3 Emotionally healthy spirituality – do the things that matter to me matter to Krishna Sydney

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

Thank you very much for coming today and today we are discussing a last part of the discussion on emotionally healthy spirituality and here we will discuss about what we have discussed till now. We are talking about what is the effect, how does the spirituality affect our emotions. It can be a positive, neutral or negative effect.

And we are trying to understand how to have the positive and to minimize the negative effect. So first we are talking about our own self, the three parts we are discussing. Self is to understand that the mind is just like the body, the mind is real.

The body can have a wound, injury like that the mind can also have a wound and therefore the mind also needs to be taken seriously in terms of it may require its own process for healing. Yesterday I talked about how the mind is subjective and objective and what can be a small thing and what can be a big thing can vary from person to person. But overall there is an understanding of different things are different, small and big things and accordingly we need to keep small things small and keep big things big.

That is the essence of tolerance and that will take us to transcendence. I talked about sequence 2.13 in the Gita is giving intelligence, 2.14 is tolerance, 2.15 is transcendence. So today I talk about how our relationship with Krishna, with divinity affects our emotions.

Same prototype, same three point framework if you can take. Our emotions and Krishna, at a positive level we often hear about the saints like Chaitanya Mahaprabhu being in utter ecstasy and they seem to have such emotions that we can barely comprehend those emotions. There are the ashtasatvik vikar, there are extraordinary symptoms of ecstasy that are there.

So across various traditions there are this idea that there is a very rich life of devotional emotion that a person experiences when they actually develop their love for God. So bhakti is at one level nothing but an emotion and we are trying to enrich our heart, deepen and sweeten that emotion connected with Krishna and this is what we can say we aspire for. We all would like to experience these rich emotions and these emotions seem to be so utterly otherworldly that it is for ordinary people very difficult to conceive what it is.

When there is ecstasy then it may happen that there are physical transformations that happen, when the hair starts standing on end, what Mahaprabhu would describe that sometimes limbs would get elongated and sometimes his body would shrink into itself like a tortoise. So the implication is that when he would feel Krishna is close to him, he wanted to withdraw all the senses into his body so that none of the senses would distract him and he could just focus on Krishna completely and when he felt that Krishna is going far away from him then his limbs would get elongated to try and catch Krishna. So that's one implication of that, of those remarkable physical transformations.

But without getting into the technicalities of the Laksha Satyapika, the idea is bhakti means there is a rich level of emotions which a devotee experiences in connection with Krishna. Now at the same time from our perspective what the negative effect could be that we may feel that as a part of our bhakti we may have to suppress our emotions. So this can happen in many different ways, so for example one devotee told me that he was from a Christian background, there is nothing to do with Christianity but this is in general possible in the religion.

So in Jewish tradition actually, in Judaism they have the idea of on the day of the Sabbath you don't do any activity, you don't use any machine. So as in New York, the predominantly Jewish community is there, in one particular area in New York. So there the idea is that you cannot operate any machines.

So on that day they will not drive cars, they will only hire Ubers and if there is an elevator on that particular day, the elevators in the building are on auto mode. So the idea is if you press the elevator you are operating the machine. But if the elevator opens and closes without you touching it, then you are not operating it.

Because then you will use the elevator. So they find a way, you have to move on in life. But it happened that there was some, he told that his parents drove a car on the day of the Sabbath and then in 2-3 days his parents met with a car accident and they died.

And then when that happened, he said I don't exactly remember whether the preacher told me or the rabbi told me or some elder told me. I thought that because I disobeyed God, because my parents disobeyed God and drove a vehicle on that day, that's why God has punished by causing this car accident and then I died. So he said that I felt so much anger towards God.

No, for okay, for such a small thing, why such a big punishment? And then, but when I told this to my grandmother, my grandmother says, don't express it at all. If you get express anger towards God, who knows what God will do to you now. So now, this is then, it can seem that it can become very emotionally unhealthy or toxic.

They are natural emotions. So is God such a judgmental or a vengeful God? No, it's a small mistake and a huge punishment will be given. That is not the conception of God that is there in the general bhakti tradition.

So here, it's like there are four levels at which we can have our relationship with God. Bhakti will talk about as fear, desire, duty and love. So these can be broadly connected with the three gunas.

In tamas, in the mode of ignorance, our relationship with God is primarily centered on fear. That there is some very powerful force or being existed up there and I should never displease that being. If I displease that being, I don't know what that person will do to me.

So the whole idea is, this is based on fear. And in general, across religious traditions, religious leaders have found it very convenient to use fear to keep their subordinates under their thumb. So it's very easy to do that.

Fear is, associated with fear in the religious context is guilt. So in the Catholic tradition, in the Christian tradition in general, they have the idea that we are all sinful because Adam rebelled against God. And in their idea, sin is almost something like a genetic defect that we all have inherited.

And we are all sinful because of that. So the Catholic guilt is quite famous. And the idea is, again this is not only to Catholicism, but the idea is that guilt is also something which creates a form of fear.

So fear can be used to control. Now, should we have fear of God? Well, yes, children, should children have some fear of their parents? Yes, of course. But fear should not be the only emotion in the religion.

Nowadays it has happened the other way. Parents are afraid of their children. That's not a healthy dynamic.

So sometimes some amount of disciplining is required. And so fear has to be there. But if the only basis of the relationship is fear, that's not at all healthy.

Now, the relationship becomes prominently in Rajas, it's desire. That means, if you do this charity, if you do this austerity, if you do this fast, then God will reward you in this way. And then, that is better than fear.

We have a positive conception of God as a rewarder. But still, it is very transactional. It is very utilitarian that I do something and I get something.

So in this case, often people are not interested in God per se. They are interested in just in what God gives them. It's like a shopkeeper kind of relationship.

We give something and we get something. Now, duty is in Sattva. We understand that God has already done so much for me.

My very existence is dependent on God. The air I breathe, the way my breathing happens, the way the blood circulates, the way the nature operates to provide me my needs. All this is arranged by God.

Therefore, I should be doing something for Him. That is, I should be serving Him. That is at the level of Sattva.

Now, Sattva is definitely better than Rajas and Tamas. But if we only have the idea of duty, it can soon become a burden. Oh, I have to do this, I have to keep doing this.

Now, love is at the level of Shuddha Sattva or transcendence. So, we want to come ideally to this particular level. Sooner rather than later, where we can connect with the Lord.

We want to serve Him, we want to chant His name because we love Him. At this level, we understand that Krishna is Krishna's greatest present. That whatever Krishna can give, if He can manifest in our heart, if He enriches our heart, that is the greatest present.

When Sudama went to meet Krishna, Krishna gave him great amount of wealth. But Sudama was not infatuated by that wealth. He focused on, Krishna has enriched me in this way, Krishna has blessed me in this way.

And he became even more devoted to Krishna. Instead of using whatever opulence he had to serve Krishna more and more. So, now it is generally, especially at this Tamas level, there can be a lot of emotional negativity.

So, sometimes if God is presented as a very judgmental being, who is out to punish us for every small wrong thing that we might do, then our God is an angry being, who will get angry at our smallest mistake. Then we may not have a very emotionally healthy state of mind when we are approaching God. So, if you see in the Bhakti tradition itself, while we talk about love for Krishna, you can call it Prema, within that it is described that there are many flavors in that relationship.

There is Akhira, Ditasiras, Vatsaliras, Madhuriras. Radharani has a particular flavor of relationship with Krishna. Arjuna has a particular flavor.

Eshadama has a particular flavor. And these are different flavors. So, love of Krishna is a very rich experience.

And within that also there are many different emotions. There is fear, there is anxiety, there is astonishment. So, there are many, there are seven secondary rasas.

Again, I am not going to all these rasas. But my point is that any rich relationship has a variety of emotions. So, when somebody, for example, somebody is trying to do something, they are working very hard, they are trying something very much, and then it doesn't work out, for whatever reason.

Then a person may feel very disappointed, a person may feel very dejected, that's understandable. Now, if they had prayed very much to Krishna, they had tried very hard, in a mood of Bhakti to serve Krishna, with that particular thing, and then it doesn't work out. Then it can be even more painful.

At that time, can a devotee become angry with Krishna? Is it that if a devotee becomes angry with Krishna, Krishna becomes even angrier with the devotee? How dare you become angry with him? See, normally, you can say, in any culture or society, we might feel anger towards our elders sometimes, but we won't express that. That is culture discipline is there. You remember I talked about emotions and desires.

Sometimes emotions might be there, but we won't act on those emotions. We won't raise our voice against our elders. But doesn't that mean that sometimes they may not do certain things which may infuriate us? It's possible that they may do such things.

The point I'm making over here is that life is complicated, and therefore, within life, many different kinds of situations may come up. So, when Draupadi, for example, was dishonored, she survived through it all. Now, when we watch some movie or something like that, we might see Krishna smiling and Krishna raising his hand, and from his hand, the endless garment is coming.

But actually there, nobody saw Krishna. Somehow, her garment seemed to have become mysteriously inexhaustible. And people thought, oh, because she's so chaste, her chastity led to some mystical intervention or some mystical power by which she's been protected.

But later on, Krishna came to the forest to meet her. After all this had happened, so at that time, Draupadi broke down. She said, Krishna, I am your friend, I am your relative, I am your devotee.

I called you for help. I deserve your protection. Why did you not come? Now, Krishna does not become judgmental.

My plan is perfect. How dare you question my plan? That was not the plan that Krishna took. Krishna said, after the Surya Yagya got over, I had no idea that there was going to be this gambling match.

If I had been there, I would not have let the match happen. And he said, after that, I had to leave immediately because there was a demon named Shalva who attacked Dwarka. Krishna had arranged Dwarka in such a way that it was like an island.

So it was difficult for anyone to attack. But Shalva had got, by the blessings of Lord Shiva, he had got a plane-like object with which he attacked Krishna. So Krishna said, I had to go there to defend Dwarka.

And the fight is described for 90 days. Very fierce fight, almost 90 days. Krishna said, after I stopped, after I defeated him, as soon as I came to know what has happened, I have immediately come to the forest to meet you.

And I have heard from Panchali that when everyone there lost their sense of dharma, you did not. So your conduct then was laudable. Those who have caused tears, they will suffer for their actions.

They will be punished. He reassured her. He did not get angry with her for her questioning what Krishna said.

So in our life, we can have many different kinds of emotions. And as devotees, that is, we may feel disappointed that we tried to do something for Krishna and that didn't work out. We may expect Krishna to help and Krishna, that doesn't work out.

So there is a difference between complaining to Krishna and complaining about Krishna. A devotee in a personal relationship with Krishna may open one's heart and express to Krishna, Krishna, I wanted this to happen, I tried this so much, didn't work out, I am very disappointed. But complaining about Krishna means a devotee goes and tells everyone else, Krishna doesn't fulfill his promises, don't worship Krishna.

That we won't do. Just like in any cultured family, we don't wash our dirty linen in public. Even if the husband and wife have some fight, they don't fight in front of their children.

So it's not that there cannot be any fight. Each one of us is an individual. Each one of us is different.

And there will always be differences because of that. But there is a way in which that kind of differences are addressed. So the point is that even in our relationship with Krishna, it is not that we have to suppress our emotions.

So our relationship with Krishna is big enough. Our relationship with Krishna is big enough to accommodate even negative, sinning emotions. In any close relationship we may have, sometimes the other person may have a bad moment and that person may yell or that person may behave inappropriately.

And we understand that. Everybody, life is difficult. Everybody sometimes can be provoked by life.

Ideally we should not get provoked. But if somebody gets provoked, it is not that we hold that against the other person all the time. We understand.

So Krishna also understands. Just like a baby sometimes kicks the mother. Like the baby kicks the mother, the mother doesn't get angry and kick the baby back.

The baby may not even be aware of what I am doing. Now if the baby grows up and is like a 25 year old adult and then the adult kicks the mother. That would be a completely different level.

That would not be acceptable. But the idea is that Krishna, even if sometimes the devotee feels hurt, the devotee feels abandoned, the devotee feels betrayed, the devotee never knows Krishna. I was explaining this in the Radha Ashtami class also.

How the gopis feel angry with Krishna. How could you abandon us? We left everything and at night I came to you to be with you and you just left us alone. Katibidastava utgita mohikaha Gita vayoshita Kaskya chintanshi The gopis are actually outlining the reason.

They said, all our family members are opposing us. Still somehow we came. Patisutanvaya vratrbandhavan atimilangate By somehow getting over all those obstacles, we came in spite of the opposition of our family.

Where did we come? Antyachutagataha We came deep into this forest. And why did we come? Katibidastava utgita mohikaha It was because you played a flute and called me. Now it's interesting the way they have filled the flute.

Normally if there is a kirtan program and at the end of kirtan someone is not attended. I ask, how was the kirtan? He says, it was loud. Well, is that a compliment or a criticism? Loud we will say, not as a compliment.

The gopis are saying, your flute was utgita. It was loud. So here they are saying loudness, not in the sense of harshness or lack of sweetness.

They are saying that the call was so loud that we couldn't hear anything. Your call was so riveting. Like a mother of a newborn baby is doing some work in the kitchen and the baby is sleeping on the bed in the next room.

Then what happens is, even a little bit whimper from the baby, a little rustle from the body, the mother hears that. Because there is so much love and emotion invested over there. So they are saying, Krishna, we overcame so many obstacles and came to you.

Why? Because you called us. And then she says, we are Yoshita, we are women and we have come at night in a dark forest. So five years they are doing it.

They say, Kastya Jain, how could you abandon us? So they question Krishna politely, but still they are strongly. They question Krishna. So in Bhakti, if we are serious about our Bhakti, it's not about suppressing our emotions.

So when we talk about emotions, there are two extremes with respect to emotions. One is, we suppress our emotions. The other is, we express our emotions.

When we consider an ordinary relationship, if we feel angry towards someone, now if we suppress our emotion, that anger, what is going to happen is, it will stay on and stay on, it will make us burn. And then it will explode. If we suppress the anger, we will burn.

But if we express the anger, the other person will burn. So in between these two is, that we process the anger. We don't just suppress it, we don't just express it, we learn to process it.

To process it means, maybe we write down a journal, we talk to the third person who understands us, with whom we calm down, or we just wait for some time to pass, as she gains some perspective, and then we deal with it. So for us, this process applies also, we process the emotions, even in Bhakti. So it's not that, when something is important for us, and for Krishna, there is always a temporary, why are you bothering about it? Krishna is not heartless, or Krishna is not indifferent to what is important.

It's like if there is a small child who is playing with a toy, and the toy breaks. Now, the child starts crying. Now, is the mother uncaring about the child's crying? No.

It's not that, because the child is crying, the mother doesn't start crying. It's not that the mother should start crying at that time. But the mother understands the child's emotions.

So, now, of course, the mother also wants the child to grow up, to understand, okay, this is not that important. But at that stage of the development of the child, the toy is a very important thing. And the breaking of the toy is quite a scary, painful thing for the child.

The mother wants to understand that. So, moving on, our topic was, does what matters to me matter to Krishna? So, let's consider it from one perspective. We have, if we are here, we have our spiritual side, and we have our material side.

Now, our material side is often what matters to us. Material side means our health is there, our financial stability is there, our relationships are there, our social environment is there, our social respect and media reputation are there. So many things in the material side.

They matter to us. Now, our spiritual side will be, if you consider material side, it will include our health, wealth, all those things. Now, in the spiritual side, it's our attraction to Krishna.

It's our spiritual practices. Attraction to Krishna could be called internal. Spiritual practices are what we are doing.

So, now, if we consider from Krishna's perspective, from our perspective, if we consider, both are important, but quite often, this will be more important for us. Now, from Krishna's perspective, which do you think is more important for Krishna? Yes, our spiritual practices are more important. But is our material side important for Krishna or not important? Yes, it is also important.

It may not be more important, it may not be the most important thing. But, it is also important for Krishna. So, Krishna cares for the things that we care for.

And in this context, when we use the word material side, I'll make two points. And then, as I mentioned, when he said that, I'll keep time for question and answers, that was not just for your information, that was also for my instruction. So, maybe I should keep time.

So, I'll keep time. I'll make two distinct points over here. When we use the word material, in some ways, we can say this is the spiritual side and this is the material side.

Of course, spiritual is ultimately bigger. But for us, the material seems bigger. And we may classify as spiritual and material.

And this is a valid classification. But at the same time, it may not be the most relevant or useful classification for us. Because, even within the material, within the material, we can have, this is spiritual, this is material.

Now, within the material, we can have sattva, rajas and tamas. Sattva, rajas and tamas. And, there is a big difference.

Say, if somebody is praying to God, somebody is alcoholic and they don't have money to buy a bottle of alcohol. And they go to a bar and they pray, Oh God, let some other alcoholic be in a generous mood today. And I can get a bar.

I can get to drink something. That is also a prayer. And say, somebody's child is maybe fallen very sick and there is a critical surgery going on.

And they are praying, Oh Krishna, please let my child survive. Let my child be. Now, can you equate both these prayers? I have to say that both of them are material.

It's actually very superficial way of looking at it. Yes, they may not be necessarily praying for the body of the child. But, no, this is broadly within the boundary of dharma.

As a parent, you take care of such a child. So, broadly, sattva is often pro-devotional. Rajas can be often non-devotional.

Non-devotional means that it is largely saying how much money I have earned, how much prestige I have. These are not necessarily immediately anti-devotional. Tamas will be anti-devotional.

So, understanding this difference is very helpful that if somebody cares a lot for tamasic things, Krishna will not care for those things. Krishna may say, better you become detached from those things. But sattvic things, they are important and Krishna is careful.

They are part of our dharma. We have to do those things. So, sometimes this difference between material and spiritual, it can be very artificial.

The material-spiritual difference, it can be understood in two different ways. One way to understand it is in terms of the composition. Composition means what something is made of.

And the second is in terms of application. So, composition and application. So, for example, this mic, is it material or spiritual? It is material.

Prabhupada would say, when we are using it, for speaking about Krishna, then it becomes spiritualized. So, in terms of composition, we can look at something, in terms of application, we can look at something. So, if an object, like a physical object, like a mic, can be spiritualized, then can our desires not be spiritualized? Somebody may want wealth, or their idea may be that, okay, if I have more financial stability, or I have more financial flexibility, then I can practice bhakti better.

Now, will that actually happen? Well, it depends. Sometimes, we may get money and everything. Okay, thank you, Krishna.

Bye-bye. So, that is also a possibility. But that's not a necessity, that's not an inevitability.

So, we may need things, so we could say that we may need material things for serving Krishna. And those things are not necessarily anti-Krishna. But, depending on how we use them, somebody can become infatuated by wealth, somebody can become infatuated by power, somebody can become infatuated by prestige.

And then, they may go away from Krishna. That is possible. But it is not necessary that they have to do that.

So, in our life when we function, what is important is, that rather than separating the material and the spiritual, we make sure that we focus on how am I using this in Krishna's service. So, if we see our child as Krishna's child, and then, we pray for a child's well-being, then, that is, that can be broadly included within the ambit of bhakti. Jeeva Swamiji Sandarbha has called this as our opposite of bhakti.

I won't go into the technicalities at this point. But the point is, that bhakti is not just a small set of activities or, you know, how we do our puja, how we do our japa. Our whole life can be done in a mood of devotion.

And, when we are acting in this way, that is it possible, so, you can say, things in sattva and rajas, they are artha. Artha can be values, artha can be our relationships, artha can be various material valuables. So, ideally speaking, we can go in towards two extremes.

There is artha, and there is paramartha. So, rather than differentiating between things as material and spiritual, we can differentiate as artha and as paramartha. So, wealth is artha, reputation is artha, health is artha.

These are all things of wealth. Now, the two extremes would be that we value only artha. And for the sake of artha, we forget paramartha.

That is not healthy. On the other hand, if somebody values only paramartha, and neglects artha. Now, there are a few saints who do that, but that is not the normal way people are supposed to function.

See, Prahlad was in a situation where he just could not do anything at that particular time. And therefore, he accepted that whatever happens, whatever Krishna is your will, I'll accept it. So, but, is that the standard way everyone practices bhakti? The way Prahlad practiced bhakti, is that the way Arjuna practiced bhakti? No, Arjuna thought of bhakti.

So, the normal sustainable way is that we have artha for paramartha. We use artha for paramartha. So, Arjuna worked very hard to develop his archery skills.

He developed his archery skills and used those in the service of the Lord. So, we know that incident when Drona was testing his students and he asked them all, what do you see on the top of the tree? So, what did Arjuna say? Eye. I see only the eye of the bird.

Now, Arjuna did not say, I see Krishna over there. Isn't it? No, why not? You see Krishna everywhere. That is true.

But actually speaking, what happens is, when we are doing something in this world, we need to do that responsibly. And in that particular context, the remembrance of Krishna was that, okay, my archery skill, I will use for Krishna's service. So, most of the times when we function, we use Artha for Paramahamsa.

Suppose, we have a program at our home and we have to cook Prasad. And we are not very good at cooking. And we are cooking an item which we have never cooked.

So, we do it in a very devotional way. We pray to Krishna. We have nice kirtan going on.

And there is a nice picture of Radharani. Radharani's kitchen. And we cook that food.

We offer it to Krishna. Now, Krishna will be pleased with it. And only Krishna will be pleased.

In this world, Artha is also important. We need that particular skin to do that thing. Suppose, we get a heart attack.

And say, there are two doctors. One is a devotee doctor and another is not a devotee doctor. Now, which doctor will we go to? Whichever is a better doctor.

If you are a competent doctor, if you go to the devotee doctor, you know, we have to do a heart surgery. I promise you, while doing heart surgery, I will be chanting Hare Krishna. Will you do the surgery properly? I can't guarantee that.

But I will chant Hare Krishna. I want to go back to Krishna, but not so soon. What do you mean, good to have good Jagore and good Surya? Definitely.

My point is that ideally, if you have both, it's excellent. We have a hospital in Mumbai, we call it Vakhtiyan Hospital. It's run by devotees.

There, in the operation theatre, we have a picture of Narasimhadev. You know, ripping apart the belly of Hiranyakashipu. So, in the early days, when a patient had come, that is a place also where there are people from other religions in Mumbai also stay.

One person came, what is this? He said, this is the original operation. So, what happened? This is operation successful, patient liberated. So now, the idea is that for all of us, when we function, Artha is also important.

So, should we seek Artha? Yes. We seek Artha, so that we can use it for Parmartha. The test here would be that our desire for Artha should not become greater than our desire for Parmartha.

We can desire Artha, there is nothing wrong in desiring Artha. Somebody will say, I want wealth, so that I can have a big house, we can have big satsang programs, I can have a big altar for Krishna. That's fine.

But, somebody says, okay, because I want to build a big house, so that's why, right now, I have no time to go to the temple. I have no time to come for satsang. I have no time to do Pooja.

Then what will happen is, then, yes, you may say, I want to do this for Krishna, but the desire for doing it for Krishna also has to be sustained. It will not be sustained if you are just mixing with multiplicity of people and you are not nurturing their desire. So, we can have a desire for Artha, but that desire for Artha should not overshadow our desire for Parmartha.

So, that way when we function, then, we won't be too, we won't be neglectful of our, what we may call as a material side, but we are neglectful of Artha, but we won't become completely infatuated by Artha also. And one last point I'll make, that, see, Bhakti, sometimes we talk about pure devotional service. Pure devotional service means you should never pray to Krishna for any material.

Yes, that is true. But at the same time, it is Bhakti, it's in steps. Krishna talks about it in multiple places.

He talks about it from 12.8 to 11 in the Bhagavad Gita. In the Bhagavatam also there are places where he talks about it. So, we could say, first, for many people there is service.

Then there is devotional service. And then there will be pure devotional service. So, we cannot jump to pure devotional service right in the beginning.

And you force somebody to jump to that level, it will be very artificial. Ultimately, Bhakti is about developing a real relationship with Krishna. A real relationship with Krishna means what? That in any real, serious, close relationship, when something is burning our heart, we do express our heart to Krishna.

We express our heart to the other person. And sometimes, if a child is small, the parents may have some financial anxiety, some social anxiety. They may not tell.

And that's understood. But when the child grows up, the child has become a young adult, and the parents don't tell. That will create a barrier between them.

Say, the husband comes from work and the husband is very stressed. What's the matter? There are many things I quote in my life, I can't tell you. Really? Say, the wife is upset from work and she comes and, what's wrong? I can't tell you what's wrong.

Well, if we don't share our heart, then there is going to be a barrier that is going to be created. Now, of course, what to share, how well to share, all those things have to be appropriately decided. But, it's important that, in seeking purity in our relationship, purity means, Krishna, my concern is only to serve you.

Yes, we want purity, but sometimes what happens is, if we are at this level, we are just doing some seva. And we try to jump to pure devotional service. But what happens? That seems too high, and instead of going up, we end up going down.

We go away from Krishna. That, if something is burdening our heart, praying to Krishna about it, is not a wrong thing at all. Anyabhilasha shunyam and Anyabhilashita shunyam.

A devotee does not make the basis of the relationship with Krishna, constantly asking Krishna, give me this, give me that, give me that. So, Anyabhilasha is, Anyabhilashita is, the inclination, the tendency to keep asking Krishna, Krishna give me this, Krishna give me that, Krishna give me that. No, a devotee focuses on doing one's dharma, but when there are certain serious situations in our life, we can always open our heart and pray to Krishna.

So, when Draupadi was being disrobed, she is praying to Krishna for help. Now, is she seeking material help or spiritual help? Material. The question is in material.

And that, in such an emergency situation, she has enough faith to call out to Krishna, to depend on Krishna, that is knowable over there. So, to call it as material is actually trivializing the whole situation. It's an emergency and what will a devotee do if not call out to Krishna in such a situation? So, we don't have to differentiate.

If something is very, very important for us, in the name of maintaining a pure emotional attitude, I'll not ask Krishna for anything. No, we can ask Krishna if that is important for us. At the same time, we can make the prayer a prayer of submission.

Krishna, I feel this is very important for me if this works out. And this is the reason I think this was important. Please let this happen.

And if this is not meant to happen, then please guide me how I should move ahead in my life. How do you want me to settle? So, we are using our intelligence to find a path towards Krishna. But, if this is not the path Krishna wants us to take, then we are selfless.

Krishna, how do you want me to move ahead? So, when we have that attitude, then we find that even if that particular situation is not resolved in the way we wanted it to be, but still, we will come closer to Krishna. We'll come closer to Krishna means what will happen is, sometimes if we have some problem and we have a counselor, a mentor, we talk with them over the phone. Then, maybe there's no immediate solution to it, but just that we get to talk with them, that unburdens our heart and that if they listen to us, then what happens is we come closer to them.

So, that when we pray to Krishna, pray to Krishna about some Artham, something that is important for us. So, how can we do that so that our emotions are not choked? That first step is that we try to express why is it so important for us. That means why is it so important for us? We try to express that means we try to tell Krishna how this Artham can help us in Paramarth.

Krishna, I want this for you. If say we lost our job and we are worried about that. If we have a family, if our health is going down, if somebody wants to get married and they're not finding a partner.

These are important things in life. So, how we think that Artham will help us in the pursuit of Paramarth, based on that we can express Artham. After expressing, expressing is after that is accepting.

So, the key thing is having desire is not a problem. It is just having desire does not make our Bhakti contaminated. It is not intra-problem.

The problem is sometimes we have desire and from that desire becomes a demand. And then that demand becomes an ultimatum. Krishna, if you don't do this, then I'll stop chanting.

If you don't do this, I'll never come to your temple again. So, a devotee never makes an ultimatum to Krishna. So, we express and then we are accepting Krishna's will.

Krishna, if this is not meant to happen, I accept it. But then thirdly, what we do is we seek guidance. Okay, Krishna, this is not the way you want me to move ahead.

How do you want me to move ahead? So, if you see, I don't have time to analyze this. If you look at Markini Bhagavad Dharma, the prayer which the Prabhupada offers, there is this sequence in that and Bhupada says that he is expressing his desire that I am going to speak the Bhagavatam. Please, make this Bhagavatam, the message that I am speaking, understandable to him.

So, Prabhupada is not just going blindly on faith. There is faith, but Prabhupada has a strategy. He says, I have the faith that Krishna he says that here Bhagavat tera katha se tab avatar dheera huya shuna jyoti kane baar baar.

That Bhagavat is actually your avatar. And he is making very specific prayer, Krishna please make my words understandable to them. Then, after saying this, then what Prabhupada is offering, he is saying, Krishna, if it is your will, it will happen.

If it is not, it will not. And then finally he says, nachao nachao prabhu nachao sinnate Krishna, Prabhu, Krishna, please make me dance, make me dance. As you want to make me dance, make me dance.

So, there is surrender. But the surrender is not thoughtless surrender. It is not helpless surrender in the sense that I can't do anything, so whatever you tell me, I will do it.

No, Krishna has given us intelligence, we use intelligence. Krishna has given us some arthar, we use that arthar. So, in that way, the things that matter to us, they do matter to Krishna.

But for us, Krishna should matter more than the things that matter to us. That is the test of our purity in bhakti. And I will summarize what we discussed today.

We talked about broadly an emotionally healthy bhakti we can say. We talked about emotionally healthy spirituality in general. But here, today's topic in bhakti specifically, how can it be emotionally healthy? I talk about three broad points.

First, I started by talking about how in our relationship with Krishna that there are things that are important for us. Are they important for Krishna? So, for us, we discussed how the material spiritual difference we make. For us, say the material may be more important and the spiritual may be less important.

For Krishna, the spiritual is more important and the material is less important. But still, material is also important for Krishna. So, this is one way we can look at it.

But the material spiritual difference, we can make it by composition or we can make it by application. So, what is material and what is spiritual? This is actually the second point I discussed. Then I will tell you first.

Let me discuss how we can differentiate things as spiritual and material or we can differentiate as spiritual and within the material, there is sattva, rajas and tamas. So, this is a more complete differentiation. Sattva is pro-devotional, rajas is non-devotional and tamas is anti-devotional.

So, this can help us move closer towards Krishna. This will take us away from Krishna. This depends on how we use it.

So, we talk about this concept of artha and paramarthan. So, artha, we get infatuated by it. That is not healthy.

We become neglectful of it. That is also not healthy. What we do is, we use for paramarthan.

Arjuna had archery ability. He developed that ability and he used it for Krishna's service. So, before that, the point I discussed was how when we approach God, the spirituality can be unhealthy.

We are approaching at the level of fear that is in tamas, desire, beauty and love. When we want to get to the level of love, so, how we approach God. But when we have, when we are approaching at the level of fear, what may happen is, we may have a negative conception.

So, we don't want to suppress our emotions, nor do we want to simply express our emotions. We want to process our emotions. So, overall, just like we have elder figure in our life, we be respectful.

But respect does not mean that there are no other emotions in the relationship. In a real relationship, there will be many different emotions will be there. We discussed how Draupadi even questioned Krishna.

Why were you not there for me? There will be a foundation, there is love, there is respect. Those are big emotions within it. But along with that, there can be anger that can come.

There can be fear that can come. There can be fear, astonishment. All these other emotions can also come up.

Excitement, astonishment. So, this is nature of our relationship with Krishna. And finally, I talked about how when we are practicing bhakti, what do we do? We want to get to the level of from service to devotional service.

By service, what do I mean? Like some people come, they just like to do some volunteer work. They like to serve some prasad, clean something and do something. They don't really consider this for Krishna.

They might do it anywhere. But then they start doing it for Krishna. So, we cannot jump to pure devotional service very easily.

If we force ourselves to jump, we may end up actually going down. We feel disconnected from Krishna. So, if we desire Artha, that is okay.

Nothing intrinsically wrong in it. But what we should make sure is, the desire for Artha is not greater than the desire for Paramartha. So, our desire never becomes a demand or an ultimatum.

So, it is that Krishna, I am surrendered to you. In this way, what will happen is, we express our desire, then we accept what Krishna does. At the same time, we seek guidance.

So, we express our desire. In this way, we will even if that particular thing does not work out, we will be able to feel more connected with Krishna. And this is what Prabhupada does broadly in his prayer, Malkile Bhagavad Dharam.

In this way, we can have an emotionally healthy and rich relationship with Krishna in our life. Thank you very much. Are there any questions or comments? Yesterday, I think, we had discussed the question.

Injustice? No, this is Malkile Bhagavad Dharam. Hare Krishna. Thank you, Prabhupada.

We will wrap it up. Coming to the question yesterday, we were saying about, if you are tolerant all the time, people may see that as a weakness and take advantage of you. The more you are tolerating, the more people will question how to deal with that.

So, if we tolerate, people can start seeing it as weakness. Yes, that's definitely possible. That's why tolerance is not a virtue in isolation.

Tolerance is for a purpose. When does it become weakness? Basically, we let even big things become small. So, we have to decide which are the things which are important for me.

And for those, I will be ready to fight. Tolerance enables us to choose our battles. But tolerance is not about never fighting any battles.

That is not going to happen in this world. It's like when we function in Krishna talks about 8.7. Mam, Anusmara, Vidhya Chaya. So, Anusmara is inner remembrance.

Vidhya Chaya is the outer fighting. So, in one sense, we could say as devotees, for us internally, we want to have Vrindavan. But externally, we are offering Kurukshetra.

So, now, what should not happen is, if we think it will be 100% Vrindavan, if we expect it to be 100% Vrindavan, that we are in for a rude shock. Realize it's not like that. Sometimes we can get exploited, we can get abused, we can become manipulated.

We start thinking that, everything is wonderful over here. Everything is wonderful in the sense that ultimately, we are pursuing a wonderful goal. But on the other hand, if it becomes 100% Kurukshetra, that will make us very bitter.

Because if we are constantly in a fighting mood, then the devotional mood will become lost. So, it is like, we have to basically, it is situational. So, as devotees, we have to be able to maintain both.

And Srila Prabhupada, for example, was in Vrindavan. And in many ways, when he went abroad, it was a battlefield. There were devotees who were struggling with their internal conditioning.

There were devotees who were leading various projects, they sometimes made mistakes. And he had to deal with all those things. So, it was like Kurukshetra.

But Prabhupada never lost that mood. Ultimately, he was grounded in Vrindavan. He was in that Vrindavan consciousness of wanting to serve.

So, I think it is choosing our battles. And it becomes, now, can it be that it is weakness? Well, some people will always think of it as weakness. Because some people will be that, they may want us to fight any and every fight.

And I suppose, we are answering a question. And we may answer in a non-confrontational way. And somebody may say, you should have confronted at that particular time.

But, it depends. I was once invited to Ganesh Pooja festival. Now, it is important that we also understand the Shikal Path.

The only country in the world where it is called officially banned is Singapore. And in Singapore, actually, we have Hinduism is a recognized religion. But, what happened? Initially, when our western devotees, they went to Singapore, local Hindus welcomed them.

And they organized big programs for them. And Indian expatriates have gone there many generations before also. So, there was Shiva temple, Durga temple, Muruga temple, Ayyappa temple.

They organized programs. And in those temples, the devotees criticized their inter-worship. They said, those who worship Hindus are less intelligent.

And it just led to so much disruption. Finally, some of these Hindus wanted to tell them, this is a disruptive group and we don't want it. They are not actually Hindus.

And because of that complaint, we got banned. This happened 30-40 years ago. Still, we are trying to get over it.

So, now, if we are going to that kind of program where somebody else has organized the program for us. It's not our fault. If somebody asks about Lord Shiva, or somebody asks about Lord Ganesh, we should speak their glories in a devotionally compatible way.

But we don't have to necessarily minimize their positions anyway. So, we have to choose our matches. So, if somebody may say, it's weakness.

Oh, you should have spoken about Krishna as the Supreme Personality of God. Okay. See, what happens in the general Hindu community, nobody is opposed to the idea that Krishna is God.

What people oppose is, only Krishna is God. Now, there is a difference and there is a place to express the difference. But that place doesn't have to be everywhere.

So, tolerance becomes weakness when we never choose to face any battle only. So, if in our programs, in our Swan Temple or in Satsang program in our home with many devotees present, if somebody comes and says, Okay, my Guru is God. Then, we don't want to criticize anyone.

But we have a duty at that particular point to clarify, you know, that Bhagawan has six opulences and we have to clarify. But, if we are invited to some program organized by some other organization and there we are asked to speak and there they have the picture of the Guru and we are asked to do some Aarti over there or something like that. Now, either we should not go there or if we go there, we have to act in a way that is appropriate to the expectation of that Guru.

So, I am talking about the example of choosing our battles. So, tolerance is not about never fighting a battle. It is about choosing our battles.

So, just on that point, just like Mahatma Gandhi, he tried to use Ahimsa to get rid of the partition. That made the Indians only frustrated and he died a violent death. So, let's take that as a case study.

Sorry, I am just extending the question. Yeah, you know, when I started my international tour, I asked my spiritual master Radhamaharaj for his blessings and guidance. So, he said that be very careful about planted questions.

I said, what did he mean by that? He said, somebody will deliberately ask you a question to get you into trouble. Yeah, that's a good example. See, it's not a planted question.

In some form it can be. But see, the problem is, there are two distinct things over here. If you look at the Gita, I believe it's 1841 and 1842.

1841 is the characteristics of Brahmanas. Shamo damas tapasya uchyam, shantir arja vamey uchyam. Shanti can be peacefulness, it can be forgiveness, which actually leads to peacefulness.

But Kshatriya quality is described as heroism, and all those are described. One is, that don't flinch or flee from a fight. So, these are actually not just differing, but opposing virtues.

Brahmana is, forgive, be peaceful, don't fight. Kshatriya is, don't run from a fight. Don't even flinch when there is a fight.

If it's required, fight. So, these are very different values. So, forgiveness, non-violence, tolerance, these are all, they are very good as individual virtues.

Each one of us in our relationships can become benefited by having non-violence, tolerance, forgiveness, all of these. At the same time, none of these can be a social or a governmental policy. It happened actually in California during the pandemic.

They said, people are so poor and people don't have money. So, they made a rule that if anybody breaks into a supermarket and steals everything below $750, they will not even be arrested. And then, what happened? You know, people just started breaking into the supermarkets and started stealing.

And it's not like they were stealing bread and stuff like that. They would actually, they would look at the price tag. Louis Vuitton purses which are less than $750 and they would sell them on eBay and stuff like that.

So, we cannot make forgiveness a state policy. So, Krishna is telling Arjuna that you are a warrior. You are a warrior and you have to fight.

So, as an individual, you can forgive. But when you are representing the state, you cannot forgive. There also, forgiveness is there.

It's more officially called as pardon. But then, that is an exception. That is not the norm.

So, now, with respect to Vandeji, actually if you go into a little bit of history, as a tactic, as a strategy, non-violence was a sound strategy. Because what happened? In America, most of us know that guns, possessing guns is a big right. And the reason for that is when the American revolutionaries were about to they rose in rebellion against the British government.

There was a place in Luxembourg or something like that where the British had kept all their gunpowder. And both the British troops were trying to reach there and the American band of revolutionaries were trying to reach there. And somehow a storm came and whatever happened in that Americans were able to reach there.

And because they got that gun gunpowder and they had guns, they made guns, that's what tilted the world in that way. Otherwise, there was no chance they could have won. So, after that both the British and the Americans learned different lessons.

The Americans learned a lesson that it should be our right to have guns. And they don't want guns to fight against thieves. They said we should have guns to fight against the government.

Ordinary citizens should have guns strong enough that if the government becomes tyrannical, we can teach them a lesson. So, that's quite a different way of looking at the world. But the lesson that the British learned is that the colonized people we should never give them access to weapons.

And that's why in India, the Indian revolutionaries, they just had no access to guns. So, for them to mount an armed rebellion against the British was impossible. And that's why strategically, it was a good strategy.

But eventually I think Achille was the Prime Minister of India. He wrote a memoir and he said that what forced us to leave was not a non-violent struggle. Two things, the Second World War which just demolished British power and second was Subhash Chandra Bose's Indian National Army.

And they raised a rebellion against us. So, how effective was it? It's a sound strategy. Prabhupada also says that in the second chapter that non-violence can be a strategy.

But it's not a principal function. And also, see what happened? The British also had some level of conscience. Jesus had said that if somebody slaps you turn the other cheek.

So, when Gandhi did that, he was non-violent. Like for them something in their own heart, this person is actually embodying a Christian value more than us. So, that also had an effect.

So, when he was about to pass to death, Jesus had passed away for 40 days, they would somehow give some concessions and try to adjust. But, when the Muslims were going on the riots and Muslims were demanding partition, there is nothing like that in the Islamic tradition. When Gandhi said I'll pass to death, Muslims said, okay, pass.

We don't care. So, this is not a criticism of Islam. I am saying that each religion comes from a particular historical context.

So, non-violence to whatever extent it works, it was because of social, political and cultural and religious factors. So, non-violence cannot be made into an absolute principle. It will just never work.

Good point. Thank you. I have a question regarding, you know, when Eklavya taken Brahmacharya without knowing that as a guru, it's said that he did not write who should be like, there should be a relation and the guru should accept the shishya first.

So, is it like we should be having a relation with guru, whether it is a shiksha guru or initiative guru or no, it's like it's like if someone is giving the spiritual knowledge, you don't need any particular relation, you should be grabbing that from that person. So, in the Eklavya relationship, is it that Eklavya, he was wrong in seeking knowledge from Drona and Drona was not giving. So, for us also it's spiritual knowledge.

If somebody gives spiritual knowledge, it should be accepted or only when we take bhiksha can we accept the knowledge. I think wherever knowledge we get, we should accept it, we should value it, we can apply it in our lives. In the Bhagavatam, there is a concept of 24 gurus and that is, there is an observant student, this brahmana, he learns even from the sky and the clouds and the river and the trees.

So, he is not even teaching anything but he is observing and he learns. So, we should learn from wherever we can gain knowledge. I think Eklavya, it's a complicated story but two main issues were specifically when Krishna talks about guna and karma.

These words can be understood in different ways. Now, karma is competence. How good a person does something.

Guna can mean different things. One meaning is character. So, in the case of Eklavya, what Drona observed was that he definitely had the skill to become an archer but a Kshatriya should be a protector not an exploiter, not an abuser, not a destroyer.

So, in that case, he told him that you should not learn archery, I don't want to teach you archery. So, if the Guru has specifically told us, don't do something, then doing that it is at least some degree a problem. But the bigger problem was something second.

He made an effigy of Drona and he, because you could say he was devoted to Drona, that's how he was worshipping Drona, but he was also claiming that Drona is my Guru. So, if the Guru has given some instruction and you don't follow that instruction and then you claim this person is my Guru, then that is where it becomes a problem. So, Eklavya's case is a bit complicated and when Drona asked him for his thumb, it was externally impressing me that he was threatened that Arjuna may not be the best archer, Eklavya will become the best archer.

That's one way of looking at it. There is some validity to that. But if you look at it, if Dronacharya was so insecure, then why did he teach Dhristadyumna who was destined to kill him? Dhristadyumna or Drupada's son? He was born to kill him.

He taught him also. So, it's not that simple. The understanding over there is he felt that he was belonging to, he had his academy, his Gurukul was arranged for by the Kuru dynasty and Eklavya belonged to a group, a community called the Nishadas and they were often engaged in disruptive, destructive insurgency kind of activities troubling the Kuru kingdom.

So naturally, there is an Indian national army and somebody who is an Axonite and who is blowing up India's soldiers. That person said, I won't train you over there. At least question, can such a person be trained? So, he said, I cannot teach you.

And then, he saw that he had learned. He said, if you are taking credit, then he asked him for his time. So, by that what happened was that, he was still a primitive archer, but he was not that deadly an archer.

But eventually, still he went and joined Jarasandh's army and then in one of the wars with Jarasandh, they attacked Mathura. Krishna killed Eklavya at this time in the Mahabharata. So, that is, it's a complex story.

But regarding our point, wherever we get such a knowledge, we should take. And we should learn. Especially, if we can take it in Sampradaya, from a Guru who comes in Sampradaya, whether Diksha Guru, Shiksha Guru, that's wonderful.

And we take Diksha, that is more like a formalization of our commitment to learning and applying and growing thereby. I have one more question, Prabhuji, regarding that Draupadi Chidhan. You mentioned that Krishna, when Draupadi is opening her heart to Krishna, Krishna said that no, I don't know that this thing is happening.

Is that, we say like, it's a Leela part that Krishna is saying this thing or is some like, it's really not Leela. Of course, it's Leela. When Krishna says that I didn't know what was happening over here.

So, this Krishna will not know. Krishna, when he descends to the world, when he comes as an Avatar, he often acts like a human being. Sometimes, he will act like an omnipotent being, but not always.

Yesterday, I was just telling the story about how Maricha conspired to take Sita. So, I was telling the story in America. And one boy asked me this question that when Maricha called out with his dying breath, last very long, Hey Lakshman, Hey Sita, why did Ram not call out? That's not me, that's Maricha.

The whole problem could have been avoided. So, the point is that Lord Ram is playing a Nara Leela. And when you talk about Nara Leela, what happens is we humans are actually from a moral perspective, the Devatas are higher than Manavas, and the Asuras are lower than Manavas.

But, from a physical perspective, in terms of strength, the humans are lower. And Asuras are actually higher than Manavas. And the Devatas are also higher, they are slightly higher.

So, Maricha was Asura. So, his voice was much louder. And Lord Ram as a Manava, his voice was smaller.

So, he could not, his voice would not reach. That's why he immediately turned to check that whether Maricha is dead and Asura is dead. He charged back and ran back.

So, generally the Lord acts within human limitations. He doesn't have to act, but the whole point of Leela is that he often acts within human limitations. And that's how the Leela can happen.

Otherwise, you know, many times if Krishna knows everything, then there is nothing, there is no suspense, there is nothing impossible. And then there is no scope for even a story over there. So, yes, it's a Leela, basically.

Leela basically means that the Lord is omnipotent, chooses for some purpose, for some time to conceal his omnipotence. He is all-knowing, he is all- doing, complete strength, supreme knowledge, he decreases that. And is there any karma involved in Draupadi's Chidharan, that why she faced this? Is there karma involved in Draupadi's Chidharan? See, generally it's a very important question.

When some adversity, something tragic, some adversity or some tragedy happens to someone, it's extremely important what we focus on at that time. At that time, our focus should be on our Dharma, not on their karma. Because if we start doing that, we will become very cold-hearted.

That when something bad has happened, in general, Krishna does not give a flashback to Draupadi to say, why this happened? Bhagavata's mood is also not like that. Arjuna has to fight against Bhishma and Krishna does not tell them. Krishna says, I know past, I know future, I know your past life also.

But Krishna still doesn't say that, you know, Bhishma was so-and-so that life and I was so, you were so-and-so and you did this and you did this. That's why we have to fight. So, in general, we don't, when something bad has happened to someone, that person may subjectively say that, I don't know what karma I have done because of this is happening.

It's probably my own past karma. But others should never say that. Because others' focus should be on our Dharma.

If somebody's house is robbed and they go to the police, the police say, it's your own karma it got robbed. Well, it is your Dharma to protect. That's your job, that's your duty.

And where do we stop this then? Isn't it, you know? If a mother has a newborn baby and the baby is crying and the mother goes to comfort the baby. Don't comfort the baby. The baby is crying because of her own past karma.

You know, we become monstrously insensitive that way. So, when somebody is suffering, I haven't seen any example in scripture where somebody else tells them, it's your own karma. That person may feel like that.

But at that time when somebody is suffering, the focus should always be on what is our Dharma. So, neither in the case of Draupadi nor in the case of Sita, nobody tells, you know, you must have done some karma because of which this happened to you. That may be the truth, but that is never the focus.

The focus is on what we can do to help address the situation. In general, the principle of karma, it's focus is not so much judgment as it is encouragement. Judgment means what? That you have done something and that's why you are suffering.

The truth to that, but encouragement means what? That our actions matter. Our choices matter. Our karma will have a falla in the immediate future or the rest of the future.

But sometimes, when we are going through a negative phase, our karma may not show any falla. Like, I may be kind to someone and that person may still be constantly unkind to me. And I may start thinking, what is the use of being kind? But no, in that particular relationship kindness may not have any result.

But if I learn to be kind, that will be valued elsewhere. So in that sense, it is always good to have that positive attitude. Thank you.

Thank you so much. A wonderful class as always and a beautiful series of three classes on this wonderful topic. And very nice insights.

I could not come on the three classes physically but I was there online and could hear some of the aspects. The question was regarding the big things and the small things which you mentioned. And the question is that when we are talking to someone, somebody is disturbed or somebody is mentally agitated or there is a discussion going on, how we can actually genuinely appreciate that it is actually a small thing or a big thing.

Generally, first of all acknowledge that and then address that also with that person. How do we know what is a small thing, what is a big thing? It is difficult to say. I try to use a three-point framework called Thai.

First is transcendence. That means that we use scripture. From scripture we understand what are the important things in our life.

Then we use our practical buddhi, intelligence. Okay, this is important, this is not so important. But third is we look at our own experience.

So Pratyaksha Bhagwan Dharma. That means I may decide this is a small thing but then say if that's how you are sitting on the floor, now you are sitting on the chair. Now you may decide okay, I want to sit on the floor, I can tolerate it.

But you sit down on the floor and you sit down and you find you keep sitting down and you can't get up. Your legs start feeling cramping or paining and you may decide the next time to sit on the chair. So I thought it is a small thing but it turns out to be a big thing.

So sometimes we learn from experience. In general, it is good to have some frame of reference by which we are able to decide what are small things and big things. But that frame of reference cannot be rigid.

Things change. So it's like if you make a daily plan, you have to have some daily plan. But is it that the daily plan, okay, this is the time I do this, this is the time I do this.

Do we stick to it like 100% all the time? No, sometimes other emergencies come up. We can have some plan and adjust it. So like that we have some framework.

So generally, with our scriptural study, with true scripture, we get the transmitting intelligence. In Puranalithu, sattva. If you more than sattva, our own intelligence.

And then our experience, it is when we reflect on it. The word for it is introspection or introspection. Sanskrit word is Simhavalokanam.

Simhavalokanam means what? Like when a lion or a tiger lion is chasing an animal, it runs and it stops and senses, okay, where am I? Are there any other predators over there? Runs, pauses, runs, pauses, runs, pauses, like that. So like that we need to pause to introspect. Look at our own experience and learn.

So by that gradually we get a sense of what are the big things and what are the small things. Just one more question I have. Sorry, a quick one.

Regarding, Maharaj, sorry, regarding the service, that was material service, I guess? Service. So how would one figure out whether one has actually jumped from service to pure devotional service and he is forcing this upon himself or herself. What are the criteria for that and to just savor ourselves? How can we know whether we artificially jumped to the level of pure devotional service? First, we will feel emotionally suffocated.

I think generally when difficulties or problems come in our life, we should feel more connected with Krishna. We should feel more sheltered in Krishna. So, for example, if somebody's family is sick, we say, for pure devotional service because I want to be pure devotional, I won't pray to Krishna for any harm.

Then, okay, it's possible. There are different modes in which somebody can serve. Somebody can accept that, it's fair enough.

But somebody finds that whatever Krishna happens, Krishna will accept that. But somebody will say, Krishna, please, this is important. We pray to Krishna.

So the end result should be that we should feel emotionally connected with Krishna. There is a friend of mine, senior devotee, he was in Mumbai and he had gone for a program. At that time, this was late 1990s or early 2000s.

At that time, there were big riots had broken out in Mumbai. So he was a saffron carrying books and he saw these riots, he was just charging. He just dropped the books and he ran.

He ran and ran and somehow he hid somewhere, he survived. Then he went and he went to the temple, he told Radha Amma's happiness. He asked, Maharaj, I was giving this class before the program, satsang.

I was telling people that you are not the body, you are the soul. But when I saw these riots here, I just ran. I am having a hypocrisy.

Maharaj said, no, it depends. Should I have just stayed and accepted what happened? He said, no, it depends on the consciousness. Somebody may say, Krishna wants Krishna to protect me and they may not run from there.

But somebody else may say, Krishna, I want to do much more service for you. This body is my tool for serving you, for serving my Guru and for that I protect my body. So, it is that.

Now, is not running away and staying over there more surrendered consciousness than running away and trying to protect ourselves? Life is not that simple. No. Bhakti is about the state of consciousness.

So, which is the consciousness that is more connected with Krishna? Is it that when somebody is running away, they are not dependent on Krishna? Maybe, maybe not. Somebody who is what a person is doing externally is not as important as what is their consciousness internal. So, this is an important point if you see.

Bhakti in the Gita and the Bhagavatam is actually very different. While both are talking about the same principle of Bhakti, but in the Bhagavatam, it is Parikshit Maharaj is the key character and Parikshit Maharaj has accepted that this curse has come and it is even the curse of Krishna's arrangement and snake bird will come as Krishna's arrangement and in this case what happens is, he accepts. He accepts Krishna's will.

But Arjuna, Arjuna actually wants to turn away from the world and announce the world. Krishna says, no, don't do that. Turn to the world and fight in the world.

So, he accepts, as I mentioned yesterday, the responsibility to do Krishna's will. So, I don't think there is any way black and white. So, is Parikshit surrender greater than Arjuna's surrender? No, it is not like that.

If some devotee gets cancer and the devotee says, okay, I will just leave the world and go to Vrindavan and die peacefully in Vrindavan. But if that devotee is 20, 30, 40 years old. So, not necessarily.

Try something. See what works. But if the devotee is 75, 80, 85, the devotee gets cancer.

The devotee says, okay, I have lived my life. I want to go to Vrindavan. That's okay.

So, there is a lot of individuality in the way we function in the world. There is not one or zero. I just continue with this question.

When you mention about the service, devotional service and pure devotional service, how do you, how do we difference it? When you mention about serving the food or serving prasad as a service, can it be a devotional service as well? Okay, so, when is it devotional service and when is it service? It depends. Some people like to do volunteer work. And they would like to do, they will do volunteer work anywhere.

Okay, I want to serve poor people some food. For them, their focus is on they are serving poor people food. The focus is not that this is prasad.

So, for them, it is service. It is connected with Krishna and that is good. But often that may fall in something like Agnya Sukhnoti.

They are doing something which will bring them to Krishna. So, to the extent when the devotional service is, we are conscious of Krishna, it becomes devotional service. And when it is only for Krishna's pleasure, then it becomes pure devotional service.

Thank you. Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna.

Thank you. Another great session. Really wonderful.

Prabhu, whenever Lord Krishna talks about tolerance in the Gita, whether he is talking about 2.14 or later on also like 6.7 and all, he focuses on three points that, for example, the dualities are very ephemeral, they are inevitable and they are peripheral to our core being. I mean, this is the constant message. I mean, later on in 6.7 also when he talks about equanimity, you know, So, the point is, if somebody is, let's say, temperately abusing a person and trampling upon, let's say verbally trampling upon a person and the other person just sort of tolerates it, considering Lord Krishna's instruction, will it not amount to passivity? I mean, I know you touched upon passivity also.

So, if you just remember these three points that these are sort of peripheral to your core being, sort of inevitable and ephemeral. So, if we consider that even if somebody is abusing me, that verbally abusing me or whatever, it's all temporary, it's peripheral to my core being, whatever. So, will that tolerance not lead to passivity? Well, that's why we have to have that intelligence to put first things first.

See, the purpose of life, the purpose of life is not to exhaust our past karma. That is important. But that is not the purpose of life.

The purpose of life is to activate our love for Krishna. And we have to choose that inner and outer environment which can help us do this. The inner and the outer environment.

That will help us to do this. So, if somebody is say, like some devotees they are trapped in Ukraine. The war is going on.

And the devotee decides that okay, if I'm going to die over here, if I'm going to be imprisoned over here, I'm going to be tortured over here, that's my karma, I'll accept it. Okay. It's possible if it's their karma and they accept it.

But it is not just accepting one's karma and accepting that karma, that will lead to spiritual growth. It is the remembrance of Krishna that leads to spiritual growth. So the question is, are we remembering Krishna in that situation? Like one devotee told me that if I'm sick, I'll never take any pain killer.

I'll never take any pain killer. Why? Because that pain is supposed to come to me as past karma. I should not be avoiding that.

Well, okay. This devotee, he just cannot, he cannot chant without sitting under a fan. Because his body starts sweating a lot.

So I told him that you're saying that that pain, you have a sickness and you have pain, that's your past karma. But the sweating and the discomfort when you get, when you're chanting, that's also past karma. So why would you insist on having a fan? Isn't it? He said, no, but I can't focus on Krishna.

I can't remember Krishna. That is the point I said. So is it, should we make it a matter of principles? As devotees, we should never take pain killers.

No, we can't make it a principle. So, we have to do those situations, get us into that situation which is uncool to our bhakti. Now, we will never have any situation which is 100% uncool to bhakti.

There will always be something which is bhakti cool. But what is more favorable and what is less favorable? So if a devotee has a chance for two jobs, one job is far away from devotee association, another job is closer to devotee association. Should the devotee think that oh, if I go around devotee association, you know, it will be unpleasant.

And being in an unpleasant situation, it will exhaust my negative karma. No, not like that. See, even if we consider that karma has to come to me, even if we assume that the karma has to come, but still, how and when the negative karma comes, that is also very important.

Say, somebody has to have, maybe three terrible things are going to happen in their life. Maybe they are going to lose all their money or large part of their savings or how many of their businesses are going to go bankrupt. Maybe they are going to get some terrible health disease.

Terrible disease. Maybe they are going to be betrayed by a loved one. Each of these are terrible situations.

But, if each of these situations comes over 10, 10, 15, 15 years, then it's a little easier to cope with. But if all three come together, it will be completely crushing. So, even if karma is unavoidable, still try to do our karma so that, even if the karma gets repositioned and comes later, that can make a difference.

That's why, I think karma will lead to, tolerance leads to passivity. Only when we misapply the philosophy. The point of Krishna saying the dualities are temporary is not just tolerate whatever duality comes in your way.

His point is, don't let the temporary dualities distract you from dharma. So, the focus on dharma, like Vasudeva and Devaki, when Kamsa is trying to kill Devaki, at that time, one reason Vasudeva gave is that, you know, death is destined. And if something is destined, you can't avoid that.

So, now, Vasudeva could very well turn that argument around and say that Devaki's death is destined, I can't prevent that. So, why am I trying to argue with Kamsa? Isn't it? You're getting this point? You know that? He's telling Kamsa, if death is destined, you can't avoid it. But he doesn't turn that argument around to himself.

Why? Because Kamsa is going against his dharma. A brother should be protecting his sister. A woman.

So, on the other hand, he is sticking to his dharma. So, philosophy should be used to encourage us to do dharma and ultimately do bhakti. Philosophy should not be interpreted in such a way that, we give up dharma and give up bhakti.

Yes. Okay. I have a question.

It's just more of a doubt and I'm just going to present it as if it's a devil's advocate so that you can tell me about it. When something negative is taking place and we say, now I'm going to engage in an active prayer so that Krishna can somehow manifest in my life, even for direction, we may not even be asking for changing the intestines or just what's the best thing to do. Often, to me, it feels like the silence of God is the loudest in those situations because even after the prayer, how God's going to answer your prayer is unknown to you.

It's like, I am scribing. Is this the answer? Is that the answer? It's similar to the other question I asked. It seems anthropomorphic.

It doesn't seem obvious that this is how God is going to respond. Then it feels like the entire system of Krishna Consciousness is in its practicality not existent. One prominent example is there was a devotee who was afraid that he was going to get shot in reality, that someone was going to shoot him because the killer is right in front of him.

There he prays to Krishna, please give me the intelligence so that I may answer correctly so that I don't die. This person didn't die, obviously. If I were in that situation, I would just think, I am really not sure how Krishna is going to be manifesting himself in this position.

Why am I even here in the first place? How do we understand what Krishna's help and answer is going to be in that situation with regards to that situation without falling to something like, well, gratitude shows you the gifts of God in your life and therefore the gifts of God, the good things God has given you. It's like, how do we understand God's presence in our life? Well, if you have a gratitude diary, then all the good things in your life are God's. So, how do we understand what God's actual response is to us and how do we go about feeling shelter that Krishna is going to protect me, if you can't be sure what Krishna's protection even looks like in that situation.

So, if we pray to Krishna, in a particular situation, how do we know how Krishna is going to protect us? How do we know that when something is happening, this is Krishna's sign, this is Krishna's protection? Okay. I need Krishna's protection to answer this question. So, prayer in particular, and bhakti in general.

My understanding is, it can work at multiple levels. At a spiritual level, at an intellectual level, at an emotional level, at a physical level. Now, in many ways, for those who have faith, the most immediate is the emotional level.

That, just by praying to God, just by remembering God, what happens is, we remind ourselves that there's a bigger reality. And that calms us. So, it's like the whole process of meditation, how it works is, this is my consciousness.

Prayer and meditation are somewhat similar. So, in my consciousness, there are many things, and Krishna is one component in my meditation. At least one is there.

But if we keep doing this, if we let Krishna be at least one component in our consciousness, then gradually, Krishna becomes bigger. Krishna is revealed as bigger. Initially, we give entrance to Krishna in our consciousness.

But then, eventually, we gain entrance in Krishna. Gain entrance is not in the sense of merging, but in the sense of immersion or absorption. So, when we take shelter of something, what does it mean that thing is bigger? It's raining.

When I'm caught in the rains, and I see some tree or some shed, from far away, it's a tiny shed. But when I get there, it actually gives me shelter. So, at an emotional level, when we are reminded that Krishna is a bigger reality, that itself brings some calmness.

So, it may not come immediately also for sometime, but if we differentiate, that calmness does come at some level. And sometimes this calmness comes independent of the problem. The problem may still be falling, it may still be a storm, but we feel something.

So, now once that calmness has come, is this calmness emotional? Is this calmness spiritual? It depends. But many people experience some calmness. You come to a temple, you come to a spiritual place, the mind's agitation just seems to go away.

Even non-theistic people have experienced this. They may not attribute to the deity, but it's like some vibes, I don't know what it is. So, at an emotional level, we experience some calmness.

And this is no small consolation. This is no small thing. It is a very significant benefit.

And as one of the most promising areas where science and spirituality are intersecting nowadays, is the field of neuroscience. And meditation and prayer, there's a lot of evidence that if you do neural imaging, people who pray regularly, their brain cells are wired differently. And that's how, I won't go into technicalities, but they stay calmer.

This is something which does happen for many people. Now, apart from that, there can be clarity. Now, clarity may take time.

Clarity may not come naturally. Now, once we have that calmness, if it goes to a spiritual level, it comes from a sense of connectedness. Now, what is the difference between calmness and connectedness? Calmness is, I don't know why I'm feeling calm, but I'm feeling calm.

But connectedness is, I am conscious of Krishna's presence. That Krishna is here, Krishna is with me, and Krishna will be with me. So, you could say connectedness is much higher state than calmness.

But Sthito Smi Gata Sandeha. Sthito Smi is the sense of calmness. Gata Sandeha is the state of clarity.

Now, after we get that clarity, then at a physical level, we might see a path. This is how I need to move ahead. So, we might find a channel to move ahead.

You can see the river, river metaphor. This is where I show. Now, this may often be the last.

So, spirituality and practice of spirituality offers multiple benefits. And one part of Krishna's plan is that we can never know for sure what is Krishna's plan. That is what is actually Krishna's plan.

We are finite beings. Krishna is infinite being. And some of the most dangerous things in the world have been done by people who are convinced that they are doing God's work.

There has to be some level of humility. Okay, this is how I want to serve Krishna. And this is what I think is the best way to serve Krishna.

But if somebody starts saying that, now I am giving this answer. Now, whatever scripture I have studied, whatever I have written, I have given the best answer. But I will never say that this is Krishna speaking to me right now.

Somebody else may feel like that. But if I say Krishna is speaking to me right now, that means there can be nothing wrong in what I have spoken. Nothing incomplete in what I have spoken.

But I am learning. I am improving. And today I may answer in a particular way.

But tomorrow I might not answer in a particular way. So, Prabhupada was completely convinced that he is fully connected with Krishna. But, when an ordinary postman told him, Swamiji you are writing magazines, you can throw them away.

You write books. Prabhupada did not say, you don't know who you are speaking to? I am Uttam Adhikari Mahabhagwan descended from the spiritual world. You think you can instruct me? No.

Prabhupada had opened this. Prabhupada had humility. Okay, this is Krishna speaking to me.

He is speaking to me. This is Krishna or my Guru speaking to me through this particular postman. That's why we can experience the calmness, the connectedness.

I think those two are wonderful experiences in themselves. And clarity you might get. Some channel you might get.

It takes time. So, in many ways life as a devotee is like being a personal scientist. What do you mean by personal scientist? A personal scientist is a personal impersonal scientist.

Impersonal scientist is what basically, in science, objectivity is very important. You distance yourself from the experiment and you observe yourself. But, bhakti is, we try to treat our life like a personal science experiment.

Okay, I did this. What is the effect externally? What is the effect internally? And we learn. Prabhupada tried many things.

Some things worked, some things didn't work. And whatever worked, Prabhupada continued that. Whatever didn't work, Prabhupada came and moved on.

So, it's that one last point I want to make with this answer. That for us if, through prayer, the point I was making is, in bhakti, there is a combination of certainty and uncertainty. The certainty is that Krishna has a plan.

Whatever is happening in my life, that is not random. Krishna has a plan. Prabhupada says, that nothing is happening in my life is completely random and chaotic.

Krishna has a plan. A devotee has that certainty. But, what exactly is the plan? For that, a devotee can have uncertainty.

Or more specifically, what is the role that Krishna wants me to play in my life? A devotee can have uncertainty. Now, if there is only certainty, that can lead to fanaticism. There is an American president who, after 9-11 happened, he declared a war on terror.

And he said that if you are not for this war on terror, then you are for terror. Now, that may not be true. You may be for or against terror, but you may decide it's not.

And he said at that time, God has told me to engage in this war. So, that turned out to be terrible. Now, if there is only uncertainty, that can lead to too much anxiety, insecurity.

But, a healthy combination of both of these leads to curiosity. Curiosity is that I am secure in my relationship with Krishna. I am secure in my conviction that Krishna has a plan.

At the same time, what is the specific plan for whom the devotee has a role in this? So, if you have that curiosity, you keep learning and you keep growing. Thank you. Okay.

I don't know how much, how far should we go now. It takes a minute to stop. Okay, last question.

You can speak loudly, I'll look at you. My question is what you just recently spoke about that some of the decisions in the world, some of the people did some certain things considering that that is the will of the Lord. So, my point is that we also make some certain prayers, not only after some instance, but we also make prayers to Krishna out of our certain desires connecting with the first session.

So, we might, you know, give certain reasoning that, okay, this is certainly Krishna's will. We might, as per your first point, that we should express to Krishna why this Artha is connected with Pramarta. So, we might be impressionable, we might superimpose that this is how Krishna's will is.

Provided our desire might not be good enough or valid enough as per our Dharma. So, how do we understand that this is the thin line when we are crossing you know, our Dharma and coming, just superimposing that this is Krishna's will but this is just our invalid desire. How do we know it is Krishna's will? Well, my understanding is that Krishna's will is more like a direction.

Krishna's will is not necessarily like one specific path. It's not necessarily a narrow lane. It's like a broad pathway.

So, why is that? Because ultimately Krishna has given us individuality and Krishna wants us to use that individuality. like, I have talked with many parents and their parents especially express concern in outside India, in India also, their children don't listen to them. So, then I ask sometimes, the parents are complaining a lot.

It's a lot of worry. Would you like to express and replace your child with a perfectly obedient robot who looks just like your child? Most parents say no. My mother used to say, I don't mind having a robot in addition to my child.

So, the thing is that we want our children to listen to us. But the point is, we don't want our children to be our slaves. We don't want our children to not have their individuality.

We want them to make good choices. And we want to train them so that they can make good choices even when we are not there with them. So, similarly, Krishna also in doing Krishna's will doesn't mean Krishna wants us to become like a robot.

So, no metaphor in the world is perfect. Prabhupada is the one who makes me dance like a puppet. Now, a puppet is surrendered but a puppet doesn't have love for the puppet master.

So, no metaphor is absolute in this world and Krishna has given us individuality and he wants us to use that individuality. That's why it's like we experiment, we observe and we learn. I think I mentioned this in the other class, when Krishna is, when the Gopis cook for Krishna, it is not that Krishna everyday gives a recipe and a menu and says this is the only thing you have to cook, this is the only way you have to cook.

No, they have their individuality. Krishna wants them to express their individuality. So, it's like, if you consider brothers, Yudhishthira and Bhima, it's actually very difficult to conceive of two brothers who are more different than them.

Yudhishthira is more like a Brahmin-Kshatriya. He will bend backward to avoid conflict. Now Bhima is like a Kshatriya-Kshatriya.

He is a Kshatriya squared. He is itching for a fight. But, it is not that Yudhishthira had to become Bhima, Bhima had to become Yudhishthira.

They were individuals and they served the lord in their own way. So, thank you very much. Shri Rathnagopadki Shri Krishnabhagwaniki Gaurabhakta Vrindiki by Gaurabhima Vrindiki.