is that they may not take up the full package, but still they can do a lot with Krishna in some way or another, and they may also have some value that they can offer to the world.
So, I’ll give you two examples and conclude this. There is one devotee from, he was India, from Pune, he was, I was based in Pune until 2007. So, then after that I came to Mumbai and I was travelling mostly.
So, this devotee came to, his parents were counsellors and very serious devotees and the daughter became a very nice devotee and his son was a big disappointment for him. And then, he went to America, he went to a western outreach centre over there and he actually went for college studies and he went for a job over there. So, and there he just took a puff even.
So, I gave him for a long time. So, I asked him, you know, how was your experience different in America? So, he said, when I went to this American western outreach centre, whenever I would go to temple media, the first thing which people would ask me is, how many rounds have you chanted? So, I went to America, nobody asked me that. He said, I just was going to feel so welcome over there, that I was just accepted, not judged.
And, I saw that you all were such nice people and here I saw people from many different backgrounds are coming and young people from culture, not even Indian culture, they are coming and practising bhakti. So, I felt inspired. So, he said that that, in one sense, while he was being pushed, he was being pushed away actually.
Now, devotees will ask him, how was your chanting? They are obviously well-intentioned. But, what happened? Good intentions can have not good effects. So, when there is no pushing like that, he took it on his own terms.
So, there is another devotee, his parents, both of them are not just PhDs, both of them are double PhDs and they are brilliant and their son, he was, I met him when he was around six or seven, eight or nine, they said that this child, when he was small, he was at the age of five, memorised several hundred verses of the Gita. And then, his mother told him that when he was around eight he was a So, then I asked him, when you make these robots for computation, how do you get ideas, what kind of robots will you make? So, he said that most of the times, the robotic research will be funded by Amazon, because Amazon has warehouses and they want to replace humans with robots. So, robots which can bend quickly, pick up the boxes, pack the boxes, carry the boxes.
So, robots with efficient body mechanics and they can have a computer ability. That’s what they are trying to figure out. So, I asked him, do you have, if you come up with new ideas, do people like that? Innovation is of course very sophisticated.
So, then, when I come first time to the east of Kailash, I was quite impressed. So, I told him, what do you think about making a robot of Krishna speaking in the Bhagavad Gita? He said, no, that’s not a good idea. So, he went away.
And then I was talking to his parents and then after five years he came back and said, no, actually, it’s not such a bad idea. Nobody else will think about it. And he said, nowadays there is this whole culture of that multicultural inclusivity that is appreciative for other cultures.
Then, after a week his parents called me and they told me that now he is reading the Bhagavad Gita to find out which verses will sound cool on his robot. So, the thing is that, our children may not fit into our conception of what our devotees should be. But that does not mean that they can have no connection with Krishna.
They may have a connection in their own way. And that’s why, help me to learn how to help others to learn. So, that is the goal we can have.
We are not just teaching our children, we are learning also from our children, how to help others to learn Krishna consciousness. I’ll summarise what I spoke today. Our theme was learning how to help others learn, how to share Krishna consciousness effectively.
And in that, I talked about three main points. The first point was about the difference between intention and intelligence. Just because our intention is good, that does not mean our intelligence is good.
There are two different faculties. We started with the metaphor that we may want somebody to rise, and we want to encourage them to rise, but they may actually go away. So what we need to do is we need to create pathways for them, gradual steps by which they can rise.
I discussed the example of Shri Prabhupada created the enlightenment programme for people to come to, have some connection with Krishna consciousness even if they are not already becoming devotees. So then we discussed about how, when we are trying to share Krishna consciousness with others, that the thing is that different people, when they are practising, that they have, we talk about realisation and understanding the needs of people. What Prabhupada’s realisation means? That it is message of scripture and the interests of the audience.
What is interesting for the audience? So that interest, you can expand it to needs, interests, concerns and expectations, the NICVD. So different people may have different needs. And the third, I discussed many other points, but mainly what we discussed was that when people come to Krishna, there can be different pathways.
There can be the cultural pathway, there can be the social pathway, there can be the philosophical pathway, there can be the psychological pathway. So each pathway will involve some interests, some needs, so some expectations. So even if people can’t take up the full package, so I talked about our children, that rather than thinking that they are being difficult, we see that they are in difficulty, that the life is so complicated nowadays, there are so many options and there is no clear understanding of what is the standard way to do it.
And we discussed how children are conceived of as clay, both by conservatives and by liberals, or by ultra-conservatives and ultra-liberals. Ultra-liberals say that you can define your own gender, you can define your gender and you can define your gender and you can define your gender and you can define your gender and you can define your gender and you