Why are there so many conflicts among devotees London Pandava Sena youth meeting- Chaitanya Charan

This is an AI-generated transcript and it might not be fully accurate:

Now in the Bhagavad Gita and indeed in the broad scriptural texts there is this concept of detachment and you know in many ways the concept of detachment can be very easily misunderstood and misapplied. So what detachment means and what detachment does not mean that’s what I try to explore. So one reason I took this topic is that when I travel across the world last about 12 years I’ve been traveling extensively across the world and wherever I go one of the common concerns I see within the devotey world is that there are differences among devotees which escalate into conflicts. It could be between individual devotees in the community. Sometimes it be between the devotees and their their guides or the counselors, their mentors. Sometimes it will be congregation devotees and the temple management. Sometimes it is within the management. Sometimes it is among the temple residence and temple management. So I talk with several devotees who are also traveling across the world who are in mediation who are trying to address such conflicts. So sometimes it may feel that the conflicts among devotees are more than the conflicts that we find among people who are not devotees and sometimes it may also feel that the sometime the conflicts among devotees become uh so sometimes more unpleasant. I was once trying to do a mediation between two people and one person said to the other person in a bit of a consiliatory mood I know you are very angry with me. The second person said I’m not angry with you is anger is an expensive emotion and I have concluded you are not worth it. Now if we devalue and dehumanize somebody like that there is practically no chance for reconciliation. And when I talk with that devotey separately how could you speak like this? He says all I want wanted to convey was that I am emotionally no longer invested in this. I’m detached from this. So I told him that was not detachment. So detachment should make us cool, not cold. Detachment should make us cool. Cool means what? Cool means being levelheaded. Cool means not being controlled by our emotions. Be cool. Now I’m not using the cool in the contemporary sense of that’s cool. You know that’s that’s attractive. That’s nice. Whatever it is in the contemporary sense of that that’s cool and that’s hot means the same thing. It’s a the vocabulary is a bit too peculiar. So it’s a hot commodity. It’s selling like hot cakes. So that’s it’s cool. Basically can sometimes mean attractive. But we’re using cool in the philosophical sense that this person is a cool-headed person is is level-headed, calm. No. On the other hand, cold means that we become heartless. So the difference is that when we are cool there is no domination dominance of emotion. We are not just driven by our emotions in making decisions. But when the heartless there is no presence of emotion at all. Now if we have no emotions then we cannot have relationships. We cannot connect with people. we cannot actually do anything constructively and that’s why it’s important that we when we are dealing with each other now normally when we are dealing with devotees this applies what I’m going to talk about applies between when you talk about conflicts between devotees it can be about devotees and family members who are may not be devotees or friends or relatives may who may not be practicing bacti at the same level of seriousness but we may mistake detachment to be coldness and then we can speak or do things which can hurt the other person terribly. So that may not be our intention. Sometimes it may be but rarely generally when two devotees are interacting our purpose is not generally to hurt the other person. We have that that level of culture we understand about vayna praad we don’t want to intentionally hurt someone but sometimes in protecting ourselves from being hurt by the other person. We may act according to a mistaken understanding of detachment and we could end up becoming very cold. So we don’t want to become heartless. Go ahead please. Who would like to read the next paragraph? You my lord describe the vision of the topmost the yogis who are so announced as to leave behind entire world. the forest for exclusive mitigation yet those attach don’t reject others I’m sure from it they become profoundly okay so the point over here is if you look at this this is the chapter six of the Bhagwat Gita so in chapter six does anyone know how many verses are there
sorry 47. Yes. Correct. So among the 47 verses, there’s an interesting sequence that goes in these verses, it’s Krishna is talking from the stage of sadhana to the stage of siddha that from the start of practice to perfection and he goes in this sequence multiple times. For example, from 1 to 9 he talks sad to siddha. Then again from 10 to 15 he talks about the process of rising from sadhan to siddha. Then from 16 to 23 again he talks about rising from sadhan to siddha and then from 24 to 32 he talks about sadhan to siddha and then after that there is so now he’s talking about different levels of realization. So broadly I in this particular sequence this This is the topmost realization. In this topmost real this in this sequence of verses in 28 29 30 28 he talks about Brahman realization 29 he talks about permatma realization 30 he talks about bhagan realization. So the highest conception of spiritual reality highest realization of divinity has come up over there. And then he talk he’s talking about people who have left the world. who leave the world that they live in a forest single-mindedly focusing on spiritual growth and they have generally they are alone but they are it is at the topmost level is that when they don’t think oh I am spiritually advanced everybody else is attached and they are suffering because of their attachments and they’re all in illusion they’re in Maya now what they see is that rather than seeing the dissimilarity between them and others. Oh, these people are attached. These people are ignorant. I am enlightened. I am detached. Generally, when we look at others, if I am looking at someone else, you know, I can look at them from two perspectives. How they are similar to me and how they are dissimilar. Hm. So for example if we are dealing with people who are not practicing bacti then that becomes a major dissimilarity between us and them. They are not practicing we use the word non-devotees. Now personally I don’t like the word non-devotees because we use it often non-devotees to refer to non-ISCON members but there are many people outside is also can be devotes. Iscon doesn’t have a monopoly on devotion isn’t it? So but in general every tradition has some less than complimentary way of referring to outsiders. H Christians use the word pagans. Muslims use the word kafir. We traditionally use the word mchas yanas. Now we also use genically use the not devotees or kmis. So in some ways this differentiation that know we live according to certain values. We have certain practices. So We have a different identity and looking at this difference is important so that we can pursue our values. So this is looking at the dissimilar it is positive when it helps us to stick to our values and our purposes. H but looking at how that dissimilar it can become negative if it makes us like going back to the earlier point heartless. Heartless means you know if there is some catastrophe there’s a earthquake and people die and somebody says oh what is this these are all people who are sinful and they are suffering because of their own karma and dying that is a very heartless way of looking at things now if we just keep looking at the dissimilarities I didn’t so I remember when I was introduced to bacti And that 911 I was about four or five years in Baky 911 happened and one devotey wrote an article at that time. He says that the religious fanatics destroy the material fanatics and this is just fanatics destroying each other. It is a completely heartless way of looking at it. Now we are we we are devotees but still we are human beings. They are human beings. We are on a similar journey. So your so there are times when we should be able to put aside all our differences and we should be able to see that we are essentially similar and seeing the similarity is talked about in many places one of the most celebrated verses of Bhagat Gita is 5.18 we see the similarity we see similar vision not just all human beings but all living beings so our spirituality should lead us. So basically in our vision when we’re looking we can see dissimilarities and we can see similarities. So now if a particular aspect becomes too much say if we see only dissimilarities that’s a problem. If we see only similarities there’s also a problem over there. If you see only dissimilarities I said what will happen is we will become utterly heartless. Recently I heard about an incident that happened in Afghanistan that there’s some devastating earthquake and know the Taliban is ruling over there. The Taliban enforces rigid gender separation. So uh the idea is that no man should touch any other any woman other than his wife. And there were women who were trapped under the debris and there were no female rescue workers to come and rescue them. The Taliban issued edict that that no males should touch any females and just because there were no female rescue workers many women got crushed and died. Now yes in any spiritual tradition there has to be some gender separation but this is taking it to a irrational degree. It is a outrageous degree. So what happens is if we see dissimilarity so much that we cannot see our shared humanity. Mhm. That is a problem. Now if we see only the similarities as I said then we may lose our values. We may lose oh we are just together and you know they are smoking and drinking. I don’t want to make them feel hurt. So then they offer me to drink some alcohol. I also take alcohol. No we we can’t just focus only on our symptoms. So the idea is that it requires intelligence to know when to focus on the dissimilarities and when to focus on the similarities. So we focus on our the dissimilarities so that we can stay connected with Krishna. We don’t want to lose our connection with Krishna but we focus on the similarities so that we can stay connected with people. We don’t want to be disconnected with people. people also right generally for any tradition any tradition to grow there has to be a a similarity a significant level of similarity and a significant level of difference of that tradition with the broader world see this is the tradition and this is the broader world h so say we are the we are the Krishna consciousness movement we had the Har Krishna tradition and this is say the broader world say we could call it the UK culture now if If we are completely different from them, then we will just be seen as a weird cult. But if you’re completely similar to them, then we will have no identity left. So the important thing is to know when to see the difference and highlight the difference and when to see the similarity and highlight the similarity. So quite often conflicts arise when this difference is not when this this nuanced understanding of when to see the difference and when to see the similarity that is that principle is not carefully applied. Okay, let’s look at the next paragraph. Who would like to read the next paragraph? Is everyone waiting for everyone else? Yes, please.
My dear Lord, help me to develop similar empathy. Let me see, my Lord, that just as my attachment to material things drags me the universe of worldly troubles. So too, everyone else is just as vulnerable. And just as my lord, spiritual realization has given me access to a happiness I never imagined. A happiness so fulfilling and vast that both material pleasure and material troubles fade into insignificance and passion. The same holds true for anyone.
Yes. So when you see the similarity, ultimately everyone is a soul. Everyone is seeking lasting happiness. Now the specific attachments that different people have may be different but everybody is held down even pulled down by their attachments from wherever they are and if they can become free from those unhealthy attachments they can rise up. So for some people their attachment may be to food for some people it may be to fame for some people it may be to fury some people like to be angry. Some people seem to go through life searching for reasons to be angry. There’s a there’s a culture of outrage in today’s world like this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. They don’t realize that looking in looking for what is wrong, they themselves are going wrong. Right? So everybody has their vulnerabilities, their attachments which pull them down. So in that sense we all are similar. So the idea is that if you consider we are all on a path of growth. Now we all may be at different places. Now there are some things for all of us that lift us upwards. The specific thing that lift us upwards may be different and there are some things that pull us backward, pull us downwards. So from wherever we are and in this we are all similar. So whether it is again human beings in general, devotees in particular, we all have a higher nature which if devel can help us to grow and we all have a level lower level lower level lower level lower level lower level lower level lower level lower level lower level lower level lower nature which if triggered can pull us down and this is a struggle that we are all going through and sometimes what may happen is that from this perspective it’s like if there’s an interaction between two people it’s like my higher nature my higher nature is where I can be kind I can be gentle I can be forgiving and your higher nature. That means if you consider my higher nature x-axis my higher nature is active it’s or yes or no not active and okay let’s put this way sorry instead of putting it active inactive it’s my higher nature or my lower nature. My higher nature is not active means my lower nature is active or your lower nature is active. So I can be resentful, I can be bitter, I can be petty or you can be similar. Now based on that our interactions can go through four quadrants where my higher nature is interacting with your higher nature, my lower nature is interacting with your lower nature, my higher interact nature is interacting with your high lower nature and my lower nature is interacting with your higher nature. So now among these which interaction would be the best.
So which quadrant? If I consider starting from the right bottom 1 2 3 4 which quadrant yes this would be the best the best where the I am kind gentle I am forgiving and you are kind you are gentle you are forgiving. Then what happens? I am trying to do my best and sometimes I may slip. You are trying to do your best and sometimes you may slip. So this is the best situation to be in. And when praupad established con he talked about seven purposes of Iscon. And one of the purposes he says is to bring all people closer to each other and closer to Krishna the prime entity. So it is not just closer to Krishna. Praad didn’t want just us to become pure devotees. He also wanted to have a society or a community of devotees. So closer to each other and closer to Krishna. So when my higher nature interacts with your higher nature, what will happen is say if I am here and you are here. So I will come closer to you and I will also rise upward. You will come closer to me and you will also rise upward because by my higher nature I can help you without being judgmental or without being hyperritical and you can help me without being judgement. mental or hyperritical. So I can help you improve and you can help me to improve. So this is the best interaction. Now among these four quadrants which would be the worst interaction?
Which quadrant?
Yes. Three. My lower nature interacts with your lower nature. Says I am irritable. I am bitter. I am vengeful. And so are you. Uh you cannot think of a worse scenario over there. So in that case what will happen is that both of us we might be closer to each other but we will go downward and we’ll go further. In fact what will happen is almost the opposite of what shapa said come closer to each other and come closer to Krishna we go further away from each other and we go further away from Krishna. So this would be the worst case scenario. Now Among the other two, my higher nature and your lower nature or your higher nature and my lower nature, which is better?
Okay.
Okay. You know, both are not so good. But you can say in one at least I will be acting better.
You know if you want if you want to consider from my part I am doing my best. So Both of these are going to be tough but at least there is some saving grace. No, but tough from there something positive can come not necessarily it will come but that later on when my lower nature is there but you when I am irritable when I am petty when I am being mean and at that time you are kind you are gentle you are forgiving then afterwards when my lower nature subsides when I come back to my normal my my senses then I’ll actually appreciate that oh you know you extended yourself you tolerated me and then maybe our appreci that that phase will be difficult for you but maybe after that we’ll come closer to each other and vice versa the same thing can happen the other way also so for all of us when we are interacting with each other no it’s best if we can situate our if both the people can both the people people involved are in quadrant 4. I am calm and you are calm and we work together. H if I am irritable and you are irritable and we work together, it’s going to be difficult. Now I’ll talk about what we can how we can try to get ourselves in the fourth quadrant and why we might go out of the fourth quadrant and what we can do to get ourselves back. Let’s look at the last paragraph now. Who would like to read the last paragraph?
Yes. Yeah.
Grant me, oh Lord, not just this spiritual vision, but also the resulting vigor to share spiritual wisdom with all so that they too can experience this relief, giving relief giving liberation, material illusion, this joy giving connection with spiritual reality. My merciful Lord, empathy and compassion of my spiritual growth, never Yes. So now when we have spiritual wisdom, one understanding of the one part of spiritual wisdom is that understanding that we all have a higher nature, we all have a a global nature. We have a divine side, we have a less than divine side. H so and we try to develop our divine side and we spiritual wisdom is sharing. Spiritual wisdom is not just about giving talks. It’s actually about inspiring everyone to also develop their higher nature. So let’s try to look at this last part now. Um which will go about for two and a half hours. That’s my lower nature speaking. So I’ll speak for 10 15 minutes and then we’ll have some question answers when we talk about our higher nature and our lower nature. So in general we could say especially when two people are interacting with each other. Mhm. If both people are doing their parts well if say we are cooking for a program or we are doing decoration for a gin mastery festival or something like whatever service we are trying to do together and everybody is playing their role smoothly then it’s not a problem everybody does their part and things move forward smoothly. Now generally if I am here and you are here and both of us I’m doing my part you are doing your part, things move along smoothly. But two ways things can go wrong. Now, one is that one person does something in an extraordinary way. H when that happens, the other person can become insecure. H this person is so good and then if this person is so good, everybody will praise this person. Everybody notice this person, nobody will notice me, nobody will praise me, nobody will even care for me. Now, it’s important to understand that insecurity is not the same as envy. Envy is where we want to pull the other person down. Insecurity is where we feel that oh, if this person has such a prominent place, then I’ll have no place for myself. There’ll be no place left for me. So, insecurity itself can lead to envy. But insecurity is not envy. Insecurity is a natural human emotion that can come upon all of us when we see that someone who we thought was equal to us or similar to us has suddenly become better than us. So the key difference between envy and insecurity the key difference is that envy is pull others down. It is pull the other down. Whereas in insecurity is about do I have a place. It is more about the self not in a self self-centered sense but in a sense of worrying about ourselves. It can happen in a family you know when the when there is one child and then the second child that is born then naturally the new child that is born the parents attention goes to the new child. And in the elder child we feel do I have any role? It’s important that the parents include the elder child in the care of the new child. So that you know that you are a part of the family and you are valued. It happen it happens for devotees also. Sometimes when new people come we pay a lot of attention to new people. But then those who are devotees they start feeling neglected. Isn’t it that now it’s not that those who are practicing devotees want attention but everybody needs some basic level of affection. So insecurity can come up when one person does something much better than others. The other way things can go wrong is let’s say one person is at the same level the other person starts doing wrong things. H so here if you consider the same level one person goes above or the other person goes down. H so know everybody is supposed to do play some role and one person keeps making mistakes. Mhm. And then what can happen is here this person can become irritable. This person can become bitter. Why are you messing up everything? Because of you say some cooking used to be done and one person is being very slow in cooking in doing that part and everybody suffer because of that. Then naturally others can become irritated by that. So now from this so here what is happening is that we all are good at certain things and we not so good at certain things. This is just a fact of life. But going back to the earlier point of whether we see the similarity or the dissimilarity now I am doing so well why you not doing so well or why not why are you not doing your part at all. When we start seeing the dissimilarity at that point what happens is either way that’s where the conflict starts growing. Here if we understand the similarity now we are all working for the same purpose. all working for the same cause and some people may be able to do more some people may to do less that’s okay in the story of uh the building of the Rama now the Hanuman and the Vanas were they were building giant boat bringing giant boulders and the squirrel was just bringing some dust particles so when they focus on the dissimilarity what happened you know you’re just coming in our way you get out of our way so that we can do the build faster. So the vanas saw the dissimilarity between them and the squirrel. But what did Lord Ram see the similarity? He said you are helping me build the bridge and the squirrel is also helping me build the bridge. You are doing it according to your capacity. I am doing it the squirrel is doing it according to its capacity. So the idea is whenever there are dissimilarities, how do we see the dissimilarities when that so if I can see those dissimilarities in a positive charitable way then it’s my higher nature is being activated and the chance of the conflict escalating decreases we can we can work amicably we can manage things sometimes I fall short and you cover for me sometimes you fall short I’ll cover for you like that but when my low when when you do something wrong and my lower nature is activated or I do something wrong and your lower nature is activated then We go down this track of escalating conflicts in three ways. This is the last part of the talk that sometimes there is a traffic jam. H jam means what? You just can’t move ahead. So like that sometimes there can be a relational jam. The relationship just stagnate. There’s a conflict. There’s a collision but there’s no movement forward. So when someone is doing something which is wrong h or somebody doing something which creates problems for others. Say there was a program and uh we we were going for a retreat and we are supposed to cook for we are supposed to cook food for 100 people but then 150 people turned up and then what do we do at that time? Now somebody could have said oh we are going to have this program better cook for more people in case in case uh if case more people come what we should not have shortfall of food some other person says that no no it’s Krishna prasad if you cook more it’ll go waste we don’t want to waste lux we don’t want to spend lux unnecessarily so now in this case what has happened is say the person who said cook more was right the person who said cook less was wrong but then at from that point how do we deal with that situation so broadly whenever there’s a difference between two people. We can go look at that difference especially difference here in terms of a somebody has made a mistake and how do we approach that mistake. So at one level we can see it as a judgment error. Mhm. Everybody can make a judgment error at times. Now we are all human and we say suppose you’re supposed to come for a program and we thought okay it’s going to take 30 minutes. And then we find out that the traffic situation is going to take one and a half hours. And by the time we reach the program, the program is already over. And say some we were supposed to drive somebody or somebody was supposed to drive us and we get angry with that person. Now there’s a judgment error. It’s annoying. But this is it is understandable. Now we can go beyond that and we can say it is there is a ability deficiency. This person just doesn’t have the ability. to do particular things. So somebody for example says that okay you are supposed to do crowd control and you didn’t do crowd control therefore you’re fired. Now why you just don’t have the skill set you don’t just don’t have the temperament you just can’t do it. Now among the two if our judgment is if somebody says your judgment is wrong and somebody says your ability is lacking which is likely to be more hurtful? Yeah. And you don’t have the ability itself that is going to be more painful. That is going to be more difficult to deal with. The last is probably the most obvious. It is it is motive aspersion. That means we cast aspersion about that person’s motive itself. Say there’s a team working for a program and one person is going to book another person going to give a talk and the person who is cooking that person doesn’t cook adequate quantity of food a lot of people don’t get food and that person says the person who was going to give the talk that person says you know because I was going to give the talk you didn’t want my program to be successful and that’s why you deliberately sabotage my program now when we start questioning people’s motives then that hits the closest to the heart because not just like sometimes we touch a nerve. This doesn’t just touch the nerve. This cuts the nerve. It like it’s the arrow goes right into the heart. And when somebody is accused that your motive was bad, then it becomes very difficult to repair the relationship. So in general when conflicts occur because of one’s person having made some mistake and had done something which turns out to be wrong. The principle we can use is what Krishna author 16.22 aunam aunum means aversion to fault finding now aversion to fault finding means always start with the least negative explanation. So if we see somebody doing some mistake, always start with the least negative and go to the most negative at the very end. Once I was giving a there’s a festival raopath temple where I am based and I was giving the festival talk. So after the talk there was quite a bit of question answers. So I was answering the questions and by the time I came down to the prasadam area It had been a fe it was a feast but most of the prasad was over and there was a dessert there was a sweet and I couldn’t see the sweet was over and I was feeling a little bad you know and then I sat down to take prasad and then there’s another senior devotey was sitting opposite and I could see that he he had had a sweet in his plate and the sweet had was over so he had taken it and then he started asking is there more sweet and he asked one server one devote was serving and other devotey was surveying and because he was a very senior devotey everybody started running around you know is there any sweet available is there any sweet available now I was getting irritated with this person now what is it you already had one helping don’t you have any sense of shame why are you asking for more and everybody’s running around asking and many times when those who are serving prasad in case there’s a contingency and prasad gets over they make their own plates and keep h so finally one of the server brought his own plate and from that plate he started serving out the sweet and I felt this is the side of shamelessness and when he was about to serve that food at that time that devotey said no no I don’t want it I already got it and he pointed to me he hasn’t got that sweet can you get the sweet so what I thought was shameless behavior was actually selfless behavior He was not asking it for himself. He’s asking for me. So but if that the other devotey had not brought that food from that plate, brought that sweet from his plate and try to serve to the other person serve to that devotey, I would not have come to know also. So based on the context somebody’s asking for sweet, they actually think is for themselves. So what I was thinking is what attached person. So it is a complete mis misreading. of the situation. So in general what happens when we interact with others if I am here the other person is here so what I can see is only their actions now beyond that the intentions that led to the actions h that is unknown to me but we often jump to conclusions about the intentions and that is where problem starts coming. Just before I came here I was in Rishies. The Rishiesh is the world yoga capital but it’s also become the capital of adventure sports now in India. So there is bangi jumping over there. Now somebody jumps from a high high mountain down it can be quite risky. But the most dangerous jumping is not jumping from mountain and top. The most dangerous jumping is jumping to conclusions. That is the jumping we all tend to do. So essentially one of the things we if we want to minimize conflicts, conflicts will occur because we all have lots of things to do and in ser Krishna there are challenges in serving Krishna. There are obstacles that come up and there will be differences of opinion that come up. So the basic principle is try to start with the least negative motivation for the other person actions. Try to be the most charitable in ascribing any motive any any motivation for their actions and that way we can deescalate the conflict. So I’ll give a couple of examples of this and then we’ll have questions. And when if we consider the story of Wali and Sugiva, I have elaborated this quite elaborately in my book on the Ramayah wisdom from the Ramayah. So now what happened is in the case of Wii and Sugriu, Sugriu misunderstood Wii and Wii misunderstood Sugriu. What happened? Both of them had a misunderstanding. I won’t go into the full story. But they had both gone to chase after a demon who was terrorizing their kingdom. And that demon ducked into a cave and Wally said I will go inside the cave and I will deal with the demon and you stay at guard at the gate in case there’s some uh it’s circular and he comes out you deal with him. So suggest no you you stay here outside because while was the elder brother Suguru agreed while was also the king and then while Sugu stayed outside for a long long long time and he did not hear anything and finally he heard the screaming of the demon but he did not hear any sound of Wally and then he saw blood trickling out and he became alarmed. He did not hear any sound of Wally and he thought Wally has been killed and he thought if this demon is powerful enough to kill Wally it will be difficult for me to deal with the demon. He will kill me also and if he if I’m also killed then he will go and destroy destroy our entire kingdom. Our kingdom will be defenseless. He said I have to trap this demon. And he got a huge boulder and with great effort blocked the entrance so that the demon would be trapped inside. So now while he had survived but while he had chased this demon for a long time and normally he would roar triumphantly when he would win but on this day he was after chasing the demon he was so tired that he conserved his energy and did not roar. When he came out and he saw that the the cave entrance is blocked. He said, “What happened?” He called out for Sugary. He couldn’t find Sugary anywhere and he had to was already tired. But somehow he rested. He survived. He found something to eat in the cave. And for days and days he was struggling to try to push that cave, push that open the cave entrance. And finally succeeded. And he mar he came out and he saw Did anything happen to Suguryu? He didn’t see any signs of any struggle or any fight outside and he just saw Suguru’s footprint is going back from there. Now what had happened? Suguryu came back and they he told the citizens that Wally is been killed. There was a statewide grieving because Wali Sanangad was too small. Then eventually the minister said you become the king and he reluctantly with a heavy heart as a duty to his brother And to his citizens he agreed. Now when Wali came back to the kingdom already suspicion was mounting how did that boulder come and exactly closed the entrance of the cave. And when he came and he saw Sugre on the throne how dare you try to kill me so that you can grab the kingdom. I trusted you. You’re not just my brother. You are my best friend. The rage that came over him, he just wanted to beat Sugre to pulp. Now, Sugre had no chance. He also knew Wali’s anger. So, he realized that rather than getting beaten up, I live for another and tell my tale another day. And he fled from there. Unfortunately for Wally, what happened that Sugri fled confirmed his suspicions. Why would he flee? if he was not guilty. Now the other citizens and Wali’s own wife Tarashi tried to explain to him that you know this is what Sugary thought. The Wally was so angry. He said you all people you’re so naive. You think any demon could have killed me? What do you think about my power? How could you believe Sug? He says he spun a yarn and all of you fell for it. And he absolutely refused to believe him. Believe anything positive on Suguru’s side. Now in this case what happened? Both committed a mistake of judgment. Neither of them had a wrong motive. When when Suguru thought when Wali said initially that Sugi you stay outside, he just didn’t want the demon to slip out. When Suguri decided to close the entrance, he again didn’t want the demon to terrorize their kingdom. Now when so basically when Sugur Wali saw Sugri on the throne. Now it was not that he hated his brother but it is understandable misunderstanding you can say but the problem was that Aali went to the point of saying that you are a traitor and then see what happens sometimes we say that if somebody’s angry you know anger let it go for some time it’ll become cool the person will cool down and that is true but that’s not the Only thing that happens if anger goes on for a long time it becomes cold and it becomes cold it becomes hatred and hatred is far more dangerous than anger. So sometimes when two people have a misunderstanding they say I don’t want to talk with you I want to stay keep a distance from you and yes that’s good when both are when when both are hurt or both are angered it’s like both their both lower nature is being activated at that time better keep a distance from each other. But if the distance stays for a very long time, then both can start developing more and more negative conceptions about each other. It becomes hatred. So what happened to Wii? Wii decided that Sugri tried to kill me once and he will try to kill me again. Therefore before that I will try to kill him. And Sug had to run all over the earth to find some hiding place. And finally he found a hiding place in the Rushmuk mountain. And it was right next to Somali. kingdom but Wali couldn’t reach there because of because of a curse and he became so frustrated that you know he wanted to punish Suguru who did this to me and then finally he said how will I punish you he said I will punish you by taking your wife for myself you know and some in every conflict you know the conflicts can happen and conflicts can degenerate But in any conf all conflicts you know there are certain lines which should never be crossed and if those lines are crossed then it becomes the point of no return then the relationship just can’t heal and eventually Lord Ram had to kill Wally that is the only way it resolved. So what happened over here is if you look at it like the conflict between Wii and Suguru what Wii did was from Suguru’s side It was a judgment error. He thought that it is Wally has been killed. But from Wally, what did he think? This is a it is a motive aspiration that you wanted to usurp the kingdom. You are a traitor and that’s how conflicts got escalated and it became a not just a conflict became a fatal confrontation. Now in contrast, if we Look at say Ram and Kai. This is other. So now what Kai did to Ram was terrible. For no fault of his Ram was exiled. So Kiki’s actions towards Ram were quite negative. Now interest significantly Kai never had any antipathy or hatred towards Ram. For her it was that I just want my son to be the king and I want Ram to get Ram to be out of the way. But still what she did was terrible. The action was terribly negative. But what did Ram see it as? Ram saw it simply as a judgment error. He felt that you know she’s just going through a phase and that phase will end. That sometimes see when somebody’s made a judgment error what happens that when the error of the judgment becomes obvious, okay, they correct themselves. But when somebody’s motive is wrong, then what happens? Even if their error becomes exposed, they don’t acknowledge the error. They try to cover it up. They try to justify it. They try to rationalize it. So when Barat came back and when Barat chastised Kai say what did you do? Then Kik came out of her stuper and she changed so much that she came with bat to to ask Ram to come back and although that judgment error had a cost Dash passed away and Ram had to go to the forest but their family did not break apart their family was not ruptured so we could say here temporarily Kai’s lower nature was activated but what happened Ram of course he’s the highest nature but he is the god but he acted for our purpose we can say that he accord his higher nature and that’s how the conflict was deescalated. So in general we cannot control the other person’s nature whether they will act according to the lower nature or higher nature but what we can do is we can try to always act according to our higher nature and that means that give the other person the benefit of the doubt and that way conflicts can be deescalated and gradually resolved. So I’ll summarize what I discussed. So our topic was broadly conflict management and within that I discussed three main points. The first point I started was about how when we function we may misunderstand detachment and detachment should make us cool not cold. So cool means we are level-headed. Cold means become heartless. So sometimes when we are in interacting with others is a time to look at the similarities, a time to look at the dissimilarities. So when there’s a difference of opinion, if we if we look if you only look at the dissimilarities, we can become heartless. If you only look at the similarities when dealing with others, we may become identityless. We may not have any distinctive identity we just lose ourselves. So we need to be able to balance both. So we we discussed how do we do achieve this balance. So in that I talked about how we have our two natures. H so sometimes we act according to our higher nature we somebody else. So we talked about the higher nature. I’ll just use the short words higher my higher nature and your higher nature. or my your lower nature and my lower nature. So the best is where both are in their higher nature. The verses with both are in the lower nature. So we discussed how to try to now we cannot control where the other person is. But what we can try to do is we can stay in our higher nature. And how do we maintain our higher nature. We talked about when there are error when there are when the conflicts arise because of differences of opinion and ultimately differences in action and the when the conflicts arise from mistakes done by somebody. So how do we evaluate the mistakes? What is the acronym discussed?
Jam. Yes, J was what?
Judgment error. So start with the most able explanation. So first think it is a judgment error and let it go. And second is it’s a ability deficiency. That person is not just doesn’t have this ability. They don’t have the competence. That doesn’t mean they’re a bad person but they just can’t do this. But third is motive espersion. This person has a bad motive. So if we if we are in our my higher nature then I’ll be able to see that I’ll go towards one. If I my lower nature, I will ascribe the lowest motive to your action. And we discussed that how the Wii suguru conflict degenerated whereas the Ram and Kaik conflict did not degenerate so much because of the difference in perception. So Wii conflict it degenerated. It went downwards. Whereas the Ram Ram K conflict was resolved. because they acted according to their Ram acted according to highest nature and eventually Kiki also returned to her higher nature. So let us pray that know we can all going back to the starting prayer. Sorry. Okay, you want to let’s recite this prayer. Open the screen once again. Let can repeat after me if you like. My dear Lord
let my spiritual growth
Let my spiritual growth Increase my empathy.
Increase my empathy.
Not my apathy.
Not my apathy.
Let me let me not become judgmental. Let me remain understanding towards each other. Thank you very much. H Krishna. Is there any question or comment? Anybody has? Yes, please. You have a mic or you can speak. Yeah, you can.
Yes, Roman pro you can get the books. Um, thank you.
Thank you for your discussion. This was so clear. Um, it was such a good presentation. My question is just maybe I feel like you answered it in prayer but maybe just some more elaboration. Um I was just wondering how much like when we’re trying to act in our higher nature um how much of it is an active like my question is more how much of it is an active process that requires effort on our part or some sort of character development or some sort of self-development versus if our energies improve all of those good qualities would come anyway. Um so my question is just about what’s the relationship between the two So if you want to act according to high higher nature, will that happen automatically if our sadena is good or do we need to consciously endeavor to develop that higher nature? See the answer to this will depends on whom you ask. But you would say my understanding I’ll tell you that see we can when we talk about bi itself now we can have a narrow understanding of bacti or we can have a broad understanding of bacti. A narrow understanding of bacti means what? Like basically we say that But we don’t always operate according to our understanding of bacti only isn’t it? So if you want to build a temple for Krishna or if you want to cook for Krishna we don’t say chant Har Krishna you’ll become a good cook isn’t it you have to learn cooking isn’t it is you have to build a big nice temple not chant har krishna architect you’ll be able to do you will become good architect it doesn’t work like that so if somebody has to build a temple for Krishna then they may not necessarily get architectural degree but they have to have some knowledge of architecture and they have to study for that so if in the so in the ambit of bacti so narrow understanding bacti is only devotional activities in the sense that you could say just direct direct activities let’s put let’s put like bi means only sadhana but a broad understanding could be bi also includes various forms of sava and whatever is required for that sava. So if somebody is going to serve by promoting social media outreach then how social media works they have to learn that and that is also in the ambit of sava. So if skills learning skills can be included within the ambit of bacti then why can’t learning values be included in the ambit of bacti isn’t it? So we don’t have to suppose somebody learn reads some books about you know how to become more sensitive in their speech if they’re a little harsh in their speech. Now if if devotees have written some books on that that’s great but if devotees have not read written any books on that if you read some other books there’s nothing wrong in it it’s depends on what is our purpose if our purpose is to serve Krishna the ambit of bacti can be quite broad so for some people so and to conclude this answer for some people who for whom some conditioning might be very less then say from the past itself in their upbringing they grew up in a very cultured uh home and they were always very careful in their speech and in general they were sensitive maybe they had a little sometimes they don’t get angry they start practic anger goes away naturally they behave in a culture dignified sensitively they speak that way rather not just behave speak specifically but so suppose somebody came from a conditioning where they they grew up in a culture where you know every every second sentence had a swear word and that’s the way people spoke you know one devote was telling me that he grew up in a tough neighborhood in America he says that the only way only conflict resolution technique I learned in my going was to raise your voice whoever’s voice is louder that person wins now if somebody’s coming from that kind of upbringing you know they may need that kind of back ground then they may need some more effort to learn to become more sensitive. So it’s not that everybody has to read many many books for developing character but two things if our service requires that that particular attribute and if our background has made that attribute difficult for us to attain then putting in some concentrated effort for developing that attribute is not outside the ambit of bacti. Okay, thank you. Any other questions or comments? Yes, from here ahead point of envy and insecurity. So once one devotey had a skill and his senior told him that because of the skill there’s a very good chance that the devotees around you they might become insecure which might lead to envy and eventually to bad relationships. So be a bit careful. So what should this devotey do in such a situation? Should he reduce the exercise of that skill or is there any other work around? So if somebody has some special skill and the you manifesting of that skill can make others insecure and eventually envious. Should they not manifest that skills? Uh I would say that sometimes we have to be a bit context sensitive like when uh Lord Ram is ready to go to the forest and initially he’s telling Sitha that you stay in the kingdom at that time he gives her some guidance about how to stay and he says that when you are in Bhat’s presence don’t glorify me which is an interesting statement to make that Bat has just become the king now for whatever means he has become the king Ram is talking about talking about a future scenario that if Bat has become the king and from some way he has become the king Ram was supposed to become the king so in front of Barat if Sitha starts glorifying Ram then Yeah, that can trigger insecurity that can trigger envy. Now bat is not like that and it’s not likely it’s not likely to happen at all. That’s what eventually is seen. Bat is completely unattached to the kingdom. But the point is Ram is giving a guidance over there that if somebody has taken up a service h and they are doing that service say if we attend a devotees class and the devotey has spoken on a particular topic And after we hear that class, we start glorifying some other devotey who gave class on the same topic and we don’t appreciate this class at all. Isn’t it? Now if you appreciate the class and they say okay that class also I learned something and there’s some similarity that’s a different thing. So see there is a particular forum where glorification should not be done. H so that context sensitivity is required. So if Say we are in a particular place where you know some devotey has some devotey has been invited for doing kithan uh that devotey is playing a particular instrument and say we can play in that same instrument better than them but but that whole program is organized for them say as consider say somebody’s birthday is there and on that their birthday maybe they are going to show how they have learned to play a flute and They come and play the flute and they play it well and in that occasion which is meant for them. We play the flute and we play it better than them and it’s it’s what do you what is it called? It’s like what is the word in English for that? You know not steal the thunder. It is steal the moment. There’s a phrase for that. You know that uh that some that there’s a special moment for someone and you steal that moment from them. That causes bitterness. Unfortunately that’s what Karna did to Juna when Dona’s students were exhibiting their martial skills, Karna came and he stole what was supposed to be what was supposed to be Arjuna special moment. Now it was not that Arjuna was egoistic person but it was it was not in the best of taste. Now I have not that’s a whole complicated situation but my point is that Arjuna had reason to feel annoyed and angered with Karna. So there are certain forums where maybe a person should not exhibit their talents. Say if a senior devotey is giving a class and maybe we they speak on a particular topic and we have studied that topic more than that devotey. But if it’s their community, if it’s their followers and when they are asked a question and they give a wrong answer and we are in the audience, should we correct their senior devote at that point? Should we show our knowledge at that point? No, we should not. So I would say in certain forums Definitely we should be cautious about exhibiting our abilities but I would say that it should never be made into an absolute principle that if any devotey has been given some talent then that talent is given by Krishna and is meant to be offered to Krishna. Now a gift in one is meant to be a gift for everyone. That means if one devotey can sing nicely that is a gift for everyone. If one Devotey can speak very well that can be a gift for the entire community is it? So a gift in one is meant to be a gift for everyone. So it’s not that that devotey should be permanently told to not never exhibit that ability. So in certain forums it can be curtailed but there are then the other eventually other forums need to be created where that devotees ability uh can be nurtured and developed and used. Does question. Thank you. Okay. Yes, please. You have a mic there. Yeah.
Thank you so much for your wonderful class. Um I know you gave the examples of Grea and Bali but practically in our life. So say if we have a relationship, we care about that person, but they’ve completely misunderstood us. He had good intentions, but then they are not willing to or they completely like they’re not willing to speak to us. In that in that situation, um how would we practically act in a higher nature in order to mend that relationship when actually had no bad intention in the first place?
Yeah. So if we had no bad intentions but the other person has completely misunderstood us and they’re not to talk with us at all. Uh how can we act according to high our higher nature? Well, I think that is the example of Ram and Kikai. You know, uh Kai thought that I’m the favorite queen and my son should become the king and Ram is a threat to me. Now, Ram acted on to higher nature means what? Rah did not do anything to put fire for fuel in the fire of the conflict. So, Ram did not for example speak ill of Kai when that Lakshman was angry with Kai Kai Rah told him you know don’t be angry that this is the this is the will of destiny when he was leaving he did not forment dissent and rebellion among the citizens instead he said that no this is a this is a difficult time for your king for our king and if you want to please me support him at this time his his mother was shattered and he told his mother that you know she felt that lifelong I was neglected although I was the senior was queen I was neglected in favor of a younger queen and now just when my son is supposed to be the king she has not only deprived of the kingdom he’s exiled him she felt angry with Kik and she felt angry with Tashrat for having allowed it to happen and she said to Rah you know I want I cannot live over here I’ll come with you to the forest and Lord Ram shifted her vision he says that this is the time when Dashrat needs you the most that the the queen he was closest to the person who he brought so close to her him that person has hurt him terribly and this is the time he needs you the most. So rather than rather than painting Dashrat as a victimizer. Ram helped Koschala to see Dash as a victim in need of help. So basically that person may be bad mouthing us. That person may be criticizing us uh making allegations against us. Now we may have to defend ourselves and we may have to clarify our actions or positions to those who are ready to listen but we don’t have to go about badmouthing that person. So I think that’s the best way we can act upon higher nature. If we have some senior devotey, some senior with whom they have a relationship and we have a relationship, we can go and tell our side of the story to them. Maybe they can talk with that person. So I say and sometimes it’s some time has to go. I said not too much time but sometimes some time has to go before they become open to hearing from our side. Mhm. So see one of the ways in which anger works is anger creates certainty. It’s a false certainty. But anger makes us certain this is what this was done and this is why it was done and therefore this person is a terrible person. So as long as that person is operating in that certainty zone, it’s very difficult to talk with them. So it’s either we have to let time bring them out of the certainty zone or we have to have somebody else talk with them who can get them out of their certainty zone and then eventually things can be resolved. Okay. Sometimes things may not be resolved at all. But then over a period of time, see the world is a big place and sometimes the praupad said we cooperate. He wanted us to cooperate and yes we want to cooperate but if we can’t cooperate then we can cooperate. Cooperate means you operate here I’ll operate here. So everybody needs a space and sometimes providing space to People who have strongly different opinions can ensure that both of them have their space to grow. See the Pandawas were extremely united. Five brothers were very united. And yet when Krishna went as a peace messenger, he asked his minimum requirement. What was it?
Sorry,
five villages.
Five villages. Not one village. They are all chhatrias. They all need their chetra. Everybody needs their space. So sometimes you just have to give the other person their space. space and we find our own space and move on if the res the things cannot be resolved. Okay. Thank you. Yes.
Hi. Um thank you so much for enlightening us on this really important topic. Um I was just thinking about this insecurity and envy. Um and how insecurity is thinking about myself and where do I fit in and what where is my place? And that insecurity can come from maybe some past life karma or our upbringing in this life or some what something may have gone through some trauma and that can leave us feeling insecure and then in different situations that can then like like you said it can lead to envy but it doesn’t have to be envy. So I just wonder if you could maybe speak a bit about that point of what to do when one is feeling insecure and how how we can or let it turn into envy and what we can do with that insecurity.
So our insecurity may come from a past karma or some past experiences. So how do we deal with that insecurity without letting it become envy? It’s difficult and I don’t think there’s any one standard way of doing it cuz see insecurity is where we it’s a very tender vulnerable state we are in. I would say that two things. One is in our relations and the other is in our vision. H so what I mean is that that in our relationships if we consider both of these in our relationships there are people who who strengthen us who encourage us there are people who value us There are people who value us and there are people who devalue us. And everybody will have these two categories of people. That’s just life. Some people will praise us. Some people will criticize us. Some people we do one thing for them and they will be so grateful. Some people will do 100 things for them and they’ll be critical that we didn’t do the 101st thing. H that’s just the way it is. So what we need to do is see the the worst situation is where We put ourselves here. That means we overvalue those who devalue us and we devalue those who value us. Then if somebody speaks negative and we just make that like a definitive judgment about us and somebody encourages, appreciates us, you say, “Oh, you always keep speaking like this only.” We devalue us. That is the worst place to be in the best place. here where we value those who value us. Now valuing us doesn’t mean always praising us. Sometimes they may also correct us but basically they see value in us and we don’t overvalue those who devalue us. Okay. So we need to find in our social circle people who will value us. Hm. And we need to value our relationship with them. That is one way to deal with insecurity. And that’s why one of the principles in bacti is also having like-minded association. So if my interest is studying scripture and teaching scripture and if I associate with people who are building big temples or cultivating large communities or or doing some big tangible projects, if I associate with them, I’ll always feel insecure. What am I doing actually? Isn’t it? So if somebody who is doing a lot of service in terms of raising funds they surround themselves with devotees who are very scholarly and they discuss oh this person knows Somishloka this person knows this scripture this person read this book what am I doing with my life so they’ll start feeling devalued so we all need like-minded association so that way we we will be valued and we will be valued we’ll be able to value those who are valuing us that’s one thing that’s in terms of our relations and the second is in terms of our own. If all of us have certain strengths and all of us have certain weaknesses, we could say that can take it further and we can say we all have certain things which are like blessings for us and we all have certain things which can feel like curses for us. So in general if we focus too much on what is wrong with us Then that will lead to insecurity. Oh, you know, I can’t I I can’t sing, I can can’t manage, I can’t speak, I can’t do this, I can’t do that, I can’t do that, I don’t have this ability, I don’t have this, I don’t have that. That will lead to insecurity. But if we focus on our strengths, on our blessings, then we will we will have that sense of security. And the original idea of Vanasham was basically both these principles were included. that brahmanas associate with brahmanas. Chhatrias associate with chhatrias. So they have a similar value system and then those who are brahminically oriented if they are doing brahminical work then naturally their strengths will be highlighted. A chhatria may not a brahmana may not be very good at managing finances but society is arranged such a way that a brahmana does not have to worry much about finances and that way their weaknesses don’t come in highlight. Now we don’t ashram in that sense. So but the social support might not be there but still individually we can try to apply that principle focus on our gifts and try to sometimes we say count our blessings that is important but not just count our blessings make our blessings count after that that means okay these are my gifts how can I utilize these gifts and how can I do something tangible with those gifts then when we are focused on that then that insecurities can become lesser Okay, thank you. Yes, maybe. Thank you very much. So, my question is about uh cool versus cold.
Sorry.
Cool versus cold.
Yeah.
So, let’s say something has happened and someone has affected you in a certain way and you don’t react at the time because you don’t want to be angry at the time and you think you’ve cooled off but actually after some time you realize you’re in a cold place. How do we warm ourselves? How do we go fast?
Okay. So, if there’s some painful interaction and we give time to cool down, but we find out that we we become cold instead of cool, what do we do? I think seeing the other person’s humanity is very helpful. That means the person who has hurt us. See, quite often we say hurt Hurt people hurt people that now now that does not necessarily justify any and every hurt you know we may I I may be hurt because of something and because of that I may yell at you and you know you can excuse that but there are certain boundaries if instead of yelling at you I start hitting you if because somebody hurt me and I take out a knife against you that is not acceptable so there are some boundaries but generally the point is that if we recognize that see the humanity of the other person as much as we can then uh a certain amount of softness of heart can come towards that person. So uh say it’s like if uh I am here and said the other person has hurt me terribly and because I have hurt me they have hurt me then what has happened is like I have created a defense ensive wall so that I just don’t want to interact with that person. Now that wall that wall can be a way of coldness I just don’t want anything to do with that person and sometimes that may be required for safety for our own protection but we could do is if there is someone else who has a relationship with that person and who has a relationship with us then through that person we may see the human side of that person that you know that person is also going through their struggles and that person is also having their challenges. So I think that is one way to bring some warmth. Now after we bring some warmth also if that other person still remains cold then it may be difficult like that’s why I said sometimes know some people get along with some people some people just don’t get along with some people now but even with people we don’t get along with we don’t have to spoil our relationship with them that’s why idea is you work here, you work here, we’ll we’ll cooperate. We have our space and they have their space. But in general, the more we can see their human side, the more that warmth will come up and that’s how we’ll be able to reconnect with them. So Yudish always always had a lot of fear of karana because he considered karana to be a great threat to Arjuna who was his greatest asset. And then when you When Karna was killed, Yudishtra celebrated. But then later when count was your brother. Yudhishtra felt completely shattered by that. And then he came to know that Karana had promised count that uh I will not kill any of your other sons. You should realize that he had an opportunity to kill me and he spared me. And then when I when I had a or when he was killed I celebrated that what kind of person am I? Now of course in that case there were many other exigent factors involved. So uh my point is that when Yudishna saw this side of karna not only that he is my relation but he also he spared my life because in some in his own way he cared for cared for my mother. That was not so much caring for his mother. It was more you could say caring for his reputation. Count had come to him with a request. He said come out of the pandas side. So he had that reputation that whenever anybody comes to me for charity they will never go empty-handed. So he said that you will not go empty-handed. You’ll always have five sons. That was not what count had asked. Count would have wanted to ka also to live. But my point is that when you see the human side of the other person then the warmth can come in the relationship. Okay.
So if we rationalize eventually that rationalization will affect you at the heart. Is that so? You’re saying if you can rationalize eventually the rationalization at the mental level will affect you at the heart level.
Rationalize. What do you mean by the word rationaliz?
You can see the human side of someone. You you’re understanding where they’re coming from. They’re like make them the way they are. So rationalization at the mental level and you say that that will eventually filter through to the heart level.
Okay. Yes. You’re using rationalizing in the sense of reasoning.
Yeah.
Okay. The word rationalize has a slightly different meaning. also but anyway so reasoning yeah so yeah if we so yes I think uh it’s not just thinking through it’s I think seeing the human side means just getting more information about the other person so see when the heart has become very cold it’s very difficult for the heart to be touched directly generally when the heart has become cold the way to the heart is through the head so there has to be some information which broadens our perspective and then after that okay you know maybe I have to maybe the emotions also change. There can be normally there can be a heart-to- heart connection. If there is no negativity between people but there’s no negativity then it’s very difficult for the heart to be touched directly. Okay. Thank you.
Yes. Maybe last question.
Thank you. I think you kind of touched upon it as you opening that communities tend to have much greater impact of conflict. Uh I wonder if you could talk a bit more about why. that happens. Why people take it in such a personality heavy way even compared to let’s say the corporate world where people are supposedly more non-confrontational and more easygoing with each other where they don’t have the necessarily the same values or even the the controls like etc which are supposed to stop us from doing that and then in relation to that how do you deal with the baggage of someone else feeling offended by you I’m not uh really forgiving or even if you’ve pulled down they continue to kind of
stay on that
and the second question I also already answered sometimes we just have to let it go that we just cooperate sometimes that person is not ready to reconcile we can’t do much about it we let them operate in their space we operate in our space now regarding the first question about why do we have devotees have more conflicts than uh than say non-devotees I think there are I address that in the jam acronym but I’ll make it a little bit more clear. So the point is that for us as devotees there are the first thing is that we are much more emotionally invested in what we are doing. H see for somebody in the corporate world it’s their job it’s their career it is their livelihood all that is important but for us our spirituality is the very foundation of our existence. We are far more emotionally invested and that’s why because this is so important for us we are extremely concerned that we have to get it right h that I have to get this right I cannot get this wrong and this is a question of not just my job is question of my eternal existence my eternal sal deliverance whatever so because we are so emotionally invested so naturally the the greater investment of emotions creates greater potential for conflict. Now this greater emotional investment also comes from a certain level of conviction and that conviction and certainty. See what happens practicing bacti is not easy and many of you may have grown up in a devotional family but eventually you have not just acquired it you have chosen it otherwise cannot continue. So when we are practicing bacti, we have to have a certain level of conviction that what I’m doing is right. We are going against the world and that conviction comes from the a certain level of certainty about our beliefs. This is right. So then when we have that conviction and that certainty that is what has made us go against the current of the world. And then when we in the devotey community we encounter somebody who has a different understanding of bacti who has a different way of doing bacti then that can threaten our very the foundation of our bacti itself if somebody’s conviction in bi comes from say following a particular rule in the particular way you know akadashi means you should absolutely avoid any food I’m just giving extreme example over here But if somebody’s conviction comes from that their seriousness of bacti is I fast on a kadesh and then somebody they encounter somebody or maybe that’s not a good example say somebody’s conviction in bi comes from the fact that you know bakti means you wear what we consider devotional dress now that shows to the world you’re not ashamed of being a devotey you’re not scared of being a devotey and that becomes the way they show their seriousness and then they meet somebody body who is completely nonchalant about that devotional dress. You know they just completely you know that dress is just external you know it’s it’s external but it’s essential expression of the internal no it’s external and it’s a non-essential thing so now both of them may be right both of them can quote scripture for their basis but for their particular position but if that position has become central to their connection with Krishna or their conception of their seriousness in their connection with Krishna then somebody challenging that becomes very difficult. So and the same certainty leads to negative judgment about others that if praupad said we should be wearing dotiki gorta and sari and you are not wearing that why because you have your own agenda you have your own program you’re not following praupad you are a deviant. So it it is it seems to be a small thing but it can become a very big thing. So I think that because we are so emotionally invested so small differences can become be very big. So the solution to this is that you know when we talk about spiritual seriousness there are two pathways towards spiritual seriousness. One is if somebody’s spiritual serious means they have faith I have faith that praupad is right. I have faith that our shastras are right and that faith leads to certainty. This is what is to be done. That is one trajectory of spiritual seriousness. And this is what has been traditionally emphasized in our institution. But spiritual seriousness can go in another way. If I’m spiritually serious, that means I have humility. Faith means Krishna is right and therefore I’m following Krishna and I’m right. But spiritual seriousness could also mean humility. Humility is Krishna is far greater than my capacity to understand Krishna. Prahuad is far greater than my understanding of praupad. So if we have humility then that humility will lead to comfort with uncertainty. that and you know discomfort with uncertainty is the essential point of achint is it is this B is it is same so it’s a we can’t know and it is not just a comfortable point is a celebratory point about our philosophy we just we just can’t know so so you know this particular trajectory is actually essential If you want to have a community of devotees now this trajectory may be good for individual growth that person can grow individually in their bacti and this is the right thing and I’ll do it and I’ll go towards Krishna and they can go towards Krishna but if you want to live in a community different devotees have different conceptions and having a some amount of humility that if I have been practicing bti for 20 years or 30 years or 10 years is and I have certain conception and if somebody else has also been practicing bakti for 10 or 20 or 30 years and they are doing bacti differently then does that mean that they are wrong or maybe they have got some realization which I do not have maybe they have some vision of serving praupad and Krishna which I do not have so if we can have that understanding then it is very helpful but unfortunately this humility we have very strongly institutionalized it at the physical level in very few organizations when you see somebody you bow down to them in churches you also you don’t bow down to Jesus the way s so physically we have institutionalized humility quite a bit but we have not cultivated so much intellectual humility like intellectual humility means that what I know is important but there is so much more that I do not know and I need to be open to that So if we have that I think a lot of conflicts can be minimized. Okay. So thank you very much. One more mass round of applause. So just a couple of announcements. This is my WhatsApp channel. Every day I share a prayer based on the Bhagat Gita, one article and also one question answer. So if any of you would like to join, you can get that. And I have a few books here. If any of you like to I have this is prayers inspired by Bhagat Gita which we discussed from there are 122 prayers over here and there’s a very accessible table of contents where you know you can find based on the title prayer that prayers that address various emotional needs we may have. There are prayers when we feel lonely or misunderstood. There are prayers when we feel lost and directionless in our life. Prayers when our desires start becoming wild and unmanageable. Prayers when we feel very dry and spiritually dry and devot ally very far away from Krishna. So many devotees have told me that especially reading one prayer before their daily chanting helps them to connect more with Krishna. This is one book and then this is a similar book about prayers but central prahuad when prahuad went to America he offered he composed a prayer marinhad dharma he had a formidable challenge of sharing Krishna bakti uh to audience who knew nothing about Krishna. So what were his thoughts? What was his vision? So this is Especially if we want to share spiritual wisdom with others and they are not able to understand it. But in general also if we have a service which is very difficult which seems almost impossible. So how can we be both dependent on Krishna at the same time diligent in doing our part. So that is there and then at the end there is also overview of Sid Praupad’s life story based on the acronym Prabhupad and eight life lessons from the eight stages of his life. And then this is Gita for the CEO. This is published by Collins one of the biggest publishers in the world and it is a national bestseller in India and like I as having this concept diagrams so there are illustrations explaining the concept so I’ve taken 10 key principles from the Gita which relate with daily life it’s not just for CEOs ultimately each one of us may be CEO of our own life so when we are not able to succeed then when should we attribute that lack of success to destiny and just accept it or when should we push on and move ahead. How does karma, destiny, all this work in our life? So there’s a whole chapter on karma and destiny and learning to be resilient when life knocks us down. There’s a chapter on sensitivity based on 8750 Gita. How we can learn to speak more sensitively and effectively. There’s a chapter on mindfulness and what is the mind when we have this emotional ups and downs. There’s a whole section on insecurity and how to deal with insecurity in the in our daily life. So like that there are 10 principles from the Gita and this This is also a book that you can give to your friends or colleagues or co- students who may not be able to directly connect with the Gita. So all these books are available and I I’ll be here for some time if you have any further questions or if you’d like to have the book signed. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.