If we really have free will, how does God control everything? – Chaitanya Charan

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Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

Summary

How can we have free will if God controls everything? In this insightful talk, speaker Chaitanya Charan explores the delicate balance between divine orchestration and human agency using wisdom from the Bhagavad Gita and the Mahabharata.

Main Points

• The Upside-Down Bowl Metaphor: Just as wind can move freely within the sky, living beings possess a defined sphere of activity (Kshetra) where they exercise free will, though the boundaries of that field are ultimately set by higher arrangements.

• Cause vs. Effect: God is the ultimate cause of all causes providing the baseline energy, but He is not the cause of every specific effect or bad action; those stem from individual choices and material conditioning.

• Resilient Divine Plans: Even when human beings misuse their free will—such as Duryodhana rejecting peace—Krishna’s overarching plan remains fully operational and can adapt through both human mistakes and obstacles.

• Focus on Duty, Not Fixation: When faced with unreasonable behavior or injustice from others, we should emulate figures like Lord Rama by focusing on our personal duty and righteous actions rather than obsessing over others’ poor choices.

• The Power of Spiritual Anchors: While past conditionings and urges heavily influence human behavior, regular spiritual practice (bhakti) acts as an anchor, helping individuals navigate temptations and regain control of their choices between urges.

• Mistakes Aren’t Fatal: Just as Draupadi’s misplaced morsel of food was transformed by Krishna to resolve a crisis, human mistakes do not derail the divine plan; every setback can be turned into a stepping stone.

Full Transcription

So, let us go to the next one. Sanskrit Chant Hare Hare Hare Rama, Hare Rama Rama Rama, Hare Hare Hare Krishna Grateful to be here. Thank you, Anutama Prabhu, for your kind words.
I think your kind words have placed the responsibility on you to empower me so that I can speak something which will not be a total disappointment after the kind of words that you have spoken. Sometimes you have a movie in which the trailer is very good and the actual movie is a dull. So, the trailer was what you spoke about me and the actual movie is going to be what I am.
So, I hope it is not too much of a disappointment. I seek the blessings of Anutama Prabhu and Rupamini Mataji so that I can speak today. So, I’ll speak today on the topic of if God is in control, do we really have free will? And if we have free will, is God really in control? So, I was asked this question when I was speaking at Ivy League University about a month ago in Stanford more than two months ago.
So, the point is that when we look at the world, there are so many bad things happening. We can see there is war, there is climate change, there is environmental degradation, there is inflation, there is humans who mismanage things in colossal ways. So, we may wonder, is God really in control in such situations? And if he is in control, then are we like puppets? Do we really have any free will? So, why does this question matter so much? Because when we relate with each other, when we are relating with each other, even if we don’t really care much for God, but when we are relating with each other, our greatest hope is that people can change for the better.
And our greatest fear is that people may change for the worse. And if people didn’t have free will, if we didn’t have free will, then all of existence would seem meaningless. And if we say, no, this person has free will, this person did terrible things, then we say, okay, where is God in all this situation? Sometimes some terrorists kill innocent people, sometimes some people just go crazy and take guns and go into schools and start shooting.
Say, where is God in all this? So, I’ll speak on this topic based on this verse from the Bhagavad Gita, which gives a very vivid visual metaphor to illustrate. So, yatha aakashya sthita…oh, the verse is not visible. That’s strange.
Recording in progress. So, this is the verse. Let us try to…I’ll explain the meaning and we’ll recite it once at least and then we’ll discuss it.
yatha aakashya sthitao nityam vayu wind sarvatra go mahan. It is very powerful, mahan, and can go everywhere. The wind can go everywhere, although it is situated in the sky.
vayu sarvatra go mahan tatha similarly sarvani bhutani Similarly, all living beings. tatha sarvani bhutani tatha sarvani bhutani mat sthanitya in me upadharya are situated, are sustained. mat sthanitya upadharya So, Krishna is saying over here if we envision the sky to be like an upside down bowl, then inside the sky the wind is there and the wind can move left, right, up, down, various directions.
So, the movement of the wind is not restricted, but the area of movement of the wind is restricted. Similarly, all living beings are situated in me. What he means is that living beings have their free will and we could envision every one of us is covered by an upside down bowl, like umbrella and within that we can move.
We can move left, right, up, down, but when we hit the limits of that upside down bowl, we can’t do anything. So, this later on in the Upanishads it’s explained in the Gita also it is hinted at. In the Gita it is stated that there is what is called as the Kshetra, the field of activity of every person.
So, right now my Kshetra is that I can control my laptop, but I can’t control that screen. So, we all have certain level of control and within that area of control, we can do what we want, but that area of control is limited. So, this upside down limit, upside down bowl in which we are all situated like our Kshetra.
Say for example, we all may get angry. Now, when a small infant gets angry, the infant can only flail its hands and legs inside the crib. A slightly older child and they get angry, the child may pound hands and legs on the ground.
Older person may take some things and start throwing at them. If a person is a licenced gun owner, that person can go and shoot someone. If that person is the president of America, they can press a nuclear button and the whole country may blow up.
So, everybody has that vice, that impurity of anger, but their domain of control is different and depending on how big is their domain of control, they can cause that much damage. Now, each of these people have their particular small or big domain of control, their Kshetra. But beyond that Kshetra, they can’t do anything.
So, the president of America may be able to blow up one country, but the president of America can’t blow up anything on the moon or on some other planet. And then, when the president of America, their tenure ends and that person is no longer in power, their Kshetra, which is so big, immediately shrinks. That person who commanded the armed forces of the most powerful army in the world, according to some people at least, that person can’t even stop the police from raiding their own house.
So, the Kshetra, the field of control can vary enormously. And while a person has a large Kshetra, that person can do a large number of things. And within those things, when a person is doing something, God does not interfere.
Krishna does not interfere. Krishna says, I am the overseer and I am the permitter. So, some people say that whatever is happening, it is all done by God.
So, how many of you agree with this statement that whatever is happening, everything is done by God? Anyone agrees with this? Okay, everything is done by God. How many of you say that everything that happens is not done by God? It’s difficult to say that, isn’t it? Not done by God, some of you. Okay, let me put another question now.
When, when, say, let’s take a provocative situation to illustrate this point. When, in the Kuru assembly, Draupadi was dragged there to be dishonoured. At that time, Krishna came and Krishna saved Draupadi by offering her unlimited robe.
But, before that, when Dushasan was trying to dishonour and disrobe Draupadi, was it Krishna doing that through Dushasan? What do you think? Yes. So, Krishna allowed it, but it is not Krishna doing it. See, everything, God is the cause of all causes, not the cause of all effects.
What is the difference? God is the cause of all causes. Sarva Karana Karanam. But he is not the cause of all effects.
That means that, if Dushasan wants to do something brutal, the strength that Dushasan has, Dushasan is also a soul, and the soul actually has no control over the body. The control over the body is a result of the arrangement made by the Paramatma in the heart. So, actually, his ability to control his body and use his body to control something externally, that is by Krishna’s arrangement.
That means Krishna is the cause of all causes. The cause of all causes means everything ultimately, the power for it to happen comes from Krishna. But how that power is used, that’s the effect, that is not determined by Krishna.
The Vedanta Sutra gives the example that the rains are the cause of all the vegetation that grows on the earth. Parjanya nanna sambhava as the Bhagavad Gita says. Without rains, no vegetation will grow on the earth.
But the specific vegetation that grows at different places, that is not determined by the rains. That is determined by what has been sown over there. Either consciously by the person who is ploughing the land or taking care of the garden or unconsciously what has just been there as seeds arranged by nature and the weeds are growing over there or random vegetation is growing over there.
So, the rain, without the rain, nothing will grow. But what grows specifically is not determined by the rain. So, the cause of all causes is Krishna, not the cause of all effects.
Everything that happens is not caused by Krishna. It is sanctioned by Krishna. If everything that happens were done by Krishna, then there are two problems with that.
First is that would leave no scope for free will. We would all become like puppets in Krishna’s hand. We are all puppets.
And Krishna is acting through all of us. The problem with that is we are held responsible for our actions. There is karma.
So, when somebody, some bad people do bad things, it is Krishna doing the bad things to those people and then Krishna punishing those people for doing bad things. That would be horrible. That would make God into a devil.
Makes people do bad things and then punishes them for doing bad things. So, it is not that Krishna is doing everything. So, within that Kshetra, within that limit, the domain of the upside down umbrella, that Dushyasan by his, Dushyasan had that Kshetra.
He had that physical prowess. He had that political position by which he could do certain things. And both his physical prowess and his political position was there for some time.
And during that time, he could do what he wanted. But that Kshetra, that upside down umbrella, that was not determined by him. The size of it was not determined by him.
The length for which it survives is not determined by him. And that is why, if somebody becomes proud of their capacity to do things, that pride is in one side a sign of ignorance. We may have capacity to do a lot of things, but that capacity is not in our own hands.
So, the important thing is we do have free will. And what we do with our free will is up to us. So, now if you consider the Mahabharata, another incident in the Mahabharata, what happens is Krishna goes as the peace messenger to the Kuru assembly.
And this is a sometimes we just hear this story, Krishna meant a Shanti Doodh, but it’s actually a very serious gesture. What is being conveyed over here is that say now between Ukraine and Russia war is going on. And then we have some peace negotiations, maybe some general of Russian army and some general of the Ukrainian army, they talk with each other.
Or maybe their minister of defence talk with each other. But, suppose the Ukrainian head of state goes to Russia, personally talk for peace, seek peace. That means that they are very serious.
The power of the person who is going as a peace messenger conveys the seriousness of the peace endeavour. So, Krishna was the most powerful person. And he personally went to seek peace.
And when he went to seek peace, Krishna actually tries earnestly. Krishna uses in traditional Niti Shastra it is described that there are four ways of trying to resolve a dispute. Saam, Daam, Bhed and Tanda.
So, Saam is we both have the same interests. So, how Krishna started that he says, both of you belong to the same dynasty. You share the same ancestors, you share the same lineage.
Why should you fight among each other? Now, each of these points I am making very briefly here. Krishna is very eloquent in his speech over there. Saam.
And then, what happens is after that there is so, he uses them alternately. Then he says, if you do not see your shared interests, do not think you will win. Danda he says.
That Danda he says, what happens is Arjuna has just single handedly defeated your entire army in Virat. And before that Arjuna has defeated the entire army of the Devatas at the Khandava. And an army that had defeated the Devatas, the Nivat Kavachas Arjuna has single handedly defeated that.
So, you have no chance of winning. If you fight against the Pandavas, you will be destroyed. And then, Krishna uses Bhed.
Bhed he says is actually, initially Krishna is speaking to Dhritarashtra. And, because Dhritarashtra is the king. And he is speaking to Dhritarashtra, at that time Dhritarashtra says, he says, you don’t have to convince me.
I am convinced. It is my son, Duryodhana, he doesn’t listen to me. So, then Krishna turns to Duryodhana and starts speaking to him.
So, this is the situation is, Dhritarashtra was on the throne, but actually, Duryodhana had the power. So, you know, those of you who know a little bit about Indian politics, before the current Indian government, the situation was like that. There was one person in the minister’s chair and another person in power.
So, what happened was that Krishna spoke to Duryodhana and then finally Krishna could see that Duryodhana was not interested in listening at all. So, Krishna then turned to assembly. All of you Kuru elders, you know what is good for the dynasty.
So, if Duryodhana does not see sense, at least you should see sense. And you should not support Duryodhana for the sake of the Kuru dynasty. And Krishna’s speech was so influential that Duryodhana’s right hand man turned against him.
Who was Duryodhana’s right hand man? His brother. Who is his brother? Dushasan. Dushasan, he said that if Duryodhana doesn’t listen to Keshava in the Mahabharata, the name Krishna is not used that Keshava is used.
If Duryodhana doesn’t listen to Keshava, all of us should tie him up and arrest him and hand him over to Keshava. Duryodhana was infuriated. What happened to you? What are you doing? His speech, that was his gesture glaring at Duryodhana, at Dushasan.
And finally, Duryodhana had one policy when this elaborate negotiation was going on, when things were turning against him, just have one policy. Walk out. Stage a walk out.
Walk out of the assembly. And now, Duryodhana, whatever we may say, he had some good qualities. Once, I was asked to give a seminar in IIM, on the Mahabharata.
But they said, don’t tell us traditional black and white. Tell us little sophisticated things. So, I gave a talk on leadership lessons from Duryodhana.
And the subtitle was, how not to leave. So, whatever we say, actually, Duryodhana had some leadership qualities. He, how many brothers did he have? 99.
And they all followed him. Those of you who have one or two siblings, try to get them to follow you. And see how difficult it is.
Isn’t it? So, he had some ability. And Dushasan had always been following him. So, the 98 other brothers, they were confused.
What to do? You know, we always followed Duryodhana because Dushasan also followed him. When Dushasan and Duryodhana opposed, what to do? Duryodhana walked out. They all looked at each other.
And one by one, they all walked out. And then Dushasan was left all alone. All the Kuruvas said, are you going to walk your talk? Will you arrest Duryodhana and bring him back and tie him up? He looked here, he looked around and he just walked out.
And he knew, Duryodhana had his own favourite area of the palace. He had gone there. And Duryodhana was sitting there.
Duryodhana was a master manipulator. So, he heard Dushasan’s footsteps coming in. Now, he could have got on Dushasan’s case.
How dare you betray me like this? But instead, what he did was, he said to his brothers, this Keshava is a very cunning person. The way he speaks, he can make a fool out of anyone. His speech is very seductive.
And even our dear Dushasan, he was seduced by Krishna’s speech. Isn’t it, Dushasan? And Dushasan was peeking in through the door, thinking I should come in or not. And what Duryodhana did was, he gave Dushasan an opportunity to save face.
He said, no, you didn’t turn against me. This is Krishna’s deceptive speech of him. Yes, yes, yes.
Krishna deceived me. I am not against you. And Dushasan came in.
And this way, Duryodhana won Dushasan back on his side. But what was Krishna doing? I was talking about the four ways of dealing. So, Krishna tried first Saam.
Then he thought Danda. Danda is you will be destroyed if you fight again. Then he had tried Bhed.
And none of these worked. And then finally, again all Duryodhana said, come back to the assembly. He sent a message.
And Duryodhana came back. At that time, Krishna offered the last. What is the last one? Daam.
So, Saam is reconciliation. Similarity of interest. Danda is threat of punishment.
Bhed is creating dissension. And the last is Daam. Daam is offering allurements.
So, he said if you want the kingdom, you keep the kingdom. Give the Pandavas just five villages to rule. And this was a remarkable concession from half the kingdom to just five villages.
And what was Duryodhana’s reply? Does anyone remember? Okay, even I won’t give as much land as needed to put the tip of a needle through. Now you see, as a dialogue, it sounds very great. But you know, in terms of the context, what does it mean? Suppose we invite someone to come for a programme.
And they don’t want to come so they make an excuse. Now they are making an excuse. We know that they are making an excuse.
And they know that we know that they are making an excuse. But still, there is some level of politeness where they are making an excuse. What is that? Hypocrisy is the last respect that wise offers to virtue.
That means that somebody is cunning, somebody is deceptive. But at least they try to appear truthful. So, here the person is trying to make an excuse.
But suppose we invite somebody for a programme. And they say, even if I die, my dead body will never come to your programme. You know, that is not just saying no to the invitation.
That is like kicking the person who is invited out of the door. Get out of here. So, Duryodhana’s reply was like that.
That he says, I will not give you enough land to put even the tip of the needle through. And at that time, Krishna became grave. And he turned towards the assembly.
All of you, O Kuru elders, you have heard the king’s admission of powerlessness before his obstinate son. You have seen for yourself the obstinacy of this foolish Duryodhana. It is for you to decide whether you will let the fate of the Kuru dynasty be determined by someone so foolish.
And again Duryodhana was afraid that Krishna’s words may affect everyone. And then Duryodhana had his emergency plan. What was that? Arrest Krishna.
He had his elite regiment of soldiers. Arrest Keshava right now. And they all charged him.
And they all charged him and Krishna was completely nonchalant. Krishna just stood there and exhibited his Vishvarupa. And the sight was so dazzling, so overwhelming.
It suddenly appeared as if his form had expanded to cover the entire space, all the directions. There were storms in the wind. There were storms in the air.
There was thunder, lightning. The earth seemed to be quaking. And the sight was so overwhelming that everybody just couldn’t keep their eyes open.
They closed their eyes. And some of them swooned. And at that time the soldiers, they just looked and how can we arrest? Just fell back in horror and fear.
And then Dhritarashtra was blind. What’s going on? He is showing his Vishvarupa. Then Dhritarashtra prayed to Krishna.
Can I please see your Vishvarupa? Now Krishna had no reason to show. But again, Krishna gave him that vision, removed his blindness temporarily. So that at least now, after seeing this massive form which no one could fight against, maybe Dhritarashtra would come to his senses and control Duryodhana.
Dhritarashtra saw this form and Krishna displayed his form. But from Dhritarashtra’s expression he could see that he was outstruck by the form but not outstruck enough to be able to give up his attachment to Duryodhana. Then Krishna very nonchalantly just withdrew his form, manifested his normal form and Sattviki was next to him.
He put his hand on Sattviki’s shoulder and walked away. As if nothing seemed to have happened. And Krishna didn’t even speak much.
He just walked away. And then everybody turned to Duryodhana. First of all, trying to arrest a peace messenger that itself was a heinous, outrageous violation of the normal codes of conduct.
But on top of that, his perception had also been foiled. And Duryodhana was stunned initially. But then, what happens is none are so blind as those who refuse to see.
So Duryodhana said, actually, Keshav is just a magician. He showed a form and confused all of us. He showed some magical form and confused all of us.
Actually, if I had some time, I could also do some yoga and get some mystical power. I can also show some forms. No big deal.
He says, when the war happens all this magic is not going to affect us. We will defeat him. So he was completely unfazed.
And then Krishna went back the next morning. And Krishna went back at one level. You can say Krishna had gone on a peace mission and his peace mission failed.
So that raises a serious philosophical question. Can God fail? What do you think? Can God fail? Well, you know, you don’t want to say no, but you can’t say yes, isn’t it? So, actually, one of the names of Vishnu is Satya Sankalpa. Satya Sankalpa means whatever he desires, whatever he resolves, his Sankalpa will become true.
So, here, he came to seek peace and his peace mission failed. So, how is Vishnu Satya Sankalpa? That is actually revealed by Krishna himself earlier. Before the peace mission, the previous night, see, Krishna was a master tactician, but Duryodhana was also a tactician.
So, Duryodhana, you know, in politics, optics is quite important. You may not be a good person, but you have to look a good person. So, what Duryodhana had done was, he was he was actually expert at manipulating people in such a way that they would become devoted to him.
So, when he had palaces built for all the hundred brothers, he arranged for Dushasan’s palace to be bigger and better than his own palace. He said, you know, I love you so much. I may be the eldest, but you get the best.
And then his plan was, he said, when Krishna comes, when Keshav comes, I will shower him with gifts. I will shower him with so many, so much luxury, so much comfort, so much, so many gifts, that he will be overwhelmed. And he will not speak anything against me.
He said, I’ll offer him residence in Dushasan’s palace. Dushasan, you can move in my palace. And when Krishna came, what happened was, he said, Krishna, I have invited, I want you to come in.
I have arranged Dushasan’s palace for you. And please come and I have a feast over there. And Krishna was quite, not cold, but formal.
He said, one person eats at another person’s house for two reasons. Either there is affection between the two of them, or that person is hungry. He said, you have consistently been averse to the Pandavas.
And I am not hungry. So, I will not come to your place. And then he went to the, whose house did he go to? Vidura.
Now this is a very strong statement. Because, Vidura was a step-brother. And Vidura actually didn’t have a palace.
And Vidura was not just a step-brother, a step-brother who was out of favour with, if not the king, at least the king’s son who was actually in power, Viduryodhana. So, Vidura’s residence was not a very opulent residence. But Krishna went there.
And this was, Krishna had arrived the previous evening. And the next morning was going to be the peace message, peace negotiations. So, at that evening, when Vidura was with Krishna, Vidura said, Oh, Krishna, why have you come here? You know that Duryodhana is not going to listen to you.
And my heart trembles at the thought of what will happen in that assembly. Duryodhana had been so insolent that he had actually told his plan. I will seduce Krishna and if I can’t seduce him, then I will arrest him.
And when Bhishma had heard this, he got so angry. He said, what wrong has Keshava done ever to you? He has always been fair to you. And Keshava’s brother has trained you in fighting.
The Yadu dynasty has never been anything but good to you. How can you arrest a member of the Yadu dynasty? I will not even sit here and hear any such obnoxious plans. And he walked out.
So, Bhishma was actually a very level-headed person. Bhishma had not yelled, had not exploded at Duryodhana, even when Duryodhana and his gang had tried to dishonour Draupadi. But when Bhishma exploded like this, at that time, everyone thought that it would have a deterrent effect on Duryodhana.
Duryodhana abandoned his plan. Even Duryodhana looked a little chastened. But Vidura was suspicious.
Vidura was saying, Krishna, Dhritarashtra, Duryodhana has a plan to arrest you. And Vidura said, in that assembly, I have already seen one humiliation, the humiliation of Draupadi. He said, Krishna, if I have to see another humiliation there, I will not be able to live.
If they try to arrest you, I will die. At that time, Krishna replied. He said, I know that Duryodhana is not going to listen to me.
And I have come here only for the sake of the Pandavas. To let the world know that the cause of the war was not the Pandavas. It was the Kauravas.
It was Duryodhana. So, it was this sankalpa which was successful. So, Krishna’s intention at one level was to seek peace.
You know, Krishna is so expert that simultaneously he can be pursuing many things. And it was not that Krishna was simply acting. If you look at Krishna’s speech, Krishna was extremely earnest in seeking peace.
But, by Duryodhana making this impressive seeming dialogue, I will not give even the tip of a line to pass through. Tip of the line is enough for a tip of a needle to go through. What happened was, actually Duryodhana fully willingly played into Krishna’s plan.
What was Krishna’s plan? Let the world see Duryodhana’s defiance. Let the world see Duryodhana’s obstinacy. And therefore, the blame for the war will not come on the Pandavas.
It will come on Duryodhana. So, Krishna’s plan is not always what we may think is Krishna’s plan. So, Krishna’s purpose is never foiled.
But what Krishna’s purpose is, is very difficult for us to know. Bhishma Pitamah himself says this when he is in the arrow bed and he is talking with Yudhishthira. He says that Tasyanvihito Rajan Naveda Jigissaya that nobody can know the plan of the Lord.
And that is why, when some bad people do bad things, I think, is it Krishna’s plan being foiled? What is Krishna doing? What is Krishna thinking? What is Krishna planning? Why is Krishna letting this happen? Actually, there are people who have free will and by their I talk about the Kshetra. That Kshetra, that person may have a certain level of influence. That happens by their personal karma.
The karma that they have got in the past by which they have a certain level of influence. And with that level of influence they can use or abuse that power. And when they abuse that, it may seem that they are throwing a wrench in Krishna’s plan.
Krishna wants to do something good and they are disrupting it. But Krishna’s plan is remarkably resilient. Krishna is remarkably resourceful.
Even if somebody does something bad, something wrong, Krishna can modify his plan and keep moving things forward in the way he wants. It’s like suppose we are using GPS and on GPS, GPS is guiding us, turn right and then we turn left. And what happens? Does GPS say, you disobeyed me, you get lost.
Now, what does GPS do? Immediately reroutes. And it shows, ok, now you go this way. So Krishna is like the ultimate GPS.
So people have the power to take wrong turns. And some people take wrong turns out of ignorance. They just don’t know better.
And some people may take wrong turns because of defiance. They just don’t care for Krishna. But no matter who takes what wrong turns, Krishna can keep his plan operational.
So that’s why all this, we see what happens is, I’ll conclude with two points and then we can have a few questions. That we all have free will and we are responsible for our actions. Others have free will and they are responsible for their actions.
And sometimes, when others misuse their free will, they can create trouble for us. When they create trouble for us, is it that Krishna wants that trouble for us? We don’t know what Krishna wants. Does Krishna want them to act that way? Not necessarily.
But Krishna is allowing them to act that way. And Krishna has his own purpose. So, rather than fixating on why is this person being so unreasonable? Why is this person being so stupid, so foolish, so cruel? Sometimes we just can’t figure that out.
That is, people have their free will and sometimes, because of whatever influence it might be, they may misuse their free will. So at that time, rather than fixating on their actions, we need to see, what is our duty? What is the right thing for us to do? How can we act in the best possible way in that situation? In the Ramayana, when Kaikeyi is influenced by Mantara and she pressures the Dasharatha Maharaj into sending Rama into exile and making Bharata the prince regent. At that time, Lakshmana is furious and Lakshmana wants to lead a coup, a rebellion against Dasharatha.
He says, Ram, you deserve to be the king and I will support you to become the king. He said, how could, this is an elaborate conversation, but I will focus on the main part here. He says that, how could Kaikeyi have done something like this? He said, what harm have you ever done to her? How could she have done like this to you? Lakshmana is furious and Ram says, don’t speak badly about Kaikeyi.
You know how much she loved me. Her love for me was like the flow of the Ganga river. It was pure, it was continuous, it was unstoppable.
So, Dasharatha is still angry. He says, that’s what I can’t understand. How did the Ganga dry up in one night? So, at that time, Ram becomes grave and he says, that’s why when I heard her speak those words, I understood that this must be the working of destiny.
When some reasonable person suddenly starts behaving unreasonably, some person who just starts behaving in a very troublesome way and there seems to be no resolution, then we see that this is the will of destiny. This is the will of destiny. See, Kaikeyi is not considered an evil person.
She is not evil, but she is weak and she is misled by Mantra. So, Ram does not hold it against her. This is the will of destiny.
So, Lakshmana says, it is only cowards who accept injustice by calling it as destiny. Heroes fight against injustice. You should fight for your rights and gain the kingdom.
Ram is still grave and he says, for me, ascending to the throne was not a matter of my right. It was a matter of my duty. He says, it was my father’s will that I ascend the throne and as a service to him, I was doing that.
If now, my service to my father requires me to go to the forest, I will do that. So, what did Lord Ram do? He focused on what was his duty. In this case, what did he do? He said, it is the will of destiny, let me go to the forest.
But, later on, when Sita was abducted, Ram did think, it must be the will of destiny that Sita is abducted. So, maybe I was too attached to my wife. This is the arrangement to detach me from my wife.
So, let her go with Ravan. That would have been a horrendous dereliction of his duty. There, Ram considered, what is my duty? My duty is, as a husband, I have to protect my wife.
And therefore, he arranged an army and fought against her. So, when somebody does something terrible, the point is, instead of simply fixating on their actions, we focus on our responsibility, our duty. And we focus on doing that duty.
Yes, it is not that God, because Krishna has allowed that to happen, therefore, I have to passively accept it. And it is not because Krishna has allowed it to happen, therefore, I have to aggressively go against it. So, in every action that happens, there is that person’s free will and there is Krishna’s plan.
So, we, if that person is reasonable, we try to reconcile and adjust things. But if that person is not reasonable, then we focus on what is Krishna’s plan. What can I do to make things better? How can I act responsibly in this situation? So, that’s the first part.
And the second part which I’ll conclude is that, see, when somebody misuses their free will, they make things worse. I’ll discuss what to do. But what happens if we misuse our free will and we do something terrible? Is it that Krishna wanted us to do that? If we, you know, we speak some harsh words and, you know, we ruin a very important relationship with someone or we succumb to some temptation and it creates a whole chaos in our life, at that time, we can’t say that Krishna wanted that to happen.
It was our weakness. It was our mistake. And at that time, what do we do? At that time, it’s important for us to understand that although our mistake is not God’s plan, God’s plan can work even through our mistake.
Just because I made a mistake does not mean Krishna’s plan will stop working now. Krishna’s plan is still working. Krishna’s plan can work even through our mistakes.
Not just in spite of our mistakes, but even through our mistakes. You know the story of Daksha Patra where, when the Pandavas were in the forest, they wanted to serve the sages and the Brahmins who were there. So they got the dish which was inexhaustible.
And now in our house, if we have some silverware or golden plates, if we serve food in them, if we use them, we clean them very very carefully and then we keep them carefully. In this case, this particular plate was more valuable than any silverware or goldenware for them. And how is it that when Draupadi, everybody finished their meal and Draupadi finished her meal, somehow while cleaning that plate, one little morsel of food remained.
Was it Draupadi’s mistake? Was it one of the people who assisted Draupadi? It was their mistake. But when the sages came over there and asked for food, Durvasa Muni came and all the Pandavas were panicky. What do we do now? And Draupadi is the person who exhibits great presence of mind.
She says, we pray to Krishna. And sometimes what happens is, we pray to Krishna for solving a problem and the problem seems to become worse. So, she is praying to Krishna.
Krishna, please help us in this danger. And Krishna immediately appears over there. He says, Draupadi, I am extremely hungry.
Please give me some food. And Draupadi was aghast. First, I am not able to provide food to all the sages and now Krishna is asking for food.
I can’t provide food to him also. So, sometimes our prayer seems to be making the problem worse. But, what happens is, she says, Krishna, I don’t have any food.
He says, just see, I am hungry. Just see if something is there. And then she goes and she sees, actually there is this little morsel of shark which is left on the plate.
And she comes and says, Krishna, this is all that I have. Give it to me. And Krishna takes that and eats that.
And what happens is, when he eats that food, not only he feels contented, but all the sages, Durvas and thousands of disciples, they all feel so contented, they start belching. And often, this is the focus of the story. That how by satisfying Krishna, everyone is satisfied.
But there is another point in the story that for Draupadi, it might have been a mistake that that particular morsel of food remained on the Rakshaya Batra. But Krishna used that very mistake for his plan. in Krishna’s plan, no mistake is fatal.
No mistake by us is fatal. No misdeed by anyone else is fatal. And that is why, as devotees, we never lose hope.
We never lose hope. Because Krishna’s plan is always operational. Our mistakes, others’ misdeeds, others’ mistakes, our misdeeds, our misdeeds, others’ misdeeds, our mistakes, others’ mistakes, whatever the combination may be.
Through it all, Krishna’s plan is always acting. Now, Krishna’s plan may not be what we think is Krishna’s plan. Krishna’s plan was not coming as a Shanti Doodh to seek peace.
It was to demonstrate to the world, who is the cause of war. And that plan was successful. So, it may appear that a particular plan is not working.
But Krishna’s plan may be bigger than what we think is His plan. And that plan will be working. So, what we do is, whatever free will we have, we try to use it as responsibly as we can.
And if somebody is misusing their free will, we try to make them see sense. If we don’t, we just focus on using our free will properly. If we have made some mistakes in our past, we acknowledge the mistakes, but we don’t beat ourselves up for them.
We don’t become discouraged or devastated by that. How can I act responsibly right now? What is the thing that I can do right now to make things better? And in that way, Krishna Bhakti, Krishna consciousness is actually a consciousness of constant hope and constant energy. Constant hope because even if we have made terrible mistakes, Krishna’s plan is still operational.
And constant energy because each one of us has a place in Krishna’s plan. And we all can play our part in Krishna’s plan and thus, we bring goodness, we bring Bhakti in our heart and we bring goodness in the world around us. It may be in a small capacity, it may be in a big capacity.
That we do not know. But we all can play our part in making ourselves better and making our corner of the world better. Despite our mistakes or others’ mistakes.
And that is the vision. Wherever is Krishna, wherever is Arjuna, there they’ll be victory. When the Bhagavad Gita says at the end, 1878, that does not mean that every battle the Pandavas will win.
Even after that declaration, Arjuna lost Abhimanyu. Bad things did happen. But ultimately, Krishna’s plan was successful.
And thus, the Bhagavad Gita’s mission ends with Arjuna filled with hope, filled with energy. And similarly, we can also be filled with hope. Hope means that what is happening, it is moving towards something good.
Energy means that I can play a part in the moving of things toward good. And that way, we all can have this positivity in our lives by internalising the wisdom of Bhakti to our heads and our hearts. So, I’ll summarise.
I spoke today about the interaction between human will and divine will. If we have free will, does God really control everything? And if God controls everything, do we really have free will? So, I started by talking about if bad people do bad things, is God doing it through them? No. So then, how is it? The vision of the upside-down bowl, that just as the wind moves within the domain of the sky, we all have our Kshetra.
And within that, we have free will. Within that, we can do whatever we want. And Krishna does not interfere.
Now, what if somebody does bad things? What does Krishna do about it? Krishna has his plan and it goes on even through people’s bad choices. In that connection, I talked about Krishna’s peace mission to Hastinapur. And how Krishna was earnest using Saam, Daam, Bhed and Danda.
And because of Duryodhana’s arrogance, he rejected Krishna’s plan. And will Krishna fail? Yes, in one plan, to establish peace, he failed. But in another plan, to show who was the cause of war, Krishna could not have been more successful.
Duryodhana fully played into Krishna’s hands. So, even when Krishna’s plan seems to be foiled, there is some other clan of Krishna which is still working. And with that understanding, how do we see others’ mistakes or others’ misdeeds? We focus not on what they are doing and why they are doing it, if they don’t see sense.
We focus on what is the right thing for us to do. So, Ram did not fixate on Kaikeyi and why she was acting in such a terrible way. He focused on what is my duty in this situation.
And if we ourselves commit some mistakes, we don’t beat ourselves up. We know that our mistakes may not be Krishna’s plan, but Krishna’s plan can work even through our mistakes. Draupadi is leaving a little morsel of food on the Akshaya Patra, was what Krishna used for demonstrating a divine truth and solving a problem.
And thus, if we understand how we always have free will and we always have a part in Krishna’s ever-ongoing plan, then that is a vision which can fill us with hope and energy, irrespective of what people are doing around us, good or bad, bad things people may be doing around us, irrespective of even whatever bad things we ourselves may have done. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
Any comments, Prabhu? Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna. So, you spoke about how Krishna is the cause of all causes, but he is not the effect.
I am trying to understand this. And the Bhagavad Gita says that, you know, living entities are conducted under the three modes of material nature and you know, the three modes of material nature are essentially his external energy. What are the last sentences you said? The three modes of material nature is part of his external energy.
So, how to understand because his external energy is inextricably linked to him. So, how to understand him being not the effect when the effect could be caused by his material energy which is inextricably linked. See, if Krishna is the controller of the modes and everything is done by the modes, then isn’t it that it is Krishna who is doing everything, he is the cause of all effects? Not exactly.
Although it is said that we, that everything is done by the modes, but still Krishna speaks the Bhagavad Gita and tells Arjuna, do this and don’t do this or rather than Krishna, if you do this, this will happen. If you do this, this will happen. These are the choices before you.
These are the consequences. And now you decide what you want to do. If we had no decision making agency at all, then there is no point in Krishna speaking the Bhagavad Gita.
Isn’t it? If everything is done by the modes, then irrespective of whether Krishna speaks the Bhagavad Gita or not, everything will be done by the modes. What is the use of Krishna speaking the Bhagavad Gita? So, it is not that simple. What Krishna means over there is that Krishna says everything is done by the modes.
But as Krishna tells Arjuna, now do as you desire. That’s 1863. 1873, Arjuna says that I will do your will.
So, we do have agency. Now, this is reconciled. So, one extreme is we don’t do anything.
And the other extreme is we do everything. You could say pendulum. In between, in 1816, Krishna says He says, therefore, one who thinks I am the sole doer is an illusion.
We are doers, but we are not the sole doers. I may want to speak right now, but if I suddenly get some sore throat or something, I may want to speak, but I will not be able to speak. So, I am certain I want to speak, that’s how I am able to speak.
So, definitely I am a doer, but I am not the sole doer. And the point is not, oh, you could always say that if we are not the doers of anything, why should we do anything at all? Why should we be responsible? Why should we do our duty? The point is, if I think I am the sole doer of everything, then I will claim their credit for the results. But Krishna is telling Arjuna, there is a bigger plan in operation over here.
And you are playing one part in it. And you play your part responsibly. Don’t think you are going to be the cause of the death of Bhishma and Drona.
They are killed by their own actions. The Kauravas are killed by their own actions. And you can be only an instrument.
But you have to choose whether you want to be an instrument or not. You can be an instrument of Krishna or we can be an instrument of Maya. We can be an instrument in the mode of goodness.
We can be controlled by the mode of goodness. We can be controlled by the mode of passion. We can be controlled by the mode of ignorance.
The choice is up to us. It’s like, when I was in Australia, I was asked this question that if God wants us to choose, make good choices, then why are there so many bad options in the world? So I answered, that’s how it is in every multiple choice exam. There are five options, there is one right and four wrong options.
Now, among these five options, only the person has to choose. But, if the person chooses the wrong option, the person can’t blame the teacher. No, you only gave the wrong option, I chose it.
It is you, it is, I didn’t fail, it is you failed me. They can’t say that. The range of options was provided, but within that range of options, it is the student who chose.
And therefore the student is responsible. So even if we say everything is done by the modes, we do choose which mode to be influenced by. And that’s why we are responsible.
Okay? Thank you. Haribol, you explained that every action or everything is happening by the grace of Lord Krishna. No, I didn’t say that.
I didn’t say that. I said everything is happening by the sanction of the Lord, not the grace of the Lord. When cruel people do cruel things, it is not the grace of the Lord.
We can see that there is the mercy of Krishna somewhere in this action. However, how he could help us to control our free wills. Okay.
How will Krishna help us to control our free will? Right. You mean control means use, use properly. Is that what you mean by you control? I mean free wills, we do whatever we like to do, but there should be a control or grace from him to do such action.
Either it is bad or good. Okay. So we have our free will and we can do whatever we want.
So how can Krishna enable us to control our free will so that we can actually act wisely. I can make good choices. Yes, that is what the whole process of bhakti is.
Bhakti is the process by which Krishna gives us his mercy, his grace. So somebody may have conditionings by which they get, they are pulled in particular directions. So it’s like somebody is in an ocean and suddenly, this is the ocean, this is the vast ocean, the land is over here, they want to go in this direction.
But suddenly a huge wave is coming and that wave is sweeping that person away. And that person, no matter how strong or determined they are, the power of the wave will sweep them away. But if that person can get an anchor and that anchor is heavy and unshakeable and they just hold on to that anchor, then that wave will come, the wave will hit them, but they won’t be swept away by that wave.
So that anchor is the process of bhakti. So the waves will come. Going back to the example of the modes, the modes will hit us.
But in 1426 it says, if you practise bhakti determinately, you can go beyond the modes. The waves will come, but if you hold on to the anchor, then we will not be swept away by the modes. And now the anchor is there, the anchor won’t be swept away.
But it is we who have to take responsibility to hold on to that anchor. And that responsibility to hold on to the anchor is our sadhana bhakti. When we have the opportunity to remember Krishna, to the extent we remember him diligently, to the extent we are attentive when we are here in class, to the extent we are really praying when we are worshipping Krishna.
In all these times, we are holding on to the anchor tightly. We are practising having a firm grip on the anchor. And then when the waves hit us, when the lower modes hit us, when the temptations hit us, we won’t get swept away.
So by using our free will properly during our sadhana to hold on to the anchor of Krishna, we will get the capacity to use our free will properly at other times also. Thank you. How much time do we have? Okay, sure.
Thank you. Thank you Prabhu for a wonderful class. The kind of choices we make in our life or in a given situation or like Duryodhana made the choices of defying towards Krishna and using his free will of area.
Are those not free will or the choices are dominated by the past conditioning or the destiny? Are those not free will what a person is using? Yeah, I got the question. So are our when we make some choices, bad choices, are they not determined by our past karma, past conditionings? Yes and no. Our past conditionings they come as propositions.
Do this, do this, do this. Somebody has always been short tempered and you know we have like all children cry but when some baby all babies cry but when some babies cry it appears that they are going to bring the whole house down. So, there are different children some babies are looking out of the crib and it seems they are thinking when will I take over the house.
It’s like that. So, some people may have a short temper. Some children may have a short temper.
Some adults may have a short temper. And because of that short temper they whenever anybody provokes them they will get angry. Do they have free will? Well, at that time it may be true because of the past conditionings they cannot resist the urges when they come.
So, in that sense it’s true that our past conditionings may have taken away our free will. However, the urges don’t hit us with the same degree of strength all the time. Even if we can’t resist the urges we can persist between the urges.
Even if we can’t resist the urges. Now, when I get angry I just speak terrible words to people. I can’t control that.
Maybe I can’t. I am not saying that everybody can justify their anger and I can’t control. But even if it were true but we are not burning with that same level of anger 24 hours a day.
During the rest of the time what are we doing? Are we speaking kindly? Are we trying to purify ourselves? Are we practising bhakti diligently? If we are doing that that space between the urges is the space where we always have free will. Suppose somebody is an alcoholic and they just cannot give up drinking. But what does it mean? It is not that they are drinking 24 hours a day.
They may say, I get an urge every one hour. Okay, fine. Maybe when the urge comes you can’t stop it.
But between that one hour you have space. So we do always have free will. And between the urges, if we are making healthy choices, if we are trying to do things which will strengthen us, and bhakti practise is the best way to strengthen ourselves, then gradually what will happen is we will start winning over those urges.
The urges may still come but slowly we will start being able to resist them, tolerate them and eventually transcend them. Does that answer your question? Yes. Okay, thank you.
You want to say? Please. No, no, please. I told the story of a man who was a thief.
Many of you know the story but I think it illustrates this point nicely. Prabhupada tells the story of a man who was a thief. And he made a living by stealing things.
So he went on pilgrimage with a bunch of other pilgrims. And at night when everyone went to sleep because he had this strong urge to steal, he took everybody’s bags because he knew it was wrong and he was on a pilgrimage. Instead of keeping the bags he just was moving them from place to place.
So he couldn’t stop himself from the initial urge of stealing the bag but he stopped from the point of taking it for himself. So he’s stealing bags and putting, okay, I stole this bag, I can’t help it but I’ll put it there. Okay, I’m going to steal this bag but I can put it there.
So I think that’s part of it too that when you say the urges come like your example of anger, maybe we get so uncontrollably angry but if we’re consciously trying to control that we bring down, maybe we normally get angry for 10 minutes, if we work at it, it’s 8 minutes or we don’t say the worst words, we say less bad words and then we get to the point maybe we control ourselves, we walk out of the room before we say the bad words and slowly slowly I think that’s also part of our process of bhakti. Thank you, that’s wonderful. There’s one devotee who was telling me that he had a lot of anger issues so he found a solution and he said that every day I’ve decided my anger time.
What he meant was that every day he goes alone in his room for 15 minutes and he just lets out steam, screaming at the top of his voice but he’s not yelling at anyone else. He gets the steam out and he feels calm and then he deals with the issue. He was telling me that as soon as he picks up his phone he has to click the browser and he has to visit some website he just can’t stop it click, click, click, click, click so he said I’ll not do this the first thing when he wakes up he picks up his phone so what he did was he said that he arranged some filter by which he had 25 devotional sites and he had to click among those 25 sites so we may not be able to control the action but we can control the range of the action so that’s what he said the example might seem funny but it is actually a practical example.
We have to do something but we can control the range of what we do Thank you Thank you so much for such a wonderful class and insights I have one question when you are explaining about the Kshetra example that is one kind like limiting or creating some boundaries for us in one sense so Krishna it appears Krishna controls the outcome at a broader level not the minute level it appears like that meaning like you are saying also by giving the free motion by giving the freedom to act in certain limits or boundaries that means he is not making sure that we are doing this particular way versus this particular way but a broader plan is that a right conclusion or any flaws with that conclusion ok now is it that Krishna controls the bigger actions and not the smaller actions that is difficult to say it is at one level Krishna’s control extends everywhere but at another level Krishna lets the material world function according to its laws om poornamadah poornamidam what is the best management the best management is everything seems to be managed and no manager is seen the manager has to constantly keep running around do this do this so Krishna has arranged the world in such a way that the things in this world function according to material cause and effect and is there Krishna’s intervention over there? Krishna can intervene but Krishna has set up the system of material cause and effect and Krishna doesn’t intervene directly in that when the devotees had done their the first Rath Yatra happened in San Francisco in 1968 and the devotees in London decided to do Rath Yatra and when they made they decided to do something bigger so they made a huge chariot but somehow they did not increase the size of the wheels proportionately so when the chariot was going it went for a little distance and then after that the wheels collapsed it’s a PR disaster and then the devotees Guru Das Guru wrote to Prabhupada he said Prabhupada did the Rath collapse because of our poor devotion and Prabhupada said it collapsed because of your poor engineering so it is we don’t have to bring Krishna into every action when there is there is straight forward example for things sorry it’s not straight forward explanation for things we go with the straight forward explanation now Krishna’s plan can act even through that so is Krishna controlling everything or at what level Krishna is controlling well it’s very difficult to discern that rather than trying to Krishna controls everything in the sense that the whole system of cause and effect is arranged by him now does Krishna intervene in particular cause and effects he can but does he have to he doesn’t have to does Krishna make his plan work through this cause effect system yes he does as devotees we focus not so much on how how Krishna is controlling or how much Krishna is controlling we focus on how we can be serving that’s the focus of Prabhupada it is your poor engineering work on it and improve it in the future ok thank you