3 Gopi gita | Texts 5-6 | Dealing with lust & pride

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Hare Krishna So we are continuing our discussion on the Gopi Gita and We have discussed till now the first four verses and the broad theme Because this section has been elaborately commented on by the Vedic Acharyas So the specific flow of thought that I am taking in Analyzing these verses is that each verse is basically a call to Krishna Please return Please come back and each verse is Begging Krishna to come back by making the call from different perspectives So this theme is what is being directed towards by various points. So here In the previous verses Krishna brought out Krishna you are the you have brought glory to him with love. How can you beg him to face me? Please come back.

That is Jai Nidhi. Jai Nidhi Kali Then Krishna you are the God of love Surat Nama Tattvi and we have come to you out of love How can you abandon us? Ashur Kadha Sikha. How can you kill us? May you not kill us Then they say Krishna you cannot kill us because you are our protector So Vishwatho Bhaya, you have protected us so many times Rakshita Moha, why are you not protecting us now and on? And then they say you have actually come to protect the whole universe Vishwa Gupta Ye Therefore we are also part of this universe.

Please please protect us And now they move onward And Here they are trying to figure out. Why is it that Krishna has abandoned them? Specifically they are actually Most of this verse is more in the Aishwarya The previous verses are Sathvatam Bhule But you appeared south of the dynasty. So same thing is Vrishni Bhul Girde so you are You are So you are as a Kshatriya You are protected.

You have appeared in the Vrishni dynasty and Veer Akshitha Bhaya If we are being chased by some thieves and we are running in fear of our life And then we see some awful perverting police person Please save us. When we come under the shelter of the police person, we feel Veer Akshitha Bhaya. We will be protected So Krishna, you are the Kshatriya.

Kshatriyas are often sometimes the translation is warriors Well, that is true to that. Kshatriyas are primarily guardians or protectors As a part of protecting and guarding sometimes we have to fight. They are primarily protectors.

Shraddha Trayateyam Those who protect from what? So but you are such a person When you have descended to this world, when the Lord comes to this world He, the world is limited and this form may seem limited like anybody else’s form The Lord is at a particular place at a particular time and yet he retains his unlimited potency And that’s what they are indicating by saying that you or the Kshatriyas can be protected from some danger in this world Maybe many dangers, but you The entire fear of mortal existence itself That you can protect us from it You O Lord are the supreme protector Charan Eeyusham Those who come and take shelter of your feet, those who worship you, the Lord protects them Charan Eeyusham And then they say so We are taking shelter of you Lord. So normally the reciprocation is say if somebody, if we meet somebody elderly, somebody venerable Respectable, worshipable, we go down to them and then we rise They bless us. So they are saying Krishna in that mood we are taking shelter of you Please bless us Shirasidheena So shirasidheena, please put your hand on our head So karasarovam, your hand is as beautiful as a lotus Kantakamata, O Lover So For the Gopis, even when they are practicing on the Aishwarya of Krishna The madhuri awareness is never lost It is always there Somewhere in the background So kantakamata, please fulfill our desire So kamata, we’ll discuss that word as we move forward Please grant our desire shirasidheena shri karakramam, your hand is not just like a lotus, it is also Bearing the insignia, the mark of the goddess of fortune So let that hand make us fortunate So here They are Approaching the Lord as a blesser They bless us from distress Bless us so that we can be relieved of distress but specifically The focus we have on karma Generally speaking we all while functioning in life Try to make sense of things Say if we are crossing a road, then we think that car is coming in that way I think before the car comes here, I can cross it So when we try to make sense of things basically means what? There are many aspects of making sense of things but one aspect of making sense is understanding the cause-effect correlation Okay, what cause produces what effect? So for example, if somebody suddenly snaps at us Okay, that is the effect we have observed.

What is the cause? Is it that this person is routinely short-tempered? Is this person upset with me? Or this person is just upset because of something else and I am just caught in the crossfire so so we try to make sense of things and Generally Many people ask what is the need for studying philosophy? Yes, it can be answered in different way because philosophy One of the primary purposes is to make sense of things that don’t make sense So we don’t we may not need philosophy in the normal course of life but for example If suddenly say somebody in our social circle or somebody close to us passes away What happened? Why did this happen? If somebody is living very healthy and suddenly they get some cancer What’s this? So basically when we see an effect and we can’t figure out the cause for it That’s when we start trying to look for some bigger picture and a bigger picture is what philosophy tries to provide us So for example that we have past life karma, which comes in that’s a bigger picture When the world is unfair and worse, is the world itself unfair? Then no, God is ultimately fair. Even if the world is Transactionally unfair even if people are cruel Krishna is not super So basically we put things that happen to us in some cause-effect correlation but philosophy Provides us bigger and bigger Frameworks to put the effects that we are experiencing So for example the bad happens to us a bigger framework is past karma Now you can go further and further the ultimate framework is Krishna’s plan So philosophy is meant to help us make sense of the things that don’t make sense now for the gopis Krishna’s sudden disappearance Just doesn’t make sense The Krishna called us Krishna was with us and without any warning Krishna just left us We are talking with someone We are lost in thought maybe we close our eyes to think of that person or to think of what we are going to say We open our eyes and the person is not there Hey, what happened? Where did this person go? Why did this person go? What happened? so the gopis are just not able to make sense of Krishna having abandoned them And they broadly Come up with two reasons Why might Krishna have abandoned them? So in this verse they talk about calm and then The next word they talk about Smiles, smile means pride So we all know there are anarthas within us and these anarthas They keep us away from the From earth and ultimately Krishna is not just the anartha, he is the paramartha So they’re thinking is it because we had some selfish desires We had we came to Krishna with some kama and that is why Krishna left us So If that is the case Krishna still may take shelter of him Still may take shelter of him, be long That you please come and you bless us Kanta Kama Madana So in the Aishwarya Mood The focus here is Krishna. If that is the issue you alone can resolve that issue So please return Now Among the gopis who came to be with Krishna There were many different kinds of gopis Sometimes we may refute Mayavad Philosophically, but psychologically we can very easily be Mayavadis That means what? Oh everybody in your own category is like this only So we often are Mayavadi looking at Mayavadis What do I mean by that? We treat all impersonalists as the same But no, you know different people even if they take a very personal path, they may take for different reasons Somebody might be very few people who actually may join the Mayavadi organization are attracted by the philosophy Some people might be attracted by the charisma of the leader Some people are attracted by the humanitarian work that they are doing.

Some people might be attracted just by the Social atmosphere that they have. Some people may like that. Okay here I can teach some culture to my children so the point is that a More educated vision is we don’t see everyone as one even if they belong to one category So the gopis are all belonging to one category.

They are gopis But among them there are many different kinds of gopis. There are of course the Nitya Siddha gopis For them there is no karma at all A completely pure love for Krishna and we’ll discuss about the pure love for Krishna But then there are Sadhana Siddha Gopis We’ll talk about their situation a little later. Then there are the Roshichari Gopis Roshichari are many of them were in Ramlila They beheld a very beautiful and sweet intimate interaction between Sita and Ram and they aspired to be in a similar relationship with Lord Ram and Lord Ram said, we’ll teach you a life time.

Here I am, Mariyatha Purush Gopal. Then there are the Svarga Vasi Gopis Svarga Vasi are basically the Deva Kanyas, the Apsaras When they see Krishna, they are attracted to Krishna’s beauty and they also long to be with Krishna Now Svarga is a place of worldly desires So they have karma and often their attraction to Krishna is based on karma Oh, Krishna is so attractive. I want to be with Krishna.

So, yes, some of them may have karma Like that there are many other categories But the point is that some of them may have karma. The Gopis here are taking void of humility and saying Krishna isn’t Because of karma that you have gone away from us Then what can we do? So actually while Lust and love We often try to differentiate them Now there are many different ways to understand the difference between them But one simple way to understand is that lust is selfish love is selfless and What this means is that When there is lust, I need you So I care for you You are doing something for me I need you so I care for you. So love is I care for you So I need you That love and lust is not just physical gratification of a particular sense That is one aspect of lust But lust and love it’s the difference is more in the direction of the motivation for the relationship So When it is that you are providing some gratification for me, therefore I care for you then in such a Relationship a person may seem to care a lot for the other person But the care is primarily because you do something And as soon as you stop giving that thing to me then It’s as if That whatever love that lust is there which is called as love that love disappears A little bit faster than a drop of water in a desert Go on completely So if it is based on selfishness, then that is lust.

That is love is that I Care for you, but if I had to care for you If you’re far away from me, if I have no contact with you, if you are not near me It’s difficult for me to express my care So I care for you, so I will you So in that sense lust and love they are significantly different Now in real life Relationships They gradually move from selfishness towards selflessness If at all they move towards that Not all the relationships always move, but the idea is that In real life Differentiating this is not that easy It takes time but over a period of time the relationship evolves Every relationship is actually meant to evolve If it’s a healthy relationship, it revolves more towards love even if the starting point is self-centered Now When we look generally we associate lust with the Sexual dimension of life with the male-female relationship. Of course nowadays the way society is going Sexuality is not restricted to male-female. There are many different ways in which Unfortunately that particular dynamic comes up, but whatever it is So we generally associate lust with a very strong physical connotation to it Sometimes it is easy to connect or to equate the relationship between Krishna and the Gopis with our relationships in this world so Nowadays over the last maybe 3-4 years Of all young people it has become very cool to come to the temples Now they Come into a temple and taking a selfie and putting on something.

I visited this temple. I visited that temple. So that is quite common but there was some survey done about why the resurgence of religious or spiritual interest among youth the very different reasons came up for that and none of them are really conclusive but There’s So there it seems that among young people it is not just temples It’s there is a general religious resurgence.

So people are going to churches also people are going to mosques also people are going to Gurudwaras, people are going to temples also So Many times when young people come often boys and girls come together. They will be in a relationship, exploring the relationship And they come together so there’s one one They were asked in the survey. Okay.

What do you like about going to temples? So they said, you know, the Hindu temples are very nice On the altar there is a divine couple and we are a couple So there is that Equalization that is there. Now at one level we can say somehow the other people are coming to Krishna That is good but the challenge is that If the spiritual is equated with the material then we lose the opportunity to rise toward the spiritual So when we come to Krishna that if somebody has material desires See how it works is generally as every relationship begins with some selfish intent If we talk with someone we want something from them. In general the difference between material consciousness and spiritual consciousness is that when I see someone if my first thought is What can this person do for me? Then that is material consciousness Spiritual consciousness is what can I do for this person? What can I do for this person? So that is the consciousness we have Then that is spiritual consciousness now, of course What can I do for this person? Within that say we may think of oh this person can be engaged in the service to Krishna as devotees Maybe this person can give some financial contribution.

This person has this talent. Maybe they can do this for Krishna So now we may need that and we may think of engaging that person in that service. That’s fine But if our primary concern is simply to get that person to do something and not their spiritual welfare That even when we are giving them some spiritual activity our consciousness will still be material So normally it is a courteous way of dealing with people is if somebody comes and meets us What can I do for you? As devotees say how can I serve you? Now the word serve is a little not so pleasant for people The idea of service is fine customer service, customer support but what can I do for you? So I saw a cartoon one day when he sent me this is the materialistic consciousness When you meet someone you ask what can you do for me? Literally ask that What can you do for me? I said what can you do for me? So that is very self-centered consciousness So now generally it is that when we meet someone we have some interest So relationships start from that perspective quite often We want something for that other person but gradually they grow I want something from that person I would like to do something for that person Together we can do something bigger It is not just I do something for you, you do something for me We together serve Krishna So in the background we will come together Initially it is just maybe for some gratification but eventually if they have a child then there is focus shift Both of us together are to take care of the child We are going to bring a new life into the world and raise that child and hopefully that child will do well in the world and make the world a slightly better place So that shared purpose comes up So similarly in bhakti when we come together our purpose is to serve Krishna So most people when they start off they will have some kama which is natural and that kama will gradually go away as we move forward So specifically about kama or physical lust, I will talk about that a little later but I was making the point that even if we have kama please Krishna you come, you bless us and then gradually, so you purify us of this lust So the idea over here is that just because there is kama, that should not stop us from coming to Krishna and they say Krishna just because we have kama please don’t abandon us please Krishna come to us and purify us of that kama So if you see in the Srimad Bhagavatam itself then now kama is itself we could say it is rajasic but it also depends on the overall consciousness of the person the overall way the person is living and there are examples in the Bhagavatam of kama in sattva kama in rajas kama in tamas So kama is not just lust So we have the example of Kardamuni Kardamuni performed great tapasya and the lord appeared in front of him he said my dear lord I want a life partner this is my desire and he said if he could perform so much tapasya that he could actually see the lord and the lord was moved by his tapasya the lord shed tears of seeing how much austerity he had performed so that’s how the name Madhava Sarva has come up then why would he still have that desire desires have their own way of coming and going sometimes we can’t have simply a one to one correlation just because bhakti has increased yes generally as devotion increases the mundane desires will decrease but a specific desire may or may not decrease so but if that person is practicing bhakti that desire will be fulfilled within that and within that framework so in Rajas we have the example of Dhruva Maharaj so Dhruva he came with a desire for kingdom and he came to the lord and significantly neither the Bhagavatam nor Narada Muni they condemned Dhruva for this in fact when Dhruva is not able to tolerate dishonor Narada Muni appreciated and says how great is the splendor of the Kshatriyas that they cannot tolerate dishonor yes there is truth to that but the Kshatriya psychology is such that honor is very very important and the way the society is arranged is that rather than telling them don’t worry about honor tolerate honor and dishonor rather they say because we are so concerned about honor act in ways that will never bring dishonor act in honorable ways so Dhruva has this craving for kingdom and the lord does not reject he goes to the lord there is also the example of Deeti she approaches she wants to destroy Indra because she hears that I will kill my sons and then she has a desire and her husband engages her in a vrata which is basically a devotional vrata and by that her animosity towards Indra goes away so the point is material desires should never stop someone from coming to Krishna even if whatever desire a person has somehow the other person comes to Krishna that is good and how long it may take for that desire to go away and also we can’t control that we can’t mandate that you are practicing bhakti therefore this desire should have gone away why do you have to practice that everybody is individual and everybody’s mind is different everybody has a particular history so anyway even if somebody has this kama Krishna when we say there are two trajectories if it is fulfilled if it is frustrated so what happens when it is fulfilled it becomes lower when it is frustrated it becomes anger it becomes anger but when this is true it is not always like this we do the example some kind of a scratching an itch so if somebody has this in their skin they have some kind of rash and we scratch it so what happens when we scratch it it worsens now that is true but when does it happen when does the scratch lead to the itch increasing it is when already there is a rash already there is a disease sometimes we might just get an urge to scratch if I am sweating suddenly I feel like scratching my nose now if in a public setting I do that it is a little embarrassing not very polite to do that but just because I scratch my nose once it is not for the rest of my life I become a nose scratcher isn’t it so it is not that every desire when it is indulged into it becomes a compulsive or addictive desire not all karma necessarily when fulfilled leads to both it is when if already there is a disease if already there is a rash and we scratch it then the desire becomes then the urge to scratch becomes worse so similarly it is when if the person is overall healthy scratch once so like that if a person is broadly living in sattva or trying to live according to dharma then what happens is dharma artha kam gradually by that one will move towards moksha so it generally happens say the level of material desires a person has at the age of 15 or 20 or 25 generally that level of desires may not be there at the age of 40 45, 50 may not go away completely especially in today’s culture there is a whole industry to keep fueling material desires even in people as they grow now especially when people get retired life begins at 50 oh till now you had this responsibility that responsibility till now your life was never yours now it is your life I had a friend in America he turned 15 and he said so from nowhere he started getting ads on his phone in his email he said now is the time to enjoy life if you have digestive problems you have this remedy if you have heart problems you have this remedy if you have eyesight problems you have this remedy now just enjoy life so he said what actually you need is a maya remedy generally however if a person is living dharmically living regulatedly living responsibly gradually desires do go up and if somebody is practicing bhakti then just by the practice of bhakti even if they are not able to give up those desires initially by the practice of bhakti gradually those desires may decrease the bhaktis are saying Krishna if it is because of our karma that your parents please return and fulfill the desire karma madam if you come and bless us so we want to be with you we want to behold you we want to serve you if you come and bless us then by that blessing we will become purified and this karma will go away so in this way actually the gopis are beseeching Krishna even if we are unqualified please don’t abandon us Krishna please don’t abandon us please come and deliver us so in bhakti we all are unqualified there are various ways in which we are unqualified but by Krishna’s mercy we are never disqualified so unqualified means we don’t have the necessary qualification but disqualified means we are not allowed to practice at all so that never happens no matter what conditions we may have we are the door of bhakti is always open for us saranam nirushama samskriti jaya saranam nirushama samskriti jaya saranam nirushama samskriti jaya saranam nirushama samskriti jaya saranam nirushama samskriti jaya jaya saranam nirushama samskriti samskriti jaya jaya saranam nirushama saranam nirushama saranam nirushama nirushama saranam nirushama saranam nirushama saranam sarsaram saranam nirushama sarsaram nirushama nirushama sarsaram In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Amen. So, Braja Janardhi, Veera Yoshita. So, Braja Janardhi.

Braja Janardhi means, Braja Janardhi means the Vrindavan Vasis are there. So, distress. Han, you remove the distress of the Vrindavan Vasis.

Veera Yoshita. So, you are a hero. You are a hero for all women.

You protect them with your smile. And those who are devoted to you, if they have some smile, smile is pride. That your smile destroys the pride of your people, your loved ones, your devotees.

Bhaja Sakhe Bhavat. So, the second line we will elaborate, we discussed. Bhaja Sakhe Bhavat.

So, Bhaja is in a mood of respectful, worshipful. Sakhe, oh friend. So, Bhaja Sakhe is almost antithesis.

So, it’s Bhaja Sakhe Bhavat, King Karai Smile. So, Bhavat in Sanskrit, we have the second person reference. In English, we only have you.

But in Sanskrit, we have tum or aap. In Hindi, we have tum or aap. Like that tuam and bhavan.

So, here Bhavat is also indicating that Aishwarya Bhavan, respectful. So, bhavan is aap, like that. Bhavat, King Karai Smile.

So, we are your King Karai. King Karai is basically servants. King Karoti, King Karai.

What should I do? How can I serve you? King Karai Smile. We are your servants. So, what can you do? Jaladanaanam Charudarshaya.

So, Charudarshaya, please show us your face. I want a face like Jalruha Anandam. Anandam is face.

Jalruha is like a lotus flower. It’s a charm, very sweet face, very sweet form. Please show it.

It’s like it’s Krishna. If you think it is because of our pride that you have abandoned us, then please come, show your face and just be holding your smile and we will destroy our pride. Jai Jai Jai Nadiam.

Jai Jai Jai Nadiam. Jai Jai Jai Nadiam. Jai Jai Jai Nadiam.

Jai Jai Jai Nadiam. Jai Jai Jai Nadiam. Jai Jai Jai Nadiam.

Jai Jai Jai Nadiam. Jai Jai Jai Nadiam. Jai Jai Jai Nadiam.

So when the Gopis, when with Krishna and the Rasa dance had just begun, at one level the understanding is that the Gopis became proud and they started thinking, oh we are so special, we are so fortunate that Krishna is with us and that Krishna expanded Himself so that He was with each Gopi. And each Gopi thought that Krishna is only with me. And that created some pride within them.

Now when we talk about Radhashtra, we will talk about how it was not pride, it was something else. Naam naam chepo kadhi kalpon is a beautiful explanation. But at this point the Gopis are saying, they are trying to figure out, why did Krishna abandon us? So was it because of pride? So if it is because of pride, then they are saying Krishna, the cure to pride is ultimately you.

It is your beauty, your smile and therefore please come and bestow us your darshan. Let us see your smile and then the pride will go away. So let us try to understand how Krishna’s smile destroys pride.

Before that, just a few words about words. The meaning of word changes with time. So overall the word pride is more and more getting a positive connotation.

So like we have the word honour. So honour and pride. Like there is a hotel, Pravin.

So it is sometimes if a team, say India has gone to Australia and says five matches, four matches are lost. The series is already lost. Then they say we are playing for pride.

We don’t want it to be 5-0 at least. So now there pride is used. There is no pride, you already lost the series.

But at least let it not be a complete crushing. So there is honour and dishonour. Nobody wants to be dishonoured.

Even if we lose, we don’t want to lose our dishonour anyway. So the word pride is often now getting a positive connotation. So it is like there is the word arrogance.

I have travelled across the world. I have never seen any hotel or an arrogance team. So the word arrogance has a definitely negative connotation.

So generally if we go in the best route, if we talk about a six-and-a-half-thousand, we will not use the word pride. We use arrogance. Because what is wrong with pride? Now when we say pride, there is a problem with that.

But the words have certain connotations. Like even the word lust which we discussed earlier. See many negative words have somehow with time acquired positive connotation.

Like the word wicked. Now the word wicked means cruel. It comes out of the wicked person.

But nowadays, especially among youth, the word wicked has a positive connotation. That was a wicked party. Wicked means wonderful.

So in cricket, if you read cricket commentary, that was a wicked innings. Wicked innings means it is not necessarily ruthless. It is a brilliant innings.

So many negative words actually start acquiring positive connotation. If you consider the word mean. Mean means cruel.

Why have you been so mean? But mean, nowadays, it is not like a negative connotation as a positive connotation. It has negative connotation also. So connotation means what the word signifies.

Just when I was coming from the airport, I saw an advertiser for laptops. He said, in my book I have something, lean and mean. So the idea is that lean and mean, that means it is thin and it is tough.

So mean can mean cruel, it can mean tough. So words, their connotations change. Even the word lust has become quite positive.

Especially the adjective lusty. I have read a dictionary, Oxford Webster. Example sentence for lust was, when a newborn baby emits a lusty cry.

That indicates that the lungs of the kid are very powerful. Lungs are healthy. So now lusty simply means energetic.

So recently some cricket match was there in which somebody was very aggressive and demolished the opposite side. So it was this player’s lusty innings shatters the opponents. So lust has now become associated simply with energy.

The negative connotation, so basically the means of words change. So when we talk about anartha, we are talking about arrogance. When you use the word pride as anartha, arrogance is total self-centeredness.

It is like some people when they are in charge, say I need to know everything. I need to know the things that I don’t need to know so that I know that I don’t need to know them. So some people have a very strong controlling mentality, for example.

So arrogance has that negative connotation. Now for many people when we talk about pride, like I said, Kshatriyas have that sense of honour. So when we use the word honour, it is used more in a positive sense.

So in one letter Prabhupada says that Christ was a disciple who had apparently broken some regulatory principles. So Prabhupada writes, you had made a vow in front of the deities, in front of the sacred fire. How can you break that vow? Don’t you have a sense of honour? So a sense of honour means that that is what should inspire us to behave in honour.

So basically, some people talk about if I have too much humility, I will have no self-respect. If I don’t have self-respect, people will not respect me. So that consideration is there.

And for some people, the amount of respect they get, they are very, very conscious of it. Some people don’t really care that much about that. Now when you say Sanatana, it may be.

But the important thing is that that should not become an impediment for someone to practice Bhakti. So I was talking about a progression. See, we want to become pure devotees.

But it’s a long journey. Most of us in this material world are materialists. There are few people who are actually pure materialists.

They are pure devotees of matter. So, what is that? Ki manyat kama hind kum. It is not just I want to fulfil my desires.

The demoniac think the world has no purpose other than the fulfilment of worldly desires. What other purpose can be there? Ki manyat kama hind kum. So, from that level, for people to come to becoming pure devotees, it’s a long journey.

See, if somebody is a materialist and we tell them to become a pure devotee, it’s like a huge jump for them. Most people, they will just go down. Because it’s not practical.

So, Krishna in 3.26 says that na buddhir vedam janahe kanyanah karma-sangeena joshaye sarva-karmani vidvaan-yukta-samachara He says, even if we are vidvaan, even if we are wise, even if we are enlightened, and we are asaktah, we are detached, not asaktah, we are asaktah. Yuktah. Krishna says, even if we are connected with Krishna, even if we are wise, and the people who are speaking to us, na buddhir vedam janahe kanyanah karma-sangeena they are ignorant and they are attached.

Krishna says, don’t disturb their minds. na buddhir vedam janahe Instead, joshaye sarva-karmani gradually help them rise. So that means, instead of expecting them to take a high jump, we need to create a staircase for them.

Which gradually they will come down. So the idea is, most people, they need to become devotees before they can become pure devotees. Isn’t it? If we focus too much on the purity of the connection with Krishna, then eventually what may happen is, there is no connection with Krishna.

So if somebody has some material desires, and they say, okay, you should never pray to Krishna about material desires. Well, that is true. But you know, how do you even define the material desire? If somebody, because the word material, it is, sometimes we have this categorization, this is material and this is spiritual.

And we should give up the material and become spiritual. And that is true. But within the material also, there are categories.

Let’s say, whenever we go to America, nowadays there is a new category. It says, are you an Asian? Now, how many of us are Asians? Well, we are Asians, but how many of us think of us as Asians? You know, Asia is such a big category. You know, in Asians, there are Filipinos, there are Japanese, there are Chinese, there are Arabs.

It’s such a large category, that it’s not helpful at all. So, the point is, material is such a big category. In material, there is sattva, there is rajas and there is tamas.

So, if somebody is praying to God, I want enough money so that I can bomb a bomb to blow up that person’s house. I, OK, I want money, so that I can have a house bigger than my brother’s house. I want a house because my current house is leaking and it is broken and my child is suffering from cold and disease and the doctor has said that if you don’t have a good house, the child will die.

So, all three are desiring something material. But can we say all the three desires are the same? There is a huge difference. So, the word material desire, sometimes it’s not a very helpful categorization.

So, we want to go from selfish to selfless desires. So, the point is, if somebody has a consideration of pride or honor, then rather than telling those people, give up this consideration of pride or honor, we urge them to actually act in honorable ways. Act in ways that will blow up their honor.

There was one devotee who was a good kirtanier and he was doing kirtan in the temple when Prabhupada was there in that place and Prabhupada came to have that kirtan. And as Prabhupada was passing by, Prabhupada patted him on the shoulder and said, nice kirtans. And then this devotee thought that, this is a fortunate to talk with Prabhupada.

But sometimes, I feel proud that I am such a good kirtanier. And Prabhupada just looked at him compassionately and patted him again on the shoulder. What’s wrong with that? He said, what’s wrong with that? Pride is a demoniac quality.

The point Prabhupada was making, the point implied over there, may be some of the devotees understood it. Pankaj Agra Prabhupada would tell this past time that he said that, Prabhupada, the idea is that if somebody has pride inside them, their pride cannot just go away by clapping your hands. Yes, it takes time.

It is not like you can blow some magic wand and take the petal. So then, if we seek respect, it is better that we seek respect among devotees rather than non-devotees. If we have to seek respect among non-devotees, then we will have to do more and more materialistic things.

If we have to seek respect among devotees, we will do more devotional things. May be if we carry bhakti, may be we want respect in bhakti, may be we fast. And suppose somebody fasts on Ekadashi, oh, you too may fast.

May be somebody belongs to Tamasic circle and they seek respect over there. Who can drink more bottles of alcohol? That is the matter of pride. Somehow, if we seek respect, we can seek it by doing respectable things.

By seeking respect among the virtuous, among the devoted, we will be inspired to do better, to become better. And over a period of time, gradually what will happen is that we will start realizing that actually this virtuous activity, this devotional activity itself gives more satisfaction than the praise that I get for that activity. When I give classes, I have to speak basic feedback.

What do people say? So now, sometimes feedback is just the ego’s way of asking for appreciation. Seeking appreciation. But one time I gave a class and I prepared that class very well and we all have a certain way that we want to deliver the class.

I thought the class went very well. And then after that class, not a single person came and appreciated the class. Not a single person.

It was good. I was feeling a little exasperated. And then I was feeling a little annoyed, dissatisfied.

And then somehow I tried to journal regularly. That night when I was journaling, it struck me. Actually when I was speaking that class, when I was delivering that class, I was so absorbed.

I was immersed in Krishna. Even some people had come and appreciated the class. That, the appreciation for a few moments, but the absorption that was there, that is so much more.

So, tvad-virya-gāyan mahā-mṛta-maghuna-citta Rādhārāṇī Mahārāja says that, when I glorify you, just the glorification is such nectar. He’s not saying the recognition after the glorification of nectar. If it comes, that also need not be a sign of ego.

You know, appreciation is different from seeking glorification. Appreciation is just a human connection where the heart leads to every heart. We live in such a big world, complex world, that it is very easy to feel like does my existence even matter? I am so small and does my endeavors matter? Is my life also of any value? So, we need a sense of appreciation so that we have a sense of value.

So, basically, when we talk about our vision of ourselves, how we look at ourselves, we generally think of humility and its opposite is pride or arrogance. When there is some truth to that, a more holistic vision is a pendulum. On one side is arrogance or pride.

The other side is actually insecurity or inferiority. And in between the two is humility. So, arrogance or pride or ego, when that is there, what it means is I can do everything and ultimately I am everything.

Ishwaro aham aham bhogi. I can do everything. That is ego.

Insecurity or inferiority, that can lead to inferiority complex, that can lead to sense of worthlessness. Since I can do nothing, I am worthless. Ultimately, I am nothing.

But the reality… So, this arrogance is mayavada. But I am everything. I am nothing is shunyavada.

So, mamareeb aham shok jeevan rakhe. I am something. And I can do something.

So, that is humility. That I am not the whole, I am not everything, I am not nothing. But I am something.

So, sometimes when we try to give up ego, we go towards insecurity and inferiority. And that is pathological. That is not at all healthy.

And many of the people who seem to be very proud, actually their ego is simply a cover up for their insecurity. The people who have the least respect for themselves, demand the most respect from others for themselves. I don’t value myself, I don’t respect myself and I compensate for that by demanding respect from others.

And that’s why people who have the least respect for themselves become the most agitated when others show the least disrespect to them. Small thing, forget it and move on. So, for them it’s not just ego, it’s insecurity.

If this person doesn’t respect me, then do I even matter? Am I even valued? So, that is not healthy. If I come into the temple and instead of looking at the lord and wanting to bow down to the lord, my first thought is, how many people are bowing down to me? Then, that is not at all Krishna consciousness. So, if I enter the temple, how many people bow down to me? That person entered, why more people bow down to that person? So, we are completely missing the point.

So, that happens when we have insecurity. So, bhakti actually frees us from both. What that means is, that pride does give us some sense of pleasure when others honour us, when others respect us, when others praise us.

That gives us some pleasure. But actually, when we behold the deity of Krishna, that gives so much more pleasure that the pleasure from pride becomes insignificant. So, for those who are devoted to Krishna and Krishna smiles at them, that means when Krishna is pleased by their service, Krishna reveals his beauty, that’s when the higher taste comes.

When the higher taste comes, then whatever taste we might have in getting glorification and recognition from the world, that just becomes pale and stale. So, for us, even if sometimes we are seeking some service and we are seeking glorification from others for that service, that doesn’t mean we should give up the service. We should do the service.

The cure for pride is not the suppression of talent. It is the purification of intent. Suppose somebody can sing nicely.

If I sing nicely, I’ll become proud. Somebody can speak well. If I speak well, I’ll become proud.

Well, it is not like that. The cure for pride is by actually singing for Krishna, by speaking for Krishna, by managing for Krishna, by counselling for Krishna, we will connect with Krishna, we’ll get an experience of Krishna, we’ll get a higher taste and that’s how we will become free from pride. The cure for pride is not the suppression of talent.

It is not the rejection of service. Oh, this service will make me proud, so I’ll do this service. It is not the rejection of service.

It is the purification of intent. So, the and how does the purification of intent happen? At one level, that is conscious. We try to do it.

Krishna, I am not doing this so that I am praised by the world. I am doing this for your pleasure. At the same time, it also happens at an automatic or this is conscious effort and there is also mercy.

By Krishna’s mercy, what happens is that we get the higher taste and then no longer the world’s glorification matters to us. Krishna, if you think it is because of our pride that we have you have abandoned us, then please, Krishna, return and free us from the pride. Nityo jana smaya, dhamsala smita.

So, we can just recite this once and then we can stop. Nityo jana smaya, dhamsala smita. Nityo jana smaya, dhamsala smita.

Nityo jana smaya, dhamsala smita. Nityo jana smaya, dhamsala smita. Nityo jana smaya, dhamsala smita.

So today we spoke on two main points. The first was about kamanda, what last we discussed. The second was about privacy.

So in each of these, we discussed three main points. Last we discussed about how the gopis, they don’t have lust, but out of humility they are saying that even if we have lust, then the gopis, some gopis may have had lust. Then we talked about the difference between lust and love.

It is not just physical, it is more about selfless or selfish. It is whether I seek your relationship, why? Because you will do something for me, or is it because I want to do something for you? And then we talked about how even if there is lust, that is an example of an itch, it is not that every itch becomes a victim. It is only when there is a disease.

So the idea is, if there is no disease, then the desires will come and go. And especially desires in the frame of dharma or bhakti. But what happens is, we pursue those desires, not give up those desires, but gradually we will become eliminated.

So material desires should not be considered as a disqualification. We may be unqualified, but we are not disqualified. And then, with respect to pride, we also discussed about how it is thought that the gopis are so special, and that was thought to be their pride.

They are thinking like that. Philosophy is about making sense of things that don’t make sense. So they are trying to figure it out.

Why has Krishna happened? Is it because of lust or pride? So then, with respect to pride, I discussed about how the word pride has a positive connotation nowadays. It is more in the sense of honour. In the negative sense, it is arrogance.

So, with respect to pride, rather than think of ego or arrogance, humility is not the opposite of it. It is more of in-between. I can do everything, I can do nothing.

I can do some things. If we have some pride, better to seek respect in respectable circles. That means, do honourable things.

And by that, gradually what will happen is, we will get a higher taste. If we serve Krishna. So, we cannot jump from mundane consciousness to spiritual consciousness.

We need a gradual, step-by-step approach. So we need to become devotees before we can become pure devotees. So even if somebody is seeking honour, they should not be condemned, but they need to be doped in so that they can gradually come to Krishna.

The cure for pride is not the rejection of service or the suppression of talent. It is the duplication of talent. Are there any questions? We have a few minutes.

So one thing after hearing all this, the first thought which came to my mind was, Krishna is so much more mature and more broad-minded than we generally think. So my question is, you are talking about higher taste. So should we actively, consciously pray also for higher taste or is it just that we work in such a way that we get automatically manifest? Certainly we can pray for higher taste.

There is nothing wrong in that. Ultimately, we want a higher taste. You can go also deeper into what is the motivation for the higher taste.

Is the higher taste so that I can enjoy more or so that I can serve you better? If I have a higher taste, then I will be less distracted by the things of this world. And then I can render better service to you. So certainly we can pray for higher taste, but we can also pray that Krishna, let my motivation for that also be selfless.

It is for your service that I want the higher taste. Probably we don’t celebrate Rathastami with that prominence that we celebrate Janmashtami. And many modern thinkers say that because of the male-dominated society, we put Krishna into the center and celebrate Janmashtami with more prominence than Krishna.

How should we handle that? What is the perspective on this? Well, Janmashtami is only one day. Durga Puja is nine days. Durga Puja is longer than Diwali also.

Krishna says that knowledge in the mode of ignorance is to make one thing into everything. Many people who are passionate about some cause, they reduce all of reality to that one cause only. Like somebody gets a hammer and they find with this hammer I can hit this nail.

Without it I was not able to hit it. The hammer works for hitting a nail. But then, once the hammer works for that, everything becomes a potential nail fall.

So, that is the problem with any theory which gets absolutized. So, feminism is a lens. And some things can be seen from the feminist lens.

But when that lens becomes the only way we see the world, then the vision becomes very distorted. Prabhuji, Radharani and Gopis are integral potency of Krishna. They are in Yoga Maya, but we are in Mahabaya.

How do we make it right, Prabhuji? They are integral potency. I am going to come to the Radhashtami class. That is the time when I am going to discuss about that whole thing.

The Gopis had not become proud, actually. There was a different emotion and dynamic that was going on. Let us discuss from that day.

Any of the Matajis have questions? My family had a question. They were saying that the new generation, when the phone is inseparable for them, and in his office, the phone is still banned. So, we want to ask, not for confidentiality.

So, does that really help? Does banning the phone help? Generally speaking, some amount of boundaries, some amount of regulation is required. Now, the exact degree… Krishna talks about boundaries several times in the Bhagavad Gita. The idea of… You withdraw your senses, 258.

Like a tortoise withdraws its legs, that is there. Or for that matter… He talks about 341. Students control the mind.

Boundaries. So, boundaries are required everywhere. Say, in any activity.

Say, male-female interactions. Now, if you consider, traditionally, the boundaries were more geographical. Males work in particular areas, females work in particular areas.

They are only to society benefit. So, now geographical boundaries may not be there. But now there is another boundary.

That is consent. That is considered an inviolable boundary. And if that is violated, it is considered a severe crime.

So, there always have to be boundaries. Now, the thing is, what is the exact boundary that will work for particular times? So, now, traditionally, if you consider, with respect to lust. Now, there could be tradition or social convention that could be a boundary.

That could be considered as a boundary. Actually speaking, the greatest boundary should be, the best, most sustainable boundary is purification. Love for Krishna.

Wanting to respect Him and serve Him. But the principle is, boundaries are required. Now, there is, within Mahabharata, there is an elaborate discussion on this topic.

That there are many things which may be immoral. But should everything immoral be made illegal? There are two different things. Immorality is a boundary.

Illegality is a boundary. Speaking lies is a bad thing. But should speaking lies be made a penalizable crime? If in a legal document it is there, if in a court while giving evidence it is there, it is true.

Speaking lies is a bad thing. But, imagine if the police had to catch and punish everybody who spoke a lie. How many police would we need? We would need police to police.

Those were police who were speaking a lie. So, everything immoral cannot be made illegal. For example, prohibition.

Where alcohol was banned. Now, it doesn’t work really very well. Because people just go and seek alcohol through underground means.

now does that mean that there should not be any banning of any things? Not necessarily. Say, drugs were banned. And to a large extent, that kept society safe.

Now, as drugs are becoming more and more in America, they are trying to legalize drugs. People have the argument that so much money is spent in persecuting people who are handling drugs. Instead, let us use that for rehabilitating drug users.

So, California, Arizona, many states are now on the radar, they have all made not just pot, but even more serious drugs they have made illegal. So, there is a big debate about that. The point is that we cannot make everything immoral into illegal.

So, banning something is like making it illegal. So, which boundary will work in which social context? That varies. So, I think rather than an absolutizing principle, it has to be fundamental.

Sometimes, some boundaries do help. Say, like it is said, out of sight is out of mind. That is one thing.

So, if you are fasting, have no food near you, then thought of food does not come. But then, convention also says that separation makes the heart grow fonder. When something is not available, you crave for it more and more.

So, which one will work? The mind is a peculiar thing. So, whether boundaries help or they don’t help, that has to be seen according to social context. So, with respect to phones specifically, now some people may try the experiment of banning phones and maybe in that context it works, some other places it may not work.

So, generally speaking, cultures itself, they can be more vertical, they can be more horizontal. So, vertical means that there is authority and there is subalternity. So, generally, eastern cultures are more vertical.

Western cultures are more horizontal. See, now the West is also coming to India also. Even in companies where you work, you call your boss by their first name.

But in some more traditional companies in India, say manufacturing, not software, other things, they will call you boss, vice-versa, whatever. So, this is just different ways of working. So, generally, something like banning, it will not work in cultures where it has become more and more horizontal.

It just absolutely won’t work. Maybe in cultures where it is more traditional, where authority is respected. Not just respected, authority is implicitly respected.

Then, banning can work. Now, the problem with banning, actually, this is in the Mahabharata and there are commentaries written by, not devotees, but secular scholars in the Mahabharata also, they say that whenever any rule is made, we should be thinking not just of what all good will come through the application of that rule. We also need to be thinking of what all bad can come through the misapplication of this rule.

So, for example, banning phones. That can be done to protect people from destruction. But, if tomorrow there is a dictator who comes to power, that dictator can use the banning of phones to keep people in existence.

To keep people fed with their own narrative. Isn’t it? So, many times, when bans are made, they may be made with good intent, but the potential for misuse is there. And the potential for misuse may actually outweigh the positive benefits that may come out.

So, ultimately, people have to be trained in self-restraint. That is the key thing. There is a prominent psychologist, Carl Jung.

He said the problem with technology is that technological growth infatuates us so much that it blinds us to the need for moral growth. What he means is that the more power we get externally, the more power we need internally, so that we can use that external power better. Otherwise, that external power can be abused.

So, the solution is to take away the external power from people. Phones are power enhancers. You can contact anyone, you can get any information.

Now, that power is being misused. But is taking away the power the solution? Maybe in a transitional phase, till the person develops inner power, that may be helpful. So, for example, banning phones for children, for teenagers up to a particular age, that is fair enough.

Even in the most liberal societies in the West, they acknowledge that, for example, certain things children should not be exposed to. For example, drinking alcohol may be legal, but children drinking alcohol is illegal. So, advertising is legal, but advertising targeted towards small children, that is illegal.

So, sexuality is very common, and sexual propaganda is very common, but sexual propaganda directed towards teens, for example, for children, the premature sexualization of children is considered bad, even in the West. So, the idea is that, if the rigid enforcement of outer boundaries helps a person to develop inner strength, that is good. But, if the outer boundaries are imposed, in three situations, they are imposed without even educating the intelligence why these boundaries are required, then they will backfire.

Very strongly backfire. People will lose their intelligence to find a way to break the boundaries. The other thing is, without the facility to develop inner strength, that is not just, okay, this is bad for you, and you should not do this, but how do I develop that? So, for example, if people are helped to develop more constructive engagements, where they themselves find a sense of meaning and value, then the facility has to be there, and then most importantly, inspiration has to be there.

Facility means practical means, what can I do? This is what I can achieve. So, then outer boundaries are helpful. But otherwise, arbitrarily imposing outer boundaries, it just doesn’t work.

In America, there is abortion, there was a big case, where there were two groups, the pro-life and the pro-choice. So, the Supreme Court decision was overturned, by which they said that it is not a constitutional right to abort. So, they said that we should have each, America is, India is a federal state, India is a federation, America is a confederation.

Federal means what? The center has power, and the center gives power to the states. Confederation means the state has power, and the state gives power to the center. So, any state in America, Texas, if it decides, it can secede from America.

So, no state in India can do that. The point is, they decided, let all states decide on their own. And some states rigidly imposed, those states were conservative, they rigidly imposed abortion.

They said that abortion, no case should be allowed, even if the woman has been raped, even if there is a risk to the woman’s life. And then that spectacularly backfired. Tragically backfired.

So, there is mass agitation against it, and now even those politicians who are supporting some kind of regulation on abortion, they also backfired a lot. So, generally top-down imposition of regulation just doesn’t work. The way it is portrayed is that if you are opposing abortion, then you are against women.

The logic is that when a woman becomes pregnant, she has to bear all the trouble of pregnancy. And often the man just goes away. So, their vision is that, if you are opposing that, now, at an ethical level, a serious case can be made.

That a child, it’s a person, how can you kill a person? That is true. But we can’t, ethics don’t operate in a vacuum. There is sociological consideration.

If a woman absolutely has no support system by which a child can be taken care of, even if there is no stigma for a woman to have a child, even if she is not married or whatever. But still, what happens eventually? The worst thing that can happen for a child is the child grows up feeling unwanted throughout life. I didn’t want this child, but I had to have this child.

It’s a terrible state to live from a child’s psychology. So, anyway, I am not supporting anything about licensing abortion, but I am saying that as an example, that imposing boundaries doesn’t work. Unless there is some bottom-up rising of consciousness.

So, with respect to force, certainly some regulation is required. But the top-down imposition of regulation will not work. There has to be bottom-up awareness, recognition of the need for the regulation.

And then by mutual discussion, the exact formula can be decided. So, thank you very much.