How to ensure that devotees in a community do all services as required, not just intellectual services?

Transcript:

So, during, it was one to two weeks ago, and we mentioned that everyone should have a service, and not having service is an issue. So, in our temple community, we find that devotees are naturally attracted towards different types of services, and for my sake of understanding and realization, I have categorized them into intellectual and physical services.

And I see there is a phenomenon that sometimes some devotees are naturally enthusiastic about intellectual engagements, such as kirtan, preaching, studying, discussing scriptures, when others take up physically demanding some devotees, like teaching, healing, deity worship, and maintenance and so forth, and so on. But there is sometimes imbalance, like physical services are often undervalued or neglected, leading to disorganization, payouts, some mismanagement, and sometimes even uncleanliness in the temple. And also it leads to unfair distribution of services, like some devotees have a heavy burden of physically demanding services, and I am not saying that intellectual services are not demanding physically as well as intellectually, but I feel there is unfair distribution.

And also, there is also limited opportunities for mutual growth in both categories of services. So I feel how can we, my question is how can we cultivate a more balanced and respectful culture, where all types of services are valued equally, and where devotees are given great opportunities to participate in both physical and intellectual services for the holistic growth and smooth functioning of the temple. Sorry, I just asked Chaitra to make it better, whatever I want to talk.

That’s all I am getting at. So, I don’t know how much I am qualified to answer this question because I have not done many physical services, there are few physical services I can do physically because of the situation. But, I would say that, I don’t know whether kirtan can be called as an intellectual service, but I appreciate the broad classification.

See, there are some services which are more visible and even glamorous. There are some services which will be less visible and less glamorous. Now of course there are some services which are more intellectual, intellectual can be glamorous also.

Now some intellectual services are not very glamorous also. Somebody becomes a preacher who is a crowd puller, that is much more glamorous. But somebody is a preacher who becomes a shastra teacher, you know, that person doesn’t really get new people to come, that person is cultivating devotees.

Then that’s also glamorous to some extent. But it also depends if somebody is a nice krishna katha, then that person is a crowd puller, but somebody is going to siddhanta, teaching bhakti shastra, bhakti vaibhav, there is not so much glamour in that kind of service. But broadly I appreciate the question that there are certain services which people may want to do, devotees may want to do more.

Other services devotees may not want to do. So what do we do in such situations? See there is at one side the individual and the other side is the institution. So now one principle of dharma, the word dharma has many different meanings, but one simple meaning of dharma is that harmonious belonging, that we all belong to the larger roles.

If you are travelling, if you are driving a car on the road, then we belong to the road transport system, we are participating in that. So then we are taking the facility from the road transport system and we have to do something for that road transport system, that is follow the rules, pay the taxes, whatever it is, follow the rules. So dharma essentially is harmonious belonging.

So if you are sitting for this class, if somebody sits right in front, then they are back towards the speaker. So that is just harmonious belonging. Let me disrupt you for a second.

So this harmonious belonging is dharma. So when we belong to an institution, then we also need to learn to belong harmoniously to the institution. Now harmonious belonging has to happen in both ways.

And Krishna uses the word dharma, he uses it both at the individual level and the institutional level. At the individual level Arjuna is asking, vichamiton dharmasamudhichitah, see what is the right thing for me to do? And Krishna says, dharmasamsthapanarthaya sambhavani. At that time he says, I come to establish dharma.

What does that mean? I come to establish the social order. That is virtues, that is guru. So for example, now when we are being a part of the road transport system, say if the road transport system is also just and fair, that means whoever follows the rules, they are allowed to go peacefully.

Those who break the rules, they are pulled over. They are penalized, they are fined or whatever. But if the road transport system, the legal system in this case, the law and order system is personal and partial.

Say people from one community are allowed to go free even if they break the rules. People from other community are pulled over more. Then what happens is the dharma has to work both ways.

The collective has to take care of the individual and the individual has to contribute to the collective. That’s the ideal way to practice dharma. But then it’s a dharmic society with dharmic individuals in the society.

Now from our perspective, what happens is that we are individuals, some of us may also be leaders. Then we have to play our role in contributing to the community. But then we may also be leaders who are upholding the community.

So it depends a lot on the community leaders. If the community leaders show favor or especially praise certain services, then what happens? Everybody wants to be appreciated, recognized. And that’s not a part of the ego.

That’s just a human need. The world is so big and our existence can seem so tiny even within the movement. We all want to be valued.

So whatever is the ethos that is built in the community, then that is what everyone else will want to do. So if some communities are focused very much on say, fundraising for building a temple. And then fundraisers are constantly glorifying.

Or some communities focus only on food distribution. Then food distributors are glorifying. Some communities focus on youth outreach.

Then only those who do youth outreach are glorifying. Others are not. Then what will happen is, it’s like the rewards from the community are coming especially for one group.

And everybody will want to belong to that group. And other services will get neglected. And I’ve seen this happen in almost every community.

Now naturally, the leader of the community or the leaders of the community will have certain inspiration themselves. And they’ll prioritize some things. But the challenge is when prioritizing some things, other things should not be devalued.

All of this is valuable. This is what is most valuable for us right now. So that is one big aspect that what is the dharma of the community that is being followed.

So if all these services aren’t recognized, there will be appropriate forums for recognizing those services. Say sometimes, after the Super Marathon, there may be some, or after fundraising or whatever, there’s a celebration. And there’s a, for everyone, not just for the big fundraisers, but all those who contributed to the service.

Then what happens is everybody feels valued. So that harmonious belonging requires that the harmony also come from top to the bottom. That’s one side.

The other side is from the bottom, the individual towards the institution. Within that, there is a, there is, you call it dharma and then apad dharma. Apad dharma is emergency duty, emergency emergency.

So in general, one principle of foreign ashram is everybody serve according to their nature. Now, of course, what is whose nature? That’s also, it takes some time to figure out. And if we leave it completely to individual, individuals leave it to their mind.

So what is your nature? The mind will say, whatever service you are doing right now, that is not according to the nature. But the mind always keeps us dissatisfied. There will always be some, even in the services that we like to do, there is something which we don’t like.

Isn’t it? So there’s never an ideal situation in the world. Even if somebody likes to preach, but then along with preaching, you have to make sure the logistics are right. I don’t want to arrange the logistics.

I only want to preach. Okay, then you can become a travelling preacher and others will arrange the logistics for you. But then you have to arrange the travelling.

Isn’t it? So now, even in the services, if somebody thinks I’ll only do whatever I like, then that is not the spirit of dharma. What Krishna says to Arjuna is that, sarvaarambhahi doshena dhume naagme. That every endeavour is covered by thought.

So individuals also need to recognize that we cannot just be doing what we like to do with advantage. Because even in what we like to do, there is something which we don’t like to do. And we are belonging to a community.

So sometimes we may need to do things which we may not like to do. So which we may feel is not our nature. So in general, in the initial stages of a community, devotees need to be trained or in the initial stages of spiritual life also, devotees need to be trained to do whatever service they are called to do.

And that way, that mood of service attitude is inculcated. However, as time progresses, each devotee, because we don’t just want devotees to serve, we want devotees to sustain themselves in service. And for that purpose, if a devotee can understand that sabhaav and serve according to sabhaav, then that ethos is healthy.

Because if we are serving according to our nature, we will be self-motivated in that service. Nobody else needs to push us. If somebody likes to study shastra, they will study shastra.

Nobody is watching them, so they will be studying shastra. Somebody likes kirtan, even though nobody is watching them, they will be learning new tools, they will be learning new things, they will be improving their kirtan skills. Somebody likes to keep.

Even if there is no big service, no senior devotee coming to college, they will be honing their skills. So for the purpose of longevity of a devotee, we need to eventually engage devotees in services according to their nature. What they feel naturally drawn to do, whatever they feel inspired, whatever they are talented in doing.

So one system that I have seen work in certain communities is that for the first five years, for the first three years, for the first ten years, whatever, for the first few years, the devotees are trained to do whatever services. And then after some time, by mutual discussion between the authorities and the subordinates, the devotees move towards the service of their own. And that becomes an understanding within the community.

That initially you learn service attitude, and as you grow senior, then you also understand your subhava better. And then you move towards the services that you naturally feel inspired to do. So if that principle is applied fairly, then what happens is everybody accepts that principle.

And then afterwards it moves forward. So then what happens is we give room for individuality. So like I was in Radha Gopinath community, we asked Radha Gopinath Maharaj.

Some devotees are introvert. For them to be together with people is very exhausting. Three, four of us had gone to Radha Gopinath.

Coming for the morning program, it’s like emotionally draining. It’s spiritually energizing, it’s emotionally completely draining. Just meeting people, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna.

So we asked Maharaj. Maharaj said that if that is really the case, you have been practicing bhakti for 15-20 years, you have to assess what gives you spiritual strength. Because if you don’t want to come for the morning program, you know, I trust you.

We won’t go enforcing it for those who are practicing. But if we don’t enforce it for anyone, then nobody will be trained. So there has to be some accommodation for people according to their nature.

Nature is not just permanent. Nature can be made in different ways. So the thing is that, but that cannot be made the norm right from the beginning.

So in the Radha Gopinath temple, for the first 5-10 years, devotees should be very serious about their morning program attendance. For the first 3-4 years, I am talking about the Brahmacharya Ashram family, they do whatever service they are told to do. And as they move forward then, they find themselves according to their Swabhava and they engage accordingly.

So that’s one system that has over collapsed. So the other way is that, some way, the other thing is that, when we are talking about Artha, that was the theme over here. See either the devotee has to find Artha naturally in a particular service.

For some devotees, visible services are overwhelming for them. I would much rather be in the background. That could be humility, but that could also be their nature.

They just naturally like to be in the background and do some services. Some devotees may like to do physical services and that’s great. So either the Artha comes naturally for them or the Artha has to be created.

Created means what? You have to show them the Artha. That what is the Artha over here? This is how this is. So maybe in the classes, those themes are emphasized.

Or there are some other ways in which those devotees are recognized and valued. So when that is taken care of, then it happens that both the individual and the collective. The individual training has to be there and the collective managerial vigilance also has to be there.

So that then, there are different kinds of Artha that will take us towards Paramartha. So it’s like, we can say this is Paramartha and this is Artha. So if people start thinking that there is only one path from here, that say for example, during Prabhupada’s time there was a notion that who distributes for peace, Prabhupada not.

That is true. When Prabhupada was asked, what pleases you the most? He said, Love Krishna. So it is not that there is one path from here to here.

And then everybody, whichever service and only then you can grow towards Krishna. That’s not the understanding. We have had some very moving stories of devotees who were never visible and very prominent features and then the last moment they had some extraordinary experience of Krishna and they were all in the background doing some small services.

So the idea is, it is from wherever you are, wherever we find Artha, from there we can move towards Paramartha. So there is a story of Prabhupada’s in Vrindavan and there was one widow. Prabhupada would see from her window that every morning she would go and pluck flowers even if it was cold and she would go and sometimes she would wake up the Pujari and tell these are the flowers for the ladies.

And Prabhupada said that because she is doing this service, she will go back to Krishna. So it is not, if we create that ethos that every service can actually take you closer to Krishna and that we value you for the service. Naturally based on the phase in which the community is, some services will be glorified more than others.

So generally in the morning program we glorify the book distributions. That itself leads to that book distribution being glorified as a very important service. We don’t mention any other services.

Now other services are also quantified. In some temples they don’t just glorify the book distribution, they also add fundraisers. They say this person raised this much funds, this much funds.

Now okay, that was not the tradition but maybe that is required at that particular time. But then we can’t make a list of all the services that are done throughout the day and make it less glorified. Within the existing system, some services may be glorified.

But then it is important to create the system for appreciating and valuing other services also. So it’s like that Artha has to be going back to this particular diagram. So it is that individual should feel the Artha in that thing and the collective should also create that sense of Artha.

When both happen, then it will move forward very nicely. So I was once a judge with Maharaj and we were talking various things. I said Maharaj, what has given you faith in Krishna Consciousness? We often ask questions, what brought you to Krishna Consciousness? So once I was trying to start a podcast, what kept you in Krishna Consciousness? I am going to talk about all the skeletons in our closet for that.

So I often ask this to devotee at an individual level. So Maharaj was amazing. He said that there is a Pujari in Vrindavan.

He first departed. He said that Pujari whenever I go to Vrindavan, I see him. He is an elderly devotee.

Sometimes he does Pujari service. He is there Sarvanchana. So he said that he has been there for years.

He is not a very well-known devotee. He is not a world-famous devotee. That the devotee has been able to do this service year after year after year is the proof that Krishna Consciousness is there.

That without any recognition by the world that he is getting some satisfaction. That’s why he is doing the service. And now that is a remarkable level of recognition.

There is no recognition in the institutional apparatus. But one particular institution is recognizing this is important. So we need to have that system of Artha.

Infusing Artha or infusing value and meaning to his services. And of course devotees need to be encouraged to see the Artha in the service. So both may happen.

It is possible that the community can be properly taken care of. And so the temples or the organizations needs, the devotees needs and the community needs. Both can be harmonized.

So tension, it needs continuous monitoring and discussion and negotiation. But it is possible.